Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - #61: Cal Fussman: Leading With Certainty

Episode Date: June 30, 2020

Cal Fussman and host Heather Monahan talk about the power of leading with certainty and the maximization that can occur for others and therefore yourself when we act confident. Leveraging how you know you can help the world (key word is here: unapologetically KNOW) is how you can attain bigger results. Don’t play small. You are doing the world and yourself a disservice when you do. Lead with certainty and confidence and you will notice things start to change positively and powerfully.  About the Guest: Cal Fussman is someone who is always going someplace new.Young people wearing earbuds may only know of him through his podcast, Big Questions, which recently cracked the iTunes top 50 in its first week.People who recognize him in airports because of his Fedora are likely to have seen him speak at conferences and corporate events around the world over the last couple of years. Readers may know him for some time now as a New York Times best-selling author.Magazine lovers may recognize him as the writer who spent a week with Muhammad Ali for an Esquire Magazine cover story, and interviewed Mikhail Gorbachev, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Robert DeNiro and hundreds of others who’ve shaped the last half-century. Wine lovers will know him as the guy who became sommelier at Windows on the World at the top of the World Trade Center just before it was taken down on 9/11. Relatively few people got to see him as the dad on the practice football field every day from the time his son couldn’t kick an extra point through the day he won a game with a 40-yard field goal in the final moments to the day he could kick them from well beyond 50. Kids in the cul-de-sac saw him as the dad who cooked breakfast for the entire neighborhood on Sunday mornings and beamed when his toothless oldest daughter said with pride: “My dad makes pancakes from scrap!” A select few friends and relatives saw him enter Carnegie Hall to watch his youngest daughter perform with her choir.  His three kids see him as the man in the photo above his desk sparring with Julio Cesar Chavez when he was 87-0 with 75 knockouts and junior welterweight champion of the world. Finding Cal Fussman: Listen to his podcast Big Questions Email Cal directly HERE Visit his website: www.calfussman.com Twitter & Instagram: @calfussman To inquire about my coaching program opportunity visit https://mentorship.heathermonahan.com/ Review this podcast on Apple Podcast using this LINK and when you DM me the screen shot, I buy you my $299 video course as a thank you!  My book Confidence Creator is available now! get it right HERE If you are looking for more tips you can download my free E-book at my website and thank you! https://heathermonahan.com *If you'd like to ask a question and be featured during the wrap up segment of Creating Confidence, contact Heather Monahan directly through her website and don’t forget to subscribe to the mailing list so you don’t skip a beat to all things Confidence Creating! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, you're going to chase down our goals. We'll overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close to. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so excited that you're here with me. So this has been an interesting week for me. I'm launching my first ever.

Well, when you hear this, I'm already going to have done it. But for me, I'm recording this a couple days earlier. I'm usually a few days ahead of you, but right now I'm almost a week ahead of when you're hearing this. So I am conducting my first ever live workshop with a Harvard professor tomorrow for a group of people who have bought tickets to attend. I've never done anything like this before, right? And this all stemmed from the pandemic happening, speaking engagements canceled, revenue dropping. I launched this May mentoring program, which has evolved into me learning all about this online coaching, seminar, masterclass, mastermind business that if you're like me, I had no idea

was a business, much less it's multi-billions of dollars. And actually more and more people are moving learning online, as I believe everyone is right now, right? So it's just how can we repackage our value prop and bring it to market virtually? Sounds simple. However, it's not. So my mentoring program was kind of, that was easier. It's me coaching people one-on-one and then once a week as a group, which is, you know,

essentially what I did in corporate America. So that's easy. But this is different. Number one, because I've partnered with another person, right? So anytime you partner with somebody else, you're going to bring their strengths and talents, however, their uncertainty or questions or, you know, disagreements or whatever. The person I partnered with is a wonderful human being. I absolutely love John.

Amazing guy. So talented. But, you know, it's our first time working together in this capacity. We both want to deliver value. So it's taking up quite a bit of time. We've had some run-throughs. We've had a number of changes to the deck. We, you know, I've been in charge of the marketing end.

And I'll tell you, marketing right now, there's so many things to look at, right? So, yeah, I might have a career in sales and marketing, but everything is different now, number one. Number two, I don't have a team of people to hand things to. So you have to assess in your day, where can I walk away from a few different things and invest time and effort into this right now? Because that's what I need to do. I needed to really get behind. How am I going to market this? Who am I marketing it to? Who's the right fit? You know, can I get testimonials from him and I to share online? Can I target specific people? Are there people out there that could help me? Are there businesses I should be going after, which is sort of a new taking this instead of B to C, business.

