Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - The Truth About Faith, Loss, Music & Purpose | Granger & Amber Smith

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Amber and Granger Smith join us for one of the most honest conversations we've ever had. We talk about Granger's journey from country music to ministry, Amber's perspective through every season, the heartbreaking loss they've openly shared with the world, and how their faith has shaped the way they continue moving forward. We also dive into: • Granger's transitioning from the stage to serving as a pastor • Marriage through life's biggest challenges • Raising a family in the public eye • What grief has taught them about hope • Their latest podcast and the conversations they're passionate about • Advice for anyone walking through hardship Whether you've followed Granger's music for years or recently discovered their ministry and podcast, this conversation offers encouragement, wisdom, and an honest look at finding purpose through every season of life. If this episode encouraged you, be sure to like, subscribe, and share it with someone who could use a little hope today. https://arisewithamber.com/pages/our-family-story https://www.instagram.com/amberemilysmith/?hl=en https://open.spotify.com/episode/2yZ813twuMVn02b6pNalpQ https://www.instagram.com/grangersmith/?hl=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things, interviews. With Sean and Andrew. Today we have another lovely couple in the country music world. Not any longer, though, because he's now in the pastor world. That's right. It is Amber and Granger Smith. I feel like this interview was a long time in the making. Granger and I share a mutual friend who's been trying to connect us for a long time. Anyway, after our conversation, I see that Granger has a ton of wisdom and I have a lot to learn from him, so now I know why my mutual friend wanted us to meet. But yeah, Granger has a super fascinating story. They have a lot of sad moments in life that they've publicly shared what they've learned from. And I appreciate their transparency. I appreciate how they've

navigated through different moments that you'll hear about in this interview. And I appreciate all the stuff he puts out books, songs. He is a podcast. Really just an impressive family. And if you want to know what they're up to, then we'll link their information down below. but without further ado, Amber and Granger Smith. Granger and Amber Smith. Welcome to the show. Thank you guys. Yeah, thanks.

We were just talking. I feel like this interview has been a long time coming, but I'm very excited to talk to you all. Your story is amazing. The way you steward your story is amazing. I want to start, if you don't mind, by talking about how you two met. Would you mind sharing that story? Go ahead, Ben. No, no, no, no.

He always makes me share. No, when we do these things together, I love to hear you, start. Well, we've been married for 15 years now, but we met actually on the set of his first music video that he was doing when he was doing music and singing and songwriting, and they were looking for a love interest to play his girlfriend in the music video shoot. So they went through a round of auditions and they picked a girl. And then when he got home, he decided that he didn't feel good about that. And so he just went online. My picture popped up in the people you may know tab on Facebook. Wow. Throwback. He tells me that he decided that's the girl. So I went through an audition

process, played the love interest. And then I married him. Dang. Amazing. But you didn't even have any interest in like you weren't like in the process to begin with. It was just from Facebook that you got connected. I was. I was acting part time. So I don't even know if you knew that though. No, not until you told me in the first message. So, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't weird for me because I was already doing music videos and commercials and stuff a long time ago. Dan, it's kind of like your own little version of Bachelorette or Bacheloretn't at Granger. Yeah. Kind of just like, here's a candidate.

Wait, I'm curious, though, when you became like the love interest in this music video, was there already chemistry or was this like a first date, a blind date? I'll let you answer that again. Both. I felt chemistry that I wasn't expecting to feel. I wrote about it in the book, like, right whenever I met him and I saw him and I met our eyes met and he smiled, I just felt something. I was like, well, that was weird. I wasn't expecting that. And then we were together all day, you know, pretending to be in love. And when I left that night, I had a girlfriend with me and I was like, I have to see him again. And she tried to make me think that I was crazy, that we were just, anyone that had acted like that all day would think that they liked that person. But I knew

I had to see him again. So was that 17 years ago? February night. February. Is that right? That's actually a really fascinating thought. If you act like you love somebody, you actually will end up liking them, you know?

It's like, yeah. We should probably do that more in our marriage. Yeah. You know? That's true. Like maybe she just act like. What are you saying? I'm saying,

wow. Okay. So you guys have been married 15 years. So after. going back the timeline, you met on set. How long before you got engaged? Was it a quick turnaround? It was set six or seven months.

February to September. From when we met, we got engaged. Yeah. Fun fact for you guys, just because I think it blew our minds. We interviewed a couple yesterday who met in four weeks later. Yeah. Four weeks later, long distance. So they had gone on four dates.

We're engaged. And then married and had a first kid within a year. I was like, that is impressive. Yeah, that's incredible. The older I get, the less crazy those stories are. Yeah. You're like, yeah, I mean, that's just kind of, that's what you got to do. You shoot your shot, man.

Yeah, I tell guys, what are you waiting on? Yeah. Long engagements are worthless. So, Granger, we are very familiar with your music and such a fan. But you have recently had a transition of, like, Like you, you stopped touring and you went into ministry. Yeah. How was that transition and how has the new career path been?

I left music two years ago and some change in August of 23. And stepped away from it completely because I, well, there were several reasons. One, the Lord just rearranged my desires and a lot of things didn't feel meaningful in music for me anymore like they used to. So I just felt like I was wasting time, kind of just creating a party for people over and over. And I'd done it for 24 years. And then I also felt just an urgency for ministry. I just suddenly became more and more aware. of the brevity of life and that I didn't have, you know, what I have, at max, I have three decades left, I would say, you know, something like that, maybe a little more. And at max, and very likely less than that. And it just kind of occurred to me that, that I needed to be, my time needed to be concentrated in ministry because I had such a desire for it. The Lord gave me that desire. But, but.

