Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - #426: The Secret To Breaking The Glass Ceiling & Claiming Your Spot In The C-suite with Lisa Lutoff-Perlo Bestselling Author, Speaker, & former CEO of Celebrity Cruises

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

The biggest stages in the world are waiting to welcome you. Are you ready to take the stage? Let me teach you how…. Join The Elite Mastermind with me! There are only 20 seats available. Link here: https://heathermonahan.com/the-elite-mastermind/ In This Episode You Will Learn About:  How you can become more resilient when unexpected challenges arrive Catapulting yourself forward despite criticism & pressure The benefits of a winding career path & embracing adaptability Assessing if you have the makings of a true leader  Resources: Website: lisalutoffperlo.com   Read Making Waves Instagram: @lutoffperlo LinkedIn & Twitter: @LisaLutoffPerlo Get the free, on-demand video training at circuitsalessystem.com/confidence Visit heathermonahan.com Reach out to me on Instagram & LinkedIn Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  Show Notes:  Have you ever felt like you were on a sinking ship? Lisa Lutoff-Perlo, bestselling author, speaker, & former CEO of Celebrity Cruises, knows how it feels to face overwhelming challenges and bounce BACK. She led the cruise industry during the pandemic, when business screeched to a halt and the media had nothing good to say. She has faced countless obstacles and relentless scrutiny. But she sees every setback as an opportunity to come back stronger and better than ever! Don’t let your challenges hold you back. If no one has done what you want to do, then YOU be the first!  If You Liked This Episode You Might Also Like These Episodes: #400: My Top Strategies To AMPLIFY Your Voice: Introducing Heather’s "Top Advisors" Interview With Scott MacGregor #370: Your Roadmap To Navigating CHANGE with Heather! #369: Dare To Be SEEN: The Ultimate Guide To Building Confidence & Creating Your Life with Jen Gottlieb Entrepreneur, International Speaker, Podcast Host, & Co-founder of Super Connector Media

You know, people look at people who achieve those types of things, right? Oh, she's president and CEO. Mine is not a sweet little book about how beautiful it all was and, you know, motherhood and apple pie. Mine is a book about, I started at the bottom. I made my way to the top. I encountered a lot of stuff along the way. I failed numerous times, but I made it. And if I can do it, you can do it.

Come on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals. overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close-up. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so glad you're back here with me this week. Okay, you are going to love our guest. Today we've got Lisa Lutov-Perlo,

vice chairman of external affairs at Royal Caribbean. She's a high-impact leader in the travel and hospitality industry whose vision and strategy not only propelled celebrity cruises to achieve transformational financial results as a brand within the Royal Caribbean cruise is limited portfolio, but also dramatically increase the number of women in leadership roles throughout the celebrity brand. Her passion for building extraordinary ships,

creating unique experiences and opening up the world through travel, has brought recognition and countless awards to her and celebrity cruises. Lisa and Celebrity have achieved global impact, earning her a reputation as a trailblazer, bring transformation, diversity, and inclusion into the travel and hospitality industry, and on to the bridges of ships. Lisa, thank you so much for, being here today. Thank you, Heather. It is an absolute pleasure and an honor. All right. So we were

introduced through someone we both love and adore Scott McGregor, always giving Scott shout out, Outlier Project. If you haven't checked it out, connected him on LinkedIn. He's literally the most connected and incredible human that we know. And he was raving and raving about you. And when he started telling me how impactful you were and how wonderful you were and that he lived in Miami, I said, I can't believe we haven't met yet. And then to find out you're originally from New England, we need to get into your backstory. I love a good underdog story, which I know ultimately you have being a woman rising through the rinks in corporate America.

Break it down for us. Let's start out at the beginning. How did you grow up and how did you end up as a CEO in the cruise line business? Well, first of all, how I ended up in the cruise line business is completely by accident. but you've kind of done the same thing, Heather. So, you know, as we were saying before we starting our recording, it's we're kind of peas in a pod, right, both from New England. I have so much family in the town that you're from.

And I grew up in a little fishing town, Gloucester, Massachusetts. I don't know if you've ever been there. But what I always find interesting and serendipitous about career that I ended up in is I'm from a little fishing town on the ocean. It's Gloucester, no matter where you go in Gloucester. you see the harbor where all the fishing boats are, or you're seeing the ocean where they all go out to sea. It's an Italian and Portuguese town. Everybody I grew up with, their dads, their brothers, their fathers, their uncles, their grandfathers, everyone.

