Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - Healthy Habits for Toddlers: Tackling Nutrition and Picky Eating with Dr. Mona

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

It feels like everyone we know has been sick this winter, leaving us constantly thinking about ways to strengthen our kids’ immune systems and nutrition. There’s nobody better suited to dive into this topic with than our friend, board certified Pediatrician and mom of two, Dr. Mona. We talked all about picky eaters, supporting your child’s nutrition and immune system, when to worry if your kids aren’t getting enough variety in their diet, immune system myths and more! Dr. Mona has been such an incredible resource for us through each stage of parenting and we’re so honored she’s on our podcast today! Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew Learn more about Dr. Mona ▶ https://pedsdoctalk.com/about/ Beam Kids is now available online at shopbeam.com/COUPLETHINGS. Take advantage of our early access price of up to 40% off using code COUPLETHINGS Follow our podcast Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/shawnandandrewpods/ Subscribe to our newsletter ▶ https://www.familymade.com/newsletter Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Shop My LTK Page ▶ https://www.shopltk.com/explore/shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en #ShawnAndAndrewPods #Nutrition #PickyEaters #BeamKids #Pediatrician Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Couple Things interviews. What's Sean and Andrew? Today we have Dr. Mona, one of the most amazing pediatricians who I've had the pleasure of doing events with multiple times. And I think I ask her more probably annoying questions than anything because I'm always like, Dr. Mona, what do I do with this? And she's the best.

I don't think you were annoying at all. Oh, thank you. If you've been around for a while, we have interviewed Dr. Mona before. Yes. She is phenomenal. we love talking to her and she's a practicing pediatrician so she sees real clients which i think goes a long way we talked about she has like 4,000 clients she used to she used to that's insane these pediatricians out here grinding grinding anyway she also creates really helpful content online

we'll link her information down below if you want to check that out but today we talk about kind of eating what's it like having a picky eater as a kid how do you navigate that nutrition i know there's so many like there's a million different things we could interview a pediatrician on and we'll have her back on to ask her more questions. But this one we wanted to really talk about, I feel like a parent's kind of frustration, which is how do you get your kid to eat? And how important is it to have like a fully nutritious diet?

It's so interesting to me because this is not a frustration of mine at all, but it is clearly a frustration of yours. Good. Clearly a frustration of yours. And we've heard from many of you that is a frustration of yours as well. So anyway, I enjoyed this conversation. So did I. I learned a lot.

And hope you enjoy it as well. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to the show and give it a rating. And I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Mona. Dr. Mona, good to see you again. How are you today? I am good. Nice to see you all again. Happy to be back.

Great to see you. I want to start with a question that I noticed your resume says you studied psychobiology at UCLA. And I was thinking about what is psychobiology and how is it different than neuroscience? it feels like maybe there's some overlap, but would you mind explaining that to us? Oh, I love it. Yes. And so psychobiology is the best major. Okay, so it is basically the psychology and biology combined, right? So I would say for anyone who's not familiar, it's the biology of how our brain works and how it makes decisions, whether it's from social interactions, depression, anxiety. So the difference between that and neuroscience,

neuroscience is more of a chemical basis thing. We're looking more not only at the chemical, but very heavily on the social stuff, you know, like not only what's happening in the brain, but also just how people communicate, tone, things like that. So a lot of my post, my undergraduate work was obviously in the basic sciences. And then the upper division work was more in the psychobiome. And it was just a very enjoyable specialty and major to kind of really dive into psychology more, but really understand the why is behind people think the way they do. Obviously, I could have done a whole career of that as a psychiatrist and psychologist, but it started my interest into the curiosity of the mind, if you will.

How does that overlap with being a pediatrician? Because I'm sure you deal with like the psychology of parents, but also the developmental side of kids from an early age. I think knowing psychology to me is a useful thing for anybody, right? because if you can understand why people think the way they do or why they may be bringing in certain insecurities or bringing in certain situations into the present, it can really help you relate to them a lot more. So for me, as a pediatrician, when it comes to children and why they may be refusing the potty, why they may be refusing to eat, which we can talk about, I bring in a lot of

psychology tips, you know, things that I've learned, but also just from being a mom myself, not to manipulate, but also just to understand, well, what is going on here? They are trying to get control. That is a developmental thing as well. But what can I do to sort of meet their desire for developmental control, but also, you know, be the boundary setter and whatnot? So it's really helped me with my children, but also with the parents, like you said, you know, why are they feeling this way? Why may they be insecure that their child is not gaining weight or their child is not eating. Are they worried about something deeper than what is on the surface? So when you get curious about that, and I don't think you have to be a psychology major or a psychobiomager to do that,

I think it can really help you connect and see better results because you're really getting into the deeper levels of the why versus the superficial. Well, yeah, just present them food and let's see what they do, you know? And so that's kind of how I have seen it work in my profession and also as a mom. kind of a left field question, but I'm curious since the last time we talked, you said your husband is an ER doctor. Yes. Yes. Do you guys ever butt heads in the medical world?

We do butt heads, especially around the children sometimes. Yeah. Meaning, and it's very interesting because there's certain things that he will be more concerned about and I will be less and then vice versa. And it really just depends on what it is. And, you know, it'll be, I will find that he more times. times and not is the one that's more concerned about things because he doesn't understand children as much as I do. But then there was parts in my postpartum journey where I had really bad anxiety.

So then my anxiety was in the driver's seat, fixating about things. And he's like, hey, this isn't really an issue. Like, look at your baby. Like, she's, look at the baby. She's completely fine. And I'm like, you don't understand. She's not gaining weight. Like, this is a problem. And she's like, and he's like, I think we're okay. So I think it's a blessing that we've never. both had the same panic at the same time. Yeah. Like that hasn't happened yet. Knock on wood.

It's been like a very good symbiotic like, okay, you're worried I'm not or I'm worried you're not and we can talk each other down or we're equally concerned and we will meet it together. He definitely has different philosophies on parenting. He wants more of a firmer hand on many things. That's not really medical, but you know, like more like not harsh discipline, but not as much of the leeway of like the gentle parenting, but I'm also not a very, very gentle parent in the sense that there are very strict boundaries. Sometimes my tone is more strict than

a gentle parent would probably say their tone is. But he's sometimes like, no, we got to do something different. But we always find the solution that works for our family and our children. Jumping back to what you mentioned about studying psychology and you're not trying to manipulate as more as much as almost build an awareness. And I, I think, so I'm studying psychology right now. I went back to school to get a PhD. Amazing. I love it. Yeah, it's been a blast.

But Sean will, she'll be like, are you using your stuff on me right now? She's joking. She's joking. But that is kind of like, I think a natural question after someone says they study psychology. I think our goal with conversation like this or with really almost like any learning is it's not so you can have an upper hand with somebody as much as it is to. build an awareness and to kind of expand your toolkit so that when you do have an interaction, whether it be with your kid, your wife, or anyone else for that matter, it's like, okay, I'm able to remove myself from my instantaneous reaction, what I might be inclined to impulsively

react by and have like a different type of awareness. So anyway, I liked, I liked your take on that. But you speak a lot about nutrition. And I've noticed this is somewhat of a soft spot with Sean. with our kids and their nutrition. I think she cares so much that that's one of those things that she has. Go ahead. Well, and very openly, I have shared with the world. So this is not like shocking news.

