Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - #25: A Mindset for Success with Sara Blakely & Jesse Itzler

Episode Date: October 22, 2019

Heather interviews husband and wife duo Spanx founder Sara Blakely and entrepreneur Jesse Itzler live on stage at Hypergrowth Boston. Sara tracks her career from selling fax machines door-to-door to creating a hugely profitable company by manifesting success and letting go of what others think while Jesse speaks on how he turned each of the “fails” in his career into a new opportunity. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

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I'm so excited. You're back here with me. Thank you for making it this week. And you are going to flip about this episode. I am so grateful to everyone at HyperGroGroft. growth for giving me the opportunity to share this interview with you. It is the interview of a lifetime. And I'm so excited for you to hear it. Can't wait to hear what you think. So this week is a really big week for me. Saturday, I am giving my first TED Talk. And it's interesting because

I'm learning so much about TED Talks, because all I do now is obsess over watching every TED Talk in the world and reading about TED Talks to really immerse myself and figure out if there's any tips or tricks, you know, on how to make it better to connect with the audience and to get this thing to go viral. So I'm really, I'm really all in on this TED talk. And the challenge is, you only get 10 minutes. And I always thought TED talks were 18 minutes. But apparently, you get whatever you are given by the TED board that you're working with. And for the TED Talks that we're doing in Boca Raton, TEDx, it is 10 minutes. So, It's tough to tell a story, share an idea, and be concise enough in 10 minutes.

It's a lot to accomplish. So I'm hoping that I was able to do just that. And I am going big or going home as always. So I'm really trying to focus just on the TED Talk right now, which is crazy because this week is there's a lot going on. I'm actually giving a speech on Wednesday at a media company on Thursday. I'm flying to New York to support the book launch of a good friend of mine, standing O Encore. I actually wrote the foreword for the book.

So I'm flying to New York for that. And then I'm heading Friday to the Boca Raton, TEDx, VIP sponsor party, which all the speakers have to attend. And we do some media as well as be there to support the actual event. Then I'll drive home and come back the next morning to actually do. my talk after we have our walkthrough. So it's kind of a crazy week. And my son is heading to a marine biology trip for three days. So we've got to get him packed up with all of his gear, sleeping bag, water bottles, you know, all this crazy stuff. So it's just, I'm trying to just focus primarily on the TED Talk and make sure that I've got things in motion for the other elements

that I have going on. But, you know, really my TED Talk is the big focus. So, the following week, it's funny. I'm actually going back to New York and I haven't even booked the flights. I haven't booked the hotel. Well, I actually haven't booked my hotel for this week either because that's how laser focused I am on the TED Talk. So, you know, again, just trying to prioritize and let other things go knowing that they will get worked out in the end. But I'm so excited for you to hear this interview. This again, literally is an interview of a lifetime and I'm going to cut right to it because you're going to be blown away by Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx, and her husband, Jesse Itzler, a serial entrepreneur and unbelievable guy. And I'm so grateful I got

the opportunity to interview both of them. If you did not catch hypergrowth in Boston, you've got to catch hypergrowth in San Francisco. It's an amazing event where you get to meet thought leaders. And I got the opportunity to interview Sarah. and Jesse live on stage, and now you get the chance to hear it. Can't wait to hear what you think. So hang tight with me. I'm Sarah and Jesse. And as was just mentioned, you guys have had a lot going on in the last week.

Yes, that's definitely true. Not much sleep. Not a lot of sleep. In case some of the people here don't follow you on Instagram, can you kind of break down what Last Man Standing was all about? Yeah, so I just, that's the reason why I'm wearing flip-flops. I just got back from a race called the Last Man Standing. You guys hear me okay?

Cool. Okay. It's like an operator. And the format of the race is you run a 4.2 mile loop. You have an hour to do it. And if you finish earlier, you can rest. Finish in 15 minutes. You have a 10-minute rest.

And then they line you up again at the top of the hour. And you do it again. And you keep going until one person is left. So my wife, it was in Maine. And when I, well, when I Googled it, it said that there was, um, moderate elevation. Yeah. If you live in Maine. It was crazy terrain.

So I ended up, I just got back. I did 20 hours, 80 miles, and I came in fifth. I think that deserves a round of applause. And my wife was the last wife standing. Yes, I win last wife standing. I didn't sleep for 35 hours, so I was supporting him, and it's really challenging. I said at one point I had a breakdown, I think at like four in the morning, where I just started crying because I said marriage is hard when you have to really support each other's dreams, and especially if you have to watch the person you love suffer. And Jesse had a pep talk with me before it, and he said, no matter what, tell me I look good, tell me I look strong, don't pull. me out of the race. Don't tell me that you're worried about me. So I didn't say to say it like this, ooh, you look, you look good. That's true. That's true. But it was really a wild experience of just human spirit. You know, what we all have inside of us, that grit and determination. And

there were 112 of really intensely impressive ultra runners there. And wow, it was just blown away by by mindset, really, because I asked Jesse after this. I mean, Jesse's 51. So I said, honey, even though you didn't get the last man standing, you definitely won the oldest man standing. Because he was 10 to 20 years older than every other racer in this race. And yeah, so, and so I said to him, I was so curious because I knew mindset. I'm a huge believer in mindset. And I said, what was your mindset and what were you thinking during the race? And he looked at me with laser focus after it and he said, I was saying repeatedly to myself,

I push my body and my body responds. And boy, did it ever. I mean, because his knees, his ankles, I mean, the rest of his body really, I mean, was shutting down. But his mindset was there. And that pushed him. I would say, I mean, at mile 47, I thought you were done. I love you, but I really.

