CppCast - From Healthcare to Automotive

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

Honey Sukesan joins Phil and Timur. They first have a couple more conference announcements, an update on Cpp2 and a round-up of C++ in 2022. Then they talk to Honey Sukesan about her journey from working in Healthcare to working in the Automotive industry, and some of the surprising overlaps - as well as her personal journey during along the way. News CppNorth tickets on sale using std::cpp Call for Speakers "Cpp2 and cppfront: Year-end mini-update" "C++ at the end of 2022" - Bartlomiej Filipek "libstdc++13 gets C++20 " Links ToastMasters "Can software developers draw pictures" (Honey's CppCon 2020 Lightning Talk) "SOLID Principles Unleashed" (Honey's CppIndia 2022 talk)

Episode 351 of CppCast with guest Hani Sukeshan, recorded 2nd of January 2023. This episode is sponsored by JetBrains and Sonar. Sonar Lint in your IDE helps you find and fix bugs and security issues from the moment you start writing code. JetBrains has a range of C++ IDEs to help you avoid the typical pitfalls and headaches that are often associated with coding in C++. In this episode, we talk about the latest announcements from several conferences, an update about CPP2, and an overview of what happened in 2022. Then we talk to Hani Sukeshan. Hani talks to us about her work in the healthcare and automotive industries, her activities

in the C++ community, and more. Welcome to episode 351 of CppCars, the first podcast for C++ developers by C++ developers. I'm your host, Timo Dummler, joined by my co-host, Phil Nash. Phil, how are you doing today? All right, Timo, how are you doing? I'm not too bad, actually. We just moved to Finland, so I'm kind of in a temporary accommodation here for the time being. So I just kind of unpacked all my equipment and everything to record this episode. But I think I'm good. So yeah.

And what's the weather like there? It is snowy, very snowy. But actually, the snow has just started to melt a little bit, so there's a bit of slush and stuff, but it's definitely very wintry. So much the same as last time I saw you in London then. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, at the top of every episode, I'd like to read a piece of feedback. This one is from DuckTapeCoder on Reddit.

A pleasant surprise. Feel like April Fool, but it's not in april so i hope it would stay well the good news here is we are going to stay so definitely not on april fool we'd like to hear thoughts about the show you can always reach out to us on twitter or email us at feedback at cppcast.com and don't forget to leave us a review on itunes all right phil so we do have a few follow-up items, right, from last time. Yeah. So first of all, as I mentioned in the last episode, we are now on Mastodon and I have finally got the domain name sorted. So you can reach us at mastodon at cppcast.com, as well as

Twitter, LinkedIn, and all the other places, but not Facebook. We're off Facebook now. And also one question that we did have last time that we didn't make explicit i've previously been the co-host of cpp chat and no diagnostic required and we've been asked if they're going to be continuing or they're now officially retired uh well i am officially retired from both of those shows uh there's a possibility that cpp chat may continue in some form um i don't know the details of that yet, but yeah, we sort of bound those up so that we can fully concentrate on CPP Cast. All right. Thank you, Phil. I also have one comment on one of the news items we discussed last time. So Rob and Jason asked me what programming language Fleet was written in.

And embarrassingly, I didn't know the answer, even though I work at the company that actually develops Fleet. So the short answer is that Fleet is written mostly in Kotlin, but some components such as the Fleet system daemon are actually written in Rust. So I just wanted to add that in there because I didn't know the answer last time. There is a blog post about that that we'll put in the show notes to go into a bit more detail. I do remember reading that at the time, and I was sure that it was written in Kotlin, but you were convinced that it was a native application. So I thought maybe it's changed since then. But yeah, it's Kotlin.

All right. So joining us today is Hani Sukeshan. Hani is an embedded software engineer who is highly passionate in design and development of embedded software. She is skilled in C and C++ programming. Her domain experience is in healthcare and automotive. She currently works as a senior software developer at Jaguar Land Rover, Ireland. She originally hails from the God's own country, Kerala, the southern state of India, but she now lives in Limerick, the riverside city of Ireland. Honey, welcome to the show. Thank you, Timur.

Thank you, Phil. First of all, Happy New Year, Phil, Timur, Rob, Jason, and to all the listeners of CppCast. Thank you very much for inviting me as your guest in this prestigious CppCast podcast. It's an absolute honour to me. I'm feeling much humbled as well as more responsible to C++ community. Well, thank you, honey, for coming on and helping us to reboot the show.

