Creatives Grab Coffee - #102 Building Smarter Studios (ft. IND Films)

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, Israel Bonequi from IND Films (Montreal, Quebec) shares his journey from being a generalist offering multiple creative services to focusing on video production and scaling IND Films into a specialized studio. He discusses the challenges of pricing creative work, the importance of educating clients, and how niching into medical and industrial video has helped the company grow. Israel also dives into the process of building a new virtual production studio designed to make cutting-edge technology more accessible for smaller production companies. This episode offers valuable lessons for marketers and video professionals looking to refine their positioning, improve client relationships, and explore the future of video production.TIMESTAMPS:00:00 - Episode Introduction and Guest Welcome02:19 - Guest Bio: Israel Bonequi from IND Films03:22 - Lessons from being a generalist in creative services07:25 - How clients perceive value in video production10:01 - Client education tax: the hidden cost of cutting corners14:36 - Transitioning to video specialization and pricing challenges19:06 - Raising rates and overcoming mindset barriers21:44 - The reality of difficult clients and nonprofits23:04 - Asking “why” to uncover true client goals25:38 - Turning single projects into long-term campaigns27:57 - IND Films’ focus on medical and industrial video production32:44 - Niching down and growing through organic opportunities36:19 - Digital marketing: shifting from Google Ads to LinkedIn42:21 - Building a new Montreal studio for virtual production47:41 - The cost, process, and challenges of studio construction52:01 - Soundproofing lessons for production spaces55:17 - Balancing family businesses and shared spaces57:16 - Future growth plans for IND Films58:27 - Closing remarks and invitation to visit IND FilmsSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vHd8BdbkMQITFZmDJ0bo9🍏 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/creatives-grab-coffee/id1530864140🎞️ Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.comTo learn more about the show, visit: https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/#CreativesGrabCoffee #videographyhacks #videography #videographer #videoproduction #businesspodcast #videoproductionpodcast #lapseproductions #videomarketing #videoproductioncompany #videoproductionservices

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creatives Grab Coffee is hosted by Daria Nuri and Carol Lazaroff from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors.

Do you have a shoot in Toronto? Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? LAPS Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. LAPS Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPS Productions.com to learn more. My name is Maran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto.

We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group band packages You can see our contact information in the link below. You're more than happy to help you guys out Make sure you follow and subscribe to creatives scrapcoffee.com. Thank you Thank you Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio doing location sound, sound design, post-sound, ADR, fully. We service equipment.

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And we're all gonna have a real good time. And now, let's begin the show. Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Craves Gap Coffee. This time, we're back to Canada again, and we've reached out to Montreal, and we currently have Israel Bonacki from IND films here with us. Israel, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. So let's start off with a little history lesson.

Let's learn a little bit about who you are and how you started your company. So the company started by Fluke. I was trained in graphic arts and then stumbled onto photography. which I loved and then doing photography I got invited to do the DP for a student film and that was like an epiphany right so I loved it and from then onwards I just kept on working on video this is in the early 2000s around 2000 actually so I started a small company that wanted to do everything which was the stupidest thing I could ever done um and by full service you mean like not just video everything everything i was doing like

graphic design and uh web design and e-commerce and photography and video and all that stuff and uh in my thinking because i was obviously inexperienced and afraid um my thinking was that that was a sure bed of never not have work but no never do that ever because because what happens is that you first of all you never become great at anything and second everybody knows you for something else so you can't ever be the first call from a client to do something because you're a you know like you're like a Swiss Army knife, you're at the bottom of the barrel, you're the cheap, you know, like the one that gets people out of trouble last minute. So not a good thing to do. I'm surprised you were able to do it because, again, it is like multiple different skills

that you have to at least get to a pretty acceptable level, you know? And know well how to sell it, know well how it works and it's a lot. Well, that's the thing. And that's what I'm saying. I got never good at really selling any of that because, you know, like, you can't. So, like, some people know you from doing web design and they never, like, they have no idea that you also do video or photography or other things. And the same for people who do video work with you.

They have no idea. You also do logo design. So, like, in my foggy, stupid brain, And I thought, oh, like, I'm going to get great clients that I'm going to do everything for. That's not how it works. So wrong thinking. It took me a while to get aligned. Oh, sorry, coffee machine.