But then the other side of it is there was sin involved with me. I was, I was, it was kind of perpetuating pride for me. It was, it was cultivating a sinful pride for me. The more and more I realized that going out, going out on the stage was really just me needing applause. In some way, I could say it that way. Yeah. How do you all view what you do collectively? So you each have now written books. You create a lot of different content. Is it, hey, we are in ministry together or we're like authors or we're influencers or how do you, podcasters? What title do you give yourself and why? I'm a pastor first

and I think and then everything else is kind of secondary. It's definitely secondary. pastor in the local church is it's the top of ministry of what I do and everything else is kind of overflows from that like the books that I write are really overflows from that would you say yeah I would say I'm only newly an author I didn't set out to be an author I'm only an author because the Lord flipped our lives upside down and and we wanted to help other people through our story I think I'm first his wife and then mother to children and he's a pastor now so now I am a pastor's wife and so I would say we're in ministry together I am his helper and I help him and and he leads us and it's just kind of been wherever

the Lord is leaving us to go we just say we're here wherever you want us to go so I don't know that I have a title for it other than Christ follower or wife and mom and then anything else just falls into yeah every Christian's in ministry yeah so you know we have the ministry of reconciliation and and we God makes his appeal through us the Bible says that we we God makes his appeal through us so we tell people be reconciled to Christ that's our that's everyone's ministry everyone everyone that's a believer and my first three disciples are here live in this house they're kind of miniature so that my my first my first level of discipleship starts right here yeah some of the hardest discipleship ever though even our little's who

ask us questions that feel so basic, but they're so difficult to answer sometimes. And I remember putting our four-year-old to sleep the other night, something he really needed to grasp in his mind is, is God stronger than Daddy? And I said, no, son. No. Yeah. I'm kidding. Great, great. But it's, it is the discipleship to like the little's is so fun, and it's so sweet and so sincere. It's, it puts a smile on your face. Yeah, it's fun. Do you still do much acting, Amber, or no? Not really anymore.

I kind of stepped away from that whenever I started having kiddos just because traveling for auditions and those kinds of things is difficult. But also just the roles that I was getting didn't align with my faith and our marriage and things. So I just kind of stepped away from that for now. How was the process of writing the book for you? It was a mix of emotions. It was really difficult.

I didn't think that I could do it at first. But then I just prayed really hard that the Lord would help me and give me the words. And it was healing. It was hard. I cried a lot. It's very difficult with three little kids at home who need me all the time to find space to do that. But I'm really happy with how it turned out. And I think I could edit it until I die.

I just had to kind of be finished and put it out into the world. But I'm grateful that I was able to do it. You said healing and, difficult processing the emotions. What was it that you were putting on paper, potentially for the first time, that made it difficult? I think just remembering lots of the details about a lot of the traumatic things that we went through. Very painful parts made me emotional and then the very joyful parts in what the Lord has done

and where our family is and how he has healed so much of our hearts and how our children are in a good place. And so it's just this beautiful story of grief and joy. And I felt all of it. I had tears of sadness, but also tears of joy for what God has done not only in our lives, but our marriage and our children and how he's using us in some small way to try to bring hope to other people. I would love, if you guys are open to it, to go down that grief journey healing and ask questions there because I've had friends before I told Andrew that. I told Andrew this who even in a Bible study I had a friend who lost a mom who was kind of new to the Christian faith and so she had a lot of beautiful questions but the thing that she struggled with was

how can I still find joy in such pain and my question to you guys is especially in the ministry world how have you guys navigated that in one of the largest heartbreaks anybody in life can go through and also if you don't mind sharing the specific like the the traumatic events to whatever amount you're capable of just so our audience is familiar. Yeah. This is your, this is your, this is your, this is your, okay. So, yes, um, as I said, Granger, I've been married for 15 years and we had a really, really good marriage.

We, our life was, quote, worldly good. Um, he was touring. He was, um, selling out arenas. He, he, he had a good career. We, we were happy. We had three healthy kids. I didn't grow up in a Christian home. So I had just the year before we lost our son started seeking the Lord, started going to Bible studies, and going to church for the first time of my life and reading devotionals.

And right then, about a year into that is when we lost our son river to a drowning in our backyard. And as you can imagine, as a mom and a dad, I mean, it flipped our world upside down. And we didn't know if our family would survive, if our marriage would survive, if we would ever find joy again. And so we just navigated that grief and pain together very differently. We both grieved very differently. Our children grieved very differently. But I think because I had just started to have a little, a small foundation in going to church and reading devotionals and things, I had little bits and pieces of scripture in my heart. So when I was on that bathroom floor crying and grieving so hard, I knew that I didn't want to stay there.

