Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan - What You Need To Know To Break FREE From Burnout with Davida Ginter Episode 145

Episode Date: September 7, 2021

Burnout is absolutely terrifying! So many people struggle with it every day and don’t know how to break out of the stress cycle! So what can we do? Global burnout expert, author, and speaker, Davida Ginter is here to let us know. She is the Co-Founder & CEO of Enkindle Global, an organization created with the mission to end burnout and literally wrote the book on work life balance. Today, Davida shares all the secrets, strategies, and tips on eliminating burnout in your life. If you have ever felt chronically stressed then you HAVE to listen to this episode!  About The Guest: Davida Ginter is the Co-Founder & CEO of Enkindle Global, an organization that leads global efforts to eliminate burnout. She’s the author of the book “Burning Out Won’t Get You There” which features interviews and conversations with worldwide leaders and changemakers. She’s the founder of the sustainability center Be the Change, and has been recognized internationally for her work in the field of Values-Based Communication for Sustainability.   Davida is a Participatory Leadership facilitator and a Non-Violent Communication trainer, with a BA in sociology & journalism (Tel Aviv University) and a MSc in Strategic Leadership towards Sustainability (BTH, Karlskrona, Sweden). She is a writing contributor on several worldwide platforms, such as Thrive Global and The Startup Publication. While Davida currently resides in Israel, she works internationally to lead social change.   Finding Davida Ginter: Website: https://davidaginter.com/  Enkindle Global: https://www.enkindleglobal.com/  Read Burning Out Won't Get You There Facebook: Davida Ginter Review this podcast on Apple Podcast using this LINK and when you DM me the screen shot, I buy you my $299 video course as a thank you!    To pre-order Overcome Your Villains NOW and get the bonus bundle click here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com     See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know that fresh produce is the best produce. That's why at Crogr, we invest in local farmers to bring you seasonal picks that taste fresh from the farm good, like sweet corn, refreshing watermelon, and juicy peaches. So whether you're a delivery lover, a picker-upper, or you shop in store, your local produce always tastes 100% fresh. Or you get a 100% refund guaranteed. Kruger, fresh for everyone. Stress, when it happens every now and then, that's not a problem at all, but when it's constant

on a regular basis, this is too much to carry. And the actual definition of burnout is chronic work related stress that has not been successfully managed. So really the problem is not stress is how we cope with it, how we not let it become a regular part of our routines that burden us and get us all paralyzed at times. I'm on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals. We've come at a first aid and set you up for a better tomorrow.

I'm ready for my coach. Hi and welcome back. I'm so excited for you to meet my guest today. I selfishly am having her on because I need to hear and learn from her. Devita Ginter is the co-founder and CEO of Inkindle Global, an organization that leads global efforts to eliminate burnout. She's the author of the book, Burning Out Won't Get You There, which features interviews and conversations with worldwide leaders and change makers.

She's the founder of the Sustainability Center, be the change and has been recognized internationally for her work in the founder of the Sustainability Center, be the change and has been recognized internationally for her work in the field of values-based communication for sustainability. Zambita, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for inviting me. I'm delighted to be here. So tell me I'm confused.

When I hear burnout, you are speaking to me because I feel as though I'm burnt to a crisp right now. But as I thought more and more about it I wondered is burnout different than stressed out or is it the same thing? Definitely different and there is always so interesting to explore that because there is a quite misconception about these people assume that stress and burnout are the same when it's actually far from being true. The thing about stress, and it's really interesting that it's not a negative thing by itself. There's a vast research showing that stress by itself is not a problem. It could actually be

a positive thing that push us forward to pursue our goal. It trades adrenaline, right? It trades this drive. The problem, however, starts when we perceive stress as negative and then we get caught up in this loop and we get actually stressed out by thinking that this is a stressful situation rather than coping with it. And then the other problem starts or continues when stress is not happening occasionally, but constantly. So if I can give you an analogy, if you will now grab a glass of water or your cup of coffee, and I would ask you

to hold it up in the air for five minutes. That's not too challenging, right? But if I'd ask you now to hold it up in the air for an hour, that is a bit more heavy on your muscle, but still something physical for you to do. What if I'd ask you to hold up your glass of water up in the air for 12 hours a day, six days in a row? That's exactly how I can see your expression now. And you can imagine that is a real burden.

And the same goes for stress. When it happens every now and then, that's not a problem, though, but when it's constant on a regular basis, this is too much to carry. And the actual definition of burnout as coined by the World Health Organization is chronic work-related stress that has not been successfully managed. So really, the problem is not stress.

