Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - How to Conquer Difficult Conversations with David Wood Episode 41

Episode Date: February 11, 2020

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Thank you for listening to this podcast one production available on Apple podcasts and podcast one Each week when you join me firecast one you are going to chase down our goals overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow I'm on this journey with me Hi, and welcome back. I'm so glad you're here. It's been a crazy week but some interesting things going on. For those of you who don't know, I was very successful in corporate America. I had a 20-year run in corporate America, an area that I used to believe was well lit and safe. Boy, was I wrong. You're never safe in corporate America. The reality is you are basically

entrusting that things won't change. Your boss won't change and your company won't be acquired. Well, the CEO I worked for for 14 years became ill. He elevated his daughter and she fired me immediately, which is what has started me down this new path two years ago. I wrote and self-published my first book, Confidence Creator. I got out, hit the ground, running, trying to promote that book and got picked up as a professional speaker. I then launched my online confidence course. I then launched my podcast that you're listening to right now. Thanks so much for listening. And it's been a wild ride since. I actually wrote my second book and I just finished my book proposal this morning.

And I'm so excited to go back to the agent that I had been working with a few months ago. I basically had been back and forth with an agent on my initial book proposal for the second book. She came back to me, wanted a bunch of changes and I was transitioning into my TEDx talk at that time beginning to prepare. And I remember just thinking I can't handle all of these things right now. I just jumped into the speaking business. I had just jumped into the podcast world and now I was jumping into the TED talk world and it was overwhelming. So I had to evaluate things and let something go.

And I decided to drop or to put to the side, the basically put to the side my book proposal. And I shelved it until I got a DM on social media from one of my followers saying, what's going on with the second book, Heather? And it was such a good kick that I needed. And I said, oh my gosh, I need to get this work done. Get back to this agent and get this going.

So I'm super excited, somebody prodded me. If you've got someone in your life prod them today because we need reminders and it was a welcomed kick that I'm really excited I got because today it's done. I am shipping it off to the agent. We are praying. We get good feedback. It's been a tremendous amount of work. And I wanted to share with you. It's so interesting that in I found this agent through cold calling. I researched the

biggest person that I see in the self-help personal development space currently, which is Rachel Hollis. And I googled her, I Googled her agent, I found her agent, her agent said that I wouldn't be the right fit for her, but she has a partner who leans more towards business. And that agent handed me to her partner, and her partner said, I could be a good fit, but I would have to rework something. So I now I've reworked these things. Now I have a little bit more time to focus on this and the TED Talk is done and now we are moving forward. So fingers crossed on that one, I will let you know,

I should hear back by next week, I hope. So hopefully I can let you know next week what's going on. One of the crazy things that I've learned being in corporate America, or I'm sorry, not being in corporate America, being on my own, not knowing what the path is and creating my own path, is that things don't happen as quickly as I would like.

In the olden days in corporate America, I knew how long I knew what the sales cycle was, I knew how long it would take to get to someone, I knew how long it would take to get the next promotion. It was sort of all played out and I could piece it together easily. Now that I'm on my own, I don't really know what's happening next.

I'm creating it. So sometimes the timelines get a little frustrating foggy and they don't happen soon enough. And I wanna share this with you because if you're frustrated like me, you just have to hang in there. And I share this all the time. 97% of people will give up and

they're going to go to work for the 3% that didn't. And that's true in anything, whether you're in your job trying to get promoted or you know, you're focused on doing something on the side, don't give up on it because you never know how close you are. And I have so many instances of this recently. So when I, a couple of episodes ago I interviewed Ed Mylett. I went out to Laguna Beach to his home to interview him. We were hanging out and talking after the show, which I always recommend go face to face on anything important. It is a game changer. So I got the chance to show my TED Talk. He said to me, listen, you're a really strong speaker. You need to be speaking more and getting paid more. So we were strategizing and

talking about how can we make that happen? He was super helpful. And he said, write this down. I want you to write down this platform. It's called Let's Engage. I'm on it. This thing is it's right up your alley, whether it's a lot of motivational, inspirational speaking opportunities. I think you need to be there. Well, I took a ton of notes that day and then I went to meetings after that and then I went on interviews after that and I was in LA for a few days and then I flew home and then I went to New York and you know, again, just a million things going on. Last week when I was organizing all of my notes, I saw that one note that I hadn't followed

up on and it's so key that we go back and review things. I miss things all the time. I'm sure you do too. So I'd like to take those, you know, a day, at least once a month to go through all my old emails, all my old notes and pull out anything that I could be missing and put it to the top of my to-do list. So I jumped on that, let's engage platform. I spoke to the founder. We had an amazing call. We just headed off and he happened to be going to see Edmai let the next day. So the timing was really good because then he was going to talk to Ed about me and you just never know what picking up the phone and jumping out there, putting yourself out there, what can happen. So they put me up on their platform. He happened to meet with Ed, got good feedback, and now he's saying, hey, I think that I want

to run some ads for you, which I didn't even know people do. I didn't know my speaker, Bureau's, haven't done that currently, but apparently some do. So again, there's so much out there that we don't know is possible. I only thought speakers promoted themselves. I didn't or ran ads for themselves. I didn't know companies did that. So I'm learning as I go, cut to a year ago I was introduced to the president of one of the largest speaking bureaus in the country. And he was not interested in picking me up at that time because they were more into political was their niche and something else. But it wasn't really business and they didn't feel he didn't feel I was the right fit at the time. Since then we forged a

friendship over the last year and out of the blue he sends me a note this week saying, Hey, I was in California. I met the speaker agency that really, you know, works with Brane Brown, works with a bunch of female business speakers, inspirational motivational speakers, and I feel like how there You could be an ideal fit for them because Brane Brown is booked for the next year solid already Why wouldn't you know you work with them and when they get requests for her? They could hand them to you instead creating a new revenue stream for the agency Creating additional revenue stream for me. He said it just really aligns well

So what's interesting and I took from that is while he might not have been the right fit for me The fact that I constantly follow up with him I go to meet with him and we've become friends as a result of our initial meeting Even though we weren't the right fit is now turning into a new opportunity for me. So, you know, sometimes we might think, oh, I don't want to go to this meeting or I don't need to go or who knows what will come out of it. I have built everything in my life off of that idea that I will go, I will show up, I will follow through. And yes, sometimes nothing happens. You know, I've been working back and forth with Kim Gravel on a clothing line concept for HSN now for months.

