Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - #353: DEFINE & Align Your True Values To Find FULFILLMENT In Your Successes With Kevin Miller, Former Pro-Athlete & Self-Help Author

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

To check out OneSkin click here!  https://shareasale.com/u.cfm?d=1054216&m=102446&u=3821794&afftrack= To get your 15% one time use discount use code: Confidence Remember if you opt in for the subscription you can cancel any time but you can only use the discount code once. Overcome Your Villains is ON SALE on amazon right now In This Episode You Will Learn About:  How to ignite your drive and motivation with passion How to find balance between doing and being The Importance of clarifying values Embracing true passion  Resources: Visit: https://www.kevinmiller.co Listen: Self-Help Podcast Read: What Drives You LinkedIn: Self Helpful with Kevin Miller Instagram: @KevinMiller.co Youtube: @kevinmiller.co Visit heathermonahan.com Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/monahan Go to bit.ly/pipedrive-confidence for a 14-day free trial and get 20% off Pipedrive for 1 year! Go to cozyearth.com and get up to 35% off site wide when you use the code “CONFIDENCE” Show Notes:  What you DO doesn’t define you! Defining your VALUES at your core and what DRIVES you can lead you down a more efficient and fulfilling path in life and business. You just have to get CLEAR on what you really want. The inspirational Kevin Miller, former pro-athlete, author of the book What Drives You and host of the podcast Self Helpful, will teach you to delve into the power of drive, the importance of values, and the transformative impact of relationships. Get ready to be inspired and motivated to pursue your OWN dreams and create meaningful connections that are aligned and purposeful.  About The Guest: Kevin is a former pro athlete, respected peak performance and self-help guide, top-ranking podcast host, published author, and father of nine who has devoted himself to helping people elevate their own experience and improve the way they show up. After decades of pro cycling, pursuing high achievement personally and professionally, starting multiple businesses, and raising a big family, Kevin found himself burnt out and lacking what he wanted most; sustained peace and fulfillment. His seemingly limitless life had found its limit. In an attempt to understand what was actually driving him, he dedicated himself to studying personal growth, self-awareness, and what truly fulfills people. Today, his “Self Helpful” podcast is in the top 1% of all podcasts and his upcoming book, “What Drives You” (McGraw Hill) drops in May 2023. If You Liked This Episode You Might Also Like These Episodes: #348: DON’T Let Life Slip Through Your Fingers! With Heather! #289: The Science Of Happiness With Marc Schultz Associate Director Of The Harvard Study Of Adult Development #273: The Key To Motivate Yourself When You Aren’t Feeling It, With Robin Arzón, Vice President Of Fitness Programming & Head Instructor At Peloton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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want. I'm on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals. We've come at diversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. After no sleep, I'm ready for my close time. Hi and welcome back.

I'm so excited for you to meet our guest this week. Kevin Miller, he's a former pro athlete, respected personal development guide, top ranking podcast host, No joke, published author and father of nine who has devoted himself to helping people elevate their personal experience and improve the way they show up for others. Kevin hosts the self-helpful podcast, which yours truly was recently on Go Catch That episode, which has over 60 million downloads and is routinely visited by today's most influential change makers. His book What drives You,

challenges today's mis-ondriven people and serves as a guide for clarity and conviction in what you authentically value and what truly motivates you. Kevin, thank you so much for being on the show with me today. Man, it's a blast to be talking with you again. And I love coming on shows with people I've had on mine, because I have context. We've already resonated. And so this is just nothing but fun. Thank you. It is so fun. I'm so excited. And it's so funny.

And you know this from being a host, when you do show prep to have someone on your show, you get to know them so much better. Yes, you and I have spoken many times. I consider you a friend, you're a great person. But now I know so much more about your story. So it's even more exciting, you know, getting to sit down with you today. So I'm super cyclist.

And I really want to start being a former pro athlete is such a flipping big deal. In my world, my son was like dying to be an NBA player. So we're constantly falling pro sports, talking pro sports. And I'm watching the dedication, the work ethic, the sacrifices and the drive needed to make it happen. Will you take us back a little bit till what was it like becoming a pro athlete?

It was fun. I mean, I think you're supposed to say how hard it was and whatever it meant. That's all we did. It's all I knew. The guys I hung out with, we lived together, we trained together, we progressed together, we were on the same teams together, we traveled around the world together. It was my posse. It was like the blue zones, like Dan but not blue zones. And it so spurred us on. And it was just a blast. I mean, it took us around the world. So we got to experience so much. I'm grateful for it just for that. But then the competition too

was so, I mean, I finally got tired of the lifestyle, but I can still, man, watch a bike race or see the finish and it just raises it all back up. And I still race at an elite level off road today. It was great. I'm so grateful for what it taught me and for what it exposed me to. What are the biggest teachings that you take away from that time? I was good and bad ones, Heather. Now in retrospect, I look back and saw I was, I wish I had been more coachable. I was a little bit more interested somewhat in the rivalries, even amongst peers, you know, on a training ride. Sometimes I put more into that than in the race.

So I wish I had been more strategic and it gets part of my story about what drives you. What drives you, man? It was just going fast and doing stuff that I really set a goal. This is what I want to achieve and I didn't always do that. So that's part of the book as well. But man, it taught me so much just about my own personal growth. I'll never forget a guy when I first went over to Europe. I had a hard time initially and literally the races I didn't finish. He said, man, every time you don't finish a race, you know, you drop out, you think you're

out of contention, you drop out, it makes it that much easier to quit the next time. You're training your brain. Sounds pithy now, but back then, I'm like, oh, man. And it changed not only how I race, but even in my own training, thinking, okay, if today is Hill repeat today, and I'm supposed to do five repeats up that mountain, I'm not going to quit because if I quit, it trains me to quit. Now, I hold that lightly because, you know, I can get caught up. I've let myself be imprisoned by that sometimes and go, okay, I do need to be, you know, it's not maybe not a hundred percent of the time, but for the most part, I'm training my brain. And then just the aspect of seeing your progress, you know, seeing the failure, seeing the

successes and grappling with that and learning about yourself. I mean, that's the valuable part about sports, not that that's the only place, but it is, and doing it at a high level. I mean, my gosh, it's in the adrenaline rush. No doubt. It's incredible. I love that you just brought that idea up

when we quit on something that we're actually training ourselves that it's okay to quit because the first thing that popped into my mind, no comparison to being a pro athlete, but I run in Miami, which obviously you know, certain times of year, it is so much more challenging than other times right like January you can go for a run it's no big deal you might not break a sweat. But if you go for a run like today and I say and it's a hundred degrees in the humidity is so hot it's really hard to breathe right. to breathe, right? And so I went through this mental thing where I'm like, okay, this is my training moment. Like if I can push through this, it's going to be so easy to run any other time.