It's how we cope with it, how we not let it becomes a regular part of our routines that burden us and and get us all paralyzed at times. I was reading an article that you were recently interviewed for in Forbes and it was talking about some of the statistics around the percentage of employees that actually are burnt out over stress right now. And I believe it was 83%. Yeah, well, that was a few months ago, shortly after I believe the second wave of COVID. And to be honest, there isn't an accurate number of data on stress and burnout, because it keeps changing. The last 18 months since COVID hit took a serious toll

on people's emotional well-being for different reasons, dissolving boundaries, a lot of balls to juggle in the air. And certainty. And certainty, exactly, dealing with the unknown, working remotely when we really wanted to socialize with people and or coworkers. And that means that every time you ask a person,

how do you feel their answers keep changing? And this is something we really understand. This is so, it makes so much sense on the human level and now it's up to us and we had this brief chat just before we started recording it's up to us to decide how we need to cope with this ever changing situation because this is our reality. Regardless of COVID, we are living in an over-busy, ever-demanding environment. Now, what do we want to do with it? One of the things that you mentioned before we started recording was just the idea of acceptance and accepting the situation to help us lower the stress.

Can you explain that? Yeah, absolutely. Again, I can start with an analogy, which is, let's say, I'm an athlete's training for the Olympic Games in a marathon. Right? I want to run the marathon. I've never done that. Maybe one day. So it's not that I'll show up to the Olympic Games through a real marathon, running for the first time, the 42 kilometers, I will run before that many different hills and terrains, and within different weather conditions, because I want to prepare myself for whatever will come my way.

That way, when I will fly to a different country, different times on different weather conditions, different soil even to run on, I'll be prepared. And that's basically how resilience is being built, right? You prepare before the challenge because sometimes you cannot predict the challenge. You don't know the territory until you walk on it. And going back to our discussion about learning to accept and live with your reality is not really about feeling like a victim or this is our reality and that's just the way it is and we need to live with it. It's more about this is our new reality.

Now, how do we turn that into an opportunity for growth? How do we prepare ourselves not just professionally, but also mentally, emotionally, to deal with the unknown, to deal with uncertainty, and from there it really opens or paves a path of creativity, of innovation. You know, innovation is not just about building machines, it's about also innovate.

Our routines are lifestyle. This way I'm calling it an opportunity to really reinvent how do we wanna live our lives and our work routine, our social lives, our parenting maybe, you know, there are different aspects coming in together in this new reality. DeVita, with so many people, myself included, me deep in the anxiety, me deep in the uncertainty, and I have passed clients reaching out to me saying, Heather, my lawyers mandating, I get a vaccine to come back in the office. I don't want to go back in the office. I don't want to find a way to get back to the office.

I'm trying to find a way to get back to the office. I'm trying to find a way to get back to the office. I don't want to go back to the office. I don't want to get a vaccine. I don't know what to do.

I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. it's so frustrating and it feels so stressful. Depending on which side you're on, I feel like no matter where you are, there's this high level of continued stress. Like you said, holding the glass up for days and days at a time, it's not possible. What are some of the tactical tips that you give people to implement in their life to overcome this kind of burnout?

I'll start by saying, and really that's always the first pie because this is the foundation that there's no one size that fits all. To be honest, when we try to blindly follow others advice when it comes to our emotion, that could actually be more harmful. If we try to say, employ a practice that another person seems to be doing and it's working well for them, but it's not a good fit for me, I could suffer from that if I would compare myself to another person, keep asking, why can't I meditate? I know why can't I start jogging, whatever it is. So you really want to choose for yourself the practices that suits your preferences and values and personality and routine. And with that said, so we have that discountation that we want to test and try for ourselves. Really, there are many practices we could share, but I can offer three main themes that I usually start with and under those umbrella, there's a lot of freedom for creativity.

