Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - Intentional parenting with Brook and Elizabeth Mosser

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Today we sit down with Brook and Elizabeth Mosser, founders of Intentional Parents, to talk about marriage, parenting, and navigating life’s toughest challenges. From chronic illness to raising children with unique needs, they share their personal stories, practical advice, and faith-based strategies for building resilience in family life. Tune in for an honest, inspiring conversation about how to lead with intention, love, and purpose in your home :) Love you guys! Shawn & Andrew Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody? Welcome back to a couple things, interviews with Sean and Andrew. Today we have two wonderful guests, Brooke and Elizabeth Mosser. We had a blast sitting down with these two here in Nashville. I've known Brooke from afar for like a year and a half. Wow. And big fan of his work. They together run a nonprofit called Intentional. And they do intentional parenting, intentional fatherhood. They speak around the world and have written many books. Actually, Brooke just wrote a new book called Sewing a Hidden Seed, Daily Prayers for Your Child Spirit. growth, and it's all about how you can intentionally pray over your children as they grow. So we enjoyed our conversation, kind of touched on a lot of topics. A lot of topics. Marriage, relationships, dating, parenting, and kind of everything that goes into that. Yeah. It was a fascinating conversation. We hope you enjoy it.

And if you want to find out more about Brooke and Elizabeth and the work that they're up to, you can find their information in the show notes down below. Without further ado, let's roll into it. What? Oh, my gosh. When you run out, let us know. We'll send you more. That's amazing.

I'm freaking love. We love honey like you would believe. Tell Bessie that this is better than his honey. Yeah. We'll tell him. Dude, he's ripping you so hard on us. And the packaging is so great. Yeah, did you guys actually, is this a business?

You guys actually sell this as well? We were for a while. It's not like a... It's our favorite gift to give. Can we just say thank you? This will be used probably at... Our kids will probably find it quick. But the bottle, that is...

Yeah, it's fun. It's fun. His great grandpa was a moonshiner. And a big super. We need to set this here. Just honored. Thank you. This is fun.

That will get used. I mean, just the packaging alone is, is, I mean, I don't even know what it tastes like. I'm sure it's white. It actually is really good honey. All right. Okay. So you guys are away for three or four nights? No, we were in Branson before this.

How many check-in bags do you have? Dude, freaking, I don't want to talk about this. This has made us so, no, not because. We're both light travelers. We're light travelers, but we also have a couple people on the road that were like, okay if we're out like it was a guy Ruslan have you heard of this yeah yeah so I was with him the other day and I was like okay if we're in the same

spot like let's grab a conversation so then you're bringing this minus light you bring the whole podcast set up you got your setup wow I'm not wrecked this no no we just met her here or like she flew in yesterday yeah she did you guys just met okay no no no no

no no no no no it right no so she leads events actually fun story so her brother John Mark is married to Tammy okay get that track that Hammy's brother is Tano her husband Oh funny Tano

Mm-hmm We're a family Wow Yeah get the connection there Are you guys related? Yeah Through marriage But yes we are

Wow Yeah And Really family in lots of ways So in Abby's Abby is slays Literally We do events

And so I mean They're big events And so We just We just give them all to her And so No it's a huge

We're actually doing the factory we're going to be at the factory next in April doing our next motherhood retreat so it's great so please feel free to come you I mean the dudes come too but it's a motherhood retreat but we're doing the factory just because it's a such a central spot for so many people on the East Coast yeah everyone anyone that you're like hey we're at the factory or we're in Franklin they want to be there do you guys always match too with no no it's a vibe it doesn't bother me it bothers her so I told I was like I only have two pairs of shoes on this trip

Because I was trying to, what else can I throw out there? And she has like four or five pairs of shoes on this trip. So I was like, listen, I kind of just want to let you know is my only option. So I asked her express permission today. It's true. I said I don't, you know, most of the time the lower half is not filmed. That's true. We'll just solely focus in.

Let's have a shoe camera. We'll jump in here. A lot of what you all do and work on. has the word intentional involved in it. Why live an intentional life? I mean, why not just sit and vibe and kind of just like go with the flow? What is intentionality and why is it important to you all?

I'm going to throw that back on you guys as well because I think you guys actually embody so much of that, right? Like you don't move through the world haphazardly. And most of us, I'd say, and Elizabeth will probably have a smarter answer, so I'll give you my quick thing and then let her share it. But I'd say a couple of things are like, when it comes to family, I think the world that we live in, and you guys, we're all in, there's so many people are so intentional,

but in my opinion about all the wrong stuff. So we get really passionate about our careers, about where we're spending our energy, maximizing our recovery process. I mean, I love solace and cold plunges, by the way. Are you these people? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to talk, yeah. Like, it is a love language to me on a deep level.

And I'm all about that. But I think we often don't transfer that to the family space or it just falls short. And so I think the idea of intentionality is just simply saying, it's Jeremiah 2415. As for me in my house, we're going to serve the Lord. Like we're going to pick away and we're going to be thoughtful about it just like we'd be thoughtful about our business, just like we'd be thoughtful about our marriage, just like we'd be thoughtful about what schools we're trying to get into or get our kids into. And so, I mean, for me, I won't speak for you, sweetheart. But for me, that is like, it's where it comes from in a deep way. Yeah, I love that question.

It's really making me, like, think about what, why is that so important to us? And I think I've been struck even over the last couple years about how many scriptures that talk about, like, running the race marked out for you, you know, to run with endurance. But there's so many, like, specific scriptures that talk about specific giftings that God's given us. if you think about that we are made in his image, made to be the body of Christ, the hands and feet of Jesus, we really have to be intentional about figuring out what our role in that is supposed to be, like personally and as a family and with our kids. And I also think, I think the older I get, the more I've been thinking about, like, even seeing my kids age so quickly and thinking about, I have like one shot at being their mom,

at stewarding them through these years of their life and they'll be my kids as long as we're all alive but I only have one shot at each of these stages or even this current stage of my life and I think it's probably a little bit how I'm wired of like I want to do the absolute best job that I can so I need to actually put like thought into it and think about it when it's so easy

and I think this is just how the enemy works it's so easy to just like survive our life right and there are seasons where we are just in survival mode and that's totally okay and there's actually a lot of muscles that are built during those seasons um but i don't want to just survive my life i want to really know what god's called me to do and called our family to do yeah most of us don't end up there you know where we're if we don't aim for something we don't ever get that mark right so that's that's kind of the idea but it's like how do you do that within your family context so that's one of the things we're passionate about and

we're failing through so like yeah if you guys mess up we mess up probably more uh i think that's our biggest negative development has been our best friend, you know, like not doing well at first, but having to really figure it out through struggle. That's been a lot of our life. Interesting. Reverse engineer intentional parenting. So I feel like if someone's listening and they say, you know, I just want to be happy with my kid.

Is that intentional parenting? Or are you putting more effort into it? When you say an aim, how can you intentionally parent without being an over-controlling overbearing parent? Oh, I think you are an over-controlling, overbearing parent. If you're anything like me, I think that it's not, I wish it was that clean, right? So I think the reality is we are all haphazardly in a very messy way, learning how to be parents. I think your story, how you grew up, the models you had or didn't have, it absolutely impacts your parenting in such a deep way.

My wife came from a family that was really thoughtful. They did this back in the 80s when, like, people weren't talking about it as much. So she came into this thing called marriage, and she was pretty generally healthy, which was rad for me, not rad for her when I was like a wreck. My family had a lot of different things going on, a lot of different dynamics. And so I grew up with a lot of trauma and a lot of things that I didn't even know. So we got married at 21. And then all of a sudden, because we're totally ready at that age, by the way, to get married. Highly don't recommend it.