Like I'm going to make it so much easier. But to your point, I quit my run, which I never do, because I literally, I was having a hard time breathing. And when I did that the next time, when I got to the same location, I'm like, oh, this is where I take my, like I stopped again. I had trained myself and not realizing it. So thank you for articulating that. Oh, this is where I stopped last time, it's fine that I'm stopping again.

And to your point, yes, it's important to give ourselves grace, but I can tell you this after just hearing you say that there is no chance I'm gonna stop at that point again, because I don't wanna train myself to quit. Yeah, so at this point, I've trained myself, I'm not a stop at that point again because I don't want to train myself to quit. Yeah. So at this point, I've trained myself. I'm not a quitter.

I know I can keep going. I know I can keep doing it. If there's a given day where I'm just, man, I'm not in the mindset. I go out. I've had some of those and I thought, you know what? I'm just not feeling it today. And I'm really focused. Especially I've got an idea.

I got something going on and I really just want to go deal with that. You know, it's not like I'm going back to eat Cheetos on the couch. I'll let myself go do that and then knowing that the next day I may go out with not a whole lot in mind and feel really good and just triple my effort and go out there. So I've learned, you know, who I am, but especially in those early years, I think for anybody, if you're starting a business, if you're starting your own personal growth, pursuing athletics, you know, pursuing weight loss, whatever that there is so much in getting past those hurdles of quitting. And it's interesting you say that I've got places on my

rides and rides, I know those are hard spots, you know, and I kind of get used to slowing down or that's where I walk. And then I'll remember, okay, don't go ahead and run that even if you walk somewhere else, don't make that the point that you always walk. Don't let that be a triggered point for you. So to what you said, I agree. Yeah, I'm so in for that one. So thank you for giving me that little teaching. That's gonna help me a lot. And I really appreciate it.

Okay, so one of the things that interest me about pro athletes and former pro athletes specifically on the outside looking in, like I would imagine, you know, you've reached the height of the height. Like this is, I mean, most kids dream, right? Just to be that level of success in sports. And this kid too, I've played sports my whole life. Like, that just seems incredible to me.

How do you transition from that? Is it such a letdown to go to work for yourself? But then you've come back as this massively successful podcast host. What does that transition like? But then you've come back as this massively successful podcast post. What has that transition like has that been hard challenging or rewarding? Or did you anticipate it? I didn't. I kind of quit abruptly, though it was at the timeline too.

And I just had other things going on. By the time I quit, I had three kids. And that's abnormal on the pro cycling scene. I was known for that somewhat. And I had other things going on so it wasn't like I left myself. I struggled a little bit with that was my identity, for sure. Probably the best integer question,

the saving grace, again, to use that word, was I had been doing things alongside it in the industry that really related to my overall, if you wanna call it, you're calling. This is what I would call it, my purpose that really related to my overall, if you want to call it, you're calling. This is what I would call my purpose that I had found. And even in cycling, my soul focus wasn't just winning a race. I realized there's a long story to it, but I realized the influence I had bottom line. So as a pro cyclist, here I am, and I'm riding alongside, maybe a sponsor and you know, some CEO, dude, worth bazillions of dollars and we're out on a ride together.

And out on the road, we're peers. And actually, I'm the expert. And it changed the paradigm. And here's this guy opening up about his life and his marriage and stuff. I'm going to do what I'm just some, you know, 23 year old punk. And you're telling me this and it dawned on me. Oh, but out here, I have respect and credibility. And I care about people in that sense. I do care about, you know, taking something that excites me and

inspiring other people with it. And so I started doing that. And we created a club and then we owned our own team and then we did events. So when I did leave the competing of it, I just continued those pieces of it. And now here we are all this time later, I'm doing the same thing. You know, I'm using a platform to reach people with inspiring messages, personal growth. That's what I care to do. And it's interesting as you watch my trajectory amongst a lot of different endeavors. That's what I always gravitated back to. If I could do anything, I'd go back and just be more clear on, oh, I keep coming to that. That's what's important. I think it would have helped me embrace it more as opposed to go after the next shiny object only to come back to doing what I always come back to. But that helped a lot

when I didn't view myself as that's me. I'm only the guy on the bike racing for the podium. Now, there's other stuff I'm doing. And so that transition, call it transferable skills was dramatic. Otherwise, I think it would have been a lot harder to leave. For everybody listening right now, because I know for me, I couldn't see forward when I went through the position of transition for me was getting fired, that idea, well, I have seen these patterns in my life, but where does this lead me? Like, how do people identify those patterns that now you can look back and see so clearly we're leading you to where you are today? Like, how can someone who's in the middle of that identify it?

What's some degree to shameless self promotion? That's what my book is about. It was what I wanted for people. Honestly, it was my adult kids that I initially had the thought for, but it was a co-joined idea too with realizing that some of the errant areas of my life were because I hadn't gotten clear on what I really value, which is to me the heart of what drives us. When we know what we value for us and us alone, not other people's expectations, when we know what we value and we know why,

that helps us understand that bigger picture of what we're about. Now, I didn't go after that with absolute clarity, but I'll give credit to my upbringing, honestly, my parents and the culture that I grew up with, they were very values driven people. So even though I didn't have it written up on the wall, didn't have a goal sheet out with it,