Happy New Year to you as well. While I was listening to your bio just then, I noticed a couple of interesting contrasts. First of all, you know, you moved from healthcare to automotive, and we're going to dig into that a bit more in the interview. But also you moved from India to Ireland. And I was just wondering if those two things were correlated. Did you move at the same time that you changed career?

How did that happen? Yes, I migrated from India to Ireland back in 2019 to join Jaguar Land Rover Ireland. So my career switch also happened, domain switch also happened, everything together. Right, right. Yeah, well, I say we'll dig more into the career side of it in just a moment. But yeah, I thought that was interesting. Yeah, so we'll get more into Hani's work in a few minutes. But we do have a couple of news articles to talk about.

So, Hani, feel free to comment on any of those if you like. So the first one is an announcement by CPP North, the Canadian C++ conference, taking place in July 17th to 19th, 2023 in Toronto, Canada. So they are now selling early bird tickets for the conference. And they also announced the four keynote speakers for this year. So Kate Gregory is going to be back as keynote speaker. And then there will be keynotes by Jessica Kerr, whom you might know also as Jessytron

on Twitter. And there's going to be a keynote by Ben Dean. And I'm actually going to do a keynote myself as well. Congratulations. Congratulations. So those are the four keynote speakers. And we do have also another conference announcement from last week from Using Stood CPP, which is the Spanish C++ conference. And it will be back this year as well. And that's taking place on the 27th of April in Madrid, in Spain. And so you can submit proposals for that until February 15th.

So there's still quite a bit of time to submit a proposal, but time flies faster than you sometimes think. So if you're interested in that, you should submit your proposal soon. And they're also still looking for sponsors. And you can find more info about that conference at usingstutcpp.org. And actually, I went to that conference once.

I think it was 2019. I actually had a really good time there so I might actually be going back this year haven't been to Madrid in a while um so last time I was there the talks were kind of half Spanish half English but this time José Daniel mentioned to me that all talks will be in English so it's going to be purely an English language conference which should be I think more friendly for people from elsewhere yeah I don't think i've been to uh to see a talk that's been half english half spanish before that that sounds a bit tiring

not not the talk like the the actual conference so yeah anyway um all right adding to uh tumor's point i believe phil would be the right person to talk more on C++ on C. I saw C++ on C's talk proposal is also open, correct? Yes, I think we mentioned that last time. The call for speakers for C++ on C actually closes this Sunday. So if this episode drops on Friday, as the usual schedule, you may have two days to get a talk in. So that's Sunday, the 8th of January, right? That's the submission deadline.

Okay. I should actually submit a talk as well. I haven't done that yet, but I'm intending to do that. So, yeah, thanks for the reminder. What will you be submitting, honey? I checked the date. I'm planning to travel to India, my vacation. It's 27 to 30 something right june yeah yeah so

i can't i can't next year then next year okay so that was quite a lot of news uh from the conference world um we do have also two other news items one is um from herb sutter um about his CPP2 project that he has announced at last year's CPPCon. So he has a CPP2 and CPP front year and mini update on his website. And so he mentioned just a few improvements that he's been making on CPP front and CPP2 kind of over the year and holidays, so like in the last couple of weeks.

So he mentions a bunch of kind of improvements to both the compiler and holidays, so like in the last couple of weeks. So he mentions a bunch of kind of improvements to both the compiler and the language. He mentions that actually six people have now contributed also to the project via pull requests. So it's progressing quite well. Yeah, there's quite a detailed blog post. So if you want to know what he's up to and what the progress is, you can check that out.

He mentions that there are notably no user-defined types yet, blog post. So if you want to know what he's up to and what the progress is, you can check that out. He mentions that there are notably no user-defined types yet, so classes. So he doesn't support that yet, but that's kind of the next thing that he's going to tackle. And so that's coming soon. And I think that's going to be a big step towards Cpp2 being actually a usable language. So that sounds interesting. Yeah, I had a quick read through that. And it was interesting because I hadn't really read much more about it since the keynote at CppCon. And one thing that jumped out at me was there was quite a lot of work going into unified function call syntax, which is something that we're probably never getting in C++, if past experience is any guide. So it's really nice to see that being played played out in cpp too and i might have another look at that all right and and the last news item for this time is um a blog post by

bartolome filipec um on his website cppstories.com and so he published this kind of overview of 2022 in c++ so um the the blog post is called kind of c++ in 2022 and it++. So the blog post is called C++ in 2022. And it's quite a long blog post. And I think it was a really good summary of everything that happened in the year 2022 in the C++ community. So it talks about, obviously, how the language has evolved, but also in C++23, which is upcoming,

