Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - Thomas Rhett Gets Candid About Success, Fatherhood & Legacy

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

This week we're joined by our friend and one of country music's biggest stars, Thomas Rhett We dive into his journey from growing up around music to becoming one of the most successful artists in country music. Thomas shares stories from his early days as a songwriter, the moments that changed his career, and what life was really like during his rise to fame. We also talk about his marriage to Lauren, raising five daughters, balancing family life with life on the road, and the values that keep him grounded through it all. Plus, Thomas opens up about what he wants the next chapter of his life and career to look like. We also discuss his upcoming Soundtrack to Life Tour and what's ahead musically, including his latest releases and the deluxe version of About A Woman. He's also hinted that a new album is in the works and could be his favorite project yet! Follow Thomas: Instagram: @thomasrhettakins TikTok: @thomasrhettakins Facebook: Thomas Rhett Official Website & Tour Dates: https://ThomasRhett.com (00:00) pinch me moment: interview with thomas rhett (02:20) thomas on being new to podcasting (03:40) the power of counseling (08:10) parenting (10:35) what does thomas want to be known for? (17:00) how thomas's perspective on life purpose changed over time (21:05) balancing the public eye (26:50) how to teach "relevancy" (33:46) passions vs. professions (36:42) will a new identity fix it all? (41:50) how to navigate a "second chapter" (45:20) you can't crush simplicity (48:18) thomas's thoughts on biohacking (50:00) what words do you think of when you hear "god"? (52:49) thomas's tour (55:40) the tennessee volunteer in thomas's heart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things, interviews. With Sean and Andrew. Today, we have the one and only, Thomas Wrette. I never thought we would actually have Thomas Red on our podcast. I'm a big fan. It is kind of a pinchy moment. I am a big fan as well.

It is a little strange because we know him and his family decently well here in Nashville. And to actually sit him down and go through the interview process and get to know him even more, like on a deeper level. I'm so excited for you guys to hear him, to get to know him more. If you haven't heard of Thomas Redd, you have literally been living under a rock because he's one of the greatest artists out there. And he's coming to Nashville to play soon. That's right. His tour starts here.

In July. Check him out. If you want to learn more about Thomas and what he's up to, he's a fun follow on social media. And he's a fun concert to go to as well. So Thomas, thanks for joining us. And I hope you enjoy this one. Are you nervous? I don't feel like you don't get nervous about anything.

I only get nervous because I can have like a normal conversation with friends. but like when we interview I'm always like I'm going to say something weird It's weird to like know people Thanks It should be You as well

Well I'll judge you at the end Great Great Thank you for coming on Thanks for having me We live really close We live really close Yeah I could have walked here

Yeah I had no idea Yeah But now we're just around the corner From each other It's amazing You gotta come Turkey hunting

And I'm gonna come turkey hunting Your front yard Without permission If you see somebody out there It's probably me I see another random blind in my front yard. Yeah.

Can I just start by saying, it's so cool the reputation that you have in this city. We went to one of your concerts last week and we're talking to some people. And there were several comments made that people would have quit the industry and left the music business altogether had it not been for your encouragement and your. Are you serious? 100%. I don't know. Who are these people? I'm not going to name names.

I'm not going to throw them under the bus. But you've done a phenomenal job. And it's so cool that it seems like your public brand is so much in line with your private life, probably more enhanced in the private, the generosity and the selflessness that you portray. So just want to start there. I appreciate that, man. I receive it. Thank you.

I didn't want to transition for, you're just new to the podcast game. Yes. How you like it, dude? I think it's really fun. It's really fun. I mean, if you know me at all, I feel like we've gotten to know each other over the last couple of years. but I'm a pretty open book. I'm one of those people that if I'm sad, you're going to know it.

If I'm happy, you're going to know it. Like the moment you see me, and I'm one of those people that if you're like, how you doing, bud? I'm like, not great. You know what I mean? Like, we live in a culture of like, I'm great. How are you? You know what I mean?

I've just always been the dude to really sort of say what's on my mind. And so I think it's been fun sort of getting in front of a microphone with people that I love, just because I feel like we're, at least for this group here, we're sort of doing life similarly. We're in the same sort of season with kids, same kind of season in careers and all that kind of mess. And like it's just, it's hard. And if you don't talk about the realness that's going on at your house, while you're trying to have a successful career, then who else you can talk about it with?

You know what I mean? Yeah. I've kind of gotten into doing a lot more counseling lately too. Like I've always been kind of a proponent for at least meeting with someone once a year. And now Lauren and I have started doing it more together, has been super helpful for our marriage. I don't know. I just think it's fun to kind of dive into where y'all's heads are at in life.

And hopefully we can kind of land on some common ground, and I can help y'all and y'all can help me. Not to get too neat or greedy, but I'm curious, what type of counseling are you doing? Is it like biblical counseling? Yeah, biblical counseling. Probably. Yep, I've done both.

I've done the sort of, quote, unquote, Christian counseling and non. And for me, like, if I'm sitting with somebody that's trying to help me with my life, and I go to some kind of scripture about what's going on, they're like, yeah, we don't, we're just going to talk about your, I'm just kind of like, well, but that's where I find so much of my piece. Like, how can we not talk about that? And so for me, I've, I've started to meet with a lady. Her name's Ali. She's absolutely incredible, strong believer. And so obviously she has like the professional tools, but also blends it with, you know, holy spirit interaction and, you know, shedding things off of your shoulders and really getting, you know,

true, you know, freedom from prayer. And that's been such a massive, just a massive health and shift for me and in my marriage. So after our third kid, we went straight to counseling. It was just like, you should have gone after your second kid, but yes, well done. And we found biblical counseling. And I just remember, I was such a skeptic. I love counseling and I love therapy. But with this, with our marriage, with babies, it just felt different. Yeah. It felt heavier in the sense of like, I wanted truth. And I loved. how every time we would bring something to them, they'd be like, actually, let's open up the Bible

and see, like, what they would say about it. Totally. And I was like, that actually feels legit. And not just like, you're telling me, just get better, you know? Right. It felt validated. Yeah, you start just kind of diving into the abyss that is like your feelings. And then you're like, well, what are we doing this for?