Some for us? Yeah. What is this podcast without coffee? Exactly. There we go. So it took me a while to get aligned. And finally, I cut out everything else and focused just on video and photography. And then eventually photography got really relegated to a much, much lower tier.

And we still offer that as a service, but it's more like an add-on, like courtesy type of thing. That's the same thing with us. We were about to go down the same path at one point. And then I just realized it was too much work and I couldn't figure out like the markups and like the amount of time that it would take. So I just figured the easiest approach for us was to just find partners in those fields and just bring them in for those projects. With the exception of photography, we kind of have a partner that does white label for us. But for like graphic design, for example, I just couldn't figure out the numbers because the numbers because I was like, I'm going to get stuck with so many emails. and it's like, if it's like a small project, it's going to cost me more than what the project is worth

just in time to execute it. So I just couldn't make it work for us. It's all opportunity costs, especially when you're dealing with multiple services. And you know, and you think a lot of the time when you're starting out, you think that, okay, the clients will know, they'll do their research and they'll know that I could do everything. But a lot of the time we have found is that sometimes clients, they barely glance at your website and they won't even know everything that you offer. they're going to immediately just come to contact you. So if they're contacting you for one service and you're just going to explain that to them and help them with it, they're only going to know you for that.

They didn't do their crazy due diligence in looking at every page on your website to see all the different services you did. You know what I'm noticing, Kirill lately is that they'll find with the new leads that we have coming in. I'm noticing they'll find one video on the website and that's the one that sells them on it, but I know they don't check out the rest. That's the thing. They only see one thing.

The one video. But that's a good thing because it's like when they find the one thing that they like and they'll immediately connect with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. And that's a problem that I see with some people that have a very specific need and can't really transpose the, you know, your ability or your technical skills or your creativity to something else. So if they want a video of a dog running and you don't have one like that, they assume that you can't do it. yeah they want this exact video the exact same way from the exact same client yeah i i was running into that recently but i i kind of like it's what a client that we've already done work with and they were looking for a very specific thing and i was like we've done stuff similar like we can

do that it's in the same you know the wheelhouse of stuff we can do right so yeah but it's tricky with new ones they really have to take that leap of fate i also do understand it from their point of view because it's like they don't know you they don't know that you actually can't execute on it right yeah and it's a big investment when you think about it i feel like us being in this business it's almost like you kind of like separate yourself from like you know how how much everything will cost eventually but if you also look at it from clients perspectives you know obviously depending on who you're selling it to especially smaller businesses investing in video is a huge investment so they really want to make sure

that every dollar that they pay for the video is being put to good use, that it's worth it, it's valuable. And you just have to understand that and just help be as open and, I don't know if empathetic is the right word, but kind of like educate them as much as you can about what you can give them as well. For sure. It's difficult to, like you said, to educate clients. I find that, and it's like a little bit of a contradiction because

small businesses can't spend a lot of money and they end up spending more than they should because they're trying to save so much and cut corners in some places where they shouldn't. So they end up spending more than they would have otherwise if they listen to your advice. Have you experienced something like that that just kind of sticks out in your mind? Like a specific example? Yeah, yeah, because that's an interesting point you bring up, but we haven't really heard about that. It hasn't been brought up on the show before where, you know, when clients try to cut corners, that it could end up being more expensive for them.

I'm just curious if you have an example that comes to mind. I have a bunch, but like one recent is a client that we do frequent work for. But early on in our relationship, they asked us for a quote for a small video. we sent a quote. It was not expensive at all because it was a very simple thing to do. And so they end up not going with us. And then, like three weeks later, they reached out and said, hey, can you pick up the pieces? We hired somebody else. And it didn't quite work out. so we did it at the same price they would have paid in the first place so they ended up spending whatever they spent with this other person or company or

whomever plus what we charged and I mean it was frustrating not because we didn't get the work in the first place because you know it's fine but it was frustrating because we feel bad for this guys that they only, they didn't only wasted money. They wasted time. They, they went through like a whole, like, and I'm sure, like, I think we got like a V7 or something from the other company. Whoa. Like a version seven. Yeah, like a version seven. Oh, like version seven. That's a lot of revisions. Yeah. Yeah. That they never really were happy with anyway. So, and then, I mean, we, I mean, we, we, we know this client, right? so we nailed it in like to revisions no problem we've had similar stuff where yeah we've had similar