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Well, you bring up a good point. So one of the companies I did a keynote for, it's a large company, they're mandating their employees, come back to work and have the vaccine. And I'm getting messages from their employees saying they don't want to. So for that person, what is the boundary that person sets because they're afraid to lose a job? How do they handle that? Well, to begin with is to have a dialogue and open one,

an open conversation with their boss. And open and say, I feel that my privacy has been invaded, that I'm entitled to make my own choice and from there to take it on. But you see, that's the interesting part, which is very challenging also, if it's the company's policy and if there is no other choice and oftentimes there is,

there is a creative choice to keep working remotely, to get tested before you walk into the office if you don't want to get back. There's always a creative outlet, but if there isn't, then it really boils down to your own boundaries. So just ask yourself this tough, but much needed question. What am I more afraid to lose? My current job, but you can probably find a new one. Maybe, I don't know, it really depends on the case, maybe you need to cry for a family right here right now. But again, why are you more afraid to lose your current job or your core value that you're not waiting for someone else to force you to get vaccinated? And there's always, when you balance the two, there's always a choice,

and we always have a choice, even if it's a tough one. And this is what we really need to understand. This is doing the deep work, preventing burnout is really not about pursuing the easy choice. It's about listening to ourselves. Easier said than done, but this is life, right? We really need to make a choice. But then we live peacefully with ourselves that we did not let anyone else make the call for us. Because I've seen people burnt out, not because they were workload, not because they were underpaid, because someone else decided for them and those were the severe cases of burnout. Not people who worked, I don't know, more than 10 hours a day, that's not very nice, but it's manageable. When they felt that they can't voice their opinion and their own

values, that's when they got burnt out severely. Well, that is so true and I've lived that firsthand. Okay, so boundaries are the first B. What are the other two? Boundaries is the first B. You and they identified it correctly. The second B would be balance. And I know that people love talking about work, life, balance. I wrote an entire paragraph about it in my book, but life has changed, reality has changed. Who knows what work-life balance is now anyway? How about instead of calling it that way, we'll find more realistic models, sounds more like work-life, blend, or work-life, harmony, or work-life synergy, or whatever allows us to stay the person that we are at work and the professional that we are also at home in our personal life.

And that is to say that every time that we try to draw an artificial line of separation between the two spheres, there is this bothering dissonance because that means that we cannot be ourselves in the workplace. And that means that we cannot bring our concerns from work back home. And we need to keep putting this mask of toughness, being the rock, and that is a very, very stressful and demanding place to be. So this is not really what we want to create. I have nothing against work-life balance, but it doesn't work that well anymore.

I want to suggest a different kind of balance. And actually the balance that I would like to suggest, regardless to the harmony and blend I was talking to, is a more self-personalized, created balance. It's basically to look at your own needs, what are you currently lacking in your routines, and balance that complements those routines with different activities that nourish you,

that providing for those needs. Let's say I'm working all day long in front of my computer screen. Right, this one for the best is my work. So after work, I really want to socialize people. I want to complement this routine and balance that in the way that suits me. But what if I work in a hectic, noisy environment? I need some me time. I want to walk outside, hiking nature, you know, being with myself or read quietly or right quietly in my case. So the way I see a far more accurate balance that actually meets your own needs. I love what you said there because for me, I love being around people. I love being outside.

I love being active and the past year and a half has meant me being inside my house, working for my computer day in and day out and for very long hours. And one thing that's a non-negotiable for me is to leave to work outside and go for a walk at least once a day. I don't care what time it is, but when I don't have that, I feel so much worse. Yeah, exactly. Because you just found a way that I'll lift you and your energy. We are going back to that. A practice that rejuvenates you and recharges you. We never forget to recharge our own cell phone, right? What about ourselves? What about our own battery? We are not a machine,

but we definitely need to recharge ourselves every now and then to just, you know, feel good, keep being ourselves, keep leading, keep serving, keep parenting, keep doing what we do. This is not egoistic to maintain self-care. This is truly essential to just keep pursuing our goals and keep living our lives in the best possible way. I really don't see it as egoistic to find those nourishing activities that create this such mid-advance. Okay. So we've got boundaries create these such needed balance. Okay, so we've got boundaries, we've got balance, what's our final B?

The final and my personal favorite one is building support systems. It's tightly connected to resilience that we have mentioned before. And the idea is that you build your support systems before you need it. Support system could be a group of people that you can go and either social as we do, seek for their help or advice, or maybe even just one person, but you know that this person will have your back

whenever you need it. And it's a lot about or around. And for it, which is again, not necessarily about sharing advice, most of the time, we just need to be heard and seen by someone else. And so building those support systems, it's about creating those places that we now will share our journey, successes and failures. Achievements and mistakes, right? So for better words, they are there for us.

