Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - #32: Adversity with Charlie Engle

Episode Date: December 10, 2019

Writer, runner, recovering addict and Keynote speaker Charlie Engle joins Heather to share his journey from 6-day drug benders to a light at the end of the tunnel and how running helped him to discover a new path forward. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Thank you for listening to this Podcast One production. Available on Apple Podcasts and Podcasts and Podcasts. How to show up with Coca-Cola Energy. You're tired and you're thinking of canceling on your friends. Don't do it. Every time you cancel on a friend, a unicorn loses its horn and becomes a regular horse. Do you really want that on your conscience? Instead, grab an ice-cold can of Coca-Cola energy with delicious Coke taste and reinvigorating energy.

Keep the unicorns alive. Show up every day with Coca-Cola energy. Energy you want, taste you love. Each week when you join me here, you're going to chase down our goals. We'll overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. This journey with me. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so grateful you're joining me again this week.

So much happening, hoping everyone had a great Thanksgiving and is ready for this extended holiday season. I can tell you that the past week has been intense. As you know, my new TEDx talk is out. And to say it's been stressful, exciting, overwhelming is an understatement for sure. Because it's one of these weird milestones in life that, you know, you always thought you would achieve someday or maybe it's on your bucket list. I don't know. It's just, it's surreal.

However, as you know, my goal is to get 50 million views, go bigger, go home. I didn't put myself out there and take this risk not to touch a lot of people and make sure my idea spread. So so much has happened. Basically, my strategy that people don't see that I want to share with you and it works. It's just a grind and it's not sexy. It's not really very fun. And I've been locked up in my house for over a week now is I've leveraged LinkedIn.

And I tell you this all the time. LinkedIn is amazing, game changing. And let me mention this first. I got on LinkedIn because I want to give you some perspective into sometimes how things take a while and we don't see it in the beginning. I think that I got into LinkedIn probably in 2009. I was a VP of sales of that radio company. I worked for 14 years. And I was posting not every day, no, but definitely weekly.

You know, I had my resume up there. I didn't start off having reviews and recommendations. But, you know, it's been a decade of being on LinkedIn. And I really got aggressive on LinkedIn. I would say probably four or five years ago. I was still at that radio company. I was a chief revenue officer. I started sharing my accomplishments, sharing some tips and strategies, and just real-life things.

You know, so if I walked out of a meeting and something happened and I thought it was odd, I might comment about that on LinkedIn. You know, so again, nothing, some people get slowed down with this idea of, oh, I don't have anything to say or why would anyone listen to me? Well, your perspective is unique to you and you could bring value to others. And last week, Rory Baden talked about this, that sometimes people can only hear a message if it's at a certain frequency. They're not going to hear it from other people. And you might be that one person that could connect with them. So serving others is a great way to look at it and put yourself out there.

And I'm so glad I did. And if you're not on LinkedIn and you're not aggressive on LinkedIn, this is your wake-up call. because get ready for this. As you all know, my TEDx talk started off the worst possible way it could, coming out on a holiday on Thanksgiving, right? Nobody's watching TEDx talks. They say the most important 24 hours of your talk is the day it comes out. Well, epic fail for me, you know, and for all the people that spoke with me,

were all in the same boat. Well, anyhow, so I had to reboot after my child talked me off the ledge and figure a way to implement the strategy come that next Monday morning. And I kind of just shut it down over Thanksgiving and tried to ignore it. I think the video got about 1,100 or 1,200 views just organically on its own, and which is not, you know, near my 50 million goal, as you know. So I was a little discouraged, but Kim Monday morning, I decided there's a recipe for me that works on LinkedIn. And I want to share it with you. And I have shared it with you before. When I utilize multiple, the max number, I believe it's eight, professional images of me speaking and then sharing something

vulnerable in the actual content portion of the post, though using the right hashtags, of course, using a strong headline, you know, these are all important things for LinkedIn and adding value in some unique and different way that, you know, those posts seem to do very well for me. I've had a couple go viral and get millions of views. Well, you don't know which posts they'll be. Sometimes I think, oh my gosh, this is definitely going to go viral and crickets, nothing happens. But I kind of, I've learned now. So you start getting experience, right? I'm on LinkedIn every day.

I'm non-stop posting on LinkedIn. I'm starting to know the platform better and better. And I had a feeling if I used eight of those images of me speaking at my TEDx and shared how vulnerable and scary, you know, the whole situation was for me by taking this risk and talking about something so taboo that no one wants to talk about, women bullying, women in the workplace and how awful it is. However, I get into the things that you can do to empower yourself to overcome those negative people, put an end to the mean girls, and choose you. And I really hope you do. Oh my gosh, I go right back into my TEDx moment. Excuse that for a moment. Okay.

So anyways, so this, this is all happening. I'm creating this post and I put it out there. And I think today we're at almost 800,000 views of that post. Yeah. Hundreds of, I think there's 600 or 700 comments. It's been shared so far this morning, 155 times. I mean, this is epic. So when you talk about getting down and thinking, okay, my TEDx talk came out literally at the worst time of the year, couldn't be any worse, came out on a holiday, and then

figuring out, okay, let's not get too discouraged. let's focus on solutions. Let's pull a lever here, something that could go really well. If it doesn't, we'll just pivot again and go to the next strategy. And this strategy is working really well. The TEDx talk right now on YouTube, I believe it's up to 12,000 views, 300 likes, hundreds of comments that are really positive. So I'm in a lot of shares. So if you could please go to YouTube today, comment, like, and share my TEDx. I would be. so appreciative because this message is something that needs to break out and reach a lot of people. One of the things you'll notice if you go on my LinkedIn page and see the viral post is a lot of

people are talking about how they've been bullied and not just by women, by men, but men versus men. You know, it's just this bullying in the workplace thing is it's got to end. And the only way things like this will end is when we start talking about it, becoming transparent about it and shining a light on it. That's how you make shame and negativity go away. Let's amp up the light on this thing and shut it down forever because no one deserves to dread going to work every day when you need your paycheck. It's just a horrible situation for anyone to be in. I was in it way too long and it literally took a physical and mental toll on me and I don't wish that on anyone.

So I want people to know you are not alone. Yes, there are not nice people out there. However, there are a lot better people in the world and there's more good people than there are bad. So when the good people rise up together to shine a light on the negativity, we can't squash it and put an end to that dark situation. So please, it would mean the world to me if you could go today. It's the Me Too movement misstep or mistake. I'm taking a look at expanding the Me Too movement, not just from men harassing women, but including all bullies, all harassers, specifically the women that attack other women. women. So please check it out for me. And if you could like, comment and share, I promise you this,

it'll touch someone in your circle and it's going to help someone know they are not alone. And for a long time, I thought I was alone. But after seeing this post on LinkedIn, I'm so grateful to know I'm not alone and you're not alone and we're all in this together. So back to LinkedIn. Make sure you're using the right hashtags. And you can go in on your search bar on LinkedIn and type in different hashtags and see how many people follow. I was originally just doing things like motivation, leadership, podcast, etc. TEDx. And then I started seeing sales had five million people following it. So now I'm going to put sales on all of my posts. Right. So just figure out the audience you're trying to reach. What are the topics they would be interested in? And you want to

go ahead and use that hashtag so that you can reach more people. And what ends up happening is you'll get a note from LinkedIn, hey, your post is trending in inspired or your post is trending in this. And that's when you start reaching a new audience and really growing. Another thing that I do that works very well is I put on my post. If you, you know, if you're picking up what I'm putting down, hit the like button below and please comment and share this post so you can reach more people. Ask people for what you want. If you want people to share your posts, then write that. Ask them. Do a video. saying, I'd really appreciate if you'd share this. It would mean the world to me, right? Because why wouldn't you ask for what you want? Instead of getting frustrated that you don't get what you

want, be sure to be bold, raise your hand, ask for help. What's the worst that happens? No one shares it on to the next one. Right? So that was my strategy with the TEDx. Okay, I found out the video launched on a holiday. I cried, rebooted, pick myself back up and tried a different strategy. And I'm constantly trying other strategies on other platforms right now. None of them have taken off the way that LinkedIn has from you. So again, I've been on LinkedIn for a decade. I've been aggressive on it for at least four to five years and I'm beyond consistent on it now. I've got tons of reviews and recommendations. I post things I'm really proud of and I really encourage you to do the same because you can get on LinkedIn today and it's in this growth phase where you can grow within