I was like so worried. And then like, you know, you just can't, you can't ever doubt the mindset. If the mindset of the person's in the right place, then they just go way beyond what you expect. What's interesting about this race is, you know, you can get lost in how long it's going to be or how long, what the distance is. And it's like anything you're doing in your entrepreneurial journey or any challenge, any goal. It's really just being laser focused on what's happening right now. what's the most important thing and not getting not patting yourself on your back for all your

achievements like oh i got to mile 25 or whatever and not thinking about how far you want to go it was literally just saying super present and i always say be where your feet are and right here i'm in this loop i'm in this loop right now let me get back to the to the chair get my little rest and go on the next loop right now this is my job to get to the loop and that was the focus wow it's very very impressive and if any of you guys want to be super entertained and inspired. It's on my Instagram page at Sarah Blakely, and it's in one of those, you know, I put it in a permanent circle in the bar below the descriptor of my name, and it's called The Last Man Standing. And it's really, it is very... Yeah. You have to check it out. Her Insta stories

are really funny. So Sarah, you mentioned mindset and the importance and effect that mindset has not only for Jesse, but, you know, people look at you in your company today and they think you're enormously successful and it was probably always that way. However, you were a salesperson at one point in time and had a very different life. Do you attribute the things that have happened in your life to mindset? Or what do you attribute that success to? Yeah, definitely mindset. I mean, I sold fax machines door to door for seven years after graduating from college. And I, You know, for 20 years, Spanx is going to be 20. I started it in the year 2000.

And the sound bite in the media has been, Sarah cut the feet out of panty hose and solved an undergarment issue. And, you know, now Spanx is here. And while that is true, there was so much more about the behind the scenes of why this happened. And people have asked me, can I have 10 minutes, 15 minutes of your time? I want to pick your brain on how Spanx started. But that real answer is it started way before I cut the feet out of my panty hose. and it started when I was much younger, and I had a series of kind of tragic events happened to me when I was in high school, and it led me to Wayne Dyer, who is a motivational, inspirational speaker. He passed away about two years ago, but I got exposed to him, and I listened to his cassette tapes over and over and over again. To the point that I had his one series called How to Be a No Limit Person, memorized all 10 cassette tapes front.

and back. Try living with that. Well, yeah, that's funny because in high school, no one wanted to get stuck in my car. Like, after a party, they're like, she's going to make you listen to the shit. And so, but then, you know, I said, I think I would take simple things like, I'm just going to do the laundry tomorrow. And she'd be like, do you know the ramifications of waiting until tomorrow? So, but then fast forward, you know, I think it was 10 to 15 years after high school.

school that I ended up on the cover of Forbes. And the text I got in my phone were so funny. I mean, literally all my friends were like, damn, should have listened to that shit. But I'm a big believer in it. I learned early on about manifesting law of attraction, not caring what other people think about you, which is a really big one for an entrepreneur or, you know, in life, really. And I'm a work in progress on that. There are times where I do care and I check myself and say, you know, let's work on this. But it's very freeing to not care what other people think. You'll take more risks to not really focus on the outcome and be so afraid to fail. So all of that is a big part of my journey and Spanx for sure. So I think mindset is, I work on it

daily. We all need to. I need to get those cassettes. Jesse, you didn't start out an MTV rapper. You didn't start out owning an NBA team. You were sleeping on couches for quite a while, which people I probably find hard to bleed. Do you attribute your success to mindset or what do you attribute it to? I think, well, I definitely have my own version of mindset. When I have a goal, I like to say that's the end of the movie. I go to the end of the movie first, where I want the outcome to be. And that's unwavering. I don't negotiate that. I don't try not to ever negotiate my goals. The script changes, the plot changes, how you get there. You have all kinds of. the obstacles, but the end of the movie really never changes for me. So that's my form of

visualization and how I kind of attack it. Sarah, you mentioned that you didn't share your invention with anyone for that first year. Why would you take that approach instead of enlisting others to help you or support you through that? That really came from a gut feeling. I really honor my gut and intuition a lot and still do through the journey that I'm on. But when I cut the feet out of my panty hose and started Spanx, I had actually asked for the idea two years prior. So I was selling fax machines. I had one really bad day. I'd been kicked out of an office again. I mean, I got usually business cards ripped up in my face about once or twice a week. I got escorted out of buildings all the time. And this day was just hard. I mean, I'm seven years into 100 percent

cold calling to sell people a fax machine. And I pulled over and I said, I'm in the wrong movie. How did this happen? Call the director, called the producer. This is not my life. Like I, I'm redirecting my life. And I went home and I wrote down a list of what I'm good at in the positive column and strengths. And I saw sales. And I thought, okay, well, what is it about sales that I'm good at? And it led me to the fact that I like to offer people things that they may not know they need and then really makes a difference for them. And I wrote down in my journal that night, I'm going to invent a product that I can sell to millions of people that will make them feel good. And then I looked up in the air in my apartment and I said, I'm ready for the idea. If you give it to me, I won't squander it. And two years

later, I cut the feet out of control top pantos one night to wear white pants to a party and not have a panty line or anything show because guys, you're out there in the audience. I don't know how many of you struggle with what to wear under white pants. But it's a legit problem that we have. And so I cut the feet out of my pantyos one time and I thought this could be the idea because I had already set the intention for the idea to show up. So, but as soon as I started on the path of it, I thought, okay, I don't want to tell anybody my idea because I feel that ideas are the most vulnerable in the moment that you have them. And it is our human nature. that the minute we have an idea, we tell our friend, our co-worker, our wife, our husband, boyfriend,

girlfriend. And in those moments out of love and care and all the right intentions half the time, the person might say something that completely squashes it or makes you not pursue it. So I didn't want to tell my family and friends, and I have very supportive family and friends, but I didn't want ego to have to get involved too early on in the process. I wanted to spend my time pursuing it and not defending it. So at night and on the weekends for two years, I would sell fax machines during the day, and then at night I would stay up and I was working on the patent,

and I was doing all my research and taking vacation days to drive to North Carolina where the manufacturing plants weren't begging them to help make the first prototype. But that is really why. And I have to say, I mean, everybody in their life has a million dollar, even a billion-dollar idea. I mean, we, we do. They- I haven't had mine yet. Well, you do. And I feel like recognizing it is a big one. And then also, you know, holding it sacred for me. And I'm glad I did because I sat my family down a year later. And all they knew was Sarah's working on some crazy idea. And a year later, I sat him down and I said, okay, guys, are you ready? It's footless panty-hose.

