Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - Confidence Classic: The Secret to Deepening Your Relationships (Navigating Infidelity, Dating & Reconnection) with Kathryn Gordon

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Our relationships often are a reflection of who we are. Today, I’m joined by Kathryn Gordon, relationship expert and best-selling author, to unpack how we can take our relationships (romantic or platonic, professional or personal) to the next level. We dive into powerful communication tips to help you reconnect, open up, and feel loved & supported in each of your relationships, whatever they may look like. Kathryn also shares how to see the people in your life as teammates, not competition, and why we need to value our closest relationships if we want to shine as our best selves. In This Episode You Will Learn How to cultivate strong relationships through grit, honesty, and vulnerability. Ways to reconnect and communicate openly in any relationship. An action plan to reframe your spouse as your #1 teammate, not your competitor. Why we need to value the people in our lives if we want to value ourselves. How to set an example of communication for the next generation. One prayer that deepens the meaning of your relationships. Check Out Our Sponsors: Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/monahan Quince - Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good and last from Quince. Go to quince.com/confidence Timeline - Get 10% off your first Mitopure order at timeline.com/CONFIDENCE. Northwest Registered Agent - protect your privacy, build your brand and get your complete business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes! Visit https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/confidencefree Resources + Links Get your copy of Relationship Grit HERE Visit kathrynforreal.com Call my digital clone at 201-897-2553!  Visit heathermonahan.com Sign up for my mailing list: heathermonahan.com/mailing-list/  Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  If you haven't yet, get my first book Confidence Creator Follow Kathryn on Instagram Heather on Instagram & LinkedIn

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you're also bringing in all your past hurts, all your past experiences. You can make your relationship everything you always wanted it to be. It's vulnerability, communication. It's all the things we talk about. It's grit. Come on this journey with me. Each week when you join me,

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Gordon. She's a wife, a mother, businesswoman, movie producer, bestselling author of Relationship Grit, and host of the Catherine For Real Podcast. A graduate of Old Dominion University, Catherine became a top producer in sales for several companies before deciding to follow her passion as an actress and model. After the birth of her children, she focused on raising them and helping operate her husband's growing speaking and consulting business. That's an understatement. With her children off to college, she has returned for her second act investing in real estate and movies, mentoring woman, included your girl right here, supporting several charities, writing and speaking to audiences about the keys to a great relationship and loves,

sharing the truth on her podcast, Catherine for real. She's my girl. She's the best. Catherine, thanks for being here. Oh, Heather, I'm so glad to be here with you. You're so awesome. Oh, my gosh, right back at you. I'm so excited. So, all right. I want to just. right into this, guys. I have never talked about this on the podcast before. So this is going to be straight out of my comfort zone. That's why I needed Catherine to be here with me. So I very rarely talk about my personal life. I very rarely am excited about my personal life because frankly, I don't meet a lot of great guys. However, I was set up by an incredible person on a blind date and I was more nervous and caring about this date than ever that I ever remember in my life. And

Catherine was holding my hand through the whole process and helping me get so ready. And Catherine, the difference that you made for me and helped setting me up for success and that date up for success was something so powerful. I wanted to share it with my listeners. Yeah, I'm glad it was meant to be. I mean, we just happened to talk at that right time. And I'm like, Heather, have you read my book? You got to read my book.

Oh, my gosh. And guys, so many people will say that thing, oh, you should just read this book, read this book. this literally I dropped everything and went and read relationship grit immediately. It's such an easy read. I read it in, I think it was two hours, right? It's not hard to read. The format number one is super cool. And by way, this episode right now is for anyone that maybe you're going on a first date, maybe you're in a relationship, maybe you've been married for 50 years, Catherine, because I know you shared with me an older woman that really got some massive wisdom that shifted her relationship. This is for anyone that's in any type of,