Mostly men at that time changed a little bit since then. We're fishermen. And my family wasn't. We're not Italian and Portuguese. But my grandfather owned a market in Gloucester, Massachusetts. My parents owned coffee shops and restaurants. So I always find it serendipitous that at some point in time, as I'm a lot of time, I was, you know, trying to figure out what my future was and I was plundering with no real

purpose or career that I ended up in the cruise business, which is hospitality on the water, right? So, yeah, I combined those two great things that where my life and childhood started and ended up making a 39-year career out of them. You know, I started in the business by accident. I hate to date myself, but I was reading the Help Wanted section in the Boston Globe, and I found this job in the travel business, which ultimately landed me in the cruise business. For everyone listening, because I think so many people feel this way and might feel this way right now, that they're floundering. They haven't found their passion, their career. And I like how you teed it up, that you were floundering and kind of fell into this accidentally. That's exactly how I got into my

corporate America career was definitely not by some big design. But I feel like people put a lot of pressure on themselves, that they have to have this knowing it and this plan. How did you fall into it? And then how did you know it was the right place to stay? Well, first of all, I couldn't agree with you more that people put so much pressure on themselves to have a plan. Young people especially, you know, their life is program. They have so many things to do, so many activities after school. They have to do all these things to make this plan, to get into these schools, to study this, to know where they're going to go, you know what their path is. And that isn't, doesn't always have to be the way. You know, the chapter in my book,

Heather is not everyone has a plan. And people need to be okay not having that plan. I remember speaking at Penn State to women that were about to graduate. And there was a woman who was speaking before me, a highly accomplished woman. And she got up and she was talking to these women. I was second. There were only two of us. And she was talking to them about her plan and how she had her plan.

And she was maniacally focused on her plan. And she did everything to accomplish her plan. and oh by the way look I've done it and how wonderful and then I'm thinking I don't want to discredit her for having this plan because you know that's a wonderful thing that she did but my situation is completely different and so I tried to position it to the crowd that that was a wonderful way to accomplish what you want to accomplish but it's not the only way and you don't always have to have a plan and because I ended up accidentally in this business I started in sales I'm a salesperson by nature. It's part of my DNA. I was there for 17 years in our company, 17 of my 39, and I finally had a plan. I wanted to be the head of sales. And I was so proud of myself that after all these years, I finally had a plan. And then the senior vice president of sales and marketing decided I was a high potential person and should really go to a different part of the company because I had so much more to contribute. And one day, my boss, not him, but he sent my boss into my office to

tell me that they were moving me to marketing. And I was devastated, Heather. I'm like, I finally had a plan and now someone shattered it. And then what I learned was you need to be open, you need to be flexible, you need to be agile, you need to take some forks in the road. Because if you don't do that, you don't know where you might end up. And that might be somewhere you never dreamed you'd be able to go. And that's what ended up happening to me.

But those are all the lessons I learned, which I'm sharing and making waves, because I think they're so valuable. And it turned out really well for me, even though at the time I thought it was devastating and that my career was over. Oh, my gosh. There's been so many pivotal moments in my career. I felt that same way.

So for everyone listening, if you're in that moment, know that you have not been buried. You have been planted. You just don't know. You're a boom, people. That's right. Well said. So you just mentioned Making Waves.

I want to show the book. So this is Lisa's book, Making Waves. A woman's rise to the top using smarts, heart, and courage. I love that. What prompted you after this incredible career? I know that we're not in a situation right now where you're discussing what you're doing next, but you're doing major, big things and you've got so much going on. Why now would you write a book? Well, first of all, I decided to write the book six years ago. And I only decided to write the book probably six years after people kept telling me you need to write a book. You know, just like so many other things in my life and career, I never thought I'd be an author, a published author, and I never intended to write a book.

But every time someone asked me about my story or people in the company or outside of the company, how did you go from here to here? What did you do? What are all the things that happened to you? They would say, oh, my gosh, you have to write a book. So finally, these two women that worked with me in our company that were in our marketing and PR department finally convinced me to give it a shot. and they introduced me to a gentleman who helped, you know, put some thoughts into a proposal. And anyway, that was six years ago, lots of stops and starts. COVID hit. So that took two years out of my book writing. But here's the thing.