where the current compilers are, like what C++20 and C++23, which is upcoming, where the current compilers are, like what C++20 and C++23 features, the current major compiler version support. He mentions one thing that I also saw on Reddit, actually, that GCC just added support for C++20 chrono, like time zones and leap seconds and all that other good stuff. So that's going to be in Lipstead C++ in GCC 13. So there's a long list of those kind of things, like where the different compilers are with

the newest features. He looks at past and upcoming committee meetings, conferences. He obviously has a section about successor languages. So that was, I think, the big topic in the community last year. So Carbon, Val, and CPP2. And we will probably get some content about those successor languages on this show rather soon. But in the meantime,

Bartholomew has a nice summary in his blog as well. And what I actually found most surprising and interesting in that blog post is that as one of the big things that happened in the C++ community in 2022, he mentions a chat GPT, like the AI chatbot. And he says that it will become a useful tool for C++ developers, or it maybe already is. So that was kind of a bit surprising for me to read and kind of interesting and thought provokingoking like whether chat gpt and similar like ai chat pods can actually be useful for people who work in c++ i used to say i'm in love with chat gpt

i recently um i mean i recently used chat gpt and it saved me some hours of work which i i should otherwise have spent on uh while doing an investigation task. So I had some investigations, I had some options to be tested. So I just tell literally tell

human-treatable to Charjeev Piti, give me a program this, this. So otherwise I should have spent hours on it too. Yeah, I'm literally in love with and i um noticed a cpp weekly in which jason mentioning um that uh then only i realized that so if we give a question uh to chat cpt to write a program uh jason was showing in was showing in the above program, replace something with something.

Then ChatGPT will give us back. So it's kind of very... So right after seeing that CPP Weekly, I tested this in my investigation task and it saved me a lot of hours of work. Yeah, I've heard people saying it can be a solution to refactorings in C++, which is notoriously hard to do the old way. So I actually asked chat GPT what it thought of CppCast,

and it was quite interesting what it said. A little bit outdated. CppCast is a podcast about the c++ programming language its standard library and the wider c++ community it is hosted by rob irving and jason turner so we're going to teach it and features interviews with experts and leaders in the c++ community as well as discussions on various c++ related topics in general podcasts can be a great way to learn about new topics and stay up to date with developments in a particular field. CppCast appeals to be well regarded within the C++ community and has received positive reviews

for its informative and engaging content. If you're interested in C++ programming, CppCast might be a good resource to check out. This is brilliant. I think we're gonna have to put that on. Yeah, I think we're gonna have to put that on yeah i think we're gonna have to put it's like a much better ad than anything i would have come up with certainly testimonial um all right so honey welcome again to the show uh yeah maybe to start off you can tell us a little bit about your background where you're from what you're doing now again i will start with my name because everywhere I go, people ask me, what is my name? It's how it's to be pronounced. So you heard it right.

I am Honey Sukeshan. My mom has gifted me the sweetest name on earth, Honey. And my surname, Sukeshan, is my dad's name. Thus, I become the owner of a unique name. And about my background, in a few words, as Timu has already mentioned, I originally hail from Kerala, which is the southern state of India. I love to call Kerala as God's own country. It is the way this used to be known.

And about my educational background, I did my bachelor's in computer science and engineering, and soon I joined a company named Nest. Nest is a multinational company, which is an IT service provider, serving industrial, automotive, healthcare, consumer electronics, and various other domains. I joined as a fresh graduate engineer at Nest, and soon I was deployed into embedded system divisions of Nest. And I remained in the same company for 11 years. And even, I should say, remained the same seat for 11 years. Later on, the company was acquired by another company called Quest Global.

Still, I remain there. And Quest Global is also another MNC, which is also an IT service provider, serving almost the same domains plus some additional domains like aerospace and various other things. So at Nest, I had the opportunity to work with various healthcare OEMs like Toshiba, GE, Cognitive, and Medtronic. So my programming experiences in C, C++,

and various on embedded platforms and real-time operating systems like embedded Linux, various laptops like QNX, et cetera. And so now fast forward. Now, four years back, we migrated as a family to Ireland to join Jaguar Land Rover Ireland. So now I work with Jaguar Land Rover as a senior software developer. So I'm in automotive domain.