romantic relationship, correct? But hold on. It's not just for that. I did my best relationship work when I wasn't in a relationship. So read the book and it'll help you in your next relationship. It'll help you, you know, do some of the things that you should have done or not do some things that you are doing. So no, I honestly, it's for anyone. It really is. Yeah, in a relationship or not. I think it's important. And a lot of the principles in our book are not just for intimate relationships. I mean, some of them can even apply to work relationships, relationships with your kids. So it's principles and practices on how to have a great relationship. Well, I'll tell you, I needed this book 20-something years ago because some of it, and I just want to jump

right in. First of all, at the back of the book, there's a Catherine shares 11 tips on, on how to have a great relationship, and then John does the same, you know, one from a male perspective, one from female, both super valuable and right to the point. And so I remember one of the things you said to me was don't forget to like drill down on those points, you know, before you go in there and keep them fresh in your mind. So to be funny, I brought them with me, you know, on the date. And so he and I were beating them together and like going through them. But what was interesting was, and this maybe you're going to be like, oh, gosh, Heather, no wonder why you never have successful relationships. Number four, don't compete. And I understand now, having read your book,

of course, don't compete with someone you're in relationship. However, my entire life in relationships, I competed. To me, again, I'm just, I'm not perfect. I'm far from it. I don't know why I did that. I thought it was funny. I thought it was fun. Like, I thought it was a game. Whatever it was, to me, I wanted to be the fastest. I wanted to be the one maybe that grabbed the build. Whatever stupid thing it was, I wanted to win. And because of these tips, because of this book and because of him and I discussing it that day, something came up. I forget what it was, something stupid about sports and immediately my mind went to, well, I'll win. I'll find a way to win. And he looked at me, he said, I thought Catherine said, we're not supposed to compete. We're on the same team. And it was

like that epiphany moment. And I said, you're right. Like, we're here to be on the same team, not to go against each other. And it really flipped something inside me. Yeah. You know, you're not alone, though. I meet couples all the time that are competing, you know, and it does cause a divide. You might have your partner who's in the gym working out, losing weight. Well, then, you know, the spouse doesn't like that. You know, and a lot of that boils down to what? They're insecurity.

Yeah, of course. They're insecurity. And a crazy thing happens. A wonderful thing happens. When you don't compete and you actually start cheering each other on, it's amazing. how you just, you kind of start to lift each other up. And that's the whole thing about being a team. Because when you're on a team, you're not competing with each other, right? It's so true. And it took me back to thinking back on sport teams that I've been on. I was never

trying to outdo someone that was next to me, right? I was trying. No, never. If they were on my team, I was there to like, high five them and encourage them and tell them to get back up and you could, it's a complete mindship that makes, it makes all the sense in the world once it was explain to me. However, no one had ever explained that simple change that I could make. And it was really powerful. You know, I think sometimes it's just we model what we know. You know, we might have seen our parents do it. You might have seen a friend do it. We only know what we know, right? And so you operate from that place. And so, yeah, I do think the tips that we have in this book will absolutely change someone's paradigm and the way they approach relationships.

It's so simple, guys, you have to dig into this. Okay, so give compliments was another one. And this is interesting, Catherine, because if you are early in a relationship, you don't want to seem like too much and like you're doting too much on someone versus maybe if you're in a relationship for a long time and you've fallen out of it. Now you're like, oh, what, I'm going to reintroduce that. I see on either spectrum how that could be a little challenging. I have a story about that.

And so John and I, I think our children were in middle school. John was traveling all the time. He was speaking all over the country. Everybody thought he was so great. I'm at home. The kids are fighting. I'm running them to sports all the time. It was a really stressful time for me.

So one particular day, John walks into the kitchen. The kids are running late for school. I'm trying to make lunches. I'm in a nightgown. My hair is disheveled. And he looked so handsome. And this feeling came over me, a feeling of jealousy, a feeling of insecurity. And I wanted to cut him down.