What age were you guys when you got married? 23. Oh, okay. We're in good company. Yeah. Yeah. So we get married at 21 like we know. Yeah.

And then we decided, let's have kids. We decided to have kids. at 23 and realizing like, oh my gosh, we do not know what's happening at all. And so to respond to your question, we got married so young and our stories just collided. And it was like, I have no idea how to be a good parent or a good father or a good, you know, husband to my wife. And so the intentionality space for me personally, I think us in general is like we have been so specific about our weaknesses. And like, I think the way that you become intentional is about identifying your own story like where did you come from what were your parents like did you have

models like i i'm a dad right now of a 16 year old boy well that stage in my life my parents had a lot going on and they kind of ejected from the ability to parent in an effective way so right now in real time even this week even on this trip we're on currently i'm having interactions with my son i'm like i don't actually know how to parent that from memory from models so i'm talking to her and other people like how do we how do we do this stage so i don't think intentionality is being a perfect parent by any means none of us are perfect. I think you'll fail more than you'll succeed in a lot of ways. I think be okay with failing. But so much of it's the repair space. Like we're going to fail all the time and Elizabeth does so much great work on attachment stuff and I mean so many people do. But I think

this is a particular passion for you. But I think the repair space is so important and powerful because we do mess up all the time. And we're in that club too. And so to reverse engineer it, I'd say be honest with yourself, be patient and realize that it's a journey for everyone, knowing your story is huge knowing how to like actually have a goal like we've talked about like what are you trying to accomplish at dinner is it just get everyone fed into bed or or is it something like hey we just want to have a moment to pause and focus on Jesus like little things like that I think it's the micro moments of each day that makes you an intentional parent not a perfect parent yeah those are my quick thoughts when I think about intentionality

pretty much relate everything back to athletics or the weight room because I'm a But I think about being an athlete on a team, like playing on a football team and having coaches who provided the framework and were so intentional with the schedule, the nutrition, the exercises, the practice. And the transition away from that for me as well as for Sean and a lot of other athletes is so difficult because you leave that scaffolding of like the schedule and the end goal. Like there's no finite tangible endpoint anymore. You're just like, all right, well, I'm not playing sports, so what do I do?

And then if I manage to figure out something else to do, I don't know how to get there. Like, I don't have a coach anymore to hold my hand through it. And so you go from, like, high intentionality to low intentionality. And I guess if I'm comparing those two styles, it's like at some point, I remember when I first got released from an NFL team, it's three months before I got another shot. And I sat on the couch. for two and a half months and I just watched TV

legitimately. I was a grown man, I was 22 and I like, and then at some point you're like what am I doing? Like to your point it's like they're, I get one shot at this and I feel like I have been given some talents or I can't contribute. I think at some point you hit a wall of like

dang, I am doing something it's just not what I want to do. So I guess the idea of intentionality is it does require a lot of thought and awareness, reflect I would say prayer in football we would always talk about like you go out and practice

and you're either in survival mode or you're like really attacking it and thriving survival mode is like all right boys it's another day just got to get through it you know whereas there's another layer of reality where you're doing the same things it's just like the engagement

the excitement the ability to I would say like gather community around through that as opposed to just pouting yourself and like thinking about how can I make it's like more of a open-handed like broader perspective yeah yeah so the work thing though I want to highlight what you just said is really important because you actually just named it which is and there's so much power in naming stuff we can't like fix everything but we can name a lot of stuff and it helps us see things more clearly and what you

just said actually named the whole thing when you don't do the work like everything starts to fall apart now most of us do the work in all the tangible areas I think the invitation from the Spirit, the invitation that I know we would love to invite people in, because this is a lot of our journey, is you have to do the work of spiritual formation in your own life. Not everyone grows up and tells you that. Not everyone's like, hey, guess what? If you're wanting to form as a whole human, there's multi, yeah, physicality is huge, jobs huge. But like, you got to do the work internally. And one of the things I know that we're very passionate about is like, biblically, we have a responsibility to know what's going on inside of us. So when you

over respond to your kid, and you will, if anyone's like, am I going to do that? yes, you'll probably happen today. You'll over respond to your kid. And to ask the question, like, huh, where do that come from? Is that my anxiety? Is that my fear? Is that my nervous system not being able to regulate? Are they poking on something to me that I never got?

You know, all these questions, but doing the work is I think what we mean even more by intentionality is that you take that responsibility that Jesus gives all of us to step into a space of doing the work spiritually, spiritually forming around these things. Can you help me differentiate the self-help and self-improvement space from where you all might land? Hot topic. I love this. Yes. That's a really good question.

Immediately makes me think back to, like, who has God made you and what is he called you specifically to do? Is somewhat of the difference maker? It's not a, well, I'm just going to try harder to know myself better, to give myself what I need, and to be a better. parent. That might work for a little while until your kid gets to a certain age and bumps up against one of your wounds you didn't even know you had. And it's like all of those opportunities are just opportunities for God to bring his healing into your life. Like we are all in desperate need of healing, whether you had Brooks' upbringing or mine. Like I had phenomenal parents. We all are in therapy and we all have wounds. Like that's just the nature of life this side of heaven. And I think

it's bringing your whole self all the broken parts of you, the gifted parts of you, that your ego can get involved and your self-ass ambition can get involved. It's bringing all of yourself to God every single day and every single moment that you can remember and saying, God, would you transform me? And it's, I think, the difference between all the, even just good spiritual self-help stuff that are like good tools. But it's us using our ambition to go after changing ourselves. And I think the longer I'm a parent, the longer I'm alive, the more I see, God uses all of the messiness, the times that I completely blow it with my kids, like the messiness of our

story that has turned out very different than we would have thought. Like all of that has shaped me more than any of the stuff I've tried harder at. And I am like a go-getter, try-harder perfectionist type of person. and when I come at my life or my kids or my parenting in that mode, my kids just feel pressure and I just feel completely exhausted. But when I come at it from truly like a place of weakness, like this is where I'm really weak and God I really need you to invade in this moment because I'm like watching myself blow it in real time with my kids or with my husband.

Thank you for admitting that. That's true. I just want to say, I'm glad we've all heard it. You've got it. Literally recorded, you can play it on a loop back to yourself. I'm just taking a moment. This is nice to hear. I know, I know you feel it.

Don't always say it. It's good. Keep going. But yeah, like I think it's depending on the power of the Holy Spirit to actually do the transformation. And I can put myself in all the right places and do all the right things for God to do that. But it's him who actually does that work. Yeah. The transforming piece.

Like I think that is the biggest part. Like what's the difference is, well, where's your power coming from? Is it from yourself or is it from the spirit of God? And I know from us, but obviously we, if you couldn't tell, have a Christian perspective and are very passionate about that. But I think I can only say this from personal experience. When I try to just tackle the idea of parenting and being a better parent on my own, it gets worse. I don't know anyone else's situation, but it gets worse, gets more complex for me specifically when I'm like, Jesus, I need help. this happened yesterday morning with one of our kids they were needing something we're away on a trip we get a call a lot of stuff going on before i pick up the phone

jesus give me grace with the insanity that i'm about to interact with because i do not understand i don't even know what this child particularly needs and it turned out to go okay right but i know that i've done that so many times where i've just been like let me just use all of my my internal knowledge and it's just broken down so bad so i think there's just a grace that we can't even fully understand when we step in that space and invite the spirit in As that reminds me of we had a conversation yesterday where someone is just kind of dabbling into this journey of religion and Christianity. Yeah. And they felt debilitated by anxiety and worry and what ifs and how could and all of these things. And I get really caught up with that with control with kids because I try to break down the day of, well, they have school.