Like, to what end? For us, it was, it was all about forgiveness, which is. I mean, we're completely sleep deprived. We had three kids under the age of three. Yeah, that's hardcore. Yeah. You did the same thing. Maybe not that gap.

Wait, how old are yours? Well, our first two kids was almost like having twins in a way. Yeah. Because we adopted Willa Gray from Uganda in May of 2017, and then Ada James was born August 2017. So we literally had like a one and a half year old and a newborn within two months of each other. Wow. Twins. You have twins.

Basically. Yeah. And then your next one? Lennon came, she was born in 2020. Yeah. So we had a few years. Lily came in 2021. Exactly.

So that was, okay, so I guess we are on the same page. And then we honestly, I thought we were done. Yeah. I was like, this is great. Yes. Like, you know, once Lily had turned like three or four, like things are normal, kids are sleeping, like schedules are pretty routine. And then, you know, boom.

Baby boy. Baby boy. I honestly did. I didn't think it was in the cards for me. I had accepted it. I was like, all right, God, I'm just a, I'm a girl dad. And I'm totally, totally fine with that. And we didn't find out the sex of brave.

A lot of friends had said to sort of the last surprise left in life, and I was super against it. Like, literally nine months against it. Really? Yeah, I was just like, we need to know. We have to know. And then, but the moment we got to the hospital, I was like, I'm so glad that we waited

because he's about to be the most gnarly surprise ever. Had it feel when he saw his baby boy. I just couldn't believe it, honestly. Watching him come out and knowing that it was a boy was, I don't know, just in a way, just the goodness of God. You know what I mean? I think that God knew the whole time internally deep inside. I love being a girl dad, but I really did want a boy at some point. And so for him to be our last, well, I think it's our last.

I don't really know. Lauren literally the other day was like, can we just do one more? Oh my goodness. And there's a lot of people that will say like, what do they call it, like the good baby lie or the good baby trick? Like if you have like a fourth or fifth child that's like, oh, you can just bomb, you know, sleeps 10 hours a night, doesn't cry at all. You're like, we should do it again because it's so easy and then it doesn't work that way. So, yeah. That was ours.

Our first two were easy. And third came out just, I was way too confident. I was like, this is going to be a breed. We're going to go for four. And then everything, he was colicky baby, everything. And I was like, we're done. We're done. Can't do that again.

Well, I mean, just sheer numbers of children alone. Like, even if they were all, like, just pent perfect. Yeah. It's still three extra humans, five extra humans. You have five. I have five. That's wild. It's why we do therapy.

That's why I do therapy. Dude, I'm so excited for you because we started with a girl. And it's amazing. There's nothing like having a daughter. Nothing like it. I mean, I will cry just looking at my daughter. Oh, dude. And then it's, it's a lot of,

almost like the girl is all love. It just makes your heart swell up. And then the boys are just little goons, dude. And it's like all fun. It's like y'all are just idiots. It's so fun. Like I can't wait for you experience both parts of it. I will say it's so different.

As a mom, though, I feel with a little boy, like you all feel with little girls. Yes. Because I feel like as a mom with my daughter, I see so much of like what her life is going to be, like as a girl, like hardships and just everything. that girls go through. So I relate too much. It's still the greatest love in the entire world. But then boy, like I obviously didn't experience any of that.

So you're more naive. So to him, he's like my little boyfriend. Yeah. And I'm just like smitten, both of them. And you guys look at your little girls the same way. Yeah, 100%. She's your little girlfriend. It's just, you're just in love.

Yeah, I see that. I mean, obviously our little boy is not old enough for me to have that father or son. I mean thing yet because he's like two months old or whatever. But I noticed like the the lovey-dovey thing between me and my daughters. And Lauren obviously loves our girls, but it's different. But now with Brave in the house, like the way that she looks at Brave. Oh, yeah. It's different.

Yeah. It's different. It's just different. Yeah. That's fine. And he's already like old enough to be like, no, I want my mom. Oh. Like I could pick him up.

Like, I mean, when Lauren, like, leaves me alone with him for an hour, it is, I stress out. I'm like, not good at the angles. And dude, if the passy drops again, you know when a passy drops out of the kid's mouth and it just rolls into the abyss? It's like this literally dropped right here and it rolled a thousand yards in the hallway. So crazy.

But no, he just wants Lauren. It's fascinating that mother, mother, son, father, daughter relationship is pretty incredible. It's beautiful. Dude, just be aware, I don't know what the science is behind it. It is just a fact, though,

that boys smell so much worse than girls. Like, I'm talking about. I'm talking like when they go to the bathroom, just their B-O, their brook, everything. You're like, what is it? Is there like a different GI track going on here? It's even the sweat. Like our boys, I'm like, you smell like a boy. Yeah.

And you're too. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I'm curious, you are, you do so much. And people love you for your music. Obviously, people love you for your social media. You've done Love One, which is amazing. what do you want to be known for? Dude, that's a, that's an interesting question.

And I feel like, when's the last, what's last funeral you all went to? Probably my dad's three years ago. Dang, I didn't know that. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to bring that on the phone. My gosh. You can edit that part way out.

Let me redo that. As soon as you asked that, I was like, let me redo that. I'm so sorry. No, no. I'm really, really sorry. But, like, but to go there, it's like my stepdad's father passed away about a month ago. And I've been lucky.

I've not been to a lot of funerals in my life. Like, I literally have not had very many people close to me pass away. And, you know, when you turn 30, you just start to, there's just people get old, you know. And my stepdad's dad was like 80-something years old. He was a pastor his entire life in Murphy'sboro. And I went to that funeral. and it was fascinating just watching a casket get lowered into the ground. I had this just weird thought that it was just like, this is where we're all headed.