At that moment, I wanted to point out just one thing about him that would make him feel bad. And that's when it hit me like, uh-uh, just compliment him. And I turned around and I was like, John Gordon, you look so handsome in that suit. You better be careful. Those ladies are going to be chasing after you. And the funniest thing happened, he got this look on his face and this big smile. And I realized right then, not only did it make him feel good, but it kind of disarm me. It took away that feeling of jealousy.

And I realized like, you know what? I need to start complimenting him. And the more I did it, the easier it got. That's the other thing. You'll start to notice, the more you start doing these things, these principles and practices, you know, complimenting, reminding, you know, each other that you're on the same team. It gets easier and easier to do. It becomes, you know, a part of who you are. And who doesn't want to be giving of kindness and giving of praise of a person that you're,

that you're in a relationship with it makes all the sense in the world. But to your point earlier, if you haven't seen that modeled for you or those aren't the relationships you've been in, at first, making the transition, it does feel a little uncomfortable. How do you get people, to break through that uncomfortable moment. Well, I mean, I think you need to ask yourself the question. Do you love this person? Do you want to make the relationship work? And sometimes it boils down to, you know, we need to make sure we're also modeling good

relationships and behavior for our children. I mean, I talk about in the book, I mean, I came from an alcoholic family and it was a very volatile upbringing. I mean, my parents loved me dearly, but they were alcoholics. but I can tell you what, my boyfriends were all womanizing, you know, guys who were physically abusive. And, you know, that was what I learned. That was what I knew until I started to work on myself and realize that I needed to break this chain. And it's never too late. And that was a time before you met John, you were doing that work. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, by the time I met John,

And that's why I say, you know, I did a lot of my relationship work when I wasn't in a relationship. I got out of a very narcissistic, abusive guy, not physically, but definitely emotionally and spiritually and mentally. And so when I hit rock bottom with that relationship, is when I started to work on myself and started to uncover my own, you know, beliefs about relationships. And so that's how that, you know, it kind of transmuted into that. And I saw a therapist. And so I really worked on myself. By the time I met John, like I would have never even given John the time of day if I was still the person I was in my early 20s. I wanted to date the bad boy, good looking charismatic, you know, happened to be a womanizer. That wasn't what I wanted to do. But, you know,

that kind of guy. And so John, here he was this like good looking preppy, more wholesome guy. I wouldn't have given him the time of day. So, but I was able to see all the good qualities in him. And then as you read in the book, obviously we hit our rough patches because everybody has stuff. And so for us, you know, there was a lot of stress. We hit the ground running. We got married, had to start having babies right away. So being in a relationship and wanting it to be a healthy, loving relationship, you should always be working towards that. The other thing that I say in the book is, you know, your relationship should come first. And so many times it's your coworkers and your children and your friends, everybody else gets

the best of you. And then, you know, your partner gets what's left. No, it should be the other way around. You know, I think a lot of times that's not the case, right? For sure. because life just happens. That's how I felt like, right? Like all of a sudden, something big happens at work and you have to run off and handle it. Or like you said, the kids are going through a challenging time at school and they really need their mother present. It seems to make all the sense in the world as you and I are just sitting here having a conversation right now. But in those difficult moments, how do you remind yourself? I think it takes practice. And, you know, I think you have to have processes in your life, right? So one of the things that I highly recommend you do is have a family meeting. And when I say family meeting, it could just be you and your partner or, you know, if you have kids, sit them down too. But if it's you and your partner, say every Sunday you, and if you, you know, don't live in the same city and you're just starting out, have somebody, one of you come to the table, so to speak, on the call with something motivational or something, you know, a Bible verb, whatever it is,

something that is inspiring to you. Talk about that. Talk about what's going on for your week, what you have coming up. So it's about making the connection and the more you start to do that and start thinking about your partner in that way, it just becomes easier and easier. And think about it. With your partner, you just think, well, they should understand because, you know, they're closest to me, right? And so again, it's about changing that paradigm. And sometimes It takes work. It takes effort. It takes effort. So I suggest family meeting. Communication is number one. John has a quote where there's a void in communication negativity will fill it. How many times if you don't hear from someone or, you know, nothing said, you automatically fill your head with something negative. That's probably the furthest from the truth. Right. It's so it happens all the time.