So that's interesting. You were working in healthcare and you've moved into automotive. That sounds like a very different domain. So what prompted that change uh really i mean i love to be in uh that embedded system uh software verdict sorry so even back in nest or quest as we are a service or in service company we need to satisfy our customer requirements. So I stayed in healthcare domain for a long time because there was an organization restructure came at some point of time

where there was a healthcare business unit. So before that, embedded system was a horizontal domain in our company. So if you ask me, I had even worked with consumer electronics. I had worked with semiconductor projects, base projects, etc. But my fundamental experience for over years was with the healthcare domain. So to me, I don't feel much. I mean, I was not frightened when I switched domain. So to me, I don't feel much, I mean,

I was not frightened when I switched domain, because there also I work for embedded, like, embedded bots. The code which I wrote will ultimately go into embedded bots. Here also, the code which I wrote, the code

which I am writing is going into embedded bots. So to me, domain as you said, yes. So the code which I wrote, the code which I am writing, is going to Embraer Pods. So to me, domain, as you said, yes, I need to acquire knowledge. I need to understand more about the domain, but I love learning. So I thought it was a good change. Yeah, very interesting. So there is a lot of commonality between those two, despite the obvious differences that's interesting so um you mentioned that you're doing you're doing

automotive now which is kind of embedded platforms and i also saw a couple uh talks um that you did which are on youtube like i remember you did like a lightning talk uh at cppcon about drawing pictures of visualizing visualizing kind of design, right? Visualizing software design. You had like a talk on C++ India about solid principles. So kind of again, like kind of code design, application design. So it seems like it's a bit of an interest of yours. Do you want to just maybe talk, what are your technical areas of interest at the moment? So how, what's the kind of connection between what you're doing in the automotive industry, what those talks were about, and what is interesting to you as a C++ developer?

Yeah, my most favorite technical area of interest is definitely programming and software design and programming. So I love the hands-on work as well. So if you ask me my years of experience, I am currently 15 years of experience in software industry, but I still say I need to code every day and I need to design at least periodically. So my exact love is in software programming and software design other technical interest areas are reviews so i love to involve in design reviews code reviews then recently after coming to ireland i realized that i love teaching as well. So by teaching, I love, I start to,

since the pandemic, I started to attend various meetups, technical meetups, and I had the opportunity to participate in various conferences and I got inspired a lot watching the legendary speakers. So then I wished to become a speaker as well i definitely didn't do much but it's a slippery slope yeah so if you ask me my technical interest areas it's been growing as i grow older as well so i'm i'm trying to i mean i'm trying to broaden my uh prospect or like areas of interest but everything in the technical domain.

So you've given a few talks now, but they've all been online. Is that right? Everything was online. Because you've sort of started your speaking career, presumably during the pandemic. uh yes it actually i didn't expect to i didn't like uh when i in the cpp con i was actually uh provided a diversity has included community scholarship tickets so i just went there uh but to be frank um i i didn't expect to do a talk or anything like that so on the first day of the conference if you know michael casey michael casey was the lightning talk chair uh he was visiting every i think it is the first online conference of cppcon so he was um hopping into various online chairs i mean there was a table. Remo, I said, Remo.

Remo, it was in the Remo. So he was hopping into various tables and he was asking people, can you submit a lightning talk? And probably because I was the one woman in one of the chairs, he found me, are you interested? Do you have something in mind? Can it? So in one day, chair he found me are you interested have you do you have something in mind can it

so in one day i prepared a talk and i presented the next day so it is quite a coincidence so as i did my first talk in the greatest of cpp conference i got that confidence from there. But after that, I think I haven't given any talks in any conferences, but some meetups. And then I attended the meeting C++ diversity and inclusion panel one time. I was invited by Jens for that back in 2020 as well. So that's it. Right. Do you like speaking? do you think you're going to be maybe showing up at some conferences next year you said already that cpplc you're going to be on vacation during that time but have you considered any others or kind of continuing with that speaking career uh i am asked to do but only thing is that because of the traveling difficulties and all uh and i would definitely

do that but if there is i'm currently thinking more about that i'm being asked by many many people right now so uh it's an interest uh sometime i will do anyway so next year i have plans i have some plans if it starts out in the right position may may it happen yeah so would it be fair to say that your experience has been positive overall so far then uh very positive very positive after coming to c plus was uh i mean exposed to be in the c process community uh i have a lot of friends in c-process community by now and nobody has ever met me only only only in virtually so during the pandemic then you went to a lot of virtual meetups i understand so what was your experience there yeah um as everyone knows that

world come to a close during the pandemic. And I was like, after the work time, I don't know what, I mean, I'm of course a working mom, so I have a lot of work in the family as well. So other than that, I don't know what to do. So I was just searching in the internet and find these meetups, various technical meetups happening online. And as my first interest is C++, I see many C++ communities conducting meetups online.