Like I struggled with eating disorders. I struggled with having any understanding over nutrition. And we were also raised in a generation where, as you are aware, everything was so centered around a goal or an outcome of like losing weight or you worked out to look a certain way. and I think coming off that generation, I'm just so hyper aware of, like, I want my kids to actually have an education around it and an awareness so they can make smart decisions.

I'm curious what your approach to this topic is with your children. I think one of the biggest things is that there's a conversation about, are they getting enough nutrients and are we creating a intuitive eater that respects food and respects their body? I think those are two different things, but obviously very much connected, which is why I think respects food and respects their bodies that we said. Yeah, respects food, respects bodies, right? Because when you talk about the unhealthy relationship and eating disorders, that is an unhealthy relationship with food and an unhealthy relationship with body.

And what does that mean? So I'd like to talk about that first. That means you look at food as nutritious. You look at food as something that can be pleasurable, that that's okay, that we look at food as enjoyable, right? Because when we start to say that you can't eat certain things and you can't have you know, certain, obviously, like a sugar or a cookie. We create this sort of mentality that these foods are off limits, that if I do indulge in this because it's something enjoyable as a

family, that that is a bad thing, then you can create binge eating disorders or restrictive eating disorders. So when we talk about a healthy relationship with food, I love my body. I know my body is capable. I know that how little or how much I eat is not going to really impact my strength and my body's capability, but that I also know when my body is full and when it's hungry. You know, that's part of this too. So that if I'm not restricting myself because I'm trying to meet a certain weight goal, or I'm not going to overeat because I'm being told I'm too thin, which is what I've seen in both spectrums when we talk about body image. So it's why I think both are connected. And then from the nutrient standpoint, obviously if you're not getting enough

in or if you're getting a little too much of some food group, you can start to worry about the nutrients and, you know, is my child getting enough X, Y, and Z, you know, iron, fiber, vitamin D and really fall into that sort of, you know, rabbit hole of like overfixating them on, are they getting the right stuff? You know, you asked me about my approach. I take a very big picture approach with a lot of things in pediatrics and parenting. So when I think about nutrients, you know, I think about, okay, I'm not sitting there calculating. Is my kid getting the daily dose of iron? Is my kid getting the daily dose of vitamin D? I look at, am I exposing them to these things? Am I incorporating things? Like I know you created a product like Beam, right? Like Beam super, like Beam for kids.

Like am I incorporating these things that can add as a big picture? So I'm not looking meal by meal. I'm looking week by week, right? So if you start to look at a single meal, like my daughter had fruit for dinner the other day. That's it. She doesn't want anything else. She said fruit and then, oh, it's a little bit of cheese. I'm not panic because that's not what she does every day. That was just one day, maybe two days of the week that she just really didn't want to eat anything else. And she said, cheese, cheese. And I'm like, you know what? Have the freaking cheese. Like, I really don't mind because she really wanted cheese that day. And so I know when I look at all the things that I'm giving, it's over a week. And then I also look at, you know,

keeping the meals low pressure. The more pressure we add to eat or don't. eat, the more the child starts to think, well, well, now I can't eat this and now, you know, I'm eating too much and what the heck am I supposed to do? I'm still hungry or I'm not hungry. Then we're not allowing them to listen to their cues. And we do have those cues. Those cues are a part of us, but they get lost. And I blame childhood for that when we get a lot of pressure to either finish the plate or a lot of pressure to not eat because we are a certain weight. And that's why the body image, relationship with self and body and food, and all of this goes hand in hand.

Okay. I don't know if you have an answer for this. If you do, this will be the greatest answer I'll ever hear in my life. But dealing with toddlers, I've even posted about this and had so many people respond and be like, I don't know the answer here.

But toddlers, we are stuck in a vicious cycle with one of our kids who, I feel like we've done a good job in the sense of like, eat when you're hungry, eat what you can, I'll present good options. But when a toddler learns about a snack, man, getting out of the snack cycle is hard. So when you have a kid who's refusing food because they know if I don't eat this dinner within an hour or two, I'm going to be hungry and my mommy and daddy is going to give me a snack.

How do we get out of it? So my question is, is it the same snack or just snacks in general? Like is it the same snack? No, it's the same snack. What is it? She wants like a Z bar. Like a kids bar. Okay.

So you have to remember that that is a preferred food for her. That is something that she likes. Every child and every adult, like think about the things that you love in your life that is, you know, food related. We got to we got a demystiff. We got to basically bring that down where it's not this coveted snack time food alone. So my advice is instead of offering it as a snack, you are going to pair it with the food. And you've probably heard this before. Well, Dr. Mona, she's going to eat that and not eat anything else because that's a reality.

So when she does that, because you're now giving it with the meal, it's going to take many times of exposing it, right, with other foods. And if she's like, Mommy, I want another Z bar. So guess what? This is what we're having for dinner. You can try other things on your plate. And if you're still hungry, after eating what's on your plate, we can maybe talk about having another Z bar. But first, I want you to try to see if you want anything else. she picks at it she looks at the chicken she looks at the veggies and she's kind of like i don't i'm not

hungry okay you're not hungry you had your z bar wonderful you thought about the chicken the next time we're eating is going to be breakfast well mommy i want a z bar later so we can't have a z bar we can have a banana so because what i don't want it to be is that we're deprived like just say she truly is hungry two hours after and you know she loves the z bar we got to remove the z bar from that snack equation when she actually wants it and put it with the meal so that it becomes this sort of exposure that she is getting it, but we're not making it this pedestal thing. Because if she refuses dinner and now we give it after, she knows the routine. Like my son did the same thing with, he likes sweets.

My daughter doesn't. It's so interesting. Like he loves cupcakes and cookies. And what he was doing was that he would, when he knows that there's a cupcake coming, he would not eat his meal to save space for the cupcake. And I said, sweetie, I know what you're doing. And how old is the child? How old is the child that's doing this?

Five. Okay, five. Well, it was more so when she was like four. Okay, but I mean, they're very smart. My son is five. You know that. So he would do this where he'd be like, and he would just take two bites of his dinner because he knew that after dinner he would get that.

And I'm like, sweetie, I know you're still hungry because you're going to have space for the cupcake. The cupcake is coming. I promise you that I am not going to not give you the cupcake. It's coming. But you finish your belly. You finish what you want to eat. You fill your belly with what you think is full.

And then I will give you the cupcake. And we did that. And then I would give him the cupcake. But then I switched it to the, let me give it to you with the meal. And he ate the cupcake first. And then he asked for me for more cupcake. And I said, well, we can't have more cupcake right now because we were going to have just one cupcake today. But if you're still hungry, finish what's on your plate.