I didn't know it written up on the wall, didn't have a goal sheet out with it. I didn't know what I, what I valued. And so that kept me almost subconsciously somewhat, you know, it kind of kept me in the direction that I wanted to go and kept me pursuing those opportunities. I just wasn't clear. That's why I say I think if I had been clear, I would have been a lot more efficient. I wouldn't have made as many mistakes as I did. And along the way, I went, I did go a ride on some different ideas that were shiny objects that I would get into, you know, start a business. I had one particular kind of during the dot com thing, started it. It just killed it. And I left because I just realized I don't give a crap. I wasn't motivated by money. I should have a little bit more back then. But I just left. And I

walked away literally went to a meeting with my partner with a bank. We doubled our business and I walked out in parking lot. I said, you know what, dude, I'm out. I was pursuing something now that, you know, that kind of fit my heart. It was growing a community. And I left it and I wish I had not wasted that time or been that unclear on things. Or maybe I would have brought that value into that business and stayed with it and made some money. So I did have a lot of wobbly endeavors because of a sure lack of clarity. So here I am with people with the book, with my kids saying, okay, get clear on what you

value. What do you really care about for you in these areas of life? Right now, it may change and evolve, but what do you care about right now that you own for you, not for somebody else? And do you know specifically why it's a holy grail to me, obviously, I wrote a book about it. And I want to get into what drives you, but you just brought something up that I don't want to miss. So anywhere, yeah. You just brought up your ability to create community, which you've done massively well for everyone listening that with so many people,

you can be a personal brand these days, you can work in corporate America, but you still wanna develop that community. What are some of the tips and tricks you can give people so that they can grow their communities? Man, right off the cuff, and this came up recently, Heather, and talking with somebody else.

I think they asked me about how I had seen things in this industry of personal growth and inspiration, whatever, how I had seen things in this industry of personal growth and inspiration, whatever, how I had seen things change. And I think today, back in the day, if we go back in time somewhat, I think there was that aspect of you're up on stage because you figured it out. And you're going to tell everybody else how you figured it out. And there's still some personalities that come across that way these days, but not many. Most of them like to feel they're on the journey with you. And so it was an interesting combination for me and that I grew up in that industry.

And I got soured by the people who were up on stage, acting like they had it all figured out. I was struggling with my own ego. I didn't want to be one of those people either. And then authentically, I don't feel like I've arrived at anything fully. I may have been around the corner, but I had you on the show and I'd hide you on there and I'm asking you questions. Tell me more about that message. Let me learn. Let me understand. I think people really appreciate that. And I think they also just feel the spirit behind it. And this is what I mean, you can tell, this is what I get excited about. If we start talking about money and finances, all of a sudden, I'm going to kind of be down here and we can talk. And hopefully I'll have something smart to say.

But it's just not my gig, you know? And you hear that. Here, people feel that I want it for them. You know, I started off in podcasting with the Ziggler show, Zigg Ziggler. And he was one of those key people, man, he just felt him. He just believed in you more than you did for yourself. And he wanted it. And I love that about him. And I think at least in, you know, the personal growth aspects, that's how I he wanted it. And I love that about him. And I think at least in, you know, the personal growth aspects, that's how I feel for myself and I feel for others. And I think that comes across. And as you talk about as a podcast toast and as a leader, I think people feel after a while, it's so great about podcasts. And you can't listen that long. You know,

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That's fourpatriots.com use code confidence to get yours today. That's such a great point. John Maxwell has a new book out, 16 laws of communication. And the biggest point in his book is exactly what you said. You don't want to separate yourself from the audience. You don't want to say how you're so much better than everybody else.

You want to bring them along with you. You want to join in with them, have them saying me too and have that relationship with you. And I think that's so important. And without it out when you're explaining it, that's the one thing people relate to with me is sharing that story of I got fired. And here's how I'm moving forward. And I certainly don't have any of it figured out, but here's the mistakes I've made along

the way. So hopefully you don't have to make them. That's a really great point for everyone listening right now, showing up and sharing that you don't own everything that you aren't the biggest expert is actually going to be your superpower. So thank you so much for sharing that. All right, I do want to get into your new book. And I love that you have a huge podcast.

But one of the cool things that you did with the book was you really highlighted so many things that you had learned from your guests in the show. You have the most incredible roster of guests on your show. And to take some of these brilliant takeaways and to starting right off in the beginning of your book, highlighting some of these stories and teachings was so incredibly powerful. Did you know that that's how you would structure this book?

And was this a big strategy when you launched the podcast? It was. I mean, it's amazing. Yeah, I get to sit here with people like you and talk about, you know, have conversations that matter, about issues that matter, about personal growth. You know, which again, that's my area. I play with finance still over here,

because that's not my, that's not the fun place for me. So I don't sit and have financial talks about personal growth. Man, that's, we're in my ballpark now. And so a couple of responses to that, Heather, one is, yeah, I realized along with this aspect of drive and understanding what you want and knowing why that that typified the people I had on the show, I didn't go after them because I knew that I found out afterwards, it man, son of a gun.

It so happens to be that pretty much everybody on my show, I mean, they're there because they figured out something that they wanted or some things, I would say it's never one thing. They found out their values and they understood why they wanted them. They were pretty clear on that and they went after them. And boom, here we are. And we're talking because of that. And I even noticed at the time that I came up with the idea for the book, I really came up with the desire to pursue this concept of drive, that there were pieces, even on my guests, that I wasn't experiencing, like peace.

I was driven, doing a lot of things, and having fun in that, having fun experiences, and even fulfillment. Man, I was lacking some peace that I saw in a lot of them. And I find out from areas that I was unclear of about myself, especially my own personal awareness. And so it was a journey into what I wanted for me, again, what I wanted for my kids,

and what I wanted with other people. But yeah, as a matter of fact, I started to make it, there were so many stories of other people that, it was actually my literary agents at one point, like, do you need some of your own stories in there as well? You got to exist in there. Like, yeah, but these stories are so great. And so I did, you know, I've got plenty of relevant stories, but I love that.