to consumer, now taking it B2B, business to business is probably the better approach we're learning as we go. And I want you to know, everyone just needs to be learning right now. And that means sometimes failing and sometimes making mistakes. And yeah, I'm sitting here right now saying, gosh, I put a ton of time into this. The ROI will not be there for me and not for John on this one. But we did have a call today that now that we've figured it out or are figuring it out, it can become more of a low touch product. You know, we are more comfortable working together. it's part of the process, right? The journey. So we'll reevaluate after. And obviously, our goal be to extrapolate testimonial social proof because social proof drives new business, as well as one of

the ideas John had was maybe we ask on the call, guys, who here works for a company that they could connect us with that, you know, we could create or customize a specific class for you and for your team. So I think that's an interesting idea because businesses are looking for ways right now to support employees, invest employees, and help them decipher how to communicate during this very challenging time. And I see some people doing it successfully and some are not, right? And every advantage we can give to ourselves to our companies to business right now is a game changer. It's that small sliver of a difference that can make a huge impact. And I noticed this when I was running that someone was 10 seconds ahead of me. And I thought I can catch that person. But if you don't

speed up and do something different that 10 seconds after 10 laps has grown immensely and you are so far behind. And that's what we're seeing happening right now in business. And with innovation or lack of innovation, small changes are really impacting business and the ones that aren't changing are going to be left behind in the dust. So this is why I'm jumping into this seminar in this online virtual world. I've got to change. I've got to evolve my business. Some of it's going to go great and some of it's going to cost too much time and effort and money and not going to be worth it. But I'm only going to learn if I do it. So I'm in. That is since I got fired, that's my new thing. Step into fear. Fear. Fear is a green light that means go and we're going to make it work. So we did offer a money back guarantee,

which I think for everyone right now is really smart. We need people to trust us and feel safe with us. That is paramount. Those are the two factors everyone is interested. And how can I trust the other person and make sure I do trust them if I'm going to work with them, collaborate with them, or do anything with them, and make sure I'm safe and my family is safe. So we've got to answer those two questions first and foremost. Moneyback guarantee does that, right? And establishing some credibility with these people. So I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. No idea how it's going to go. I put quite a bit of time into it, hoping that it goes great. And if it doesn't, that we evolve it into something better and bigger from here. Just go bigger. I was reminded that.

today on a coaching call with one of my mentees, she was explaining to me that she's just having this epiphany that she hasn't been wanting to go bigger for fear she would hurt other people or intimidate them and that she's finally getting to this place of freedom where she realizes she's got to show up as the real her as big as that can be. Otherwise, she's not shining her light to bring brightness and positivity to others and that's an epic fail. So just go bigger, just take the chance. It really will pay off for you, but you've got to move through that fear moment, which I'm constantly doing. Okay, so one of the ways that I do that moving through the fear, I got frustrated a couple days ago. I wasn't selling enough tickets for this. And I

had set up my page on Shopify, which is pretty simplistic and straightforward. And I've got all the credibility in the world on there, my books on there, my testimonials. My partner is from Harvard. He's a Harvard teacher. He's got testimonials on there. We've got so much credibility and experience between us, however we weren't converting. So I look at the pricing. I look at the call to action. I look at the incentive. I look at the audience I'm communicating with. I tried a number of different things. Posting on social, obviously. Obviously. Right. That's the simple answer, which I did at frequency. And I didn't see a big conversion on that. So I thought, okay, if it's not working on social, I've got to look at email, right? And I don't like to overwhelm

the people in my email list because I send them one email a week. My goal is to add value to them and tell them a story that's going to inspire them and or give them a tactic or teaching they can apply to their life. So I don't want to lose them because I'm trying to push a product. That seems short-sighted to me. So I didn't want to send out just a standalone email on this and bombard them. I went to social media and I sent a bunch of DMs to people that I either have been a guest on their podcast and given up an hour out of my day to support them or whatever,

or done things to support other people. I reached out to a few people just to say, hey, if there's any chance you could help me or you have any ideas, how could I market this better? What am I missing? Give me some feedback because sometimes we're too close to something to see where it may be flawed. And it was so funny, I reached out to my friend Brandon and I said, I don't know what to do. I'm freaking out. I haven't sold enough tickets. And he wrote back to me, did you forget what my business is? And I had. And he owns a software a company that's a search engine that can pull contact information, email addresses included on anyone by job title, by industry, by company, I mean, by anything and everything. It's amazing.

It's called Seameless AI. This is not an ad, by the way. I'm just sharing with you the solution he presented me with. So he said, let me set you up with an account and set you up with a training, which, you know, of course took time. But I was able to pull 2,000 emails to people who are in sales or sales management positions and target them. And it's just one of those moments where you say, how much is out there that I don't know? How much have I even come in contact with that I've forgotten that I'm not applying to my business right now, which is overwhelming and why the goal is obviously to amass a team of experts in different arenas so that they can be focused on those things, understanding

what the best practices are and the most innovative products and services. I'm just lucky that my friend was willing to share that with me and set me up. So now I've got this account. I've got this ability to search for people based on their job and or industry and or company and then pull their email addresses in large fashion. I was able to reach 2,000 people in one email blast. And now here comes the work, right? You start looking at what copy are you using? What is the open rate? You know, what value are you providing inside? Are you allowing for opportunity to convert there? You know, are you speaking to that right? niche? Are you addressing their concerns, their pain points? Are you offering a solution? Is it a valuable

one? Do they feel comfortable with the price point? You know, there's so many things that we can go back and look at through analytics and try to understand and continue to evolve and improve. And I'm really leaning into looking more at my open rates and my emails, looking more at how much value I'm adding, getting feedback from people and seeing, am I getting people on subscribing as well as putting new funnels out there to drive people to sign up for my email list. And what I've found is a free ebook or a free accountability program, some type of free service that we're providing to others is a great call to action and or contesting, you know, works really well too. So, you know, this whole cycle, it just, it takes a lot of work. I'm going to be very candid with you. It takes a lot of work.

