Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - #195: CREATE Strong Connections With Your Cues! With Vanessa Van Edwards The Lead Behavior Investigator At Science Of People Title

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

In This Episode You Will Learn About:  The language of cues     Balancing warmth & competence    Taking control of your connections    Purposeful & effective communication   Resources: Website: www.scienceofpeople.com  Read Cues & Captive LinkedIn & Facebook & Youtube: @Vanessa Van Edwards  Twitter & Instagram: @vvanedwards  Take The Charisma Quiz  Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  If you haven't yet, get my first book Confidence Creator Show Notes:  There is an invisible language being spoken all around us that is impacting our daily lives. That language is the language of cues! We are constantly sending signals through our body language, facial expressions, word choice, and vocal inflections. Vanessa Van Edwards, lead behavioral investigator at Science Of People is here to help us learn how we can utilize these cues to showcase our skills with the MOST confidence. Stop getting lost in the cues and start communicating!  About The Guest: She’s a speaker, a researcher, and a nationally best selling author, and today she is here to share her wisdom with us! Vanessa Van Edwards is the Lead Investigator at Science of People, an organization that takes the most interesting research about people, and creates accessible and clearly formulated articles and workshops for people to digest. Her youtube page reaches more than 36 million people, and she’s well known for her viral Ted Talks! Vanessa’s book, Captivate: The Science Of Succeeding With People has been translated in over 16 languages, and she has been leading workshops at some of the top institutions, including MIT and Google, for over a decade. I am SO grateful to have her on today’s episode!    See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I want you to focus on the cues that get you that perfect balance of warmth and competence. When we talk about confidence, confidence is so important. I think confidence comes from purpose. I think that if you know you have an important email to send out with a really great announcement, you are confident. The cues that you're using in that email are going to get you the kind of response you want. Learning cues gave me a confidence in, I know exactly what I have to do. Warmth and competence, balance it out, warmth and competence.

So I want you to know exactly what cues you're sending. I don't want you to have any more accidental inflection, and I don't want you to give away any more opportunities. I'm on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we're going to chase down our goals. We'll overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close-up. Hi, and welcome back.

I'm so excited for you to meet my guest today, Vanessa Van Edwards. She's a speaker, a researcher, and nationally best-selling author. Over 36 million people have seen her on YouTube and in her viral TED Talks. Her behavior research lab, Science of People, has been featured in Fast Company, USA Today, CNN, CBS, Entrepreneur Magazine, and more. Her book, Captivate the Science of Succeeding with People, has been translated into over 16 languages. For over a decade, Vanessa has been leading corporate trainings and workshops to audiences around the world, including MIT, Google, Dove, Microsoft Comcast, She lives with her husband and daughter in Austin, Texas. Vanessa, thank you so much for being here. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Okay, I have to tell you what I get a lot of pitches on potential guests for the show. And sadly, I do not say yes very often. But I'll tell you. And I want to read exactly what your team sent me that I loved. And I know everybody listening to them, I love this. This is what they sent. There is an invisible language being spoken all around us that has an incredible impact on our daily lives. The language of cues. Cues are the tiny signals we send to each other 24-7 through our body language, facial expressions, word choice, and vocal inflection. Though our brain is incredibly

skilled at picking up these subtle skills, far too often the superpower is left on tap. Learning how to utilize cues is critical to showcasing one's talents, ideas, and skills with confidence. And that just blew me away because, I mean, Vanessa, obviously we all think about it right now. about it makes sense. Oh yeah, I get it, but never during my day or week, am I ever analyzing or being thoughtful or mindful about cues that are happening around me? You know, it's so funny because I think that was me for a long time as I was existing in my world. I was trying to show up as my best self. I was trying to bond with people, trying to connect. And then what began to happen is I noticed cues that made me feel uneasy. So it started off with some of the negative cues, right? So I'd be in a

meeting and I would, I felt off, right? I would either catch a funk or I would be like, does she mean what she's saying? First, I started this entire process over a decade ago looking for red flags. What are the cues that I should know that indicate that something is off? Because I kept having these intuitive hits that something was off, but I didn't know what I was seeing. And the very first one, can I tell you with the very first cue I ever was. Okay. So the very first cue I ever learned about, I was watching a Lance Armstrong interview. Way back in the day, he was on a televised interview, and he was insisting on live television that he had never doped in his life.