In one year, you'll be having amazing results. So if you're not having great results right now on LinkedIn, I really encourage you, start getting aggressive, be consistent, make this one of your 2020 resolutions, and watch what happens. Your business will take off and ask for what you want. That's really important. Before we get to my guest, because I'm really excited for you meeting my guest this week, because yet again, it's someone that's amazing. I want to talk to you about Raycon Wireless Earbuds and how much I love mine.

and how often my 12-year-old steals them from me I had to buy another pair. So they're half the price of any other premium wireless earbuds that I've used. And they sound just as amazing. If haven't bought a pair yet, today is your lucky day. Raycon just released their best model yet, the E-25s. And I have them, and they are unbelievable, such a sleek case. Really cool. They have six hours of playtime, seamless Bluetooth pairing, more bass,

and a more compact design that gives you a nice noise isolating fit. They're really so good. Raycon's wireless earbuds are comfortable and they're perfect for on the go listening and taking phone calls. Unlike some of the other wireless options, Raycon earbuds are both stylish and discreet. No dangling wires. Oh, that's so passe.

You've heard me talk about the company. It was co-founded by Ray J. Celebrities like Snoop Dogg, dog. They're obsessed with Raycon, Cardi B. Come on, pick up a pair. See what the hype is all about. So now's the time to get the latest and greatest from Raycon. Get 15% off your order at Buyraycon.com slash confidence.

That's buyraacon.com slash confidence for 15% off Racon, wireless earbuds. Buyraqon.com slash confidence. You've got to check it out now. I promise I've gotten a lot of DMs from you guys telling me how much you love your Raycons now that you got them. My son's loving mine. I love mine. And you will love them too.

And the new ones are really cool. Okay. So I want to introduce you to my guest and give you a little background on him. Again, my good friend Scott McGregor introduced me to this amazing man, Charlie Engel, who I would have never known otherwise. So shout out to good friends out there that help us achieve our goals and expand our network. You're going to be grateful to Scott, too, after you meet Charlie. Charlie's a global ultra-endurance athlete and the founder of the 5.8 global adventure series,

one of the most ambitious expeditions in modern history, trekking from the lowest to the highest points on all seven continents. Are you kidding me? He's also one of the most accomplished ultramarathon runners in the world, having placed in hundreds of races in dozens of countries. His incredible athletic ability was profiled in the film, running the Sahara, narrated by the one and only Matt Damon. The documentary highlighted his historic record-setting journey with two teammates, across the world's largest desert, running more than two marathons a day for 111 consecutive days. That's a total of 4,500 miles. Charlie's transcontinental run through deep sand and politically unstable countries remains one of the premier

accomplishments of the ultra endurance and adventure sport worlds. After crossing the Sahara and seeing the global water crisis firsthand, Charlie raised more than six million for clean water projects in Africa and helped establish an organization called H2O Africa, now known as Water.org, one of the largest water nonprofits in the world. Charlie's memoir, Running Man, became a bestseller shortly after it was published in 2016. And while it's a lot about his inspiring life story, it's more than just running. It's more than accomplishing goals. It's about facing demons, overcoming impossible odds, keeping your sense of humor and discovering

the redemptive power of putting one foot in front of the other, even when you feel like you can't keep going. Charlie is an unbelievable dynamic speaker. He's enthralled audiences all around the world from keynotes for the Boston Marathon, Google to the National Geographic Society, the United Nations and the deck of the nuclear class U.S. Naval aircraft carrier. Are you kidding me? He's been featured in the New York Times, National Geographic Runner's World, All Things Considered, Men's Journey, The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. He lives with his wife in Durham, North Carolina. So this is mind-blowing, and I can't even believe.

I didn't know about Charlie before, so I have a feeling you might not know about him. But to gain some insight into his life, what he has faced, what he's overcome, and now what he's committed to and building to make the world a better place, if this doesn't inspire you, nothing will. Hang tight.

We'll be right back. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so excited. that we've got Charlie joining us today. And as I had mentioned earlier, Charlie is a master in overcoming adversity, pushing limits beyond belief. I mean, Charlie, literally,

your life needs to be a major movie because it's so flipping unbelievable. I appreciate that. I'm also incredibly good at drinking coffee. So I have other skills, too. but I appreciate that very much. It has, let's put it this way, it hasn't been boring so far.

Yeah, I mean, I get that. I definitely am cut from the same cloth, but you are just at such a different level. And I want everyone to know that not only have I researched Charlie a lot, but we actually have a great personal friend and a number of friends in common. And this is real. So I'm so excited, Charlie, to get into your story, because I know for people that don't know you yet or haven't read your book or aren't familiar

with your accomplishments, your setbacks, they're going to be blown away. So I was hoping you could start us giving us your background, where you came from and what some of these crazy adversities are that you've overcome. Yeah, well, thanks for having me, first of all. And I mean, the story is, it's complex, but it's also pretty simple. You know, I grew up in North Carolina. I, divorced parents, 18 years old when I was born, kind of grew up in a very adult world. I stayed with my mom and she was in the theater world. And so I was surrounded by adults in early childhood. And I kind of grew up fast.

And in high school, I actually decided to move in with my dad. And he was the exact opposite of the artsy person. And I became this driven person to try to, please and get the attention of my father. So I was the captain of all the sports teams. I was, you know, top 10 in my class, student body president, dated a couple of cheerleaders. You know, I did everything I could to be that guy. And of course, I didn't do what I wanted it to do. But nevertheless, I ended up going to UNC Chapel Hill for college. And I got there after my, you know, phenomenal high school career thinking that I was going to be just as special there. And I got to

college and realized there were 4,000 other freshmen that had the exact same, you know, credentials as I did. And pretty quickly, I got lost. I realized that I was actually pretty, pretty average. And what I figured out. Wait, I have to interject there. You are not average, but okay, continue. Well, yeah, at the time, though, that's what it felt like, you know, as a 17-year-old, old and I just turned 18 in September of that year and the drinking age in North Carolina was still 18 back then and what I figured out very quickly was that I was an amazing like first team all-American drinker and that I could just simply drink more than anybody else around me and I mean it was a it's not it you know it's funny how when you're young you find ways to sort of separate

yourself from the crowd and you know that became the thing as almost like a trick, you know, hey, look what he can do. And, you know, and that's who I became. And a lot of other things happened, of course, that were positive in college, but, you know, but ultimately there's not a, there's not a great future in drinking. And, you know, cocaine became a big part of my life, too, in college. And, you know, it was the 80s and cocaine was like truly ubiquitous on campus. And, you know, I sort of zip past this part of my story, but in short, because anybody, well, I was going to say anybody that's ever been around addiction, but the fact of the matter is, everyone listening to this has experience with addiction,

