Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - The KEY To Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess with Dr. Caroline Leaf Episode 129

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

Who hasn’t dealt with anxiety and depression, especially after this pandemic!? But what do we do about it? Thankfully, I have the incredible communication pathologist and cognitive neuroscientist, Dr. Caroline Leaf, with us to share her 5 step process to managing our MINDS. She is here to shift the narrative about mental health and encourage us to put a stop to the shame-spiral once and for all. Let’s get the tools we need, stop repressing, start self-regulating, and clean up our mental mess!    About The Guest: Dr. Caroline Leaf is a communication pathologist and cognitive neuroscientist with a Masters and PhD in Communication Pathology and a BSc Logopaedics, specializing in cognitive and metacognitive neuropsychology. Since the early 1980s she has researched the mind-brain connection, the nature of mental health, and the formation of memory. She was one of the first in her field to study how the brain can change (neuroplasticity) with directed mind input.    During her years in clinical practice and her work with thousands of underprivileged teachers and students in her home country of South Africa and in the USA, she developed her theory (called the Geodesic Information Processing theory) of how we think, build memory, and learn, into tools and processes that have transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands of individuals with Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), learning disabilities (ADD, ADHD), autism, dementias and mental ill-health issues like anxiety and depression. She has helped hundreds of thousands of students and adults learn how to use their mind to detox and grow their brain to succeed in every area of their lives, including school, university, and the workplace.   Finding Dr. Caroline Leaf: Website: https://drleaf.com/  Read Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess: 5 Simple, Scientifically Proven Steps to Reduce Anxiety, Stress, and Toxic Thinking Listen to her podcast: CLEANING UP THE MENTAL MESS with Dr. Caroline Leaf Twitter & Instagram: @drcarolineleaf Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DrCarolineLeaf   Review this podcast on Apple Podcast using this LINK and when you DM me the screen shot, I buy you my $299 video course as a thank you!    To pre-order Overcome Your Villains NOW and get the bonus bundle click here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com     See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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People get told they've decreased because they've got imbalanced neurochemicals. There's no even science behind that. And then they get told they've decreased because they've got imbalanced neurochemicals. There's no even science behind that. And then they get told they're getting given a medication that's going to rebalance the chemicals. It's not doing that. That medication is psychoactive, so it numbs the brain so you may have temporary relief. But it doesn't fix what's going on. It doesn't fix the adverse. It doesn't make the financial problem in COVID-Go away. It doesn't make the death of a loved one go away. You still got a process that you can't get away from it. It's terrible, but you have to go through those things.

The only way out is through. I'm on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals. We've come at first aid and set you up for a better tomorrow. That's a no-see of you. I'm ready for my close time.

Well, welcome back. I'm so excited for you to meet my guest today. Dr. Caroline Leif, she's a communication pathologist, cognitive neuroscientist with a master's and PhD in communication pathology and a BSC logo paid from the University of Cape Town and the University of Pretoria in South Africa, specializing in cognitive and metacognitive neuropsychology. Since the early 80s, she has researched the mid-brain connection, the nature of mental health and the formation of memory. She was one of the first in her field to study how the brain can change neuroplasticity with directed mind input. Dr. Leif, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, here.

It's so lovely to see you again. It's so lovely to see you. When I first met you at the virtual women's event that we did together a few months back, I pre-ordered your book that day. I was so excited about it. So amazing. Thank you.

I'm so honored, really. Thank you so much. Your book couldn't be coming out at a more fantastic time with anxiety and depression off of the charts for everyone and anyone. And I was reading some of the stats that your five-step process can potentially get rid of 81% of anxiety and depression. Yes. So basically, it's a system that I've developed over 38 years on a very initially as a very heavy sort of therapeutic tool

for people with severe toolments, severe brain injuries and learning disabilities and autism and then from there I adapted it and continually researched over the years and made it simple. So these different applications in this box got the most simple version which anyone can use. And I showed that basically if you manage your mind through the system, you can control anxiety and depression

by anyone proceeding to end more. And I mean, just 10% control of anxiety and depression you'll feel like a new person. So just to know you have that level of autonomy is just incredible. So we're very excited about that. So. Oh my gosh, it's unbelievable the results you have that liable autonomy is just incredible. So we're very excited about that. Oh my gosh, it's unbelievable the results you have. And one of the things that I like about your book is that

not only do you include the research, obviously, and lots of, you know, graphics images and whatnot to really highlight what's happening, but you share personal stories of your patients, which I think is so cool and relatable. Yes, I think that's important that people can see this as actually real people, that, you know, that I mean, we reach so many around the world now, but when you do clinical case studies and clinical trials, it's really, it's amazing to see the difference. And in this particular trial,

we had people, it was all very statistic, it was gold stands, specifically driven gold standard, random control trials, so that, trial so that the golden sort of the best way that you can do them. And I say that to say that everyone came into the trial in the control and experimental group in a really bad place and really battling like emotions of the child anxiety, depression, labels, betting with just everything that you can imagine. In the experimental group within three weeks, we saw massive changes, and within nine weeks, we saw behavioral changes. And those numbers are significant because it takes about three weeks for you to actually identify

the cause of why you feel anxious or depressed or what's going on, you know, why you feel like this, because anxiety and depression aren't illnesses, which is what we've been told. And that's the wrong narrative. And that's caused a lot of the problems that we seem today, this incorrect narrative. Exiting depression, aren't it, they're not like canceled diabetes? They are emotional responses, like fear or frustration or irritation

or guilt, they're just a different type of emotional response, which is actually a warning signal telling you that, okay, I'm showing up like this, something's going on. So what we saw in the clinical trial was that people were showing up at the beginning of the clinical trial with all these things going on and all these emotions dominating. And there were same things about themselves like,

I am anxiety, I am clinically depressed. That was their identity. Their narratives were so interesting because they were all around what they couldn't do and the lack of hope and what was going wrong. But they didn't know why. They were just, they were so, it was all very focused on the external, life just falling apart. On 21 days, the in the experimental group, they were saying things like, I'm not clinical depression, that I'm not an it. I am depressed because of. This is why I'm feeling like this. There's a reason. So the guilt and the shame and the condemnation

and the stigma and the why on time, better and all those negative things had changed, which is phenomenal. By 63 days, which is the time that it takes to actually change a behavior, time takes to build a habit. Doesn't happen in 21 days, which is actually a myth. By 63 days, we saw actual changes in their life.