And then after school, I should do something really intentional. I should go pick them up. We should go do something. We should have time at the art center. Mom guilt. Oh, my gosh. And then it's, I'm spending too much time with one kid and not the other. Did I make them feel love today?

I was really tired. It just spirals. Yeah. And something I love, you're devotional. It's this idea of like each day taking a small moment to just reflect on these babies. I said this in our debrief the other night. I said, how lucky are we that we have the greatest kids, obviously by us? Yeah.

And I was like, wait, we actually aren't lucky at all because they're perfectly made. They're God's babies. God made them perfectly and gave them to us. Like, that was intentional. And I love the intentionality you bring with the devotionals of, like, re-centering parents' minds each day to say, you can't control it all. No. Yeah. We can do a little bit better each day.

But. Sean's control is probably overcompetiting. I'm kind of like that uncle out of Christmas vacation where I'm like, all right, kids, go grip and rip. baby said that's a good uncle we need both we need i mean we're we share that dynamic i want to say though you just said something really important we're we're in all sorts of form of therapy so i just want to say we're saying this from a place of like we actively last week we're at therapy like we're family therapy with our older kids because of some dynamics because our third one has special needs and it affects the whole family dynamic all that to say our therapist just told us

the other day she's like you'll miss attuned to your kids 70% of the time and we're like that Why would you tell us that? Like, I don't want to know that. That feels really gross. Like, what do you mean? And she, I was like, so what's the hope? Like, why, 70s more than 50. Yeah.

What do we do? So just to your point, like, when you have that feeling, like, am I missing it? Probably, we all are. But it's all about in those moments of small connection, they go further than we know. And then the repair work is exponential. Like, just by being able to say, I'm sorry, I overresponded. Taking responsibility heals not only their soul. but their body and their humanity.

And so I'm always finding comfort in the reality. Like even professionals that are in this space all day long ago, we miss attuned to our kids all the time. And that idea of attumen is like being able to see them, to soothe them, to help them. I think that happens to us often. And I don't think we're in a culture right now that really aids the person that is wanting to be intentional.

So I want to highlight that. Like this is a hard time to be intentional because we have way too much information. So now we all know in all the complex ways that we're damaging our kids. Our parents didn't really know. They're like, well, we don't know how. We'll just, you know, they'll be on their journey.

Now we're like, we have podcasts and like this and others that are like so helpful and informing, right? We do podcast work. We're all about it. But sometimes knowing all that is so hard to like just be chill in your own skin with your own kids, at least my experience. Well, to your point of like fear, like it, it, I've noticed just even, you would think that the longer you're a parent, the less fear you would feel.

but I feel like we started our parenting journey maybe very beginning of the age of the internet and smartphones. Yeah. And we have so much information to what Brooke was saying. And it can lead to so much fear and like, well, I'm not doing this. And somebody told me I should do that

and I need to be doing this. And there's something so simply beautiful and profound about just taking a minute and unburdening that to God. Yes. And I've, so Brooke was the one who wrote this devotional, but I got to read it like all in one sitting because he wanted me to read through it.

And I... Because I'm smart. I was like, there's no way I'm putting anything out in the world. My wife doesn't see it first. Like, it's like, why would you do this? I would... But by the end, like, all I could notice was like, my shoulders had dropped a little bit.

I was taking deeper breath. Because I was praying for my kids the whole time I'm sitting and reading the whole thing. And it was such a reminder to me of the great need in our current time for all of us parents to be taking two minutes. and bringing God our fears as a parent, whether it's the fears of the things we feel like we're missing or the fears of things we're seeing in our kids

that we're worried about or, for me, it's a lot of times future fears. I'll see one thing and I'll fear project out into what that's going to look like in 10, 20 years. And of course, it's always my fault. She's good at that. I'm really, really good at that. I absolutely talk about how catastrophic, like, could get.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like, even on the way here, we're like, she's like, well, there's a couple things with our kids that we need to talk about right now. like sweetheart i mean this could this is a year away yeah can we have some faith for the next me in that no well i don't know if i'm i get annoyed pretty quick because i'm like do we not have faith and then it doesn't don't take that advice no we need to pray that's what we need to do i need

most the time we end up praying because i mean honestly that's a centering yeah yeah very centering so what would you say the hidden seed is when you say song a hidden seed oh man i think it's the faith in Jesus and the hidden part is I think that a lot of prayers are a hidden thing so like things happen in the hidden parts of your life like there's stuff happening in your soul right now you know if you're walking with Jesus you're growing in all these ways we can't tangibly see that it's a very hidden process I think the hidden part for me is actually that's a quote from a guy named Ronald Rollheiser amazing love him he's a Catholic guy and loves Jesus very much and it's it's a part of a big quote he has and that's one of the phrases he uses and

it always struck me because specifically when we go about and sew a hidden seed, it's like the secret work that parenting, I think, often is. Your kids have no clue at what you've given them already. The home, the family, the love, the fact that you guys are still together. Like, you're giving them

all of these things that they will never come aware of until they're your age on the other side of this, right? Like, wow, my parents actually did. We're at that stage where our kids still think pretty bogus about stuff and over the top about other things. But now they're old enough to like use it against says like, hey, is this for intentional or is this because you like want to talk to us about

something? We're like, whoa. Never about the ministry part. But, you know, I think the hidden part is, the prayer for your kids is the most, in my opinion, is the most powerful thing you can do because of the point, like you said, how in the world are you going to be there for all the problem? You can't be God in their life. You can't solve all the problems. But if you're a doer, I know I am, I would imagine you guys are, it gives me something to do. It's like, when I talk to God about their faith and about where they are at or where rather they're not at in all the struggles in their life, I mean, not only is my anxiety drop, but I'm actually talking to a God that can do something about it. Richard Foster says prayer moves the hand of God.

Like when we pray, like stuff happens. And all I know is that, and I can't remember who said this, but when I don't pray, coincidences don't happen. But when I do, a lot of coincidences happen. And I think that's the reminder is that we can't always track all this hidden stuff. but there's that unseen realm that the Bible talks about that we're all in right now and that's the hidden space where all this transformation

in Deepways happens. So that's the hidden part but I think there's a lot of other metaphors you could draw from it but that's where it was for me. It's my kind of book too because you got words going left to right,

up and down, all kind of places. It is for ADHD, D brains. Yeah, my wife's diagnosing me all the time. I literally have an appointment when we get back two days after she's like, I'm pretty sure I'm like, I'm still in a mom.

mild amount of denial, but that's probably why it's that way. For ADHD? No, I mean, yeah. Just keep an idea. Yeah, that's the meeting that I have. But she's great at being like, you see, and then the other day,

our son doubled down on me. He's like, dad, we were flying on a plane, and I was sitting in the back. He has ADHD, by the way. Duke does. Oh, yeah, yeah. But he's sitting in the back and he's like watching me. And they go have this whole side conversation

months before I even knew this. They're like, yeah, when you were sitting on that plane, I was like watching how you were doing stuff. I was like, and my son's like, too, You totally got it. And I'm like... No, he texted me. He said, I'm traveling with dad.

He totally has ADHD. What a gift, son. I love how our family is taught. It is. We'll see who's right. I was about to get better. So, intentional parenting and intentional fatherhood.