He had never used high performance drugs, okay? And he was adamant about it. And I remember watching this video and going, something's off. Something's not right here. It just did not feel right to me. So I began to look at what he did. So I watched the recording. I slowed it down.

I rewounded. I slowed it down. And there was a moment right before he said, I have never taken a pharmacy enhancing drugs where he did a very specific nonverbal cue called a lip purse. A lip purse is when we mash our lips together. So we press our lips together into a hard line. So I go into the research. I love research. I'm a total science geek. I run a human behavior research lab. I go to the research. And the lip purse is a nonverbal cue of withholding. It's literally like your brain is saying don't say that. Don't say anything more. Keep it in. Keep it. it together, keep it in, keep it together. And I was like, huh, why if you were about to share your confession or share the truth, why would you be withholding something? And of course, it came out many. Spoiler alert, spoiler alert. I didn't know the end of this story, but spoiler alert, he was under, had a massive undercover goping scheme. And I found that like the lip purse is one very small example, that it's a signal, it's an invisible cue or a visible cue that we don't realize is happening,

of internal withholding. And so when you're in a meeting, when you're in negotiation, you see your partner, your colleague, a friend, lip purse, withhold,

you should stop right in there and say, are we all good? This makes sense. Everything okay? We're on the same page. I have found that that one cue opened up my world.

That was one of 93 cues, right, in the book, that one cue was like opening a world. It was like opening a world. Because when you address that or ask the question, you're giving them the opportunity to empty their glass to you?

Yes, I think there's two aspects here. I've always wanted to show up as the most empathetic, compassionate communicator that I can, which means that you're trying to hear the truth. You're trying to accept people's truth. I noticed that looking for cues actually allows me to listen on a deeper level. So if someone lit purses, and I give them permission and safety and belonging to say, are we all good? Is there something okay?

So much so that I'm willing to stop my agenda, whatever I'm going, through whatever I'm talking about to be like, are you good? Is there anything that I'm missing? So one is I find that people are often relieved. They're actually like really one of the very first times I used this. I was in like a business picture presentation. There's about six or seven people around the table. And I noticed from our decision maker, a lip purse. And I was on a very specific slide. And so I said, you know, I'm just going to pause here. Any questions? And I actually looked right at him and I opened up my hands to him. So one of the cues you'll learn is the universal gesture of openness is we open our two hands towards someone, as if they're coming in for a hug,

right? Like, it's like the, it's like the open arms. Yeah. Open arms. Literally. Exactly. So again, we get these intuitively. So I open my hands to him and I angle my body towards him, which is called fronting. And I said, are we all good? Do you have any extra question? Just want to pause for a second and make sure you feel good about this. And he went, oh, you know, I'm a little hung up on one thing. And it was the smallest clarification on our payment plan that I could. I could. addressed it immediately. And he was like, oh, great, great. Yes. Yes, we're all on the same page. And I went, whoa. If I had barreled along in my presentation and not addressed that, he wouldn't listen to any of the next 10 slides. He would have been hung up on that one cue. And afterwards,

he said to me, you know, I loved how responsive you were. I actually was just looking for cues beyond the verbal. So it opens people up, but also it shows people that you really deeply care about what they have to say and what they have to share. I mean, this is brilliant. And as I listen and I'm going through all of your materials, I'm saying, I want to do this. However, here's the thing. And I'm sure you have an answer for this. Everyone's moving so fast.