And I mean, they were like, so sweetie, if it's such a good idea, why hasn't anybody else created it? And then someone else in my family was like, well, honey, you know, and even if this is a good idea, the big guys are just going to knock you off in the first six months and you will have spent your savings on this. And if I had heard those things in the moment that I had it, I probably would still be selling fax machines or something like it. So I really believe that. I believe that you got to really protect it. Now, it didn't mean I didn't tell people that would help me pursue it. I was telling lawyers having them help me try to write the patent.

I was cold calling manufacturers and talking to them. I just didn't seek out people simply for validation until I knew I'd put enough of my own sweat equity into this idea that no matter what the validation came back as, I wouldn't waver. That was a tweetable moment for me. I'm going to spend my time and energy pursuing it, not defending it. I think that's really powerful. Do you see ideas the same way that they need to be nurtured and protected? Or were you more, I mean, because you created a lot of different companies and concepts over your career in life.

Did you bring people in earlier on or did you take that same approach? Well, I have to agree with everything. We're married. So, of course, I agree. No, I think one of the most important things as an entrepreneur I found is figuring out how to get from point A to point B, the fast. And if that is telling someone or if that, in my case, maybe it was getting a key investor, getting a celebrity as part of Zico or one of our brands, whether it was a key partnership, I think that's been a critical part of my journey because when I started out, I did sleep

on 18 different couches. The one thing I needed that we all need is we need a story. We need momentum. People buy into stories and momentum more than they buy into products. like we're the business plan and when I started out I started out in the music business I had a record out on a label called delicious final and right when my album came out I did a club MTV which is a big show on MTV at the time I was 21 years old and I thought like wow man mom I made it I'm on MTV this is unbelievable and I did my first show in Pittsburgh and I got off the airplane in Pittsburgh and

when I got off the airplane there was a huge newsstand and on the cover of this big magazine called rap pages at the time was my picture. And I'm like, holy shit. I'm on the cover of rap pages. And I'm like, I'm like, this is unbelievable. That was like doing on Forbes for Sarah. Like I'm on rap pages. And I go and I get the magazine and the cover of the magazine with my picture on it was, are white rappers ruining hip hop. That wasn't this. I have not heard this story. Well, I want to tell you what the married me. So, I'm kidding. So, so. So, so. So I needed a story. I needed a story. So for me, at that age, you know, it wasn't about when I had an idea telling people. It was about getting momentum. And I went to the New York Knicks with an idea to do a theme

song for the Knicks. I was 22 years old. And I said, you know, sports is changing. People sit in seats for three hours in an arena, but the game is only 48 minutes. So you have to entertain him for over two hours. Let's do a song and a video and we'll get all the celebrities in New York. The song was called Go New York. And the Knicks page. me $4,000 for the song. And by the time I paid the studio, the engineer, the singer, the producer, the drummer, it cost me $4,800 to do the song. So is that a good business model? When you want more, start your business with Northwest Registered Agent and get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business. All in one place.

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Right. They paid me $4,000. They paid me $4,000. It costs me $4,800. Do you guys think that's a good business model? Wrong. That's an amazing business model because I would have paid the next, right. I would have paid the next $5,000 to do.

the song for them to help me get the point B faster because now I had a story. And I could call up the Bulls and be like, I did the Nick song. And every team that came into Madison Square Garden was like, why don't we have a song like that? And that was what really jumpstarted my career. So for me, it's like, how do you get from A to B the fastest? And then you wrote and produced a song for the NBA that actually won an Emmy. I did. And then you created another company out of this concept, right? So it actually was a good business model losing $5,000. Yeah. Well, I mean, we figured out the business model after that.

It wasn't sustainable. But it got me in the door and it got me momentum. And, you know, I always tell people that ask me if they're stuck, if they're overwhelmed, small wins. Just, you know, even in this race I just ran, we all go through this period in any part of our journey where we're overwhelmed with self-doubt. Anybody, no matter what you're doing, even as a parent, as an entrepreneur, as a marketer, someone's bad, I'm not good enough. I don't have what it takes, whatever. We go through this period of self-doubt. I had it in my race. I started off. I was like, I couldn't run four miles. And once you get momentum and you start to believe and you can have something that you can

build on, that's super powerful. Yeah, I mean, you've got to create your own height. Small wins. For sure. That's reminding me. I mean, for the first four years of Spanx, I wore a black t-shirt with S-P-A-N-X ironed onto it, that I went to one of those t-shirt shops and took a white letter and ironed on Spanx and cream pants. But I was the advertisement. So I wore that everywhere I went. And then when I got a chance to sell it in Neiman Marcus, I would bring my friends to the store to act like excited customers. And they would stand around my display table and go, oh, every time we'd like cue it. We'd be like customer coming. And this like really fancy lady, you know, perfectly dressed would be walking up.

and my friends would all go, tell me more, what is this? I can't believe I'm just finding out about this. And it would always cause the customer to go, what, you know, what's happening? And then I'd be like, yes, I get an opportunity to explain it to her. I love that you brought that story up. Would you mind sharing that story of how you sold it into Neiman Marcus because that is such a great face-to-face and it just pulls on that past track record that you had with the cold calling and how it paid off for you? Yeah, so when I first landed, Neiman Marcus was my first account. and two things about that that are just something that I reflect back on. One is everybody in the industry after I landed Neiman's came up to me and said,

how in the world did you land Neiman Marcus? And I would look at them and I'd say, I called them. What do you do? And they'd say, oh my God, we go to trade shows and we set up a booth and we've been doing it for seven years. And everybody says around year six or seven that you get a chance with Neiman's. I didn't even know there were trade shows. So I often say what you don't know can be your greatest asset if you let it.