I had a husband and I had two other children who needed me. So I ran to the Lord and I searched for light and I searched for hope. And I think my train, I mean, this is a whole process, obviously, like a six-year process, but about eight months into our grief, we started reading the Word of God together. We started reading our Bibles for the first time in our late 30s. And we read through the entire Bible. And I cried every day. I prayed every day for the Lord to reveal himself to me to show me that there was purpose

in this pain to help me to have strength to be a good wife and a good mom when I didn't understand and it was really messy and difficult, but as the scriptures say, he will reveal himself to you. And he began showing me who he was throughout the scriptures. He began showing me that nothing happens outside of his control and that while the worst things that can happen in this world sometimes are for the good of his people. I mean, we only have to look to the cross for that. The worst thing to happen in the history of humanity, the death of Jesus, was for the the good of us, was for the salvation of us. And so he just showed me how he worked through people throughout scripture to heal them, to refine them, to shape them and mold them into the image of

Christ. And so I was able, by knowing who God is, as he reveals himself to be in Scripture, I was able to have joy. I was able to have hope. I was able to have peace, even though I was still grieving. There's a scripture that says, we're sorrowful yet always rejoicing. And so I'm still sorrowful. I still miss my son, but I am always rejoicing that this is not our only home, that God is working all things out, and I have joy because the joy of the Lord is my strength. So I don't know if that answered your question at all, but it did. I just. Is grief a bad thing in your perspective, or how do you view it?

I think we should always think that the things of this world, death, sin, sickness, All of that are not good things. That's not how the Lord intended this world to be. So we should grieve these things. We should hate these things. You know, Jesus wept. Jesus came back to defeat, you know, Jesus came to defeat, hell, death, and the grave. And so we should look at these things not as we don't delight in them.

But I can see now with new eyes that they can also purify us. and they can also show us what we're made of. They can deepen our faith. They can strengthen your marriage. They can strengthen your trust in the Lord. So while they are like death is the greatest enemy, it's also what has led us to the Lord. And so that's a good thing.

I hate that we lost our son. I hate the trauma that we've had to go through. But it's also brought us to saving faith in him. And so in that there is goodness. And it's hard to think that those two things can run parallel. So we don't, I don't love grief. I don't, I don't love trauma, but it has saved us. Granger, I'm going to pull you out here.

You got to answer one. When it comes to grief, and specifically within marriage, it can be a place where the enemy just runs wild. You can have, you can choose a path. It's either you can let it break a marriage or you can let it build a marriage. as you reflect back on the journey you guys have been on processing this grief together and the loss together, how have you guys been able to build your marriage now stronger and heal through it rather than going down that path of it broke our family, it broke our marriage, it broke our community? Yeah, it's just not something I did. The Lord did it, but it happens through seeking

him because if I were if I were to seek Amber in grief or she was to seek me, we're going to let each other down. And because because everyone grieves differently and you know, you could be in a different stage of grief and you try to, if I would try to rely on her and she's kind of absent, then then I would fall deeper into despair and vice versa. But when I think when we truly started seeking God as he's revealed himself in the Bible. Bible and recognizing who he is and then therefore who we are in light of who he is and our need for him, not because he's going to save us from our from ourselves or from our our sin or from the devil or from our heartbreak, but essentially because he's saving us from the wrath of God himself for his glory by his son through our faith. And the more I could look to him and see myself in light of him as redeemed and restored and forgiven and adopted as a son, co-air of the kingdom. And then I could look to her and I could recognize what she is to me and the gift that she is.

And I could love her not because of her perfections, but actually because of her insecurities and because of her weakness, I could love her. and she could love me in the same way, not because we're doing good for each other, but because of the gift that the Lord has given us as helpers for each other. And that's what strengthened our marriage. Yeah. It's interesting. We were talking recently about trauma and how everyone goes through trauma, no matter what it looks like.

And I don't think it's helpful in any way to equate or compare or try to parallel. people's trauma, but if everyone goes through it, then I think it's fair to say that at some point we'll all go through some period of grief and like this emotional distraughtness of desperation maybe is a close word, but I've, I lost my dad two years ago and it was like out of the, out of the blue out of nowhere. And it just struck me how grief is so difficult, you know, And it's like you don't really seek it out or desire it. But when wrapped in the hope of Jesus, it actually becomes like a really beautiful thing where you're like, all right, I'm not desperate or I'm not in this point of like being so lost. I don't know what to do next.

There is a next step to do, which is like, how can I give this up to the Lord or, or I. how can I honor other people or, you know, or the Lord in this? And I came across this concept of like a fire follower plants where when there's like forest fires, there's certain plants whose seeds will just wait dormant in like the soil. And it's not until there's like this intense flame that destroys a lot of other things that these seeds are able to germinate and come to life. And then like there's something, that's kind of like an interesting representation of what Christ allows

despite the wreckage that might be around us. Anyway, that's just more of a thought. I don't know if you guys resonate with that or I feel like you experience that or you might use different terms to be helpful to listeners who might not conceptualize that well. Yeah, you know, essentially what you're saying

is that Christians grieve with hope. is what the Bible says. We don't grieve as those with no hope. Because grieving with no hope is leads to despair and depression and grieving with hope is it's not that we are not sad, but it's that we coexist with joy so that so that we're with the joy of the Lord, we we grieve, but we have we're promised that this, first of all, that this life is not our only life. And this one is a vapor. And so

we will all suffer. And Amber and I have much more suffering to do. And so we all. And so does anybody listening. No one's going to make it through life without some extreme grief. Yeah. But in the Lord's Providence,

that that is also ultimately what refines us. And that's what you're saying about the seeds in the fire. Because no one has a favorite movie that doesn't have a bad guy in it. No one has a favorite book that doesn't have a dramatic plot, that there's restoration back to the good. That's why we like stories. And so without that, without that fire, as you were saying, to refine us,

or for the seed to die and and and for life to for fruit to come from the death. Yeah. Then we have no hope. And then we don't. There's an element of God getting glory through that suffering. So yeah, all of that connects. What are you going to say? I was trying to look up.