That I have the messages of so many people like you, Heather. I mean, we did a four part series on you, on overcome your villains, on your, you know, message and stuff. And so now I've got Heather quotes, you know, in my head, not just from reading them somewhere, even but engaging with you and talking about them. And then, you know, having a hall of a Tahoe on the show and talking about you. And yesterday, I talked with Amy Marin and with the overlap of you. And it helps ingrain it into my head. So, yeah, my guests, the format of the show has been, that's a ridiculous privilege that we get to do this

and make money from it. I would pay to come down to Miami. I'm sure it would cost me a lot and sit with you and glean from you and yet we get to do it here and we both get paid for it and we benefit from it and not just our own personal growth. It's a ridiculous privilege. It's wild, but I do have to say the way you structured the book,

the action steps that you put in the book, it's so useful. It's like literally looking at all these incredible, brilliant minds that you've had, taking the best teachings from them, incorporating them with personal stories. So it's super interesting, engaging, and then giving action steps for the reader, which I personally love, because once someone walks

away from reading the book, they're not going to be wondering, what is my purpose? What is that next thing that I need to do? You've really laid out a very nice roadmap. So I'd like that to be getting you mentioned that you were actually doing this for your adult children. What was that? Like it was it a conversation or they were coming to you with the same questions of how to move forward and what to do with their life? It sounds weird, because it sounds like, you know, back when I cared about my kids, like I don't,

but there was a season where Saturday mornings I'd be up before them. I think it was when they were still all at the house pretty much, but maybe one or two had left, you know, and so they're kind of out and it was a new place for me. And I would find myself writing thoughts for them and I'd email it out back then. And this was one and I realized, man, all the things that I care about, I just want them to know what they want and to know why.

And that gravitated into drive. And some of that is relevant. Some of it, you'll appreciate this and you've got a lot of business folks in your audience that we also use the word drive because it's sexier than saying know what you want. That's just kind of a boring title, you know, so it was driven around that but I do love that when drive came up. I had a lot of people testify that man Kevin, we know you as a driven guy. It's a great perspective or vernacular for you to use for this. And it's made up of what you want your values, which is a really important word to me overall, knowing what you value for you and then why the alignment of that. So yeah, coming into what I wanted for my kids with this was big. And again, realizing that those are the two myths

that I talk about in the book is that we think some people are driven and some people aren't. I think, no, we all got it. And as some people, it's just, it's dormant hasn't been triggered yet. So that's one. And the other is that drive is everything. And of course, we know that is not the case as well.

Because I spend a lot of time driving really fast towards, I don't even know where, man, but I'm just trying, it's like that. I have that in the book, Yogi Barry, you know, being lost on the way to the baseball hall of fame. And his wife says, Yogi, you know, you're lost. And he says, yeah, we're making great time. I actually heard that from David Lee Roth. And I thought, holy smokes, that's funny. And I really relate. I kind of cringey a little bit too. So man, playing with those is so fun. But I love driven people too. That's why I had you on the show. Let's start with that first myth that some people are driven, some people are not.

I know that a lot of people listening right now are going to say, I listened to this show because I'm not driven enough. I want to be more driven. Can you break that down a little bit for us? Yeah, I do. I mean, it irritates me because I think we discount ourselves and we discount others. We go, oh, you know, Barbara's really driven, uh, bummer, Johnny's and just not at all. Doesn't have any in him. Like, you know, he didn't win the lottery. He didn't get the genetics, you know, some people get red hair, some people don't. Yeah. Look at the draw. And I think I kind of used to align with that just because that's the common cultural perspective. And then I saw way too many examples of and back to so many stories of people that that was not

the case. They were not, quote, driven. Nobody would have looked at them and said that. And one of those stories is what I lead off chapter one of the book. It's Ben Hardy, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, one of the best selling authors out there, really incredible guy. I had him on a show. I think I've had him on like four times and he makes us little quip about, yeah, you know, and my parents, they blew up and our religious construct blew up.

And so I find myself at 19 barely made out of high school. I'm playing video games 14 hours a day and just had nothing. And I have him on the show and I'm going, okay, wait, that pisses me off. The one and one doesn't equal to in this scenario because that violates everything that I would want to do as a parent and I would want to impart to my kids so that they're, you know, driven and successful and whatever. He had none of it. And here he is having in a lot of ways succeeded in a lot of areas way faster and more than

I had. Let's break this down. How does this happen? And he's one of those examples of everybody would have said he had no experience. He had no drive. He had no drive. He had no exposure to anything good. He had none of the ingredients to ever result in anything. And yet he finds himself and his dad, his methodic to dads, you know, how he's looking

around going, well, if this doesn't change, I'm probably not headed towards anything good. I probably should do something different. Did that wasn't some cataclysmic event? He didn't get bit by a spider and wake up with superpowers. It was just a little bit of a dawning. And I found so many of the stories of these successful people are kind of like that. It's just this dawning. They had drive in them. They just nothing had triggered it yet, but it was there. They didn't all of a sudden have a dawning like him. And then go, oh, well, now I have to go get a gene implant to be driven or pursue self help for the next decade. Now do they just kind of became driven over now? You've heard that, you know, everybody's heard that was somebody who gets the heart attack diagnosis or somebody dies in their

life and it just changes the paradigm and all of a sudden there's zero to hero overnight. The drive was there. We don't lack it. We didn't genetically get brought into the world without it. We may not have found something we care about enough to trigger it, but it's there. The first thing that you suggest, then I'm putting words in your mouth, but taking it from the book, when people are in a situation where they're not feeling driven or other people are telling them they're not driven is to really get to that why Instead of looking at the what start getting at that why why are you here? What is your purpose? What is important to you? totally and

Another piece that was really interesting to me Heather and it was a guy I'll never forget and he was Relating to me. I don't know if it was a show I was on or I can't remember. I wish I could because it's a part of my story. But he just referred to me as Kevin, I wish I was as disciplined as you are. Okay. And he said that because it's so blatant that I was a pro athlete today.

I'm fit and athletic and exuberant whatever. And so I get credit for that as being disciplined. And so the guy says that to me. And then real quick, somehow I got talking about his Google back to money finances. I don't think he had some big job or whatever, but he just took care of his finances. And he had like five million in the bank or something like that. And he didn't invest it. And he didn't really need to work anymore. Holy crap, dude. And you're saying I'm disciplined. You got that skewed. You are too, just not in an area that's as blatant as me. And I find that with most people, they discount themselves

because maybe in some of the hot light, things that we hold up in our culture, they don't feel disciplined, but they are in some other areas, is often the case. And it's interesting even amongst, I always call aspiring people. Now we had Arthur Brooks on the show recently and he talks about strivers, you know, he calls them strivers in his book, The Strength of Strength. Even there though, I find a lot of people who are really

down on themselves and they're having success. They've got drive over here, maybe in their work, maybe in their killing it or their finances, you know, they're killing it, but over here they've got relational stuff, you know, that has really gone downhill or spiritually they're killing it or they're finances or they're killing it. But over here, they've got relational stuff that has really gone downhill or spiritually they feel bereft or something like that or something's going or maybe the opposite, man, they've got great relationships and great health and wellness and their finances are just terrible. We focus on the negative and don't give our credit for no work. We're doing the math over here. We know what we want. We're going after it. We know why and it's working. But the same, we think the same math isn't working over here.