People are nervous going into meetings, right? The fact that you were presenting and confident enough that you were taking breath and recognizing what's happening around you, that in and of itself, in my opinion, is a win. Most people are not doing that, right? They're barreling in. They're panic. They're nervous. they're intimidated, whatever. So how do you advise to people or even people who might not be nervous,

someone like me who's saying, I'm afraid I'm going to get busy and I'm going to forget to do this? You are so right. So the biggest hurdle we have in this science is cognitive overload. Two, our brain is trying to do too much. You are absolutely right. And that is what we have to fight. So here's the good news is when I started out in this journey and I was cataloging all these clues, you know, in a spreadsheet, right? And I'm like, how am I going to remember all 93? of these cues, right? So that's when I found some amazing research. This is back from 2002, so it's very well-established research. And what they looked at is what are the cues, what are the traits that are most important interaction? We can't get them all, right? We can't

be open and trustworthy and leaders and powerful and capable and likable and friendly. It's too much, right? So they narrowed down. There are actually only two traits that we have to focus on to be most effective. What they found is the most highly charismatic people differ from control groups. So the high, think about the most charismatic person you know, that secret sauce, what makes them charismatic, what they found in the research is just two traits. And that highly charismatic people rank off the charts in just these two traits, which is warmth and competence. Here's where it simplifies the process. I'm writing that down right now, by the way. Yes.

Please write down. So, and by the way, if you're listening and you can write these down, so warmth, that's trust, likeability, friendliness, collaboration. Okay, warm. That's that bucket. then you have competence power capability efficiency the problem is is it the smartest people i know the most successful people i know might focus all of their energy on one of those traits they show up and they try to blow you away with their competence they name drop they mention their accolades they're like data data term vocab and what do you think wow they're impressive but i don't like them

they're really powerful but they're not very friendly i wouldn't want to go to one lunch with them. Whereas on the other hand, you have people who put all of their eggs in the, in the warmth basket. So they just want to be likable. Like me, like me, like me, like me. They tend to be people pleasers where they struggle with saying no. And they just want to be as friendly and likable as possible. That's great. Everyone likes them, but people interrupt them. People don't take them seriously. People don't listen to their ideas. So the key, the sweet spot, why charismatic people are so rare and we're so drawn to them is because they hit both warmth and power. We like them and we trust them and we rely on them. They get stuff done, but we also love

chatting with them. So this is all I want us to focus on is I want you to focus on the cues that get you that perfect balance of warmth and competence. That's it. Those are the only two. And so if you know that your default, so for people listening, just for a moment, which one sounds more like you? So I have this little quiz. Let's just do it together. You want to do it together? Yes. Let's do it. Okay. So I'm going to read off 12 words, and I want you to pick the three that sound most like you. Okay, so you're only not to pick three. Ready? Impressive, powerful, smart, trustworthy, collaborative, kind, capable, compassionate, effective, open, expert team player.

Passionate, effective, open. Okay, so you picked three words, two warm words and one competence word. That's incredibly important because that's a snapshot into where you fall on the charisma scale. Are you higher in warmth or you higher in competence? So if you listening picked two competent words and one warm word, you're a balance, but you lean a little bit higher in competence. If you pitch all warm words, it means you have to balance out with competence.

You've picked all competent words, and we'd have to balance out and warm. So the only cues that I want you to focus on are the ones that help you hit that sweet spot. So warmth cues and competence cues based on your balance. That makes sense. It's sort of like a scale that we're trying to balance. So is this something that you truly believe you can teach people to be charismatic? 100%. I think the biggest mistake that people make is that they think that you can only be born with it, right?

That if you're charismatic, you're either born with it or you're not. Actually, the most charismatic people are incredibly purposeful. with their cues. It happens in two ways. So for cues, there's two sides of cues. There's the decoding and the encoding. I don't want to get too science-y, but I love that. I can't help, but I love the science.

So with cues, first, we decode. We read other people's cues. And the second thing is we encode. We send cues to others. And if you listen to highly charismatic people, talk about how they communicate, you'll notice they are always purposefully dialing up or looking for cues that will help them. So for example, one of the stories I love is Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist,

famous author, TV show host. He says that he's highly competent, right? He's an astrophysicist, so he is very obsessed with the facts. But he realizes if he's too competent, people tune him out. It's too much science. So what he does, he has a test. He's had, by the way, multiple bestselling books. He says, when I'm trying to decide what I'm going to put in a book, I go on an airplane,