My whole life and my whole career and how I think about what's most important is to make a difference. Whether I was CEO making a difference for our company and our brand or CEO making a difference for all the people that worked with me every day and helping them fulfill their, dreams and career aspirations or to try to make a difference in the community, I've always wanted to make a difference. And people told me, if I wrote a book, it would make a difference. And so I'm hoping that people who read the book, that it makes a difference in their lives. And if they take one lesson or many lessons out of the 10 chapters that I wrote, then I will feel like I've made a difference in someone's life and maybe helped them or inspired

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free. It's so powerful for everyone listening to this that you're this high profile CEO, this massive multi-billion dollar brand and you say, I never could imagine

that I'd be a published author and I feel you on that. I remember the day Elvis Durant said to me, well, obviously you're writing a book and I remember thinking, that's not what I know, that's not my wheelhouse.

I know corporate. I know sales leadership. You know, I know my little arena that I'm in. So I'm with you in that sometimes no matter how successful you might look on the outside, to make a leap to something that seems very, very different can be scary. So it was for you really the feeling that you wanted to help other people.

That's what drove you to do it. Yeah, but also that courage part of smart smart and courage. It takes courage to write a book. First of all, it takes courage because you could be rejected. You know, I took the path of agent and publisher. And I remember, you know, I always used to try to look for the silver lining in the COVID-19 cloud when we were shut down for 15 months. And one of the silver linings in the COVID-19 cloud was before COVID, the woman who's my agent, she's wonderful, Jan Miller of Dupree Miller, you know, she couldn't get a publisher to pick up my book to save her life because people would look at it and be like, the cruise industry, who cares about the cruise industry, who even knows about the cruise industry?

Why would we publish a book about a woman or buy a woman who works in the cruise industry? And she would come to me and she'd say, Lisa, maybe we need to be. write like a three-page educational piece about how complex your industry is, how big your brand is, how big your job is so people understand who I'm talking to. And I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, now I have to write an educational piece in addition to trying to write this proposal and book. And then COVID happened and we shut down. And then I remember after COVID and we started up again, I get a call from Jan and she said, I think it's time to dust that book off and get that thing in proposal shape because whether it's good or bad, everyone knows about the cruise business now.

And so the silver lining was all the bad press that the cruise industry got during COVID, which was horrible. And you living in Miami know that very well. It helps me get my book published. It helped publishers sit up and pay attention and think, wow, if this woman is writing a book, she works in the cruise industry, she survived COVID. She must have an interesting book of leadership lessons to tell. And so I had my, you know, book picked up by a publisher right after we got out of COVID. And then, of course, you have to finish the manuscript and get it into market. And so, yeah, it was six years. But it took a lot of courage because the other part of it isn't just writing the book, Heather. And maybe you feel this way as well. It's like,

oh, my God, is anyone going to buy it? Is anyone going to care? Are all these copies of the book going to sit on the shelf? And you don't know. You don't know. Yeah, I'm with you. It is courageous. I'm proud of you. It's like it's such a legacy piece. I just, I think it's such a great thing that can be left forever and help generations to come. All right, let's take it back to COVID because, yes, I do live in Miami and was painfully aware of those cruise ships sitting out. They used to sit out in the main harbor and they had to move. I remember very, very well, and the bad PR. How did you keep a team together? How did you keep yourself together and that company together during that time. Well, you know, the good thing about the company is there were many of us,

right, on the executive committee that we're doing our best to keep the company going. But in my little world of celebrity and my brand, I had to keep 20,000 people going, spread out all over the world, who were either in their home countries wondering if we were ever going to get back in business again and if they were ever going to be able to provide for their families again. And that was a heavy burden because some days I wasn't sure we were either, and yet I could never let on in that way. And then we had these ships, to your point, just sitting off the coast, 15 ships for celebrity.