So day won, the identity was depression, they were hopeless, held hopeless. By the 21, they weren't depression, they were saying, I am depressed because of by the 63, there was behavior change. So their relationships were back online, they were back at work, they were sleeping, they were functioning, and they weren't frightened of depression anymore. And it wasn't like, you're never going to have depression again. Depression is not a thing that you can get and catch like a virus. Depression is simply responses to adverse circumstances. So for example, not during COVID, I mean, the pandemic, people have lost loved ones, had lost finances and all that kind of stuff.

Obviously, you're going to be depressed and anxious and worried. Doesn't mean you have a brain disease. It means you've been exposed to a virus that's changed your life and it's an adverse circumstance and you're being a human responding to an adverse circumstance. And that's the narrative I'm trying to bring through in the book, cleaning up your mental mess is that you're human and being a human you're going to experience anxiety and depression and all manner of mental mace obviously a different, along the scale, different states, different certain people and obviously these are continuum. But that's human. If you human your life, you are going to, life's challenging. And why we look at the singers are one in four, got depression, one in five, got anxiety and it's on the increase, it's not on the increase. What's not one in four that have got depression, it's a hundred percent of people have got depression. A hundred percent of people are anxious, you've got to stop these scary numbers that are actually wrong. It's the numbers are bigger than what they're saying because it's normal.

So it's like if you think that you sort of look at the paradox, they say, what in four, they're so bad and it's increasing. Now, I say, no, no, 100%, which normalizes it. We're human. We're going to battle. Some days, we up, some days, we down. We have this experience, we have that experience and the throws us when we respond. And what we've got to do is embrace those responses for what they are. No one just shows up with no reason why you sharpened that. You sharpened

work to pre-stool. You wake up and you have a lot of stuff going on in your previous few days and you wake up not feeling full of energy like you normally do and feeling sad. She's not a brain disease. you're just being a human, responding and processing life. And it totally shift that narrative. We've got a massive problem. And we've had this narrative of it being a brain disease, any emotional experience for around 40 years now. And I've watched over the trajectory of my career.

So I've been in this world now for 38 years, which is a long time. Practice clinically for 25. And I've done research for 38 years. I still do clinical trials and I've watched this trajectory and it's really concerned me. And fortunately at the same time as a lot of our scientists watching this, there was a massive study done and federal data demonstrated from this massive study that because of this narrative of not looking at humans, but reducing everything down to their brain and the body and the neurobiology, everything's in your hiding in your brain waiting to sort of jump out and get you.

So if you depressed, there's something wrong with your brain. If you anxious, there's something wrong with your brain. If you said for longer than three days, there's something wrong with your brain. Meanwhile, it's just you in life. And that narrative has grown over the last 40 years, as we've discovered more about medicine in the brain. And that's great that we've discovered more about medicine in the brain. You want to, you want to improve in neuroscience and medicine and technology, but not at the cost of humanity, of being human, of the narrative. And so we've

shifted from this, what's going on in your life and you're showing up like this is a reason to, oh, what are your symptoms? Let's give you a diagnosis, let's give you medication, let's numb the pain. And then people get told, they've decreased because they've got imbalanced neurochemicals. There's not even signs behind that. And then they get told, they're getting given a medication that's going to rebalance the chemicals. It's not doing that.

That medication is psychoactive, so it numbs the brain so you may have temporary relief. But it doesn't fix what's going on. It doesn't fix the adverse. It doesn't make the financial problem in COVID go away. It doesn't make the death of a loved one go away. You still got a process that you can't get away from it. It's terrible, but you have to go through those things. The only way out is through. So until we shift the narrative, we're going to land up with what we did land up with,

but 40 years of doing this. Just before COVID hit, federal data was released. The data was released. It was from 1996 to 2020, 2014, it's long study showing that trying to find out what was going on, and they found that with all the advances in medicine and technology, instead of people living longer, they dying like 8 to 25 years younger. So how does that happen? Medicine's advancing, technology's advancing, neuroscientist's advancing, research is advancing, but we're going backwards with people dying younger for the first time in decades, and their age group being most affected are 25 to 64-year-olds.

So those are people in the prime of their work career, young parents, so kids are losing parents, their work force is losing like their workers in their prime. And they call them deaths of despair. And when they said, okay, why is this happening, they said it's from preventable lifestyle issues, preventable. So here we are in this advanced age, and people are dying when it could be prevented.

So it comes back to how do you prevent a lifestyle issue? Well, it's how you're managing your life, how you're managing your mind. So it comes all the way back full circle to Who are we and what is mind and where do we begin this thing? Where do we begin preventing this? So it begins in our mind and for the last 40 years, we focus so much on the biology that we've forgotten about the humanity, which is our aliveness, which is our mind, which is the difference between you and I being alive and the viewers being alive and a dead person. Dead person doesn't have a mind active. So the difference between a dead person and you and I and the viewers is mind. Mind is your aliveness. And if you squash mind into a biological concept,

that's not all it is. That's only part of what mind is. It uses the biology. Mind has got another whole aspect to it. But if you ignore that, you ignore our humanity. And that's what has been happening. And we're paying the price. They're calling a death of the speed, which is very appropriate

because people are literally dying from not being able to process. I mean, our kids, Gen Z, millennials and Gen Z are suffering, especially Gen Z, are the first generation to come through completely drugged. It's the first generation that's so drugged. In other words, they're medicated for everything. 20 years ago, I could give 15 years ago, 10 years ago,

I could give a lecture to school about emotions and feelings and trauma, and they would all understand that that comes from something. You've experienced something and that you need a process that and you need to talk about it and get therapy and connect with others. Now you go do that lecture they'll say, what's my diagnosis and what drug do I need? You know, so that's the shift that's happened and that shift is not healthy. And now we have COVID, we have COVID with that. Now we get COVID, so now there's increased isolation

and all these things and loss them, which obviously is gonna throw people's mental health out for a loop because it's an adverse circumstance. So now instead of them saying, oh gosh, we've got this whole pattern already hit prior to COVID, and now we've got this happening. Instead of saying that and saying, how are we gonna address this as a community?