I mean, not our souls, but our bodies are just going to dissipate. And like that's where we're all sort of headed to. And I was thinking about my stepdad's dad of just kind of like, man, you know, what people say about you at your funeral really is what is the life that you lived. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, 100%. I would imagine that at my funeral, no one is going to mention a hit song. You know what I'm saying?

And so it's like, I've mentioned this quite a bit, but I've been reading this book called Living Life Backwards. Have you read this book by David Gibson? It's amazing. It's one of my best friends and mentor is in year three right now of having ALS, which has been just super painful to watch because we're just so close. we're kind of just in it a lot. But he gave me this book. And when you, and when someone gives you a book that is sort of actively in the sickness process, you kind of, you read it differently, you know. And the book is basically all, it's a big study on the book of Ecclesiastes, which has always been my favorite book of the Bible. And my friends growing up would always be, of course, this is your

favorite book. It's the most pessimistic book in the Bible. But when you really read Ecclesiastes from a contextual point of view and really understand like the authors basically say, saying, yeah, this life is meaningless without an eternal perspective in mind. You know what I mean? Because we all just chase and we chase and chase. I mean, Ecclesiase chapter one, verse one, vanity, meaningless, meaningless. You know what I'm saying? And so it's so funny to me that we spend our entire lives trying to like beat this thing or like try to make our mark in these areas. And it's not, it's not a bad thing to want to strive. You know what I mean? It's not a bad thing to want to be competitive. But when those things sort of become your idol and your identity,

I think that's where you end your life empty because that's where you put all of your stock. You know what I'm saying? And so I think when I was watching him get lowered into the ground, it was just like, yeah, there was people that commented on how great of a pastor he was, but really people commented on how great of a friend he was. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And so I think for me, I've been thinking a lot just over the past couple years just about legacy. And I think from a work perspective, like what you started the podcast off with of like, man, there's certain people in town that have said, you know, they wouldn't be doing this, had they not talked to me. That's what I want my musical legacy to be. That's cool. It's really cool to have hits and it's really cool to play big shows and it's cool to have big streaming numbers and all that kind of mess. But I think that, you know, with whatever time I have left doing this business, like I hope that people would say, man, Thomas Rett was the dude that did it at a high level and really helped me when I was on my rise to that level.

because I think that has been my biggest sort of bummer, you know, being in this business because I've been praying for 10 years to have just like an older guy that has done, you know, massive things in the music space. It's also sort of walking with Jesus that I can, hey, dude, like I'm at this show, feeling super lost, like, whatever. It's like, it's like it's not sold out. out, like, my voice is gone. Like, I don't, I have mentors, like, ish,

but there never really has been that guy in my life that was, like, not only coaching me from a musical side, but also coaching me with a walking with Jesus side. And I just kind of have felt the Lord over the last couple years, look at me and be like, that's what I want you to be. It's cool. For other people. Yeah.

And so I would say, like, right now in my life, that is giving me more joy than anything, man. Just, like, talking to, you know, these 22-year-year-old 25-year-old artists that, you know, posted a video on TikTok and now, and here they are. And they're kind of sitting here going,

man, I've played like three shows in my life ever and I'm about to play for 70,000 people opening from Morgan Wallen. You know what I'm saying? And it's just not a normal thing to be in. And so if I can help be some sort of a grounding or some sort of a constants for a younger artist like that, that's what I want my musical sort of legacy

to be. There's an author David Brooks who talks about resume virtues versus eulogy virtues. Resumet virtues versus eulogy virtues. He's like you know resume virtues are good. This is what I had 25

number one hit songs. Is that right? Yeah. Casual. Well done. You know, put out X amount of albums. Here's all the accomplishments, the awards, yada, yada, the accolades. But the eulogy virtues are these more intangibles. Like, oh, he was such a good always showed up when I knew him to. He was a mentor and helped me.

And, you know, we'd stayed up till 2 a.m. just talking through life's issues. And you're like, yeah, you want to live life with the eulogy virtues. So good. I'm curious, though. So good. Do you feel like you, is this always been your perspective? Some people say, you know, who are on the front end of the success, say, well, it's

easy for you to say because you've already done all your resume stuff. Yeah. And now you're talking about that stuff's not as important as you. But like, has it always been that perspective? of? Absolutely not. I wish I could say yes. I think the Lord does a really good job at letting us really fail in a lot of ways.

You know, I would say that someone really struggling right now to try to make it as a musician or an actor could look at, you know, my life or look at some famous actor's life and be like, well, sure, that's easy for you to say. You know what I mean? But like, there's not many people that know the late night struggle. or all the things that people didn't see that did not work. You know what I mean? Like it's easy to look at Instagram because it genuinely is a highlight real. Like no one's out there posting, what's up? Like we totally did not sell out California tonight.

But hey, love y'all. Like no one's saying that. You know what I mean? You're only posting about the things that were sick. You know what I mean? And there's, I mean, if I can go back through my career, there were so many more failures than there were successes. And so when you get, so like, when I look back at my career, man, like, I know this sounds so cliche to say.

But like, I did not make any of this happen. You know what I mean? I was listening to John Maxwell speak a couple weeks ago. And he was kind of talking about in his early years of sort of preaching, he had a mentor, a guy that was older than him that flew out to meet him in California when he was kind of starting to, like, become a really famous speaker and pastor and all these kind of things. things and and the mentor looked at him and was just kind of like, man, it looks like you're, you know, you're doing pretty good. And John was like, yeah, doing pretty good. You know, he's like, I feel like a lot of people are really loving what you have to say. And he's like, yeah, he's going, it's going. You can kind of see where this is going. And the mentor basically goes,

John, you are not amazing. And John said he just felt like super, like it was like a dagger. He's like, what do you mean I'm not amazing? Like, people think I'm amazing. He's like, I get that, but you are not amazing. Your gifts are amazing. You are not amazing. And that rocked me to my core. Because it is so easy to look at the accomplishments of any of our lives and be like, yeah, I did that. I worked harder than everybody else.