I'll let you know next week if it was worth it. I think that it will be. I think we're going to get some great feedback and strong testimonials. I will ask everyone to. give me a testimonial, of course, as you should always, should always be updating your testimonials and reviews on LinkedIn. You know, LinkedIn's interesting. I've gotten a couple of different prompts in the past week to, you know, test out if you want to add your services, which I did add. And that, you know, had people messaging me. So I continue to take advantage of any offer that LinkedIn gives me because I want my profile to populate for others. So the more views you get, the more people you get checking out your services, what you offer, and hopefully engaging with your content and then

potentially being converted into customers. So getting them in that pipeline and that funnel. So this week, my guest is actually a friend of mine. He is Cal Fussman, who is beyond famous because of his podcast, his journalistic work, his books, and the amazing storyteller that he is. And it's so funny to me that we get into his whole fear around selling, his whole, whole reframe that we needed to create. And I've been seeing that a lot lately with people, the importance of reframing. I was actually just working with one of my mentees on dropping, I think, from her repertoire. So let me show you what I mean by that. Instead of saying, I think that this is a good idea we move forward with saying this is a good idea we move forward

with. You make yourself a lot more powerful when you drop some of these filler words. So I'm to challenge you to do that this week. Stop saying, I'm sorry. Instead, thank people. Stop saying, I think, and start just owning what the statement is. Put yourself in a position of power and watch how people respond differently to you. I guarantee they will. Okay, hold tight. We're going to be right back with my friend, Cal Fussman. And yes, you're going to love him. Welcome back. I'm so excited for everyone to meet my good friend, Cal Fussman. He's an American journalist. and author, writer at large for Esquire magazine. And let me tell you a couple of people he's interviewed.

Mikhail Gorbachev, Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Jack Welch. I mean, the list goes on and on. And of course, the podcast hosts of Big Questions. Cal, thank you so much for being here with me. What a great introduction. Thank you. We are laughing because the first time we met was when you,

came to my house over a year ago and interviewed me for your fantastic podcast, big questions, and we sat down and had a very interesting conversation. The same view. I'm looking at you the same way. This time through Zoom. But this time you're actually closer. I think we're like 18 inches of I know, right? That's so funny. Well, we were connected through a mutual friend who's thought that we would hit it off, and we did. And what was so interesting, and you discussed this on your show, was that while we're polar opposites were actually so much alike, we've just come at business from opposite angles, me coming from the chief revenue officer position, you coming from the talent position, and both of us pivoting and becoming entrepreneurs and the challenges we

both had to face along the way. And you lifted me off. the ground. I felt like a rocket ship as I was leaping your home. And now we've had this virus and everything has changed. And I feel like I'm in the booster rocket phase here. And I need the fuel to go off into space and you are just the person to give it to me. I am here for you, my friend. Now tell me, I want you to share, because everybody else might not have heard this episode, which if you you haven't, you got to check out the big questions podcast. It's a great show and this was a really great episode. I've gotten so much feedback from people that gleaned some good sales tips from us. You were struggling at the time with pitching yourself, pitching yourself for business. It was a

role and a position you had never been in previously and you and I sat and tried to talk about some different ways that you could step into that. It worked so well as having my best year ever. And And really was poised. I was speaking for companies at conferences, going around the world, everything. It couldn't have gone better. And just as I was about to go off into the stratosphere, boom, Spirus hits. Every speaking gig canceled or postponed. And like you're suddenly looking around and what happened?

And where do I go from here? And I've come to realize I've got to go virtual. I've got to go through the computer, which was always one of my biggest fears. I'm getting better and better at it. Why are you afraid? Technology has always been something that from day one has just knocked me off balance. So the best way I have to describe it. When I first tried to get an email, I was on customer support for like four hours to just try and get an email.

And the poor person on the other end, like half of the day was spent working with me and he just doesn't get it. Like, what's wrong? Like, you've done everything you need to do and it's not working. And then we realized that I was putting like cal fussmen. I was spelling D-O-T. So you asked me why I'm a technophobe. It starts right there. All right.

We're going to solve some problems here. So number one, this is so interesting. I come from corporate America where I had a whole IT team and department, and they were a button away, right? So I would press a button and say, having technology problems, fix this, who's coming over? And people come running and they support you and take care of it. Now that I'm on my own, it's obviously very deep.

different, right? And I do understand the fear. However, in my coaching program, one of my mentees owns an IT company, a virtual IT company. I was venting to him, Cal, the other day. I said, Warren, I'm so frustrated right now. Something's wrong with my email. And I, Apple's not open because of the pandemic. And I really don't know what to do. And he said, hello, that's what I own a company that does that. I will have someone call you the minute we hang up. And so Cal, I'm going to connect you just so you have them on speed dial. They're amazing to work with. But my point is that there are so many solutions out there that sometimes we're not even aware of that we could just have a person on speed dial to use when we need them. That is where I have to go. And as a matter of

fact, the next place I move into, I am setting up like a Zoom studio so that I can communicate with all parts of the world. Because the reality is that once I started my podcast, I started to work this stuff pretty good. And I give people explanations how to do a podcast. And so it doesn't scare me anymore. It's just that every time something new pops up, that same old DOTCOM fear bubbles up in me.

