Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - Welcome To Your FIRST Day At Harvard! Join My Class & Learn How To Get The BEST Deal Every Time with Chris Voss Episode 113

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

Have you ever wondered what it was like to be in a Harvard class? Now you don’t have to! Get a behind the scenes look into my classroom and join in on this ultra special lecture. Today we bring in world-renowned negotiation expert, Chris Voss, to speak to us about the true power of the “no oriented question”, what questions to ask, and the lies we can put to bed about sealing the deal. That’s right! One of my all time favorite guests, former FBI hostage negotiator, and absolute powerhouse of sales, is here to lay down some serious knowledge on how to negotiate like your LIFE depends on it! Do not miss out on this opportunity! Click play!   About The Guest: Chris Voss is the CEO & Founder of The Black Swan Group Ltd. He has used his many years of experience in international crisis and high-stakes negotiations to develop a unique program and team that applies these globally proven techniques to the business world.   Prior to 2008, Chris was the lead international kidnapping negotiator for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as well as the FBI’s hostage negotiation representative for the National Security Council’s Hostage Working Group. During his government career, he also represented the U.S. Government at two international conferences sponsored by the G-8 as an expert in kidnapping. Prior to becoming the FBI lead international kidnapping negotiator, Christopher served as the lead Crisis Negotiator for the New York City Division of the FBI. Christopher was a member of the New York City Joint Terrorist Task Force for 14 years.    Chris has taught business negotiation in the MBA program as an adjunct professor at University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business and at Georgetown University’s McDonough School of Business. He has taught business negotiation at Harvard University, guest lectured at The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University, The IMD Business School in Lausanne, Switzerland and The Goethe School of Business in Frankfurt, Germany. Since 2009 Christopher has also worked with Insite Security as their Managing Director of the Kidnapping Resolution Practice.   Finding Chris Voss: Website: www.blackswanltd.com Subscribe to the newsletter here Buy his book: Never Split the Difference Twitter: @VossNegotiation  Instagram: @thefbinegotiator   To inquire about my coaching program opportunity visit https://mentorship.heathermonahan.com/    Review this podcast on Apple Podcast using this LINK and when you DM me the screen shot, I buy you my $299 video course as a thank you!    My book Confidence Creator is available now! get it right HERE   If you are looking for more tips you can download my free E-book at my website and thank you! https://heathermonahan.com    *If you'd like to ask a question and be featured during the wrap up segment of Creating Confidence, contact Heather Monahan directly through her website and don’t forget to subscribe to the mailing list so you don’t skip a beat to all things Confidence Creating!     See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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In a minute, you've got it there now, you're in a negotiation. Time is a commodity. Most people think they're only in a negotiation if money becomes involved. By then, you've been in a negotiation for a while. You didn't even know it. We had Swat teams way before we had a hostage to go, Shaders. You know, we did this whole projection bias thing. We don't want to die.

Therefore, they don't want to die. So, all we got to do is show up around the house and turn right into kill them. And now come out because we don't want to die. Therefore, they don't want to die. So what we got to do is show up around the house and turn right into killing them. And they'll come out because we don't want to die. Therefore, they don't want to die. And people were getting killed right and left. Why? Because in the business world, people

would die to preserve their autonomy. And in the hostage negotiation, where we fend that out to be literally be true. I'm on this journey with me. Each week, when you join me, you are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity and set you up for better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close time.

Hi, and welcome back. I'm so excited you're here today. Okay, a lot of people have asked me about teaching at Harvard. And today, I'm going to take you into one of our classes. This is actually a class that we just had. And I'm super excited because not only do you get to see or hear what it's like being in class at Harvard, which I think is super exciting, but you also get to hear from one of my absolute favorite guests, dear friend, amazing human being and just complete all star. I'm so excited

to let you know that we've got Chris Boss yet again live and coming at you live from Harvard. He is the best and you are going to love it. Get ready. You're coming behind the scenes with me right now. So, everyone, I mean, this man needs no introduction, by the way. Chris is known as the master negotiator, a title earned throughout his time serving as the lead crisis negotiator for the New York City Division of the FBI, and then as the lead international kidnapping negotiator for the FBI, where he helped develop the skills still used today across FBI hostage negotiators. He proceeded to teach business negotiation at USC,

Georgetown and Harvard Business School. In 2008, Chris founded the Black Swan Group, which specializes in teaching you how to never leave money on the table by using hostage negotiation techniques. In May 2016, he published the National Best, so this book is bomb. If you haven't read it yet, you have to never split the difference negotiation as if your life depended on it

to teach people everywhere how to apply these life changing, hostage negotiation techniques in their daily lives. He is proficient in negotiating with real terrorists, giving him plenty of context to help in the corporate world, where companies seem to get legally taken hostage all the time. Chris, thank you so, so much. We are so appreciative that you're here today. Yeah, it's my pleasure. I'm really happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I just did a presentation last week, sort of top 10 negotiation lines and what's behind them. So I'll go into that in a second. But you know, the question always

comes up what's the difference between negotiation and sales and I realized it'd been staring me in a face for a long time because we would contend. I would contend that any time the words I want or I need or in your brain are coming across your lips, your inner negotiation. I want a cup of coffee. I need directions. I want a better seat in the restaurant. I want a free upgrade to the suite in the hotel. You know, and if there's any doubt, I don't know if you've seen me talk about this before, whether or not you're in a negotiation

when you order cup of coffee. I met a guy several years ago who started this global phenomenon he referred to as secrets, which was sending you secrets anonymously. I'll share them with the world, somebody struggling with the same thing you're struggling with. You know, all the people need to know that.