I wrote better songs and everybody else. But if you honestly think that, like, at least as a believer, if you think that you had anything to do with that without the power of God, like running through your life, I just, I, I, I think I was delusional, honestly, for so much of my career. And that kind of goes back to answer your question of, like, my perspective early on in my career was like, go get it, go win at all cost. You know what I mean? The only version of success was a number one song or a sellout. And I'm not sure what really shifted.

Maybe I think COVID had a lot to do with it. I think it was the first time that this thing that I found my identity in was not legally allowed to go do. You know what I mean? Like when you find sort of your worth and playing shows and you find your worth and all these things

and now all of a sudden you physically can't go do it because the world is terrified that everybody's going to die of COVID. Like that year rocked me to my core because I think that God sort of stripped every bit of like identity that I had

in being an entertainer and being a musician, all these things. And he was like, hey, you've been missing what is right in front of you for so long. Like first and foremost,

you're a father. First and foremost, you're a husband. First and foremost, your friend. And then the musician part comes at like five or six on that priority list. And so I think 2020 was a really big perspective shift for me moving forward. And so I would say that I'm in like my sixth year of this new sort of perspective, if you will. But had it not been for COVID, it more than likely would have been something else. I think God would have gotten to me in some in some fashion. Having heard what I interested, 25 number ones. Insane. That's the That's well done. Thanks.

You're one of the most well-known names in the industry. You balance being a phenomenal father, husband, son of God, but you also balance being in the public eye so much that people feel like they know everything about you. And with that comes so much pressure to perform, to put out another top number one, to make another album, to make your, your labels, labels? I don't know, I don't know, like, happy, yeah. Coach, I don't know

how you say, but there's so much pressure and I feel like when you look out into the industry, especially coming from the perspective of a mother, there are so many people who find themselves lost. They climb that ladder

and by the time they get to the top, they're a completely different person. Totally. They've lost their foundation, their beliefs, they've morphed into something that is very different than what they started with.

did you have to lose yourself completely to regain that confidence or are you constantly on a public stage having to find a balance? Does that make sense? Yeah. You know, I think for me it's an everyday battle because I think there are certain days where I'm super clear of who I am. I think there's some days where I'm super clear of like what I'm writing, what I'm saying, even the things that I'm saying on stage or backstage, right? But I'd be lying if I said that there are not days where, and I'm not really on, like, social media apps. I've got a really incredible team that, like, helps me with that. Because around COVID, I just, I don't know.

I would be the happiest person in the world in the morning. And then I would see that, like, I didn't do as good as somebody else did at something else. And my day would be destroyed. You know what I mean? Like, the comparison aspect of social media, like, absolutely destroyed me. I also didn't take criticism very well on social media

like I really like the haters like really got me and as much as I wanted to say that doesn't bother me it like really really bothered me because I've also been one of those guys that I've always made music

that's a little bit left of center for you know for our genre like I've never I've got all the traditional parts inside of me but for some reason when I make records like I just I like so much other stuff and so for a long

time that was like the big thing for me it was just like he's not country and like the dude's ruining country music and and all these kind of things and like those things got to me and so I remember like during uh during COVID I was like you know what I'm gonna shut all these people up and I made like you know I just wrote like the best country songs that I could and then I put that record out and it was the worst selling album I've ever released. Like you know what I'm saying? Because it wasn't you. And so I lit because I was literally trying to please this like super small niche of people on social media because we all know that the haters are so loud,

comparatively to what the average population thinks of me. Like, this is a very small sector, but I just couldn't handle, because it felt like failure to me, it felt like rejection to me. And the only way that I knew how to, like, cope with that rejection was to, like, do something that they wanted me to do. And I don't battle, to answer your question,

I don't battle with it as hard now, but it is really tough to always have your eye on your identity in today's time, because every week there's a new trend. Every week there's a new, you know, thing that you need to do on TikTok to, like, get in the algorithm. There's a new, well, we're not doing enough reels. We're not doing enough of this stuff. And I'm just like, gosh, like at what point?

You know what I mean? And so some days I'm like, you know what? God's got this. And the other days I'm like, you know what? We're just going to do it all. We're going to do it all. Even though this feels super, super awkward to lip-sync in front of a camera and freaking, you know, do this while we're driving on. the road like I guess that's what gets the likes and I guess that's what makes it viral and I guess that's what

makes it extreme and I'm just like no wonder I get in the bed exhausted yeah yeah I read a study the other day like eight hours of sleep is not enough anymore oh gosh have you heard this I've heard this yeah basically our brains are so trained right now to just receive right it's like your brain constantly all day has a the right to make a new decision or a new do I like this or do I don't and so even if you were to get in the bed at 9 o'clock and wake up at 5, that'd be a suck at math. That's 8 hours, right? Yeah. Eight hours. Yeah. It's taking your brain like an extra 2 hours to do what it's supposed to do to get into all the rims and the deep sleep. So even if your watch says that you slept eight hours,

you really probably only got 6. Wow. And it's this, it's this, 100%. It's just this constantness of like, am I relevant right now? and it's amazing that my mood will shift on the answer to that question. I'm feeling pretty good about myself. Like after the pop-up show the other night, I was like, I'm everywhere. We did it.

Like, we did the right thing. Like, you know what I mean? We're on Sean Johnson's Instagram page. Like, we're rocking. And then,

you know, the next day, somebody else did something cooler. And you're back at the freaking bottom of the algorithm. And so you live, it's so easy for, of anyone in the public eye to live your life based on those stats.

Yeah. And it is exhausting. It is exhausting. You know what I mean? And then you take it to the road. Like that's the hardest part is when you're having one of those days where you don't feel relevant. It doesn't even matter sometimes. Like how many people are there?

You're like, these people don't care. I don't deserve to be here, you know? I feel like this kind of trend of relevancy is getting more and more, you know. It's spreading more and more to every generation, every person. Oh, yeah. I remember feeling it in athletic. I remember the second I finished at the Olympics. My first interview was, are you going to go to the next one?