Yeah. You have a 16-year-old son. Yes, sir. At what point does me being intentional for my child... become intrusive or like stepping on toe at some when do they start being intentional for their own life you know what's the role of a parent how have you seen that evolve because right now it's like you know we're changing dive we're very intentional with all the things of their life because that's the phase where it feels like but uh i've already noticed uh like our six year old

it's like dang i thought i was i was a really good parent to like four year olds yeah but now i got to let them i have to change my whole strategy because yeah she needs to start doing more chores and stuff like this you got to it's constantly changing and then you're like you think you get the hang of it and it changes yeah but you're like do I slowly remove myself from this picture so they can grasp intentionality for themselves or yeah what are your thoughts on that well makes me think of I can't remember who said it um but it's like the stages of a disciple and correct me if I butcher this um but it's um thinking of like somebody who's an apprentice of Jesus or even thinking of like biblical times where there was a rabbi and they had somebody they had people

following them and first it was I do you watch and that's so much of the young years right of like we are teaching them how to do everything and we're showing them and then you know we're helping them do it after they've watched us do it potty training think about that right yeah great example a very tangible example our one-year-old stands in the bathroom with me every time yeah there you go buddy I guess I'm not sure I need to watch right now There's an age where this becomes weird, we're not there yet. And by the way, they grow out of that. My son at this point, yeah, well, that's not happening anymore.

And then isn't it you do all help? Isn't that the next one? It's close. Where probably what you're experiencing right now with your six-year-old, where it's like you do need to let her do more, which is hard because you're so used to doing everything for them, right? And so you're still there. You're still there guiding.

You're still giving great input. or maybe it's I do you help. Is that what I said? I'm not sure, but I think you should just keep going on. And then eventually it's they're doing. And we're there. We're watching and we're supporting and we're not withdrawing our support, but we are releasing them to make mistakes

and to do things on their own. And I think the tricky journey and we're in it right now is as our kids have gotten older, it switches from, there's a lot of things that are black and white when they're young. like don't hit your sister don't touch the fire go to the bathroom in the toilet not on the floor like there's things that are just obvious black and white and then slowly over time it's almost like very little is black and white anymore and it's everything is a discernment issue everything and i feel like i'm more dependent on the spirit in this stage of parenting than i ever was in the younger years and that's been a really good thing i've needed that because everything is like discernment for this particular kid, is that actually what's best for him? Is he ready for that level of freedom or does he need a little bit more time?

And so we're just having to really listen to each other because at first we had kind of different opinions and by the end we were on the same team. But your son also has an opinion too, which is so fascinating. And what's also really fascinating is what news we're going to give him, which is different than maybe what he wants, right? But you said that brilliantly. Maybe a metaphor that's for a more simple mind like mine is in the sense of like Like right now when they're young, it's a lot of policing.

It's like cop. Here's what you do, do it. And then when it gets to the stage where we're in right now with our older kids, it's a lot of coaching. I can't make my son physically do anything. I can't make him do it. So he knows that. And we talk about this all the time. So it's like, son, I can't make you get up on time.

Can't make you go to work. I can't make you do the morning routine that I laid out. But I'm going to tell you what happens when you do it. I'm going to tell you what happens when you don't. I'm going to tell you the guys that I know that do it. I'll tell you what's happened in my life. and you get to decide what kind of life you want to live right and then you have to just sit in this wonderful tension of them sometimes picking the best thing that you've given it like you've given them

the easiest menu just pick one thing and sometimes you're like I don't want anything on the menu I'd like the special menu and you're like ah that's going to screw up your life so I know for us it is really it's challenging but if you do a lot of the hard work right now right like by being close to your kids and I just came across this new study about fatherhood and it is just like it all comes down to a present, I mean, present mothers, absolutely. But so much of faith, so much the foundational stuff is passed on just through a father being present. Just by being around consistently in their life, these things are passed down, which should

relieve everyone and also call everyone up, you know, at the same time. But to encourage anyone listening, like, that coaching stage is so nuanced. Because, I mean, you guys get that perfectly, right? Like, here's where you should go. Here's what you should do. I'm going to show you. But then you got to choose to do it. you know, do you want to be the person that decides to sit on the couch for two and a half months

or do you want to do the work? So it's a lot of coaching. It's a lot of conversations like late night. He'll get home from work. He works at a taco shop. Gets home from work and it's like, okay, he's like, I don't love the boundaries we have on the phone. I feel like you're just like right here with these boundaries on the phone. Like I have a smartphone now because he drives, but then at the same time, he's like at that space where he's going, you know, I feel like having these restrictions on the phone are like too much. And they're like, okay, well, what does that mean? You're being kind of global about that.

Be specific. How do you feel like we are, like, hovering over you and forcing him to, like, have that conversation? And that took, like, two hours. I was up until midnight trying to nuance, like, so it really comes down to the fact that I won't let you listen to explicit music whenever you want. Is that what it is? He's like, I think so. It's like, okay, well, I'm not changing my mind on that one.

So, you know, but it's that all the time. And it's beautiful and it's complex. And it's just, like Elizabeth said, the discernment piece is essential. And I think. You know, you mentioned, like, how do we not just be hovering so much and controlling so much? Like, when do we know when it's time to release a little bit? And I think if there's one thing we can do as parents, our kids are going to fail. We're going to fail them.

They're going to fail and mess up in life. Like, our goal is not to raise perfect kids. Our goal is to raise kids who become adults who know what to do when they fail. And so to me, a huge win when my kids blow it or when they, handle a relationship really poorly or if they really screw up in their life, like what I want and what is so, I just feel like I get so excited when they can come to me and tell me that they did and that when we can be their safe place where they know they can bring us anything and hopefully we're not going to react poorly, hopefully we're just going to be with them

in it. And they'll have to sit in the consequences of the mistakes they make. But my hope and our goal is that we will just be a soft landing place where when they mess up they're like I want to call mom and dad yeah you know that's the biggest goal how do you get to that point because I struggle with I think maybe there's two styles where you're like all right uh I want to make my kid feel the consequences but then that might not encourage them to share more you know what I'm saying because so how do you balance enforcing the consequences while still cultivating a desire in them to want to share and trust you with sharing. You know what I'm saying?

Because if I'm a kid, when I was a kid, it's like, well, I know I did something bad so I'm going to not share this with, like, parents because I know something bad. Me too. By a lot, like a lot. Yeah. Well, one thing that is, I think,

really important to highlight is, you know, as you're growing up, especially discipline biblically means training. So what's interesting is we think discipline is like, you're in trouble, right? Like, here's a consequence. Now, sometimes there's consequences, but what we have found is that life is pretty good at handing out consequences and we don't always need to double down on that now there's absolute times when they're really little where

you have to be specific you have to teach them like hey because this happened this is the result you're teaching them that life has consequences that's one stage stage we're in now is more of like wow the guilt and shame that you feel about what happened is a lot and it's honestly punishment enough in that sense and it's highlighting what happened it's highlighting how does that, you know, actually feel and I want to be with you in it, but this is exactly why we talked about not doing that. One of the phrases I think that's really good, especially with kids your age and stage, we use this with our younger ones as well, is you're safe to tell the truth. Like, hey, I want you to tell the truth. And you're safe to tell the truth. Now, that

doesn't mean there's not going to be a consequence, but what it does mean is that I'm going to listen to you. I'm not going to over respond. And you're safe to be honest with me. Because most of the time, the reason you're not honest with your parents is because you're like, I don't what they're going to do are they going to freak out are they going to you know so when we give them that permission to say we're going to do our best and then we have to really be clear like sometimes that means well well you bit your sister well we told you not to hit her biting's in the same category is hitting so there's like there's going to be some consequences for that and thank you for telling me the truth and i want to say i'm so proud of you for being aware you know it's it's all that type of

stuff that's so important to reinstill that they can come back and be safe to tell you the truth so if my son comes to me and tells me like some catastrophic thing he's done, I've already decided whatever the catastrophic thing is, he hasn't been in that space. I've already decided like, I'm going to be calm and I want to be present. I just want to sit with him as I do this. It's got to be really hard to feel. And that's the goal. Like, will that happen? I hope so. I'm projecting that it will. But right now it's just setting up the place that he wants to talk to us. Yeah. And I think knowing your kids too, like we have two kids who tell us,

everything like with who have like some OCD bents like that's kind of why they tell us everything and then two that don't want to tell us everything right away and so we view it as our job as much as we can we can't force them but to to really be aware of that and work to set a stage where they feel like they can come and really work to draw them out to ask them the right questions to remind them often you know you can tell me anything right or ask them as they get older is Is there anything that I'm doing, any way I'm reacting to you that's making you feel like you can't tell me that there's stuff going on or that there's stuff you're trying to get away with? Even just asking them that question and then being humble enough to listen to their response. And so oftentimes our son with me specifically, you'll be like, yeah, I just feel like you're like watching over me too closely, you know?