And he said, he received a brand new in the wrapper coffee cup from Starbucks with a note that said, I give D-Caf to people who are mean to me. And I told that story enough times and I had people then who've been waiters or waitresses in restaurants say, yeah, we had a customer at night who was a real jerk, and they had a D.C.F. after dinner.

We brought him regular coffee. So, implementation is where the negotiation is, right? So then sales to negotiation. Sales is trying to get the words I want, I need into somebody's head. In a minute, you've got it there, now you're in a negotiation. So there's a big difference there,

maybe not a lot of big moments. And we're also plight of marketing. Marketing is one, one of the many sales is one to one. But once I want or I need or in somebody's head, you're in a negotiation. We're also applied to marketing. Marketing is one. One of the many sales is one to one. But once I want or I need or in somebody's head, you know, you're in a negotiation. And I'll fire this question out to the group. What's the commodity that's at stake in every negotiation? Time. Exactly. Time. If you're trying to get somebody to take an action to do something,

they even think something. It requires their time. So time is a commodity. Most people think they're only in a negotiation if money becomes involved. By then, you've been in a negotiation for a while. You didn't even know it. All right. So, top 10 lines. First one is now a bad time to talk.

And that's a no-waring to question. The whole evolution of the no-waring to questions. Started where Jim Kampfork started with no. I remember reading that about 2002. And Kamp's whole contention, not that you got people to say no, but that letting him know at the front that it was okay to say no. It preserved the air autonomy. That was the first time that I was a thousand percent convinced that hostage negotiation applied to business negotiation.

Because here Kampfork wrote this real successful business book back in 2002, which crushed it. It was world changing. So you just, you know, stop trying to get people to say, yes, stop trying to get them. It's okay if they say yes, but tell them right up front, it's okay if they say no. He said that preserves their autonomy. And he says, people will die over their autonomy, die for it. And I thought, yeah, exactly.

That's why we got hostage to go, shaters. We had swat teams way before we had hostage to go, shaters. You know, we did this old projection bias thing. We don't want to die. Therefore, they don't want to die. So what we got to do is show up, surround the house, surround, and turn it into kill them. And now come out, because we don't want to die.

Therefore, they don't want to die. And people were getting killed right and left. Why? Because as camp would say in a business world, people would die to preserve their autonomy. And in the hostage negotiation world, we found out that out to be literally be true. So I thought, why is dudes on to something?

But he was just let him know. It's OK to say no. And then try to get him to agree. He called it preserving the right to veto. I mean, Jim sort of wrote stuff as he thought, and he'd been an Air Force pilot and a football player and a football coach and a salesman. So, his book was a mishmash of all that kind of thinking.

And he once he thought of something when he was fishing. And so he called it a strip line because he was bone-trishing and you had to put a knife on the line and strip stuff off of it. So, wow, you know, curdewing while he was fishing, so it was a strip line. So, you know, I think it was a mess, but it was really good stuff overall. So then, you know, we started talking about it internally and I remember talking with Marty Evelseiser, who was a female hostage, FBI

hostage, he got shot in charge of the Pittsburgh Division of the FBI's negotiation day. And Marty was, let me tell you something I did. I sound similar. I want to know if it's what you're talking about. So Marty was so well loved by the Pittsburgh police department at Pittsburgh that they invited her to come in and sit on their selection board. For hostage and go-shaders in a police department. Now this is unheard of. One of the few things that the media tends to get right about law enforcement, the FBI, is pretty much the FBI doesn't get along with local law enforcement. We have a tendency to just not get along. Some of it's our fault, some of it's their fault. There's no shortage of fault on any side of an issue, but that's really true. So for the Pittsburgh Police Department, to openly ask Marty come in and sit on their selection board is monstrous. I mean, it's

almost unprecedented community collaboration. And it made her look really good. And it made Pittsburgh FBI look really good. And it embarrassed her supervisor because he was a bureaucratic pencil neck jerk. And instead of up in his game, he just wanted to diminish her. So she finds out that she's got a meeting schedule with her immediate supervisor. And she checks with the secretary and says,

you know, why am I meeting with Joe Schmuck? And the secretary says is because he's going to relieve you of your duties from the negotiation team. He's planning on firing you from the team. The team is an extra quote extracurricular activity. It's an additional duty. She has a day job, if you will, as an investigator. He's got the authority to do this at will. He can just say, you know, she belongs to me. She's not paying attention to her regular duties in the story. Nobody can say anything. And so she walks into his office knowing that her head's on a chopping block in terms of the negotiation team.

And she says to him, a no-oriented question that I would never, ever have had the courage to ask. And most people are really scared of these until they understand how powerful they are. She says to him, do you want the FBI to be embarrassed? Now, that sounds like the biggest set up question possible. Like I imagine her supervisor bursting into flames and screaming at her over this. Because that's what Armigolah does to us. That imagines new stuff scares the hell out of us.

But it's an order to question. So it doesn't. It always works always. And he and he just sits back and goes, no, and and a staples like this, which John, I hope you don't do this because this is what somebody does when they feel large and in charge. Like when somebody does this, they really feeling really good about themselves in the moment, really good. And he sits back and he steeples and he goes, no.

And she follows it up with the perfect question, which is deference. There's great power and deference. If you think negotiation is about power, you will leave money on the table. She says, what do you want me to do? And she says, you know, just don't let this stuff interfere in your investigations. Now get out of my office, which means she kept her job. So she tells me the story and she says, is that what I did? Did I do the start with no thing?