And that's what we focus on and we get down on ourself. I'm not driven. I'm not whatever. Yeah, you are. But over here, to use the vernacular of my book, you're out of alignment. You may not know what you really want and you probably don't know why on either case. And something's out of alignment. One of the other or both.

That's why it's not working, which was me back when success, here, success, here, success, here, and then boom over here. And I have again, financials, I'd sabotage so many business things and finance is because of what I would call a hidden drive. So how does the listener get in alignment? Read my book and sound, you know, self-serving there, but that's what I wrote it for because it is difficult and we get a lot of, you know, a lot of counsel on set your goals. And when I see that and I see it's, it works for some people well.

So many people don't really use that word align with that because they don't know what they want. And it sounds like I'm supposed to find this holy grail calling or purpose. And so I separated out and I really drew from Zig Zigler's Wheel of Life. Anybody can look that up. Type in Zig Zigler Wheel of Life. And lots of people have different variations, but he has seven spokes. I pretty much use that. I'm a little liberal with how I use it. But let's go through these areas of life and look at what you want and why. And now let's get to, I feel like my next book needs to be like the five levels of why because every why we give, you know, we got to go about five levels below that to get to the real why. So we give the face

value. And what is amazing is how often people haven't really clarified what they really want. The emphasis on day, what they really want. It seems all elementary. When I speak it, it seems elementary. Well, most common sense is not that common these days. I mean, we've got all the information that we need to be the healthiest, wealthiest nation in the world. And we're the sickest fatest, saddest nation in the world. It's not working. So over here on goals and knowing what we want, we really don't. We take the cultural expectations and adopt ourselves to those. And that's not what we want. I really work on the book so much of kind of a hidden agenda

is to give you permission to question what the hell you really want just for you and you alone. And I really try to separate other people out of that. Take away your parents, your spouse, your friends, your culture, whatever. What do you want? Not to minimize that. Social pressure is real.

I struggle with it too, or I care about it. But man, to look at what do you really want and question that and then understand, okay, this is what I think I want. Okay, let's filter that through why? Why do you want that? Well, I think it's because this, let's go a little deeper. I think it's that, and for a lot of people, it's like holy crap. No wonder I don't enjoy X or no wonder I really enjoy this. And it's just amazing how blind we sweet

me too. So often are. Oh my god, it's so true. And I think for everybody, it's a little different. And that's why I love the seven spokes that you broke it down into because I know for me, and I'm just going to read like, and again, this is what hit me or was so relevant to me, where for sure there will be other people that are going to have different chapters that are going to really hit them. But for me, this really supposed to be page 48 in your book, if faith in a greater power is cited by 99 out of 100 of the world's most influential people, it would seem we should give that as much attention as we do. Their teachings on business and success as it speaks beyond what they do and gets to the root of why they do it. This was such a powerful

portion of the book for me as a child that grew up and you talk a lot about our environment growing up and really identifying, you know, I grew up in a Catholic broken family which there was a lot of lack and a lot of struggle and life was hard and it was very much religion-based, not spiritual-based which again for everyone listening right now, this is not a religious book, he's not pushing religion, he's bringing up the concept of faith, which is so important, so powerful in my life right now, and so timely for me, that it really helped me reflect back to the way I have been thinking, because of the way I wrote,

which I really just separated myself from and basically tried to forget about and not acknowledge. But your book really made me think about it and see it in a very different way, which empowered me. I feel like it empowers me so much more now. So I'm sure other people had an eye-opening moment to from this portion of the book. Thank you, Heather. It comes back to values. And to what you said earlier, that's what I saw again amongst my guests and an experience with myself, you know, with other people is the people who had, I'm going to call it, I've

been playing with it lately, you know, big-est success, not just little-est, which is success in one area of life with, you know, catastrophe everywhere, but just the big success that we all want, the peace and joint fulfillment across the board, With those people, they knew what they valued in most areas of life. And even that, yes, spirituality, which is a place that a lot of people don't really want to hit on. Thank you for saying not, not religiosity,

not a religion, it's not pushing one thing, but just saying spiritually. And I'm gonna say at the core of that, I define spirituality. And I think spirituality is defined by devotion and belief in something greater than just you and you alone. And if that's the environment or humanity or whatever, that's okay, we don't have to define that to begin with.

You may wanna do that later, but a devotion something bigger, I'd call that value, even amongst my guests, when you were on the show, we do a four part series, a second part is your value, what drives you, so what drives Heather? And we talked about spirituality right off the bat. And you would just light up. He said, I had such a big part of my life. And I'm saying, I kind of see that with everybody I have on the show, even if they're not, they may not be going to church, they may not attest to a certain religion, but what fires them up is a devotion to something

greater than self. That's the essence of spirituality. So yeah, to put that in the book of wealth, everybody I have on the show, every these successful people, put value on that, probably a good value to consider how you, what you think about it, what you want out of that and why and not get caught up. I think especially with spirituality, not to go down that route, but most people devalue that today because they know what they don't want. So they just get rid of all of it as opposed to saying, okay, but what do I want? And so yeah, we can talk forever on that. I have a big one to me, I think without that devotion to something greater, then it's devotion just to yourself.

Man, I don't see it working out well. It's too much of a struggle and the struggle doesn't need to be that hard is what I've learned. And for anyone listening right now that saying, yeah, but I'm just not there yet, curious, but not there. Then start putting yourself in runs and environments with people who are there. I was big into this with business, right? Like, I was like, I always want to be near the billionaire. I want to be near the person that just bought and sold this huge company.