And it was funny. I always feel like I'm driving that woman crazy because I'm texting her all the time. I'm shooting her emails. I'm commenting on her social media. Hint, hint. That is the best way to get a hold of somebody and get their attention. And so I'm always trying to support her,

but stay top of mind with her because we have, we've created an amazing, beautiful deck and pitch. And on social media the other day, someone commented, Heather, I wish you had a clothing line because I would buy it. And I said, oh my gosh, had there I wish you had a clothing line because I would buy it and I said, oh my gosh, yes, I'm working on it and I

jumped right on Kim's text thread and said, is there any way we can talk? And she called me right back. So not giving up is critical and you might think you're annoying someone but trying to do it in a positive and supportive way is important. It turns out she had her own things going on.

She'd been super busy over the holidays and she felt now was a good time to reengage. So she gave me some constructive feedback. I'm redoing the deck and I told her, I'll have it back to her by Monday. So that's another potential that's out there. I always believe in the octopus strategy for revenue that we have to have multiple streams going all the time so that if one stream falls down for any reason we're going to be fine and we have a bridge to

replace it. Okay, so this week I got the opportunity to speak for a university in Miami law school which is funny because for years I had lawyers on a pedestal. You know, they had more schooling than me. They were more academic than me. But what I've learned is most lawyers struggle with sales. Most of them don't even understand their end sales. But a big part of most attorneys' jobs is to bring new business in. Let me decode that for you. That is sales 101.

So what I've discovered is sales is really my expertise. That's my background. Everything I did was sales and sales leadership in corporate America for 20 years. And what I've learned being an entrepreneur and author, a speaker is in a podcast host is everyone's in sales. I had to sell my book. I have to sell people to come on my podcast as a guest. I have to sell myself for speaking engagements. Attorneys have to sell my book. I have to sell people to come on my podcast as a guest. I have to sell myself for speaking engagements. Attorneys have to sell themselves and their firms to clients to bring them in and bring a new business.

And so now it's when I go and speak to law students or attorneys, I feel really confident in my ability to help them, to teach them, and to share how to sell, how to overcome adversity, how to be the best version themselves, how to be the most confident attorney they can be. And it's really exciting where it used to be really scary for me. The first time I spoke for an attorney office was a year and a half ago. And I remember being really, really nervous, cut to this past week where I went and really excited. I didn't even have to prepare because I know the key points that they needed to take

away, which really focused around sales, of course, around creating confidence as well. But I now go into a situation feeling really confident in who I am and my abilities and the value that I can bring to them. So it's really important that we celebrate what our strengths are and distill it down as simplistically as possible to make sure that we connect with the audience, which I did and felt really good about that talk that I gave. And actually one of the questions that I got after the talk was how do we get hired? These are law school students and they're not out in the real world yet. So, you know, that was another opportunity to convey to them that we're living

in the best time ever where we can connect with people on social media. We can research everything and anything about someone online. And if we're willing to do our due diligence, do our homework, whether you're trying to land Gary Vaynerchuk as a guest on your show, or you're trying to get hired by the biggest law firm in the country, you can find anything and everything out about someone who they're connected to, you can find points of connection for you in that person, you can figure out how you can add value to them, solve their problems and make it really turn key. So it was such, it was such a great opportunity for me to see how I could add value and learn from them on what their struggles and challenges were, which was really, really interesting. Do you remember when you started your small business? I remember it was two years ago. It was no small feat. It took a lot of late nights, early mornings, and the

occasional all-nighter bottom line. you've been insanely busy ever since, true that. So why not make things a little easier? Well, our friends at FreshBooks have the solution. FreshBooks, invoicing and accounting software, is designed specifically for small business owners. It's simple, intuitive, and keeps you way more organized than a dusty shoebox filled with crumpled receipts. Create and send professional looking invoices in 30 seconds and then get them paid two times faster with automated online payments. File expenses even quicker and keep them perfectly organized for tax time. And the best part, fresh books grows alongside your business so you'll always have the tools you

need when you need them without ever having to learn the ins and outs of accounting. Who wants to do that? Join the 24 million people who've used fresh books, try it for free. For 30 days, no catch and no credit card required. Go to freshbooks.com, slash confidence, and enter creating confidence in the, how did you hear about us section? Get started now. Okay, so another pretty cool thing happened during the Super Bowl, a friend of mine from New York, had got me invited to a party and he said, listen, I know a lot of people that are gonna be there want you to go, so of course I went. And at this party, I met a lot of different people, went up and introduced myself to people,

and some people had recognized me and came up to introduce themselves. So it was this great networking opportunity, even though the traffic was insane, complete nightmare, but whatever, it was worth it. So I brought one of my girlfriends along as a wing woman, we had a great time, met a lot of people. One of the people that I met or got reintroduced to is someone that had reached out to me on LinkedIn. Gosh, must have been six years ago back when I was in corporate America He was running a number of different businesses. He's an investor and he wanted some help around sales and marketing

He'd sent me a note and said do you consult on the side which I didn't I said no I don't however your office is right down the street for me I'll come and meet with you. Let's see if I can Help you out a little bit. So I took, you know, an hour out of my day, one random day six years ago, met with them, gave them a little bit of advice, and that was it.