And lo and behold, he picked at it. Da-da-da-da-da. And guess what I did? I surprised him. with another cupcake not because he ate it and I didn't give him a warning of like well you finish this I'm going to give it to you I noticed that he finished and I said you know what sweetie I'm really hungry too I think I'm going to have a cupcake would you like to split this with me and he's like mommy another cupcake and I'm like you know it's because I want the cupcake right now and I think I want to

share it with you so then I didn't turn it on this reward system I again using psychology a little bit I made it seem like you know what he ate he I didn't have to bribe him I didn't have to do anything and I wanted the cupcake. And so I, rather than being greedy and eating it all myself, I said, not a reward. I said, hey, I was enjoying it. I know you really like cupcakes. And I'm going to give it. I'm going to let you have some cupcake too.

And same thing with the Z bar. Surprise her with the Z bar when she doesn't even ask for it when it's a time when she may least expect it. So just say it's breakfast and she never gets a Z bar. Pair the Z bar, you doing it. And say, sweetie, I know you really like Z bars. So today, we're going to get to have a Z bar. Mommy, wow.

Yeah, you can have a Z bar today. And then it's going to take it off of that sort of obsession when it's only snack time or right before dinner. But if you're going to give some, sorry, right before bedtime, but before the bedtime, try to keep it to something really boring, like maybe some peanut butter with crackers or like a banana. Don't let the preferred snack be the before bedtime snack because they will hold out. Kids are smart using their brain and development.

They're not stupid. Like, I don't think we give kids enough credit that she will hold out or she will say, well, no, I'm not hungry. And then she will be that, you know, we call it the second stomach that all of a sudden appears for snacks. So make sure you kind of do those strategies. And I think you're going to see when you start to take it off of the pedestal and surprise her more with it when she least expects it, she's going to start to remember, like, I get

this. Like, I'm allowed this thing versus you can't have it, no more. You ate 10 Z bars. No. And then share it with her. Like, say, I actually really. enjoy Z bars too. And we're going to have it as a snack today. And then for dinner, we're going to have chicken or whatever it is, you know, rice. And then maybe we can have the Z bar tomorrow

together. Would that be something you want to do together? So put it in the sort of plan. And my last advice for this is follow through. Do not say, well, I didn't say that if you said it, because they are smart. They're going to know when you lie to them. And that is about also building trust. Because when I tell my son, he can't have cookies right now, I say, you know what? I can put cookies in your lunchbox tomorrow. How many would you like? So then it takes the, they're feeling like they have some sense of control versus like you're telling them what to do all the time.

I want to have dinner with the Dr. Mona family. I know. I know. I always say, my husband's like, why don't, like me and my husband talk about this a lot because my kids are great sleepers and they're great eaters. But that doesn't mean that they always were. Okay. Like that's, and he, we went through the same things every parent goes through.

We went through the food refusal. We went through the throw. We went through the, I don't want this, mommy. I'm not, and then running around the table. It's really about how we're approaching those moments to get them back on track, right? Because every child is going to go through a selective eating phase. But if we start to cater to that selective eating, which means we start not exposing them to things, we say, okay, just eat this food all day, every day.

That is when the picky eating starts to set in. Obviously, this is very different than the rare, rare form of like true selective eating. which is like, you know, gagging, choking, sensory. That is like sensory, speech therapist, swallowing studies. But then this, a lot of what we're talking about, majority of picky eating is control and it's psychology and its parental boundaries combined, right? Like we're not going to be so restrictive, but we got to understand when is it okay to give them a little bit more and surprise them versus saying no, no, no.

And how can I now in this situation work with their psychology, like we talked about, Andrew, and say, they're playing me right now. And people don't like to hear that. Like when parenting people, experts talk about playing, they are. I don't care what anyone says. They are very smart. It's not manipulation. It's they are, they know patterns and they know, well, mommy gets really mad when I say this.

So let me just say this and see what happens. And if you get mad, they've now confirmed their belief system. So it's very, very, very smart. Your speech there about food and the cupcakes and the way you delivered that was like so. Oh, calm, cool, collected, and suave. Did you ever just lose your cool, though? Like, how do you not get to that point? I mean, I have lost my cool.

Like, when I lose my cool, it's when it's the repetitive things. And also, remember, a lot of our losing cool is if we've had other events that have brought us into that moment that are very stressful. And I say that because if I had the best day, I got a nap, I ate three, like my two meals, I got me time. If my son is very reactive, I'm going to be, I'm going to have more space to handle it. But if I'm handling meeting after meeting, dealing with patients yelling in my face, I didn't get to exercise, I didn't drink water. When he starts to do that, I'm going to be like, shut up.

Like, what are you doing? And it's very real. And the most important thing is if you are married and are lucky to have a partner, you have to tap out if you guys are both together. So there has been times when I just want to yell and I just want to scream and I have. And I have to tell my husband, I need to tap out. I need you to handle this because I don't have the mental capacity right now to deal with. this rise that my child's trying to bring out of me. And the moments I've been alone, because that has happened many times, I have taken a break and I have said, you know what, Ryan, I'm going to go,

I'm going to be right back. And I go to the bathroom and he's screaming. He's having his meltdown. I just go to the bathroom, but just to step away. And I come back and I just take the moment. I'll be like, you're upset. And we get through it. We go through all the feelings, all that. but the moments I have yelled, which I have yelled more times than I think people would probably feel, but that is human nature. Like, if you're not yelling as a parent, there is some, you are probably getting a Xanax strip. Like, I mean, completely, like, good for you. But, like, there has to be something that triggers you.

I mean, that is being apparent and having this work, right? And so when it does happen, and I have yelled most recently, I would say a week ago, where I yelled, I'm like, Ryan, you need to stop. talking like because usually my older child who goes talking nonstop I'm like you are very loud and I cannot hear myself think and then he said something he's like mommy it must be really hard to be a mommy and I said what do you what do you mean he's like because whenever I'm yelling or talking you get really mad and sad and it really got me thinking about that and so I use that as a sort of like impetus to be better about the yelling but also understand that I'm human right because I'm going

to yell. But when my son said that to me, I was like, well, damn. Like, I don't want him to think that momming is a hard thing. Like, it is hard, but I don't want my son to feel that he's a burden ever. Like, he's not the burden. I tell him, I'm like, I didn't yell because of you. I yelled because mommy was, is learning how to handle her being upset. And that's something you're learning to. And we're going to do that together. And that shows him. And then the next time I'm upset, I'm able to really like have accountability and bring myself, like, around to it sooner to catch myself. And because I know the accountability is there, especially when your five-year-old child has an insight into saying, well, you don't seem to be happy when you talk like that. I'm like, you're right. I don't

want to be like that. Like, that's not fun for anyone. And when he says that to me, it really opens my eyes. And I will still probably yell, probably will happen again. But it really brings me back down to reality of like, what is the kind of value I want to bring in my kid? And if I yell, I'm going to repair. So the day that I yelled at him and I actually, I'll be quite transparent, I yelled and I pulled his arm at the shoulder because he wasn't coming to bed. And I was like, I can't do this. I'm like, come. And I pulled him.