everybody. You either are an addict, you have a family member who's an addict, you have, you know, a friend, a loved one, someone that you're connected to that either is in recovery, needs to be in recovery, didn't survive because of their disease. And I mean, so everyone knows what it's like. And so, you know, I was lucky to live through a lot of harrowing things. And I basically spent about 12 years from the time I was 17 until I was 29 years old as a really heavy-duty drug addict and alcoholic. And- But you were holding down, you were holding down a job during that time. I was, and I actually wasn't just holding down a job. You know, my form of, of addiction and obsession actually meant that I was always the top salesperson. I was the over, I continued

to be the overachiever in this part of my life, to a great degree, so that I could justify my behavior on this other side of my life. And, you know, my joke is always that the boss won't fire the top salesperson. And that turned out not to be true, by the way. And, you know, eventually everyone gets tired of your BS, you know, if you're doing that kind of behavior and that kind of life. And so, you know, it was a very long and difficult 12-year stretch where, you know, I kind of tried everything to quit, including, you know, I went to treatment once. I would go to meetings. I would quit for, you know, my job, my boss. I'd quit for my wife.

I'd quit for everyone else, you know, except for me. And then when I was 29 years old, my first son was born. And I thought, finally, you know, for sure I can quit for my son because, I mean, I now have this other human being on the planet that, like, for the first time ever, I feel love, you know, both giving and receiving. And as an addict, I just thought I was, like, not entitled to that. And so I felt like I had hope for the first time. And he was going to save me, basically.

And a couple of months later, there I am in the worst neighborhood in town. And at the end of a six-day drug binge and the police are searching my car. And, you know, in that moment, I realized nobody was coming to save me. You know, I had the clearest thought, you know. Hang on one. I have one question. Because I don't think I can. even wrap my head around this. You for six days did drugs and alcohol didn't go home. You were living

on the street. I smoked crack and drank for six days straight and that wasn't uncommon. And, you know, that binge ended with, you know, three bullet holes in my car and I could no longer pay for the $15 a night dumpy motel I was staying in. And, you know, and there I was sitting on the ground, watching the police search my car. And there's bullet holes in. the car that were put there by somebody trying to shoot me. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like they were shooting at my car. And, you know, and it just, the clearest thought I ever had, you know, came into my head, even after six days with no sleep.

And that was just that nobody's coming to save you, you know. And if I don't take charge of this, if I don't do something about it for myself, then nobody else is going to. And I'm not going to survive. You know, I mean, it was not. it really was like choosing between living and dying, and I chose running. Meaning when you actually got out of there, you made the decision to change for you, and you just leaned into running.

Well, I went to a meeting. I went to an A meeting that night, that very night, and I got up the next morning, and I put on my running shoes. And look, I had used running in the past. I was a binger. You know, I would go on these months or two. month-long binges of drinking and drugging and then I would like say that's enough. I'm done and I would quit and every addict knows this behavior and I would run and I would exercise and I would go

run a marathon or I would go do something athletic because in my mind again clearly drug addicts don't run marathons and so and that's also not true and you know and the fact is for the first time I decided that I was going to use running as a positive thing. And I, you know what? I went to an A meeting and I ran every single day for three straight years without missing a day. Not one day that I miss. And for me, in that way, that's what it took for me to start building an actual life based on some foundation, you know, that wasn't tied into what I was doing. It was tied into who I am.

Because I think a lot of people struggle with us. You know, we tie our self-esteem into what we've accomplished into what we're doing far more than how we actually feel about ourselves. And that's what I was doing. And so I began the journey, it's now 27 years ago, I began the journey of learning more about myself and figuring out this path I was on. And running was a big part of that. Still is.

How about how does forgiveness play into this? because when I'm hearing you tell this story, of course I'm thinking about your wife and your children. Well, I mean, yeah, it's a good question. My, first of all, to take a tiny step back, you know, I'm a fourth generation addict. So I become, I come by my addiction, you know, very honestly from a genetic standpoint. You know, environmentally, I grew up around it. My wife, my first wife, also grew up with an alcoholic. father. So it's not surprising that we met and married because she was comfortable with my kind of

craziness. She didn't like it. She didn't support it, but she had grown up in that kind of atmosphere. So she was able to deal with it. Well, you know, by the time I finally got sober, we had one child and then we had another one that came soon. We stayed together another six or seven years. But the fact of the matter was, the sober version of me no longer needed a caretaker, no longer needed somebody to call in to work for me or take care of me or do everything that I wasn't capable of doing. And, you know, when I got married, when we got married, you know, I needed all those things because I was pretty much incapable of taking care of myself. Like I could do the work and I could do those things, but all the other details of life I needed that person. And we worked together as a team. And, you know,

We had these kids and we had what I like the term as probably the most amicable divorce ever. But I recognized that, you know, I didn't, I wasn't in love and I wasn't going to stay in a relationship forever that just because I felt guilty that she stuck with me through the hard times. And she was smart enough to understand that and be understanding about it. And, you know, we've both moved on. That was a long time ago now. And I'm married again and married, you know, for all the right reasons. And my boys are both in their 20s now and, you know, doing amazingly well. You know, one of them has struggled with addiction but is clean and sober.

And the other is, you know, trying to save the world, heading to the Peace Corps in a couple of months. And, you know, and doing adventurous, positive things out there in the world. And so as a father, especially one that came from where I came from, I feel incredibly proud of the fact that they've, you know, they survived having me as a father, first of all. If your anxiety, depression, or ADHD are more than a rough patch, you don't need just another meditation app. Takayatry makes it easy to see a psychiatrist online using your insurance in days. Takayatry is 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations. diagnoses and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, OCD, PTSD, insomnia, and more. Unlike therapy only apps, psychiatry is

psychiatry. That means you're seeing a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate. All their 600 plus clinicians are in network with major insurers so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out of network fees. You'll meet with an experience licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's going on, builds a personalized treatment plan, and can prescribe medication when it's right for you. Your care stays consistent and evidence-based. Head to tachiatry.com slash confidence and complete the short assessment to get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's tachydri.com slash confidence to get matched in

minutes. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh, Quince has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing, and building a wardrobe that lasts. Their versatile styles make it easy to reach for them day after day. Quince has all the staples covered, from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear. Their wardrobe is something. essentials are crafted to last season after season. Their Italian wool coats are real standouts. They're beautifully tailored, soft to the touch, and built to carry you through years of wear,

not just one season. The quality shows in every detail, the stitching, the fit, the fabrics. Every piece is thoughtfully designed to be your new wardrobe essential. And like everything from quince, each piece is made from premium materials in ethical trusted factories that are priced far below what other luxury brands charge. I can't tell you how much I am loving my new cashmere sweater. It's a staple for sure, and I can't wait to give one to my best friend for her birthday this year. It is timeless, gorgeous, and the softest thing I've ever touched. Which quince pieces are you interested in? I mean, from the bags to the denim, to the sweaters, to the jackets, they're all incredible luxury high-end products without the high-end price. Refresh your

wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com slash confidence for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash confidence to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash confidence. Do you, what that part really interest me, because as you mentioned, you know, addiction is genetic and hereditary. So, What do you attribute that to the success that they're having as people, is that luck? Was there a strategy? Well, and it's a question I get a lot from parents who are struggling with their own children and addiction.