The industry had dozens, hundreds and hundreds, sitting off the coasts all over the world with the skeleton crew on them. And thinking of the psyche, of the people on the ships that had to keep the systems going so that when we started up again, the ships would be in good shape, but just sitting there, not doing what they love, not having a full complement of crew,

not having a full complement of guests and what that did to sort of their mental psyche. I remember Captain Kate McHugh, who she's a big part of my life, my career, my book. She was on Celebrity Edge at the time sitting off the Bahamas. And she was with a bunch of other ships from all these different cruise companies. And she decided, because this is just how she is, she started blowing her floor, and ships horn at five o'clock every day. And, you know, the ships all communicate with each other because, as you know, safety at sea,

they can all talk to each other. And she started this. And every day, all those ships at five o'clock would blow their horns in a sign of solidarity. And she called that hashtag hope floats. So that's how one of the ways we kept everybody motivated and hopeful. And then, of course, I needed to be visible. I needed to be present. I needed to dial up different attributes of leadership that were different than some of those

that I really flex during good times, like making a lot of money and driving people really hard. Now I had to motivate, inspire, and give people hope. And then the last thing I'll say is that I needed to refocus the team. I couldn't let us continue to wallow in our misery, not knowing when we're going to get back in business. And I didn't want to do what the rest of the industry was doing was just sitting around, waiting, and hoping and not being inspired and motivated. every day. So I focused us on a project. My mantra was, never let a good crisis go to waste,

because when have you ever had a 15-month pause to reevaluate things? And then our comeback is going to be stronger than our setback. And we started reimagining celebrity and how it was going to come out after COVID and be stronger in our marketing message and our brand positioning and some new and exciting things we could introduce as soon as we came out of the pandemic. And I'll tell you, Heather, it made a world of difference on how people felt every day. And that's how I got them through that horrible time. So there were so much negative press, and I'm not saying just about your brand,

I'm saying in general. I know, I know, yeah. Consumers, too, and you know this, and for everyone listening, we're hit with so many media messages. I don't even remember, to be honest with you, which brands were that didn't let this one come to port, that this one was sick,

and, you know, why did they open their doors so early? I don't even remember the brands. I saw it as an industry issue, which probably negatively impacted everybody. How do you handle with people? PR, like, do you get ahead of it? Do you jump on the negative stuff and address it? Or do you hold back and wait? Like, how do you make those decisions which can ruin a company or save a company? The problem in our industry is that no one knows brand. All they see is a big white ship and it could be

anybody. And they just, they paint our industry with a very broad brush. Every ship is the same. It's just a big white ship. So it didn't matter what brand it was. And we knew that and we knew we had to ride out that storm. And with the press, because it was so constant and because the time was so uncertain, we all knew it was a no-win situation for us and we just had to let it play out. The other thing I've realized over time about the press, because I've been in sales and marketing like you my whole life, is that usually things self-correct over time. And even if social media is negative, I love reading where these people will come in and inject sanity and, you know, call out people for certain things.

And then what I also saw at the end of COVID after the press had been so negative and really, you know, they were like sharp circling our industry. Even they were sick of the negative publicity and press and even they were looking for a positive story. And a funny story about when we all started back up, we did certain things in our company that cost us money but also got us ready to be first when the CDC said we could finally start up. And Celebrity Edge under the command of Captain Kate McHugh was the first ship to sail out of a U.S. port after the CDC gave us the green light to sail again. So Celebrity entered the

market first, which is a big, big, big deal. And I remember our head of PR came into the office. Now, our sister brand started three days after us, but we were first. And our head of PR came in after all this negative publicity and press and said to me, every press outlet on the planet wants to be on Celebrity Edge, all the talk shows, CNN, all the newspapers, USA Today, New York Times, you name it, they want Miami Herald, everybody wanted to be on. And she said, what do you want to do? Because our sister brand is saying absolutely no press. And so I looked at her and I knew what we had gone through and I knew what we had done to prepare for this day

and I knew our team and I trusted our team and I trusted Captain Kate and I trusted our crew and I looked at her and said what do you think? And she said it's totally up to you

and I said I remember the day and the words bring it on because I knew that took courage here we go back to courage again courage is the top of the list I remember

thinking, okay, this could go sideways. There's no doubt about that, but how can it be any worse than what it was? Number one. And number two, imagine if it goes well. And I knew the press was looking for a positive story. And I thought celebrity could lead the industry back. We would lead it back in an unbelievably successful way. And we would garner all the positive press finally. And we did. We got eight billion impressions, 90% positive sentiment. And the team performed miraculously. and the guests were so happy and excited to be back on board that even the press couldn't find anything negative to write about. It was great.