Sorry, if you'll see me looking down. I was looking for a scripture. It kind of reminded me of what you were saying about the seed. And in John 1224, it says, truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. And I think so often things have to die in order for that. I mean, I always think of a dandelion because it's the beautiful yellow flower at first, but that yellow flower has to die before it has that beautiful white puff that we blow into the wind that spread seeds to grow many, many more plants. And so, you know, Jesus,

Jesus's broken body was broken for us so that we could have life. So there's so many things in life where we had to die to ourselves to grow in our faith and in our marriage. And another thing I was thinking about when you were saying about the fire is, I'm sure you guys know what controlled burns are, right? Well, the controlled burns have purposes. Like you can look and think, oh, my gosh, that's horrible. They're burning down all of this stuff, but those things have purposes to grow and to have more vegetation.

So sometimes we have to go through really, really difficult things for beautiful things to come out of that that we just can't see. and God is doing so much more in our lives than we are ever, ever aware of. There's a pastor John Piper says, God is always doing 10,000 things in your life, and you're only aware of about three of them. And so I think so often we can think, why me, God, why is this happening to me?

But if we could all shift our perspective to what, what can I do, Lord, how can I serve others? How can I glorify you in this? So just having you shift a perspective. I just love that. because at the end of the day, it's a choice. And like, you could think of, well, why should I even have a controlled burn in my life? Like, why do I, why does anything in my life need to burn in the first place?

And it's like, well, you could choose that perspective or you could say, and I think this is what Christianity, a side effect of believing in Jesus does is like say, no, this is actually for purpose. And it, like, totally flips the script on how you view it as like a, hey, what the is going on and why does this happening to actually this this might be good or hey maybe there are 10,000 things and maybe I'm only seeing three is such a different perspective than I got nothing good going on right now you know I got no there's nothing and it's just like same same reality different perspective uh which then leads to a totally different reality so I don't know I find that so

fascinating. Thank you guys for embodying that. It's really beautiful. Thank you. I was going to say you guys have been pretty open with your story. You've shared it with the world. And I think with your story and kind of following your journey and our career transitions and then your family, what has been really beautiful is you haven't shied away from showing grief and pain, which I do feel like a lot of the world tries to hide. It's either we're good, we're fine. we're healing or it's only grief and only despair. But I think the human nature that you guys have shown of the journey of it is really inspiring.

It shows people there is actual hope to have. And with that, you've grown your platform even more, though transitioning more into ministry. You have your podcast, you're writing your books. you're sharing a story in a very beautiful way that people can relate to and feel like they can bring hope from. What inspired the podcast? And did you guys ever shy away from sharing all of this with the world in such a public way? Why lean into it?

So as we were leaving the hospital, we were leaving the hospital without our son. And we had started a family YouTube channel and we had been recording all of our videos and everything. And he had a moment in the car where I think he put, you did put everything on private. Like he took everything down. He's like, we're done, we're done. We need to just heal.

And then we just had this moment of, well, that does nothing. That doesn't help anyone else. We, this is real life, really hard things happen. And we have an opportunity to be open and honest and vulnerable about something really hard that millions of people are going through. loss and grief. And so we just decided, okay, we're going to just be honest and vulnerable. And I think I started in my closet just crying and talking about my feelings. And then it was this slow walk through my faith journey, which then led to the Arise with Amber podcast, which then yours, you started answering questions, but then they began to turn more faith-based, I guess. But I think, I think just the realization that we just wanted to let people know that they are not alone. And, really hard things happen, but that there is hope. And you know, you said, you said something about how it could either be all mask and everything's fine or all grief. And grief can sadly become your

identity and an idol in your life. And so we just wanted to go kind of somewhere in the middle of, well, truly in the middle of, yeah, we're grieving, but there is hope. And you don't have to stay stuck in that dark place. And that doesn't have to become your identity. Well, say more about that grief being your identity part. I'm curious. I think people, we meet a lot of people who have lost children and 25, 30 years down the line, they still can't function. They still can't go to work. They still cry every single day.

And it's okay to have grief and be sad. Like, yes, that's your child. That's a part of your family. But to be stuck in that way, it's almost like they have just become the woman who lost a child. And that's all they are anymore. And yes, we lost a son. but that's not who we are. And so I think people get stuck in, well, I'm the one who lost this or I'm the one who

my marriage fell apart or I'm the one who lost a job and that just becomes their identity. And I think anything can, anything like that can become an idol where that's all you focus on and it's always woe is me and there's no turning to look to Jesus or to hope. It's just kind of a victim mentality instead of a victor mentality, I guess. And then if I can chime in here, can you say, speak on the opposite side where people do try to mask because they're too afraid to let any grief in. How do you find the middle? I think that's hard. That's hard too because it will catch up to you. If you are holding everything

in, if you're not releasing anything, if you're acting like everything is perfect, it will all come crashing down someday. And it takes a toll on your body. I mean, grief can affect your organs and your health and all kinds of things. So that's, yeah, I would say that's obviously not a good way to go either. Wow. Was the book cathartic in any way writing it, just like reflecting in that way? Or I'm sure it was incredibly difficult to like talk about this topic and then here you are doing a podcast on this topic and you're always kind of circling around it. What's what's that whole experience like? I think it's getting more and more cathartic as the days and the years go on. It was very cathartic to write, but even a few years ago when we started going out and speaking,

it's healing. Every time I go out and speak and get to talk to other families who are grieving, it heals a little bit of my heart as well. And it's gone from me getting up and speaking or writing and crying the whole time to crying over the loss of my son to crying over the goodness of God. And so it's been this beautiful shift of not so much crying over sadness and grief, but crying over how good God. is and how I want to tell everyone about him. So it's been this really neat shift. This is the greatest season we've ever, I bet I've ever had. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. I didn't mean to cut you off. If you could take and give three little habits or rhythms or words of advice for navigating grief with kids, what would those be? And how are your kiddos doing?