And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm here. You're already talking about the next one? You've like forgotten it already. I'm curious as a father who stands on stage in front of millions people and you have the attention of the world. How do you teach your kids about relevancy and this chasing of a dream? when in today's world, it can be tied to your career.

Yeah. I think the only way to know how to answer that is I don't know. Yeah. Honestly. Like if I were to, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I know all the right answers. The good thing about where we're at is that I think we're all trying to struggle well at this. Yeah. And sometimes I think that's all you can ask for is to, um, is to say that you don't know and then just actively implement things that you feel like are right.

And I think the best thing that I think the best thing that I'm, I think that I'm, that I have found is to always constantly admit my mistakes. You know what I mean? I have great parents. They grew up in a different generation. I think we're all learning how to say sorry now to each other. I think we're all trying to learn how to be more vulnerable, you know. But I'm like overly vulnerable with my kids, like age appropriately vulnerable with my kids. Like when my kids see me on my phone too often, I've asked my 10 year old to call me out. And she will. She's like, Daddy, you're doing it again. I'm like, I'm doing what?

She's like, you're not looking at me in the eye. Good for her. Noted. Noted. And so I have tried to implement a thing where it's like, if my kids are talking to me, no matter what is happening on my phone, the phone has to be face down on the kitchen table. And I really do try to like, you know, sit with them and be like, hey, I'm struggling today. You know what I mean?

Especially like at nighttime, like when we're saying our prayers, like my kids can see. my angst or my sadness all over my face. And I used to kind of just play this game. I was like, no, daddy's good. You know what I mean? But there was this one time where Ada James, my eight-year-old, was like, I'm like, I'm good. I was like, no, you're not.

You're not. You might as well just go ahead and say what's on your mind. So now she does that to me. You know what I mean? And so I think to like for kids to realize that their parents are not perfect is a huge step because I don't want them to think that I'm perfect. and then one day, you know, something happens. I'm like, whoa, I've never seen my dad cry before.

Like, what is happening? You know what I'm saying? But I try to share with them all the feelings that I get about the relevancy stuff, you know, because what they're going to experience is arguably going to be 20 times harder than what I experienced, at least on the front end of my career, you know. And I also just like not in like a, I don't just say you're awesome to my kids because I just want to say that. But, like, I genuinely believe it. And I want to look them in the eye and be like, hey, I know you struck out.

Guess what? You get to go to bat again? You know what I mean? Hey, I know you didn't score that goal, but you get to play a game again next week. And so I'm trying to, like, help them not to take their version of failure and think that that's it. You know what I'm saying? Like, life has so many different chances for you to kind of figure out who you are and what you do. And so, but it's tough because they already, you know, we're looking at their friends that get to wear lip gloss.

to school and they look at their friends that are already putting powder on their face. And I'm just like, you don't, you look awesome without it. You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm sure every parent in the world says that I'm sure my mom said like it was really hard to raise kids in the 90s. But I do believe that this is arguably the hardest generation

in human history to raise kids. It has to be. So interesting. I do not envy your profession. We did, we've done a select number of tours, kind of like live podcast things. And there is, it's something so different, dude, when you're in front of a crowd and it's not sold out. Or like there's all the pressure from the managers

and the agent and the venue and this and the other. And it's just like it's, it's so different, both on the high and the low. Yeah. Totally. It's like, dude, I sold it out. It's like this euphoria. Uh-huh.

It's dangerous. You're like, I'm the man. 100%. You know? And then they don't sell out and you're like, I'm not worth it. It is a dark place. place dude yeah it's it's so crazy but i'm grateful for i feel like it was probably five years ago

maybe in that covid area where we got caught in that relevance thing and you're talking about the algorithm and what's trending and this that and the other we got to make slime videos and we've been doing youtube for 10 years and we were trying to do all that like jump on the trends found out i can't make slime it is terrible failed that slime it is terrible and we shifted from like okay hey the the rhythm and the trends are so it's almost like random and it's ever changing so like maybe you jump on one and have a moment and in the limelight maybe you don't uh but the more sure route to i would say like quote unquote positive feelings is like just understanding what what message has god put you in a position to share for sure because i think one everyone has that and two when

you are able to share that there's there's way less like of this feeling of burnout way less feeling of discouragement. If you put out a video and it doesn't give views, you're still like, you know what, I'm pretty proud of that. Regardless of how big. So I feel like we've done a better job at shifting that. I remember when we first started on YouTube, it was like, gymnastics was the biggest thing trending. Yeah, I was like, dude, we won. We're going to dominate it. And then I talked to Sean about this whole game plan. Like, we're going to do collab, gymnastics class with dude perfect. We had it all lined down. She's like, I'm not doing any gymnastics. I was like, okay, all right. It's good, but thanks to Sean's ruthlessness of like staying steady to, I don't know,

the core calling versus my reckless ambition. That's right. I think she's a great way to word that. Well, I mean, it comes from a lot of failure. I was very lucky within my career to go through my career as a child. And there's so many pros and so many cons to that. but I got to be a witness to every single other person as an adult going through the pinnacle of their career. That's right.

And either crashing and burning or succeeding and people finding fulfillment and people getting lost. And I just got to witness all of it. Yeah. And just kind of take in data points. Yeah. Yeah. I've been like battling, not battling, but just like really thinking on what you just said for a while. Like when you start your quote-on-

quote passion in life at such a young age. There's so many careers that have, quote, like a shelf life. You know what I'm saying? And so like, thinking about you, you were how old? 16. 16. When I retire. And you can't do that when you're 60.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's inevitable that you had to find a second chapter of life. You know what I'm saying? And honestly, for me too, I mean, I look at George Strait and I'm like, there's no way I'm doing this one in 178. years old. Absolutely not. Maybe the one-off acoustic gig at some beach bar in Key West or something, but not. You don't want a residency in Las Vegas? No. At 73? Absolutely not. But it is fascinating