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slash confidence to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash confidence. What I hear in that, in my similar story, which is much tinier and nowhere near as big as what you went through. But when I got fired, I remember I posted,

I've just been fired. If I've ever done anything to help you, I need to hear from you now. So many people that loved me called me and said, take that post down. It looks really desperate. And I remember saying, no, I'm going to leave it up.

And people were saying, you're wrong, Heather. That post went viral and is what completely changed my business and life. So I'm so grateful I listen to myself. What I hear what you're saying similarly is you listen to your intuition, even though there were people out there

in your same family, you're saying, yes, and you listen to your voice, and that takes a tremendous amount of courage, but I feel like every time you dial up your voice, it pays off. I completely agree. And there are other stories in the book that talk about that. But that takes courage, Heather. That's what I'm talking about, right? It's like you just said it yourself, that takes courage.

Trust your instinct. And in the end, yeah, it's a risk. But think about the reward from it. our experiences are invaluable when we are confronted with those types of decisions. All the progress we have made, all of the obstacles we have overcome, all of the chances we have taken, all of the input we've been willing to receive. In these certain pivotal moments of our career, where we have these decisions to make, all of them serve us so well when we have to trust our instinct to make a decision

when other people are saying, are you crazy? Like people said to me, are you crazy? You're going to let all the press on the ship? And I'm like, yes, bring it on. And it's like, go ahead. Take your best shot. We have been through hell. We are prepared.

We have gone over and above compliance like we always do and always have. My team is proud and we're ready and I trust them. That's another thing. You have to trust. You have to trust yourself and you have to trust other people. The other takeaway that I'm getting that you're serving, up that I love is instead of looking it as what is the worst that can happen and focusing on that, switching it to what is the best upside that can happen and focusing on that. Do you do that often?

Always. I have been described as a relentless optimist. Sometimes at my own peril, I will admit, and oh, by the way, I'm married to a relentless pessimist. So I'm like practicing my relentless optimism daily. Yeah, no, I always think of, okay, you'd be foolhardy not to at least consider are the worst thing that could happen because that's not good either, especially when you're in a big public company and you've got the whole world watching. But to your point, then you pivot and say, okay, that's the worst that could happen. But what's the best that could happen? And then how do we accomplish that? And then you shift everyone's mindset because what I have found in my career, and you probably have as well, is people mostly won't do things because they're afraid. Fear is very

powerful. And I have always, you know, I took a picture of me beside Fearless Girl in the Financial District of New York because I tend to be fearless girl, not because I don't have any fear, but because I push it down and say, I can't let this control me because if I let fear control me, then I'm never going to accomplish anything. So I set it aside. It's healthy. I know it's there, but I just try to be fearless in what I do so that, you know, I win as best I can and my team and brands and people can win as best as they can as well. I'm with you. I choose to see fear as a green light that means go and go faster and a training and a discipline

and a process. But one of the things that I want to get into that is a glaring issue, obviously, is the laugh of C-suite executive female leadership, senior level leadership. And I'm asked about this all the time. The company that you were with in the position, you held so much bigger than what I reach, How did you personally ascend to that level? When I'm sure everyone in the world is telling you there's no chance that you can get there. How are you able to do that?

Well, you know, when you don't see people in those roles and you often wonder, can I get there? And one of the things that I realized in my trajectory of my career is that I never felt like my gender was an obstacle for the people making the decisions to give me certain opportunities that were ultimately going to get me there. but I did run into maybe skepticism, roadblocks, people that weren't sure I belonged there, people that didn't necessarily want me or help me to be successful. And so all of those things that I encountered on my journey after I was appointed to these opportunities, I actually had three different positions in our company where I was the first woman to ever hold those positions. As senior vice president of hotel operations for celebrity, as executive vice president of all

of operations, including Marine for Royal Caribbean, first time anyone ever did that. And then in the C-suite, first woman, and also first woman running any of our brands in our company. So on that trajectory, I ran into a lot of skeptics, a lot of roadblocks, a lot of obstacles, and I had to be successful in spite of those, because if I wasn't successful in these roles that I was appointed to where my gender didn't matter, if I didn't succeed, I never would have been able to continue that trajectory. And at that point in time in my career, that was important to me.