They're doing so well, better than I could have ever hoped. I mean, you don't know when you go through something like that if they're going to be scarred for life. And I would say the things that I don't know if they're perfect or right, but they were what worked for us is one, we let our children, we let them know that any emotion they felt is okay. Whether they were joyful or whether they were sad or whether they were mad, every emotion they feel is okay. It's so hard to navigate grief at such a young age. Number two, I think we let them see us grieve. They didn't see me curled up on the floor crying like I did a lot by myself, but they saw me cry. They saw Mommy and Daddy sad.

And we talked them through that and didn't act like everything was okay and we're going to put on a happy face. We said, no, this life is really hard. It's not the way that the world is supposed to be. We're going to be sad some days, but we're going to be okay. And Mommy and Daddy are staying together. We're going to fight through this together. and we can make it through anything together and with our eyes on the Lord. We did put them in therapy, so that's helpful for little kids going through grief.

And we also just kept our son very much a part of our lives. We kept photos up. We talked about him all the time. We let the kids play with his toys. We didn't, we let them say his name. I've heard from so many families who, in their grief, the parents would close the door. They were never allowed to mention their brother or sister. They took down all the photos almost as if they didn't exist because it was too hard.

And then children can't grieve that, that loss and that pain. So I would, are those, would you say, are the three maybe that we did for the kids? And obviously going to church and studying the word. It's been such a long time since we've like thought, thought through that. Because the kids are so great. And they talk about them now. Yeah. Now it's just directing them to the Lord.

That's all they do now. It's interesting the rule of not allowing any discussion around the lost one. My initial reaction is like, wow, that's crazy. And then when I think about it a little longer, I'm like, I totally get that. And then, yeah, it's just like this interesting, what do you do with this elephant in the room? I don't know. And it's so painful. But is it best to, is it best?

to just like all collectively think about this or try to all shove it out of our collective memory. I don't know. It's like it's it's interesting. I empathize with people who might make that decision. I'm just thinking about we have three young kids. I've been in tears all morning because our oldest is six and she's our only girl and it's her birthday today. It's just been wrecking me. And it's like I was thinking back before we had kids and people ask like, oh, do you want kids? yeah do you want it to be a boy or girl yeah well I would like a I would like a boy do you think you're going to let him play football sure I'll let him play football or you're going to let him do gymnastics it's like and then you have a kid and you realize how hilarious hilarious that whole conversation is of thinking you have any control over whether you can even get pregnant or whether it's going to be a big boy or girl or what their interests are going to be it is such like a I don't know

here you go I'm just going to try to like enjoy the ride and I'm not in control of any of it. But I'm curious with your other kids, we've seen with parents who might have children with disabilities, there kind of be this effect of, hey, that kid takes so many of the mental resources, controls a lot of the conversation. Obviously, like, kind of, it's part of the family identity. How do you, with your kids, kind of navigate the, that side of things, having them having lost a sibling where it's like, hey, I'm still here and I have my own stuff going on. And like, is there a balance there that you try to pursue or what? I see right now that's like zero concern.

Yeah, we haven't had to. Like that, yeah, they have their own lives. And I don't think that that's ever a thought. I don't know that they ever felt like. And maybe I don't know how they're going to feel as they grow up. and what they're going to remember, but I don't know if they ever felt because they were so little, if they ever felt like they were second fiddle to rivers passing. I tried to, we tried to be really, I would get up in the morning before they woke up and I would

cry and grieved by myself so I could be fully present with them whenever they woke up. So I can't speak to the fact of a brain injured child or a child with disabilities. I have friends who are navigating that, and they do have other children who feel that, that this one child is taking away so much from them and they're feeling neglected. And so we haven't had to personally deal with that. And I know that that has to be such a struggle for them. And I pray with them and cry with them. But we haven't really had to navigate that in our own family.

You guys said this is the best season of life you've been in yet, which is incredible. Yay. Why is that? What are you guys excited about and what are you working on? Well, the age of the kids is awesome right now. They're just all so fun and so unique in their own way. This morning I had, I have a breakfast date with the kids. Every other Wednesday we switch off.

So today was my daughter, London. And just to hear her interest, like she's 14 now. And she's studying Islam in school. And so she always wanted to be a vet. And now she's thinking about studying theology. She's wanting to ask me about my trips to Pakistan or Iraq or Dubai or, you know, like all the Islamic countries that have done missions in. And she's so interested in that.

We'll be in Cuba in a couple weeks, which now is that trip's looking very different because of the aftermath of this hurricane that's there right now. And Lincoln will be going with us for the first time. So we're all just so close in that aspect. Maverick just keeps us laughing constantly. He's the funniest kid ever. I'm home more than I ever have been in my life because I work from home now, either doing seminary or just working on whatever pastoral stuff I need to be doing. And so I'm always actually in this room.