because, you know, I started, I signed a record until when I was 21. Wow. So I've, I've been doing this professionally for almost 16 years. You know what I mean? And as a 36 year old man, it's like I'm already internally asking myself these questions. I'm like, well, what's chapter two? Yeah. You know what I mean? Do you want a chapter two? Absolutely. Do you want a chapter two career? I don't know. Yeah. I come up with a new company every day. Love it. I love that. Oh my God. Every day. I'm just a, I'm a builder. There's a, there's a song and I can't Charlie Worsham is the name

of the artist and this song is about a relationship. It's not about what I'm thinking of but the name of the or the hook of the song is she just loves the beginning of things. Yeah. And that's me. I love the beginning of everything. Like the creation process,

the dreaming, the merch, the you know, what's it all going to do? But then when it comes to like actually having to like run the company, I'm out. Yeah. Like y'all go, you all hire other people to do that. And it's not that I'm bored of my career by any means,

but I do feel this desire to like, I'm really desiring to do different things in my career. You know what I mean? I still love to play shows. I still love to create. And I still have to write songs and make records. But like, you know, just going out every year and doing the, you know, 50 some odd arenas and amphitheaters,

I just don't know how I'm made for it. I am anymore. And so like what what juices me up now would be like to sit at a 500 cap theater and sit with a dagum playwriter and come up with a two hour just bank just me and a guitar and telling this seamlessly flowed story for like those are the things that I lay awake and dream about at night now. So creative. Really cool. Yeah, I'm a poet. I love it. Um, I got to ask you. No, what I want to ask a question? I'm asking a question first. Okay. Um, In athletics, this is something that athletes would talk about a lot, but the transition out of your career going to chapter two. There's a removal of an identity similar to what you're talking about about being on stage.

One, is that something that musicians talk about? Two, is it something that you think about of do you worry about removing the identity of TR the singer and moving on to chapter two? Or does that excite you? I think it I think it really excites me to think about other things but I also know that I have to like

understand what it is that I'm chasing from having that thought does that make sense? Like I remember during COVID when we all thought that nothing was ever going to happen again my wife calls me just insane but I was this close to just like going and getting my

real estate license. I was Could you imagine. Good for you. There was like a part of me that was just like, I could sell the crap out of a house. I know I could. I could literally paint someone's dreams like standing.

Like I would like play. I would role play with my life. Like let me sell you this house from this kitchen. With your poetry, it'd be incredible. And so I do that with like a lot of different things. Like for some reason right now I feel like I could run a private equity firm. I know nothing about it. But it fascinates me.

I'm learning all the EBITA terms and the, you know, all the different like private equity language. And it's probably just because I have friends. now that do that. I'm like, oh, I could do that. I could work for you. I could do that. You know, but my desire to like, like, anytime I bring this up, Lauren's like, just because like that's what you think you want to go do, do you think you're going to have any less worry or trouble or stress. Does it make sense? Oh, yeah. Because like as an athlete or or anyone that has done anything that's pretty exceptional like both of y'all have, it's really hard to settle for mediocrity at anything. You know what I'm saying? Like even being a parent. you know what I mean like no one wants to be a mediocre parent oh yeah you want to be a baller parent

yeah you know what I mean um and so I think that for me like a couple years ago I had a therapist tell me he was like I think you need I think you need multiple bottom lines um for your success and I was like what does that mean he's like do you know what multiple bottom lines are it's like you know different ways to kind of say oh good job and and and so I think for me I've always just had this version of success of just like if the record went to the number one on the billboard chart if the songs went number one and the shows were sold out that's the only way I'm going to lay my head on my pillow at night and say we did a good job that's a really impossible thing to keep up over a 40 year span you know what I'm saying you're lucky to get a year of that

in any career and so he made me sort of write out different ways that I could lay my head on the pillow at night that I could call success and so one of the ways that I wrote out like live like even if a show wasn't sold out or even if I felt like we did a terrible job one night, as long as I got to like look at some person in the audience in their eyes and see them smile, like knowing that what I'm doing on stage is bringing one person in the arena of joy,

I have to be able to walk away no matter the outcome of that show and lay my head on my pillow and say, that was one of my bottom lines for success. I can say that it was job well done. That's awesome. And I don't do a great job at that, but it's a nice practice to have.

I got so many thoughts first of all the the idea of like the shelf life I think is so interesting and it's a I've always prided myself on being scrappy well Sean I'll tell you I have no shame or fear of failure and that's one thing that I feel like we congratulations it's incredible we've been a good team because Sean is like a perfectionist which is we're not gonna do this unless it's all figured out all the way to the end zoom in five years it's got to be perfect and I'm like let's go sin, baby. Let's just give it a rip and see how it goes. And so it's been like a good little dance between us where I could start today and she could start never. It's like I actually let's,

kind of wed these two things. My favorite real quick, he's similar to real estate. He's signed up to be an Uber driver. That was his backup. Yeah. I'm actually currently getting my real estate license too though, by the way too. I'm going to the just because I just wanted to learn about it. There's like a class you could take on your app. That's incredible. The aceable agent. It's what I'm doing. It's very strange. He signed up to be an Uber driver, but then he went and got his doctorate too at the same time. Whoa. Just for fun. Yeah. Yeah. But the idea of like extending the shelf life, I feel like is a helpful thing to, I guess back to like the calling as opposed to chasing the trends doing what's meaningful to you. It's a way to extend the shell or extend your runway. Yeah. That gives you more reps.

And I think the game is almost like, hey, the more reps you can get in, one of them is more likely to be successful or have a hit. So that's one thought. But I'm also curious, if you have any mentors, maybe just is a challenge for you, is to find mentors who have found a second chapter beyond music. Nobody ever really talks about musicians who hang up the cleats. I feel like it's more common in athletics where it's like, yeah, they're done.

That literally has been my podcast idea for the last two years. I had this, which I have no time to do a podcast. I don't know how y'all even have time to do this. But I had this idea of starting a podcast. podcast called The Back Nine. Love it. Because I love golf so much. It sounded like a really fun way just to get on the golf course and interview someone.