So I just started attending and I started. I believe MU CPP was the first meetup group which I attended. And then once we are in the community, we'll know about others. So then I started once we are in the community, we'll know about others, right? So then I start with ME CPP, then I even started attending meetings, C++ meetups, then CPP India, and I don't know, a lot of things, a lot of meetup groups.

So I have only on CPP India, I presented a talk, I believe. And then that I was just attending the sessions. All right. We're going to come back to that in a bit. We just have a word from one of our sponsors. This CppCast episode is sponsored by JetBrains. JetBrains has a range of C++ IDEs to help you avoid the typical pitfalls and headaches

that are often associated with coding in C++. Exclusively for CppCast, JetBrains is offering a 25% discount for purchasing or renewing a yearly individual license on the C++ tool of your choice, C-Line, ReSharper and ReSharper C++ or Rider. Use the coupon code JETBRAINS4CPPCAST during checkout at www.jetbrains.com. Yes, so Hani, you recently joined the ISOC and C++ standard committees. So I'm curious how that happened and what was your motivation for that

and what do you expect from that? I'm just kind of curious. Again, that also came out as a coincidence. I came to know that boost foundation is looking for some c++ or boost developers to join iso c++ committee so i so that happened very recently in the month of december so i just applied and they came back to me so there was an interview and there was a short interview by two people from Booth's committee and

somehow I was selected. And I was first selected to ISO C++ standard committee. So when I get the login, I just check in. I see there is an option to join C committee as well. So as I

am interested both in C and C++ so i thought like i can join both so that's it so about my motivation three main motivation first of all my emotional attachment to c plus plus when you hear what is this emotional attachment to c plus plus i should say, C++ is the first programming language I learned when I was 15 years old. And I should say that I started learning C++ before I even found a computer. I haven't seen a computer at this distance before I learned C++. So if I go back to India, I definitely have to search for my, there was a diary, which I keep where I write programs. So for our, when I say it is 15 years old, so it means like, you know, we have something like higher secondary, so class 11 and class 12.

It's kind of a pre-degree. Before degree, we'll have class 11 and class 12. So in that, I choose a stream of computer science without knowing what is computer science. So then in my class 11 and class 12, I still remember the textbook by an Indian author called Sumita Arora. So the textbook was like introduction to computer science and object-oriented programming in C++. So first chapter was about what is computer, what are the components in a computer, like that. And the second chapter is hello world in C++. So and still after these many years,

C programming is my bread and butter and I have been in this computer science and software industry. So C++ was my gateway to computer science. That is my first motivation. My next motivation is my aspiration

to inspire women in Czech and people from underrepresented community and contribute in any humble ways back to the programming community. So I would love to hear my son telling me, my role models are my mom and my grandma. So my only wish is that if somebody asks my child, who is your role model? I want him to tell that's me. I am his role model. That's the only thing, nothing else, no other, no other hidden agendas or no other things. So I want my, my son to tell me as my, my,

me as his role model. So just inspiration for him. And the third thing is improving my own C++ learning. So at Workplace, we are using C++ 14. So C++ is growing very fast. So I know that if I am involved in community, I will be more inspired to follow and stay up to date with the C++ developments. And I can, of course, take all my learnings back to my workplace and to help our mentees at work.

I can also help in reviews or paper reviews and eventually sometime present a paper. Yeah, so I think that's great. Like, obviously, we do need more people on the committee with different views to different views to help us look at the papers, make the right decisions there. But also, there's something I found as well that a lot of it is not just helping to progress the C++ language, but also learning for yourself. I remember my very first committee meeting, which was, what was that, 2016 or something like that? At the time, I was like, yeah or something like that. You know, at the time I was like, yeah, I know C++ really well, you know, and then I came to a committee meeting and there were so many things, you know,

so quickly also coming up and like the first discussion that I was part of that I had never heard about before. But then kind of as you keep going to those meetings and you keep like absorbing the papers and the discussions, like you get like a much broader view of like whom c++ is used by or what is it used for or what you can do with it then you could do like just on your job so

um yeah at least for me i think that's i can definitely kind of identify with what you said about it's it's just as much about like learning yourself as it is about actually helping with the work so i think that's really cool i would never yeah, I would never say me as a C++ expert or C++ intermediate. I would say that I am a C++ lifelong student. Well, that's what an expert would say. So which national body are you associated with then? Is that the Irish one?