I sit next to someone, and I begin to start. tell them about my work. Every time that they eyebrow raise, so raise their eyebrows up, he says that I put in a book. Everything they don't eyebrow raise, I skip from the book. In other words, he's even using cues to tell him what's the warmth that he's missing. What are the warm, interesting things that he can add? So an eyebrow raise another warmth cue that you can show to increase collaboration and trust, but also that you can look for it to see if someone's interested or engaged. Oh, that's so interesting. And thank goodness that guy didn't sit next to me on a flight because I purposely put earbuds in my ear because I can't stand talking to people on airplanes. That would have been a wasted little airplane ride for him. I think he would have seen you as a challenge. I think he would have liked it. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh, Quince has you covered with lux essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing, and building a wardrobe that lasts. Their versatile styles make it easy to reach for them day after day. Quince has all the staples covered, from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear.

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slash confidence free. You know what's so interesting when you were talking about, you know, the warmth and the competence and being self-aware as to which way am I leaning more and how could I potentially level that off or be more equal on the scale? This is so crazy. This is what popped into my mind. Immediately. Fact.

I was fired four years ago for my job. I was a chief revenue officer. Everyone listening already knows this, but I'm sharing with you. in case you don't know. And she, the woman that fired me was previously the CFO. She became the CEO. And when she became CEO, fired me immediately. That's just backstory. But she was incredibly leaning towards the competent side, like very articulate, many awards, you know, very much a numbers person, always rattling off numbers that blew people away, you know, in any moment in time. She had zero big egg on the warmth scale. However, and I worked with her for 14 years.

And woman was complete antithesis of me. And what was interesting is I remember the last two years, and you'll like this, you'll tell me, Heather I coached her. The last two years I worked with her, she started showing up differently. So weird, because I knew her. You know when you know someone, you know who they really are.

So I knew this is not real. This is just my opinion. But nobody else knew that was not in the C-suite with her, that didn't spend a lot of time with her. Other people would say, gosh, she seems just fantastic lately. You know, they'd be saying really, positive things about her. She's really changed a lot as she's gotten older or she's become a mother or whatever reasons they would create storyline they'd create about her. Yeah. And I started thinking it from a

standpoint that I see something very different about this person. I'm very confused. I don't know what's going on. However, I see it's landing. It's landing with the team. It's landing with people. It's working. So, you know, to your point that this can be taught and it's not ingrained from day one, you're 100% right. I've seen it. However, it's very weird to see it happen. And it's very weird to see it happen to someone when they're not disclosing it openly to you like hey i'm working on my warrants i'm trying to come you know like that would have been better for me the kind of person i am i would have preferred to have heard that so that's exactly right i think that as you begin to change your cues i mean you're kind of doing a body language makeover in a sense by the way body language is only

half the book we also can talk about imagery and verbal and colors i think it's so important to broadcast this right to say you know sometimes i can come across a little cold you know i i got my last feedback review or my team told me I was a little bit intimidating, that's not okay with me. It's really important to me that you feel safe, that you feel connected. So starting at the beginning of the year, beginning of the month, I'm going to be working on my warmth, my openness. I want your feedback. I would love to hear from you, but I'm going to really try a dialogue because I want you to feel good. That is so powerful because two things happen. One is it has you state your goal, gives you permission to reset, right? Like sometimes we need a presence reset. Like sometimes we just

know that we're like a funk with someone or like we've had some difficult relationships and we need a reset. So that sort of is a soft reset, a soft restart on the button. The second thing is verbal. So some fascinating science that we don't realize is the words that we use change people's perceptions of us as well as their actions and behavior. So for example, in one study, I love this study. I think this is like mind-blowing. I ready? I literally read it three times and I was like, how? Okay. A researcher named Brian Wansink told participants to come in his. his lab and eat a bowl of yogurt. The catch was, is it was all in the dark. So they come into the lab, it's completely dark. He hands on a bowl of yogurt. He has to eat the yogurt and he says,

would you please rate the yogurt on its strawberry flavor? So imagine for a second, you're in the dark, you're eating a bowl of yogurt and you're trying to decide how strawberry is this flavor. 59% of participants rated the yogurt as having a nice strawberry flavor. But there was a second trick. There always is. The yogurt was actually chocolate. Strawberry and chocolate tastes totally different. It wasn't like strawberry and raspberry. What happened was, and this is one of many experiments, that shows the power of our verbal priming, when Brian Wansing asked participants to look for the flavor of strawberry