But I wasn't thinking of it in these other aspects of life. I want to be near the people with great marriages. So I can start learning like, what are their strategies there that I don't understand it to be spiritually evolved? Who are those people that I can get in an environment with? And whenever you get the chance, a merse, people don't have to be full of hopeful, successful Justin revenues. And I did believe that for a long time. But you do such a good job in this book of laying out all of these different aspects that do. I'm certainly not there yet, but now it gives me more of that roadmap. Okay, here's an area in my life, which I haven't figured out. Like these are some of the questions I need to start getting curious about and surrounding people who have found success in that niche and that environment and that area of their life. And it's just it's helpful. It's humbling, but it's helpful because it's empowering you to improve your life. Totally.

I mentioned it before Dan butiner. He wrote the blue zones. I've talked about that book. It's interesting. Every time I bring his name up, I have never pursued him to be on the show. And I talk about now you have to. I mean, that's crazy. I know I because I love the concept I rely on.

It's so much. And yeah, Heather, I find myself more and more going after groups. I love the concept I rely on it so much. And yeah, Heather, I find myself more and more going after groups. Well, you and I just talked about it. I'm talking about joining a podcasting network that you're a part of. And some of it is because, oh, gosh, I'm seeing this and this and this happen. I want that. So I can go try to emulate it. I can try to learn from it, which is valid or I can just freaking join it.

And at this point, I just want to do that. And I spend time going after groups of people to immerse myself as you're talking about with these groups who are succeeding, or even just they're pursuing success here. They may not have all arrived. But man, that is their hunger. I want to be with those people because it gets my mind on correct that. I don't know if there's anything more powerful, honestly, than that. Just what you said. Just surrounding yourself with the right people. It may be the most powerful either way. If you want to go downhill, surround yourself with those people. If you want to go uphill, this is elementary stuff, and we're all succeeding or dying from it.

Well, it's helpful too, from a contrast that I realized, no, I used to beat myself up for it. Like, if I was having this conversation with you, I'd hang up and say, gosh, now when I look back in my life, I see why I wasn't spiritually evolved for. I was around people that didn't care at all about spiritual. It was not even on the radar. But instead of beating myself up, I can look back now objectively and say, wow, things weren't that easy.

Doors weren't just opening for me back then. Look who I was spending time with back then. I remember some of the struggles those people had. I was taking those on and seeing that as normal because that was the environment I was putting myself in. I was seeing that, yes, life is hard. And no, there isn't something bigger than us here at work. And then I cut to the people I'm surrounding myself

with now, what I'm learning from them and how differently. Again, back to Grace people I'm surrounding myself with now, what I'm learning from them and how differently, right? Like, again, back to Grace, I give myself Grace now because of books like this that are so empowering to really give you that perspective. And yes, all the information is out there in the world and it's coming at us 9 million miles an hour. But your book specifically breaks it down in such a simplistic way that I feel like every single person who reads this book is going to take something in a perspective shift that's going to really

empower them to say, this is the area I can tweak. Now, are you hearing some of those stories from your readers? Yes. Can I talk about the book real quick? I think you and I talked about this. So for everybody, here's some inside behind the scenes, I guess, I'm writing a book. So I knew the concept of this that we're talking about. And I put it down and I delivered it to my publisher, McGrawhill, one of the biggest publishers out there. And they said,

Kevin, we're still with you on the concept. The book is crap. Honestly, they didn't use that word. But to me, that's what I heard. They said, the book is, it just doesn't roll at all. And what I can realize is, okay, I write a lot, but I am not an author. I've never done this before. And so I went in essence to school and looked at, how do you structure a book? And I shouldn't know. I kind of thought that I would just know this through osmosis of being such a prolific reader. Apparently, that wasn't the case. And so I went and looked at structure of the best selling books out there. And I literally bought stuff and just started studying it. Atomic habits, which is, I don't know, I can't remember the last self-help or, you

know, nonfiction book that sold more than it has and is still selling. But atomic habits and ginsens, seros, ure bad ass and Mark Manson's, the subtle art of not giving it an F and what, and I started studying them, reached out and got some help from people. There's one lady in particular who had kind of diagrammed James Clears, atomic habits. He says, look what he did here. He gave you the story. He pointed out what the point is. He told you how to do it. He reiterates the point and he blah, blah, blah. Dude, I just followed that. I'd read the book, sent it back to my literary agents and they said, whoa, dude, you're

tracking now so well that let's ramp it up even more. And so I'm with a publisher. I got in advance. They have editors. I should be taking care of it. Instead, I went, took my own money or took that, you know, the advance money. And I paid, I actually paid the lady who acquired an edited Jensen Syros book. you're a badass and paid to have it revamped even more. So yeah, I did put a lot of effort into that structure. It wasn't my own brilliance at all. It was looking and going, okay, what's working? How about if we model that? I should have done that day one, but I let my own arrogance honestly get in the way. I thought, no, I'm just going to with this thing. That'll be awesome. And that was not the case. So I total rewrite. And then I

may have to that that edits and revisions were nuts. So yeah, what's there today? Oh my gosh, the hope that I had from other people that I studied from people I paid from my publisher, from my literary agents is huge to get a book to the point of, oh, now it follows the pattern that people want to see, and so it'll resonate with them. So thank you for the structure. I did put a lot of work into it. It wasn't out of my own brilliance at all. It doesn't need to cost a fortune for you to live your best life. Some of the smallest changes that we can make don't cost a ton but can make you feel so happy in your own skin and in your own home. That's what cozy earth is doing for me.

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But you just brought up so many great points. Number one, success leaves clues, right? So we need to look for it. Number two, you need to invest in yourself. You reinvested the money that you got right back into finding the people who'd already been where you wanted to go and showing you how to get there. You know, this is, I agree with you.

When I wrote my first book, I had no idea what the structure was. I invested and hired somebody who actually knew how to do it, right? So investing in yourself always, always pays. Okay, so when we look at the book and the different concepts that you've broken it down to in what drives you, one of the areas that I loved other than just the faith side was what drives your relationships you are, who you love. I found that really interesting and unexpected.