Yes. Yes. So it's about making that commitment. And I don't care if you've been married five times. I don't care. You can always start, Heather, as I told you, I got an email from a woman. She was 85 years old. And I think her husband, she said, was 89. And she wrote me this email and said after reading my book, she didn't bite or, you know, snap. at Jerry. I guess her husband's name's Jerry. I didn't snap at Jerry like I normally do. And he noticed, you know, and I thought, oh my gosh, that is like a million dollar testimony. You know, like I love that. So it doesn't matter where you are in your relationship and it doesn't matter how old you are. You can start today. Make a change. Like the minute you start thinking something negative or, you know, you want to, you want to lash out. Think about it. Maybe come out with a compliment instead. If you're a different guest each week. If you're a last-minute shopper like me, you know the feeling.

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And one of the reasons I think that the book resonated so well is not only were you so vulnerable in sharing these difficult moments for you, but John also was to see both of you so incredibly raw. It was shocking for me at first when I was reading it. That was something that we talked a lot about because we knew what on the up happening. And the reason I wanted to write this book is I kept running into women at the grocery store for some reason. And they would share their story of, you know, they were split from their husband or, you know, they were leaving him. Just there was a lot of, a lot of that happening in my

community. And I found myself asking them the same questions over and over. Well, did you, did you talk to him about that? I mean, very basic questions, Heather. But see, that's what happens. life happens. And when you're in it, it was basic communication that wasn't happening. And the more I started to see this is when I realized I went home and I said, John, I really feel like we need to show people because let me tell you something. If John and I can stay together and have the type of relationship that we have now, which is amazing now, anybody can do it. I mean, anybody can do it because it was bad. I mean, we were definitely not connected. He was very stressed out with the businesses. I was stressed out with it. It was complete disconnect. And we were able to build our relationship

back, starting with a strong foundation, really starting that. With his story especially, because when we ended up writing this, John was already a bestselling author and speaker and people know him and knew him as the guy that was all about positivity and leadership. And then to read the story of him as this miserable, negative, mean guy was hard. It was funny. His brother read the manuscript before we sent it to the publisher. And he was like, John, you can't get this out there. And God bless my husband. He said, you know what? That's the reason that I need to get it out there. Because if I could come from the place of negativity that I was in, anybody can do this. anybody can improve their relationship. And so the book, as you've read, it goes back and forth. It's

John's side of the story and my side of the story. And we kind of go back and forth. And that was how we wrote the book. People always ask, like, how did you guys write it? He would sit down at the computer and type up his part. And then I'd sit down and kind of edit what he had wrote and add it. It worked. It flowed really well. Yeah, I've never read a book written the way that you wrote it. However, it's incredibly engaging because I can't wait to hear what the other one has to say in response to that event. Because to your point, of course, we're always going to see things differently. And there's going to be different sides to what was happening when he was on the road versus when you were at home or it impacts people differently. So it was always so

interesting and eye-opening and reflective for my own self to think about my own relationships in life and that there is always another perspective. And it can always at different times be a different person that's stepping in to maybe be the leader in that relationship or take the chance or be really vulnerable, which is what I saw a lot of in the book too. Let's remember when you get into a relationship, you're also bringing in all your past hurts, all your past experiences. But that's the good news. You really can still have a great relationship. You can make your relationship everything you always wanted it to be. But again, it's vulnerability. communication. It's all the things we talk about. It's grit. G-R-I-T. Yeah. And I can tell you what that means,

by the way. So the title of the book, Relationship, Grit, the G stands for God. And I can tell you personally that John really, really became the best husband when he started to work more on his relationship with God. And, you know, they say the strand of three cords is not easily broken. The chords on the cover of our book. So bringing God into your relationship. And then the R is resolve. You have to resolve to work on your relationship to stick it out. You know, so many times you, and I'm guilty of this. I've been in a relationship. I'm out. You know, just, you know, check out because it's not going the way I like it. Or a lot of it, I think, is it's ego, but it's really the fear of being hurt, right? Oh, for sure. Yep. So then you want to check.