Obviously, I didn't hurt him. And he cried. And I literally apologized. And then when he went to bed and it's 10 minutes later, I went back into his room and I laid in his bed. And I said, listen, I am so sorry for what happened. That is, I should not have done that. I should not have yelled and pulled your arm. That is not something mommy should have ever done.

And he's like, mommy, it's okay. And I'm like, no, sweetie. I shouldn't have done that. And he now sees a mother who took accountability, and I also now realize, what did I do? What brought me to that point? Why did I yell and feel like I needed to pull his arm? Was it that I was feeling disrespected? Was it that I was feeling burnt out by the day? But how can I make it that I don't let that point happen again? And then the second thing that really helped is telling my husband what happened, because he wasn't there. But being honest with my husband and saying, hey, look, I yelled at him and I pulled his arm. Because that holds accountability for all the people I love in my life to really say, okay, you're human, but what can we do to make sure that that doesn't happen again or that you don't get to the point where you are yelling and pulling him to come to bed? Because they will test every moment of your freaking patience. And it's so hard. And I, I'm thank you for asking me. And I'm happy to share that story so that people know that this person who shares all this advice is human too. I mean, I have been there

and I feel horrible, but I also know that I'm human and that I'm not going to keep making excuses but I'm going to get better at being better at managing my emotions. Truly, thank you for sharing it because even as a mom, I'm like, oh, okay, a pediatrician does it too. But I had one of those moments yesterday where I literally lost my cool and I was like, stop, I know.

And I was like walking back from the park with my daughter and our son and I had the same conversation with my daughter. I was like, I'm really sorry. Like, Mommy is still learning. Yes. And she, my daughter ended up going on having like a conversation with me. And she's like, you know what?

My teacher teaches me that when we get angry, we put in, she was like telling me like coping mechanisms pretty much. And I was like, oh, baby, thank you. If you see mommy getting mad, will you actually help remind me? Like, that'd be great. And I was like, it was really sweet. Isn't that the beautiful thing about being a parent? Like when you see them have the emotional insight at that age and emotional awareness, which again, they are still learning too. So when they have those meltdowns, I have to give my son a little bit of

grace that he doesn't have the frontal cortex to understand how to handle. And that even I and you, grown women and parents, we will also struggle with losing our cool because it's not impossible. I mean, I have gotten better, but it used to be even worse before I even had children with my dog. Like I would get so frustrated and yelling. And I'm like, who am I? Like, I don't want to be this person because yelling doesn't make anyone feel good. But in the end, it doesn't make me feel good. feel good. And I don't want to be angry. And that work is so beautiful. And you just did the most amazing thing by raising a child who notices what you're feeling and helping you while you also help her. I mean, that is a beautiful thing about being a parent. And when you get that insight is

when you really make the biggest difference. It's interesting. You know, the, the process of apologizing to a child is humbling. I think one thing that Sean and I both struggle, with is that tap out like when when you're overwhelmed and by the way you kind of just changed my perspective when you said parenting is hard but the child's not the burden I've heard people say some iterations of that but the way you phrase that it's really interesting it's almost like it's almost like the the hard part about parenting is like the balance of it all it's not the child I don't know I I'm still working through that but thank you for sharing that but I think Sean and I both struggle with tapping out because it feels like I am not able to deal with this

and I should be able to and so thus I'm a failure and I think what I just realized hearing you talk is like yelling at your child is not a great solution or whatever your your outlet for not being able to emotionally deal with the situation as a parent and probably tapping out is not an ideal solution like I think Sean and I both like to engage and kind of like lean in through the hard moments but it's probably the lesser of two evils to to leave the room and and like not yell or again whatever that thing is so um oh course I just learned a lot these situations are going to happen so in the moment right like no parenting book is going to tell you okay pause let's take a let's take a pause in this moment here's what to do it's like such in the moment situations where you're

going to make a choice with yourself or your partner, which hopefully will be for the better of everyone, you know? And like the tapping out, I would say happens maybe twice in the last, you know, four, two, three years that I've had to. My husband never, my husband has maybe had to once, but I noticed it before. And I said, hey, you're getting reactive. You want to just go upstairs. And he does the same thing for me. Like, like when we notice the rise coming before the yelling even starts. But that's because we've been married for such a long time. And we know each other's, the way our children push our buttons. Like, we know. know what buttons, you know, the number three on the elevator button is getting pushed

right now. So, but it's, it's such an in the moment thing. That is, it's not always going to be so easy. And like you said, the repair to me is huge. And the accountability to want to change is the other part. Um, I wanted to go back a little bit. You mentioned that I think you were explaining if you've had a hard day with like meetings and you said parents yelling at you in the office. First, I'd like to say, sorry. That should never happen. But it brings me to the conversation. So many people have actually, like, DM'd us and asked advice on finding a pediatrician, but I think furthering that, I'd like to ask you, what are like three simple things that you would recommend parents do in a pediatrician's office to help either get their point across or their

concern or their fear, but mutually, like, be able to respect one another. I love this. So the first thing is how to find a pediatrician. My favorite is word of mouth because you, you know, it's like when it's a person giving you this sort of really meaningful experience, if you have a friend that is, you know, someone you trust and you're like, hey, I love my pediatrician, that is going to be the best way. Now, if you don't have anyone because you have, you're the first in your friend group to have a child, asking your OBB or going online and just doing a a search. I've always mentioned reviews online are not great to look at because people tend to want to go online and complain about a doctor when no one's going to go online to sing praises. They

usually go online to vent, right? That's usually what people do on online reviews for medical facilities. I mean, we know this. So you got to go by word of mouth. You got to experience the doctor yourself using those few things. Now, the things that you can prepare, one of the biggest things I always tell all my patients is always come with your questions written down. I mean, so just so you see me at the four month and then now you're coming at the six month. In that time frame, if you have something that you want to talk about, put it on your phone so that we can just go through things in the visit, whatever it is. Usually I end up talking about most of it before they even get to the question and they're like, oh, done, done, done.

That will really help with the time that you get because we all know that we don't get a lot of time with the pediatrician in the modern health care system model. I hope we can change that. It's not enough. I could have an hour with every one of my patients and it be completely valuable and I get maybe 15, 20 minutes allotted because someone's always waiting. And it's unfortunate reality. Respecting that and understanding that your pediatrician is a great doctor, but it's probably in a system that doesn't support them. And I say that as someone who works for a big practice, a lot of your doctors are probably very burnt out, even if they are smiling because they're pediatricians. Like, I am very happy because I'm a pediatrician and how can you not be happy

when you see children all day that are like joyful and smiling and little babies? Oh my gosh. But at the end of the day, we are burnt out. I mean, I don't know a single one of my colleagues in a practice that's owned by someone else that's not them, like meaning like a, you know, that is not burnt out. And so respecting that, saying thank you. You don't need to give us gifts, but just saying thank you for your time. I mean, that simple thank you for your time at the end, oh, you're welcome. Like, oh my gosh, do you want a hug?