So having that number, would be great. It's just great advice to have your help a quick touch away. Well, it gives you that confidence that if a problem's going to arise and I'm on with Mikhail Gorbachev or whoever amazing person you're interviewing, you don't want to drop that ball and lose that opportunity. And however, you know, one thing that you did for me today and a lot of people have been willing to do this, which is so fantastic, is everyone who's doing these Zoom meetings and interviews, they're recording on their own end, which is another great solution. I didn't even realize, and then emailing files over. So again, just going back to, there are always solutions out there.

It's about us just asking the questions as you do to find them. It's really simple when you know what you're doing. Isn't that the truth? See, that's the beauty of the last conversation we had, is you just gave me the basics. I don't know that I could have handled more. than the basics at that point. But the basics of Cal, you're going into hotels all the time. Next time you go in, and every time you go in, I want you to ask for an upgrade. And you remember, I'm like fighting with you. I can't do that.

What do you mean? I just get an upgrade. And I did. And I got an upgrade. Literally, literally you left my house. You went to your hotel. You asked for the upgraded hotel that you hadn't been to. They gave you the upgrade.

And since then, you've been getting upgraded. I've been upgraded ever since. And when I don't get it, I'm not upset. I get it. Which you warn me about. Don't take it personal. And you don't have to like twist anybody's arm behind your back. Just ask nicely.

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in minutes. Or you can also, you can ask, if someone says no, you can also say maybe you're not able to say yes to this. Is there another person that I could speak to that would have the opportunity to say yes? That's a nice follow-up question. I love that. And I love to look on your face when you said it. Well, you know what?

We really, this is so interesting. We really helped someone in need out with that conversation. I received a message to my website sharing that a gentleman that was in charge of a group of teens who were volunteering their time. They were out, it was either Habitat for Humanity. It was some great group that was helping underprivileged people. They were out somewhere in South Carolina, not in a big city.

And they were planning on camping. The weather took a bad turn. They had to quickly get to a hotel or some location, and they didn't know, you know, they had no idea where to go. They stumble upon a hotel. It was very expensive. And they had 30 people. and the gentleman had heard your podcast

and he walked up front and said, listen, I need to explain my situation. I know that you hold room back. I know that you have the opportunity to do some type of discounting. Let me explain while we're here. We're here to help others. We're here to make this community a better place.

Right now, I need you and your help. And they gave him all the rooms he needed at a 50% discount. Oh, the Heather way. Well, I was just happy that you know, you never know who you can touch with your message tips, you know, who you can help. So I was, I was so grateful for that. So you and I are both in this

pivoting moment where we're both really pressed to completely change our business, as is everyone listening, I'm sure, you know, the majority of people did not operate virtually before. What are some of the things that you've done or where are you getting stuck now? I don't think I'm stuck because I've done some chats virtually, and they've gone over very well. And I know two things. Number one, the way a company tells its story now is more important than ever. Because if you're not touching somebody or connecting with them, it's your story that's got to do the connecting. And so I know I can help people tell their story.

So there you have it. I should be in a great place because I have what people need. Number two, I have pivoted many, many, many times in my life. And I've talked to the icons who've shaped world history over the last 70 years and heard all about their pivots. So I'm actually a pretty good person to talk to about pivoting. And I have all the stories to make people think. So here I am. I have the material, but now I have to rebrand it or reframe it and let people know what I'm doing so that I can sell. Because I was getting to this point over the last year where basically everything was incoming. I wasn't even having to go out and hustle for leads. I was getting as much as I could do. And then all of a sudden, it just stops. So what would you say is the big move to make to let people know, okay, this is what I'm doing? If you need my help, I'm here.

But now also, I got to figure out pricing. It's a whole, I don't know how this works. I don't know if these companies have any money. And I've been told that even when you have companies with a lot of money, they don't know if in November or December the virus is going to come back with a fury. We're all going to be in the same place again. So everybody's kind of hoarding what they have to prepare for any eventuality. So I don't know.

I haven't been in these conversations. before. And I've got to figure pricing out as well. Okay, so this is such a good conversation. I love this conversation. First of all, you know, what we need to do is look at your opportunities. Obviously, your podcast is a massive audience for you to connect with. They trust you. Number one, they feel safe with you. That is your biggest, in my opinion, your biggest opportunity to market to and monetize to convert into business opportunity very quickly because you have a large audience. They trust you and they're safe with you, right? So that's a great start that most people I don't think have. Number two, we need to look at how can we repackage the opportunity that you have to drive potential

revenue for companies and or individuals, Cal? Because right now, a lot of people as senior leaders are struggling because they're not feeling good having to furlough people. They're not feeling good knowing how to lead in a crisis. You have information on how they can represent themselves to their employees and these people are millionaires. So they will pay 15,000 a month, 30,000 a month to have a weekly call one-on-one with you to help for you to advise them and help reshape their strategy moving forward. So I see two different opportunities there. Also, the engaging with employees right now doing virtual summits for companies. A lot of companies are reaching out right now. It might not be at the rate you were getting for your speaking engagements before, but you can still touch

hundreds of people on these Zoom calls and teach all of them the power of their story, why to tell it and how to tell it. So number one, I think you need to lead with certainty, right? So they absolutely need your services right now. And you not providing them, you're doing the world of disservice. Because the faster you can connect with these people and help them to tell their story, the better their business is going to go. The sooner their culture is going to improve. And the more positive people will feel about one. wanting to work with them and you'll bring that person more revenue, right? So we've got to have crystal clear certainty. It's not, I don't know if people want to work with me. I know people