out. No, because the grass is not always greener most of the time. I won't say always, but most the time. My caveat with that is this. If someone is being physically abusive or something like that, that's a different story. You know, I don't, you don't need to stay in the relationship. But if you're just having problems, money, whose job is it to do, you know, whatever that is, you can work it out. You really can if you love each other. Now, I will say that, you know, like when I was having problems with John, but he was, you know, and he was talking to me that way, I didn't want to really connect with him as much. But let me tell you, you know, when you change that, it changes your heart. And so a lot of that passion, like people will say,

we don't have passion anymore. Well, of course you don't, right? You're mad at each other or, you know, you're stressed. But it's really a wonderful thing when you can alleviate that and find ways to be a team, how much you have passion again. So I always say, like, before you throw in the towel, do these things first. So anyway, the next letter is I, which is invest, invest in your relationship. We're talking about this a little earlier. So many times we invest in our coworkers, we invest in our career, we invest in our children, who gets the last of that, our most significant person, you know, the person we love the most. So making them a priority, making them number one. And And then the last is together. And I know that sounds, of course, but no. There's no I and team, right? It's we. We are a team together. Do it together. And it doesn't always mean that it has to be 50-50. Sometimes I'm given 80% and John's given 20. Sometimes it's the other way around. But we're always working towards the same thing. So do it together. And that's the grit, GR-I-T.

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of mitopeer. Use my code, confidence at checkout, and receive 20% off today. Go to timeline.com slash confidence. That's t-I-M-E-L-I-N-E dot com slash confidence. I ask you to try to find your passion. You brought up earlier that our children are seeing us model these relationships. So for everyone listening right now, you know, if you do have kids, gosh, take the time to read this book. Take the time to apply these principles to your life and take a moment to think, are you leading a life and relationship that you want to pass and have your kids emulate? Because I don't think we think about that all the time when we're in the grind and running

through the day and getting stressed out and dropping the ball on things. if you take a moment to really ask yourself that question, is a relationship you're living in right now, one that you want your children to emulate? I think that that can be really powerful. Yeah, but modeling good relationships. And guess what? Like I said before, I didn't see that in my own family with my parents. And so that's what I stepped into. So it is very important. And you know what? It has taught our children because of the family meetings. It's taught our children how to communicate with others, just in general, with their friends, with their teachers. So there's a lot of things that go along with that.

There's a lot in our society and culture these days of kind of like just walk away from people. If there's a disagreement, we'll just leave it. There's other people, other partners out there. But to your point and the importance of communication in this book and teaching people how to treat you, it's about sitting down and having the difficult discussions so that you can work through them. That's exactly right. Yeah. And you'd be surprised. I mean, I hear stories and I'm thinking, wow, you've never let them know that. And then they go and they talk about it. They're like, oh, my goodness, it wasn't what I thought. So so many times it's not really what you think. So communication is key.

What is the feedback that you get most often from the book? The biggest thing is that you can create the relationship you want in the relationship. you're in now. You don't have to throw it all away. You really can make a difference. And one of the things that, you know, we say is make him your king and he'll make you his queen. And so again, it's about lifting each other up, being on the same team. And we do have a free action plan that comes with the book. And I can, I'll give you the link to that. You guys are welcome to have it. And what I love about the action plan is it gives you tools to use. And one of them is, ask your partner on a scale of one to 10, how well do I communicate? And then what would make it a 10? Right. So starting to work on those things. So I think one of the biggest things that I get, well, one of the biggest things that we do