Like, thank you. Like, I'm like, wow, you're so welcome. Or, hey, I noticed that you're really busy today. Thank you for, I'm so happy that you're here now. Oh my God, yeah, I am busy, but I'm so happy to be here too because we're not trying to delay anybody. I can tell you that no one is sitting in the back like, twilling their thumbs.

If we're going into the back, it's because we need water or we need to pee or we need to just take a moment to be able to decompress. but it's not that we're wasting anybody's time by dilly-dalling. Like, we are trying to move through. And so I think knowing that and having gratitude and having your questions and saying, hey, are there any other resources? If we didn't have time to talk about this, where can I go to look this up, like a trusted resource, you know, understanding that sometimes they may not have time to talk about seven

different topics, and then they can hopefully give your resources like myself, just kidding, you know, to give, you know? And so that way it feels a little bit more supportive rather than just like you've got to get out of here and it doesn't feel, you know, that it was a useful thing at all. Because I do believe my visits are useful. And I do believe, though, that I could also have three times as much time with all my families. But I don't. And it kills me every day. Like when I go into work, I'm like, I could have just, I could have, I don't need to send you anywhere. Like, I can talk to you about this stuff, but I don't have the time. And I, it's an unfortunate reality.

Yeah. You do have a lot of wonderful resources. Yeah. Thank you. And that's why I created this because I was feeling burned out and I'm like, I need to have an extension of the work that I do in my office. So it's kind of the reason why I started Peds Dock Talk in the first place. How many patients are you in charge of? So I've reduced my schedule very significantly since I started expanding Peds Dock Talk. So Peds Doctaw is obviously the podcast, the YouTube social, which as you all know takes on, it's pretty much a full-time job, right? Being a content creator. So now I see patients just one day a week. And I'll see, and it's in the morning, that I'm seeing them. So it's about 25 patients that I'll see in a morning. And so when you think

about that, 25, but I'm not seeing the same patients every week. So I have about 1,000 to 2,000 patients in my, that rotate through me. And I used to have more because I used to work full time, but they've gotten lower because I only have one morning available. But yeah, about 1,000 to 2,000, I would say that really see me on a regular basis, rotate through every week. It's a new week of patients and sometimes back-to-back visits. But I've created, I've seen them from birth till seven, eight years old because I've been practicing at this practice for that long. And it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. Wait, so if I'm doing the math right, if you're working one of five normal working days and you see a thousand patients, the normal pediatrician might

see somewhere in like the four or five thousand. Yes, because they're seeing about 45 patients a day. What? 45 patients a day. So you could go even three to four times what I'm seeing. Oh, my gosh. I was thinking like 100. No, no. I would say, like, yeah. I would be most concerned about me in my family. We see a lot of families.

I mean, when I was working full time, I would say, yeah, upwards of 3,000 because you think about like how many people, again, because it's not everyone's coming that same, right? It's like you have your patient load is like this. And so that is a lot. And I mean, a lot of the way medicine is going is people are trying to obviously, like, concierge practices where you start to be restricted. that. I love it, but the only thing I feel it's holding me back is that I don't get to see my

Medicaid patients. I don't get to see the underserved families that can't afford concierge. But maybe I'll create one that has some sort of setup where I could do that. But like, it is the reason why I don't blame any of my colleagues for doing that is that you get more time. You get more ability to have that, which when you have 2,000, 3,000 names, I forget names. And it's not because I don't care, but I will never forget a face. All my families know that I will never forget their face, but sometimes I have to look at the name and be like, oh, yeah, because I can't remember so many names, but I know all my patients by face, like, because I'm just, I'm good at that. But yeah, it's a lot of patience that we see. And

this depends on how many patients you're seeing in the day, but many practices are anywhere from 20 to 45 patients a day. That's a huge range. And I was seeing 45 patients a day before I left to do what I was doing because I was burnt out. I mean, how can you see that? How can you see that and feel like you're doing a great job? It's like impossible. Yeah. that's wild and even if i did i was running late because i would give them all my all and then it would be running late and i would be there till six six 30 and i'm like i can't do this to myself anymore like i'm burning out but i want to be able to provide something of value to my patients so it's a hard balance that i think so many pediatricians struggle with and you can ask your your pediatrician

may have less just depends on where they work but if they work for like a corporate medicine practice which is run by you know wall street basically like investors they're going to a lot more because it's business. They care more about bottom line than it is about patients, which is a huge sadness of medical system right now. I am curious. We want to talk about nutrition, picky eaters, immune system. But you mentioned Beam Kids, Sean's supplement. The feedback we've gotten has been amazing. There's been a lot of parents that are like, my kids hate all foods, but they'll drink this. So thank you. What is your take on supplements as a whole? When is the right time to introduce them. I think it's a great question. And, you know, you, I was so excited

when I saw that you were launching something like this one, because as a mother and obviously as an athlete, I know you both are, but like, you know, I understand how important the nutrition supplement world is. One thing I always want to be clear is that most kids don't need supplements. It's not like your doctor should say, you need a prescription for something, but it is something that can be part of a daily routine. And so what I say with that is especially something like this. It's coming in like a nutrition liquid, like, you know, like a chocolate milk flavor drink. I kind of describe it as my protein shake every day. Like, you know, every day, like I don't, I eat meals, but I also have a protein shake, right? That's part of my routine. And so I think

it's nice as a tool, but not a replacement for meals, right? So what I would not want is people using supplements thinking, like not your supplement, but just supplements in general, like pills or, you know, thinking that it's going to be either a meal booster, a lot of parents have the misconception that can I give my kid something so that they eat? I'm like, no, there's no supplement that's going to make your kid eat. That's not, it's a huge misconception I get. The number two thing is I don't want us to not do the things like we'll probably go over on encouraging food and variety and then rely on this as a meal replacement every time. So what I would love with like being kid super powder is that we pair it with their breakfast

or we pair it as their morning snack or it's their afternoon snack. It's not that they their breakfast or refused their lunch or refused their dinner and they got being super kids, you know, I wanted to be that they, it was part of a routine and they get to look forward to it, like how I look forward to my protein shake after a workout, they can look forward to their, you know, their super powder drink and say, hey, this is something that I love to drink. It's part of my daily routine. And so that's how I kind of envision your product in the market. And I think that's how you do too. But I don't want it to be that we ever replace a meal and say, well, fine, drink this because it's good for you. Obviously, it has really great nutrients,

but are we encouraging the variety and the exposure to foods as well? It's so vital for me if any family is introducing some sort of supplement, powder, anything like that. Because it is an additional adjunct. And I think it's wonderful. And it's good tasting. And it has, I mean, I looked at your guys' the ingredient profile and obviously the vitamins and all the stuff, you know, all it listed. It does seem like a very well-balanced, you know, supplement, which I think is wonderful but adding it as part of a routine and not a well you didn't do this so let me just give you that is so important that's something we're hoping to really reiterate to people is this isn't a replacement for broccoli yes or teaching your kids how important how important that is

I had a hard time with a couple of other supplements where they were saying this is four servings of vegetables today and it's like well you should still teach your kids to eat vegetables but the protein shake you're talking about it's funny that's actually why we started it we have our protein shakes every single day and our kids were starting to beg for it so funny oh my gosh my son too yeah yeah they really want and we would give ourselves like our kids I hate even to say this like kachava and then learned very quickly like oh they probably shouldn't have that um and so we we wanted for a long time we were kind of creating their own whether we were giving them chocolate milk

or some sort of like something and then we're like, why can't they just have their own? Very cool origin story. That is just part of the routine. Oh, I love because that's literally like, I have this amazing protein shake that I love, I mean, taste delicious, okay?