and search for the flavor of strawberry, the brain hurt strawberry, the mouth tasted strawberry, and then therefore they felt that it was very strawberry. We are constantly telling people what yogurt they're eating. In other words, we say, hey team, this is how every team call starts. Hey, everyone, we have some company up there. dates to go over and so I'll review everything. Let's wait for people to get on and we'll just get started in a few. You're basically telling people, go to sleep. This meeting is going to be like every

other meeting you've been to, the tone of voice I use. And also I used words that didn't mean anything, right? I said, let's hop on a call. Let's review. We'll get started in a few. What research is found is that when people hear words like collaborate, their brain actually begins to prepare to collaborate in their prefrontal cortex, and they are more likely to be collaborative. So if you tell people, you know what, it's so important to me that you feel connected, that you feel that you can trust me, that you feel that we can be open. So I am working on a little presence reset. I'm going to work on my collaboration.

I'm going to work on my trust and openness. I want you to feel safe to tell me anything. Just telling people those words changes how their brain is working. You are actually setting them up to be more open, trusting, warm, and connected with you, which is incredible. I think we throw away these verbal opportunities. Yeah, that's mind-blowing. It makes perfect sense. And I'm a big fan of we're teaching people how to treat us, you know, our word choices. You know, we are showing people how to respect us or not respect us either way, which is, you know, similar to what you're saying. But it makes perfect sense. But wow, that's incredibly powerful.

And what a great hack you just gave everyone to use. We make it even more practical. So I think this makes sense to us, right? Like intuitively, a lot of these cues were like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Here's a really practical way to think about it. I want you to do an email audit. I want you to open up your sent email folder. And I want you to open five important emails you've sent out in the last few days. So important emails to whoever, your colleagues, teams, customers. And I want you to look at the first 10 words that you used. What we don't realize is that we are throwing away our words with words that don't mean anything. Or we're jumping right into agenda, which is okay when we're rushed. But you're actually taking away cues that people need to be successful. And here's the kicker. In your email audits, in those important emails, I want you to count how many warm words you're using and how many competent words you're using. We found in our lab, we can predict exactly where people fall on the charisma scale based on the email audit I just asked you to do. So we can see, based on their emails, exactly how their colleagues would rate them. And that is because we are constantly looking for these warmth and confidence cues. So if you open up an email, a highly competent, words trigger productivity and efficiency. Highly warm words trigger trust and collaboration. And by the way, exclamation points are highly warm. Emotions are highly warm. Of course they are. Right. So we have people who will say to us, you know, Vanessa, I don't know why people are not taking me seriously. I don't know why I can't

raise my rates. I don't know why that I can't charge people more. I don't know why people feel like they are always showing up late. They're not responding to emails. We open up their email and I'll count 15 warm words and one competent word. Hey girl, exclamation point. It was so fun hanging out last night. Fun, hang out. I would love to collaborate on this new project coming up. If you can get back to me, it would be so wonderful.

So wonderful, exclamation point, smiley face. So we're already like eight words. And it's a very, very warm email, but it does not trigger the competent part of our brain that goes, I should get back to her. I want to pay her rate. I want to make sure that I take her seriously. So the next push is, okay, you do that email audit.

I want you to see, is it warm or competent or nothing at all? Right? So it'll either be totally sterile. So no, warmer competent weren't or one or the other. And then how can you purposefully add verbal cues that set you up for success so that the important emails, not every email, no one has time for that, but in the important emails, you have a perfect balance of warmth and competence. In my slide decks, my presentation is on our website, even on my Instagram, for every

warm photo, I have a competent photo. Every confident photo, I have a warm photo. Because we saw our engagement shot up and we're hitting that balance. That's unbelievable, but yet makes perfect sense. And of course, I'm thinking of myself. And I just recently won a big recognition about speaking. And so I purposely and intentionally reached out to all my past clients, people who are pending in the queue, you know, just to like try to push people over.

And I'm thinking of the email. And I, because I didn't want to come across to, I'm the greatest thing in the entire world. I definitely went way more warm, warm, warm, exclamation point, and I'll tell you, Vanessa, I did not get anywhere near the kind of responses I thought I would get back.