So I had to figure out how to, there's another chapter in my book, and it's called, Watch Me Prove You Wrong. And so every time someone told me, you know, you say fear is a green light for go, no is a green light for me. Every time you tell me no or I can't do something, it's my motivation to prove you wrong and that I can do it. And if you're going to try to tell me that you don't think I'm qualified because I didn't actually do your job, then I'm going to prove to you that, yes, I am qualified because

I might not have done your job and I respect that you know more than I do in that regard. You need to respect why I'm here and what value I bring. And then we can have this reciprocal beneficial relationship where we're each going to help each other win. And then I also realize that with these people that are skeptical because you've never done their job before, you've got to prove your credibility. I don't know if you encountered this, Heather, but you're almost proving yourself every interaction, every decision, everything that you do, someone's watching and judging. And that puts a lot of stress and pressure.

And so how I was successful at that is I asked for help. And a lot of times that goes to the smart part. So many people think if you ask for help, it's a sign of weakness. I think it's a sign of strength. And I think really smart people admit they're not the smartest person in the room on some things. And they fill in their gaps and they surround themselves with the smartest people. And so that's what I did. And I think that showing some of that vulnerability and admitting certain things, first of all,

disarms all those skeptics and asking for help, makes them invested in your success. That's how I found my way and navigated my way to the top. And the other thing I remember when I became president and CEO as the first woman, there was a tremendous amount of attention paid to me because I was a woman, not because I worked 30 years and earned it, but because I was the first woman to ever do it. So I remember being resentful and overwhelmed by all the attention. And then I thought, you know what? I'm going to ride this.

If they think it's such a big deal, I'm going to make it a big deal. And I'm going to bring other women along with me. And I remember thinking, you might be the first, Lisa, but you don't want to be the last. So don't screw this up. I remember thinking that. And that was a heavy burden. After my elation of getting the chair, I'd be careful what you wish for chapter. I remember thinking, okay, holy crap.

I have to do this well because there's a lot of eyes watching. And I don't want to let people down. There's going to be people that say, I don't know how she did that. I mean, it sounds exhausting and it is exhausting, right? That level of pressure where so many people would just throw their arms up and be like, I can't take this anymore. How do you move through those low moments? Well, you have to dig deep and it has to be in you, you know,

because I think a lot of people give up because they don't want to fight the fight. They don't want to deal with the crap that gets thrown your way. on any given day. And honestly, that happens if you're a man or a woman because this is hard work. These are no joke jobs. And it's easy to throw your arms up and give up. But I don't do that. I'm persistent. I'm resilient. I never give up. That's another lesson in my book. You can't give up. As soon as you give up or give in, they win. And why do you want them to win? Don't you want to win? Don't let them win. That's what I always said. So what I said to myself every day, don't let them win. Don't give up. Turn that no into a yes. Prove them wrong.

You know, that's what I said to myself. And those are the things that I realize are really hard for people, which, back to that other question you asked me, that's why I wrote the book because, you know, people look at people who achieve those types of things, right? Oh, she's president and CEO. Mine is not a sweet little book about how beautiful it all was and, you know, motherhood and apple pie. Mine is a book about, I started at the bottom.

I made my way to the top. I encountered a lot of stuff along the way. I've failed numerous times, but I made it. And if I can do it, you can do it. I love that message. You're so my people. All right, talk about failure at work and how you overcome that or use failure. We all encounter it.

And if we don't, then you're probably not going to be the best you can be. Because until you fail, you really don't learn enough lessons to help you be successful. Because the thing about good times is they don't teach you everything you need to know. to be able to deal with certain things, even like COVID. Whoever, you can never even plan for COVID. And so if you have a track record of losing sometimes, you don't want to lose all the time. That's like demoralizing and awful.

But if you don't try, then you won't accomplish great things. And sometimes trying comes along with failure. And I remember what I call my epic fail, the worst failure of my career, which is in my book, is when I was starting up a new brand. and I was also starting up my new operational career. And I, you know, all those skeptics that said,

why are you in charge, you really don't know about this? You know, they were kind of right. And I didn't know what I didn't know. And it was one of the reasons I had this epic fail. And in addition to me not knowing what I didn't know, which caused me to not ask the questions I needed to ask, was that I didn't have a strong team. I didn't know the questions to ask.