And moved on, forgot about it. Well, he happened to be at this party, randomly, do good and good, always comes back to you. And he came up to me and reintroduced himself. He's still following me on LinkedIn, which if you don't, please follow me on LinkedIn. I definitely put up a lot of great content there. He reintroduces himself to me. He's now left that company he was formerly with. He's doing something different now and he also happens to be on the board of YPO. Now YPO is a group that hires professional speakers

in every state across the country, nearly every month. I mean, it's a huge opportunity to break into one that it's on my target list of speaking opportunities I want to break into because they pay so much for speakers. They're very highly regarded. And they're so just breaking into that one entity would reveal an opportunity of hundreds of speaking opportunities for me. You know, there's so many different ways to approach the speaking business. You know, do you go through agencies, through speaker bureaus, or do you target specific companies that just hire a lot on their own?

This would be that type of an opportunity. So you need to get one YPO speaking engagement to create a ripple effect of your reputation so that people start reviewing and recommending you within that organization. It's a really smart, efficient strategy. Wouldn't you know, he comes up to me and says, Hey, I'm on the board of YPO. You helped me out years ago. I've been seeing that your speaking business is taking off. I'd love to invite you to a YPO meeting so that the entire board can see you speak. I believe that once you speak once for YPO, you'll be getting speaking engagements across the country. So yes, he did follow up with me this week. I'm so glad my friend invited me to

that party, which neither one of these two are connected, but it was the fact that someone got me the invite. I chose to show up and give it a chance, and then I had done something nice for someone years ago, and it just resurfaced for me. So I'm really excited. And yes, I'm going to go to this YPO retreat where I know nobody, and I'm going to speak for them with, you know, the return on this investment being that it could be worth literally millions of dollars if things go well. And I'm sure they will. I'm going to go in with a great attitude. I'm going to lead with taking a chance on me and going all in, which I hope you are doing too. Do you own a rent your home? Sure you do. Just like me.

And I bet it can be hard work because it really is. You know what's easy bundling policies with Geico. Geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowners or renters insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too, because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to Geico.com, get a quote and see how much you could save. It's Geico easy, visit geico.com today. That's geico.com. Okay, so enough about me. We need to get to my amazing guest. And if you have ever

thought about the challenge of having a difficult conversation, my next guest is going to help you get around it. And let's be honest, who hasn't, who hasn't dealt with difficult conversations or has an avoided difficult conversations. Now is the day and time to step into it. Hain type will be welcome back. I'm so excited for you to meet my guest David Wood after life as a consulting actuary to Fortune 100 companies. David built the world's largest coaching business becoming number one on Google for life coaching. Very impressive. He believes tough conversations we avoid are our doorways to confidence, success, and even love in

both work and life. David coaches high performing confidence, success, and even love in both work and life. David coaches high performing entrepreneurs, executives, and teams, and even prison inmates to amazing results in connection, one conversation at a time. Thanks for being here, David. Thanks for having me, hello. I'm so excited. I have so many tough conversations in my life, and so I'm so interested in learning more. Can you share a little bit of background on your very interesting life with our listeners? Sure. I was very left-brained. That's how I grew up. I didn't realize that I shut down my emotions as a kid.

And I wasn't very good at being relational with people, but I got good at creating results and systems and numbers. So that was my career as a consulting actuary, which is basically advising big multinationals on their risk profiles and uncertainty and how to manage that. And then I discovered personal growth. Woohoo. And I was very cynical. I was very cynical. Like, they were all wearing name tags and they're all smiling too much. And I figured they're just, it's some scam to get weak, wild people out of their money.

Well, sometimes I think that is the case, but okay. Maybe. But they cracked my cynicism open. I found that their heart was really in it and they cracked me open. And I got a taste of coaching in the course. I couldn't help myself if someone was stuck. I'd ask them a question that would help them get unstuck.

And I'm like, this is really good. And then someone had a business card. This is back in 1997. Someone had a business card that said coach and I'm like, you can, you can get paid for this. So at the end of 98, I finally decided to, I quit my job already. I'd gone back to Australia and I was an entertainer. I was basically a one-man band for pubs and parties. I was just taking a sabbatical and then I decided to print off my own business cards and see what happened if I started coaching and training.

And that was 20 years ago, the rest is history. So what was so special or unique about what you were doing that brought you that level of success? You mean the level of success where I was number one on on Google for life coaching and 150,000 email addresses? Wow. Well, one thing I think that helped a lot was my affinity for systems. I'm a geek and I love programming. So when I see and a business is basically a bunch of systems. So when I wanted to get ranked on the search engines, I went and Googled how to do it and went and tried it. And this was back before anyone was doing SEO for life coaching. I go as number one,

four and seven on some of the major search engines, people were complaining. So I think it was my nerdiness that really helped me set up the systems. and another thing that was useful is I tend to go for it. I may not be sure that I'm going to be successful, but I want to know that I tried. So I stalked Jack Canfield to try and build a relationship with him for years and I would ask people with big stages if I could come and speak. I mean, I just went and pitched myself to the Mind Valley podcast. And I'm thinking there's no way I'm gonna get

on the Mind Valley podcast at this stage. But then someone gets back to me and says, hey, let's set it up. You just don't know. So I think being daring has really helped me to be successful. National security experts are warning, our aging power grid is more vulnerable than ever. January marked a third time a power station in North Carolina was damaged by gunfire.