And I'll be honest, there's no easy answer. My own, you know, my son, my first son, even though he, despite the fact he grew up in a very sober household, I mean, his mom had, you know, a glass of wine here and there. but I was, you know, sober completely. And he knew from a very early age the risks, because I told him. I'm like, you know, look, I know kids are going to do things, but if you choose to go down this path, you know, it may not work out well. And, you know, sure enough, I mean, at 14 or 15, he started, you know, that's when he started.

And he was also a high achiever in school. But, you know, he's now 27 and got almost three years clean and sober. But I guess the point of that is, as a parent, I actually reached a point where I had to let him go. I couldn't save him, just like he couldn't save me all those years back. I couldn't save him. I mean, I did literally save him a couple of times, but ultimately, you know, he had to get to a place where he had to decide whether he wanted to live or die, you know, because he

was doing, unfortunately, what we've seen in recent years with young people is they're getting into heroin and fentanyl and a lot of really, really deadly drugs almost from the start. Whereas my age group, I don't know about yours, but most people started by drinking some and smoking some weed. And like there was this slow ramp up of things that you tried. 16, 15 year olds now, you know, don't think anything about, you know, putting a needle in their arms. And it's really a, you know, it's a crazy thing. And then my older, my younger one, rather, you know, he just never, you know, he drinks a beer here and there. And he's certainly smoked some weed in his life and, you know, whatever.

But he had a pretty typically graduated college with honors and likes going to the Peace Corps. And he's just sort of a, you know, a normal dude. And I'd love to take credit for any of that. But every parent kind of understands that it's a bit of a crap shoot. you, you know, the one thing that they did get and do get today still from me is unconditional love. I mean, we hear it all the time, but, you know, I differentiate between mistakes that they make and that somehow being tied to the love that I'm willing to give them. And I didn't get that same sort of love from my own father.

You know, his, his admiration or love was always tied to baggage and to, baggage and to accomplishments and to, and it was very fleeting. And I vowed that I would never do that with my own kids. Wow, that's amazing. So when I hear you explaining that, one of the things that comes to mind for me is not only around addiction, how you mention people have to want to do something, but also would you agree that that's with any illness, anxiety, depression, you know, those are the things that are popping into my mind. If someone doesn't want to get help or help themselves, you can't make them do that. No, you can try an intervention.

You can, and I'm not saying that those things shouldn't be tried, but the fact of the matter is, you know, embarrassing a person into it or somehow, like, forcing them into it. Occasionally it will work. And look, I will say this because I think it's important. When I went to treatment as a 26-year-old for 30 days, you know, three years before I finally got sober, That treatment did impact me.

I didn't stay sober after that, but I did get an education, and I did begin to understand that, okay, there is an answer to this if I choose to take it. So that step along the process was important, even though I wasn't able to stay sober. So I encourage people that hear this, and if it's your problem, then just keep moving down the path. If it's a loved one's problem and you're trying to help them, don't stop trying to help them, but at some point understand that you can't enable them. My wife, my first wife, enable, and enabling is very simple. You know, she called my work and she covered for me every time I screwed up. And she, like, she took care of things that made sure that I wasn't held accountable for my behavior. And there

comes a point where you can't continue to do that for someone and they have to suffer. If there aren't consequences, I don't care if you're a kid or an adult. If there's not consequences to your behavior, why would you stop? So true. And it sounds so simple listening to you say it. But, you know, I'll tell you, having issues in my family and in my life with so many people with addiction, I've been in Alon myself. you know, there is education out there, as you mentioned.

There is a process to handle and manage these things, which is so important, I think, for people to experience and access that information in these communities for support, which are amazing. But when you're in it, when you're in the throes, it's very hard to get this clarity. And that's why it's so important to speak to someone who's been there before so you can understand what's actually transpiring because there can be, and I've been in this myself, this desperate need to want to fix somebody and to want to fix a situation and to feel like there isn't a clear solution how to make that happen. No, and I understand too that we all want to,

especially if it's someone that whose life is really at risk, we don't want to wake up one day having lost that person and not feel like we've done everything we can to help them or to save them. But in general, and this is a broad generalization, for any addict or someone suffering from depression or PTSD or whatever it might be, the answer is, I love you, I'm here for you. You know, don't wait too long to get a handle on this. I mean, you have to let them know how you feel that the problem is recognized. And you know what? You might risk losing that friendship or that family member, at least for a period of time. You know, it might piss them off and they might say, screw you and whatever.

That happens. It's happened to me. But pretty much in every instance, it comes back around, as long as they survive. And for the people that don't ever get it and who remain a using addict or alcoholic or in their depression or whatever for the rest of their lives, I, you know, I've lost a few of those people as not even as friends. I'm still their friend, but they, misery loves company.

So ultimately they, they reach a point where they don't want to be my friend even because I make them feel guilty about their behavior. I mean, I'm very open about this idea of attraction rather than promotion also. And the simple version of that is just simply how I behave is way more important than what I say. I'm, you know, so if I'm acting in a certain way and I'm living my life in a way visibly, sober, all of these things, people are smart. They watch that if I make myself available, friends around me or even online and on the internet, they see me, they hear me talk about it. If they find something of value in it, then they're hopefully going to be attracted to that and explore the options for themselves. The moment I turn the corner and start saying, here's what you should do, that's when I begin to

change the conversation. And people tend to be repelled by being given orders. Like nobody wants to be told unless they've specifically like there are addicts who are at their very bottom finally who will reach out to me and say, I'm done. What do I do? Then I have very specific answers about going to treatment, about going to meetings, about getting, like, look, I still go to meetings today. After 27 years of being clean and sober, I go to AA meetings, but I don't go because I'm worried about drinking today. I go because I am part of a community. And it's the same with running and with sports and with all of this. Like I love, and I'm a plant-based eater too. So I have these three like amazing and supportive communities. communities that, you know, will, they feed me, you know, literally sometimes and my passions. And I think that the other part about it is trying to get addicts or trying to get people

suffering from depression or PTSD. They really, you cannot do it alone. And the people that do it alone, sure, there's people who every once in a while, they're like, oh, you know, one day I just woke up and I quit drinking after all these years of problems. all the people I've known that have done that, yeah, they may have finally quit drinking, but they still have all the same issues. Like, there's still pretty miserable people because how can you take something that important and not replace it with something else?

Like something has to take the place of all that time and energy. And so it's about community and fellowship, I think. Absolutely. So for you, and I really want to move into this, and I'm glad you brought up the plant base, the marathons, the ultramarathons, and the running community, you transitioned and filled that void in your life with this very healthy, I mean, like the complete antithesis and leaned into, and I am understanding from what you're saying right now,

where you were putting so much energy before into the addiction, alcohol, and drugs, now you were putting that energy into the marathons, the running, that community, and the plant base. And how did that, I mean, I'm sure it didn't happen. in the drop of a hat, but how did it evolve into what it is today with the amazing adventures that you go on? Man, it's a great question. And the underlying thing that I'll say, you almost said it and you could have, you know,

people have said, didn't you just switch addictions? It seems like, you know, I stopped drinking or doing drugs. And then I all of a sudden started running like a maniac, you know? And from the outside, I think people look at that and they're like, man, you know, all you did was just like stop doing drugs and start running and and it took me a few years to understand the difference you know addiction depression PTSD all these things are about hiding they're about being invisible and maybe even having no feelings or if you have a feeling you find a way to like you know tamp it down running or any athletic venture for that matter cycling crossfit well i don't care

what it is, it's, there's no hiding. Like you're, you are all there. Like you have no place to go when you reach that point of like, I can't do anymore, I can't run anymore, I can't whatever. And so it's, it's all about shining a bright spotlight on who I am. It's, and I crave that situation. And, and so now I purposely put myself into difficult situations physically, because I know there's going to be an amazing reward buried in there somewhere. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it's not. But, you know, in those three years, the first three years when I didn't miss a day, I ran more than 30 marathons in those first three years. And people are like, yeah, you really got that whole addiction thing under control. And I, and, you know, and the thing is, though, we all face this.