I go, no. You did something a lot better. I don't know what the hell it is, but we're gonna figure it out. And we start experimenting with this no-oriented stuff. And by then, now I'm teaching at Georgetown, I start working into the teaching and people or dropping it in right and left and using it

and just game changing. And so we go with, it's now a bad time to talk instead of, have you got a few minutes to talk, which is yes oriented. And if you haven't intentionally gotten out of asking yes questions, you're probably yes addict. And yes is always used to trap people. And every one of you have been trapped by yes at some point in time and

you haven't forgotten it and so you instantly every person on the planet having been trapped by this yes momentum crap or this yes nonsense or mere agreement because it's sometimes known and it's something even Robert Childeini and he and I both spoke at the same event last week, and I know Childeini. Childeini even thinks this stuff is okay. But somebody tricked you with it. Like my son still has a memory

when somebody talked him out of his favorite baseball cards at age eight using this yes crap nonsense. Everybody's been stung by it. So even though you might not be trying to trap people with yes, somebody else has trapped them. Somebody else has trapped you. So when a voice on the other end of the phone calls and says, if you got a few minutes to talk, your first instinct is like, my God, how long is a few minutes?

What do you want to talk about? How do I get out of this? What if I want to talk to you, but I don't want to talk about what you want to talk about? I mean, it goes on and on and on and on. And I could go on for the next hour about how bad this is, but you got to start looking at it yourself. So the complete opposite is now bad time to talk. You'd be shocked.

There's only one or two answers you get from us now bad time to talk. They'll hesitate and they'll go, no, no, no, it's never a bad time to talk to you. What do you got? And you've got their complete undefided attention for about seven to ten seconds, which doesn't relieve you of the other obligations, but you just instead of them saying to themselves, oh my God, how long is it a few minutes? How do we get off the phone? All the stuff, you get their attention instantly. The other reaction is they go, yeah, it is as a matter of fact, it is a bad time. But I could talk tomorrow or two, which now you just got to schedule a appointment for

their undivided attention, which is what you want in the first place. And I've seen some chatter on LinkedIn that just if I thought, if you thought about what you wrote, you have to be astonished. On LinkedIn, once I saw this ongoing conversation criticizing, it's now a bad time to talk. And somebody wrote in, what if they say, yes, you don't want them to say, you don't want to give them the chance to say, yes to that. And I thought, if they said yes to that, do you really want to be talking to them?

I mean, if it's, it's really, really hard for people to say yes because of this whole yes-momentum nonsense. Like sometimes I can get you to say no when you should say yes because it would be in your best interest to say yes. But so you're so worried about it, you won't do it. Like if sometimes I've seen negotiations where one person said, did you take the stuttgart analysis into account in your pricing? I just made that up. They should not deny that. If they had said yes to that, they'd been in a better position, but they said no, when

the person asking them knew that they didn't. If they would have said yes, they could have said yes, we took it into account and it completely justifies our price. And it completely justifies how we got there. But since it's so hard to say yes, even when someone's best interest that say yes, like if I don't like you, I'm gonna start asking you questions you should say yes to just so I can torture you.

Because then you're gonna go like, I'm gonna run, I mean'm gonna do that on purpose sometimes when somebody really annoys me. That's how hard it is. That's what people go through just to say yes to stuff. So it's now a bad time to talk. You should, first of all, it's good practice. Secondly, you get nothing at stake and it's a way for you to start road testing or warranted questions to see if it's any good. And then follow it up on, we go with, have you given up on X? And is it a ridiculous idea? Because I never say it's a good idea. I say is it a ridiculous, is it a ridiculous idea? And have you given up on when we really

started to expand or into questions? When my students at Georgetown was doing, he was with the Republican fundraising committee in a second Obama election, and where he worked for them, they were dialing for dollars at night. Calling potential donors, asking three questions, ask for the commitment, which is the yes momentum.

Ask for three yeses in a row, and they gotta say yes to your final ask, because otherwise they're violating their own personal consistency and that's why it works. That's what the crap is behind that theory. So the vast majority of sales teams do it, vast majority of fundraising teams do it. Everybody does it because it's called the Yes Momentum and it sounds really good to you and it's just really bad for the other side.

But since it sounds good to you, you want to do it. Yeah, I won't want to make them. I want HS to be a micro agreement that acts as a tie down where they have to give me the money at the end. They have to. Otherwise, it's a violation of what child Danny calls consistency and they can't do it. They'll just say yes because child Danny said they would.

So he goes to their fundraising committee that night and changes all the yes questions and no questions. And the first yes question was, would you like to see the Republicans back in a White House in November? And he changed it to, have you given up on taking the White House back in November? And he ran the yes script alongside the no script, side by side, and the no script got a 23% higher donation rate that night. And so the bosses and the managers came in the morning and he proudly showed the results of his experiment that showed that no-want to questions got more money and they looked at him and said, that was a fluke. That's not how we do things. Don't

ever do that again or we'll fire you. How stupid is that, right? But that's what happened. And that's why, have you given up on is the number one way to restart a conversation where someone has ghosting you? And I guarantee you they will respond within three to five minutes. And so there's two things to remember. It's context-driven, which means if you haven't started that been in the conversation with them for a while, they can't have given up on it because they never got started. And I see a lot of people, you know, somebody tries to use my skills on me. I don't mind unless they're trying to cheat me. And if the opening line to me is, have you given up on when it's their opening line?