Can you talk to us a little bit about that portion? That one, that was humbling, honestly. You know, Heather's, I looked at that and I have, you know, as you talked about, I have nine kids. You have talked about drive, you know, we didn't have no plan, man, we're just driving. I don't know where that came along, you know, that so many kids, it's such a big family, but relationship, I mean, it's so pithy to say, you know, relationships are what matter most. And I, on this concept, I just had this thought, I like to play mind games with myself to kind of change my paradigm. And I thought, you know, what if I woke up tomorrow,

the world's just like it is. It's not some dystopian thing. The world's just like it is, but there's just nobody there. I like solitude. It shouldn't that be okay, man. I'll just, you know, I'll read and I'll write and I'll do it. I thought, no, what's the purpose? I mean, what am I going to do? Go eat sushi to like explode and drive a Ferrari around a racetrack and go swim. I just, I'm done, man. I just killed myself literally. That's a thought that I had. There's, and it just elevated the holly smacks and relationships. I mean, that is at the end of the day. There was a guy I used, or I got into one time, Thomas Merton, he was a monk and real famous monk. I don't think he's living anymore. And I read some story or somebody got me reading on his stuff and he spent like, I'm totally exaggerating the point. But you know, three years in a cave,

just him and God, I'm thinking, really, who's that serving is what I thought? Who's that serving? Go get married, have some kids, serve some people, go, you know, serve at the homeless shelter. Come on. Well, later on, then it was kind of during the same time of this kind of morbid thing of nobody's on earth. I read about happened to stumble on him. Well, during that time in essence, while he's on his own, he wrote 54 books. I mean, the guy took what he had and he wanted to impart to other people and he did. And he had relationships. Again, I'm exaggerating the point, but he did. I mean, we want to have impact and influence and have meaning to other people. And so bringing that, you know, relationships and again, coming to the people that I've seen that I revere as having

true success, their devotion to others to relationships is primary. Doesn't mean that they've all knocked it out of the park. There's lots of people who have divorce in the past, maybe have two divorces in the past or have kids that are alienated that have been or are alienated. It didn't mean that all the relationships are perfect, but man, that is what matters to them, even as they stumble and bumble along as we all do. So it's not that. And I think I used to kind of, I missed the point of relational devotion, even in Heather thought oh if you're devoted relationships are all perfect right Well, no, so don't put that as a pressure there But it's still the devotion and kind of back to the spirituality a devotion to something greater to self and the devotion to other people that It really at the end of the day is what drives everybody when I hit on back to spirituality

There are plenty of people on the show who when I ask that question initially, and I'm talking, somebody who's got a YouTube video or a TED talk with 50 million views and they're toast to the town and they're pretty happy. Sometimes I just about spirituality out and go, gosh, it's not a big focal point in my life. They're almost a little uncomfortable. And I'll point out, yeah, but you devoted your life

to helping other people over here and like, oh, yeah, what else is there? Like that's that spirit job, you know, and again, it's relationships. And I see those as so hand in hand and so foundational long answered your question, but obviously means a lot to me. It obviously does. Now that you've gone through and put yourself through all of these pieces, these practices, have you found that piece that you were so wanting to find? A great much more dramatically more. I think it'll always be a struggle for me, Heather, to find that I, you know, stopping and being present is not my natural go to my drive. I think you and I talked about this, you know, on the show, when I had you on the show that I

struggle with struggle. It's good and bad. It's a yin and the yang, you know, it's a I love the word tension, you know, it's not an either or right, wrong, good, bad, whatever, but attention. And I love to produce things. I love to go and be busy and it has to I love waking up. I so revere waking up in the morning curious and inspired. I would always rather get up and go after the things to have a day to wake up and go, oh my gosh, I was just rather not even deal with the day, get out of bed, whatever. It greets me that people are in that place. And I'm actually in that with, you know, family members and I feel so privileged

to be interested and curious and inspired. And I want that for people. And again, I love driven people, but I do want peace. I do find myself more and more with myself and with other people when it's just drive, drive, drive. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's exhausting. Can we just chill out? And so I've got teachers.

I'm surrounding myself with people right now. I'm part of a, I've got a bunch of guys I'm involved with here in Colorado and now nationally, I call it my adventure groups, but it's guys, most of them are business owners for the most part. They've done well out there and work and stuff, but they're athletes. So there's kind of a qualifying aspect and we go out and do these great adventures together, but they're so good. One of the guys who leads it, just as big as the adventure is the tailgate afterwards. You almost feel like we just went out and annihilated ourselves for a day just so we

could come back by the river side and he puts out the Habachi grill and the beers and the whatever. And now we've kind of broken things down and all of a sudden some dudes talking about his marriage or he's talking about his kids or he's talking about something. He says, man, I never talked to anybody about this. You know, before and it's just a deep breath and it's just meh, it's just meh. Let's just be. The doing is awesome, but without the being, I don't see peace, I don't see fulfillment.

And I miss that a lot. So yeah, I've grown and I am growing and that my drive is changing, still drive, but not so much to the doing as to the being I'm just redirecting it. What do you think is still powerful about that group? I'm so curious about it. Is it the marriage of movement, athleticism, bonding, vulnerability, making time, making yourself a priority?

Like what is that magic solution there? That's a great question, because it's really interesting, Heather. So I've got a buddy who started it here. He actually lives in my little town up in the mountains, but he's a real influential guy and an athlete. You know, so he's at the board meeting and, you know, with his business

and the billions of dollars, whatever, but he'd rather be over here. The last trip we did, it sounds like it's supposed to be awesome. We went down a river on stand-up paddle boards, you know, and his business and the billions of dollars, whatever, but he'd rather be over here. The last trip we did, it sounds like it's supposed to be awesome. We went down a river on stand-up paddle boards, you know, and white water and stuff. And he's the one guy on this giant blow up unicorn. And you know, he just lives and loves life. And he's a master at being. But to go out there, it is with people.

And it's not even, I mean, again, most of them are business owners. A lot of them have done really well, you know, financially, but that's not all of it. That's not the qualifying thing. It is as an athlete. We have set that up. Like you got to be able to come out and not die. Whatever we're going to do, we're going to go surf, we're going to go mountain climb, we're going to go, what I think you're going to die, don't go on that one.

Like they do these crazy backcountry up in the Rockies here on skis. I'm just not that good of a skier. So it's kind of like Kevin, don't come because we don't want to have to helicopter you out. So fair enough, man. So there's a qualifying thing there. So we all come together and there's a kindred spirit aspect of that. But you're also there because you know, it's about something deeper. I just got invited to a national one. And that is the point. Let's come out. It's a stupid distance up in the mountains during one day. I think we're all going to die. But afterwards, they say it's going to break you down.