Misery loves company. I mean, one of the weird things is there was criticism hidden in those comments because some of those people were envious of what I was accomplishing. And the only way people know how to handle that kind of thing is to criticize it. And so it took a while for people, again, I go back to attraction rather than promotion, people had to like see who I was becoming. And for those who knew me as an addict and now knew me, like I was this whole different, energetic, enthusiastic, full-of-life person. Whereas, not that I was a bad person as an addict, but I was certainly an unknown person.

And now here I am just trying to live a life of exploration, of service. You know, I love the saying, too, to keep it, you have to give it away. And that's what you do. And that's what I hopefully do also. You know, you, if you have a passion, a gift, something you're good at, I learned very early on. It's important for me to share that with other people. Not force it on them. There's a difference.

You know, but if someone says to me, hey, I'd really like to be a runner, you know, how do I do it? Or I'd like to try plant-based eating. How do I do it? Or I want to quit drinking. How do I do it? If they actually ask me that question, that gives me permission to then say, I can't necessarily tell you how to do it, but I can tell you how I did it. and maybe you'll find something of value there. So I have to tell you, this is so funny that plant-based concept,

I'm very new to it, for whatever reason, I just never learned about it. I don't know anyone that did it. And my son and I watched this special on Netflix called The Game Changer. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, I've seen it. Oh, yeah. So that completely changed my mind.

My son is 12. We were both freaking out and learning that Arnold Schwarzenegger is on plant-based, all these amazing, humongous athletes. And we didn't understand, you know, how that was possible. And now to know you and to know what you are able to endure through these massive runs and, you know, not sleeping and how your body at your age, you don't get injured, like how I get injured. You know, so I start looking at all these things. And it's very clear to me that plant-based is the way I want to go.

But Charlie, it is hard. I mean, I am really struggling as a mom trying to figure. out. I've tried to make so many different things, and it's not, I'm not a natural cook. So what are some of the directions you give to people who do want to be plant-based and are like me saying, I don't know how to do it? And it's really, it's a struggle. Maybe I should just go back to chicken again. Yeah, it's a great question. I appreciate you asking it, because it's, it, the thing I remind people and, and I mean, you right off the bat is it's progress, not perfection. So it doesn't mean you You know, and I think that's the overwhelming part for some people is they feel like,

oh my God, I want to make this change, but like it's such a change to do all at one time and like to say, like, I'm never going to eat meat again. You know, and I tell people regularly, look, if you normally eat meat seven days a week, cut it back to three. I mean, it'd be great if you cut it back to none, but, you know, be, allow this transition time. Or, frankly, 20 years ago, what I did was say, you know, I'm going to go 30 days without eating meat. And after that 30 days, I felt great and I just never went back again. Like it was just, it was this interesting transformation. The suggestions I have are, you know, first of all, there's some really well-known people out there who have done, you know, things like cookbooks. Rich Roll is a friend of mine and, and, you know, a well-known podcaster who has, do you know rich or do you know who I'm talking about? I know who he is. I don't know. Yeah. So, Rich Roll.

and he and his wife have a couple of amazing, like, plant-based cookbooks. So finding actual things that you feel like. And what you'll find in those cookbooks, though, are recipes that look very familiar. Frankly, I'm not really a recipe guy personally, but, like, I buy, my wife and I buy and use a lot of, you know, I just simply call them fake meats because it's the easiest thing to say. Like so beyond meat in full disclosure has been a,

you know, a supporter of mine, you know, through the years and me, a supporter of them. And so I still make the same dishes. I'll make, you know, tonight. I've got, you know, gluten-free pasta, which a lot of my diet is also, our diet is almost completely gluten-free. And not because we have gluten allergies, but I've learned, especially the older I get, gluten causes inflammation. It's not complicated. Every, I mean, not just science, every, you know, this isn't a debate. And so if you're a runner or an athlete, if you eat too much gluten,

you're going to have inflamed joints and you're going to be achier. So you'll note most people who eat a lot of gluten will notice a big difference if they switch. And life has changed a lot in the last few years. There's amazing gluten-free everything now. 10 years ago, everything was gluten-free basically meant taste-free. It just was like crap.

I mean, at least in my world. And now, you know, you've got great gluten-free breads, pastas, all of these things. So we eat like, you know, brown rice pasta with a marinera sauce, and I'll take spicy Italian sausage from beyond meat and chop that up and put it in the pasta. And if I served it to you or anybody else, you would not know the difference. So you still have all this amazing, you're getting more protein. Like I get way more protein from. nuts and beans than the average meat eater by far.

And it's been proven over and over again that plant proteins are far more efficient. And you can really count on the protein in plant proteins and in nuts and beans much more than you can, animal proteins, because every, an animal is like a, it's a thing. So you are basically getting everything that that animal ever ingested as part of the package, right? And so whether you care about the environmental part or not, that's another topic. I do, but I understand not everyone, that's not a big issue. But from a health perspective, it's way easier to eat a super healthy diet that doesn't include meat. I mean, and it's, it really is simple. My day starts every day with, you know, cereal or oatmeal. I cut out

dairy many, many years ago also. And so we have everything in our fridge from oat milk to almond milk to cashew milk to, you know, you name it. We've got it. And we make recipes. I mean, at, there's a guy, Dr. Gundry, I don't know if you ever heard of him, Dr. Gundry is a, he makes a line of supplements and cookbooks and stuff. Anyway, so we, we like, for Thanksgiving this year, we made, my wife always makes

vegan macaroni and cheese. And for years, she made it for the whole family and no one knew. And finally, kind of the secret came out. And everybody was like, and this is a traditional southern family. Like, this is not, you know, this is a, you know, a meat and dairy. Actually, her parents were dairy farmers when they were kids and whatever. So, I mean, we come from a very traditional, she does, a family in that way. And once, once there, you know, it's not that everybody's made the transition.

You know, most of them still eat meat in the family, but they're very open to the possibility of, you know, of not having it. And we eat, I mean, literally every day is green vegetables and pastas and beans. And again, we, you know, you get hamburger patties, chicken patties. They're all, you know, they're all pea protein or whatever it might be. But try them. They taste good. And they're, you know. And you get a, you know, like for Morning Star Farm, you get chicken patties and they're like

four and a half dollars for four patties. I mean, that's just, you know, price wise, it's as good as or better than, you know, actual meat. All right. I'm sold on this. I really am. Okay. What else give me, what, are you into the cryo phase? I mean, are there other things that you recommend for people because of what you're able to endure physically? What other, do you have other tools? in your toolkit for us? I keep it simple. Sleep and hydration are the two absolute 100% most important things in my life from a physical standpoint, like in how I take care of myself.