How are we gonna help people process this? They say, oh, we've got to happening. Instead of saying that and saying, how are we going to address this as a community? How are we going to help people process this? They say, oh, we've got to increase screening and diagnosis and treatment, which is label, drug, and basically if you like to get a bit of therapy. And that's not going to solve the problem. It's going to make a 10 times worse. And just today I was interviewing a psychiatrist myself and who doesn't really, they use more nutrition.

And they were saying that by the middle of, I didn't know this, by the June last year, they'd already run out of one of the types of antidepressants. That's how much demand there was. That's not the way to help people manage a crisis. And that's what the world's come to. You have a crisis, you drug people, you give them a quick fix. And you forget all about the fact that we need a cry.

We need a scream. We need to get frustrated. We need to actually say, this is need a cry. We need a scream. We need to get frustrated. We need to actually say, this is not good enough. We need systemic change. We need a change racism. We need a change of systems that are keeping racism in place. We need a change of systems that are not allowing my child to process something that they're going through at school.

We've got to allow these leaders that are running corporations and leading people to actually express how they feel and not penalise them. And because you express that you've got depression, you get in the workforce, you're going to lose your job or you're going to get labeled as the crazy person. One doctor a day is committing suicide from pressure and depression of actually going through what they're going through. So I mean, the system is crazy. Three percent of leaders are only talking about mental health. Meanwhile, every human, if you're a human, you have mental health issues. That's just how it works.

So that's what we've got to watch for. I mean, I've said a lot. It's a long answer, but it kind of paints the picture that we need in your narrative. That's why I wrote this book is to say, hey, listen guys, you brilliant, you human. It's okay to feel a mess. Humans are messes. We messes all the time. And that is okay. What do you want to do is manage it. You've got to to feel a mess. Humans are messes. We messes all the time and that is okay. What we've got to do is manage it. We've got to manage our mental mess.

Now, for this high time, we actually put tools into people's hands to understand what mental health really is and what can I do with myself. You may be going to therapy once or twice a week, which is fantastic. This is not replacing therapy. This enhances the therapy. But what do you do with yourself the other 24 hours, seven days a week, six days a week, or whatever? You've got to live with your, you might never leave you, your aliveness never leaves you until you date.

So you've got to live with your aliveness, or how you're managing that. And that's the issue, that's why people are dying younger, they're not managing being alive in a very effective way. And it's quite radical to think of it like this, but it's basically the research shows that we have to, and it's logic, to think of it like this but it's basically the research shows that we have to and it's logic we don't even need to research we do if you just think about your gut instinct it is I need to share I need to be with someone and the last thing I'll just say

about this is let's say that you have a dinner party and a whole group of you get together you have a business function or something and you arrive at that business function and you say oh hi everyone I've just come from the psychiatrist and I've just been given a neuropsychiatric brain disease and given put on four medications and I've got to have this the rest of my life. Everyone's going to look at you and treat you differently. But if you had scenario number two, same person, same dinner party, same business meeting, same group of people and you say, hi everyone, oh gosh, I had such a week, this didn't happen and that happened and that happened and this happened in the business and then I had this flashback

and that really made me feel so traumatized and I had such a few days of depression, everyone will lean in and say, I get it, I'm so sorry, how can I help you, what can I do for you? Yeah, I had that, I feel the same, you'll have community, you'll have connection. That's the correct way of helping people to process, not like give a label and put it in a box and hope it's gonna go away, it doesn't. So you've got to shift how we're managing our lives long on set.

That's massive work to be done. And it's interesting because I've never been diagnosed with anxiety or depression. However, in the pandemic, a month in, I remember thinking, I need to start calling someone, I think I have one or both the pandemic, you know, a month in, I remember thinking, yeah, I need to, I need to start calling someone to, I think I, I have one or both, or I don't know, but immediately it went to, does that mean I need medication? That's the first thing I thought about because that's what we're conditioned to know. And as same as parents, you wouldn't want to withhold something if you thought that was a doctor telling you,

that's the right thing for your Exactly. That's the messaging. Thank you for saying that. That is the messaging that the public hoping get on. Do you know that I've trained thousands of physicians in my career and physicians and I've done part of my degree was in mid school. So it will be had to do a certain amount of time there. And most of my friends are in the medical field.

Doctors do not get training in mind. They've not trained in mind. They trained in biology, which is what they should be. It's a very medical field. Doctors do not get training in mind. They've not trained in mind. They trained in biology, which is what they should be. It's a very specialized field. Do you need mind specialists for mind, but you do need the cross-sover, but who do you go to if you feel sick, your primary care physician? Who then, if you will, 95% of prescriptions come antisochotics and antidepressants and so on, come from your primary care physician, there's no training in that. They've just given the basic thing of depression is a neuropsychiatric brain disease, these are the symptoms, these are the medications, it's a chemical imbalance. And even though that's been just proved, it's been like the top medical schools, the top psychiatrists,

the top leading scientists, well, so you don't even say that to people, it's still being saved to the public. It's still messaging and look at look at that you're really thoughtful in the pandemic because it's like so isolated and all these scary things and now you you you're having a normal reaction but you immediately thought there was something else wrong with you are you thinking oh gosh I've got to deal with the pandemic and the finances and whatever and I've got a brain disease that's just terrible terrible. That's so hopeless. So that's why I do the work I do. My right to this book is to try and bring that research

into people's hands and as accessible as I can to say, hey, listen, there really isn't anything wrong with you. You're being human. You're showing up like that because of something. You didn't just show up because there's something wrong with your brain. You showed up in that way because you've experienced something in life that's been traumatic or adverse and you are responding in the best way that you can. How do you deal with it? You don't want to stay there, it's not sustainable because it creates a toxic thought in the brain and thoughts look like trees, so there's a toxic thought and there's a healthy thought. I always use these little analogies. So we literally every experience becomes a thought in the brain and it becomes a thought in the

mind and we can talk about that in the moment You want to know if you if you are showing up with a lot of depression or anxiety There's a reason so you need to be a thought detective and actually go and find a way of fully understanding it and then Reconcentralizing it into something that you can manage that works for you So you don't throw your story out because it's a part of your story. If you look deeply into the trees here, you'll see these light branches and dark branches. The dark branches would be how you want to manage the situation and the light branches are what you managing. It's the story. It's the abuse. It's the loss. It's the financial loss. It's the trauma whatever that is. It's still part of your story, but how you managing it. That's the key.