get emails about is this saved our marriage. Wow. I love getting that kind of feedback. I mean, if you can get your partner, because sometimes, remember, there's been so much damage done in the way of, you know, maybe infidelity, maybe just in the way that they are talking to each other. But if you can really get to that point when you're really, you're willing to work on the relationship, this book can help you do it. Well, there's some of those breakthrough moments. One that really had a chord with me was when things were not great at all with you and John at this point in your marriage. John was on a flight. he starts speaking to an older gentleman who shares with him this idea of a relationship prayer, this prayer for you and your wife, and that John just starts saying it at night and

you are not responding. It did not look like it was going well. In my mind, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, like John probably should stop saying this. It's not working. It's not working. Because you don't know what's going to happen yet. And then when you turn the page to finally, you do start embracing this message. You do start saying this. This is something like you're starting to look forward to. That was such a beautiful moment because we were able to see the transition in real time happening for you. And it was so powerful. There's more to that actually. Give it to us. Yeah. Because, you know, earlier in our marriage when the kids were, well, I don't even know if my son was born yet, John had interest in someone in his office. So there was, it was still

cheating. He cheated. I mean, let's say what it is. I mean, it didn't end up being that they had sex. But it's the same thing. He was giving his heart to someone else or his attention. So this happened a couple times with a couple different people. Now, I didn't know any of this. You have to know. So fast forward, we're about 12 years into our relationship now. And this, this had happened the first couple years of our marriage. I started to, several of my friends were starting to go through divorce. And it was making me feel very insecure about our relationship. John was traveling all the time. So John, John, this is so typical John Gordon, by the way.

He has the worst timing. So we're on this walk, and I turn to him and I say, John, so-and-so's getting divorced. And I'm like, really, I was very upset. And he looks at me, Heather, and he goes, I have something to tell you. I was like, what? And he ends up telling me about these three different situations that he had been in. And, you know, I had always said if someone did that to me, because I watched my dad do that to my mom for years, that I was out. And I was trying to go out. I have a whole other story

about that, but I tried to actually get back at him. I was so hurt. And remember, he was telling me about what he had done years earlier. And I even said to him, why did you tell me now? And he said, Catherine, he had become a Christian. He, you know, was living this different life. but he goes, I just feel like it's something that's in between us and that I really just needed to share with you. Oh my gosh, Heather. I mean, I was ready to check out. And so that is the whole story behind that prayer because he was on a plane with this guy. I wouldn't talk to him. He left notes all around the house for me. I mean, this happened. And I got to say, he never gave up. And I'm glad he didn't because I was ready to sabotage my relationship. I was

trying to sabotage it, but he never, no matter how many times I drilled him. And this is what I'm going to say to you too. If there's been some infidelity in your relationship, you know, you do have to give your partner grace because they need that. They need to build that trust. And so it didn't matter. If I wanted to see his phone, he would give it to me. If I wanted to look at his email and I did all that. I mean, I really needed to see if this was still happening. So he meets this guy on the plane, tells him what he didn't even know. the guy, you know, tells him about this and the guy tells him to come up with the family prayer. So, yes, he would say this prayer every single day.

And Heather, I started to memorize the prayer, but I would not, I would refuse to say it. And he would try to grab my hand. I would not hold his hand. And then all the sudden, and this was months in, I'm just telling you, I grabbed his hand. And I said the prayer. And I want to cry just thinking about it. And I cried then. And that was the day I felt like my heart had turned, where I was, I was ready to forgive him.

And so to this day, that's our prayer. It's our family prayer, too. And I can tell you what it is. And it's God, we invite you into our marriage and family to love us, to heal us, to unite us. So we can grow strong together and serve you together and raise children that glorify and honor you. And that's our prayer. And I would say, you're welcome to take our prayer or, you know, come up with your own. But so that's why it does hold so much meaning in the idea that I would not say it for so long.