stuff where they came like they finished that project but they came to us for the next one because they weren't too happy with it but that's different that's different because at the very least it was at least for them they used it right a whole new project and they actually did use it whereas in your situation is i call that the client education tax you know so it's their learning tax which will help them over time. Yeah, and there's another example. In this case, it's weird because this is one of the higher budget projects that we've done. This is like a $70,000 job with it.

And we spent quite a few months planning and doing all the pre-production work and everything. And we kept on telling this client, Okay, make sure that, because their manufacturing is all over the place, and we were expecting a piece from somewhere in the Midwest, in the U.S., and we said, okay, so our should date is this? Are you sure this thing is a prototype, right? So we said, are you sure this thing is going to be ready? We're better off just waiting another week and have this thing here before we go, and it's like, no, no problem. Anyways, so we ended up doing the shoot without the piece because it didn't arrive for the day of the shoot.

So we had to do a bunch of green screen work and compositing afterwards to add that into the final video. So that is an example of them not really listening to advice and wanting to rush into things. And this is not because they weren't, or they weren't willing to spend money. It was just because they weren't willing to wait an extra day or two or a week. And we still had to wait a week because the thing didn't come. Then we had to set up another shoot. We had to set up a whole new thing. And it ended up costing him another $10,000.

So this is like, no reason. No reason. Oh, Carol, your audio is off. sorry there's like a lot of like horns outside of uh my condo so i turn it off every now in that um yeah no i was just saying oh sorry go ahead did you have something at carroll no no no i was just i was just commenting on it yeah um okay so we went through the early beginnings of your company jack of all trades master or none decided to just focus on video um where are you now like what's happened since you started focusing so

on video to now. So that was a very uphill battle because, again, we had to break away from that label of the people who, you know, who come in and save the day for cheap. So just increasing your pricing is very difficult because you're known for being cheap, right? So it took a number of years to get to a point where we were starting to charge what the work was worth. How did you go about that transition, like increasing your prices? I, well, first of all, okay, so this is a very weird thing with me, and it's probably the same for a lot of people who do what they like to do, because I enjoy so much what we do, that I feel unfair charging for it.

What? Like, it's a weird thing with me. I, like, I have a hard time asking for more money for to do something that I thoroughly enjoy doing. So

I know, I know, I need to see a psychologist. You need a business seminar, you know. That's our psychologist. I was trying to understand the mentality behind it. I was like, nope, I don't get it. There is no, no, there. Consciously, I know that, but when it comes to pricing, now, like, I've gotten better at that.

But, like, in that growth period, that was difficult for me. It was saying, like, come on, it's so easy to do this. Like, why should I charge so much? So, or how can I, more than why should, it's like, how can I justify, you know, charging this much more for something that is fun for me to do I think it's also partially that maybe you couldn't separate the hobby from the work mindset as well because when you're first starting but it's it wasn't a hobby for him he was already deep in the trenches yeah yeah I mean I guess yeah but there's a motto like this is already years into it there's a motto from a very

very important man that one said if you're good at something never do it for free oh he was a great man he was a great man you know what's the worst is that i would talk to people and give that advice like other people i would like because and obviously as you guys do i we would shoot like a bunch of business meetings and seminars and stuff where we're all in sales meetings and stuff like that where you're like all they're talking about is this and still my brain refused to accept that so I like I said in a in a conscious level I had this knowledge that I should but in this emotional level I I had a hard time applying it so it took it took a while so in the end how did you how did you go about because I'm guessing if you're having that

probably other people are going through the same thing so how did you kind of overcome that barrier that like mental barrier of like not feeling comfortable i haven't fully i haven't fully uh so it's ongoing yeah yeah it's it's you know like uh like those addiction issues where you you you have the monkey in your back and you're struggling to get it off your back so that's that's pretty much the same thing i is it because you're afraid of like rejection on the budget increase is that it no no no i i i don't have that problem anymore of of being worried about not getting the job although sometimes we do and and and it's weird because i've lost bids because we're too low oh yeah yeah i feel like we've lost them as well because