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and control you need to weather any storm. NetSuite.com slash monahan. And being daring is really being able to step out of your comfort zone. And I know that you work with people on helping them to do that. So how have you been able to do that so readily? And how do you help people do that? I wonder if I have done it so readily, or if it's being hard. My mother used to say, to get me to do something, all she had to do was tell me it couldn't be done when I was a kid. And then I motivated you to go to go. Yeah, I'd be like really?

So I think I've always been a possibility generation machine. Like what would it take? Or how could that happen? Or what if I asked in a different way? What would it take? Or how could that happen? Or what if I asked in a different way? I've always done that, but it's not, I don't wanna give the impression it's been easy. Sometimes it's really scary and I push my edge. I think I'm willing to be uncomfortable.

So as an example, I went to the Transformation Leadership Council retreat about a year ago in Montreal. So for people who don't know, this is Jack Canfield and John Gray, Mary Ann Williamson used to be a member, Don McGellar, where there's a lot of people from the secret, a part of this group, and I'm fortunate enough to be a member. And I was really star struck. I often am. I really feel out of my element when I'm fortunate enough to be a member. And I was really star struck. I often am. I really feel out of my element when I'm with these people

because I'm not there watching them speak. I'm there as a colleague. And I'm like, like someone's got to find me out at some point. I was in Costa Syndrome. And I noticed after the retreat that I made four requests that were really edgy for me. I asked Jack if he'd be interested in writing a book together and I'm pretty sure he gets a thousand offers a year. So that

was edgy for me. I asked an Oscar-winning producer who I just met what it would take to do a ride along the next time he's filming a movie. And I asked a woman I just met if she'd be interested in going to Columbia with me. So these were all edgy for me, but the insight I had at the end of it was these were all tough conversations, but my win had nothing to do with the result. If Jack says yes, that's a bonus. If she says yes to Columbia, it's a bonus. The producer did say yes to the right along, but I felt good about myself because I was self-expressed and I spoke up.

That's the real win. Any results that come out of it, are wonderful to be there pure bonus. So you just, while you were explaining that, I was thinking of my, I just gave a TEDx talk a couple of weeks ago, their pure bonus. So you just, while you were explaining that, I was thinking of my, I just gave a TEDx talk a couple weeks ago, and right before I was going to go on, I went into pure panic mode, which has never happened to me, and the only way I could calm myself down,

as I said, if you don't walk out there right now, you'll never forgive yourself. If you go out there and blow it, I'm going to be so proud of you. And that was the push that I needed to take. It didn't matter how it went once I was in the circle. I just wanted to walk out to the circle and try. And so I totally agree with you. That's definitely how I get over my hurdles, whatever the fear could be in any moment.

Yeah. I think we have this delusion that we think we're supposed to feel confident before we do something. It's like, oh, I'll go and speak when I'm feeling confident about it. Or look at that guy or that woman, they seem to have confidence. It's not hard for them, but for me, it's edgy to go and ask a woman out. Or for me, it's edgy to go and get up on stage. No, let's let that go.

The whole idea that you've got to have confidence first. I think it's about being willing to be uncomfortable. So don't wait until you can step into the cold shower and have that be easy and comfortable. Go and do it screaming and freaking out and breathing and being willing to be uncomfortable. And Dan, I always get these names confused. Dan, it's either Sullivan or Kennedy. One of those Dan's talks about, you need courage first. Just courage, be uncomfortable, go and do it before you have the confidence.

See, when you first start doing something, you probably don't have a lot of competence. So therefore, you don't have the confidence, the confidence, and that's natural. That's normal. All you need is the courage. Go and do it a bunch of times, and you will develop the competence from that. Same with tough conversations. You develop your competence, and then once you have the competence, now you have the confidence, and you won't need as much courage.

But don't go around thinking, I'll wait until I have the confidence or the confidence to do it. Now, you've got to be uncomfortable. It can feel terrible doing some of this stuff. Oh, I could not agree with you more. And for two decades, when I was in corporate America, I lived a very safe life where I didn't put myself out of my comfort zone.

I didn't challenge myself to have a difficult conversation, a tough conversation, or to step into fear, to step into a TEDx circle or a big stage. And for the past two years, I discipline myself every single day to step into that fear. And it truly does become easier over time because it becomes your new norm. Again the TEDx was my recent real scary moment so you can have those spikes of oh my gosh

here's fear it's back again even though I've been getting better at this you know I kind of fell off the horse today so I so I'm learning that it isn't just a natural climb. Yeah. I feel a little sad. I think it's such a shame that like when I get up on stage, I don't look scared. I look like this often, but I can be so terrified once when I went on national television in Australia. I was, I told you I was in entertainer, so I was playing guitar in pubs and parties, and I applied to go on our national gong show in Australia. I thought it would be good press for me. It was our, but okay.

Yeah, well, I was in entertainer and I wanted to go on on TV playing guitar and singing so people could see what I was doing. And I wasn't a very good singer at all. So on backstage in the green room, about to go on national television. And at the time, we only had five channels, five stations. So this was a big deal. And I'm wearing a kilt. And I'm about to go and sing 500 miles by the proclaimers with a really bad Scottish accent. And I'm so scared that I'm

going to get the notes wrong. I won't find the key. I'll forget the words. And I'm going to be seen by everybody I know. And I started to lose a little bladder control. Just to touch, I think I lost three drops. Do you think that helped me relax or get even more terrified? More terrified. That now I'm going to pee myself on national television wearing a kilt. So, don't look at people who are successful and just assume they don't have fear and they don't have to dig into their courage. I was so terrified. In fact, I had my overnight bag with me. I went and put on two extra pairs of underpants.