And I think that that is, and I love always highlighting those because there are things that anyone can do. You know, you can make sure that you're hydrated. You can make sure that you're hydrated. get I mean, I get eight hours of sleep every day, no matter what my, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen once in a while that I don't, but in general, I get my sleep. And I do, I learned to meditate a long time ago. And so it's kind of funny. It sort of drives my wife nuts sometimes because I am, I have a very busy mind. Most of us do. But my, you know, so I look back years ago when I'd be

that guy, I would put my head on the pillow and it's like, you know, like, I'm thinking, 20 different things and I can't go to sleep and I'm anxious and I learn to meditate. And I mean, I can be asleep. I can leave the camera on and fall asleep right here in five minutes if I set my sights on it. So I think that sleep, hydration, I do take a lot of supplements, but all the supplements that I take are geared towards anti-inflammation, right? So they're things like turmeric, Boswellia, Quercetin, ginger, like these are all things,

cinnamon, these are all things that are proven anti-inflammatories. So that's where most of that's good. I do use hemp oil, hemp's of all the raids these days, right? CBD, obviously not with THC in it. You know, there's plenty of CBD products out there that don't have any, you know, don't have any weed buy products in them, so to speak. And, you know, and I do believe in that. This company called hemp locks that I, you know, frankly, they do give me product in full

disclosure. And, but I think that they, any of those companies out there would actually give me product, but I chose the one that I think is the highest quality. And, and it, it helps with anxiety because I am, you know, I am a, I'm not an overly anxious person because I run. Running takes that anxiety away for me. But, you know, it does help me sleep a little. It just allows me to be calmer.

I only take a little bit at night, you know, under my tongue, and there's no, there's no narcotic effect. I didn't have to change my sobriety date. I think also that, you know, exercise when it gets cold, when it starts getting dark at four o'clock in the in a friggin afternoon and all that kind of stuff. I mean, even for you in South Florida, it changes the way we approach things. And so the most important thing that I can say to people is, I actually'll use a quote that somebody asked me recently.

I was given a big talk, a thousand people. I took some questions afterward. And as you know, one of the things that I did was I became the first person to run all the way across the Sahara Desert. And I ran two marathons every day for 111 consecutive days. So for 111 days in a row, I ran basically two marathons a day across the world's biggest desert. And so this guy asked me, he's like,

how is that even physically possible? Like, how is it possible? And it was interesting. I had never thought about this answer exactly. But what came out, I think, is right. I said it's not physically possible. It's only mentally possible. You know, and I'm not trying to even be profound.

I mean, I meant that like wholeheartedly. It was only possible because that's what I was there to do. And there was never any doubt in my mind that I would keep going every single day. And some of it comes from my addiction history. And I remind myself all the time that the things that I faced for that 12-year period of time in Addicton, are so much worse than anything I've faced, you know, as a sober person in running or in obstacle course racing or in adventure racing. Those are hard physical challenges, but they're ones that I chose for myself. The far more difficult challenges that we all face on a daily basis

are disease, relationship issues, job problems, like these are the things that while we have a hand in making them happen very often, they seem to come out of the blue. So I categorize things as like, things we, you know, suffering that we choose for ourselves and suffering that comes out of the blue. So self-inflicted is the part that I love. Because anyone I ever ask, like, what is the most formative thing that's ever happened to you in your life, you know, that has created this person that you are? Like, whatever it was, you probably just thought of it for yourself.

It's almost, I mean, I've never met anyone yet that it wasn't, if not trauma, it was a challenge. It was a hard situation that formed really the best parts of who we all are. So why wouldn't I take that knowledge and go challenge myself with really hard physical things? Because when I run a hundred miler, which I've run a lot of them, it's not even. easy and I know that at some point I'm going to want to quit like at 63 miles I'm just like anybody else and I'm like why did I think this was a good idea but if I can find a way to push past that and and as I like to always say and it gets back to even addiction you know never make a big decision at a low moment most of us make the worst decisions in our lives when we're at a

particularly low moment because you know whether it's to quit your job quit your relationship, make some drastic decision, or just to drop out of a race. Because in a hundred-mileer, I know that when I feel like quitting, it's not, it's my body telling me that it needs to be fed. So I need to like eat a bunch of calories. I need to drink. I need to walk and just keep, it's a good metaphor for life, just keep moving forward and let those things that I'm now feeding myself with absorb into my body and I will feel better. And every single time, it doesn't mean I feel good. I mean, 100 mile is hard.

But I do feel better when I do the things that I know how to do. And I think that's the biggest thing. We so often, all of us, ignore the things that we've already learned. The same lessons we've learned before, we know how to help ourselves, whether it's going, to a recovery meeting for, you know, trauma, whatever your trauma might be, or whether it's just to go out for a run or go hit the gym or call a friend and say, my life sucks right now. Because just saying out loud, what's going on is therapy. And it almost always takes that pressure off. When you want more, start your business with Northwest Registered Agent and get access to thousands of free guides,

tools in legal forms to help you launch and protect your business. All in one place. Build your complete business identity with Northwest Northwest Registered Agents has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They are the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S. with over 1,500 corporate guides, real people who know your local laws and can help you in your business every step of the way. Build your business identity fast with Northwest registered agent and get access to thousands of free resources, forms, and step-by-step guides without even creating an account. Sign up for a free account to begin managing your business hub with lawyer drafted operating agreements, bylaws, resolutions, membership,

certificates, bills of sale, and more, all at no cost. Northwest is your one-stop business resource. Learn how to build a professional website, what annual filings your business needs to stay in good standing and simple explanations of complicated business laws. With Northwest privacy is automatic. They never sell your data and all services are handled in-house because privacy by default is their pledge to all customers. Don't wait, protect your privacy, build your brand and get your complete business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes.

Visit Northwestregisteredagent.com slash confidence-free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at www. northwestregisteredagent.com slash confidence-free. That's so good. Thank you for sharing that. Wow, that was such a long run-on sentence. Sorry about that. No, I felt like I was at one of your speeches for a minute.

I feel so fired up. So no one gets off this show, Charlie, without sharing what the toughest moment in your life was when you struggled with your confidence, What is that time in your life when you look back? Well, it's, it's for me, it's complicated, but I will say, you know, and you know my story, and I will, I'll preface it with this. What happens to us in life isn't nearly as important as what we do about it, right? I mean, that's cliche in a way, but it's like, it's how we respond.

I hate the saying things to happen for a reason because nothing happens for a reason. reason until you figure out what the reason is and it isn't going to come knocking on your door. You've got to figure out like why did this thing happen and what am I going to do about it. For me, I was 19 years clean and sober. This is nine years ago. And life was good. I was giving talks all over the world. I was sponsored and all of that.

and I ended up getting arrested and ended up doing 21 months in federal prison as someone who was 19 years clean and sober. And it was, I mean, look, it was all over the New York Times. It's in my book. It's on my website, whatever. The details aren't really all that important. But, you know, it was the biggest trial, literally, of my life because all of a sudden, and especially in this world that we live in, you know, one day I was a hero,

and the next day it's like every website, every running, everything, like whatever it was. I was like overnight, I was no longer a person to be admired. And it, of course, made me question, you know, who I am, who I really am. You know, am I really the person that people are saying that I am? we live in a society that is all about the headlines, you know, and nobody reads past the second paragraph.

And all they, you know, they're going to make that judgment based on that if they don't have personal history with you. And so for me, you know, how I responded was the most important thing. And I used it. What I learned is that if I can face both good and bad things that happened to me in life with, you know, an open mind and a curious heart. If I can approach everything with that attitude, it'll work out. So I literally approached federal prison with this open-minded attitude, you know?