I mean, I'm like, I want to overdose on this stuff. It's so good. And it's double chocolate milk flavor. And yeah, my son is, and I let him try my protein shake, but of course, you know, the nutrient profile for children. I'm like, eh, this is for adults, like the bread. Yeah. But that's the same thing.

So now I have to get it still. I don't have the... We'll send it to you. Yes, I know. We talked about that. But I'm now going to let my son have it when I have my protein shake. When like it's usually in the morning like as a morning snack, which I think is wonderful. Yeah.

We kept talking though. We were going down this whole like picky eaters. And we have been fortunate enough to not truly have like a super picky eater yet, which I'm thankful for. Our oldest is kind of getting into a little bit of a control mindset. that, like, she wants her stuff and she wants it. But when it comes to picky eaters, like, out of the gate, are there tried and true practices for expanding their palettes and getting them to eat more?

Because I even know, I will sometimes beg my five-year-old. I'll be like, just take a bite. Like, one bite. You don't have to eat anymore. Just one bite. And without fail, the psychology behind it. Yes. She'll use her control and be like, I don't like it.

And I'm like, I know you like it. Like, I know your palate well enough. I know this is something you like. You're just telling me you don't like it. Sean, I get so frustrated at it. When Drew does try something, Sean will, like, notice it out of the corner of eye, and then she'll, like, tug on my shirt.

And she's like, hey, Andrew, look. But don't look her in the eye. Don't look at Drew in the eye. Otherwise, you're going to distract it. It's like, yeah, you're like, your eyes get wide. You're like, finally, yeah, this is so funny. You know, you're asking about tried and true ways.

The first thing that I was going to talk about was don't pressure them to eat. So it's funny that you said that. Okay, listen. Just eat it. Yes. So here, and I'll try to bridge in a little bit of child development and child psychology because I think it's really important. So if you and Andrew were eating, right? And Andrew was, you guys were eating at dinner. And Andrew turned to you and was like, Sean, eat this. And you're like, I don't want to eat it. Sean, just open your mouth and eat it. Eat it. Like, why aren't you eating? You wouldn't like that. Like, I don't think any adult even wants to be forced to do something, especially putting food in their mouth that they don't want to eat.

God, Shotton, like, Andrew, I don't want to eat that. Like, I'll eat it if I'm hungry or I don't like the taste. So now put that into your child's shoes that if we're trying to force them to do anything, and I have a motto that we cannot force anything into their mouth or out of their butt, meaning if we're trying to teach potty training, you can't force them to do, you can't force them on the toilet, just like you can't force anything into their mouth, right? Like you can't. So some things that you've got to think about knowing the five-year-old brain is you know that she likes control.

okay so you're going to play some some games with her meaning your games i mean like you're not going to manipulate but you're going to okay you know that she likes to control okay so here's what we're eating right now do you want to add anything to it would you like to add some ketchup salt and pepper is there anything like making sure that this is what she knows it's happening but does she want to add like any condiment right that's something that you can do do you want to move it to a different plate like do you want to eat in a big boy plate because my son was not eating and the moment i let him say that you know what i think what we're going to do today is big kids get to use big boy plates, like the plates that me and my husband use.

So I think that if you're going to eat this, I think maybe we can start using big boy plates. Oh, mommy, I want to use a big boy plate. Okay, well, you got to eat big boy food then. Like, that's what we only get to do that if we're eating big boy food. He freaking gobbled up that shrimp dinner that my husband made because he was so excited that he was a big boy now and that he gets to use the big boy plate. And now it's really turned around because he was going through all this sort of, I don't want to do it.

And I'm like, but what if we change it up? And you see how my, my demeanor is very like, ooh, like, what if we do this? Like, make it seem like you are making up this cool thing for her. Like, oh. It's like an exclusive club. Yes, the exclusive club that you get to do this. And oh my gosh, Daddy, Andrew, do you get to see that Drew gets to now? Oh, my gosh, Drew.

Like, I can't believe that you're a big girl now. Like, you're building up this amazing thing that's happening of like, look at you. Wow, like you did a big girl thing. I think that's a huge way of psychology. When they were younger, I did a little bit of like, I don't think you're going to want to eat that. Like a little bit of reverse psychology. I don't like leaning too much on reverse psychology because it can backfire.

And so I like to build up a little bit more of like what you think she might want. Or, hey, do you want to pick a plate or do you want to choose, you don't want to, like, even before the meal is prepped or set, hey, why don't you pick what plate you want today? Do you want to use this fork or this fork? You're giving them a little bit of control. Because remember, a lot of the reason a five-year-old is refusing is that they feel there's a lack of autonomy and control. So you're not trying to play them to give them control in any way you can. Do you want to eat on this big chair today or do you want to eat on your chair?

Do you want to use this spoon or do you want to use this spoon? Like giving them some level of autonomy so that they feel like they have a say, even though you're deciding. Okay, so the meal is, you know, again, I use chicken, rice, vegetables because it's just a balanced meal. But, okay, here's the meal. I don't want this today. Well, this is what we're eating. Well, this is what we're having today. Well, I'm not going to eat it.

Okay, well, I can leave it here. Is there anything else you want to add in terms of, you know, you want ketchup with the fries or, you know, you want to add salt and pepper. I said that. No, I don't want to do it. Okay, well, this is our meal. I'm going to keep it here for 20 minutes and you can decide to eat it if you'd like to eat it. But our next meal is coming in breakfast time. Okay.

Two hours later, they want a snack, right? Because that's usually what ends up happening to some kids. Well, remember, we said that the next meal is coming at breakfast time. We can have a snack, and your snack options are a little glass of milk or a banana. That's all we can have today, like for like a bedtime snack. We're not going to offer a bedtime snack if they don't ask for it. But this is a way of just so that they're not going to bed hungry because that doesn't feel good. But we don't want to cater to them.

And then we remind them like, hey, you know what we can do? You know, if you don't want to feel hungry before bed, make sure we eat as much as we want in the meal. And then tomorrow we can maybe put something else on that plate that you might want. I really also encouraged to put favored foods with new foods. So my son really likes these garbonzo bean chip things like that are really delicious and healthy. I love it. And he didn't want to eat his dinner, but I just put the garbonzo beans with it, these little garbonzo bean chips.