Just in case. And then I went on and I did the National Gong Show. And if you search for Mr. Woody on YouTube, you'll probably find it. But there's an example of being willing to move through terror. Now don't go too far. I don't want everyone to go out there and just overdo things and go into trauma because that's another thing

You've got to know when to say am I pushing myself into the sweet spot where there's growth or am I pushing myself too far Where I'm going to burn out and have trauma and overwhelm. I don't know. Do you think that happens often? I don't know anyone that looks like that in trauma and overwhelm. Yeah. Oh, yeah Really? It happens a lot. It happened for me because I consider myself the spiritual warrior and I thought there were no limits. And so one thing that I found is I was scared of abandonment because of my early childhood

history. So I, some of my friends were doing open relationships and dating more than one person. And I was scared of it. And I thought, I'm going to lean into this. Can I love someone and keep an open heart when I'm terrified of abandonment? But I found, and also paragliding, I go and jump off a mountain in the pole and go up to 10,000 feet, I didn't have any kind of calibration or awareness of what was too much for my body. And I went into anxiety and depression from dating, open relationships. I found that that's just too much for me. Someone might go up on stage and might actually be traumatized by it.

They might not be ready for a big stage. They might want to start with a small stage. Some people work too many hours, and they're burning themselves out. So, I've coached people, and I've actually done it myself where I've gone and confessed to a crime and risked prison.

Now, you've got to be ready for that. Don't do that unless you've done the work and you're actually willing to go to prison for something you're confessing to. So, this is very important. I'm all about pushing yourself, but you're the only one who can decide, just like a parent would with a child. How much pushing is good for the child and when to say to the child, hey, you don't have to do that. You can do that when you're ready. To me, that sounds like having self-awareness, having boundaries to protect yourself, which is critical in life. Yeah, I learned that the hard way. Yeah, oh my gosh, you really did. That was an eye opening story there. I broke my back in Columbia last year.

It's been a year now since I broke my back, paragliding. And I learned like, wow, I've really got to, you know, be courageous. That's great, but choose where I'm being courageous and how to manage my risk. I'm giving up my wing. I've touched the sky. I got away with it because I'm being courageous and how to manage my risk. I'm giving up my wing. I've touched the sky. I got away with it because I'm walking again.

And yeah, you got to know when's too much. So let's get back to the importance of tough conversations, how that affects confidence, the role that that plays with fear and why tough conversations are so important. Because this is a topic that I've never addressed nor have I even had dialogue around this. Yeah. You know tough conversations are like the elephant in the room that no one's talking about. Sometimes we don't even see the elephant because we just sweep it under the carpet.

That's going to be too awkward. Let's not even think about it. So it's natural to avoid tough conversations. I get it. I'm not making anyone wrong for that. And there are good reasons to avoid the conversations. The main two that I've discovered is a fear of discomfort. Again, we don't want to be uncomfortable or awkward or feel sad or angry. And we don't want someone else feeling sad or angry or distancing themselves from us because that'll feel uncomfortable too. So fear of discomfort is one reason. And the second reason that we avoid it is fear of loss. If I have a tough comment, if I confess to something, my partner may break up with me, or my boss might get annoyed at me and I'm not going to be included on that project anymore.

I might lose my job. I might lose my freedom and go to prison. So there are good reasons to avoid it and I get it, but I think what the brain is missing is the potential upside. We're not walking around assessing things objectively and saying, wait, there are three or four good reasons that I might want to have that conversation if someone could show me how to have it artfully. And here are some of the upsides. One, you get to feel self-expressed. As a kid, I wasn't very self-expressed. I didn't know it, but when it came to bullies, I didn't know how to speak to them. I didn't know how to

stand up for myself. When it came to girls, I didn't know how to ask them out. I had to talk to them. I felt horrible. So I've learned that self-expression in and of itself is a win, even if we don't get the results. Now you mentioned a great benefit as well, which is related to that, which is confidence, which is another word for self-esteem. So whenever I have a tough conversation,

let's say nine times out of ten, I like myself more. And my confidence goes up because I have agency now, the ability to influence something. I'm speaking up, my voice matters. There's dignity there. Even before we get to a result. So we got confidence in self-esteem Another benefit is usually your connection with the other person will increase Now it's true. You might have a train wreck and it might take a second round or a third round Or they may have a reaction and it might take time for them to get over it But usually even if you disagree and they won't give you what you want They may have a reaction and it might take time for them to get over it, but usually, even if you disagree and they won't give you what you want, the fact that I'm sharing my

honest world and I'm getting their honest world, we're more connected. And then the fourth one is the obvious one. You can get amazing results out of having a tough conversation. You can ask someone who has a big audience if you can be on their stage. That's a tough conversation. You can ask a prospective client for their business. You know what's funny hearing you give those examples. To me, those do not sound like tough conversations at all. And this is opening my mind to everybody views a tough conversation differently. To me, a tough conversation is to someone is with someone I have an existing long lasting relationship with and we have a disagreement or an issue or like you said, an elephant in the room that we haven't been addressing for a while. The idea to me to ask someone if I could take a stage is

whatever, it's no big deal at all. I don't even know the person like there's no that doesn't sound challenging to me But the idea of an intimate relationship where we haven't been addressing an issue When I was in corporate America at the end of my run working at a company for 14 years the man I had worked for I had a very close Relationship with he was like a second father to me He wasn't being honest with me that his sister was taking over the company. I saw a number of clues going on and I kept trying to bring it up softly

because I could tell he didn't wanna have the conversation. The angst and anxiety I went through during that year because of that tough conversation that never really occurred, it was horrible. To me that's a really tough conversation. When I know someone doesn't want to sit down and be transparent and honest with me, and I know they're in pain, and I know I'm in pain,

and I'm afraid of what that real answer is, that sounds horrible to me. Yeah, it sounds to me like the stakes will high for that conversation. You've got a connection, the person matters to you. They may have some kind of power over you, if it's a boss or a partner or a parent, you know, there's a lot of power. So that can increase the stakes.