If you're not intimidated by the self-talk of I have no idea what I'm doing and that shuts you down. So if you can power through the I have no idea what I'm doing and actually see it as a positive and go, that means I'm going to do it different. And that's where you break real ground. It takes a lot of courage and a lot of willingness to look stupid and potentially fall on your face. But that's where the magic is. So anyway, I got a chance to go and cold call Neiman Marcus. I flew on a plane from Atlanta where I live to Dallas, and I met with the buyer, and she was impeccably dressed.

I'm in the intimidating Neiman's headquarters. I had my lucky red backpack from college. I had the prototype and a Ziploc bag from my kitchen and a color copy of the packaging that I had created on my friend's computer. And halfway through my pitch, I was telling her what it is, and I could tell I was losing her, you know, after seven years of cold calling. and trying to sell things to people, you get really good at reading nonverbals. And I always say nonverbals tell you way more than the verbal. You know, when people sit there and shake their head and say,

I love it, and I'll call you tomorrow. You're like, oh, my God, Mayday. You know, that's when you pull the shoe and say, I've got to like try everything. And so she was kind of doing that. She was like, okay, thanks. And I just stopped and said, you know what, Diane, will you come to the bathroom with me? And she literally was like, excuse me? I'm like, I know it's a little weird, but can you just follow me

the bathroom and I'm going to actually show you what my product can do. I'm going to go in the stall. And she was like, oh, okay. And she walked down the hall and I went in the stall and I put it on under my white pants and I came out. So I showed her before. And then I showed her with the product on. And she just sat there and she goes, I get it. It's brilliant. And I'm going to try it in seven stores. And I was like, that deserves a round of a plus. I love that story. Thank you. So you guys talk a lot about humor and embarrassing yourself, poking fun at yourselves in business and in life and have a lot of fun with that. And we mentioned specifically on Instagram, can you talk a little bit about what that looks like?

I just think we both, you know, don't take ourselves super seriously. And humor works. Humor's fun. I think one thing we've both had in our entrepreneurial journey is we've had fun. And I think a lot of people forget how fun it can be. And we work on making it fun. We try to do fun things, incorporate fun things into our household with our kids, with our cultures, at our companies.

And it's an important part of the process. I mean, I would say to add to that, I recognize that the two biggest fears that we all have as human beings are basically the first. fear of public speaking and the fear of being embarrassed. And so I want that to lose its power over me. So I will intentionally embarrass myself or I will intentionally find scenarios where I'm not good at something. And then I go through it. And it usually ends up making me laugh. Or if something ridiculous happens to me, I immediately want to share it with people because then I start to find that it

loses its power over me. And then you also find that when these things happen, if you can make somebody else laugh or smile, then it wasn't all in vain. And that's where real human vulnerability and connection happens, especially even with your customers. So I learned that from selling fax machines. I mean, anytime I tried to act perfect or put on the perfect pitch, I got kicked out time and time again. You know, if I walked in and was like, look, I'm, you know, I'm nervous. It's hard for me to walk through your door, I'm sorry. I know there's no soliciting sign. I mean, I would get farther with that, but just calling out the humanness and the real of what we're all dealing with and not being afraid of it. So we do that at Spanx too. We have oops meetings at Spanx where we have the

whole company get together and we stand up and we share what we failed at or an oops or a mistake that we made and everybody claps and it's just like diffuses it. That's such a great culture. I believe we actually may have a video or two that we can share. I happen to be a huge fan of this one bird video. If we could cue this video up, the Instagram stories. Lovely. Yeah. Oh, great. Okay. I see him. I see him. I see him looking at me. My husband has been running every day on this island and says a bird attacks him.

So I'm on the walk with him where his jog got this because I don't believe him. Honey, where? How bad can it be? Come on! I'm not going to get past this walking spot. spot. Nothing's attacking me. He's fine. I see him and he's fine. See, the bird's there. He's not going to bother you, Jess. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. That bird, that bird, that bird, no, Heather, that bird is not raised properly.

That curve was ridiculed as a kid. I'm so happy that you shared that video. I had shown it to my son after I'd gone to interview you and I said you know, Jesse's such a great guy. And I was showing it to my son. He said, Mom, I thought he was a really strong kind of guy until right now. I ran the same route every day and I would come home and Sarah would say, how was the run? I was like, the run was great, but I got attacked by a bird.

Every time. And she's like, it's impossible. You got a comethy, and she walked by, the bird didn't care. I walked by and the bird went bonkers. It was very personal, obviously, for the bird with Jesse. I don't know. Maybe they thought your hair was a nest, honey. I don't know. Fantastic.

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Keep the unicorns alive! Show up every day with Coca-Cola energy. Energy you want, taste you love. I'm afraid on this, and you guys are not going to be shocked now. Sarah, you actually spent some time doing stand-up comedy. Were you petrified to do that? Because now it seems natural. feel like you could just grab a mic and walk around to it?

I was so petrified. I did it when I was selling fax machines door to door, and I have this thing where if something terrifies me or if I think I would never do that, and the answer is because I'm scared, it kind of becomes something I really want to try to do, and that was one of those things. And I just did open mic mostly around,

I did it around the country for two years while I was a trainer for the company that I worked for. But it was terrifying. I mean, I was so nervous. And I wasn't that good. It sounds like the hardest job in the world. It's the hardest. Well, it's, I mean, it's taking the number one fear in America,

which is public speaking to the next level, because you can be in front of an audience and be bombing and not really know, you know, like the whole back section could be asleep or on their phone and you still ramble on. But if you're doing stand-up comedy, I mean, you get validation or you get crickets every 15 seconds. So it's like the most immediate, like, you're failing, you're not failing, you're not failing. And the only way to test it is in front of an audience.