Actually, the application to Irish national body as well as the Boost Foundation happened in weeks difference, but I am selected by Boost Software Foundation first. So now I will be representing Boost Software Foundation. The application to Irish National Party is still on air I don't know whether they come back or not so you said you worked at

Jaguar Land Rover right so I think now we're going to have two people from that company on the committee because John McFarlane has been on the committee for a while now and you work with him as well right yeah okay so that's cool so we're gonna get more automotive people i think that's that's a good thing too um actually i had one more question so you um i've actually uh been aware of i have become aware of your work

through twitter where you've been active for a while now and also um hash include so um is there anything you want to say about about being part of those online communities and how your experience was being part of those? Again, coincidence. So I came to Twitter without knowing what is Twitter. But now Twitter, as you know, recently there are a lot of um things have things happening but still i learn a lot from twitter and i have a lot of friends i should say i have a lot of friends in twitter rather than real life so uh so yeah the i i try to be active in twitter

and then another thing is that about hashing loot, again comes as a coincidence. So I believe that they have seen some of my talks in CPP Corner and various other one or two talks, and they thought I would be fitting women in tech and women from an underrepresented community. And probably it is their aspirant. I mean, I would be a match for the diversity and inclusion.

So I am asked whether I can join as an organizer. So I have selected as an organizer, but to be frank, I couldn't contribute much until now. Sometimes, occasionally, I get into the Hashinglude Discord channel and whenever I get time, I'll put

some messages here and there, but I have not contributed much to Hashinglude. I should definitely do that. Yeah, it can be a bit overwhelming trying to communicate on so many I should definitely do that. Yeah, it can be a bit overwhelming trying to communicate on so many different mediums at once. I have to take some time out sometimes. I don't know what that's like.

So back at Jaguar Land Rover, what sort of things are you actually using C and C++ for? Is it both languages you're using or just one or the other? Yeah, my current project, we are using C++. In my current project and my earlier project, I started with C++. But when I started in July, I was using C for some time. So we are using C++ 14.

One of the things would be like as we work for embedded ECUs, so our platform because our platform is not supporting the newer version of C++ so that's the only thing which is preventing us from using the upper version so C++ 14

is the one which we are choosing right now. And another thing is that if you're aware of, we have Autosar C++ coding standards. So the last thing which came out was based on C++ 14. So the coding guidelines for safety critical systems for Autosar is based on C++ 14. Is that the same as MISRA or is it like a competing one?

Yeah. Autosar. Is that the same as MISRA or is it like a competing one? Yeah. AUTOSAR. It's more like a third-party evolution of the MISRA 2008 standard. But, honey, have you been following the latest MISRA standard that they're working on? I must do, actually. Sorry, I have to mention during the CPP corn, I was in Michael Wong's talk. I attended Michael Wong's talk, and I asked some questions during that talk. Then finally, Michael Wong asked me to join the SG14 committee study group,

which is the Embraer and the the standards uh study group yeah that's the low latency one right but i have been following st14 mailing list but till now i haven't attended my one of the newer resolution for 2023 is to start attending st14 meetings yeah i i do participate in st14 i think sometimes i'm not not every conference but not every every teleconference but usually it's it's usually quite interesting i think it's kind of all the low latency stuff right it's like gaming embedded embedded um so um finance there's quite a lot of finance people in there so actually this brings me to another question uh i'm kind of curious so i talked to somebody else from the automotive industry about like you know what what it's about and like how is it similar or different from other

embedded industries or other like industries where we do like low latency and real-time stuff like gaming or audio or finance or things like that and it turned out and i've never worked in automotive so i'm just kind of curious to hear from an actual expert but turns out it seems like automotive is kind of very broad like it's like a whole spectrum right so you have something like um you know the the navigation screen in your car which runs apps and that's probably quite similar to i don't know programming an app for a phone or or a tablet or a computer where you have like a good framework and like you know kind of normal operating system and things like that and then you have like a GUI framework and like, you know, kind of normal operating system and things like that. And then you have like on the other end of the spectrum, you have kind of the safety critical stuff or you have like embedded stuff where you have like a real time operating system. And it's kind of very different from kind of that world.