And it's just a season that's just such a sweet season. we have never had that before. No, and I think before we lost our son, we were happy. We're like worldly happy with, you know, how his career was going and how our marriage was going. But it's like now that we've gone through the trauma of losing river and then a miscarriage and then other losses in our life. Like we truly see what's important and what matters. And we have joy from the inside out.

And so we're not just happy anymore. It's like we're truly joyful. And we're so thankful for this season. It's like a season of reprieve and rest from chaos and pain that we were going through for so long. So I know that we hopefully have a lot of life left to live and we're going to suffer again. Yeah, seasons will change. Seasons will change. But right now it's a sweet season.

And we love watching the kids grow. And I love watching him pastor and preach. And it's been a sweet time for me to be home with the kids. So it's just a just a joyful season right now. Yeah. How seminary going, Granger? I just I'm one of the guys that loves it I just love it I'm in uh it's about to be my fourth year and um yeah and I've loved I've loved all the different seasons of of seminary and then

and then being able to think through those things with our members at our church daily you know here in an hour I'm going to go to another it's like lots of coffees and lunches and seeing that stuff play out and just kind of walking alongside people. It's definitely a long game, which is why I tried to get away from this much. I used to go speak a lot and I'm kind of getting away from that because it's harder for me to go and give a message and leave and then think about the people I just left. And so here in our local church, both of us, I think, because she's very involved in our women's ministry. It's a long game of walking the weeks and months and years out with people and through

whatever trials or joys that are going on their lives. And it's just, yeah, it's, that adds to the sweetness of this season for sure. Wow. Speaking of a 14-year-old girl, that age, I don't know why, scares me so much. Yeah, it should probably. Yeah. Everybody says that. Everybody says that.

Everybody's like, you know, you get the people that try to scare you to death. Oh, the teenagers are awful. They're the worst. And it's honestly, it doesn't have to be that way. Like, yes, there are scary things we have to navigate and we're trying to protect them as much as we can. Yeah. But London, she's just a sweet girl. She still loves us.

She still wants to be here with us. Amazing. But sometimes she just cries for no reason. And he was like, I don't know what to do with that. Yep. I mean, that already happens. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like I'm crying, but I don't even know why I'm crying. Yeah, you're right. It does happen at six as well. It happens. It's happened her whole life. But, you know, she's, she can think. She's so smart. She's brilliant in so many things.

And then yet, and sometimes I'm like, why are you, why can you not tell me why your emotions are stirring you? Like, because you can't even explain it. I don't know. And then Tim, she's like, I'm so sorry, Daddy. I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds about right.

Welcome to our life. It's so confusing. Yeah. I'm curious if you guys could think about the habits and routines that you all had that have stayed true no matter if it's a season of grief or even a season like this that you're in now that's seemingly the best season you've been in. What is like your day-to-day or weekly routine look like? Are you guys still reading through the Bible? Do you guys wake up and do some type of exercise or what are the things that keep you going physically?

I don't ever, ever skip reading the Bible in the mornings. No matter where I am or what I'm doing, I don't think there's ever been a morning in at least six years that I haven't done that. And because, you know, the Bible says that that man cannot live on bread alone, but from every word that comes from the mouth of God. And 2 Timothy 316 says that all scripture is breathed out by God

and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training and righteousness, that the man of God may be complete equipped for every good work. And so if that's the case, then why wouldn't I do it every single day? So that's the most fundamental discipline that I have. And I know you do as well.

Yeah. But I also just crave it and love it and need it and dream about it. Yeah, he, every morning, you know, he gets up a little bit before me. He has this cup of coffee and he reads his Bible, obviously partly because, yes, he needs to read it to feast on the word of God. But it's also when the kids get up and for school in the morning, they see Daddy sitting there reading his Bible. And so it's impacting them. And so I try to get up with the kids, get the lunchboxes ready, try to help him have his quiet time to let him. him get ready for the day. And then I will read. I'm doing the McShane plan. We do the same plan,

but we're a little off on days. And I'll read whenever I can. It might be in the car. It might be before bed just because I'm constantly taking the kids everywhere. But I will read every day. But we also started something this past year where we do family worship. So in the morning, he'll just read from a short passage. We'll each pray through that passage. And then we'll sing. And so we do these short little scripture songs, super, super, I mean, Maverick does them because they're very short, but it gets us ready for the day. And then because he's home, now we get to have dinners together more often than we have before.

And then, I mean, yeah, physically he works out every day. I don't get a chance too much. But I guess those are like our practices that we get to implement that help us as a family. You a CrossFit guy or? No, I don't like crossfit people. I agree. I've just always done strength training and so I have not

I actually have nothing against CrossFit but yeah we have a set of it. Oh no, you can stand by it. I say the same thing. I don't like it either. All right, guys. That's how I feel about musicians, but we could

I guess you're not. I guess I can't. I feel about password. Yeah. I was a say. I feel the same way about musicians. I quit. Oh, man.

These guys are very weird musicians. What do y'all like to do at Texas? Like, you walk around wearing cowboy hats, ranching, or what's the vibe? Yeah, like throwing rope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, pretty much what we said on this podcast is like literally what we do.

It's what we do. Yeah. I will tell you at the very end of the day, When we get into bed at night, it is like the best thing ever. Yeah, it's the best. We like hop into bed. We can watch it like 30 minutes of a show. It's all the time that we have.

But we're just like made it through another day. This is the best time. We can just relax and breathe. Yeah, we're always going. We're pretty simple people. Yeah, but it's all good. Love it. Same with us.