So you have to be so willing to bomb in front of a group of people. So please laugh at our jokes. Yeah, exactly, or to learn what's funny or not funny. So I, yeah, it was, but you know what? I didn't know it at the time. This combination, see, I wanted to be a lawyer, but I'm a terrible test taker. I'm not good in, like, I have trouble with reading comprehension. so I'm sure I have some sort of undiagnosed learning disability.

But anyway, so I did debate all through high school and college and then I get to the L-Sat and I bombed it, not once but twice. So it derailed my whole vision of being a lawyer and that was really depressing at the time. And then I naturally then went to Disney World and tried out to be goofy. And you have to be 5-8 in order to be goofy and I'm only 5'6. So I'm the height of a chipmunk. So like this was rock bottom for me. I mean, my family, everyone's like, what's happening? I said, I'm too short to be goofy and I don't want to be a chipmunk.

And so I just started selling fax machines or to door because it's really, I mean, it needed a pulse to be hired there. And so anyway, but the stand-up comedy, I did. But life has a weird way of giving you these experiences because when I started Spanx, the combination of the amount of rejection I had had was perfect. to start a company because I was told no every day for two years. The idea is no good. No, thank you. We don't want to help you. We think this is stupid. Whatever. And it didn't really phase me. And then the writing comedy for two years while I was doing that helped me do all the writing for Spanx

and the marketing. And Spanx didn't advertise for 16 years. We became a household name and a household brand around the world without ever advertising. And I believe we did so much of that through humor and through the connection that we had with our customer and storytelling. Jesse mentioned it. Lead with story. Your customers are so much more interested in why than they will ever be interested in what. What you're selling, why you're selling it, why you're doing it, who are you in the world, what matters, what's your why? That is what people really respond to. So if you can do it and make somebody laugh or smile, it's so much better. I mean, you have a chance of them telling five other people, which is what happened with Spanx. You know, it became a word of

mouth brand. Jesse, did you have that same experience that Sarah had getting into stand-up comedy, being afraid of it when you became a rapper? Was it that same, you know, we were petrified it? Or did you gravitate towards it? Well, the first, right when I got signed to my record label, Delicious Vinyl, they had two huge acts at the time. One was the guy named Tone Lokes. I mean, might not remember Tone Loke. Yeah, wild thing, funky called Medina. The other was a guy named Young MC who won a Grammy for his song. called Bustamu. And I was one of the next artists signed to the label. So before my album even came out, I got a call from the owner. Wait, Jesse was best known for two songs.

Shake it like a white girl and college girls are easy. Please Google it. Please Google it. So anyway, so I get a college. Which I had a lot of fun telling my dad. You know, I was like, dad, dad, I think I met the one. He's like, that's nice, honey. What does he do? I'm like, he's a rapper. That's known for Shake it like a White Girl and College Girls are Easy. people buy into stories. This is all part of the plan. Anyway, before my album came out, I got a call from the owner of the record company

who said that they're having this huge concert in Atlanta, where we live now at the Georgia Dome, and they were busting in 36,000 inner city kids from all over the state of Georgia for this concert that they coined the Increase the Peace concert because they were going to have black artists and white artists come together in this community bonding event. And the day before the concert, Vanilla Ice canceled, and they needed a white rapper.

So they volunteered me to be the white act. So I get to the venue. And as soon as I get there, I recognize immediately, like, the place is unruly. There's fistfights going on. They're putting the house lights on and police are everywhere. And the kids are booing. Every single act that came on stage, they booed them off stage. So the first guy up was like LL Cool J in his prime.

And they booed LL Cool J off the stage. I'm sitting over here in the green room about to go on next to sing my song called Shake It Like a White Girl. So I called my mother and I said, Mom, I got a really big problem, man. They're booing LL. And she was like, sweetie, just be yourself. They're going to love you. And I get up on stage and the NC's like, you know, all the way from California, give it up from my man, Jesse James, which is my stage name. Do not Google it.

And as I'm going on stage, the record company gave me some T-Chi. shirts, like promotional t-shirts. So I grab them. And as I come on stage, I'm like, I'm looking at the kids in the front row and they're pissed off. Then I'm even invited to the venue, but I have these t-shirts. So I'm like, does this section over here want some free t-shirts? And the kids go crazy. I threw them out. I'm like, this section over here to my right? You want some t-shirts? They went nuts. I threw them out. I'm like, middle section. You want some t-shirts back there. They went bonkers. I threw them out. I said, thank you very much, salt and pepper something next. I got the fuck out of there, man.

Never let him boo you. Never let him boo you. It's like the first rule I got in business. No, I'm not doing stand-up. How animated is this man? Oh my gosh. I can't take it. Okay.

So, Sarah, after you had made it, you made a very shocking decision, in my opinion, to really put yourself out there and go on Richard Branson's reality TV show. Why did you make that decision? You know, I read his book in college. and I really thought he seemed like such an interesting guy that I would like to know. And so that was the start of it.

And when he declared that he was doing his own version of The Apprentice, his own reality show, I just thought this was a great opportunity to meet him. And he started Virgin overseas in London. He's just a really colorful, fascinating, adventurous guy. But he, yeah, so Spanx was four years old at the time, and my lawyers literally begged me not to do it. They're like, why would you ever do a reality show? You're the face of this brand, and you're putting your reputation over to Fox, and you have no idea how they're going to edit you or what they're going to do.