And you have like everything in between. So I wonder kind of where on that spectrum kind of you are and your interests are. I'm not in that fancy UI infotainment. I'm in that, I mean, background of the car. So, I mean, like I'm working embedded ECUs, but it is, but I should say that it's, the projects which I have been working, the ECUs were some of the core ECUs,

which manages manages communication. I mean, there will be a lot of data, like data signals that are coming, I mean, I would say data being communicated between various components in the car, right? In simple terms, I would tell like that. And for the connected car,, the controller which I work with was like a telematics controller unit in my previous project. So it will handle all the connected car facilities. And the other thing is collecting all the data,

forwarding to various other data kind of things. So that was one of the project. And my new project is also kind of a data management project inside, a data management ECU, which is inside the car. So, and now we are, as you know, automotive industry is going through restructuring everywhere. So with all these uh a lot of new technologies like um like connected car adas a lot of things so a lot of things happening

in the industry so it's kind of a cutting edge area which we are working so interesting as timur mentioned what what i feel when I switch from healthcare to automotive, one of the big difference which I feel is while I was working in embedded healthcare, mostly we know most of the projects where, like for example, I worked in a portable ECG monitor, I worked in an infant incubator, but we know the

system as a whole so probably the requirements almost by heart because its system is small we can kind of but for automotive it's it's crazy huge a lot of issues hundreds of issues are there and communications are there. It's kind of we can compare to C++ kind of an ocean. There is a lot of things, even the domain knowledge is, every time it would be ocean but when we do a project

we'll know the system as a whole. The thing which I feel is like in healthcare I had more understanding of the system which which i feel is like uh in healthcare i had more understanding of the system which i am working on here i i have broad understanding but will be deep the the the deep understanding will only be for the system which i am currently part of that's right so yeah i think one of one of the things that you said at some at some point i can also kind of i remember this from working in the audio industry.

When you said like you're on C++ 14 and you kind of have this contradiction between you go to these meetups and conferences and you read all those blogs and you listen to podcasts and you hear about, you know, all of the cool new features that are just coming out in a new standard. But then you're stuck on like three standards further back in your day job. And you kind of have this, yeah, this kind of contradiction going on. And I do remember that from the audio industry. So it seems like it's a thing in the car industry as well. Which standard are you using, Timur? Just curious.

So no, right now, right now I work in JetBrains. So we kind of, we write an IDE. So that IDE itself is actually mostly not even written in C++, but before I was working in audio. So I was doing like audio plugins and music software. And there, the trend now I think goes more towards like more modern languages. But back then, like a lot of people were using that c++ 11 like i remember like there was a requirement for a long time to uh support like mac os 10 7 for example because lots of

hollywood producers have these like old like power pc based macs in their studios i used to have at the time and so you kind of had to support them so you you were stuck on whatever you know mac os 10 7 the standard library there like offers you so you were basically stuck on whatever you know mac os 10 7 the standard library there like offers you so you were basically stuck on on c++ 11 and couldn't really move forward for a while if you wanted to support those users so that was kind of challenging and frustrating at the same time because you kind of want to use like all the new stuff but you can only really do that in your own like little toy projects so now i don't live in this world anymore. And I think that industry also moved on quite significantly.

The last audio company I was involved in, Cradle, we actually use modern C++. But yeah, I think it's interesting that you say that you're stuck on C++ 14. I think quite a lot of industries that have either do something embedded or have like very specific kind of platform requirements or things like that they just don't get to use the kind of the newer standards yeah i should say there that i don't get frustrated because i am

a c programmer as well so c and c pluses we are working in the change of day so so i won't get frustrated but again i i know like i but the thing is that i can't practice those newer features newer uh cool features at work that's it but i like in my mind there is like this this this thing's existing c++ like uh that's it one of the the piece of the feedback we got from the show was from somebody that said well they're pleased that the show is starting up again but they were they've gone back to the beginning and have been listening from the start and they got up to 2016 so far and maybe that's the best way to do it yeah yeah i need to go to you listen to the material from a few years ago and yeah what what was the latest then is what they're using now. That's a really cool idea. I should say that, like I forgot to mention,

CPP Cast, I was a regular listener. Again, one other resolution would be to be a regular listener from 2023 again. When it was like, I used to commute to work before the pandemic every day. And CPP Cast was my friend that time. So I used to listen to CPP Cast while I commute to work. So those times, for one and a half years, i was a regular listener nowadays i um i i i uh listen to your um new

the newer sorry the other episode christmas episode uh after the holiday season so it has been hold for for a while right so yeah and again another thing which i another thing which i want to ask uh tumor i remember you are the uh organizer of audio conference correct um actually not anymore so yeah um i used to be one of the organizers of the audio developer conference um since 2022 i'm not on the organization team anymore but yeah i was since we started it in 2015 i have to mention two other points as well. When you say JetBrains, C-Line is my favorite IDE.