But as I started to get into the niche of it, like, I do have quite a bit of people that their whole life, they were known for this thing. And they always will be. But now they're like finding this new lane, this new chapter. And I thought that would be a really unique way to interview like a Peyton Manning or something. or a golfer that had just won three masters or whatever now their back hurts too bad to play and now they're doing something else because it's like it is arguably I would imagine going to be the hardest thing in the world for me to do like one day when I do sort of I don't know if exit is the right word but just sort of pull back and try something else like when you have kind of been stuck

to a thing for so long and someone has known you as that person for so long and now all of a sudden you're doing whatever. Like, it's also been a dream of mine forever to start, like, my own, not even a clothing brand. I just want to open a mercantile. Yeah. Like, you have no idea how many nights I lay awake dreaming about just this sick. We carry only American-made products and we tailor your jeans in-house and their bill makes

coffee and there's, they make, we only serve one drink and it's an old fashion in the back. And, you know, David walks in every Monday morning looking for new pair of socks. I'm like, how can I help you this morning, David? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know why that. I think I'm drawn to simplicity at this point in my life. Maybe that's what it is. And so I like, you know, AI, this whole company just like making logos from whatever little mercantile shop.

And Larm was like, okay, cool. So let's just play that out. I was like, what do you mean? She was like, all right, cool. So you open your little shop called Reds or whatever it's going to be called. And then there's somebody else that opens a little mercantile shop across the street. I was like, okay. And she was like, and they're crushing.

you in sales. I'm like, okay, I see where you're going. I would want to franchise all over North America. It's the only way I know how to do it. The whole world. You know what I'm saying? And so that's what I meant. It's like you have to know your motive, I think, before you kind of shift into something else because there is no such thing as a perfect job. Like everything has got its own bit of stress and good days and bad days and all the above and I literally every single morning the prayer that I say is like God I only want to do this as long as you will allow me. And I have to believe that he's going to call me out when he's going to call me out or he's going to keep me in if he's going to keep me in. Yeah. And that's really the only way I can find peace in pursuing. So we have had

the pleasure and the gift of having elites sitting in these chairs. People with such gifts and such talents in their arena that it's just like looking at you and hearing your voice it's like oh my gosh you have such a gift but hearing what you just said about this idea of opening reds

and then being competitive and then franchising to try it's the only thing you know how to do I do think there is this idea and this syndrome you call it or I would call it of elite where

and it's I this is going to forming thoughts at the same time about words with words but I've heard this story over and over and over from so many people which is I dream of the simple life yeah but I do you actually believe I don't know yet I don't know because everyone has said the same thing I've left my career as whatever it was

and now I'm moving on and then they start telling us these stories of this new life that they've built and they're crushing it this in and I'm like that's not what you wanted at first you don't go crush simplicity no you're what I'm saying like you just sort of be it you create another world yeah and we're doing the same thing like I I dreamt of this simplistic life and this new house that we have and I'm even telling you I was like we had 60,000 bees delivered we're doing syrup we're doing honey we just got chickens we're doing it and I'm like that's not simple it's not I'm complicating everything yeah but it's just

more of a thought maybe than a question but I that's really really wonder if we're capable of it. That's fascinating. And maybe certain people are not. You know what I mean? Actually, this might be a hot take, but the whole just American dream as a whole is like you work your life away to retire at 65. Right. That's like the, you know, from the 40s to now. Like that's what it's always been about. And like the more that I like dive into scripture, no one really retired in the Bible. Yeah. You either got killed for pursuing your faith or you, you've, Methuselah worked 969 years. You know what I mean? I think we were built. Yeah. We were built to work. We were built to work.

We were also built to find rest amongst the chaos. Yeah. And I think that none of us do a good job at finding the rest. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like God made one day for rest. You know what I'm saying? And I actually heard a pastor say this other day.

I thought it was fascinating of like, why did God rest? Have you ever asked yourself that question? No. He's God. Yeah. Do we really think that God needed a water break? No. You know what I mean?

Or like he needed to eat lunch? No. No. He literally just dreamt up water and said, boom, dreamt up light, boom, and all these things. And I heard a pastor talk about, yes, God may have rested on the seventh day to teach us how to rest on a day. But I think he also rested on that day to show that he had restraint, which I found so fascinating. Because think about all the other things that he could have created. Yeah.

Yeah. How many more animals could have created purple shades of grass and he could have created six sons and all these other things. But he was just like, no, no, no, I see what I've done here and it's good. Once you're done reading the book, Living Life Backwards, you should start reading the ruthless elimination. I've read it. Bro, it is. Amazing. It's my least favorite book in the world.

And my favorite book in the world. I will say, I thought the same thing when I read it. I was like, I could be doing so much better. Yeah. I need to do so much less. more. I love how Sundays or Sabbath is positioned in that is just like, no, this is the day you get to do all the things you enjoy most. Exactly. Yeah, it's freaking beautiful. Yeah. I do have to hear about, you mentioned the sleep study. You mentioned 50 shows a year,

probably at least that, if I don't imagine. What is, what is Thomas Wretz's like fitness, health, biohack routine? I'm curious. Uh, inconsistent. The word. inconsistent it's inconsistent i feel like i do a really good job at working out when i'm on the road i bring my buddy larry out there with me he's a boxing coach and we'll we'll hit mits and we'll hit the bag and we'll do some body weight stuff um i don't do a ton of cardio on the road because i i mean i get 10 000 steps in a show i mean i burn like 1,500 calories really in a 90 minute show oh my god uh so i never eat enough so i just always stay this lean bean i just want to get yoked so bad once in my life.

Like if you gave me a shot right now and said you could be yoked, I'd do it probably. But when I'm home, it is misery. Me and my wife actually went worked out together yesterday, which was really fun. She works out three days a week. Like, she crushes it. But when I'm home, I just got a golf simulator put in. I've just been glued, just dialed. Like just nerding out with the numbers and the spin rates and the face angle and the pat, all that kind of stuff.