And I just had confidence that Richard, from what I'd read about him, wouldn't be a part of something that wouldn't edit me the way that I am. but I got a 27-page contract before I did this, and it was the most insane contract. It literally said we can burn you, we can submerge you underwater, we can drop you in political unrest. I mean, it was like insane. So my dad is a lawyer, and I emailed it to my dad, and I said, Dad, I'm thinking about doing this reality show. Can you help me edit the contract? And all he wrote back was no sane person would sign this love dad. And I signed it.

And I went. Which is a great influence on our kids. Yeah, we have not let the kids see the video footage, but it was two months of the most intense stuff. What they didn't tell me, but I should have figured out and put the two and two together from the contract was that if you lost the business challenge, each business challenge took place in a different city around the world.

So instead of every challenge being in New York City, one was in Hong Kong, one was in Africa, one was in Tokyo. It was wild. We were traveling all around the world. But if you didn't win the business challenge, Instead of going to a boardroom and just being fired, you had to do a world record-breaking, death-defying stunt with Richard. And two days into filming, I literally was in Atlanta and the Starbucks line like the day before,

and then the next day I'm in England, and they woke me up at three in the morning and handed me a helmet. And I said, I'm an entrepreneur. Why do I need a helmet? And I had to scale the side of a hot air balloon at 10,000 feet in the air and have tea on top of the hot air balloon with Richard. And you're afraid of heights. And I'm so afraid of heights. Like I cry on planes. I cry during takeoff.

I don't like heights. Yeah. So that was crazy. And that was the first day of filming. But Jesse can't even watch it. Jesse's watched like half of the first episode. The stunts got so ridiculous. It was like, Sarah, climb the scale to the top of the building and jump in this glass of water.

And then when you're in the one, we're going to throw you in with the sharks. And then you swim around and come up. I was like, what? This is crazy. So you guys weren't married back then? No. He didn't know me that. But, yeah, so. Was it worth it now when you look back? Are you glad that you did that? I'm so glad I did it. I mean, I think that I don't think I would have done the challenges if I was a mother at the time.

But I wasn't. I was single and... Definitely not. Yeah. But yes, I'm so happy I did. I mean, Richard's actually a great friend. I'm actually going to Switzerland this Friday with Richard and about 35 entrepreneurs from around the world. doing a physical challenge through the Swiss Alps to raise money for education. And I'm not like my husband. I'm not this physical, you know, challenge person, but I had had too much tequila when

Richard asked me if I wanted to go. And I said yes. And so now I'm going. I hate it when that happens. I'm slightly terrified. But we're going to swim, bike, and hike through Switzerland. And it starts with a glacier lake swim in a full body wetsuit. Well, just in case you guys haven't, you can't picture this or haven't seen this show, we brought you a clip.

Oh, you have a clip? Which clip is it? Is it a balloon? Can you cue the next challenge is that we're going to go up into the top of the balloon. Something I've never done is not going to be easy at all. On the top of the balloon, we're going to have a tea party and have a discussion. Being hoisted out on the ladder suspended at 10,000 feet on the side of a hot air balloon is terrifying. I am so scared. Cheers. That is impressive. I'm in a full sweat. I'm in a full sweat.

I'd rather run for 20 hours. That was so intense. There was so many things about that, but it took me 48 minutes to climb. It was a dangling rope ladder, so there was nothing anchoring it. So I spent the first 25 minutes of the climb just flailing around in the air. And then the last 20 minutes, I kept saying, just get to the balloon, get to the balloon. But once I got to the balloon, the balloon was hot. And the rope was very taught against the balloon.

So I'd know where to put my fingers anymore around the rungs of the ladder. So I'd use my fingertips. And then once I did the little T thing and was like, ooh, that was great. I started bawling because I'd realize I had to climb down. Oh, my gosh. I was like, wait, how do we get down? So we had to go back down the ladder. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh, Quince has you covered with lux essentials that feel effortless and look polished.

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what an experience so so jesse you have an online community build your life resume community which is really amazing. Check it out if you guys haven't seen it. All right. We got some teams here. Yay. Awesome. So some of the feedback, Jesse, that really pops out at me, the things that people like the takeaway is the brownie. What is your unique brownie? Can you share what that means and how you develop that? It's just a reference to a story when I was in college. I took, I was a crossroads my senior year of college. I was either going to the music business, which I loved, or I was going to sell a product called Aunt Franny's Brownies. I had a

roommate in college that had an Aunt Franny. And every month she sent us a shipment of brownies and I don't know what she put in the brownies, but they made everybody happy. Like, I can market these. Like, this is going to work. So for my advertising class senior year, we had to create a fictitious brand from scratch, soup to nuts, like, you know, jingle, which I was good at, Billboard slogan, packaging, everything. So I said, I'll use this advertising class as my R&D department. And if they like my Aunt Franie's Brownies presentation, I'll just roll. it out and I'll sell brownies. So the way that the final exam was set up, there were 100 kids in the classroom. It was small. And everybody had a hand in their campaign, but five people were going to

get picked at random to present a 30-minute state of the union of the business they were going into, the industry they were going into in front of the class. So like, I'm a senior in college. There's a 5% chance that I wanted to get picked. Like nobody prepared for the oral presentation. You didn't want to get picked. And sitting to my right in the classroom was a guy named Ronnie Cohn. Ronnie Cohn was a professional jackass. No, Ronnie Cohn bullied half of the class for four years of college. So when the professor said, we're going to do this the Democratic way. Everyone write down your name and I'll take off my hat and I'll pick out the name.

When he came to me, I took 25 pieces of paper and I wrote Ronnie Cohn's name down. I stuffed him in the hat. And when he picked out the name, this is a true story. Sure enough, the first name that came out was Jesse Hitzer. The jackass did the same thing. He's such an asshole. So I went up there and I pitched Anne Franies Brownies in 30 seconds into my presentation. And by the way, the tuition in American University is $40,000 a year.