And another category of tough conversation for some people, what if you're, what if you're on a plane and the person's bumping you seat behind you? What if you're on a plane and the person's bumping your seat behind you? That's really hard and difficult for me. What are you kidding me? Why wouldn't you just turn around and say knock it off? I've got history from being a kid and being picked on. From kids behind me putting chewing gum in their hair and stuff like it's slapping me over the head. So I get triggered and it's an edge for me. What if someone's, you're on a train and someone's speaking really loud on the phone, right? Or some kids laughing and having

whatever. And it's a quiet carriage or something like that. These things for a lot of people, including me, can be really tough conversations. So you don't have to have a long-term relationship with someone, and you don't have to have a current relationship with someone. Another category is cleaning up things from the past. So I, one of my toughest was calling a bully from school, from 30 years ago, because I've been holding under resenting him for 30 years, and I finally decided to let it go, and my coach suggested it'd be more powerful if I had a direct interaction. I said, you're kidding me. No, I'm not going to do it. It took quite a bit of coaching because I was afraid. I didn't even know it

was afraid of until the coach helped me see. I was afraid that he would think I was afraid, I didn't even know it. I was afraid of until the coach helped me see. I was afraid that he would think I was a total idiot and would judge me for making a phone call like that. What happened? I'm dying to know. What happened is once I found out what I was afraid of, I had access to making the call because I realized, ah, that's what I'm afraid of.

And my coach said, why don't you lead with that? So I called him and I said, I'm so nervous to have this call because I'm worried you're going to think I'm a complete idiot. And he said, well, I'm curious now, what is it? What's going on? And I told him, I felt like you won up to me all through school and I tried to do the same to you, but you were better at it. And I just, I've resented you for 30 years. And I'm letting it go. Like life's too short. I wanted to let you know. And then he said the most amazing thing. This is this jerk that I went to school with said, what can I say or do now to help you or us to move forward? That was wonderful.

It, it, it transform my reality. That's the fifth benefit of a tough conversation. Whatever you think is real can shift with a tough conversation. So, it was not just now in my world, this jerk was a caring person, but my subconscious started running that through going, well, who else in the world that I thought was a jerk could be a caring person?

It just totally opened my reality. Wow, that's a really profound. It sounded crazy to me you were making that phone call, I have to tell you. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's just wild because it's so from so long ago, it's so interesting,

it had that powerful positive impact on your life. Well, I'd call this black belt moves. So if you're just starting out in tough conversations, no need to do that. No need to do what another client did, which is to go and confess to a burglary that he committed when he was 15, right? I've confessed to a crime myself.

You don't have to go that far. I called a girlfriend from high school days who'd broken up with me twice and give me the cold shoulder twice. And I always hated it for that. Called her completed it. That's black belt stuff. You don't have to do that. You can start with the small things, speaking up with things with your current partner, your current boss. I'd call it black belt level. We'd go back and start cleaning up the past. Huge benefit to it. But you want to

would go back and start cleaning up the past, huge benefit to it, but you wanna develop your skills on some easier things before you go for the huge ones. And everybody's easy is gonna look different, right? Depending on what they're comfortable with. Right, some things might be easy for me. You might go, no, I'm not gonna do that one. So again, don't traumatize yourself.

Just push yourself into that sweet spot where you're growing and it's a bit uncomfortable but it's not totally, not totally traumatic. I had a podcast interview yesterday or the day before and the host was like, there's a bully that I have hated for years and I think I'm going to consider calling that guy. Like, what? He's like, yeah, I've held onto it for so long and I can imagine the freedom. If I can have that conversation, then what else could I do in my life?

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Yeah. That sounds very liberating. Have you ever seen, I want to give you the flip side of this? What if one time somebody calls the bully and the bully's mean and the person regresses? I mean, is there ever that downside of having the conversation that something worse, I mean, that's just what my mind's going to, what if something negative came from that call? Yeah, well, this is why it's a tough conversation. We are tough because there's some kind of fear of loss and discomfort.

You can't control it. So it takes vulnerability. What I'm risking and calling him is total judgment of him saying, you're a dickhead and you're a loser. You know, he could have said all sorts of stuff like that. One thing that helped is I gave up needing anything from him. I wanted to share my experience and that I was letting it go. I was not demanding an apology.

Therefore, I was not really at his mercy. All I really wanted from him was he's listening. Now I got a bonus out of it. Had he said, you're a loser, don't call me with this kind of stuff. And by the way, in maybe a hundred calls that I've done, I don't think that's happened once. It just hasn't happened. If you do it artfully, if you follow the four steps and we can give you listeners the blueprint that they can download, you're going to take ownership, you're not going to be dumping it on them. When you did this, I felt this. This was my experience.

And then I'm letting it go. For example, I'm not blaming him. Now, how'd I started with blaming him for a bunch of stuff? That's asking for a train wreck. But because I'd done it, artfully, it didn't happen. I've had one conversation that I can remember, one tough conversation that was a train wreck. It was horrible. And I got coaching before I had the conversation and I've had I've asked four or five people after it. If I could have done it better, no one could see it better way. It was someone I'd invited a group of people to come to my party, my birthday party, because I liked almost everybody in the group. It was one person I was a bit uncomfortable with and someone said including her and I was like,

oh damn, I don't want her at my party, I look at my integrity, I don't want her there, she tends to grab a lot of attention and I want it to be being my night. I'm like, what am I going to do with that? I don't want to uninvite her that's rude. I don't want to uninvite the whole group because I want most of them. I'm going to have to talk with her. And so I had a conversation and I shared my issue. I said, I want this to be my night and sometimes the attention is on you. And you know, can we have a signal a signal like I want you to come you're invited we have a signal if I feel like something's too much you're taking all the attention it's signal to tone it down and if that doesn't work for you okay maybe it's not a fit but I laid it out on the line and she thought about it and got back to me and said that doesn't

feel good to me I'm not gonna come So it was actually a good positive right outcome, but she didn't feel good about the call and we haven't had any conversation since, which actually I think is also appropriate because we're not friends and I don't wanna be friends. But that's like one of the worst outcomes that I felt like I had and even that was probably what was supposed to happen.