I would say just to close out, it's my, I mean, we can keep talking. But if you could summarize. with this season of life that you're in and the great one. Just what's a word of hope or advice you would give? If I could summarize this season of life with an encouragement or hope to someone else. Yeah, that's difficult. That's difficult to give you something that's just profound and we're going to frame it and put it on the wall. It doesn't even know how to be profound.

I just think, I think especially... It's going to go right here, Granger. So it better be good. I don't like CrossFit people, Granger Smith, and then whatever you're about to say. I think I see it in the sense of like we've had this amazing conversation of like you guys have lived through a lot of things. And I think it is so beautiful for you to sit here and say we're in one of the greatest phases of life we've ever been in.

And I think that's such a powerful message. But now that you're in one of the greatest phases of life, what's a piece of advice you to give? I would say something very short and sweet and simple and sounds super cliche, but it is so true, is that life is hard, but God is good. Like, life is really hard. You're going to go through hard things, but God is good. And I would say whatever season that you're in right now, good or bad, it's not the end. You know, if you're in a really joyful season, there are going to come hard times.

If you're in a really hard season, that's not the end of your story. And to keep going and that you're not alone, there's just beautiful chapters in the story that God's writing for your life. And I would say to anyone who's in that bathroom for moment or in a dark season, just know that that's not the end. And don't stay stuck there. He's looking something up in the Bible. No, I was thinking about today because Psalm 19 was one of the chapters I was reading

this morning. And Psalm 197 says, the law of the Lord is perfect. Reviving the soul. Like, reviving the soul. It says, the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. And I thought about that for a long time this morning about reviving the soul, the law of the Lord. Or you could say that the word of God in replacement of the law. Or you could say Christ, Christ is the fulfillment of the law and the word.

So you could say Christ is perfect, reviving the soul. And the longer we meditate on an idea like that, the business of life and the you know, all the things that seemed to matter to us so much, you know, just like our life is much more refined now and definite. I don't travel that much. My life is really not that complicated, but I focus on the word of God because Christ is reviving to the soul. And I think that is the greatest explanation of why we're in a sweet season right now. Well, okay, just indulge me for a second and sell me on why that's important. I feel like, you know, why would I think about soul things when it's like, well, I'm concerned about, I'm concerned about my marriage or I'm

concerned about my kids. I'm concerned about my bank account or my job or my house or this problem. The soul feels like it should be last. You know what I'm saying? I got other, I got other things. I want to revive and think about. If you don't take care of your soul, all that other stuff is not going to be made well. John Piper says, the greatest gift you can give anyone in your life is the gift of your own holiness. So you have to first feed your soul so that you can then pour out into all those other things. So then your marriage can be healthy. So then your kids can have a healthy foundation. If we don't first take care of the soul, it's not so much of taking care of you, but it is feeding your soul, nourishing your soul, because you can't feed and pour into others

unless you are fed yourself. Can you talk more on that? Because, well, Grange, I'm excited for what you're about to say. But I'm also like, you know, this world of podcast is all self-help personal growth. So delineate. What? I'm a self-help crusher. Is it why?

So I'm more anti-self-help than I am. He's a guy to yourself. Yeah. I'm more anti-self-help than I am CrossFit. Wow, that's saying a lot, it seems. Wait, I feel like that makes two of you. You're super anti-self-help. I am.

But it's interesting because it's like a fine line of, okay, you have to maintain certain things about yourself to keep things in order, but it's not about like... But you have this exact argument. I'm going to debunk everything you're asking. I'm curious. I'm trying to get better verbs on it. Because you will literally say, I...

despise self-help because they're just trying to like revamp biblical theology and make it cool without the Christian side. They should just go to the Bible. Well, so let's do that. And so, Andrew, you asked earlier, I mean, you almost said word for word, Matthew 6, quoting Jesus from the sermon on the Mount when people would say like, well, what I've got billed and I've got my marriage and I've got the and Jesus would say therefore I tell you do not be anxious about your life what you will eat what you will drink nor about your body or what you put on is life is not life more than food and the body more than clothing look at the birds of the air they neither sow nor reap or gather into barns and yet your heavenly father feeds them are you not of more value than they and which of you by

being anxious could add a single hour to a span of life and why are you why are you anxious about clothing. Consider the lilies of the field, like you said with the dandelions, how they neither grow nor toil nor spend, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all of its glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so closed the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, oh, you of little faith? Therefore, do not be anxious saying, what shall we eat or what shall we drink or what shall we wear? For the Gentiles seek after such things and your Heavenly Father knows that you need them all, but seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you.

That's just, I mean, Jesus says it. Look to Him. Look to Christ exalted. Look at his work on the cross to forgive sinners and everything else flows from that. You look to the storm, you'll be afraid of the storm. Instead, look to the one who calms even the storm with a word. I'm curious. Go on the anti-self-help rant. Yeah. Granger.