That's where I went. So for four years of tuition, $160,000 of my parents' money, this is literally the only thing I remember. The professor stopped me. For $160,000, he stopped me in the middle of my presentation, 30 seconds and and he said, son, I want to know what is your point of differentiation? And I was like, what does that even mean? He said, what makes your brownie different than all the other brownies on the market? And I was like, well, they're moist and delicious.

They could be gluten-free. They're home bait. Blah, blah, blah. And he was like, no, he said, son, there's a thousand brownies that come out every year. And substitute them for marketer, for a restaurateur, for advertising, for lawyer, for whatever you do, there's a thousand of you that come out. And if you want to make it, your brownie, whatever it is, has to be different than all the other brownies. Sit down.

And he made me sit down. And I realized at that moment, like, it was a real powerful moment for me because I asked myself at that moment. And since then, as an entrepreneur, I've always asked myself, like, how am I different? You know, what makes my product stand out? How could I treat my customers differently than everybody else? Zara mentioned it early, but, like, if you rip up the playbook that everybody in the industry is using, And you say, like, well, how would I do it if I never was taught how to do it? That's where innovation comes from.

So I always ask myself in an authentic way, you know, if you're quirky, be quirky. If you're this, be this. But what makes you different? I just remember, not to belabor this point, but I remember when we started Marquis Jet, which was a private jet company that I started with my partner. We had no aviation experience. We had no airplanes. We didn't know a lot of rich people.

And we started this company that, and not a great formula. But we ended up building a company that did $5 billion in sales. And we sold it to Warren Buffett's Netsets. And I remember sitting with our sales team, and I would go in and I would listen to pitches. And they would pitch the way Kenny and I, my partner and I were pitching. And I'd be like, what are you doing? Like you're a single mom. Be who you are.

And be unique for you and be different for what you are. You can't, you're not the co-found. So it's always been a mantra of mine to just kind of like what makes you uniquely different. And I know it's a question Sarah asks all the time to her team and to her employees, you know. She always asked her employees, if no one taught you how to do your job, how would you do it? Yeah, because we're on autopilot as human beings. I mean, think about it, almost every single thing that we do, someone taught us how to do it or we observed how it was done. And so I like the space of closing your eyes and saying, if no one showed you how to do this, how would you

do it? Like, would you be doing it differently? And oftentimes you will, and the answer or the vision comes to you, and then that's a real nugget for yourself. Yeah. I would just put an asterisk next to that because, you know, I just ran this race, and I'm a big believer in becoming the expert in the space you're going into. So before I approached this race, I called everyone that I could find, anyone I could find that did this race and asked them a lot of questions. How many calories do you have to take? How many ounces of fluids you have to take every hour? How much sodium do you need every hour?

And in a very, very short amount of time, I became what I believe in my own head was an expert. And I would come in every station and say to my pit crew, I'd be like I had one goo, half a bottle of ractane, which was this drink that I was drinking. I had 200 calories, 70. I need 350 milligrams of soda. I was very aware of it. So in certain circumstances, you want to be. the expert and follow the advice, but in others, you want to stand out for what, you know,

what you want. Please do not get mad at me, but unfortunately we have to move to the lightning round of questions and we're about ready to wrap up and even though no one wants these two to leave. Okay. What's happening in your life right now? I'm going to Switzerland on Friday. Which sounds very fabulous. That sounds very exciting.

Okay. How do you feel when you're in a room with Richard Branson, Microsoft Giving Pledge? How do I feel when I'm in the Giving Pledge room? super humbled and you know like kind of like how did I get in this room pinch me kind of feeling Sarah's agreed to give away half of her wealth to charity amazing what would your career be if you didn't start stinks I mean I'm a frustrated beautician I might have my own salon or I was someone who did everyone's hair for prom and I always like doing makeovers and things like that. Oh, that sounds fun. Theme song for your life. Your speed round, sweetie. Oh, gosh. Theme song for my life.

Either one are you going to say. Maybe he got back. Yes. Excellent marketing. Excellent marketing. I'm in the but business, okay? Wow. That's good. That's good. Oh, there's a song called Here I Come. It's a reggae song. That's one of my mantra is like, here I come. So it's just my own personal thing. Okay. Favorite party trick. Um, I can make people say no. I have this crazy thing. I could do with you after Heather. Have you ever heard it before? No. All right, that was good. Weird trait about you. A weird trait about either one of you.

I mean, this is so weird, but I can vibrate my eyes. What? Does that even mean? What do you say? I can vibrate my eyes. You learn something new. all the time. Remember for 10 years. I've never seen you vibrate your eyes. I can vibrate my eyes. And the weird thing is, is Charlie just looked up at me and vibrated his eyes the other day, our little boys. So apparently it's genetic. I've only had fruit until 12 o'clock noon for 29 years now, unwaveringly. Fruit till noon, brother. And I didn't like that smoothie that

you gave me. It's pretty nasty. Listen. Okay. What's your biggest pet peeve? Pet peeve? Oh. I know what yours is. Oh, this is like the newlyway game. What do you think mine is? Well, I mean, you're probably about to answer something different, but running water. Absolutely. Absolutely. Don't get me started on running water.

Yeah. Do anyone notice the clock is now going the opposite direction? What? A little confused. Okay. My pet peeve is when the windshield wipers are going more than they need to. That's a fair one. Believe me, I get the, I mean, so we'll be driving. And sadly, they're like, shut the window, the wipers off.

Lower the wipers. I'm like... It keeps upsetting me. Based on the wind. Raise the wipers. Lower the wipers. Okay, here's a good one, Sarah. Shut the wipers off.

Get rid of the wipers. Who is your celebrity crush? Well, growing up, my celebrity crush was Gene Wilder. Unexpected. And look who I married. I found my real life gene. I'm not kidding. Well, guess what?