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hospitalized. I've never met a person who never fully recovered. However, I met a few who were burnt out so badly that he took them a couple of years to gain full recovery. For example, one woman who I'm still in close relationship even with. She's a wonderful person, very sharp, but sometimes she just, and her burnout happened, as I said, three years ago, so when we first talk, it was a year or so. Until this day, she sometimes just paused and tried to come up with the right word and try to remember something. And then she apologized for that and asked, what are you apologizing for? And she tells me, David, you should really

met me before my burnout. I was the sharpest person who could articulate myself so well. And now she can come up with the right words when I really need them. I don't understand something. Was it like she literally had a breakdown and ended up in a hospital or? Breakdown in a hospital with a disease,

but it was right after she suffered the burnout and deep stress and had another relative who went through other health issues. So it was everything all together, you know, everything at once. And those are basically what I'm describing. The after effect, the physical symptoms that just followed an emotional breakdown. Yeah. And then again, people who just after very intense here that included burnout of different reasons,

they someone told me I went back to my parents that will just take care of babies with me. And I went crawl into bed and just stayed there for two months to sleep and sleep. I was like, I'm going to sleep here. I'm going to sleep here. I'm going to sleep here. I'm going to sleep here. I'm going to sleep here. I'm going to sleep here. just take your babies with me and I went crawl into bed and just stayed there for two months to sleep again 14 hours a day to recover. So you said people recover

from burnout but it's such a long recovery when it's not managed well, when it has been prevented, when they actually hit the wall, it's a long recovery. This is exactly what we want to prevent. What are the signs that you see before you head that long? So the main three signs, and it's really important, that's a really important question. First one is exhaustion. As we said, tiredness. And people don't know me, we could have understood that, we slept quite well, eight hours at night, and we still woke up tired every day.

That was emotional exhaustion, being translated into physical tiredness. So the first one is exhaustion. The second sign is cynicism, and you feel really negative and disconnected from your work, your mission, your colleagues, or your boss. Now we all get sometimes negative and cynical, that's okay, frustration. When it happens every day, when you really can't stand the phases of the people you are working, that's a red flag. Something is wrong there, you need to pause and ask yourself, why on the verge of burnout? The third sign is reduced self-efficacy.

So it's about our sense of self-worth. We are no longer just less productive. We feel less productive, less effective, less creative. Our sense worth is being negatively affected there. Wow, I had never heard that breakdown before, and I didn't realize that burnout could affect and impact yourself. We're a fat, it's pretty scary, but I'm glad that you've articulated so clearly.

So we know these three things. And if you're seeing them and so often, I've been in a situation where going to work every day was negative every day and you hate going. And there is nothing worth sacrificing your health for. And continuing to go back to a place and environment where you hate being there, you've got to make a change and put yourself first. Definitely. I love it you say that because you bring up to really significant issues. One is again our intentional choice. We always have a choice. Even if it is to speak up about what's wrong. Now, the second aspect is about our roles as leaders.

Now, it could be that we are leading our family. We could be leading a team of 10 people. We could be leading our organization of a thousand employees. If we notice those signs that we just counted, If we notice them on other person, this could be really helpful that we as leaders or colleagues will do something rather than ignoring that. And that also means that changing something

within the system is really important because we kept talking now in the last few minutes about what the individuals do and individual practices, but that's just half of the story. The other half belongs to systems, organizations, institutions, communities. I can do all the work on myself, which is very important, but tomorrow morning, if I'm going back to the very same system that contributed to my burnout, then I'm still, you know, subjected to this toxic work environment or whatever it is. This is why, for example, when I speak to

CEOs or HR and ask them about their well-being strategy and they told me, oh, you know, we gave our workers vouchers for yoga classes already brought in the massage chair. I know they don't get it because if you have problems of broken communication or lack of trust within the company, no massage chair in the world will fix that. That's so true, and sadly, that's the majority of major companies. Yes. I know this is exactly a work change to create a deep culture change, organizational culture, social culture, whatever it is, deep profound change, rather than those superficial and random solutions

that scratches the surface and don't address the root causes. Oh, well keep doing your work to beta because the world needs it and employees in this world need it. How can people find you and how can people find the book? Thank you so much. So the book, Burning Out Want Get You There there is available on Amazon or can find it on my website, Davidaginter.com. And we have our organization that is dedicated for better prevention with support leaders, organizations, as I said, strategies, whatever is needed for this profound change.

We are called in Kindle Global. We work globally. I love my team and their commitment to this mission. So you can also find us at inkindleglobal.com and we are always happy to support with this endeavor. While your passion comes through loud and clear, we can feel it. Thank you so much, DeVita.

Keep up the amazing work and we will be implementing your strategy. Thank you so much. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life.

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