And so he doesn't want to tell me stuff because I'm hovering too much. And so I'm learning in real time with him right now to let go to take a step back and to wait until he's ready to talk. me certain things and not be like constantly digging and trying to figure things out you know dang there's way too many directions to go i'm like sure you talk more about this anything you want go uh something that keeps coming back in my mind is this idea of like intentional parenting intentional yeah we talk a lot on our podcast about things that we do in our marriage to be very intentional to like we audit our marriage a lot daily weekly we have sit down conversations that are safe space where we can we do annual you know meetings and all these things yeah and we're trying to transfer

that over into parenting as well to have like goals and what do we need for this kid versus this kid and how can we show up for them a little bit more we said at the other week we're like this feels like a week we need to be with our four year old because last week it was all about the six year old so he needs a little bit more and we try to do that very um as much as we can feedback we've gotten for the marriage side though is wow that's just not romantic like you're taking out the whimsy you're taking out you know the adventurous side and the impulsivity and like with so much intention comes so much conversation and so much planning how do you protect the joy of it all they're really great i love the backstory and the question and i think that you're not

alone for sure and i think it's important to highlight everyone has made so uniquely different so some people need that whimsy they're like we never we do not plan sex it has to be spontaneous every time i'm like well how often do you like having sex because if you if you're waiting till you feel like it a lot of times like feeling who said i can't remember who says this but oh it was Dallas willard i think he said he said feelings are great servants but disastrous masters and when we're trying to follow our feelings like too they are disaster these to disaster but they're great servants right they're great like hey we're gonna do this and feelings follow and so much of life is like that i mean take a note but that said though i think it's like for elizabeth

and i and i won't overshare or under you can just tell me how you just say stop but i think for us like the idea of of romance is beautiful and I think that romance is so important I also think that it changes in every age and stage and when you have kids it's a different it's one stage like all of a sudden when we had kids she wasn't like really fond of me touching her and I was like I don't like this like give the kids back this is my wife she's like my body's for everybody it was like but me first right like that was my idea and then I had to realize like no there's actually something really good in this for me too it's good for us and so i mean i don't know about i won't speak for you but i know that we are very specific about planning times

of of romance or intimacy or even connecting now we don't always do it because our life is pretty chaotic with some of our family dynamics and so that's that can be really tricky but we always know it's like on the calendar it's it's times of connection we try to do date night every week again that's hard because of some of our dynamics and we try to have these touch points right and feelings follow I mean it is not it is again disastrous masters feelings are bad in the sense of if they're in charge

but when we just schedule life feelings do follow so for that person that's like how do you want the whimsy I want all of it I would just say like what kind of life do you want because if you're waiting for your feelings you're probably not very happy you're probably pretty discouraged you're probably not actually getting

the most out of your relationship that in many ways it deserves and it could any thoughts babe yeah you said uh how do you still find like the joy in it and i love what you said also of like you have to know who you are some people being planned and really intentional sucks all the joy right out of everything which is for me like when we plan everything i'm like i'm kind of out on yeah but you've grown to like planning more over time when it's around intimacy i love that that kind of plan that's true you like that kind of plan yeah i love how you answer that question strictly

for six to do. I'm like trying to turn it around about more than that. I'm trying to speak to the male audience that is thinking primarily that. And I also want to highlight of course, it's extremely important.

But you mentioned joy and it made me think of, I think as you're married longer, and you guys can test this, you guys have been married almost 10 years, right? Yes. The joy in marriage changes.

The joy in life changes. Your goals or your ideas of what you thought it was going to be drastically change. Marriage is so different than what we thought at 21. It was supposed to be or we didn't even know what it was supposed to be or why it was important at that age. But I think what brings you joy changes as you mature and grow. Yes. And so I think you, like, you did not love any sort of planning or...

No. Structure felt restrictive. Yeah. And, like, death to me. But in my own journey process of doing the work, I've realized, like, that's an area I have to grow. And so I've actually learned, like, wow, introverts have some, they've got some good stuff going on. Like, I don't love all of it all the time. I like a lot of people, but I also like, man, they got some stuff figured out when they're by themselves for a week.

Like, that's pretty cool. Well, you've become a very routine person because you want to live an intentional life. And so I think that you have to figure out what do you need and what does your family need to be able to live an intentional life where everybody is somewhat thriving. Now, can we overdo that and just suffocate our families? Absolutely. And I think that's where it's such a fine balance of like we can be too aware in our current time as parents and as people of like, I got to be doing all these things the right way and I got to be intentional about every area where we're just a stressed out mess.

Like that's not helping anybody. But I think that extra thought and communicating together and that's where marriage is such an interesting dynamic because one spouse might have this. grand idea of how life should be structured and maybe loves to live really regimented and the other spouse doesn't she's talking about her and then me that's us but we need each other like we we are truly better together for all of the conflict that it might bring and the difficulty of figuring out how to do life together like it sounds like you guys have figured out how to navigate these intentional touch points together as a married couple and that's working for both of you it

sounds like, which is beautiful. I'm sure it took you a while to figure out what worked for both of you. Am I right? Just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hilarious. Literally in the last 18 months, I had the revelation of like, oh wait. On year 10. When she shares her perspective and it's different than my perspective, it used to be an argument, but it can be insightful. You know what I'm saying? And then it takes, I know, it took a way too long. I'm freaking, I've admitted. Oh, you are not alone. But it feels like so personal every time. It's like, What do you mean? I don't understand why you can't see it my way.

And then it's like, oh, it's probably better. Honestly, if I did it my way, I'd probably be floating on a river, smoking dope somewhere, you know, like, have like no job. That would probably be the life I would live without Sean. But I was like, you've got an MBA from Vanderbilt. You think that's actually the direction. They aren't you getting your doctorate right now? Yeah, exactly. This is what Sean's turned me into.

But I want to say something that's really important because it's easy for people because this will be on the internet and there's microphones and there's a beautiful studio to think. that what we're saying is authority like what you're saying is like your check-ins are authority and I would say no use whatever example resonates with your family if that's too much structure for you don't do it like

but take the wisdom in it like what you guys are saying and what I'm drawing from it in a personal way which is so helpful is be really thoughtful about what you do with your time and make sure that you have specific touch points as a family as individuals on your marriage and on your kids don't if that model feels restrictive

then don't like the yoke thing that Jesus talks about is a real deal like you don't have to put that yoke on you and I know for me like there's certain parts of our like that wisdom in the world you think that if someone has a stage or if they have a microphone that they're the authority and I would say no no use the wisdom of Jesus to know like who is my wife who is my who are my kids like when your kids get older they start giving you feedback especially if you raise emotionally aware kids which by the way sounds nice and until it bites you let me just give you a fun story I came home it was about two years ago at this point and everything was calm and very clean, which is very

unnormal at that stage of like, oh, you're always very clean. But I mean, like, I walked in the door and everything was like, like, no no noises. It was just my two older kids sitting in the living room. Like, hey, dad, welcome home. I was like, this is weird. Like, what's happening? And they're like, you want to come sit in the living room? And I was like, yeah?