And now I'm thinking, I don't think I was competent enough in the email. Yep, exactly. And I think that you just made the classic mistake that smart people make is we don't know how to be purposeful. When we talk about confidence, right? Like confidence is so important.

I think confidence comes from purpose. I think that if you, know you have an important email to send out with a really great announcement. You are confident. The cues that you're using in that email are going to get you the kind of response you want. I think that that's where confidence comes from. I joke that I'm a recovering awkward person. I get very socially anxious. I always doubt myself. I used to doubt the kind of emails I wrote. I used to doubt the way that I stood, what I did with my hands. Learning cues gave me a confidence in. I know exactly what I have to do. Warmth and competence. Balance it out. Warmth and confidence.

And that's been my backdoor into confidence. So the reason I share this is when you're sitting down to write an important email where your heart is like, you know, those emails where you're just like, oh, like you're pitter pattering, you're asking for that raise or you're checking it on your boss or you're selling that email with boundaries. I want to take that anxiety way by saying, all you have to do is get warmth and competence. That's it. If you can balance it out, it's going to be more effective email.

And so I'm hoping that we can take down some anxiety and get confidence in a different way. So tell me a little bit about your new book, Q, and how people are going to feel after they read the book to apply some of the stuff back to their life. Yes. So I'm hoping this is going to give everyone a sort of social blueprint, right? I think that we have all these goals in our life. And a lot of the times they're, you know, career goals or family goals. And then when it comes to like the actual action steps behind those, especially to the social action steps, let's say that one of your goals, what's a common goal for some of your listeners that I can like play with two or three common ones? A common goal. A lot of people want to leave their day job. They're not. happy with their day job and they want to make a leap. Okay. So let's say that you want to leave your day job.

And that requires doing informational interviews with influencers. And that requires setting up some side hustle things by maybe getting a partner. You could break that into tactical things, right? You could say, okay, I have to, you know, figure out how much inventory is. I have to do a marketing plan. I have to do a revenue sheet. But there's also a lot of soft skills involved in that. For example, how can you leave your job on a high so that you can leave. on good terms with your boss. That requires a lot of really good, powerful connecting and conversations in the three or four months leading up to your quitting.

If you want to reach out to a new partner, how do you make sure that they want to work with you? So yes, it's about setting up the coffee meeting, but it's also, okay, if I want this new partner to take me seriously, if I want them to respect me, I have to make sure that I have a warm and competent opener. It's like, how do you even open the email to them? When to actually get them at the coffee date, what kind of questions should you be asking that hit that balance of warmth and competence?

So for example, a lot of people will start a coffee date to bond with, so how's it been going? Man, those numbers, right? Those COVID numbers, they are rough. And you end up on this like awkward downward spiral. And all of a sudden you're like, well, the reason I wanted to talk to you today is and you haven't built up any of this rapport yet. So one of the things I want you to think about is how can you use these skills to build

rapport with people that actually work with you? So, for example, in conversation, warm, competent conversation are things like, like instead of how are you, in fact, try never to ask, how are you? Instead of ask, working on anything exciting these days, that's like my secret competition starter because it's both warm and competent. Working, so productive people, exciting, warm, trustworthy, fun. So working on anything exciting these days, you'll actually see people will be like, oh, huh, you know, I am working on something exciting. So you're actually beginning to, from the very start of the conversation, those first 10 words of your opener are beginning to open their mind to trying something

a little bit different, not just how are you, you know, has it been, have you been busy, but trying something a little bit different. Wow, that is really very powerful. And I love that you give these specific examples. I mean, it's just, it's not something that we're strategically thinking about every day, yet this can really be a game changer for people. I think they're hidden opportunities, right? Like when my team and I were thinking about how to reach out. So I'm so happy that that reach out worked a lot of this hidden language. The other aspect of that is that there's all these opportunities that are just waiting for us. What an amazing missed opportunity to just instead of saying, how are you or how's it