And that's what research shows us what we designed to do. We actually are able to, when these manage, even if it's messy, I mean, it's messy, it takes time, but the management leads you to a place where you can cope, where you can actually deal with that stuff, where you can, and there's the next thing that hits you, you've got more resilience. So each time you get more self-regulated

with my management, you have the next crisis, or the next whatever. And this one always just big crises, but there's the little ones that happen every day, the little mini-tourmers. They're getting it to an argument with a loved one, or having an issue with your kids at school, or your kids have a five-posed their friends, and they totally traumatise, and you've got to help them through it all. You know, you have a business meeting, and your colleagues do some really stupid stupid thing or someone does something that's just crazy for the business and those are all mini-toolers How are we managing those? No, we're getting worked up, we're getting frustrated, we're getting reactive. That's not healthy That's just and in that cumulatively will increase feelings of anxiety and feelings of depression

But if you manage it, then you don't get scared of it because this feels we've made the public has been made to be scared and fearful of the words anxiety depression. It's fearful as people are of cancer. They become as fearful. I tell people love the depression and love the anxiety. Why? Because as soon as you embrace it, you control it. The more fear you have, the world controls you because it's not an it. It's just a response. So you embrace it to find out and love it because that's there's a message in that doesn't mean that you have to be all happy and betrayed and it's not being an ostrich and putting your head in the sand. It's fully embracing to find out what it is. I mean seriously this is not easy to deal with but in embracing something like the tool map or the reason for whatever

you are then getting control. And it is too shall pass because you will be conceptualized. But if you push it down, doesn't go any way except there. And the more you push it down, the more becomes a trigger for other things. And eventually this conveys and it's activating all kinds of new patterns of behaviour. And then all of it just gets too much and people feel like I can't do this. It's just so overwhelming. And so that's what I'm trying to help people get out of that state that you actually can manage that. And it's a lifelong process. It's not five steps in boom. It's all gone away in one day.

This is what I'm talking about in the last time. Like you clean your tea, you clean your house, you clean your kitchen after eating, you bathe every day. You mind manage every day because your mind never stops. It goes, wait, you wake up with your mind, you go to bed with your mind. It's always going so we need to manage it. And you get in sending. National security experts are warning. Our aging power grid is more vulnerable than ever. January marked a third time at Power Station. North Carolina was damaged by gunfire. Authorities are saying the attack raises a new level of threat. Authorities are now checking our grid for vulnerabilities.

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You do the bicycle process every day. You're managing your mind every day. I love that it's a process that now I have become, you know, over the years of being involved in neuroscience and developing this and working with so many people. I mean, I couldn't live without this. It's not that my life has now become this perfect rosy picture. Oh, gosh, I still have the tears, the depression, the anxiety, the frustration, the irritation, the anger, but the difference is I recognize it immediately and I can manage it. So in the past,

for example, I would give very upset if someone maybe said something on social media or in a business meeting, or one of my colleagues or something, or one of my colleagues or something or one of my kids or something, I would add our children. And it would affect the rest of the day, like something in the morning would affect, it would permeate and then I would ruminate on the stuff and I would get stuck, not anymore. I don't, that doesn't happen. I'll still get the initial reaction, but I know what to do. I've learned to train myself to how to self-regate it, how to recognize and how to manage it. So it's less and it's shorter. I hate so much more than equal piece. So I use all the time. Every day I'm working on a big thing over cycles of 63 days and the big things are like

you're established up like the traumas and those things. All of us have got them to different, sometimes the massive one you're working on. And so it's got so many feelers that it takes years to unpack in cycles of 63 days. And sometimes it's just, you go through a season where you just really maybe very are getting more reactive than normal. And any pattern has got a root. Any way you show up, always has a root. Whatever is above the ground has got a root. If you see anxiety, depression, or emotions and behaviors in that way,

then instead of being fearful and we can then do the thought detective to go and unwire them and rewire them in our brain. So yes, it's a lifestyle for me. So from the little times where maybe I give it to an argument and there's one example I give on my cleaning up a link on this podcast, I'm going to orange theory with my daughter, you observe my adult kids work with me and my husband. And I would just work up out of sorts and I didn't near a cycle when I got up because I got up late. I rushed you and fasted work out. I didn't prepare my mind, which is something that is really bad. I knew all of that. So here I knew it all.

By the time I got to Orange Theory, which was three minutes away, I got to Tokyo Irritated with my daughter, and we got in an argument, Tokyo my fault because I hadn't neuropsyched, but I recognized it. By the time I got on my treadmill, and this is literally seven minutes later, I did the neuropsycho calm down, core by daughter's eye, and it was over. You know, I did the neuropsycho-com-dark-warpaddor-dys-i and it was over. You know, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And then as I said, the big stuff.

So you just become aware. You become not just aware, but you are aware and beyond. It's beyond mindfulness. We're not just talking mindfulness. That's only brain preparation. Mindfulness just takes you to lack level preparations. It hasn't even entered the work yet. And it takes you that and beyond.. It hasn't even entered the work yet

and takes you that and beyond. And the neuroscience actually shows, because I wanted to see, okay, well, what is mind? What is brain? And what are thoughts? What are emotions? What are memories? Because it's all these words we throw around.

But what are they actually and can you manage them? Do we have agency? And we do. We have total agency over our mind. And we can develop them as a skill. And that's so good to know. So we teach our kids from young. I mean, I taught my kids from young. We have total agency, a raw mind, and we can develop them as a skill. And that's so good to know. So we teach our kids from young.