I immediately don't trust them. And just to screw with them, I answer, yes. Make their head explode. Teach them a lesson. Now, the other thing to know about that, again, context. People start stop communicating with you for only one reason. And that reason has two contributing factors. And the reason is communicating with you is doing them no good. Because if it was doing them some good, they'd still be communicating with you. So they go dark on you or they ghost you. Because talking to you is useless. Now, it would be useless for one of two reasons. And the first reason is you're not listening. And if you're not listening, why should they talk to you?

You deserve to be ghosted. So there's a really good chance that if you restart the conversation with, have you given up on and you go back to the communication that you had with them before, there's a saying, the system you are employing is perfectly designed to give you the outcome that you achieved.

Well, if they stop talking to you, you probably brought it on yourself. And if you go back to that, then you deserve to be ghosted. So you have to review your communication up to that point. You were probably pitching. You're probably making an argument. You're probably making your case. You're probably explaining. And Reagan said, if you're explaining, you're losing, and they probably have been indicating

to you for a while that you weren't listening and you didn't pay attention to that either. So I promise you that to have you given up on, actually, it doesn't literally work every time. It literally misfires about one time and a thousand. And that's a higher batting average than you will get anywhere else with anything else you track. Nothing is guaranteed. But I was advising a woman a couple of years ago that was pitching an investment product to one of the assistant coaches for the Raiders when they were in Oakland. She had a lot of professional football connections. And I said, sentiment, she said, he's not getting back to me. I said, sentiment text, have you given up all making the investment in my company? I promise you, he's going to respond to three to five minutes.

And he did. And then she went back to the same pitch that turned him off in a first place. And that was the last time she ever heard from the guy. I said, there were two reasons. The other reason talking to you isn't doing them any good, is on their side of the table, they've lost the ability to get anything done and they're embarrassed and most people would rather die than be embarrassed. I mean literally that's why the phrase I die of embarrassment comes from. So they're not going to tell you that because it's embarrassing.

That's why they're not getting back to you. The one time we used this we were coaching a company that was in the middle of a negotiation. They'd actually not in the middle of a negotiation. They'd finished it. They were providing a health product to Coca-Cola. And the only thing that remained was getting the document signed, and that my client says, we've got to get to signed by the end of the calendar year. Otherwise, they're in a new calendar year. The deal falls off the table.

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So I go, awesome. Send the guy to Texas, it says, have you given up on getting a contract signed by the end of the calendar year? I guarantee he's gonna respond within three to five minutes. Since the text and nothing, nothing, no response. And he gets back to me and he says, it didn't work.

I go, I actually did work. The answer is yes. And he gets back to me and says, it didn't work. I go, I actually did work. The answer is yes. And he's embarrassed to tell you. And he goes, oh, okay. So we got it. He said, but this is, you know, he's got to sign his contract. We talked it through. It's going to hurt him if he doesn't sign it. And I said, well, I, I can tell you what's going on on the other side. He's got problems inside. And he's probably fighting for his professional career And so his choice is if he doesn't sign your deal his hang-its cut off if he does sign it He gets shot in the head and it kills him

So just the fact that it's gonna hurt him and enough because the dude is fighting for his life So now you know that you're smarter than you were before You don't always get the answer you want, but when you go from uncertainty to certainty, you're always smarter. So send this guy another email and say, look, you know, with all this nonsense going on this year, it says, let's just let the year finish out. After the first of the year, let's get together. I'm going to buy a stake and a beer. Come on out of Coca-Cola headquarters. We'll go out to a restaurant. I promise I won't talk business. We'll just have a stake in a beer and we'll go out to a restaurant, I promise I won't talk business,

we'll just have a steak in a beer, and we'll have a few laughs. I said, if you get this guy to agree to this, get him to come outside, he'll tell you what the problem is, as long as you don't ask. If you sit down and relax with him over dinner, break bread, he'll lay it all out for you.

So he gets you appointment for the meeting, and the guy says, yeah, I lost my position. I'm worried about losing my job. I should have told you who has the contract now. I will make an introduction to you and connect you with this guy. And you can restart the process and you can probably get the contract back underway, but it's not going to happen until the coming year. And he made all the connections and they made the deal the following year and he ended up

landing Coca-Cola. So on any given negotiation technique, nothing ever fails on the Black Swan stuff. You just might not like what you learned. You've got to look at negotiation as an information gathering process and understand what the response is actually telling you. And so if the response would start this conversation and begin with is they're not talking to you, they've ghosted you, they've gone dark, whatever phrase you want, you've got to analyze how you got there in the first place, they're communicating with you by going silent and you've

got to be informed by that information. The other thing about the no-oriented question is all human beings suffer from the same affliction, which is known as decision fatigue. You're only capable of making so many decisions in a given day. And you start to run out of gas for a variety of reasons, sometime after about one o'clock in the afternoon,

could be based on how much sleep you got the night before, the natural circadian rhythm, you know, what you're eating, all that stuff goes into it. You begin to run out of gas. What we have found consistently is no matter how fatigued people are, they can always answer a no-oriented question, plus come up with four or five more implementation points no matter what. And we first found this out was when I asked Jack Welch to come speak to the class I was teaching at USC. It was a book signing book signings. They house you through. I was at a book signing at a conference a couple years ago.