Like, I was like, why do I feel like I'm in trouble? Like, what's happening? And they're like, you know, we just wanted to talk with you about some stuff. And I was like, I immediately knew, I was like, they had a coaching from mom on this. I immediately knew, it was like, well, you really want to talk to your dad about something. So I'm sitting there, they're sitting on a couch.

I'm like sitting on the, like right by the fireplace and like, hey, we just want to let you know. We know you've been really busy. Thank you for working so hard, dad. But the way that you're responding

because you're stress and the way that you're being really short with us is really hurting our feelings. And we just want you to be aware of it because it's creating a lot of stress and tension. Amazing, though. Yeah, amazingly sucky for this guy. And the one part,

like, there was that part of me that's like, I helped do this and I hate being the recipient of it at the same time because all of my own story was coming up like you don't do this to your kid you know you don't do this to your parents

you do you know do as I say not as I do like you know I'm the authority you don't do it's disrespectful and at that moment I'm really grateful that the spirit got my attention and it was just like yep you're right guys okay and then I just had to go up

and like what the heck just happened you know and I'm just highlighting that to say like it it is amazing how even your own kids when when you do these intentional touch points your kids are going to help you become a better version especially if you give them permission to speak into your life you're teaching them by the way of like hey we're going to have these touch points as a family but as a as couples they're going to pick up on that really quick and then all of a sudden you know you're oldest is a little girl right yeah yeah she's going to come

to mom and she's going to be like so mom the way that you're saying this is kind of like it makes me feel this way i don't love that she actually checked me this morning. She did? Okay, good. So you're already good. You're doing a great job. So, I mean, it's both. Yes. I, I, sorry. I was very impatient this morning. I don't know why. There was no reason. It happens to all of us. Because you're a human. Let's get you. You get impatient? But she was like the last one to wake up and come downstairs. And just our routine was different. And she literally like stopped me. And she looked at me and she said,

Mama, are you okay this morning? And like, it's her words as a five-year-old, so it's not as much of, like, what's going on. Yeah. But it was, she noticed it. And I was like, I'm so sorry. Thank goodness she did it because I was not just be like, chill out. You got to chill out. But then, like, I told her, I was like, Mommy, just, I feel tired.

I don't know. It's not you. Yeah. And then there was some other thing where, like, we were playing. And I had, I actually had to check our son because he was not using kind of. words. And she goes, it's okay. She's not mad. She's just a little tired this morning. And I was like, wait. My gosh. Wait, but he actually needs to be corrected. No, but I really mean what I'm saying to him. That's it right there. You're already creating a culture where it's okay to have a

moment. It's okay to be honest about that moment. And it's okay for somebody else in the family to say something about you having that moment. And like you, before there was a big rupture, you repaired. And then you have your daughter telling your son, it's okay. Chill out, mom's having a moment. That is beautiful. That is absolutely beautiful. I love that.

It has been, I mean, we're experiencing for the first time the effect of like our good habits and bad habits that we've shared with our kids. And it's like, it is, there's nothing more exciting and fun than to see your kids pick up your good habits and like do it themselves. And there's also nothing more humbling. And then when you're like, oh my gosh, what have I done? I was trying to spike that whole generational curse or bad habit that I had. So it's like, I guess back to the intentionality, it's just how can you build awareness of how you're impacting your kids.

But I think I will go so far as to give a prescription to the people listening. Because I think this is coming from an unscheduled guy. What I have learned, and I think is more true now than ever, is when I, in the way, am depending on whimsy in whatever sense or like you know i want to preserve this sense of adventurousness so i don't put anything on the schedule how do i spend my time it's mostly just scrolling or on netflix or whatever so it's like i would say default to having something on the schedule yeah and then you could back out of that or like you know adjust and be flexible as necessary but i just have found myself not trusting how i spend my free time you know what i'm saying

oh yeah um yeah and it's also i think fascinating and helpful, been helpful for us to have like scheduled date nights. We even have monthly checkups. So we have this whole like rhythm that some months we hold better than others. But like having times where Sean can give me feedback that are more thoughtful and not reactionary in the moment is so helpful in how I receive this. Like I guess the term ego came up yesterday and it's like that's such a fascinating thing to try to fight where it's like there's certain times where I'm more able to receive her feedback and set aside my pride and my ego and for me I found that that's that is when we have like Sean can look at the

schedule be like all right two days from now like I'll be able to share this with Andrew I might not right now and maybe it gives her more time to think about the the feedback or the constructive criticism because you guys have like a rhythm built in where you know it's we're going to get feedback now yeah I love that. He's got it coming. So it's like, yeah, legitimately. I mean, that's kind of how it started. But now it's like, all right, we're doing monthly checkup.

And it's like, yeah, this is a pattern that I've noticed built up. And it's not just like, you know, her emotionally annoying me one time. It's like, no, it's actually worth bringing up. And it kind of dampens all of the mudsling that can go on. So anyway, I would say default to schedule. Well, and we're also at a point where I think it's time for us to start doing monthly checkups with our kids. Yeah. Yeah.

On us, on themselves, on their siblings, but just that practice of being aware and being free to say, actually, this really bothers me. I don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. Did that help or hurt your marriage? Like, I could only imagine that being, like, really intense. Was it intense?

Yeah. I can't. I can't even wait. I know you probably can't say anything, but I can't wait to see it. But I'm like, I was just curious. I'm thinking, like, we're talking about marriage, right? That had to have, did that bring up some stuff? Did that mess some stuff?

did it help did it like we're what happened with that i feel very glad that we went into it i think in a good spot where uh well it was really fun because i saw a side of sean that i'd never seen before so in 10 years of marriage you hadn't seen this like so i miss her whole competitive gymnastics career and the intensity that she's able to tap into is terrifying bro dude the whole vibe around the house for the couple weeks leading up to the show and on the show it was like it was like who are you you're an animal yeah it's like it's funny because yeah i i went pretty far in sport she went to the top yeah and i'm like i wonder what the difference is oh right there yeah i have nothing close to that intensity wow uh and so i think it was like really fun for us to

understand each other differently and it was also i mean a bunch of once-in-a-lifetime experiences and memories wow but i would also i think like our understanding of love changed too where like there was portions of that experience where it was coddling and comforting each other but there was also portions where it was like you're freaking out there doing this thing and you you want to tap out you want me to give you comfort but it's not like tough love but it's like I believe in you for you keep going I'll see you on their side yeah yeah yeah so it's unique opportunities for that too yeah we also have learned I think from our athletic careers that we've now transferred into everyday life and parenting and marriage it sounds it might sound

toxic but like we are desperately always trying to find our weaknesses like what is that one thing that's going to come up in 10 years where it's going to potentially bring up the divorce word or like we're so proactive about things that we want to get in front of it and we're the same way with our kids like we're constantly talking to each other every night about this feels like a weakness with you know our daughter or one of our sons that we need to be aware of and you know fostered differently between the three of them. And I think for us, we were in such a great spot

before we went to the show, but it was kind of this challenge of like, could we do something like this? Is something going to come up? When we're put in such vulnerable, fear-based situations, are we going to scream at each other? Are we going to quit?

Are we, like, it was a chance for us to expose more challenges and was really pleasantly surprised. We had a great, well, we didn't have a great time, but we had a great time as a couple. Like, it was, it was very strengthening. Wow. That's beautiful. Not everyone has the opportunity to do that kind of experience, but if you can remake that, I'd say, that'd be a fun detail.