I mean, I taught my kids from young. They man management skills. I wish I had this in my treaties, the level that they have trained in from young. So that doesn't mean that they don't have depression and anxiety. They get it all, but they know what to do. That's the difference. So they don't just, I'm sad. I need a particular depression. I'm feeling sad because I'm feeling depressed. It's okay. We

allow them to process the emotions. So that's really key to this whole thing. Because when you allow yourself to manage it, you don't get stuck. You don't just keep going around and running circles. You actually manage the process. Does it make sense? Yes, it's so powerful. But Dr. Leap, it's like anything you have to make it a new habit. And like you said, now teaching us that it's 63 powerful, but Dr. Leif, it's like anything you have to make it a new habit. And like you said, now teaching us that it's 63 days, you know, we always thought it was 21 or month, I had heard many times, I had no idea and you thought that if you did something for a month every day, that that would be enough.

How did we get that bad information? Well, that's it. I've been up for this in the book too. It was a plastic surgeon years ago, I think, in the 60s. And your body heals physically in cycles of three weeks. So you get a blister, it takes about three weeks for the immune system to do its thing and stem cells. And this plastic surgeon was talking something around those lines of physical healing

takes these cycles of 21 days. Thoughts are real, they're also physical, and I'll explain that in a moment, but it's not one cycle, it's multiple cycles, we need to change behaviour. So if you have sacserture, you're not going to be healed in 21 days, it's the three week cycle. So if it's a major thing that's wrong with you, you may have multiple cycles of three weeks before it's healed. If it's something like a little simple blister, it's about three weeks.

And if you think of it, like if you have a muscle injury or something, you'll find a pinion on how bad it is. You will see distinct changes in healing in cycles of three weeks. So that's where this thing got distorted and got popular and before you knew it was 21 days is like the key, but it's not because 21 days is enough to identify, deconstruct and reconstruct, but into a new thought. But it's going to be a tiny little thought with no think of the plant that's just newly planted. It's really weak. It can so easily be crushed. That's what happens after three weeks.

So you've done the bulk of the work, but to turn that to give it enough energy to water it every day, to give it enough energy, that's what you have to do with your thoughts. So you have to work for at least another 42 days, and then grow this so it gets sufficient energy because everything's about energy in the brain in the mind. Energy patterns and having enough energy for things to move into consciousness, to influence behavior. So that's why I found in my clinical trials that the experimental group by day 63 the behavior changes occurring. At day 21 there were were hints of change, mostly, or lots of change. We call it gamma plasticity, gamma peak happening in the brain, which means that they could say, I am depressed because of, I'm not depression. So it's major growth,

but they're not applying it yet until they 63. At day 63, so between day, day 22 and 63, you'll start seeing little applications, but there's a consistency in behavior change, where you're asleep, improving, when you're catching yourself much quicker in that certain reaction that you're used to just like automatically fall into. That's the sort of thing, so 63 days to form a habit, and then cycles. Whenever it's a massive thing you're dealing with, like if you've had multiple traumas, as it, you know, but at quite a early stage of your life, the bigger it is, the bigger the tree, the more cycles you potentially will need. Like a tree as roots, you're gonna have roots to the story.

What the current language of today is that the brain and the mind are the same thing. Most people think that the brain and the mind are the same thing, the words used to change a bit. People say my brain, my mind, and they'll think it's, but it's not, they're two-totally different things. The brain is this physical organ, and it's part of the physical body and it's one percent of who you are as a human, which is not much, very important, but it's only one percent

of who you are. So what's the other 99 percent? Your mind. So your mind is your aliveness. So that as I said, the difference between you and I and a daily person is our mind. So on a psychological level, what your mind is, which is what you do at the moment, is you are listening and watching, and I'm giving you information which is coming at you as you hear words and seeing things, but it's electromagnetic light waves and all this physics stuff and sound waves and auditory sound waves and gravitational fields. And so your mind is actually receiving that in that form and then converting it and pushing it through the brain.

So look at it like this. So you and I are surrounded by a cloud. And that cloud isn't there if you did. So this cloud not only is around your body, but it's also in your body. And when I say cloud, it's like to visualize something around the body because people say, what does it look like? There's an electromagnetic field and gravitational fields around your brain and your body and through your brain and your body. That's how we can measure the electrical. We can use

an ECG on the heart because you're measuring mind, moving through your heart, you're measuring that life force. We can use a QEG in the brain, which is what I use in my research, which is showing the energy from the mind and the brain, not the air you did. We can track the blood, electricity in your blood. So everything is around you. If you walk past someone and you just brush past them, you get that, oh, that electrostatic shock. So all of that shows that we have this field around us, and that's mind. Mind on a physics level is we can explain with things like quantum physics and gravitational

fields and the electrostatic effect that Einstein spoke about. And we all have this, you have one eye, one acorn, and you all you can't have mind. But we can enhance each other. That sense, that connection, thinking of someone, that's very much what mind is a social liveness. So on a psychological level we can call it the how you think and how you feel and how you choose. And on a physics level it is this cloud, this gravitational field. Now gravitational fields are very easy to understand because we would be floating if we didn't have gravity. So gravity we're sitting in gravitational fields but we also have a unique gravitational

field around us, and that's how we interact. So, that's your basically your mind, and it's around and through, and it's fast, and it's like never stops. Your brain and your body are limited in the energy they get tired, and that's what we have to sleep. And so, our brain and body can regenerate, because the mind pretty much exhausts the brain and the body, because it's driving all this response to life. So you wake up in the morning and you process the events

and circumstances of life and that's about 8,000 to 10,000 things you're going to be experiencing in a day. And all of those get processed into your brain and into your mind into your brain as these trees. So these are made of protein. So literally what you're seeing in hearing now is being processed through this field, which is you're thinking for in choosing and being pushed into your brain, your brain is responding electrically, electrometically, chemically and genetically and building my words into

trees. So right now you and the listeners are changing the structure of your brain, which is newer gastricity. The brain can change through the mind in response to what I'm saying. So you've already changed your brain, your brain has grown in branches. As a tree has got roots and branches, so do these thoughts have roots and branches. That's why I always use the tree analogy. They literally look like trees in the brain with thoughts. So you think, see, then choose and you build a thought. The thought you we are all building at the moment is the thought about mind, brain, mental health,

cleaning up your mental list, whatever you've called it, like you have an aptitude of third tree, you have a name of a thought. So the name of the thought is mental health, let's say. And now as I'm talking, all the information I'm giving you is the roots, it's the source. And then the tree trunk and the branches are all the your interpretation of what I'm saying, which is unique for everyone. So it's the same information that you're giving, but your interpretation will be completely different for each person. So, and that's very important. So it's that uniqueness and humanity that we see.