We had about 200 people in line, the guys handle the signings said, nobody will spend more than 30 seconds with you or we're never going to get through this line. So from the moment they walk up to you, to the moment the next person walk up walks up, we're going to do 30 seconds. And the way that we're going to do this is we're going to get the names and write it on a piece of paper before they walk up so you don't got to talk to them. They're going to hand you the book, you're going to look them, you can say, hi Heather, nice to see you.

Dear Heather, have a wonderful life. Chris, boom, move on, 30 seconds. That's what they're doing to this Jack Welch thing. I ain't get time to pitch Jack Welch. I know him on the clock. I know he just wanna talk to me either because then the other people walk up and they go, hey Jack, want to come to the house tonight?

It's my kids birthday, you know, whatever. Any kind of conversation, no talking allowed is the rule. So I walk up, understanding this is a dynamic, and I look at me in the eye and I say, is it a ridiculous idea for you to come and speak to the negotiation class I teach at USC? And he stares at me and he starts to scowl. And then he looks up into the left and he gets

this like hideous expression on his face. I mean hideous, he looks furious and he's glaring and his face is frozen and he doesn't move. Now Jack welches since the cease, but you know, this was a couple years ago and Jack, when Jack died, he's not a, you know, he's not a young dude. Jack was an old dude.

He's been around for a long time And he gets his scow on his face and he looks like he had a stroke and I think to myself I just killed Jack well. She had a stroke and he died. That's why he hasn't moved And he's gonna fall over dead and they're gonna lock me up for killing Jack well It's because they're gonna play and make that he died and So initially when he doesn't fall over dead, I'm relieved But they still doesn't unfreeze. And he looks furious. And I think he's going to start screaming for security

to drag me out of there, because I've insulted him. It's not that. I don't know what's going on. And finally, he looks back at me and he says, this is my personal assistance name. This is a special Twitter account we have set up to communicate with her. I will call her and tell her who you are and what you want.

I think we're going to be in Los Angeles in a fall. If we are, we'll come in and speak to your class. Think of everything that he thought through when he said no. And I still don't know the neuroscience behind this. I just know it happens every time. So to wrap this no-oriented stuff up a couple of years ago, I meet Robert Hershvik.

I get introduced to him through a mutual friend. And Robert Hershvik is just this great, generous guy. He invites me to lunch. And it was my favorite lunch. I don't know how Robert knew. It was going to be my favorite lunch. But it was free, he paid. And that's always my favorite kind of lunch.

When somebody else buys, it could be celery. I don't care. I'll eat it. And it's had a steakhouse, and a low steakhouse. It's in the ground floor, the building is in an LA, which just happens to be about a 10-minute walk from where I'm living. Walked down, he's buying everybody knows, and 90 minutes with the guy. So I'm taking cool. We got a training coming up in New York in a couple of weeks. I often were free-ticket. Now I don't think he's going to come.

I think he's going to send one of his guys, which is all. Now, I don't think he's gonna come. I think he's gonna send one of his guys, which is all I want, I don't want him to come. And he looks at me and he says, how many can we buy? I'm like, wow. And one more indicator would a great generous guy is, because a lot of people are like only one free, what about five free or something,

nonsense like that, right? So I'm going back and forth with my son, who's in a DC area on his coast, and he's angry that I'm given anything away because we charge a lot for this training. And we always sell out. And he's like, I don't care if it's Robert. Heard you're, you know, I care about his money. And I said, but he's going to buy some.

Well, how many he's going to buy? We're going back and forth. We can't get a number out of him or his people. And my son calls me about four o'clock in the afternoon one day four o'clock in the late which is 7 p.m. on East Coast and he goes you find out from Harjovick tonight how many of they're going to buy or I'm going to sell his tickets because we're going to be sold out by tomorrow morning and he doesn't even get the free one he doesn't get any so again, remember decision to take. I sent them an email at 503. First line was, have you given up on committing to three tickets now? And the second line was, is it a ridiculous

idea for you to pay for them before the business day starts tomorrow? Because we're three hours behind in L.A. And so by the time the business day starts in L.A., it's lunchtime in New York and it's too late. So I send a two-know-oriented question to them at 503. I get an email response at 504. No, we've got no problem committing to three tickets now. No, it's not a problem. I'll get my assistant to touch with you. We'll pay for them within the hour.

And I've got all the tickets paid for at 5.23. You're killing yourself if you don't at least switch over to that. It's stupid. You will astonish yourself the difference you can make. And it's only the tip of the iceberg. It's only the tip of the iceberg. The astonish yourself with the difference you can make

just with no-oriented questions. All right, Heather, I've rifted enough. That was amazing, of course. Thank you so much. And we have so many questions. So guys, go ahead. Yes, first and foremost, Chris, thank you for joining our class. We really appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure. Yes. So here's the question, comment first. You say that negotiation is not an act of battle, but it's a process of discovery. So when you're looking for your customer and you want to know what's their budget, I want to know if he or she who speaks first, do they lose or how do you address that in that form of negotiation? Well, it's an information gathering process to start with. So basically, you know, if you speak first, it's only to get them talking. Now, you know, the whole budget slash price term is that no shortage of discussion

about whether or not you should name price first. And I would tell you that by and large, the literature says anchor and it's the literature is principally academic and I'll tell you what the shortcomings of that are in a minute. I will tell you that by and large, there's still some top A plus world class players that want to anchor first. 90% of them believe, here's to you, named Price First loses. I believe that anchoring high in terms, and this is one of the big differences in a problem with the literature and the studies. No study takes into account the number of deals that you drive from

the table by anchoring first with a number. And the practitioners across the board believe they want to make every deal, and they think the driving a deal from the table by going first with a high anchor is stupid. And I'm seeing it pretty much across the board. Now, I do something to set your expectations emotionally. I will do an emotional anchor, but I won't throw a high anchor number first. Any emotional anchor that I do, that everybody on my team does. Like if you call us in US, look, how much how much is your train or somebody says how much for an hour

of your consulting time? And I say more than you have higher than you've ever thought of more than you ever thought of spending. And then I shut up because your emotional architecture and your brain with this Olympic system and not, I know that you're gonna imagine a ridiculously high number. And I know that you're gonna ask me to go on, but I have to wait for you to ask me to go on, and I'm sit there silently and tell you say, okay, whatever it is.