And I trusted people when I asked, certain questions, and they told me not to worry. When someone tells you not to worry, it's a big red flag. Not to worry, everything was going to be fine. They've got this. They know what they're doing. Well, guess what? They didn't. It was a mess. The ship wasn't ready. Equipment didn't work. We didn't have provisions on board. There were so many things not even delivered to the ship. Our systems on the pier weren't right, so our guests couldn't check in. Documentation couldn't be checked. And every other shoreside leader that was part of that project, at my level or above left the ship before the guest came on.

And I was the only one left on board. And I remember looking at the people on board, the operational people, that it was their job to stay. And the crew, oh my God, and we were in such a mess. And I just looked at them and said, I'm sorry, first of all. I took full responsibility whether some of these things were my fault or not. It didn't matter. We were just in a mess. And I just said, I promise you, I am not going to leave until we fix it.

this and I need your help. And they all looked at me and they said, let's get to work. And we did. We figured it out. You know, I stayed on that ship for seven weeks with everybody. And I probably gained more respect as a leader during that time than ever. And those people were with me for decades. And they were the people that I found that were like little diamonds that I didn't know were there before that I found because the worst in people comes out in the worst of times and the best of people comes out in the worst of times. And I was fortunate enough to be left on that ship where the best of people came out. And we all fixed it. We all fixed it together. We'll never forget it. It's a story we still relive when we're together. But it made me well respected and stronger leader.

And it also made me realize that the makeup of your team and the trust and passion and alignment you all need is critically important for any leader to be successful. And when you don't have that, you're never going to be successful. And I learned that the hard way. The best stories come from a place of weakness, not strength. So I absolutely love that story. What I'm hearing is you accepted full responsibility, which that's a leader's job to do.

And so many people want to point fingers. That is never the answer. So accepting full responsibility, apologizing was the next thing that you did, and then asking for their help as well as committing to stay in the weeds with them until all the weeds were pulled. seven weeks?

Seven, yeah, seven weeks. I didn't go home. Incredible. I mean, I have to imagine that's the first time that happened that at the senior level leader stayed. Perhaps for that long, certainly. I mean, I'm sure they stayed for a little while, but now I couldn't leave until we were really stable and that the team felt good because I didn't abandon ship.

It's almost like my career, right? I thought many times during COVID of calling it a day. I was certainly old enough to do that. I was beyond the age of our company where they say you can officially retire and all is good. And I was living through COVID. We had to shut down. I had worked so hard to get to the brand to the pinnacle of success, historic performance. And now I knew I had to start all over again, you know, chapter one sailing through the storm during COVID.

My sisters mean everything to me and I lost one of my sisters during COVID. I had this combination of professional and personal tragedy that was completely overwhelming. But maybe, you know, I felt the same way during that time as I did during my epic fail. I can't walk away now because I can't do that to other people. You know, they need me to get back. They need me to get back to health. They need me to get these ships all back. The crew needs me to get back to work.

So I couldn't abandon my team. I couldn't abandon my brand. I just couldn't do that. And then when the time was right, and we were back full steam ahead, chapter 10, and I knew the future was bright and bookings were strong and guests were coming back and the ships were full and we introduced the latest and greatest in our fleet. I knew that, you know, based on all I had done and all I had been through, that it was, you know, it was another courageous moment for me where I had to say, it's time. It's time to call it a career you have built and are leaving an amazing legacy. now see what else the universe has in store for you. Oh my gosh.

The universe has amazing things in store for you. And I can't wait to be here in Miami watching it happen. Do you have any regrets as you look back on your career? The only thing that I would say is a regret because I live my life in a way that I tell myself always, I never want to regret anything. You know, whether it's a conversation I have with someone, a family member that might really upset you one day. I'm never going to let that cause me to do or say something I might ever regret.