Yeah, I don't think that's a bad outcome because to me what I hear was you didn't really like being a rounder. So I think it's positive. I mean, that's it's a much better situation probably for both of you. But again, I wanted her to be happy. I wanted her to feel empowered and be happy. I didn't get that. But I guess I did get the outcome that I wanted in the end, which was her. She had the option to come under certain guidelines and she chose not to. So actually, yeah, there probably was a good outcome, but my point is, if you do it responsibly and you follow the the four steps in the blueprint, your chances of having a good outcome are much higher. And what are the four steps? Four steps. Well, firstly, you do, you will call it step zero,

as you do the worksheet that comes with the download. And that'll help you prepare and understand what you're hoping will come out of it. You'll understand what you're afraid of. If there's a request to make, you'll write that down. So you get all these powerful things out of the worksheet and then step one, ask permission. Don't just launch into this stuff with somebody and blindside them, give them a little bit of context. Hey, can we talk, can we talk for about 10 minutes about the latest company policy? My hope is that we'll be on the same page and that I'll feel much better about the policy or that there'll be a change that's made. So you're asking permission and that's where you'll slip in your hope from the worksheet.

Step two, this is optional, share your fear or concern. With this bully, that's what gave me the freedom to speak to say I'm worried about this She might say to my boss to your boss I'm hesitant to bring it up because I don't want to be the squeaky wheel In fact, you've already said no to it and I want to I want to have round two So I'm I'm hesitant that I'm going to get you off side or annoy you and I think it's worth bringing it up again You kind of being you preemptive now You letting them know what you're afraid of and you're telling them, I'm on my edge here. This is a bit edgy for

me. They're going to listen from a different place. Step three, this is where you share whatever your issue is. I want to change the company policy. I'm upset about this. When you did this, I felt hurt. Whatever it is, you share it. And then if you have a request, this is a great place to bring it. My request is we change the company policy, and my request is we start a committee to do this. Or my request is you give me a chance to earn your trust back, because I'm really sorry. Whatever it is, given something they can actually do, rather than just dumping a bunch of stuff. And then step four, this is where you get curious and you listen because we want tough conversations, we don't want tough

monologues. So I'm a control freak, I want to go in, wrap it up in a bow, get what I want and get out, I don't want to feel uncomfortable. But step four is where you really, you might say something like, thanks for listening. Now, I want to hear how that lands for you. What are your ideas? Do you have a better idea than this? How is it for you to hear all that? Then you shut up and listen. And you might negotiate something that's better than what you came up with. They might have another idea. What if the person, what if you go through all these steps, which makes perfect sense to me, and you handle the conversation, artfully, masterfully, and then the person says, well, I'm just going to have to get back to you.

And then crickets, they don't say anything and you don't hear back from them. So unsaid to me, I'm going to, I'm going to have to get back to you. I might say something like, thank you. Yeah, take some time to let this sit. I've had a month to dwell on this. So think about it. And what kind of time frame works for you? Shall we say, we could keep it open-ended,

but just so we can close the loop on this, how long do you want? That's good. Yeah, I definitely like that. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, I might just leave it with them for a few days and then get back Do you want to close the loop on that? I'd curious what's percolating touch base? They might they might not have anything that they want to say and that's okay, too They might they might not have anything that they want to say and that's okay, too But what's critical is that we give them the option and they're invited and I really do want to know How this lands for them you don't want to create another tough conversation for them We're just dumping all this stuff on them and then running

You if there is a reaction you want to find out what the impact is and give them a chance to move through it They might feel defensive Okay Okay, great. Tell me about it. Oh, I can get that. Yeah, I might feel defensive too if someone said that. Like the woman who I didn't want at my party, right? She didn't feel good. I said, I can get that. I don't think I'd feel good either if someone said that about me. If somebody wanted me to signal that. Yeah, if someone said, often you're too much and you take all the attention in the room, that might be hard to hear. So how do you identify a tough conversation?

Because one of the things you're opening my mind to is that there might be tough conversations I need to have out there that I'm just not even paying attention to or aware of. I'm so glad you said that. See, this is one of the tricks with me choosing this as my specialty. Most people aren't walking around going, I've got six tough conversations to have, and I'm just not sure the best way to have them. Usually people can find one, but what they can find is more easily is problems. So one way to identify your tough conversations, get a sheet of paper, write down anybody on the left hand column who you don't feel

100% wonderful with, or who you might complain about someone else too. I just thought, okay, I've got an assistant and recently, recently, and hello, love you. If you're listening to this, recently she's been sick and I had a lot of complaints. And so that would be an example like, oh, there's a tough conversation to have because I have a complaint here with this person. The reporting wasn't happening the way I wanted. So it's like, we have to have a conversation about that. So at least on the left, who are the people, you don't feel 100% wonderful with or might complain about to someone else. And then on the right hand side, what's the issue? They're too arrogant or I don't feel respected by them or something they're doing bugs me or he needs a shower or I have a confession with this person.