Now these roots and branches are memories. So there's another distinction. The brain is resting in your head. The mind is this field around you and this aliveness and the stink of field choose. The mind thinks stills and chooses in response to the experiences of life and build thoughts, thoughts of the trees, trees are made of memories. Psycho-trees made of branches, thoughts are made of memories. So these are the memories. So this one thought that we're building now of mental health has got by the end of this discussion you're going to have at least 2,000 roots, at least because that's about as many facts, if not more, but actually probably given you,

depending on how long we talk and how much information I give, it's up to 4,000, 5000 pieces of information I've given you. So that's in your route, and your interpretation will be over here. This is what you think, Phil, and choose about what you've heard. Now, this collectively is how you show up. So when you talk about this to maybe your friend or your partner, whatever, your kids or whatever, you are going to be talking from your interpretation of this. So now you take this and then let's say you go read my book, you're going to bring more on me.

So one thought, it can have thousands of memories. And the memories are data and emotions, because you think, feel and choose. So there's all these choices and these emotions and this data. So they rich and massively like they're huge. And that's why they're overwhelming. All they make you so you know, you through call something that's got so much stuff in it. You know, and it's great, but it's healthy because that's what our brand and body are wired for. But let's now take the toxic version and look at the toxic roots. So here now let's say that this is a multiple, a bullying boss who's just I happen to get someone who asks you that question just recently in the live. So it's actually very appropriate terrible trauma from a boss for years. They just couldn't get out of it because they

needed the money. Everyone suffered from that particular boss and it was with this particular person and they had multiple Experiences daily so that this roots just year off day off today week off two week month off the month year off two year Both have so much toxicity and trauma so that's the source the roots the experience Then that was the interpretation the tree trunk's interpretation into the branches Which is then how they think feel and choose about the situation. Works terrible. I'm not good enough. Impostor syndrome. Frustrated. I have to people please. Whatever. I mean, it's like I'm useless. I'm not really good enough. I hate this. I'm so unhappy. And that

will sharpen your life as impactions of depression, anxiety, overwhelm, frustration, anger. It will come out in your relationships because this isn't isolated to the work environment, it's going to pull over into your relationships and home immediately, it's going to hit your friendships, it's going to hit your time that you spend on yourself to do self-care because this is just consuming. So that has to be dealt with, that you can't get rid of this with a drug, an antisaquatic or an antidepressant or a combination where antianxiety may be, for a while, you'll have a bit of temporary relief because those are

basically anaesthetics, so they're just numbing your brain and they psychoactive. So they do this numbing psychoactive thing in your brain, but that's not very good for your brain long term. Short term, you know, like for maybe a very short term, it may get you through like a few moments or a few days, but this shouldn't be, I'll be talking days. These things shouldn't be taken for weeks, they're not chronic medications, they shouldn't be taken for weeks on end. And all the research shows that the people are innocently not knowing and the doctors are giving them the stuff and they try to, because the doctors don't know what's going on.

You know, and this, because the scientists are presenting the information, the drug companies, and I mean, I don't want to go into a whole conspiracy theory, because this isn't conspiracy. This is pure science. There are thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of articles. It's not hundreds of thousands. Scientific journal articles published explaining how these drugs are not the answer. They're damaging the brain. They're not any more effective than placebo, which means no drug.

Procebe means that you didn't get the drug. In fact, they cause more long term effects. They have an initial temporary effect because they make you feel okay. And that generally the drug trials are only about three to six weeks on average, about six weeks, which is definitely not enough time to, you know, after the big stuff happens after that. And then they say, oh, look, there was so much more effect, but if you analyze the statistics, there weren't more effect than the placebo.

They've been cooking the box. So there's a massive archive of scientific world about this. And there's a huge, and it's going to change because good science will win because truth always does eventually win over. And there's such a noise happening now that it will spill over into the public arena. But in the meantime, I don't want people suffering if they don't have to. That's why I'm trying to bring this message through. So essentially what we need to do is recognize it.

I'm showing up with repeated depression or high levels of anxiety or complete burnout and overwhelm. First of all, say to yourself, it's okay. There's a reason. Embrace it. Don't be frightened of it. See it as a helpful messenger. And that in itself creates the most phenomenal change in your body.

If you're showing up with anxiety and depression and thinking, oh, this is terrible. Like example you gave, like this is so bad. My sister sees someone. Is there something wrong with me? You know, that fear that went with that. As you experience that 1400 neurophysiological responses in your body would have worked against you instead of for you. You would have created a vulnerability in your body that would have increased your vulnerability to getting any kind of disease by 35 to 98%. Now I don't know which disease, I don't know what level of vulnerability, all I know is that if we are not designed for that, it threatens our survival. So any unmanaged

toxicity, whether it's a virus virus like the COVID virus, or whether it's a toxic thought, because the brain doesn't distinguish between a COVID virus, for example, and a toxic tumor. They are physical structures in the brain and the body. Sure, the COVID virus looks different to this, but it's still a toxic invasion. The brain isn't built for this. These proteins are all distorted and they're chemically imbalanced, so we're wired for survival. So here, now our brain and our body's immune system is saying, threat, let's send out the telomps, sites and the bilumps, sites and the macrophages,

now there's inflammation, but you're not dealing with it so the inflammation gets worse. And then you have autoimmune and then it cascades into your heart and your body. And then people wonder why they are getting all these lifestyle diseases that I mentioned in the beginning. And people are dying younger because we're not teaching people how to create environments in their brain and their body that are managed.

So here, now, let's take that situation that you were in. And now you say, okay, well, yeah, geez, it's reasonable. I mean, it's okay to feel depression and anxiety. I've had X1Z, this isolation is driving me crazy. I'm stuck at home. Listen to this. Listen to this. So this is a normal response.

So as soon as you do that, instead of those 1400 neurophysiological responses working against you, they work for you. You would immediately have more blood pumping from your heart because the blood vessels run to your heart will dilate and you'll have more blood flowing oxygen flowing to your brain. Immediately your cognitive flexibility changes. Your impulsivity drops, your impossibility drops, your ability to be more creative increases.