they they must have looked at like the other top like if we were in the running with like three people in total, like they might have seen that we were way below the other two guys. Exactly. Way below the average like an outlaw. Yeah, and probably lost one or two because of that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's happened to me more than once. So,

so yeah, it's discipline. It's discipline. It's really setting and looking at it as if it's not you doing it, which is not like I don't do everything. Like I work with a bunch of people here in the, you know, in the studio and the office. And as a business model, so it's not me doing everything. So there's a cost

and there's time involved in everything. So you need to really look at it from a mathematical formula, if you will. So that's pretty much how you get around. Right. And the other thing is like when you're trying to kind of figure out your new pricing model and start testing it out is usually is easier with newer leads and newer clients to come through rather than current ones. And maybe that's sometimes with the challenge where it's like, you know, like things have changed. Do you have a lot more work? You need to raise your prices. And then you're going to have that conversation with your current client saying like, hey, unfortunately, I can't do it for as little as I used to. This was something that Dario and I experienced early on when we were

getting in the industry because when we first started, we were charging dirt cheap on videos. and then we started realizing, okay, we need to increase a bit more if we're actually going to make any money in this business. Our problem was our jump was too high, like reflecting back on it. If we did like gradual increases, we could have kept those clients. Yeah, I think we were just a little too ambitious to jump too greatly. But again, it's a learning experience. You have to figure these things out over time and learn.

But you know, I think it was not a bad thing for me because I got rid of a bunch of clients that weren't good clients. that even, even, you know, just a small increase would have lost them for me. Yeah, some of them are like that. That's for sure. Some of them are definitely like that. I've noticed that with a handful as well really early on. So, I mean, it's good.

It's like it's a good housekeeping exercise that you get rid of some of the clients that, and I'm sure you've probably experienced this, the clients that spend the least, are the ones that demand the most yeah yeah in in a general scheme of things and and and that's probably to what you're saying that because they don't have a big budget they they really try to get the most out of whatever money they they're spending so they're very demanding very especially nonprofits are hard to work with because they're run by volunteers for the most part And they really have no idea what they're doing.

And I'm not saying this in a, you know, the meaning way. It's just, they just don't know. So it's very, very hard for them to justify to their board why they need to spend $10,000 on a video or $7,000 or $15,000 or whatever it is. And sometimes they don't. sometimes people just come to you and say I want a video and they don't even know why they want a video

it's just because they think everybody must have a video so they have no purpose or strategy in the production so it's you know sometimes I've you know run to the exercise with new clients and in the end they realize that they actually don't need a video at that moment and yeah it's probably shooting myself on the foot but I know they'll come back

when they actually know that they need a video that'll come back because there's a trust factor in that what's your question. What you just mentioned now, what's your like strategy session like when you sit down with them and kind of evaluate what their goals

and their vision is? Well, asking the questions that most of us ask you know, like what are we doing? Where is it going? everything but like for me one of the most important questions is why are you doing it like what you know what's a goal where you're trying to achieve uh and based on that we work backwards and uh and then you know try to establish the the right path for that because some people uh like i said

clients come and want something and they probably saw this very sleek Porsche ad and And they say, I love it. I want my, you know, my teacups add to look like that. And then you say, okay, so who's watching this video? Like, why do you want that? And of course we can do it. It's going to cost you $25,000, but do you really need to spend that money doing this thing that could be done for half or that or double that?

Who knows, right? So it's like asking the why is very, very important for me, for us, as a business. I try to instill that into all the people that work with me, like find out the why first and then everything else will probably fall into place kind of more organically. One thing you also brought up that was good

that a lot of people don't think of when you're asking the why. It's not just, oh, maybe I might be shooting myself in the foot by asking the why and letting them know that they don't need the video now or maybe later. But on the flip side, asking the why might determine an even greater need for the client and might need even more video work, as you just mentioned. And you could potentially be bringing more business to yourself as well, but also at the same time actually helping the client. Like instead, they might realize they don't need just one video, but they need maybe a series of three to five videos that they could post within a certain time frame. And that's more work for you and that's more content for them.