I wasn't saying it because, you know, of what he had done. But this is going to sound really weird. And I always have to be careful in the way I share this. But I know, on some level, I almost feel that that happened for a reason because it prepared us and strengthened our relationship for what was to come. And that was that John travels all over the country all the time. He is with women all the time, right? And so in a business setting, I just want to clarify that for us.

Yes, no, no, no, yes. But what it did for him was he is very, very clear on his boundaries. People will say, women, you know, hey, can we get together for coffee and talk about? He never does that. He will not do that. He will not go sit at the bar at a hotel to eat dinner. Yeah. So it really kind of set him up for some guidelines too that I think is just like another

layer of respect and protection, so to speak. That's a great reminder that those struggles in the moment are challenging to get through, but that real beauty and growth is on the other side. And like you said, that strength, you wouldn't have that piece that you have now on every trip that he's going on, you know all as well. And that's a beautiful feeling that you wouldn't have if you hadn't gone through that struggle. Yep. That's absolutely true.

But I really do believe that. You know, and it's kind of hard to say, especially when someone might be going through that moment. But I don't know. I kind of look back and I see it like that. Doctors are always so much easier to connect when we can look back. It's so impossible to do when you're in that moment. All right. But now I want to pivot and get to you.

I want to hear about your podcast. I want to hear about what you're talking on the show because we've got a lot of podcast listeners listening right now. And I know they want to hear what is happening when Catherine's getting so real. First of all, the podcast is called Catherine for real. And I have you, Heather Monaghan, to thank you were such a cheerleader to me and such a source of inspiration and really helped guide me on doing this when I started because I had no idea what I was doing. And so thank you for that. You were one of my very first guests. Oh my gosh. My pleasure. First of all, The pressure you put on yourself, your lineup of your first guest was, like, ridiculous.

It's like most people's largest guests. You've got like Damon, John. I mean, all these headliners, guys, seriously, you've got to check out her show. Incredible lineup. Thank you. And, you know, my show, it's Catherine for real. I really just try to have people on and ask the questions that people really want to know. I think I do sometimes ask questions that might make people uncomfortable, but I can guarantee

you somebody wanted to know something that I was asking and so along with the podcast I I've just started writing another book so excited for this I can't wait I can't tell you the title but it's going to be about the keys to great sex now when I say great sex I'm not talking about like this is not going to be that kind of book this is not a book about positions and no this is a book about intimacy and oneness. So it's been very interesting to write the book as I'm writing it because every once or while I'll start to, I can kind of see it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, but it's really beautiful to see how it doesn't have to be about that, even though, and this is the other thing I say. Like if, you know, I'm talking to somebody, I say almost everybody,

not everybody, because some were born through fertility treatments. But everybody is here. because somebody had sex, because two people had sex, right? So it's natural, it's normal. But again, like I said, it's not about the physical act of that. It's about intimacy. Well, I'm so here for it. I can't wait for your next book. I love the podcast, and I love this book, Relationship Brick, guys, check it out.

Get this book and get it for somebody that you love, someone who wants to uplevel their relationship. It works, and it works fast. It's such an easy read. It's so engaging. And the tips you guys bring to the table. are priceless. Catherine, thank you so much for the work you're doing and thank you so much for being here today. Well, thank you, Heather. And, you know, like I said, I'll be glad to offer the free

action plan. I think you can still get it at relationship gritbook.com, but I'll make sure I give you a link to be able to get that. And if anybody wants to reach me, I'm on Instagram at Catherine Gordon. And if there's something that you want to talk about or something you might need a little perspective on, I am not a therapist. I always say that. but I'll be glad to to at least talk to you about it and you can DM me at Catherine Borg. I do that on the daily.

I highly recommend that as well and she is my therapist. Catherine, you're the best, nothing but love for you. And we will talk soon. Thanks for being here. Love you.

Thank you, Heather. All right, guys, until next week, keep creating your confidence. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear, start learning and growing.

I'm on this journey will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it. I'm on this journey with me.