And I recently attended Phil's talk on SonarLint Power of Clean C++, correct? Yes, that's right. Last month. No, December. It is very recent. I attended that talk also.

Yeah. We had a show note for that on the last episode. Yeah. If you want to catch that. So we're getting towards the end, but is there anything you do outside of C++ that you want to share with our listeners? A lot of things, but I won't be taking a lot of time.

So outside of C++, one thing I would like to mention is I'm a Tossmaster. Again, since I, since 2019. So after I migrated to Ireland. So I'm a Tossmaster for Limerick Toastmasters Club right now. So Toastmasters has made a deep impact in my personal and professional life. So probably that may be the reason I'm speaking like this here. So do you want to explain what Toastmasters are? Toastmasters is an international community for public speakers. So it is a it's an international organization

probably in 180 countries probably spanning. So it would be there probably in any every country probably. 144 countries. Alright. Yeah. Toastmasters International is a non-profit educational organization that teaches public speaking and the leadership skills through a worldwide network of clubs.

Headquartered in Colorado, organization's membership is approximately 280,000 in more than 14,700 clubs in 144 countries. That's a huge community. I have never heard about this before. It's a huge community. Toastmasters, Toastmasters International. I would say if you are public speakers, I would say you definitely should join. I should probably join.

Yeah, that sounds really interesting. I've never heard about this before. That's really cool. I will look it up right after this episode if somebody listened to this episode back from my old colleagues or old friends they will be definitely shocked listening to me because i am on my journey from an introvert shy to the worst extrovert one can ever be. So Tossmaster was one of the steps which I took. I would say one of, I always cherish the moment which I decide I join Tossmaster.

So that is one thing. Other thing is, other interests, if if you ask me i'm very much interested in arts all kinds of arts i'm not a performer or any anything uh so i love music i see field has a lot of instruments in the musical instruments in the background so yeah they won't make it into the show but i know okay so i'm i'm interested in music i'm learning uh south indian classical music for so many years now so i'm interested in art uh music uh all forms of art of course sorry i'm zero in sports and politics, other than that I have a lot of interest in a lot of things. And I love learning.

I'm a continuous learner. I get easily inspired by people. So that is one thing which I love these conferences and attending meetups. So I get a lot of learning from a lot of connections so another thing which i would like to mention is that my support from my family uh it right starts from my grandma uh was my all-time inspiration grandma is no more. Then my parents, my dad and mom, and my sister, and then my husband.

My husband is Shampu Dayal. He's also a software developer. He's a web developer. And my child, we have an 11-year-old son. That's me. You mentioned that you're easily inspired by other people but i think

you're an inspiration for for people for coming on today so thank you very much for that means a lot i just want to be become an inspiration to my 11 year old yeah but i think you've done more than that so we're gonna have to have to wrap up here. We could carry on talking, but do you want to tell us how people can reach you if they want to continue the conversation? Yeah, I'm active on LinkedIn as well. So you can reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Should I mention the link? We can put the link in the show notes. You can search my name on LinkedIn and I'm active on Twitter. Yeah, LinkedIn, Twitter, that would be... I'm there in Mastodon as well, but I have not started

active anymore. I can't manage many, many things, so LinkedIn and Twitter would be the best places to contact me. Okay, well, we'll put those in the show notes so people can find you there. So thank you very much for coming on the show today. Thank you so much. And did you have anything else you wanted to say, Timur?

Yeah, thank you so much, honey, for being a guest today. I think that was a super interesting conversation and looking forward to next time. Thank you so much. It's a good time to start a new year with being a host, sorry, guest as CppCast. And also I know that you are also restarting CppCast. So it's an absolute privilege and honor to me.

Thank you. Thank me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening in as we chat about C++. We'd love to hear what you think of podcasts. Please let us know if you're discussing the stuff that you're interested in, or if you have a suggestion for a topic, we'd love to hear about that too. You can email all your thoughts to feedback at cppcast.com.

We'd also appreciate it if you can follow CppCast at cppcast on Twitter or at mastodon at cppcast.com on Mastodon and leave us a review on iTunes. You can also follow me at timur underscore audio on Twitter and at timur underscore audio at hackyderm.io on Mastodon and phil at phil underscore nash on Twitter or at mastodon at philnash.me on Mastodon. And of course, you can find all that info and the show notes on the Postcard website at cppcast.com. The theme music for this episode was provided by podcastthemes.com.