Well, it's mainly because I was so into it before we lost Rive. And it did nothing for me. And, um. Well, and you kept trying it after we lost Rive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, I mean, if you, if you're running out to its most logical conclusion, say you want to say they're like a mentality about bench press. that what if every day you gained just a little bit, then in 10 years you could add up, you'd have this much. But in 15 years, you could have this much. In 20 years, you could have this much theoretically. But that's not counting age or, like, deterioration of the bones. I mean, self-help says that you just always will increase no matter what, essentially,

because it doesn't leave any room for human, weakness. And so certain people hear it and certain people say, challenge accepted. Let's do that. Like I'll go all in. I'll get up earlier. I could be the two percenter. Let me, let me work harder. Let me eat cleaner. Let me, let me study harder, you know, and, and ultimately all of that let you down in the end. Yeah, I just turned 34 and it's interesting. I, like, I had the realization that, man, all of my, like, strength PR might be in the rearview mirror. And then it's like, what am I, why did I prioritize this so much? It's such a decaying quality of like, I can work out for 10 straight years, never miss a day,

and then not work out for two weeks. And like, it's all for not. Well, so, I mean, at 34, to say that your best PR is behind you, then tell that to David Goggins. You know, the king of self-help, he would say you're, you're weak. And you said that's all mental. Like it's all in your mind. Well, and all of those things are good things. All that stuff, getting up early, working out, you know, meditating, reading things is all,

they're all good things. But what happens when if all you're focusing on is your weight training or something and then you have to get a leg amputated or something? Like what happens when that's all ripped away from you? Then what are you left with? Yeah. And so I think, you know, when we lost river, he was still into all that self-help, getting up early meditating, but that didn't stop the grief

and trauma that he was going through. It was kind of like a band-aid on a bullet hole. It's like those things are good, but they're not going to save you. But I will say that the Lord through that was preparing me. It's not all, it's not wasted because the Lord was preparing me for discipline in him, in his word. So like being able to study the word every day and saying, I will not skip. that's not foreign language to me.

You know, I'm used to saying things like that. But now it's it's recognizing my dependence on him and not my independence for myself. Yeah. Last thought. I'm curious to get your take, both your takes on is. So we're talking about reviving the soul partially. Differentiate that vocabulary and the underlying meaning from the positive vibrations or, the chakra or, you know, whatever, like the, it's maybe parallel terms that other people might

discuss. Why does it feel so much different when you, like, when I hear you say revive the soul, separate those from me? Yeah, separate the gibberish from the truth. There are things that are lasting and there's things that are temporal. And I've yet to find somebody that, well, I shouldn't say that because that, because I don't want to say anything that could actually be proven. I could be proven wrong. And because of somebody that could actually be doing some kind of, you know, Eastern meditation thing that's making them feel good temporarily. But ultimately, what we're looking at is not the temporary. We're looking at eternal.

We're looking at the words of eternal life. I remember Francis Chan a long time ago. I don't know why this came to me, but remember Francis Chan, there was like this weird illustration he did with a rope. He had a really, really long rope. At the very end of the rope, I mean, it was like extended,

it extended hundreds of feet. At the very end of the rope, he had a red ribbon. Like this big. Yeah, he had a red ribbon. It was like that long, you know. But the rest of the rope was like all the way. And he said,

this ribbon represents our life on this earth, our 80 years or whatever the Lord gives us. And we constantly think about that red ribbon. And it's normal. That would be natural to do that. But when we're thinking about reviving the soul, we're thinking about the rope, the rest of the rope. Because, and Andrew, I need to say this too, because these type of thoughts, I'm just I wasn't this kind of guy the Lord has the Lord when you look to him the Lord begins to sanctify your ideas because you could say well how do you not think about your the bills you have to pay right now how do you not I understand that because I used to be there but if you look if you're looking to the things eternal looking to Christ and it the craziest thing is how your desires to actually start to change and you stop thinking about so much about the temporal things in life.

We don't need a vacation in Mexico anymore. We would rather go do mission work somewhere. And it sounds crazy, but we would get more joy out of that now. So, yeah, when we're talking about reviving the soul, we're talking about eternal life. And abundant life today. Because Christ promised abundant life today. Yeah, it's interesting. I was just journaling yesterday because of our daughter's birthday. I was like so caught up in my feels thinking about the big picture. And then I was like, I was just kind of work through. There's got to be some balance of you need to think about the red rope and like the now a little bit because, you know, it's like God has put us here for such a time as this. And there's like there's stuff to be done or that we can do. But it also needs to be balanced out. And and I think through the lens of. the entire rope or like the bigger picture.

You know what I'm saying? Well, think about it like this. Only one life. I was about to say that. To soon be passed. Only what's done for Christ will last. Yeah. Who is that?

CT stud. Wow. So think about it. If you want to think about the red ribbon, think about it in that way. And you being with your daughter, being present with her, hearing her,

training her, listening to her, loving her, caring for her, that's that's eternal yeah that's an eternal promise in that yeah how amazing it is that you both almost just said that same thing yeah what a beautiful picture of like being in sync and quote unquote on the same page in a marriage that's like that was actually insane yeah and then I also just want to close by I guess giving a brief summary of how unbelievable what you've said

that over the last hour really is in light of the fact that you were on stages in front of thousands of people living the dream doing all these things you have this huge following you have this crazy love story of how you met your wife you have all of the pieces but you're saying it's like it's all for not and i want to i want to pursue god and this is this is the best season of life again doesn't make sense in light of your story but uh i'm just so impressed and glad to know you, glad that you were able to come on and share your story. And for those listening, they want to find out more about Amber's book. It is called The Girl on the Bathroom Floor.

We'll link that down below. Granger wrote an unbelievable book. We touched on some of the topics. It's called Like a River. Would recommend both of those. But I think we did it, guys. I think we figured out all of the problems of the world. We did it.

Yeah, we finally did it. Good job. Everyone has healed. Yeah. Seriously, thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you, brothers. Great to talk to you.

Yeah, good to talk to you. Yeah, great to talk to you guys. Have a good day. You too.