And he's like, mommy, I really want the garbonzo beans. I'm like, sure. Like it's not. So I put a little bit with his dinner. He ate that. He ate the dinner, even though he was refusing the dinner. So like I said, even putting that little, the bar that she likes sometimes, if she's refusing repetitively and saying, you know what? Today, you're going to have this meal,

and I'm going to put your bar with your meal. I want you to eat whatever. You know, you eat, when you're done, you give me your plate, and that's the meal, you know? And then if she only has four bites, hey, Drew, are we done eating? Your belly, your belly's full? Yeah, mommy. Okay, well, next meal is not coming until breakfast time. And your, your delivery is also very matter of fact versus, okay, do you understand? Like, are you going to, you're going to ask me? Like, you're just very matter of fact about the rules and just asking, hey, if your belly's full, that's great. I just want to make sure that you're full. The other things I want to just add labeling them as picky in front of them. That's going to be not something that's going to serve them well because

it's a self-serving prophecy. If you label them, they're going to be picky, right? You're not giving them even a shot to show you something different. So your taste buds are growing. You're still learning to like new foods rather than you're so picky. Why don't you ever eat? You never do what I say, okay, this is what we're having. You're just learning. It's probably tastes a little different. What does it taste like? Can you think of anything else it tastes like? Can you think of anything else that you can add to this that would make it taste better? So like you're again, giving them using their cognitive skills to kind of help them in the meal. And then also expecting quick results. You know, when you're offering the food, putting maybe a safe food, not pressuring them,

we sometimes think that, okay, they're going to start eating something next week. It can take multiple exposures for them to actually eat the food. And sometimes it's a matter of preparing it differently. And my older children, get them involved before they even enter the dining table or the kitchen, right? You want them to, if you can take them grocery shopping, if you can show them pictures of vegetables, if you can let them touch the vegetable or use kitchen safe knives to help you in the kitchen and smell it, they're more likely to eat it eventually, right? Because they help prepare it. and you are going to build them up. Call her your sous chef.

Tell her, you are my best sous chef. And, you know, being a sous chef, you get to enjoy your food. And then when you get to eat it and you enjoy it and just say, Drew doesn't even eat it, Drew, you help me make this. You are such a good chef. Like, thank you so much. Like, I can't believe that you made this for me. Like, wow, it tastes so yummy.

And we're, again, building the seed of, like, hope and positivity and also capability that they can eat it without the pressure of, like, you're not going to do it. it like she's never going to eat it like you're so difficult um and then don't use the reward system like if you're going to have as our like the bar that you mentioned just put it with the meal don't say well if you eat this you're going to get the bar um my husband does that and it backfires every time and i'm like can me please stop doing that hey if you finish your dinner you're going to get a cupcake because that's when he started only eating two bites to wait for the cupcake and i said no sweetie you are getting the cupcake so i'm going to give you the cupcake now you eat the

cupcake, you eat whatever else you want on the plate until you're full, and that's what we're having, versus putting it on a pedestal so that they feel like they have to get through the meal to get them the bar, to get them the sweet, to get them whatever it is that's more coveted. These are science-backed research methods on picky eating, and I really feel like they work, but the delivery is also key, like the very matter of fact, and that's when it comes down to what we talked about the beginning, avoiding the triggers, avoiding kind of reflecting back, especially for you, Sean, you mentioned you had a history of eating disorder. Like that can come back in your mind when you're when you're pressuring or not

pressuring your child of like, how is I approached at meal time? How am I showing up? How is I, how is food discussed for me? And so recognizing that can help you rein it in a little bit more and say, I'm going to back off a little bit. I trust my daughter. We're going to come up with a plan. We're going to have these boring snacks at bedtime if we need it.

We're going to be very clear on the boundary. if she's upset and she's crying, we're not going to cave to that, meaning we're not going to just give it to her because that wasn't the rule, but we will incorporate it. Yeah, I see you really like the bar. I will pack it for you for school tomorrow

because I see that you really like it. So when the kid feels seen, they feel heard, and they're more likely to comply because they know that you're not just boundary setter without a listener. You're actually on their team. You get it.

You understand that they like things and that you incorporate it into their lives. My personal reaction to that, I have seen including the kid in the preparation. I think all kids are similar in the sense that they like the adventure of learning or getting their hands on something. And when you're able to remove yourself from the cost of including the kid in, which is like it's going to be messier.

We've broken so many dishes. It's definitely slower. It's like you have to kind of put your teacher hat on as opposed to just do the prep. So there's like maybe like another layer of quote, quote work involved in that but we were just talking the other day about like the ikea effect where you know the people are you're more invested in something that you helped build and you spent time doing and i think that applies here too i also um the i learned this in marriage and i think it's carried over to parenting where i used to go golfing with my friends and and be kind of

apologetic and like sad like oh no i babe is it okay if i go golfing and then you know i'm like thank you i come back and i'm like sorry i took four hours yada yada and that was kind of my default mode i don't know why but i switched it to more the upbeat like oh my gosh i'm so excited about this and thank you for this and that was like a massive context shift i think with how that conversation went and like how engaged Sean was and then you know this is important to me because XYZ it forced me to be a little more thoughtful about why I'm doing this activity and I think like the same thing applies with your kid as opposed to kind of like moping through it or like positivity does it takes some more thoughtfulness and I think that's a really good thing to to

kind of strive for and then lastly this has come up a couple of times in our conversation the beginning where it's like hey we can have a cupcake because this isn't the normal and then also not calling your kid a picky eater kind of similar through lines as i think about it it's like as intangible as it seems it's almost like an identity thing to be aware of like what you're what you're telling your kid that they are in some ways and you know i i think the identity is revealed through patterns and like what are they consistently angled towards or like naturally inclined towards and so it's not like it's being able to step back as a parent and recognize that pattern i'm like you know what we can't have a cupcake because this isn't this is not normal and

this is not the identity of of what the meal usually looks like or what the kids usually look like and i think that that inclination of telling your kid hey you're you're you're a wild man like we wanted to with our three-year-old we noticed that uh with with jed our middle child like he is really fun and loud and rambunctious. But we notice everyone would call him like a crazy man. And then you start realizing he starts owning that a little bit because he hears that about himself. And we're like, I don't know if I actually want that

to be part of his lingo or how he sees people relate to him. So let's just say like you're so fun or whatever. You know, like using different words that have, I think, better context and then applies with the eating and applies with that. rambunctiousness. But anyway, it was good. They become what we, they become what we tell them, like 100%. And I believe that. And, you know, if you say, you're so difficult. And especially when you're speaking to them or speaking about them in front of your partner or to another adult, right? Like, that even matters. Like, so if you're talking to each other and you're like, and that's why

we never, we always talk about our children very positively in front of our children. Yet, yes, me and my husband in private, we'll vent. Like, dude, he was so. being annoying today. Like, we do that. And that's, that's healthy, too, to do in private, because that's you and your partner sharing a reality because it's not easy being parents sometimes. But in front of the child, I always say, watch the language of how we talk about them, like, annoying. Yeah, you're so annoying. And I've been guilty of saying that. And I'm like, wow, that's really mean. Like, what if someone said that about me? And think about, like, anything that you wouldn't want to be said about you, like, God, Andrew, you're so crazy. Like,

you're so wild. Like, you know, and or even like, you're so, why aren't you talking? Like, you're so shy. Like, anything that you wouldn't want to be said about you is not something we should be saying about our children. And, you know, same. And it is that self-fulfilling prophecy because then you are going to inadvertently start to do things to cater to that when I talk about picky eating. Or you're just going to make excuses and you're not going to ever say, well, maybe they're capable of not being picky. Maybe they're capable of being chill. Like everyone can change when it comes to things like this, right?