need to work with me and the time is now. And when we come across with that confidence and certainty in our capabilities, our expertise of which you have vast expertise and knowledge that you can impart and help others, that comes clear through the Zoom call or phone call to someone else. So they say, wow, Cal's right. I really do need this. However, if we don't leave with that certainty, they kind of walk away from the call saying, well, it's something to think about. And then someone else follows up, you know, and takes that pool of money that you were just going for and may not deliver the same kind of results that you can. So I go back to it's our job to help and serve. And we've got to be

crystal clear in the certainty that we know we can deliver when we approach someone. It is interesting because I put out messaging on my podcast, letting people, know I'm going to pivot is what I'm going to do. And I got a lot of response, but it's generally been from individuals saying, can you help me? Do you do one-on-ones? And so I have to think that way. But again, what really gets me is I know people are hurting now. And so it's hard for me to go in and ask for a lot of money. I'm just not. I wasn't constructed that way. And I have to rewire my brain to think like that. This is what I'm worth. And this is the price. I'm sitting there thinking almost like a journalist. I wonder, are they on the edge? Are they just getting by? I don't want to take advantage of them.

So I'm looking at your eyes and they're saying, oh my God, I got it. Hal, you know what you need to do? You need to go read your testimonials, your reviews and recommendations of your work. Go back and look at that. Go back and look at the value you delivered to other people because somehow you're forgetting that right now. Yeah, I don't even think about it. I'm thinking about them.

But you're really not. And let me tell you why. If you were really thinking about serving them, you would focus on your, deliverables and how you can increase revenue for them once you teach them your teachings. Focus on that. You are doing them a disservice, not giving them the opportunity right now. Allow them to make the decision. But companies that are struggling that aren't telling the brand story, that aren't telling the founder's story that are disconnected from their audience, you can come in there and fix that for them. What is that worth? You're right. You're a million percent right. And what I,

What I've just taken from what you've put out in front of me is I really just have to look at this and feel bad if I am not going out and saying, let me help you. And being as assertive as I possibly can. You know, this is a strange thing that happened. And it comes from being a journalist. I know it because I was talking to a guy who's an agent now and who represents a lot of broadcasters and he makes gigantic deals. And I asked him, Steve, where did you get started? And he said, well, I delivered newspapers as a boy.

And it turned out we had both delivered newspapers for the same newspaper in Long Island. And he said, when you're delivering newspapers, you're knocking on doors. every Friday to collect your money. And they often have bonuses. If you can bring in the most new subscribers, you get a pair of roller skates. And he said, that's what I grew up in. And I realized, yeah, I lived in that world. But when I got to college and became a journalist, I was just separated from the business side by this code of ethics. that I was taught. And so I've been smashing down this wall now for a couple of years. And I thought I had got it to a place where I could easily walk over it. But I see that the virus has brought

out something in me that is like caring about them in a way that I would be caring about them more if I actually said, look, let me help you. Let me give you all these stories that have accumulated over the years and show you how the world's leaders have responded to situations like these and how they grew to greater heights. I need to think like that. And already you've already flipped the switch in my mind. Now, is there a way that once I, you've already flipped a switch in my mind? Now, is there, is there a way that once I, I let them know what I can do. And I also try and do it in a custom way, like a tailor, let me make this suit just for you.

So I go out of my way to give them the best. When it comes time to actually make the sale, close the deal, is there something that I need in my mind to just have that confidence that you're talking about and do it? And I know you're right because somebody I was dealing with when I gave them a price, they said to me, like, in their voice, their tone of voice was like, are you sure? Because, like, in their mind, they were anticipating that I was going to ask them for a lot more. Yikes.

Yikes. We don't like to leave money on the table. And, like, I've heard of that. Is there a way of it? of thinking to not leave money on the table? Well, you know, first of all, there's market research that we can do, right? So we know with keynote speeches, they start at $5,000 and they go to $500,000. So just being familiar with that how wide the gap is and what people are offering,

you can pretty much feel confident going in that whatever your number that you think is big, there are people offering the same services for much, much more. So know that you're not the highest price point. And I know that factually, you know, I had the opportunity to speak with a lot of different people across the country over the past year. Some of them were getting $150,000 on the same stage I was on and I was getting $15,000. So I've learned that lead with, you know, the higher price point. Here's a thing, Cal, you can always negotiate down, right? Say you go into a meeting and you're asking, you know, here's my virtual speaker fee. Let's take a look. One of the ways I like to close. is let's take a look at what dates work for you. You know, so you put the fee out there and then you ask for the date. And then they'll say to you, Cal, wow, that's a little bit more than what I had budgeted.

And that's when you say, great, great, what did you budget? What had you budgeted? And then they come back to you with a number. So when they come back to you with a number, and I just had this situation the other day, and I ended up actually walking from the deal because I had done my homework and I had spoken to another speaker

that had spoken for them the prior years. that woman had charged 30,000. During the pandemic, I'm on the call with this company, and they wanted me to speak virtually for them. And so I asked my friend, I said, what do you think of their fee is? It's pandemic. I said, I think 10's fair.