And then when I drop my number, it's gonna seem like a relief. And I will tell you that the start of the third quarter last year, we tripled our coaching fees based on that question, because our head of sales business development, you know, another time for sales. David Johnson, young lady that we hired just a year and a half ago, she kept, you know, we told her to say, more than you had, more than you ever thought of spending. And high enough number to give you a heart attack.

And never had anybody ever push back when we quoted our fee. And so then she thought, I wonder what they would think it. So she would say, just out of curiosity, what number were you thinking? And so many times, they came back with a number that was astronomically higher than what our number was, which if they continued means that there was at least tacit agreement that they would pay that, that we tripled our price and saw no fall off in our business. So we never named price first, I will feel you out. If you're pushing me really hard for a price and you're just determined, determined, determined to get a price out

of me, you're probably using me to be a competing bid. You know, I'm probably the fool in the game. Then I'm not going to give you that data because you're using me anyway. If I'm certain that you really want to do business with me and we've gone back and forth and back and forth and I've done everything that I could gently do because I want to know your comfort level and I want to make a price, I want the price term to be at your comfort level. I'll throw a number because if it gets, if the entire process is held up over me dropping a number, I'm not going to, I'm not going to have my ego so invested that I can't name a price

first that I'm going to let everything derail over drop the number. I'm going to drop the number as a last move, not as a first move because then how do you react after that is also going to give me a lot of information that I don't otherwise have. I want the information. Is that answer your question? It does. Thank you. Welcome. You're a high-christ. How do you design the emotional experience of the other person within a

negotiation? Do you want to make them all excited first and then bring them down to reality? Again, then build them up again. When do you want to use humor? Can you say something about that? Yeah. So it's interesting where you're coming from on that. I don't know that we design the emotional experience per se. There's a fair amount of discussion I've read in the past, above the line, below the line, all that kind of nonsense. We're gonna try to get people excited

because they need to be excited about the deal that's a high maintenance operation. And we're not into high maintenance. If you need them to be excited and you got them excited, then you got to be with them a lot, team excited. You always get implementation issues, ton of ton of issues. And we know that most people exist in, the fault mental state is largely negative, survival mode,

which is what everybody's in default is largely negative. Success mode is not negative. Success is not natural. You know, I'm reading an interesting book recently called Dopamine, the Molecular Le Mans, talking about how the brain sort of calculates a future and your survival mechanisms and your survival mechanisms are principally the only thing they think about the future is they want to be there when it happens, which is why when you're hungry eat, even though it might not be good for you long term. But our survival mechanisms were built into us when food was scarce and we had the forwards and we might go for days or weeks without eating.

And we weren't sure what else was going to kill us. So our desire to reproduce doesn't really look at the future because it's about me or my genes being here when the future comes, not necessarily, whether or not I'm going to thrive, but just that I'm going to survive. So back to your question. I know people are largely negative. We want to start deactivating negatives right off the bat.

You know, we don't try to get people excited because again, that becomes, it's a maintenance issue. Trust-based influence is low maintenance. If people trust you, if you've done what's necessary to build their trust, you don't have to talk to them as much. If you got to talk to them a lot, they're either you're bad for them or they're bad for you.

So we look to build trust mechanisms, if you will, into the encounters, and then of course we back stuff up. So once we've earned people's trust, we're gonna hang on to it because we deliver. Now, the one thing I will tell you though, and there's a lot, a lot of discussion about this also, which if you look

at the discussion, it's kind of funny if you really look at it. What's more important, the first impression or last impression? If you Google it, reality is the last impression, is the last impression, period, period. People don't remember things the way that they happen and I got this from some Gallup pulled data from every bit of 12 years ago. People remember the most intense moment and how it ended. Now we're all taught about the importance of a first impression. You get away with a mediocre first impression. You can't get away with a mediocre last impression. Tremendous amount of emphasis placed on first impressions. The only thing that's really important about a first impression is that it not be bad.

Because if it's bad, then of course, your first impression is your last impression at the same time. But if you look at all the data, every survey that it's out there, everybody that tries to defend the importance of the first impression being the most important, they'll compare it to what goes on in the middle and ignore what happens at the end. So how do you do that if you're going to quote emotionally designing experience? Whatever genuine positive thing you could say has to be said at the end. Most of the time, if you're a genuine person, I'm going to assume that you all are.

You want to say something genuine and positive at the beginning, because you've been programmed that the first impression is really important. And then you will finish the email with something that's either mediocre or bad. And wonder whether you'll get back to you. Whether last impression is the lasting impression. So take at least take whatever you said first and cut and paste it and duplicate it at the end. Now you do not need it at the beginning, but you will die if you don't put it at the end. You should know what that means already. That's the best kind of notification.