My celebrity crush was Wonder Woman. Guess who I married? Oh, thank you, great. All right, well, we're going to wrap up, even though we don't want to lose these two right now. But if you thought this day couldn't get any better, Sarah has something that she wants to share with everyone. Yeah.

I'm sorry. What was it? Okay, okay. Yes, so, listen, all you have to do, I'm going to give away some awesome Spanx products, okay? Yes, yes. And for the guys out there that are like, look, you've got a wife, a daughter, a sister, a mother.

They're going to love you for this. And I also happen to make Man Spanx. So you can buy yourself something too, okay? Jesse, my underwear, well, not my underwear, but the underwear that I make for Span's his favorite underwear. He loves the Man Spanx underwear, but anyway, I digress. So all you have to do is get out your phones and go to Instagram and follow at Sarah Blakely, and that's S-A-R-A without an age, at Sarah Blakely.

And then in the last post, which actually was his last man standing post, just put hashtag hypergrowth. And I'm going to pick 20 of you at random and I'm going to send you some awesome Spanx leggings. And if you're a guy, you don't want leggings, you want something else. happy to send that to you. But these, we have a cult following for our faux leather leggings. People love them. You'll love them. Hold on. Can I do a promotion? Yes. If you guys. You're going to out promote me. I don't know you're doing a promotion. We just found out. All right. Go to my Instagram at Jesse at Slough. Use the same hashtag.

Come to a hawks game with me, court side. I'll take three people. You can wear your stanks. And I'll pick three people. You'll come to a game. We'll go early. We'll go to shoot around. And if we win, you get invited back. That's awesome.

All right, guys, please join me in thanking these two amazing human beings. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. That was awesome. Thank you so much. That was awesome.

Thanks, everybody. You loved meeting Sarah and Jesse as much as I did. They are hysterical. They are the real deal. And they are major relationship goals. I'll tell you, backstage, just the way that they are with one another is so beautiful. It's just unreal. So it's definitely real, though.

I guess that's the most important thing I want people to know. Having had a chance to, you know, see them together, it's so important the person that you pick as a spouse and those two nailed it. They're just so great together and they really uplift everyone around them and they're a lot of fun and very, very funny, as you saw. So I hope you love meeting them. I wanted to share Pluto TV is the leading free streaming television service. You can watch over 100 TV channels and thousands of movies on demand completely for free. Pluto TV doesn't even ask for a credit card. You don't even need to sign up to watch for free. Pluto TV is the easy and completely legal way to watch your.

favorite TV shows and hit movies for free. What are you waiting for? Never pay for TV again by downloading Pluto TV. You can download Pluto TV for free on all of your favorite devices today, including your phone, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Smart TV, PlayStation, and anywhere else you stream. That's a lot of TV. So I'm actually trying to get, I'm not trying, I'm going to get Sarah Blakely back on and just do a solo interview with her. I did a solo interview with Jesse and then the two of them together as you listen to today. So I really wanted to get Sarah alone as well. And I've been back and forth with her team trying to coordinate dates, which is pretty tough.

She's been out of the country a lot since Boston. So it's interesting. One of the challenges I've been running into a lot lately is how to stay on people's radar and not annoy them, right? because Sarah Blakely said, yes, she would do my show individually when I met her in Boston at hypergrowth. But now she gave me the contact info for her team. She's been gone. And you keep on, you know, I send the team a copy of my book. I send nice notes asking how her trip's going.

But one of the things that I've been doing lately is I've been following up on social media. Because when you don't have someone's cell phone number, you can't text them. but social media DMs and comments too are a really great way to stay on people's radar because I just liken it to myself. I forget all the time that so-and-so had asked me to do this podcast or asked me to be here or there. I get busy and I just, I forget or I lose track of, you know, a follow-up piece. So it's important that we just keep showing up and I think of it this way.

I'm not annoying someone. I'm helping to remind them. They might have gotten busy and forgotten. And, you know, I just try to put myself. in those same shoes. So it's a constant challenge. However, it's one that there are some strong wins that you're going to see in the next, actually in the next two weeks, I'm super excited that I've been staying on top of, on top of a couple different people. And they came to fruition and we've put dates together and the next couple weeks are going to be really, really big. So I'm

super, super excited for that. And I hope you're going to be excited about it when you see it too. and I will stay on Sarah Blakely's team and get her next date booked. But for today, I've got to get back to working by TED Talk because Saturday is going to be here before you know it. And one of the most important things in a TED Talk, I just read this, you can either own the TED Talk or the TED Talk can own you. And the biggest differentiator is practice. Oh, my gosh, it's so tedious, but it's so true. It doesn't matter how many times you've spoken. if you aren't hitting the time marks and punching up the big quotes that you want people to take away.

So actually what I did was I wrote down the top seven quotes that I think that I have in my TED Talk and I put them on the walls around my house. My son thinks I'm completely crazy. However, he knows that this is really important to me. So I just, I'm a visual person. I like looking at the quotes. I like seeing them and it's helping me to remember, oh, these are the moments. I really need to bring to life to the audience.

And I want them burned in my memory so that I really feel them and showcase them when I'm on that stage for my 10 minute run. Oh my gosh. It's so crazy. Okay. So thank you so much for being here with me this week. I hope you loved Sarah and Jessie. Please share this episode because I really think it's so impactful and important for people

to know about great people out there in the world, doing good, helping others, and sharing the keys to their success, as well as making us all laugh, which I always need a good laugh. So when you send me a DM of the screenshot of a rate and review of this podcast, and I will buy you my $299 video course on confidence as a big thank you. You can DM me on LinkedIn, Instagram, wherever you want, or you can go to my website and shoot me an email. So thank you again. And here's to you going big this week and putting it out to the universe. This TED Talk's going to be amazing. Stay tuned till next week. Keep creating your confidence. How to show up with Coca-Cola energy. You're tired and you're thinking of canceling on your

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