And she said, oh, yeah, I mean, for sure. I said, okay, great. I'm just going to do that to get it done. I want to get this closed. I'm on the phone with the woman. And I said, okay, so I've reduced my in-person speaker fee to my new virtual fee, which is now 10,000. And I'm actually adding on for every attendee.

I'm gifting them my video course so they have some follow-up work. They can do it home to advance themselves after the event as a bonus. What's the date? Let's get this thing on the book because I'm actually filling up with my virtual speaking right now. And she said, Heather, I have to be honest with you. That is way more money than we had anticipated. I said, you're kidding me. Now, remember, I have the knowledge of what they already paid, which that knowledge is always power.

And I wasn't going to back down. And she said, well, we assume we're getting speakers for free now that it's a pandemic. And I said, well, I'm sure you will get some speakers for free. However, for me to put the time and effort into what it would take to do this, I can go on LinkedIn and offer a seminar for a couple hundred dollars and make a lot more money than I would make with you. So when I evaluate my time, that's not worth my time. And I opted out. So they wanted you to do it for free.

Even though they previously were, you know, spending $30,000 plus for a keynote. See, that's not fair. And, yeah, I haven't been in that situation. I think the difference here is that as a speaker, I basically knew, okay, the range is like 15 or 20,000. That's what I was getting. So sometimes I was able to get more. And sometimes when people didn't have it, but I really like them. I'd do it for a little less.

But like I knew this range. I think now the big difference is I don't know. I don't know if people have the money, don't want to spend it or if they don't have the money, that's probably what's holding back a sense of confidence that you're looking for. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh, Quince has you covered with Lux Essentials that feel effort, and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing, and building a wardrobe that last.

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It sold out immediately, and I found out why. I didn't charge enough. So sometimes the only way you're going to find out is by stepping into it. So I stepped into it. I gave too much value for too little of a price. And I let everybody know on the team. I said at my team call at the end of the month. I said, guys, I want to let you all know.

The price has accelerated. And I'm pulling some of the offerings back. However, I'd still love to have all of you back. And I hope that you still will see the value. Half of the team re-signed up. A new five came in now at a higher rate. And so I was able to weed out the people that couldn't afford it, which was fine. But, you know, continue to increase my price.

And the next thing I learned, Cal, which has been really. interesting is there are different individuals that will pay differently, meaning you'll want to have a discount code for the people that you do want to help that you can see are really struggling and then you could offer them a discount privately. No one needs to know about that, right? Then there's other people that are going to come to you and say, Heather, I don't want the team part. I don't want, you know, the daily email. I just want the one-on-one. And what I've learned as I research their profiles on LinkedIn, those are typically CEOs. Those are typically, you know, lawyers at very large firms, those are people making a lot of money. And so that's when you jump on an

individual call with them. I want to jump on a call and understand your needs and what you're looking to accomplish in this relationship. They'll tell you, you know you can do it. And then you lay out a very specific, very different plan, which is much, much more money. So a lot of this is doing the research, which I'm accustomed to that and asking around. Because, I hear a lot of things. I hear that some of the companies are basically seeing, say, $2,000 to $3,000 as a range for their virtual talks. And this is just what I'm hearing from people.

And so I guess what you're telling me is just reduce the fee to say $10,000. And if somebody says, oh, my goodness, I couldn't possibly do that right now in our dilemma. And look, the sponsor to my podcast, all of their earnings, or most of it, like 90%, came from NBA games, came from concerts. I know what they're going through. And so my heart is with them and they are my sponsors and we're moving forward together. But I know how difficult it is for them. And this is where I guess my struggle is because I don't know how difficult it is for everybody. I mean, for instance, you can have a gym that has closed down and you're bringing in no money.

But if you sell pull-up bars that people are putting in there always, you're probably doing pretty good. It's like the people who sell yoga mats. They're probably doing great too. Yet at the yoga studios, they've been closed and not bringing anything in. So do you recommend that I actually look for those companies that I can see are doing well and reaching out to them? and do you recommend because I kind of got to a place where it was all incoming and I could relax from that.

But now I see that I have to go out and be a salesperson and generate lead and make either cold calls or warm the cold calls up is all new to me. But the beauty of talking to you is every time I talk to you, turn me into more. performance salesperson. That's my goal in life, Cal. The first thing that I would do if I was in your situation, you have an existing audience with the podcast, right? So we can always, this is your low-hanging fruit. It's right in front of you. You have their trust. They believe in you. They know you're a good person and you will deliver. Converting those on the podcast into clients is something you can do immediately next week when you launch your show. So my suggestion to you would be to create an offering for individuals, right?

Like you said, you've got people DMing you, messaging you after, and have it be one specific option. Don't give people a lot of options because they'll do nothing, right? People are in this uncertain time right now. You want to come with certainty. You want to have a solution to a problem. You want to elicit emotion out of them hitting on that fear, that pain point that they have.