The special forces of marriage counseling. That's the new things you guys should definitely set up a boot camp right outside in the back. You guys do a whole deal. Do you have therapists waiting at the finish line to be like, exactly. You do actually need to come with us. What we saw in the field there? That's not going to fly. Yeah.

I will say, I know this is totally stylistic, but, you know, people get into biohacking and, like, trying to live forever. And I think intentionality is interesting to me because it's almost like a game or like an experiment where, like, with biohacking, I like this on an ice bath because I'm like, all right, how long should I go and how, what time of day should I do it? And then what should I eat right after? And it's all like a game. It's how good can I feel. And it's like, I don't really care about feeling that good, but it's more just like the information. Yeah. And I think with our marriage, too, it's a similar thing where it's like, oh, interesting.

What blind spots do we have? How can we expose them ourselves so that we're not bit in the tail or like blindsided by them later on? It's like, it's always just like tweaking. And it's kind of like, I don't know, it changes up the day-to-day mundane. Yeah. I was going to say, bringing this full circle back to where we started of like the intentional side of everything within your marriage and parenting and reverse engineering it. what's a very simple maybe the book

daily habit that can help form kiddos in your marriage and just your life to be intentional hmm do you want me to go for oh yeah there's multiple you can go first if you want

no you go oh yeah I mean I think having a moment to unburden your soul to God if it's meditation whatever your thing is you have to have a moment

to deal with all that's going inside of you. And if you don't, it comes out of you. And most of the time, it hurts to the other people closest to you. So have a rhythm or routine. Some people are like, I'm a night person, great. You're a morning person, great.

Midday person, great. I think having a moment to pause and to just go, what am I doing? Why am I? Like, just not waking up into the day and like, just go, go, go. Like having a moment to as much as you can, even if it's a minute or two,

to just pause and remember like, what am I doing today? why am I raising these kids? Why are we married? Like those whys are really big. I mean, yes, the book was simply for parents because it's like the main thing you hear all the time. It's like, I got no time for this.

I was like, well, if we have a devotional that literally, if you clock it and read it from start to finish, it's maybe a minute and a half, you're getting scripture and you're able to pray over your kids over these different topics. For some, that might be a way to go. I know for us what it looks like is morning's more, I'm now a morning person because I'm married to my wife.

We're both mourning people. and it looks like a version of reading scripture, spiritual reading, meaning just learning from other people that are dead and gone or just smarter than us in this space. Sometimes it's journaling. Sometimes it's just prayer. I think that is the most important thing that I do in my parenting because if not, I usually go into the day. A distorted, dissenter, off center, it's huge for me. And again, wherever you're at in your faith journey, even to have a moment in pause and just think and just not have noise. I mean, all the neuroscience about just not having noise for 10 minutes.

It's just amazing what happens to your brain, your mental health. So I know for me that is, I can't say it to everybody. I can't even say everyone should do that. But it is the most helpful thing for me, by a long shot. Yeah, I mean, I was essentially going to say the same thing of, and for me, everything he just said. And for me, it looks like I do better when I actually like write it down. So when I journal, it's not some beautiful thought that someday my kids are going to read.

I actually hope they never read them because it's all of just, I mean, sometimes I literally throw them away after they're full because I'm like, no one needs to read any of this. But a moment before, and for me it has to be before my kids get up. I don't. I'm not a very good parent if I wake up to my kids being awake. That's just how I'm wearing. Which is really hard if your kids wake up early. So I get up very early.

Like every, with every kid, it was like earlier and earlier. But just having a moment, like a couple of minutes, I will journal out whatever it is to what he said of like unburdening yourself to God. Just I will journal out whatever it is that is on my mind that I'm worrying about that usually that I'm fearful of. So sometimes it's something in my own life. Sometimes it's something in our marriage or maybe it's one of my kids or maybe it's all of the kids. And I will just write down whatever it is I'm carrying into that morning specifically or maybe I've been carrying it for months. And then I will, after I write it down, always ask God, what do you want me to know? And I'll just write down whatever it is I hear.

Oftentimes it's like phrases of scripture, but it's a moment to actually sit and be able to listen to truth. I think the way that the enemy gets so after all of us right now, but I think especially parents is with just this steady stream of using all the information we have coming our way to give us a steady stream of lies, of just things about our kids, about ourselves that just aren't. true or they don't at least have to be fully true. And so having a minute to let God speak into what is actually true and what does he actually want me to do about it today? Not like, oh my gosh, this kid is struggling with this thing and it must be my fault and we've got to fix it. But how am I supposed to show up today? Yeah. And what am I supposed to do today? And that to me has been like so freeing to my soul. And when I don't do that, I notice a huge difference in how I parent and how I live my life. It's much more reactionary. It's much more fear-based. And my kids just

feel pressure. They don't feel me like trying hard to be a good mom. They just feel pressure that they're supposed to be better kids. And so that rhythm is huge. I couldn't agree more. And as I was thinking of, you know, for some, this might miss them completely that, you know, like, I don't have time in the morning. If you're looking for something like really tangible that can affect the, you know, I think the real temperature of your home immediately, words bring life or death. This is a very biblical situation right like death and life for in the power of the tongue you can bring people up with your words or you can destroy them and i think for our kids our culture but our kids especially are starved for encouragement and small and big and so we have this saying like your children will become

who you tell them you see them becoming so speaking life over your kids of who you see them to be even when they aren't that yet is a hugely powerful tool and we see when you do that and when you call your kids up to who you see them to be maybe not who they fully are yet they want to live into that and it's a very you know it's very amazing to watch in many ways but i would say one of the practical things you can do is like for each kid however meaning you have you have one is pretty easy if you have more than that if you're in four like us it takes a little bit longer but have one word of encouragement each day it can take 30 seconds but i know that this this happened with one of our daughters yesterday i couldn't she was at school so i couldn't call her but i left her

voicemail just telling her all the stuff I like really love about her right now and like all the different details of like she has insane taste in music I'm like I'm listening to your playlist on runs they are like incredible they're incredible playlist and I think you're beautiful and I think you're like whoever marries you's like just incredible crazy lucky and they get used to this to the point where they just text back thanks dad like it's a really thoughtful yeah I did good job you have no idea what I just gave you and then and then same thing with our son is a five minute call yesterday I'm just like, dude, I see how much you're holding and taking. I just really appreciate that.

And I see, like, I'm proud of you. My kids change the moment I start speaking life into them that way. And with Bertie James, it's like, hey, sweetie, I saw that you were, you didn't hit your sister when you got really disregulated. Good job. Like, I see you having self-control. And she's like, whatever. She's got a lot of unique dynamics. And for each of them, it's their own thing.

But I would say if you're like a tangible person, like, how do you change the temperature of your home? Do that. apply that to your marriage just pick one or two things like i love this about you today really does far more than we know dude i love that i was thinking sean i don't know if you've done this consciously or not but uh instead of saying why don't you do this or that she recently has been saying hey i i really love it when you do this and the whole tone is like so different now it's a challenge now you're like i got to do it i want to do it and it's like i don't feel bad or like annoyed or like don't talk to me like that you're not my

mom or you know what I'm saying it's like oh wow yeah actually she's I can help her out and it's fun and I was also my uh my four-year-old joins me in the gym every day at 530 which is hilarious are you serious you talking about how your kids call you god bless you he'll come in bed I cannot get the kid to sleep at 530 oh my gosh on Sundays I don't work out and he'll come down he comes to my bed while I'm still asleep he whispers in my ear dad why aren't you working out oh my geez dude my four-year-old did we do this or is this genetic is this what is this nature or nurture what's happening but something something came up this morning and i was actually thinking about like like noz arc and how he got tasks wait adam to name everything yeah and it was like i was fascinated because

a lot of times there's more than one name that you could give something you know what i'm saying like sean depending on the situation or how our relationship dynamics are it's like hey this is Sean, which is appropriate, certainly, and sometimes, or it could be like, this is my darling wife. And it's like the whole interpretation of that is interesting. And it's like with our kids, to your point, like speaking life into them, they are probably both things. Like everything is.