Like, that's like, that's what I do. get into a hobby and I'm like, I'm going to be the best that I possibly can at fly fishing or skiing or collecting baseball cards or whatever it is. But my workout routine at home is pretty misery. Not to out you publicly. Yeah. We go to some similar charity events, you know. Yeah. And it always feels like there's a golfing with Thomas Wrette auction item on that. Might be a little bit selfish. And I like, I know you're, now I get it. I get it. I'm obsessed with it. So much. Wait, you bought one.

I think I did it one more. Yeah. Anyway, I'm going to invite myself over and do the golf. You should, please. Anytime. It's a good strategy. I don't know if you're familiar with A.W. Tozer, but he said, Oh, yeah.

What comes to mind when you think about God is the most important thing about you. So here you are, I think, in a position where maybe not explicitly, but some people might idolize you and put you in. And like, whether it's a young musician saying, if only I could do what Thomas Red has done. Or maybe it's a fan. Like we saw last week, people losing their minds, dude, the shrieks. The woman up front who you said she'll come to how many shows this year? Yeah.

She came to 21 last year. Or she came to 16. She coming to 21 this year. That's incredible. Yeah. Some people kind of view you as God. I'm curious what comes to mind when Thomas Ret thinks God. If you could use some adjectives to just...

Like what words come to mind when I think of God? when I think of God. Wow. I guess today, I've never been asked that question. That's great. I think probably the biggest

word that comes to my brain is mercy. Is mercy. I, you know, you talk about perfectionism or whatever, like,

I put so much pressure and shame on my own self, you know. But what's fascinating is like, if you look at how you look at your children, right?

And then you times it, by infinity that way. Why do we have such a hard time believing that we can be forgiven? Why do we have

such a hard time believing that God has already gave us the utmost grace that we're not giving to ourselves? Does that make sense? Like when I look at my kids

and I watch them fail or I watch them you know, just do something that's like not right or just not great. It's so easy for me to look at that

and be like, buddy, It's all good. I forgive you. You know what I mean? And so if I as a human being can love that, which I don't think that humans are capable of loving unconditionally. I think we'd like to believe that we are,

but we do have a little bit of condition in us, I think. If I can love my kids that well and forgive that easy and so show so much grace and so much mercy to my children, why do I not believe that my Heavenly Father could not show that to me? Wow. It's a mercy. You got me tear out over here, bro. I mean thinking about Jett's second birthday.

He came down the stairs. And I'll never forget, this was like the most powerful realization of how, you know, God, the father, came down on the stairs for his birthday. We had all the motorcycles and, you know, all his favorite things out there and his just, like, expression of joy. And it's like, buddy, this is all for you.

Yeah. Not in like a prosperity one. No, 100%. Oh, dude, he just wants it for it. And it's like so much joy. So thank you for it. thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. You're on tour right now?

Yeah. About to be. About to be. For how long? We've taken it pretty slow. I've got, I think I've only got like six or seven shows between from January to like July. Nice. But our tour starts July 9th here in Nashville, which I've never kicked off a tour in Nashville. I always end our tours in Nashville. And we go through October. So it's like 30-something shows.

Does that excite you? Yes. Good. Yeah. I do, I mean, I, I am one of the time. of those people that I think my management hates talking to me before a tour goes on because it's like I'm I'll sit on ticket master late at night and just be like why are all these seats open right now? Oh no. You know what I mean? Like I traded Instagram for freaking ticket master.

Yeah. Or seat geek. It's just like I'm just, I'm texting like my manager at 11 be like, yo, why is Kansas City looking rough? Like do we need to cancel that? Yeah. You know what I mean? She's like, no. We have three months until that show happens, you know?

but I do get really excited I love putting a show together I love thinking of like new ways to like make people feel known and seen and cherished at our shows I haven't read the book Unreasonable Hospitality I'm not sure if y'all have

but I met the dude that wrote it a couple weeks ago and just because he now runs like the number one and two restaurant on the globe which is gnarly and his whole book is about how to make people feel seen and known

like in a restaurant setting and so like we talked a lot just about tour and just like really understanding like what what makes people feel well cherished and seen and loved you know what I mean because you're that's you're not playing the show for you yeah yeah you know what I mean like you might have some fun doing it but you're really doing it for them and and uh when I really think about you know sort of my fans and or people that have never been to our show it's like what I what do I want them to leave with that's kind of my main question that I'm asking myself while I'm still doing this

career is like what what it's like legacy it's like when people leave my show what I want them to say. You know what I mean? Like I want them to think that it's fun. I want them to think that they got their money's worth, but I also want them to like leave going, man, I feel I feel lighter after that show. Does it make sense? I feel connected after that show. I feel like I met a new friend tonight that I might be friends with for a long time at that show because we bonded over something that he's saying or something that he said. And so that is sort of like, and like I still love pyro and like I'll make an our show sick. But more so. than that.

Like, it's like, what is the intentionality that's going to go into the tour? That's what makes me really excited. That's really cool. Yeah. Wow. Thomas, thanks for being here. This is a real treat. Look forward to it.

We have golfed one time. We did. We did not win that tournament, I think. But we'll have to redeem that at some point. You aren't quite an avid golfer, though. No, I did play yesterday, though. Yeah. Pretty fun.

If you want to view how I treat failure, just play golf with me. That's it in a nutshell. Great. I think you can view that in a lot of people. 100%. Yeah. I just love, it's so cool. I think you embrace this Nashville idea of community so well.

Our pastor was talking the other day about the history of the idea of the Tennessee volunteers about, I thought it was kind of just one war that the Tennessee citizens stepped up and volunteered to go serve, but it was like three or four. Yeah. Which is so cool. Yeah, it is. And I don't know if it's something in the water down here, but it's like this, there is, there is an ambition you know there is this striving but different than a place maybe like

california where it's it's just like at all ambition at all cost kind of like let me let me build my empire uh i think you display this best where it's like it's this uh community focused hey let's do this thing together and just the stories that we hear about you from mutual friends and and uh now people that you've worked with it's really cool so thank you for giving us your time okay man thanks for all yeah Yeah, really fun. Thanks for coming. Sweet.