been going or how's the fam, but just slightly changed to working on anything exciting. It was the highlight of your week. So what have your goals been this year? Those are the questions that begin to deepen and make you more memorable and make you talk about things that are more well incompetent. Those are just opportunities that are like easy to grab once we know how to grab them. Gosh, I love that. And I'm totally going to rip and run with, I've been taking notes a whole time that we're sitting here talking. So to me, you're bringing me a lot of value. That's what I want you to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, I know you talked about there's more two cues than just a word choice. For example, where you sit in a meeting,

there's actually better decisions to be made there. Yes. So we don't realize that there's cues in so many aspects. So obviously, we talked about body language, the lip purse. We talked a lot about verbal kind of our openers. There's also, you know, spatial cues, relational cues, there's vocal cues we could talk about. I love the seating ones. So I was looking at the rules of space. So across cultures and dinners and races, we have rules of space. So when we're closer with someone, we like someone, we want to get closer. And research has found that there's actually four different space zones. Those are the personal zone, the intimate zone, the social zone, and the public zone. What happens in our interactions is we're not aware that we're doing these. We're

subconsciously going through them. But we know, have you ever talked to a close talker where someone gets really close to your face? I don't like that. Right. We don't like it because that person has gone into our intimate zone too quickly. So what I realized was that when we're sitting around a boardroom table or a conference table, your spatial choice, there's actually research that's done on this, makes a huge difference for your effectiveness. And that depends on your goals in the meeting. So if you have a goal in a presentation or a meeting where you want to be on the bosses or the or the decision maker's front of mind, you actually want to be in their direct eye line, their direct sight eye line.

Being the closest to them will help you whisper or talk to them. But if you want to be front of mind or top of mind, you're actually better off picking seats that are in their direct line of sight. They also found that the seat that faces the door actually typically is the power player seat. And that's because they can get everyone's first impression as they walk into a room. So if you want to be the power player, you might consider taking the seat that faces the door or that sees the door. So there's all kinds of really interesting rules that we can think about

even when choosing our seat. Again, there's an opportunity that we get, right? It's like one that we haven't noticed our whole life, but actually is just waiting for us to pick up and try. I always thought, you know, if I was with my old boss and I wanted to be, you know, I wanted my agenda to win in the end. I would sit right next to him. I never thought sit across the table so he has to look at you the entire time. And that never crossed my mind. Yeah. And that's a goal alignment, right? Like a lot of these cues, it's like, okay. what are your goals? Is your goals to be coming across as competent and efficient and capable? You have to get stuff done today? Okay, competent. Dial up the competence. Is your goal all about

collaboration, trust connections? Less not getting things done. Okay, dial up the warm. Is your goal in a meeting to really get in with the decision maker? Sit across from them. Is your goal to not be seen and to let someone else take the stage? So on the side. Is your goal to be whispering in their ear occasionally, but not be front of mind? Sit right next to them. Right. Like there's no right or wrong cue. It's all basing your goals. Wow. Yeah, that's really, really powerful. So I have to selfishly ask a question. So I've been told that, which I can't believe, because I don't see myself like this, and I'm sure you must hear this from a lot of people that you deal with in research you do. I've been told I can be very intimidating in a meeting or in a presentation. And I don't see my,

I think I'm the biggest knucklehead out there and I'm hilarious and that I should be dialing up on the competent site. You know, that's just my opinion. However, I get feedback sometimes from people who I know are trying to help me give me this. this feedback. What suggestions do you make to someone like that who doesn't really see themselves as having that problem? Oh, man, I would say that you're in the boat with most people. What's crazy about that research that I brought up from 2002 that's been repeated by a number of different academic institutions is that while warmth and competence makes up 82% of our judgments of people, so a huge majority of people, most of us are terrible at assessing our own warmth and

competence. We are terrible at assessing it. So here's the first thing is I have a free little quiz you can take to assess your warmth and competence. It's science people.com slash charisma. It's free. It's up there taking as many times as you want because of this exact problem is it's hard to step back and say, well, I think I come across as friendly likeable, but I don't know. So first one I want you to take the quiz. Here's the harder one. I want you to send that quiz to a colleague, a partner, and someone important to you and ask them to take it as you. Wow. I bet that It's very telling. It's horrifying and very telling and extremely helpful because A, first to start with yours.