And I get there and for perspective, the first guy I met was African-American and, you know, he got 25 years for a tiny little amount of drugs, you know, that me as a, clean-cut white guy had in my hands a hundred times. And the point is, there's always inequities in our society and in life and things aren't fair. So once you get past the fact that this isn't fair, whatever this is, then you have to figure out who you are. And I don't know, life, you don't really find out who you are until everything falls apart. And I used to always tell other people that. And then it happened to me. And I got a chance to put, you know, my philosophy, you know, to the test. And as you know, I wrote a book and I'm, I'm, look, I'm very

open about the struggles and I still struggle today with things. I don't have all the answers. Certainly not for everybody else. I struggle with my own answers. But I do know that as long as I continue to move forward, you know, and I don't make big decisions, you know, when I'm, when I'm at a low point, when things are difficult, then I know it'll all work out. I love that. Charlie, thank you so much for being so transparent. It is so incredibly refreshing. How does everyone find you? Talk to me about the book and where people can find it. The number one simplest way is this my website, and it's just charlie ingle.com. And I'll send you a couple of things that you're welcome to share with your folks as you put this out.

And all the social media handles are on my website. I write a blog. I am launching an app later this month that will actually be for my latest set of adventures, the 5.8 global adventure series where I'm going from the lowest elevation to the highest on all seven continents over the next couple of years. So, you know, final message is just, man, first of all, I'm 57. and I don't, it's actually baffling to me that I talk about that as if that matters even because it just doesn't, you know, I take good care of myself and I see only opportunities and not obstacles and you just got to keep moving, man, and just got to keep moving. So I hope I get a

chance to come talk to you again. Oh, absolutely. Charlie, thank you so, so much. I really appreciate everything that you shared today. You inspired me and I know you're inspiring everyone. So thank you much for being here. My pleasure. Thanks, Heather. All right. We'll be right back. Okay, this is about to get real. I'm telling you about my favorite new bra. It is designed for your perfect fit. Third Love uses the measurements of millions of women to design bras with all-day comfort and support. It's a perfect fit promise 60 days to wash it and wear it. If you don't love it, return it. It's free. What? Bras in over 80 sizes, including half cup sizes. I mean signature memory foam.

No slip straps, smooth band, scratch free band with a printed label. So no itching. You can find your perfect fit in 60 seconds. Over 15 million women have taken the fit finder online quiz, including me to find your perfect fit. You answer a few simple questions and boom, you are done. Every customer has 60 days to wear it, wash it, and put it to the test. If you don't love it, return it. And Third Love will wash it and donate it to a woman in need.

That is unbelievable. It's hands down the most comfortable bra that you are going to own. I love it. It's lightweight, super thin memory foam cups, and it molds to your shape. Third Love donates all of their gently used return bras to women in need, supporting charities in their San Francisco Bay Area and across the U.S. So far, Third Love has donated $15 million plus in bras to charity. Unbelievable.

Why would you do business with anyone else? Thirdlove knows there's a perfect fit bra for everyone. So right now they're offering my listeners, you 15% off your first order. Go to third love.com slash confidence now to find your perfect fit bra and get 15% off your first purchase. That's third love.com slash confidence for 15% off today. I hope you loved meeting Charlie as much as I love spending time with him. it was such a different conversation and topics that I don't usually dig into or even, I don't think a lot of people get into those topics. So I'm so appreciative that he's willing to open up and have a meaningful conversation around addiction, depression, anxiety, and food choices.

I swear I'm so committed to this plant-based thing and I know that it sounds crazy. And frankly, my son thinks I'm crazy and I haven't found it to be easy. so I'm going to go easy on myself that it's going to be an evolution. But my goal is really to get myself there and to find a way to become better at cooking plant base, which currently I'm somewhat clueless on. So we all start as a beginner initially, and I definitely am one today. So before I get to answering your questions, I want to remind you about Pluto TV. It's the leading free streaming television service. You can watch over 100 TV channels and thousands of movies on demand all completely for free. Pluto TV doesn't even ask you for a credit card. That's kind of shocking, isn't it?

What are you waiting for? Never pay for TV again by downloading Pluto TV. You can download Pluto TV for free on all of your favorite devices today, including your phone, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Smart TV, PlayStation, and anywhere else you stream. Oh my gosh, there's a lot of options for us to stream these days. It's so, it's so crazy. Okay, so I want to get to some of your questions. I'm gotten a lot of questions. And I've received a note last night from someone on LinkedIn saying, hey, Heather, I heard about this new opportunity. This person's looking for a new job and said, I was told to pay some person, we'll leave that name out, $600. And for that fee, they would rewrite my resume and they would pair me with the correct jobs. Do you think I should spend this money

on this service? And so here's what I responded back and I wanted to share with you because I think it's interesting and it's a bigger picture question than just to this one incident. Number one, here's what I want to know. I want to see the reviews and recommendations. And here's why, because the platform LinkedIn is a social platform, meeting there's a crowdsourcing element. You can't go and post fake reviews because someone's going to call you out, right? There's visibility. You can't post a fake job that you never had and tagged the company because someone will say, take it down. You know, that's not real. So that's one of the reasons. I really love LinkedIn is people leave reviews and recommendations on your wall. You can click back to

that person and see where they've worked and you can, you know, connect those dots. So the first thing is someone's coming to me at a left field asking me to pay for something is, I want to know what the ROI is. What is the return on this investment? And the easiest way, the most credible way, if I don't know you and don't have prior business experience with you, is I want to look at who are the people that have benefited from your services and can I speak to them directly and or read their testimonials. What does that ROI look like? And can you share some different examples with me? Do you have case studies that you've built up? You know, when you start asking questions like that, real quick, you're going to get to what this person has been able to materialize, create for others,

and they'll be happy to share those success stories or they will go dark. And I had another experience this week with someone that was looking to come on and intern with me. And I asked her, I said, have you ever interned with somebody else? And she said, well, actually, I hired a coach this past year, and this person has a massive following, and I was so excited to work with this person. However, it turns out, this person really doesn't know much about what they're saying. They do know. And I thought, how does that happen? And it's so wrong, and this is not the first time I've heard it, but a lot of people in social media that have large followings, specifically on Instagram, have leveraged those large followings to get people to pay them, you know,

know, for coaching. And then in the end, there isn't any real meat that they're getting from this relationship. They're spending a lot of money, but they're not necessarily benefiting or growing from it. So it's so important to get in writing what the expectations are up front. But it's on you to dig in, do your due diligence and find out just because someone has a million Instagram followers and claims to have millions in revenue doesn't mean that they can teach you how to do that. It doesn't mean that that is even true necessarily, right? Because we know you can buy followers. And it's just, it's very misleading. But I would tend to steer away from websites where they create in post-testimonials because anyone can write what they want on their own website

and lean in more to a business platform like LinkedIn because that's going to help you flesh out who is accurate in their experiences skills and who really has those reviews and recommendations and who just might be creating a marketing piece for social media. I don't want, you know, anyone to have a bad experience, hiring any type of consultant and then be deterred from that moving forward. So put the onus on you. Do your due diligence. Take the rose-colored glasses off just because someone has a million followers doesn't

mean that they're going to make you a million dollars, right? So let's do our homework and dive into things a little bit more. Okay, next question. Hey, Heather, I watched you on Gary Vee. I love that. I love Gary V. Okay, I know you're probably super busy. I am, but I always have time for you. My peeps, always some of your questions. I'm finishing up my own personal development book and I am on the fence

about how to publish. I know traditional publishing takes a long time. It does. But I think I want that credibility. I really just want to get the book out into the world. Did you self-publish and was it negative or did it positively impact you with speaking gigs, being on other people's podcasts, etc. Okay, so here's a thing. You need to get clear on what's your goal. If speed to market is your goal, which it was for me, remember I got fired at August 1st, 2017. I sat down and wrote my book. My book was done before January 1st, 2018. Now I decided if I'm going to go traditional, I could be a year and a half out of getting this book to light. No, I needed a product to sell, a product to market, and really the epicenter of my brand to be materialized. It was crystal clear to me,

speed to market was the answer. I just said, I can move faster than any traditional publishing house. I'm going all in. And I hired Scribe, which I've had J.T. McCormick on my show before. If you haven't listened to that episode and you want to know more about writing a book, publishing a book, please listen to that episode with JT. It's really good and we dive into everything about self-publishing. But I'm so glad I did because I can move fast. As far as speaking engagements and going on podcast, that's all on me. Now, if you say, well, I don't know how to do that, Heather. I don't know how to connect with people in that space.