All the things you need to manage any situation, we need all those kind of skills. I started breathing deeper when I just heard you say that, Dr. Leibh, I mean, that just made me a sense of calm, just immediately. You mean, it's an immediate change. So now you haven't even fixed this yet, but because you've actually made the decision to

see this as a helpful messenger, and you're mentally starting to prepare yourself that, okay, this is going to be hard work. I'm still going to cry. I'm still going to feel depressed, but I'm going to find out why, and I'm going to make it work for me and not against me. You should know what that means already. That's the best kind of notification. That's the sound of another sale on Shopify and the moment another business dream becomes a reality.

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If that's your thing, to find your perfect Corolla, visit your local Toyota dealer or Toyota.com today. Toyota, let's go places, see packages and options at Toyota.com for future availability. And that's how brilliant we are. We can be a thought detector. We can go from the emotional and physical and behavioral warning signals right down to

the root and change it around. Now we know that your initial feeling there was something to do with COVID. So we kind of know the root. We know that this is depression from COVID, that the immediately people are thinking, okay, is it an illness in my brain? No, it's not an illness. You need to go and really process what's happened. You need to go and grab your emotional warning signals, your physical warning signals, the behavioural warning signals, and what are they and gather those

and the perspective warning signals. And it works through a process of unpacking why you have those and what could you do about them? What's the antidote? What's the solution? And you're not going to find it in one day. You're going to take at least 21 days to do that, to deconstruct and reconstruct the process. And once you've done that, it doesn't mean that you're going to cope beautifully in that situation. It means you've got a baby tree. Now you have to practice applying that on a day-to-day basis. So you've got to really practice like that little tree is tiny. To do that deconstruction, reconstruction process from day one to 21, you use the Neurocycle which is five steps every day for about 15 to 45 minutes. It's not much work.

You can do less than 15 minutes. The heavier the problem, the more time you take, but you never go beyond 45 minutes. And you do that for 21 days. So that's where the 21 days comes in the three weeks. It's the first part and you do that for 21 days. So that's where the 21 days comes in the three weeks. That's the first part. And you'll end up taking the energy from this and getting this, but it's tiny. Then from day 22 to 63, you just do step. You're just gonna do the footstep, one step. You do the last step, step number five.

And just to keep it in your conscious awareness, but at that point, you want to do that because you want to be practicing using it in your life. So it's basically a way of keeping it conscious, giving it enough energy because all your thoughts in your brain, you've got trillions, you don't have two, you have trillions. Mostly green, mostly healthy, but we have these are all not tough experiences. The big tour was a little tour was a me, a bad habits and toxic habits and things we just haven't dealt with.

Mostly it's these. So when we start dealing with these, they're trillions and trillions of these. So there's a lot of competition, whatever you think about the most, whatever you pay the most attention to has the most energy. So that's what's going to pop from what we call a non-conscious mind. We're all these trees. Imagine a mass of forests that just goes on forever and ever. That's what our minds look like. That's what the brain and the mind look like. So if you don't grow this thing, this thing will come back or something else that you haven't dealt with will overtake this. And this will just sit there, we can small and not impact your behavior. And that's why people feel stuck. They do the work or do a certain amount of work. And they

know they've done it. Like you'll have people saying, I know what to do. Yes, here it is. But I don't know how to apply it because you haven't gone long enough. It's very systematic and it's not your fault. No one taught you who's teaching this stuff. We're getting told drink, green juices, go work out at the gym. I mean, I'm being facetious now and I do all of that. I do my faster work cuts. I eat 10 food. I do the whole thing.

But it's all of that's driven by mind. And just the other day I was doing a live and I actually sprained to people that if I go do my work art and I want to just get it over and done with, I'm going to lose up to 80% of the benefit of the workout. Why? Because it's driven by mind. My ability, my body to benefit from getting going to Orange cereal, going to Hode Yoga or eating that 10 meal is controlled by my mind. My mind controls my digestive system, all of it. So if you eat in that 10 food but you're sitting there totally in that overwhelmed state from work and not managing it, I'm not saying solving it. Listen to what I'm saying, managing it. So you're going through the

process because you're always going to be going through the process, but just to be a fact that you are actually embracing processing and reconceptualizing an in that process, you then can digest the food. If not, you're going to lose up to 80% of that nutrition. For example, pancreas is a huge part of assimilating nutrients from food, plays a huge role. And if you are totally toxic and stressed or not managing your mind, it's not managing your mind, it's much less threatening. Those 20 different neuropeptiles that your pancreas needs to secrete for you to assimilate

the nutrition from that great tea meal that you're eating, they're not going to work. So you're just not going to get that same assimilation. That's not enough. It's not enough. The wellness movement is fantastic because it's made us aware and it's teaching us more autonomy and I'm totally for it. But I'm very concerned about it too. And I talk about that in the book because it kind of is, well, you haven't drunk enough green juices or you haven't done enough affirmations or you haven't done, and then it's all about you again. And then you've broken. We're all a mess.

But it's not because I haven't tried some extrinsic thing. It's because I'm actually a human experiencing life and I need help managing it. It's so much less definitive. It's not, and there's five steps. Neurocycle is five steps, but it's not a technique. It's a system to get yourself regulation skills to the point where you can self-regulate literally every 10 seconds. That's what the science shows. When you're awake, you can literally self-regulate yourself every 10 seconds

and that's what the neuropsycho trains you to do. It trains you to be so self-regulated that you can watch yourself write that email and you can correct your reactions. You can watch yourself in that argument and you can pull back and you can self-create. You can watch yourself write that email and you can correct your reactions. You can watch yourself in that argument and you can pull back and you can self-create. You can watch yourself in that argument and not self-create and get angry and mad and you can watch yourself going downhill and you can bring yourself back.