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University podcast. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Find the Millionaire University on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You know that fresh produce is the best produce. That's why at Kroger, we invest in local farmers to bring you seasonal picks that taste fresh from the farm good, like sweet corn, refreshing watermelon, and juicy peaches. So whether you're a delivery lover, a picker upper, or you shop in store, your local produce always tastes 100% fresh.

Or you get a 100% refund guaranteed. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Great question. Thank you. OK, I mentioned, Chris, that you have a couple of super fans on this call. I am handing this off to one of your super fans. Thank you Heather. Yeah Chris. I mean I side you in my essays for the university, so you can imagine how excited I was when Heather told us.

I have two questions for you. The first one is when I was reading your book, I was questioning. Can you share with us the three type of voices that you use in a negotiation? And super curious to hear how it sounds. And my second question is, you give us so many tools. How do you choose which one are you going to use? Is it like an automatic thing? Or do you follow any type of trick

when you are talking with the other person? All right, go to the first one. All right, so the voice is basically, the assertive voice is just direct anonymous. So this is what I want, this is why I want it. Direct anonymous. I'm gonna use Donald Trump as an example. And it's just because he's a post-genre of the assertive. I mean, I'm a natural born assertive.

And I can remember once reading that his daughter, Ivanka said, my father's just direct an honest. That's all he is. People who call him blunt or harsh, he's just direct an honest. So that's a perfect example, because direct an honest feels like getting hit in the face with a brick. And I once had a colleague of mine say that to me,

another hostage negotiator said, like sometimes feeling like you, Chris, is like getting hit in the face with a brick. And I remember thinking to myself, but I'm the nicest guy I know. I mean, how, sometimes feeling a little you, Chris, is like getting hit in the face with a brick. And I remember thinking to myself, but I'm the nicest guy I know. I mean, how could that be? I love me. Why don't you love me, too?

But that's direct anonymous. It's just blunt. It's just, this is what I want, and this is why I want it. And you're going to give it to me. That's direct anonymous. Then the analyst's voice is more the late night FM DJ, the downward inflecting voice that actually triggers neurochemicals in your head and they actually slow your brain down. And that's the way it works. So, and we used to say it hit your mirror neurons,

and it was a guy that I like to listen to neuroscientists out of Stanford called the That's the way it works. So, and we used to say it hit your mirror neurons. And there's a guy that I like to listen to neuroscientists that are staying for it called the Andrew Juberman. And you got to love these scientists, because they like to argue about the most ridiculous stuff. Now, Juberman is a brilliant guy. And he starts a podcast going like, you know, I got news for you.

There's no such thing as mirror neurons. All you people out there, all you neuroscientists that are talking about mirror neurons, humans do thing as mirror neurons. All you people out there, all you neuroscientists that are talking about mirror neurons, humans do not have mirror neurons. And I remember thinking like, oh great, you know, I've been talking about mirror neurons for years. He says, but there is something called

emotional resonance circuitry, and we're not sure exactly what it is. And yeah, their emotions have contagions and people have a tendency to react. And I remember thinking like, all right, so who cares what it is? The reaction is still the same. I don't care if they're mariners.

I don't care if they're monkey cucumbers. I don't know what you want to call it. I don't care. All I know is that it works. So whatever the voice hits in your brain, it's a neurochemical response. It's involuntary, which means I can start it. You can fight it once it got started, but you can't stop me from starting, actually

starting a chemical change in your brain. And the late night FM, the DJ voice actually slows people's brains down. It has a tendency to tamp down the emotions, and I will use it on myself to intentionally tamp down my own emotions because I hear my voice too and if I'm angry or If I'm extremely sad on literally on the verge of tears if I Trigger the the late night FM DJ voice it triggers it tams both emotions down for me successfully equally So works and then there's the smiling voice of regard with somebody who just really likes you. And they smile and you can feel their smile.

And Sean Acker, Harvard psychologist, which I realized are really lousy credentials. But John may know Sean, I don't know. He did this great TED talk called The Happiness Advantage. And this is my source of data on this. He says you're 31% smarter in a positive frame of mind. So if I smile, I'll trigger your neurons and there will be a chemical change that'll happen in your brain, it makes you and me smarter.

And it's ridiculously effective. I mean, like it's successful. You want to trigger people into giving you things spontaneously, put them in a good mode. And I remember really interesting comment. I read the book You Too on You Too. I'm a big You Too fan. A fan of those guys is a band.

Also a fan of them as individual human beings. And Bono and his one foundation around the turn of the century, the most last century, he negotiated the literal forgiveness of hundreds of millions of dollars of African debt. First world and second world countries, Russia being quote, second world, just wiping the debt off their books, just forgiving it. And he went around the world and said, look, that's not going to pay anyway. You're crippling them. You're not going to get your money.

Forgive the debt. Give them a chance to get back on their feet. And he wrote that regardless of the leader, if he could get them to laugh with him early in a first conversation, There was a really good chance he was going to be successful at getting the deal. Marin Theron's smiling positive friend of mine. And he said that he'd been viciously criticized globally for smiling and laughing with Vladimir Putin. And people saying, how dare you, this guy is a murderer and an oppressor of millions, how dare you smile and laugh with him.

If I don't try to get oppression taken off of people, he's happy to smile with whoever he has to in order to relieve the debts of millions. And I thought that was a great example of the strategic advantage of getting to someone to laugh with you early in a deal to try to get a deal. So that's under three voices. What was your other question? Yeah, I have, it's just how to know which technique to use and when.