The only things we can't change our identities. So, like, people are like, well, you know, like labeling a child as autistic is fine because that's their identity, right? That's not changing their identity. But these things are shiftable, right? Shyness and pickiness and being crazy or being calm. They're all shiftable. And that's why I don't think we need labels for these things for sure. I have a couple of questions about immune health.

And I want to ask it in a general educational way. So as not to bring in, you know, different sides. Yeah. Okay. You know what I mean. Heaven forbid you. You know what I mean. Get political with it.

People have strong feelings. Yeah, strong feelings. You and I have talked about this in length in person. Yes. But when it comes to immune health, let's start with basics. What are some ways that we can help our babies, starting at a young age, with building up their immunity to take on what they're exposed to in the world? So the basics from babyhood are not, I would say more so it's going to be more later.

But in babyhood, you know, making sure that we're trying to limit germ exposure because, of course, getting germs at that age is not as ideal as getting germs later. They're going to get germs when they start putting things in their mouth. That's a reality, daycare, siblings, all of that. But from a healthy foundation when we look at nutrition or look at immune health in general, it's nutrition, sleep, outdoor time, hand hygiene. So the reason why I'm saying that that might not apply to a lot of baby life is that, you know, you're not really, like you can't. I'm not saying that you should have to sleep train or anything like that, but they should, you know, there needs to be approaching of sleep. Like if a baby's not sleeping, like if there's no sleep at all, I don't care if it's sleep trained or not, like whatever it is, we need to have some sort of ability to encourage sleep in that child or baby. Nutrition is coming through formula or breast milk. There's a whole debate on what is better for immune health. We know that breast milk does have the antibodies and things. There's no denying that. But for anyone who is formula feeding, I don't want you to feel like there's a huge detriment there because formula has. has also been formulated to be very almost comparable to breast milk. But I will never say that it's equal in immune health because we do know that there is some

more benefits of breast milk, but I'm not worried that my formula fed son versus my breastfed daughter has a disadvantage in any way because it's not just about formula versus breastfeeding. And then when your child is a baby and when you're able to go outside for walks, getting fresh air and not being cooped up indoors. These are all things that's not only useful early on, but later as well, because we know that indoor, there's not as much, you know, there's more likely for germ spread. Outdoor, not only the vitamin D exposure, but just also just being outdoors in nature is very good for our mental health, which can also be good for our physical health as well

and our immune systems. And then washing hands, you know, so when your baby starts to put things in their mouth and then they start to eat, washing their hands for them, you know, before and after meals, and especially making that a routine for your older child so that they know that that's good for keeping themselves healthy is really important. Did you call that planned hygiene? What was the word you used? For hand hygiene.

Sorry, hand. Hand hygiene. Yeah. Can I ask, why are the kids always sick during the holidays? I feel like, you know, over winter break, all I want to do, you get a couple weeks, no school or child care. I'm romanticizing it. Like it's going to be such precious family time next thing, you know, everyone's sick and in

their rooms. Why? So it feels not fair. Like, I mean, my son has a December birthday also. So I'm like, I feel like I never get a healthy kid on a birthday or, you know, on the holiday. A few things are happening. In the winter months, which is basically now, let's say, December through March, there is a lot of indoor activity. And a lot of certain viruses, including flu, calm and colds, tend to like certain compositions of the weather.

What I mean by that is low humidity and also dry air. So viruses tend to replicate more in nasal passages, get some. spread more in those climates. So when you have a lot of people in an indoor place, spreading love and hugs and germs, and then you also have these viruses that prefer these climates, you're going to see more spread of these viruses. And so that is just the reality. And it seems so unfair because you have all these fun things planned. And it's not your fault. Like, you know, parents tend to put a lot of blame on themselves when their kid gets sick. And I'm like, you think you could have controlled this? Like, I mean, I wish. Like, I really wish we had this magic way to control because

And I wouldn't have all these sick kids in my office, but there's no way that we can really make this, you know, definitive thing. But you can go back down to the basics of hand hygiene, sleep, outdoor time, when possible, because I know it's cold in the wintertime, and then balanced nutrition, which we can get into. But then it's also about keeping, if someone is knowingly sick, keeping them away from other people. And that is really hard for people to do because everyone feels like they have FOMO. And how I look at it is like in the holidays especially, like you can make choices, but if you are really sick and you know that you're contagious because you have a fever, you're really unwell, you're coughing up a storm, it is best to not go into that activity. And if you must go into that activity, keep your distance from everybody else. Maybe you're not going to be on the ground with the kids playing. And if people are amenable, wear masks because these things can reduce the spread of germs, right?

Family gatherings are a very big chance for these things to spread because of the fact that. everyone's together and no one wants to miss out. But these are just some basic things that we can do to hopefully reduce the spread, knowing that it's not perfect. And I hope every year, I hope that the more viruses my kids get every year that we're going to have better holidays. And this holiday, we actually did. And that's the first time in four years we had. And I was like, shocked because when my son turned four, he got a fever. My daughter had a hand, foot, and mouth. We had to cancel his birthday party. It was a mess. And then this year we were like, oh, oh, oh. Don't, don't speak the word. Like, don't, don't say that it's been, it's been a good month. But it will happen as they get

older. And then you are going to get those moments because their hand hygiene gets better. They've been exposed to more viruses. It's not going to be like that forever. And I always say the more little children you have under the age of six, the more it's just going to be like that until all of them are over six, have better hand hygiene. They've been through it. They've been exposed to so many different viruses that even if their body gets exposed to that same virus, maybe they'll fight it quicker. Maybe they'll be down with just a little bit of a runny nose, but then they'll be better to, you know, no fever. They'll be better to go back to activity sooner. So it does get better. I see this personally and I see professionally as well.

Hmm. I learned a ton. I love it. Same. I could ask you a million questions. We have a ton of questions from Instagram and ask, but maybe we should just do a Q&A with Dr. We should. We can do a rapid fire Q&A another time. I'm always happy we can do whatever topic y'all want, but you know I love chatting with you. And I know our conversations can take so many different amazing terms. And I love that about chatting with you both because that's what parenting is. Especially having three kids of our own. I feel like we're in such the middle of it.

I'm like, I could ask you a million questions about my kids alone before we ever die. So many, right? I mean, that's why I love talking to both. It's so many. Yes. Well, thank you. You're welcome. And if you listening want to learn more about Dr. Mona, what she's up to.

We'll link her resources down below. But thank you for your time. This is a real treat. Yes, always a pleasure, both of you. Thank you. Thank you.