I'm not saying you have to go and have all these conversations but this is how you can start to identify the conversations that are waiting to happen. And then you would pick a couple, circle a couple that you're ready to go and go and try the four step blueprint with. And as you get more confidence with it, you might be like, I'm going to keep going through this list. And you can work your way up to the to the harder ones. And if some are really too hard, like you really cannot see the path. And particularly if it's going to involve some legal consequences or your part, I'm breaking up with you and taking the kids or some real losing your job,

you might want to get some coaching first. Do some role playing to make a huge difference. You want to learn all your insights before the conversation, if you can, you don't want to have the conversation and then realize later, on now I know how I could have avoided a train wreck. Yeah, that would be an epic fail. Yeah, a little bit of prep. In event, for example, I went and did a conversation with some business partners.

I was frustrated feeling like they haven't done enough. I want more out of them. So I did it pretty well. I created a video and sent it to them like a one-sided beginning of a conversation, but had I had a little prep, a little coaching, I could have stepped into their shoes first and realized that they could be thinking, well, dude, if you want more from us, you could ask for it. Instead of getting frustrated and telling us we're doing something wrong, you could just ask if I just opened my mind and seen that beforehand, I could have thrown that into the video.

For you guys, you guys might be thinking, why is this guy frustrated? He hasn't even asked us for anything, right? You could see like, this seems crazy and I totally understand that. And I noticed I've been feeling frustrated, so I'm asking now. I could have just preempted that, because one of them did get a bit defensive, and a little bit of coaching could have just taken that off the tape. I find it so interesting that you as this master coach,

you yourself get illicit coaching from somebody else. I think that that's really powerful. Yeah, because it's tough for me, partly, because I can't see the whole board. I can't see the whole board. I Can't see the whole picture. I'm triggered. I'm worried about someone getting defensive or I'm worried about Being upset at my own party or whatever. I'm kind of kind of got tunnel vision and someone outside me Can listen to that so when I listen to a client they tell me what the issue is, and I'm listening for what are you worried about? I'm listening for what's the benefit of having this conversation?

Why would we even bother? And I'm listening for what's the other person probably thinking? And then we'll do a role play, and we'll switch, and I'll be the person who has the tough conversation, and they'll be their friend or their boss or whatever and I'll speak all these things using the four steps and they go wow but I was I'm outside them so I was able to hear what's underneath and then make it explicit in the conversation so sometimes I mean the four step blueprint can take you maybe 80% of the way most of the time But when it's still tricky or scary coach can help you work out why it's scary and find the path through it So where can everyone get the blueprint?

Where can they find you and find potential more coaching from you? Thank you play for real dot life is my website playforreal.life. And three invitations I have for you. One, download the blueprint. It's a free download. Secondly, if something's resonated for you in this conversation and you're seriously interested in up leveling your life and your business or career, see if you qualify for a discovery session with me. And if you do, I won't charge you for it.

We'll create a plan for your life and business. And you might want to go and implement that on your own, or you might want to work with me on it. And the other thing is, my podcast is now live after 10 months of preparation. So tough conversations with David Wood, you can join me and listen to me as well as Heather. Love that, excellent.

Well, thank you so much, David. I know how busy you are. I know how many tough conversations you're tackling as a ninja all around the world. So I appreciate your time in being here today. You're welcome, thank you, Heather. All right, and we'll be right back. Okay, so one of the things that I see others working on or an opportunity for others to work on

is to hold the pen when telling your story. And this takes me back to University of Miami Law School this week. And some of the feedback that I was giving to students, which is if you're not on LinkedIn yet, if you're not being forward leaning with your LinkedIn profile, update your picture. Make sure you have a professional image. Update your bio. Ask for reviews and recommendations of your work. This is the society that we live in today. This speaks volumes for your business,

for you, for your value proposition. You've got to differentiate yourself as unique You've got to really be able to nail the why you and LinkedIn such a great place to do that And no, this is not an ad for LinkedIn. I just want to help you. This has been such an unbelievable revenue driver for me for my business And it's such a great growth platform right now Instagram used to be fast growing great growth platform right now. Instagram used to be fast growing, it is not now, it is very difficult to grow on Instagram. So, you know, again, we always want to grow our email list, we want to grow our site traffic, we want to grow our business, but some really great organic ways to do that

is through LinkedIn. So get intentional about the message that you want to share and be consistent. I remember four years ago when I really got intentional. This is when I was still in corporate America about bringing my message to market. I look back now and see the post that I used to put up. They're so different and more stock. I would use a lot of stock images of business meetings or whatever. I don't know, but it's really evolved to now I'm just more real me. And it's been that's an evolution that didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen necessarily by design, but it happened by

me becoming more comfortable and by taking small steps forward. So that's what I would encourage you to do is take those small steps forward today to show up a bit more as the real you. When you do that, you inevitably end up weeding out the people that you're not supposed to be with, even though in the moment that can seem like a micro challenge and I tell you I am right there with you, but I'm constantly reminding myself the more I'm the real me and I ask for what I really, truly want, which I know I deserve and should be getting. The people that are not meant for me will fall away and the people that are meant to be

with me will show up. It will happen and you've got to have that. And I was speaking to a good friend who's going through a difficult contract negotiation. And this person is an absolute all-star. But I could tell it's been really trying on her that she second-guessing herself, but she stopped and said to me, listen, I'm going to lean on my faith. And I'm going to lean on me.

I'm good. And I'm better than good. I deserve this. And if these people don't want me, there will be somebody else that will. And it's all about moving forward with that faith and moving forward that we don't know what tomorrow holds. And that idea that there's uncertainty,

well, uncertainty means anything is possible. We haven't figured it out yet. And we might be in that window of that micro challenge today, but that means that there is that macro opportunity tomorrow as long as we're showing up as ourselves and asking for what we want. And as Sarah Hap shared on on my show a few weeks ago asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars, because that is exactly what we deserve, and you deserve that too. If you love True Crime Podcasts, Podcasts 1 is a perfect destination.

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