So asking the why is, it's all, it was a common theme on this show that we just, that just keeps being brought up. You know, it's just, it's so key to ask that question and then, and then everyone will succeed as a result. Yeah. Like, you're absolutely right. It happens. It, it's happened to me, like, at least this year twice already, exactly that scenario you described is they come and say, I want a five minute video or whatever it is, length. And then when you start asking the questions, the why and the, you know, where's it going, what are you want to do with the way you want to get out of it, then you say, you know what? Like, I don't think this format, this thing you're looking for is right for you. I think it's better if we do it, you know, spread it over, you know, make it a campaign more than just one single video. And that's going to, you know, it's going to live longer. It's going to get you fresher content.

So we ended up, you know, create a campaign for a year. that we produce, we shoot once every two months, and out of those shoots, we produce about seven videos, small, short videos, that they post almost every two weeks. So we have, you know, they create enough content that keeps them fresh, keeps them relevant for what they're doing. Every week, they're putting out new content that's well produced, that well shot,

that will edit it and and it's costing them like barely anything more than the if they had done it in a like per video basis oh so it's kind of like a retainer or like a pre-booked contract well this this this particular client is it it became a retainer okay um uh It's not so much a retainer because it's more like a contract. We said it was a campaign, right? Yeah, like a retainer for me is more like, okay, so you have like a block of X hours and we can do whatever we want it within those hours. And this is a very specific purpose with a very specific objective.

And like it's a project that's well delineated. Pre-booked. Pre-booked project, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What was I going to ask? Are you a generalist or are you focusing on specific niches? We were for the, I mean, I mean, everybody is, I guess, until you are like that really one, like coveted company for a very specific thing, right? We do take most work that comes.

We try to avoid events as much as we can. How come? It's just not our thing. But we do produce them. Like, okay, so let me be more specific. We try to avoid event coverage videos where, like, they hire you to get, like, just to make a recap, for instance, of an event or stuff like that. But we do bid and look after work where we produce. the event as far as the video and video content goes.

So, for instance, we produce a yearly show with a partner of us, a great guy who is an event producer. So we work together in a bunch of projects, and we do the production of the video end. So everything from the content that's going to be shown on the screens, to the camera work, to the switches, the switching to the everything else. So those projects we enjoy doing.

But if it's like a one-off where it's like a sales meeting and they just want a run-and-gun guy or two to go in and shoot the event and the barbecue and happy people and stuff like that, it's not something we're too keen on doing. Because, again, you can't command a high amount of money for those projects. It takes a lot of work. you end up with hours and hours and hours of footage at the end of these things,

that then you need to boil down to like a three-minute thing. So it's a huge investment in time that nobody really wants to pay for. So we prefer not to embark in those things. So if you're doing all the other content for the event, but just this one little tiny thing, you tell them, no, no, I'm sorry, we don't want to do it. No, no, we do that. No, no. When it comes with it, when it comes as part of the package, we do it for sure.

Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Not as a one-off, he means, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it's, because, no, no, no, no, but like, it'd be funny. Yeah, yeah, I'd be like, I will do everything, but except for this. Minor thing. No, no, no, no, no, no, we do that because, because then everything is, it's, like, it's intertwined, it's entomertized. It's amortized, the investment is amortized, you know, over the whole project. So, but what about, like, do you niche down into, have you tried to niche down? Have you? yes yes yes we are a hundred percent yes about five or six years ago we started focusing more on on medical work and and industrial work for many reasons like those are things that are I guess the that industry is a lot more organized if you will like they have a more They're more objective, like as opposed to, I don't know, like a marketing agency that everything is always evolving as you go.

So, you know, a medical video, for instance, we'll have a very specific and a very specific need that you can approach in a number of ways. You can get creative or you can get very didactic with that. but those are things that are a lot more enjoyable for us to do. And we love everything, all the technological advances that are happening in medicine and all that is crazy. So we really like that work. And then the industrial stuff, it's similar. It's like they're very nonsensical industries where they have a clear goal.