But I think we are short on time. So maybe one of my high percentage shot is go with the label or mirror first and then feel your way through it after that. Thank you. Thank you Chris for coming. I really appreciate it. So, you know, there are different methods of negotiation. What works in one situation may not work in another, right? So, in your... When I disagree, just let me know when I can jump back in. In your experience, what is the most challenging negotiation situation you were in and how did you address it?

Okay, so Black Swan method I would call emotional intelligence based negotiation. And nothing works all the time, but emotional intelligence gives you your best chance of success. People ask this about guarantees in the past, and what we were comfortable in guaranteeing is we will always give you your best chance of success. You might not get the deal, you might not like the deal that you got, but we guarantee you it was better than what anything else could possibly produce. And since it's based on human nature, it's only limitation of human beings. And of course, your ability to adapt into the moment,

because you got to adapt into the moment. There are cultural overlays, but late over our culture, late over our gender, late over everything else is that we're human. So the negotiation is based on the human wiring that is in your brain, which you possess regardless of gender, ethnicity, religion, diet, it even works on vegans. If it works on vegans, that works, right? Sorry. So it's the most universal. And every hostage negotiation team in the world uses the same basic skills, same eight skills, whether they're in Bogota or Cape Town or Tokyo, it doesn't matter.

So it's human-based stuff. So sometimes when the other side's not really negotiating, you know, they never intended to make a deal. They're using you for some purpose. And we actually, I started catching on to this when I was working kidnappings against al-Qaeda. And in point of fact, it's a real big problem in the business world. A lot of people that want to use you for due diligence, free consulting, or a competing bit. And they never wanted to make a deal with you. And that's, we use the tools to figure that out early on

and then go back to the last impression, it's the last impression. And in the communication is quickly as possible but as politely as possible. Because if you're gonna leave a residue, you wanna leave good vibes behind and not negative vibes. So that's kind of a roundabout.

I think answer to both questions you asked me. Yeah, you did, thank you. You're welcome. Chris, how can everybody get a hold of you or keep up with you on social? Where can they find you? I'm on Instagram at the FBI Negotiator. If you'd like Instagram. I've done a lot of stuff on Clubhouse, but not as frequently. If you want more free information, if you're a federal employee, you would say, if it's free, I'll take three. That's what my colleague used to like say in the FBI. We got a free newsletter. Better than free, it's concise and actionable. I get the daily 10 point briefing from the Wall Street Journal. I don't even read it because it just worries me out. It's just reading the thing.

You know, our newsletter has one concise, actionable article, and it's the best way to keep up with all of our stuff. New products, we get stuff now specifically designed for women. We got a female coach now, and she's got something called the Women's Power Hour and Negotiation for Women. And there are a couple of subtleties. For example, the late-night FM DJ voice, women have to be cautious if that's not misinterpreted as seductive. And I actually wish, in my case, it would be misinterpreted as seductive because I'm a single man.

I need all the help I can get. I'm not particularly attractive. But, you know, it never occurred to me. And that's one of the things that Sandy or one of our women coaches can talk candidly with other women about. And so there's announcements about stuff like that in our newsletter. So you can go to our website and sign up on the blog section on a far on a upper end corner of the website blackswannltd.com. We got a bunch of free stuff on the website.

Take everything free that we have. You need a long, long way with the instruction you're getting in this class and the book and the free stuff that we put out. If you want more after that, we're going to want you to be up to speed on the free stuff anyway, before we start charging you, you know, a year's salary for one of our classes, or the mortgage on your house. Get a mortgage on your house to pay us. But take the free stuff.

Chris, you are amazing, John. I have to hand this call back to you because I know you have something to say. Well, mostly I just wanna say thank you. Your master class was masterful of this year. And no, I'm a huge fan. So thank you for spending this time with us. I think this personal connection with all of us

is going to accelerate our learning from you, I believe, because of being able to, you know, this touch we're getting. And we'll send a lot of us back to a lot of the wisdom you've shared in your books and whatnot. I want to say, when I read your book and it came up and you said, is now a bad time. I've been saying that since 1982 when everybody thought I was freaking dumb, but no, you were the man who in the book explained why it was effective and you also pointed out

that it gave you other person security and safety and that led to the trust. So I'm, yeah, well, hey, I'm a giant fan and thank you so much for sharing your. He is a huge fan. I can tell that this is child, one of his children. I can, on behalf of my brothers and my mom, he's been talking about you for a long time. Now I'm like obsessed too. So now I'm going to be'm like obsessed too. So now

I'll be hearing from me else. So thank you so much. And again, class thanks for letting me me join. That's cool. And Heather, thank you for connecting me with this group. I'm a big fan. I'm on the Heather Monahan fan club, I'm in a cheering section. I think she's one. Hope you're enjoying this episode so far. I'm Jennifer Cohen, host the top ranking business and entrepreneur podcast, Habits and Hustle, apart the YAP media network, the number one

business and self-improvement podcast network. So most people live the life they get and not the life they want. And I'm here to change all that. My goal with each episode is to give you the habits and hustle tips you need to show up to your life better, bigger, and bolder. Tune in now, and I'll not only help you answer the questions, like what do you want most in life,

and why don't you have it, but we'll also help you make it a reality. I also pick the brains of top thought leaders on how they've gone to the top and the advice they have to help you get there too. Head over to Happets and Hustle, once you've done listening to this episode and get one step closer to boldness, one episode at a time. This summer, EXU Energy is back, the ultimate summer path, starting 50% off energy charges all summer.

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