It has the good and the bad. Like, Sean is simultaneously the most thoughtful, amazing, incredible wife that I could ask for. And that's it. Actually, you're the only one. And that's all that. I think is sentence like with end. But it's great.

But it's like, what a beautiful challenge that I think, honestly, Christianity and the whole identity of who God calls us to be biblically and like, man, we're made in his image. Like, we all have the good things. And it's like, do we have the patience, the wherewithal, the awareness to acknowledge that? And like, I guess be able to share that freely. It's a good challenge for me, certainly. but yeah the the space of a father and a mother speaking life to their kids it is it is the difference maker and and i would also like to say this you guys know this you roll in all sorts of different

spaces meaning you are in and out of all sorts of different cultures right in the sense of space and physical space but also just social cultures too and what we've seen which has been honestly really devastating to our generation is there's a whole generation that has lost the ability to be curious about other people's lives and not talk about themselves. And we find it so disheartening. And what I mean by that is like, I don't need everybody to know about me.

But man, do I feel different when someone goes? So what's your story? And then when they listen to it, they're like, what are you passionate about? You know, like when they ask questions, it seems so minor. But culturally, like if we can teach our kids, like be curious about other people's stories,

you'll have your moment to share about your story, right? But culturally, when we can do that with our kids, it's both a blessing and a curse because we're doing that with our kids to an extent, and what we've found is that because the culture doesn't move that space, they're like, no one ever asked us questions either. We're like, yeah, we know. So here's how you hold that, you know.

But I think if we can get to the space, when you speak life to your kids and then they're confident and then you're able to just be curious in other people's stories, like there's nothing. And if you want to talk about, like, how do you talk with really powerful people and leaders? Like, just ask them a bunch of questions about them. Or your 16-year-old trying to get a girlfriend?

Like, dude, that's a freaking game right there. If you go on a date and you're asking questions, you lock it down. Well, we try to tell him about getting a job. I told them, I was like, here's a couple key words that anyone in my generation is really going to appreciate. I'm a hard worker. I show up on time. Shake his hand and look him in the eyes. If it's a guy or a girl, whatever, like, just do that.

He went in. He sent the application, like, I think a couple days before. He walked in, met the manager, did what I said, and he goes, and the manager goes, hey, can you sit down for an interview right now? And he's like, sure, yeah, I got nothing going on. And so he sits down and he asks him a couple questions, like, well, sir, I've never had a job, but I'm a hard worker. He's my background, and I'll get anything done.

I'll be here on time. I'll make you proud. Do you know that kind of stuff? He's like, you want the job? He's like, sure. Can you start tomorrow? Can you start tomorrow? So I all to say, like, I think there's a secret that a blessing that we are giving our kids

And even for any adult listening, like, nobody really cares about you as much as you do. And when we take a second to just recognize, like, when we're generous with our words and we're kind and we speak life and we ask questions, I mean, it is the most important. It's like such an important gift. And I keep finding in our culture and our moment, like, that is the difference. When I meet, we get to meet so many people. when I meet people, and they tell me all about their life, it's like, cool. And then I have nothing, but I don't, you know, I can't really even, you know, there's so many moments where I can't even ask questions.

I'm just like, okay, you did a lot of cool stuff. I got it, right? So I think when we can speak life, it's huge. And oftentimes those people, it's because they haven't had somebody be really interested in them or speak life over them as a little kid and call out all the things that they see in them that are the attributes of God that are beautiful things. oftentimes it's those people are starved for that we live in a culture starved for that and so if we can give that to our kids young and then teach them to give that to other people huge well I was just

going to say because I love how practical you both are because I'm all like in the arena of marriage and family stuff there's nothing worse than theories like here's a nice thought you're like no it's all so we talk about you know anytime we speak or anytime we write it's all like yeah here's the idea but like here's the gritty here's how it works really in real time. So practically one thing we started doing is we just, we won't say anything good behind somebody's back without telling them.

So if we're sitting, I mean, how often are you guys talking about somebody? You're like, this person's, like they're so rad. Like, I was just so encouraged. That usually doesn't make it to that person. Now, that's not because you're, you know, intending to do that. But we just made this pact,

like whenever we're talking good about somebody, we tell them. So we either literally pick up the phone or we voice memo. We love voice memos. We're voice memo. That's crazy to me, but I saw it. Yeah, I know.

I know. It's effective in certain environments. There's a different type. It's fine. Some of us are athletes and some of us are not, right? We all have our things. So I think that that idea of like just sending a voice memo of like, hey, we said this about you. We just want you to know this is what we think. It is astounding what that can do for people. I love that. I also want to thank you while we're here in person because your intentional father podcast with JDA. Yeah. He's been on the show, right? He's been on the show. Yeah. He loves him. but someone sent me one of the episodes that I had not yet listened to big fan of the show by the way but it was about the soul friends yes and so

now we started like a little soul friends group and it's been great oh yeah we got like a Thursday night meeting and it's been awesome so thank you that is what's so cool about this we've been hearing this like all over the country little like these little moments like this like we have no idea

dude that's so encouraging thank you for all the good you guys put out there that almost makes me emotional because there's a space where it's like fatherhood is so hard. And I mean, truly the thing that is the difference maker for me is a strong wife. I thank God for that because she's, I'm strong-willed and God knew I needed somebody

who was pretty tough to help me snap out of some of the realities of my own depravity. But I think it's the men that I've been able to talk to that don't shame, they build up, they're wise, they're like wanting to do that journey as well. that has been the difference maker. So if there's a dude listening, I think get a soul friend community

and simply all that means is like bring people into the fold where you can confess, you can be honest, you can be the realest version of yourself with them and let them call you up. Call you out, yeah, but call you up.

It's not about calling you out. It's about making you a better dude. Yeah. And we put it on the schedule though. So it's locked in. It's playing. Is it every Thursday? Or every other third?

Like, what's the schedule? It's Thursday night after the kids go down. So yeah. Yeah, and we'll just go watch Thursday night football and it's been good. But anyway, I appreciate you guys. This is all the touchy feel that we get enough cinnamon. You know, we are going to dominate pickleball. It's true.

We got a little event happening, yeah, this Thursday. There's a lot of pickleball happen. I'm a little scared because the people that are coming to this event are quite athletic and very excited about pickleball. And I'm like kind of neutral about the idea, so I'm going to get squashed. Dude, you got to get the dump. Who did he pick? We don't have to put this on it. But who did he pick for his...

You're talking about Bethke? Yeah. No, dude, he freaking rigged it. He got literally a college tennis player, but I'm going to dominate. I think we need to keep this on. Just keep this on. Bethke, I'm coming for you. You are going down.

Seriously, thank you for this. This is a gift. Thank you for saying that. We do divos every morning, like marriage. Yeah. But being able to have something like this, where it's part of a rhythm and routine that you can so easily do. even putting our kids to bed every night I'm like I need to be praying for them out loud

but then you get you're like put your jammies on and like get in bed this is amazing I thought we were done with the touchy-feely no we were done oh touchy-feel I mean if you don't feel thanks for the time guys

yeah thank you guys thank you guys