So in other words, it's this constant self-regulation which we're not teaching. We've become so reactive, but we actually respond as we're not we're not reactors, humans are not reactors, we respond as but if you don't train that skill, you become a reactor. And that's when the decisions become the wrong decisions and the results are toxic, and then you get that spiral happening. And so when I talk about the 81%, this is what I'm talking about. When you mind manage, this is what you're doing. It's realistic. When you say you're not frightened, you understand it because there's a reason. So you give yourself the grace to embrace it, to see it as a help for

messenger. It's so much better than thinking, I feel sad again, I feel so guilty now, but I've got guilt, shame and sadness. And then people are irritated because you're not irritated that yourself. So your guilty, shame, sadness and you're irritable. And then everyone's irritable back and now you're arguing. I mean, it just goes no way. Can't exaggerating, but I mean, sometimes that's the case. No, but we see that it's like a vicious cycle that you see happen with one thing goes wrong and then you start getting negative and then you bump into somebody else

and then you yell at them, it just takes off from there. It does. And then we do things. You all do things. You all say things, we regret people, do things, we regret. I mean, I'm a mom of four and I think I'm a great parent, but I know that I've created a tool in my kids life, like my mother didn't mind, like every mother, these no mother,

there's no father that hasn't unintentionally done something or said something because it's come through. And here we said beating ourselves to death as parents, thinking, but you can't do anything if you guilty because guilty will hold you back and you'll react and create it to your child. So I'm in the guilt and say, okay, I feel really bad about this, but I'm not going to make that guilt work for me. I'm not going to sit there in the guilt and think, oh, how am I going to do this? You say, okay, this was terrible. Let me hear it. I'm sorry, what did I do? Okay, now let's fix this. How can we fix this together? So you hear it, you help put child process through that pain.

So you can't change it, but you can change it. You can't change what you did in the past because it's finished, but you can change the impact. You can change how you wanted to play out into the future. That's not what we've been taught. So people are going into adulthood and they're kind of blaming their parents. And we're not going to end because they're going to blame their parents. You can't play the blame game.

You can't play the victim card. And we't play the victim part and we are. We've been told to be victims. We're not victims. We're survivors. And I even say that with someone who's gone through sexual abuse, if you see yourself as a victim that will keep you chained and I'm not saying that what happened was right. Don't get me wrong. That was horrific and those people deserve to be castrated and whatever. Whoever heard heard, I mean, I can be really, I'm a strong word about that, but what I'm saying is that if you see yourself as the victim, you stay connected to your victimizer, that if you see yourself as I've survived that, that was wrong. That was so, so wrong. But I've survived that, you've reconceptualized it, because now you own it, they do not own you, they the prisoners, not you anymore.

Wow, that is so powerful doctors. If I love that and so empowering. You see, we've got agency, that's why I talk about the path 13 powerment. It's been able to look at that and say, you know, that person did that to me, that child was abused by that parent or that child, that boss bullied that person. But if you see yourself as a victim of that boss, they are still controlling you. But if you see yourself as, okay, I've survived that.

I actually got broken from it. I'm shattered. I mean, all over the floor, when pieces, and I'm depressed, it's here, and things are anxious, and life sucks, and I hate life. But I am not a victim, I survived it. So now I'm gonna build the pieces together. I'm going to rebuild my life.

That's the shift. When you make that choice, people often ask you, because I work so much with trauma, work with more trauma people in the wonder after the genocide, I've worked in a part-taste of Africa for years, through the whole of part-taste trauma, work with sex, sex, traffic victims, et cetera. And I work with people with severe damage,

automatic brain injuries, and all that separates always got the emotional component. And people always say, where severe damage, automatic brain injuries and all that separates, I always got the emotional component. And people always say, where is the key? And even in my own life, I think in my own life as well, the key to where people make that shift when people realize that they have agency. And when you and agency means I actually can choose to decide what I want to do with that. And I choose to see that anxiety not as some brain disease or I see that as

a signal telling me about this and then you use that to find this to talk detective work which is the neuropsychal. And then you see, okay, well, I survived that. It was just, I'm a, and then that person, because we're not wired to do this kind of, people are not wired to hurt each other. We're wired for love. That's survival. Our whole brain and bodies actually wired for love. The optimism bias, which everyone's heard about, and people have heard about the negativity bias. There's a very, very, very wrong teaching out there in the media and in common language

that we don't need to negative, humans are drawn to the negative. So we negative or toxic or evil. No, we are not. We're wired for love. There isn't a single protein or structure that builds back as a cell structure, organ, energy way that is designed for toxicity, because all of that treatment is survival. The men that you have to have toxicity in your body, you've changed the environment and you're

in threat to survival mode. So we redesign for survival. So we're not drawn to the negative because we are evil because that will wreck us. We're drawn to the negative because it's created an imbalance. We're drawn to it to fix it. Totally different perspective. You see, because that will wreck us, we don't the negative because it's created an imbalance. We don't want it to fix it. Totally different perspective. You see, so that's why I say, when you see yourself as a survivor, you're taking the balance, the imbalance out

and you're taking agency back. And yes, you're gonna have years of work to work on that trauma, but that's what you can do. You can then work, you can choose to take how you want that to play out into your future. So that's the sort of thinking that I'm trying to teach in the book. And it's very practical.

I mean, it's science there, but it's also very hard to in the book. It is. It's very hard to give great examples. Where can everyone find cleaning up your mental mat? Wherever books are sold, they can get it, and then also it'll be on our site like in the next 24 hours of book, but on Saturday, we either books are sold and they can find out anything they want to about what I do, Dr. Caroline Leif, which is all my social media handles, and we've pages

DrLeif.com. And my, my podcast is also co-chaining up the mail from Ace. Oh my gosh, your information is so helpful, so empowering, and so practical. And I just want to say thank you for all the work that you're doing to help everyone. And it comes through so clear how passionate you are and all the good you're doing. I appreciate you so much. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your support and understanding

and getting the message. It's so hopeful that we can actually process all of us together, not just get stuck in a box and push in a corner. The humans can connect and we can really go through our stuff and not feel guilty about it. Oh, it's such a beautiful thing. That is the wonderful thing about this time right now. It's been goodness for the technology and the power that is put in people's hands. So I'm super, super grateful for you. I'll include your all the links in the show notes and thank you so much, Dr. Lee, wishing you the best and hoping everybody picks up this book

because everyone needs it. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It was a lovely meeting. You thank you. Thank you for your great questions. Thank you. I'm going to make a move again.

I decided to change that time and the light fell out. I couldn't be more excited than more. Once you're getting here, start learning and growing. And inevitably something will happen. No one sixties alone. You don't stop and growing and inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while. You can miss it. I'm on this journey with me.

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