Let them know, I've got the solution to this. You know, click the link in my bio to take you directly to the opportunity. There are limited seats available. I'd love to work with you in July and have a conversion mechanism set up so that they can sign up for your program, pay you immediately for your program, and you can get to work on coaching them. Okay. So now I need one of those credit card converters. Okay. So there's two options on this. There's a really easy one that doesn't look that good. And that's utilizing PayPal, where you just go in, you set up a PayPal account. So easy. And you just set, you send them an invoice from there. Once they click the link and say, Cal, I want to sign up, you just invoice them directly. They pay you. It goes right into your PayPal account. And then you can move your funds from your PayPal account to your bank account seamlessly. It doesn't cost anything. It's so easy. Then there's another upgraded opportunity, which is a Shopify account, which is what I have now. And that's where you basically have a landing page that someone would design for you. And I have someone that can do it for you. And it's a really beautiful looking page that has your offering on there. It's,

Picture it like your website, calpussman.com, with just the offering. It would be your little picture of you there with here's what you're getting. Click here to buy now. And then it all transpires and converts inside of Shopify. Shopify gives you all the data and analytics. You can see how many people visited on what days, who went into the cart, who abandoned cart, people set their emails up in there to get more info from you. So it's a really seamless solution that has been working great for me.

Oh, that sounds great. It sounds like they do everything for you. They do. And do they take like a percentage of the? Yes. But it's a small, for me, it's worth it. I don't know how to manage all that stuff on my own. That's a stuff I don't know how to do. So I was happy to pay them the percentage. For me, it's probably a hundred times more worth it because I'm pretty clueless at that stuff. But those are great suggestions. And so, you know, this actually leads to another area because if there are enough of these people that want to get together and I can bring them together in one place.

And then I'm understanding that I can actually separate people so that they can talk to one another. And so I can have them do exercises and then come back to me. I mean, I can do this with a lot of people. Yes. So here's what I'm going to do for you. This is what Dean Graziosi did for me a couple weeks ago. He gifted something to me. I am going to gift to you a seat Thursday if you can make it.

I partnered with a Harvard professor and we're giving a seminar on how to communicate in crisis and sell in crisis times because a lot of people feel the same way that you do that it's really scary to approach people right now and I don't feel comfortable. So we're going to have breakout sessions. on our Zoom room, you'll see how the whole thing will work and you'll learn specifically from the data the Harvard professors bringing. It's mind-blowing and I think you'll love it. So I'm going to add you to that event if you can make it. I'm in. Whatever I had canceled, whatever I had set up is canceled. This is what I need because not only are you going to give me the fuel,

but I think you're going to just show me the available text. And look, I've done this in person. It's not like we're reinventing the wheel here. It's just that now I know I should be looking at the green light on top of my computer so that it seems like I'm staring into your eyes. Because if I stare into your eyes, it looks like I'm looking a little down. I did not know that. After everything, you're passing on to me, Heather.

It's the list. I'm getting straight eye contact from you. Right now. Right now. Yes. And can you notice a difference if I'm looking in the green right now as opposed to looking at you now? Could you see a difference? Yeah, you can see a difference.

Okay. Well, that's why it's always good to go green. Fear is a green light that means go and go faster. That's my favorite saying when it comes to the color green. I always do what you say. I'll let you know how it works. But I realize I just have to jump into this and do it. It's going to work.

It's worked in person. So if there's a few technological glitches along the way, we'll easily figure them out. And, you know, my feeling is when we're talking about this a little in advance, I really feel like this is going to be the way of the future. I think it's going to be hard to go back to the old world. especially if this virus comes back with a fury in November and December, it's just going to change the world. And once we're used to talking like this, which is great. I love the idea of just being able to sit here and talk with you.

And when my time is up, then I can go talk with somebody else. I mean, you think about it, somebody invites you out for a cup of coffee. The time that I spent going to the coffee place, coming back, I could have been sitting down talking to you. So I just feel like we are in the beginning of a complete reconstruction. I think cities are going to be different. I think they're going to turn into parks. We're going to have cars that you don't drive, that just drive around and themselves, don't need any garages. The real estate value, when companies realize they don't need

the office space, that's going to go down and the cities are just going to become different. And I think what we're doing now is, as somebody said to me, it's not the future, it's the present. And that's, I'm feeling mighty present right now. Well, I'm so glad that you are present in here. And Cal, tell everybody where can they find you, where can they find your show? So the show is called Big Questions. That's the podcast. And anybody can reach me at Cal Fusman, C-A-L-F-S-S-M-A-N dot com. And send me an email. Go to contact, send me an email. And I will get right back to you. I've learned that from Heather. Cal, thank you so much. And I can't wait for you to join me on Thursday.

and everyone check out Cal's show. It's unbelievable. Literally the biggest and best guests in the world. Cal, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Heather. It's always great. I leave rejuvenated. I'm ready to do it. All right. Hang tight. We'll be right back. I hope you enjoyed meeting my friend Cal as much as I enjoyed getting to chat with him. Even though this time he wasn't in my home, we were over Zoom. It's so great to reconnect with a good friend. Okay, so I'm an interesting story to share with you that I'm really excited about. I interviewed, first all, I was introduced to a woman who's a doctor named Amy Morin, a really well-known therapist, author of 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do, which is such a great book. And I had her on my podcast months back. She's an amazing guest and has become an amazing friend when I was going to

give my first TEDx talk. I sent her my talk asking for feedback. And she gave me a me such positive feedback and then challenged me to do better on my intro, which I really appreciated, because not only was she supportive, but she also said, hey, I think you can do better here. And she was right. And I did. But I don't know that I would have done it if she hadn't had approached me in such a positive fashion and then give me direct constructive criticism and or feedback, which was super helpful. And she's just such a great person. So she and I text all the time. She lives in the Keys, not too far south from me. And during the pandemic, I've been. been checking on her because she's living on a boat. And anyhow, we're back and forth. And she sends me

a note maybe three weeks ago and says, can I talk to you for a few minutes? Yeah, of course. We get on the phone. And she says, Heather, I've been thinking about doing my own podcast. Mind you, she's been on the biggest podcast in the world. And her book is huge. And she's extremely successful. And she says, you know, I'm just wondering, people are telling me. And I love this because I heard this too. I should do a demo reel for my podcast and I should do a couple guest interviews and I should do some testing and, you know, all this BS that everybody will tell you. And I'm listening to her, listening to her. And she says, but I just, I don't know.