Okay, great. I took this. It's 10 questions. It's very simple. You take it. You're like, great. I see that how I see myself is highly warm. You sent it to a colleague, a friend, and a VIP, and you get to see how they see you,

which is incredibly helpful to know how accurate am I and how I'm coming across. I think I'm coming across one way, but I actually want to come. come across a different way. And it also might be different based on family versus colleagues. And that's good, right? Like, we want to be warmer with our family. I want to be with my toddler. I'm very warm with her. I don't need to be competent until I'm telling her the rules. And I, as a parent, use these specifically with my daughter and my family. When I need her to be safe, or I need her to listen to the rules, I am highly competent. And she knows. She knows what mama's competent, right? She knows what I mean, what I mean. But every other time, I'm warm.

And so if you wanted her to see you, you're trying to give her direction, you're thinking about the inflection of your voice, the way you're standing and your word choice. And my eye contact and my gestures. For example, for competence, volume is that where we talk about in the whole vocal section in the book, volume is a really important part of our power. Most people think that, oh, I just have to be louder to be heard. Actually, that's not true. So when I want to be competent with my daughter, I speak really low.

And I say, Sienna, it's not okay. We either do that. That is not okay. What we need to do instead if we need to pack up our bags, I'll need to go home. Okay? But like that is much more serious than that was a lower volume. So even using our volume, using our vocal inflection, another example is so a warm inflection is when we go up at the end of our sentences. So if I were to say, my name is Vanessa, my name is Vanessa, I go up the end of my sentence.

That is a highly warm introduction. And I can usually predict by just listening to how someone says hello in their voicemail if they're more competent. So a highly warm voice smell sounds like this. Hi, this is Vanessa. I can't get back to you. Leave a message after the tone, right? It drives me crazy, but so many people do that. Okay. So those people and go listen to your voicemail are usually highly warm. And I can predict usually that they're highly warm. Highly competent folks use a different inflection. They use the downward inflection. Actually, if you want to hear a really good downward inflection, former president Barack Obama would sling his words down. That's a downward inflection. It's very, high incompetence. So downward inflection would sound like this. Hi, I'm Vanessa. I'm not here right now.

They have a message after the beat. So I go down into my sentences. That is very highly competent. So even the way that you use your inflection to your children on your voicemail at the start of a meeting, if you're at the start of a meeting and you say, hey, everyone, I just want to get started. Let's get started. Let's get started. If people are not going to listen to because it's not competent, if you say, everyone, let's get started, let's get started. Let's get started. Let's get started. You're like, whoa, it's serious. Right. So even I'm the same person and both sound like me, but very different kinds of meaning. Very different kinds of meaning. And you can, you can utilize either one strategically based upon the environment that you're in. 100%. I want you in control. I think

confidence comes from control and purpose. So I want you to know exactly what cues you're sending. I don't want you to have any more accidental inflection. And I don't want you to give away any more opportunities. This book is brilliant. Your work is brilliant. Tell us, where can everyone find Q's and how can everyone find you? Oh, first of all, thank you. That's so kind. Cues is available wherever books are sold. It's also already picked up internationally.

So Amazon, your local bookstore, and I also read the Audible book. If you want to hear me do the inflections in the whole vocal, in the whole vocal chapter that took a while on Audible, I do the whole Audible book as well. Oh, my gosh. And tell us about your website that everybody can go to for the quiz. Oh, yes, of course. So scienceofpeople.com. So if you want to take the free charisma quiz, as many times as you want,

It's science people.com slash charisma. If you also want to check out some of these phrases, the words I use and you can go to the words I used. You can go to scienceofpeople.com slash podcast and download. We have 20 trust, warmth phrases and 20 competent phrases. If you're like, I just don't know how to do this, that will help you with your email audit. This is unbelievable.

So unique. Love the work you're doing, Vanessa. Thank you so much for being here today. Oh, thank you so much for having me. Thanks, thanks everyone for listening. And go be warm and competent. be your best help. Absolutely, guys. Until next week, keep creating confidence. And if I was you, I would grab Hughes on the hurry. Until next week, see you then.