And the next day, we're going to talk. We're going to get together. We're going to talk at really levels of playing field. So you've got one guy here with a multi-billion dollar company. And this guy, you know, who's doing something he enjoys. I know one guy recently, he was just, gosh, he leads the police force. And something, some high level, you know, special forces

nuts stuff. But we're out here by the river together. We're all equal and it is so incredible. And you find people who are so hungry to come together. We don't do that. We're so isolated these days. So to come together with the Kindred spirits with some aligned values back to that, I think you find some aligned values. And it feeds a hunger that I'm seeing. Heather, I think you find some aligned values.

And it feeds a hunger that I'm seeing Heather, and I think you see it too, that people have, because we are more and more isolated than ever. So to find, it comes back to what you've talked about at a minute ago, finding that blue zone of people. And it's maybe one of the most empowering,

door opening, mind opening, things that we can do. It's unreal. If you know Fintech, you know the category is moving fast. And as your company continues to grow, Visa has innovative solutions that can help you scale and succeed. Need to integrate payments? The Visa Developer Platform gives you access to Visa's APIs designed to power any solution.

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And because I write a lot of everything comes from writing, I had been at the table twice with big literary agents about writing a book. Only to realize I'm just not driven enough to devote myself to that right now. And I didn't in this one, I realized pretty, pretty quickly, I wrote a page out to my kids, sent it to them. I started thinking about it more and I did a solo podcast, which at the time I never did solo podcast, but I just put it out there. And you know that you put podcasts out and it goes, oh, I love your podcast. They don't often respond to a specific episode. And I had a good amount of people go, ooh, that was it.

So I thought, this has traction. I want to do this. I care about this. It was them initially. But then to look at a demographic, you know the benefit of that. Look at your brand and know you're talking to. It was aspiring people. I'm not the best at, gosh, this is good business.

Know how that you know, but we'll say it for the sake of the audience. I'm not real good at awakening people to something necessarily. I'm good at helping direct, use the word of alignment, people who are already pursuing a certain direction. They're already interested or, you know, inspired people. I can help direct and elevate that enough. If there's nothing there, it's just not good. Nothing good at it. Now there are people that are and we need those people. But I was more thinking about the people kind of like me who had success in certain areas, felt like they're putting the same effort in others and not having that success.

And it's so frustrating and so disheartening. And I saw people burn out because of it. I saw them minimize themselves. I saw people quit. All right, see them just resigned. You know, I'm just going to burn it out till I retire and I can get out of this crap. And it doesn't make sense. If you're having success over here, you can have success in the other places, but you're out of alignment. So that's really who I had in mind. It's the people who have a success. But man, they're on the cusp of getting really frustrated and having some fallout or they're going to create more collateral damage over here. They're going to make the business work and go public and make a bunch of money and they're going to have catastrophe

behind that. Nobody wants that. We accept that culturally, but nobody wants that personally. Nobody says, okay, you can be number one, but you're going to lose all your relationships. I have not met somebody. I'm sure there is somebody, but I'm not with somebody who goes, yeah, that's cool. I'm good with that. Nobody that we do it, but we never agree to it. So that's why I had mine. Where can everyone find what drives you and where can they find you? The book, what drives you can find that anywhere, but most people tune into my show. So it's, yeah, self-helpful with Kevin Miller and you can find that anywhere, but most people tune into my show. So it's, yeah, self helpful with Kevin Miller and you can find it wherever and we put out four episodes a week. And again, it is unique.

And I'd say again, it's brilliant, but it's just what I wanted. So for me to learn well, I need more than one shot. So I need to read Heather's book. I need to study Heather's book. I need to take out the key points and they need to sit with Heather and go, all right, tell me more about that. Help me understand that. Oh, it's such a great point. We unpacked that a little bit go, all right, tell me more about that. Help me understand that.

Oh, it's such a great point. We unpack that a little bit more. And then I want to know about you. So that's part two is, you know, what do you value? What drives Heather? And then I talk about you with somebody else. I've been going to co-host for part three and have them listen to the show I did with you, you know, with my guests and say, okay, what bring out to you?

And we talk about it, it brings out another perspective. And then this is so great for me and I culminate it. So part four is me going, okay, what ring out to you? And we talk about it, it brings out another perspective. And then, and this is so great for me and I culminated. So part four is me going, okay, I literally go back through it all now. What stood out to me? What keeps repeating itself in my head? And I write that down and I may come out with, okay, the eight key lessons I learned

from Heather and her message. And so I'm having to think about them myself. And then I just kind of make bullet points. I sit here in front of the camera to only solo when I do. And I think, okay, so the thing she said about X, man, I'm grappling with that. I want to learn that. That's hard for me. And so I think through it myself, but time I'm done with that, I've learned a lot.

And then it comes up in the next show. Then I should do a show with Hala Tahan. I think, yeah, that's what Heather talked about in her book, overcome your villains. I keep chewing on my head. So there's the show self helpful. And that's why I love it. Because I'm sitting there. I almost want to change it to come join Kevin's therapy sessions. That'd be relevant too. Well, guys, listen, here's the thing. He want to be around good people. Kevin is a great person. You got to check out his show. Get the book, what drives you. I love the structure.

I love the format. And I love that he's literally taking the tips and tricks from the brightest minds out there directly from his show. Kevin, I'm so proud of you at the work you're doing. I'm so grateful for it all. Thank you so much for the work you do. Hey, thank you. I am grateful to be in a blue zone with you right now. You better get that blue zone guy on your show or I'm going to go get him for you. Let's do it. We both get him on our show. Okay, let's go after it. All right, done and done. Guys, until next week, figure out what drives you. Get the book, check out Kevin, and I'll be back here this episode so far.

I'm Jennifer Cohen, host the top ranking business and entrepreneur podcast, Habits and Hustle, apart the YAP media network, the number one business and self improvement podcast network. So most people live the life they get and not the life they want. And I'm here to change all that. My goal with each episode is to give you the habits and hustle tips you need to show up to your life better, bigger, and bolder. Tune in now, and I'll not only help you answer the questions like, what do you want most in life and why don't you have it, but we'll also help you make it a reality. I also pick the brains of top thought leaders on how they've gone to the top and the advice

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