I mean, sounds like a lot of work and then you still don't know if you get it because there are different options with the podcast. You can just flip a switch and launch your own podcast, which I did for my girlfriend, Kelly, when I went to visit her in the summer. we just flipped a switch and started recording her and she was up and running. Or you can go to podcast companies and sell and pitch yourself and they can do, you know, the execution side. You do the speaking side and they do the support side. So I definitely have seen both sides of this and knew there was potential on either one. And I knew more importantly that when I wanted to launch my show,

I was being told the same stuff she was. Do this and test this. And here's the bottom line. No one's going to want to take a risk on you, but you. Even though this woman is this proven huge commodity right now, which I wasn't shocked by it just because I know there's trepidation and fear everywhere in business, especially now. So I said to her what she probably knew I was going to say to her, which you know I'm going to say. I said, listen, do you buy that? Do you think you're not going to give a great podcast? Because you've been on every major podcast in the world. You're sought after guests. People love you. Why wouldn't your podcast be great? You go on these other shows and they show up higher in the ranking than ever.

Come on. What do you think is going to happen when you turn that mic on and start interviewing people? You're a trained therapist. You're going to help other people. Isn't this worth doing? And she said, yeah, I really think it is. I said, well, then you shouldn't just maybe do it. You have to do it.

And people need you now, right? This is the time now. We're in a pandemic and people are struggling and there's anxiety and there's depression. And people need to hear from you. and consistently be able to rely on you and know you're going to be showing up each week for them. So I said, here's the thing. If you go out there and I would go out there with conviction and certainty to pitch myself to these companies and say, I'm going to be honest with you.

This show is coming out. I'd like it to be with you. However, if you're not in a position to launch the show, I will be launching it with someone else. You know, hit the marketplace and hit these individuals. It's a short list of companies. With that conversation and let them know with conviction, you are bringing this show to market it is happening. And she said, Heather, that is all I needed to hear. Thank you. I'm doing it. Okay. So that was maybe a month ago. I am so excited to tell you that tomorrow she is coming to

Miami. She's got a studio set up. And I am going to be one of her guests tomorrow on her new show. She's been interviewing a number of people from her boat in the Keys. And since Florida's a little bit opened up, that's a whole different conversation right now. But she's able to get a situation where we can be safe and record and socially distant tomorrow. So I am so excited to go support my friend who supported me by coming on my show. And I'm grateful to get the opportunity to go on her show. She's also launching a new book around supporting children and the 13 things mentally strong children don't do, which I will be bringing her back on my show for sure. And you will hear her again because I think it's really helpful to not only hear the things we can do for ourselves, but also for the people

around us. That's one of the biggest ways we build confidence is in helping others. And I was reminded by that just the other day. So I'm definitely going to bring her back on. I'm so excited to go on her show. But I also want to tell you, tomorrow is going to be the craziest day. And here's why. And these are the things people don't know that go on behind the scenes. I'll wake up first thing in the morning, get the house ready, you know, get my son ready, do breakfast. And then I'll, I jump down to do my social media. I do my morning email that I send out to my mentor. team. Then I will do a quick workout. Get ready. I'm going to do the Harvard Seminar. So that's a few hours. That's a three hour window right there. Then I'm going to run downstairs, jump in my car, drive 35 minutes

north of here to go meet my friend Amy and do this recording. Then I'm going to drive back here. That will probably be a couple of hours that I'm going to drive back here. And I had promised one of my mentoring team members from May that I would do his show. when he got it live. He's got alive. I'm super proud of him. And so I'm doing his show tomorrow as well. And then I'll do my mentoring individual calls after. So my days are so different now. They're definitely hectic, but I don't leave the house much, which I guess I'm really lucky to have that set up and situation. But I'll go back to it's because I created it. I pivoted my business. It's so different. There's a lot less interaction with me with other people, which I miss. You know, I have it in Zoom, which I'm not trying to cheapen that.

That still is valuable, but I do miss in person. So I'm super excited somewhere I get to see my good friend who I haven't seen in months, you know, in person. It's going to be really exciting. And it's so funny how things change that I get this excited about just getting to see somebody and be in the same room with them. Even if we can't hug, we can be near each other. And that seems worth celebrating. So I'm hoping you have something that you're looking forward to this week. I'm hoping that you have something that makes you feel really excited and that you're pushing yourself beyond your boundaries because tomorrow I know my girlfriend is and I am going to be cheering her on. Make sure you have people cheering you on because you deserve it. Okay, until next week, I'll be back here creating confidence.

I hope you're doing the same and I can't wait to see you then.