So I try not to look back on regret. But the one thing that I would say about myself that I learned is that it's disappointing to me that other people saw more in me than I did in my career, like that man that moved me from sales and marketing because he thought I had a lot of potential and wanted me to learn other things. And I went kicking and screaming. And I was very upset. And I felt like it derailed my career instead of looking at it as a really positive thing

that could actually help me gain a lot of experience that would get me further than I thought I could go. And when he and I have a conversation now, all these years later, he often asks me, and how did that work out for you? When I moved you, kicking and screaming, and we'd laugh about that story. But it was the first of many moves that got me to be president and CEO of celebrity. And without him doing that, I never would have gotten there. And that's why it's so important that people, like, you write the book and share these things so that, It's like what you said before.

If people haven't seen the movie, they don't know it's possible. But now for everyone listening, when you are in a situation at work and someone is encouraging you to diversify and change positions, there is upside there. And your success doesn't have to just be this one lane, which I definitely thought it had to be. Yours was a trajectory you never even could have imagined. Right. Again, I just hate to keep quoting this.

But what I say in the book, not all paths are linear. I have talked to so many people seeking career advice. And they tell me, you know, they've been there for five years and want to know how they become president and CEO. And I say, dude, it took me 30 years. So you're talking to the wrong person about, oh, I haven't done it in five years. And then I often tell them you should really move around. You should learn other aspects of our business.

You should, you know, build a comprehensive career so that when you finally get the opportunity to do this, then you're someone that's tapped because you're such a broad base of experience. But so many people, again, they have this linear way of thinking and they think, nope, I can only do this because that's what I want to be. And then I believe that's limiting to your career. And I also have found that not all people will do it, even though they want the advice, they don't want to take the advice because it's really hard to get out of your comfort zone. It takes courage. You have to learn something new. And human beings by nature are just not interested in doing that.

It's uncomfortable. Oh, it definitely is. until you start disciplining yourself that this is the new norm, being uncomfortable is actually a sign that you're growing. And now I'm scared if I'm not feeling uncomfortable once in a while, that really startles me because that means I'm not growing. So I just feel like it's such a reframe. Who did you write this book for? I wrote this book for anyone and everyone, men and women, who are thinking about what they want to do, thinking about navigating their career. It's a business. book above all else. I talk to so many men who read my book. They all have the pages, dog-eared.

Some people think it's a book for women. It is, but it's also a book for men. Anybody that is trying to navigate their career and are interested in starting at the bottom and going to the top and the lessons I learned in the hope that they take one or many and that they're helpful. I've had so many lovely notes for people who said that they were inspired, that it made them make a decision, it made them take a chance. And I really wrote the book for my nieces because that's, that's who my book is dedicated to. Sophia and Jillian. I don't have children.

And I know you do and I've seen amazing photos of you and your son. I think Dylan is his name? Yes. I don't have children, Heather. But my sister has been very generous with her children. And that's why Scott calls me Auntie, because I'm Auntie. And I wrote my opening letter in my book was to Sophia and Gillian from Auntie. I signed it Love Auntie.

And they are 25 and 23 years old. They are such amazing young women. I know they're going to make this world a better place which this world desperately needs. And I know they're going to have an amazing life and they're going to have amazing careers. And I always wanted to be a role model for them and someone they could look up to. And my hope by writing this book for them is that it helps them in some smaller big way as well. Well, for everyone listening right now, if you are confronted with change, if you don't know if you're on the right path, If you're wondering how to get to the top, but you need someone to show you the way.

Get this book, Making Ways. Lisa, where can everybody pick up making waves and follow you? Okay. Any local bookstore? I'm even in the Broward County Public Library because I was a featured author at the literary feast last weekend. And I was so excited. I was with all these like real authors. And somebody said, what are you talking about?

You're a real author. And I sometimes I can't think of myself in that way. But it's even in the library. if you live in Broward County, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, any local bookstore near you, you can pick up a copy of Making Waves, and you can visit my website, Lisa Lutoff-Perlo.com, and there's a link to order it there as well. Well, Lisa, I can't wait to see what you are doing next. We're going to have to have you back on the show when you're ready to announce the amazing

things that you have coming, and I want you to know we're going to be here cheering you on. Thank you, Heather. It has been such an absolute pleasure, and I look forward to meeting you in person. and someday very soon since we're neighbors. I can't wait for it. All right, guys, get the book, making waves, and start making your own waves. Until next week, keep creating your confidence.

You know I will be.