You might want to hire a PR company. You might want to hire someone, you know, as a consultant to help advance you into that space. Or, you know, it depends. Are you a speaker? Do you know how to speak, right? You have to look at all these different things. I had experience for 20 years speaking in business. So that was an easy, natural evolution for me.

If it isn't for you, you might want to work with someone to begin your speaking. Start small. start speaking for free at schools and charities, you know, really take a look at you, your attributes, what your strengths are, and then put those to work for you in your own unique way, whatever that may look like. But I definitely think if speed to market is important to you, which I think it should be important to everybody, you want to at least consider self-publishing, go listen to my episode with J.T. McCormick. I think that you'll really like it. I will say this, though. I've written my second book, and I've been meeting with agents, and I'm just a

definitely looking and considering the traditional route this year because I'm not in that rush that I was in. I have products available now. I have my book. I have my course. I have things that I can sell. I have my speaking engagements. So I'm not, I don't have as much pressure as I did back and fourth quarter of 2017. So really assess what, what are, what's so important to you right now? Is it, are you looking for someone to write you a check to, to publish your book? Then you, you need to go traditional. If that isn't important to you, and if control is important to you, you should really self-publish. So listen to the JT episode. I think it will be enlightening for you. Okay. Next one. Heather, I've been very curious about something. How did you find and connect with

your passion? Did it simply come to you? Oh my gosh. Were you constantly in search of it? No. Or was there an event that served as the catalyst for knowing? Ding, ding, ding. It would be the last one. Yeah, for sure. So here's the thing. Getting fired really thrust me into it. But before then, I had a mentor back when I was in radio. So this is going back probably six years ago, this mentor said to me one day, he said, you're always in the grind. You're always saying I'm so busy and I'm responsible for so much and I'm a single mom and I don't have time. He said, you've got to pick your head up at some point. So mind you, I was probably in my late 30s at this point. And on the outside, it was very successful. I wasn't fulfilled. I was making a lot of money. I had a great title. I love my team that worked for me, but I was missing something. And my son kind of opened my eyes to this as I watched him grow and felt that love and connection with him that there's got to be more in the world. Right. And he, when my mentor sat down that day, he challenged me to pick my head up and look for something more than what I was doing and to stop just looking at that linear advancement in corporate America.

I did that. That led me to charity work. So I began working with charities, specifically city year Miami. I ended up joining the board. I was with them for almost 10 years. And during that time, I started speaking for them for free because I was a board member and that was important to me to give back. And during that work, speaking for the charity, representing the charity and working on the board for them to help children, I started tapping into my passion, helping others, empowering others, elevating others and doing it's so in different ways, but oftentimes from a stage. And those were, that was the infancy, you know, six years ago of me starting down, actually it might even be seven years ago now, starting down a new path. It did not happen overnight. I was not aware it was happening when it was actually occurring. So I wasn't, I wasn't focused on it necessarily. The question had been posed to me by a mentor and I started down a different path as a result of it.

During that path and journey, I started working on my confidence and I started standing up for myself. And I started making some very subtle changes in my life over those next few years, which led me to get fired. And when I really stood up for myself, as you'll see in my TEDx talk, because I tell the whole story of how I got fired and what I did and how that power moment, I chose myself and my entire life changed. And I want that for you to. So, you know, I had that getting fired moment as a catalyst really for me to dive in full force into me, into creating confidence within me, into finding my superpowers and stepping into it, into shining my light, and into my passion, which I had been, you know, working a little bit with, but not full time.

And getting to work in your passion, in your power full time is pure magic. However, that does not mean it's easy. As I mentioned at the beginning of this show, you know, I've been sitting in my house, locked in my house for over a week, answering every single DM, posting nonstop on LinkedIn, messaging people back, asking every place I've spoken at in the past year to share my TEDx talk, asking everyone I know to post about my TEDx talk, asking everyone I know to like and comment, you know, I found out this weekend that I, in order to get promoted to TED, which is a goal of mine for, because that will really be the catalyst for reach a lot of people and share this message,

that I need to start tagging TED in things. As I go on this journey, just even with the TEDx talk that just came out, I'm learning so much more. So it's really about picking your head up, being open-minded, talking to people and networking and challenging yourself to say, just asking the question, what is my passion? And how do I get there? I had no idea six or seven years ago when I started down this road with that one question, my mentor asked me, and I'm still figuring it out now. It is not easy, but it's definitely worth it. And I hope for every one of you that you find your passion, because there is a way

for you to get paid for stepping into your passion and serving others. It's just going to, it might take a little bit of time to figure it out, and I don't want anyone to give up. And that's why I mentioned, I've been on LinkedIn for a decade. That's why I mentioned that before I got fired, I was already working on these things. You know, it wasn't like a light switch just went on and everything came together. It was certainly a process and it's a process I hope you're entering into that you're going for because you're worth it and you can make the difference in your life and you can create the life that you want. It just might take a little bit of time and a couple of bumps when you fall down just like me. So I hope you are off to a great week this week.

I can't wait to hear your questions. Please feel free to DM me as always. But before we wrap up and go, I have an amazing message for you. And this is so perfect with holiday time. What's in your jewelry box? Have you ever wondered what it's worth? I have, yes. Worthy is recognized as the premier online auction house for selling diamonds, fine jewelry, and luxury watches.

Oh my gosh, this really makes me want to dig out my old Rolex that I have not worn in forever. It's dedicated to getting you the best market value, typically two to three times more than local options for your jewelry. with its personalized full service auction. Every piece is carefully handled by its jewelry and watch experts, catalogued, photographed, cleaned, and graded prior to auction so that you can proceed with confidence knowing your jewelry is in good hands and that you're making the best choice in selling withworthy. Withworthy you receive complimentary FedEx shipping and insurance with Lloyds of London,

an independent grading report from a third-party lab, high-definition digital photography and video. Throughout the process, you will remain in full control of setting your reserve price for your private online auction to over 800 industry buyers. All done while you are busy preparing for the holidays. And best of all, have the extra money in time for your holiday giving. I like that one. Visit worthy.com slash confidence for an exclusive limited time offer for creating confidence listeners. Again, that is worthy.com slash confidence.

check it out if you're looking for some extra cash this holiday season and who isn't. This is such an easy way for you to take a look in that jewelry box and see what you might want to go ahead and turn in for cash. So hoping this was helpful to you all. And please, please, please, if you haven't, I'd love it if you'd watch my TEDx talk. It's on YouTube. You can find it in my Instagram handle anywhere and everywhere I post and on my website. It would mean the world to me. Till next week, keep creating confidence.