They have a clear path they want to go down. And it's easier to not easy. but more enjoyable for us to plan and take him out of that very matter-of-fact approach and suggest a more creative approach to things they do. How did you go about narrowing your focus down? Like, did you just look at your portfolio and say, I have a lot in this sector and I enjoy it? Or did you go, like, I think this industry might be good for us,

so you start doing more targeted ads or whatever? Yeah, so I guess it was like, of my life. I'm a little bit like water. So I go where the path takes me. So we started getting like we got a couple of jobs to actually a company from Spain contacted us. And this is something that happens a lot to us. We get a lot of hits for some reason. For some reason, my SEO just gets us a lot of hits from abroad. But that's another story. Interesting. company from Spain contacted us to do a product video it's a machine that they used in and surgeries so we had to go into an OR and shoot the surgery being performed in this

machine in action and it was like oh this is interesting the video came out great they were super happy and and then after that the clinic we shot at they called us to do stuff for them, not for the machine manufacturer. So we started doing a little bit more work with them and we figured, oh, this is good. Like, they don't have a huge problem with budgets. Obviously, they don't waste money, but they understand the value of what you're doing. And they're open to ideas and I mean, it's eye candy. Like looking at all those things is really beautiful to shoot. we started like gearing towards that more and more and it's been working out great so we're you know we've been doing some everything from um lighting for the medical industry to technology we're right

now we're working on a on a tech platform for the medical industry and and and like ORs and pharma stuff so yeah it's it's great we love it so was it but did you how did you what i'm suppose how did you expand in that in that field like did you ask for referrals from like that was a natural it kind of what it was pretty organic you know the more work we started doing the more our website become populated with that and and yes of course we started leaning on that on the ads and on the you know obviously if you have a page that is dedicated for that on your website you obviously get more leads on that so So, yeah, that's pretty much how we started, like, narrowing down the scope.

It got me thinking, like, how to populate some of our, some of our pages on our website to update because we've been meaning to update some stuff for a while. I'm slowly going through them. Like, there's a lot. I think I could go over this later. I'll be done updating all the 2024 pages to 2025. I'm averaging, like, two a day. There's, like, 16 left.

they got to do. I think in a week and we can some change. But those are the blogs. Those are the blogs. I mean like kind of like the layouts and like showcasing like certain certain types of videos that we do like say if we were doing events specifically like that updating with some of the newer content and then like maybe like changing some of the copy and the specifically that kind of like explaining more about the service offering and stuff like that. And then yeah, changing I guess with some ads later. There's a lot that there's a huge list. We have a lot of ads, targeted, targeted ads.

We have a lot of those going on right now. Yeah, that's good. Do you, uh, using AdWords? Yes. Um, we're in the process of not leaving, uh, Google, but toning it down in favor of LinkedIn. Oh, you do paid marketing on LinkedIn? Yeah.

Not yet, but we're, we're starting to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, got that direction. Yeah. It's going to be expensive. It's expensive, yeah. But I find Google is very hit and miss, Google Ads. I actually turned off the forms on the website because I was getting application, like I was getting 20 applications a day from a bunch of people in not one lead.

Oh, I know a solution for you. Just have a separate form for those guys. Like, tell them if you're... I had. Oh, they weren't going to it. They were just going to the wrong one? I mean, I guess people are lazy, though. So, like, they, you know, they're looking for work.

They type video production companies, and then your ad pops. They click on that and takes them to a landing page with a form. And they just fill out the form. There goes two bucks. Exactly. Exactly. that's a pisses me off too because I'm like how much that this guy cost me right now it's usually the voiceover artists too oh yeah I get like no kidding we probably get an average of three to five job applications a day

whoa there's 10 bucks a day right there on your Google you know what I've been getting lately I've been getting gambling people applying like oh my god I swear I didn't even know. What are they doing? What are they doing? I don't know. It's some bot thing that's like going around and it's like, oh, join this gambling website. And I'm like, buddy, like, who's running the script?

It's crazy. No, but I turned off the forms. We have no forms on the website. If you want to like contact, you'd either call or email. That's it. And that way I'm getting more valid leads. Are you getting scam calls, though, by putting the phone. number up there all the time that's why you just traded one one annoying thing for another

at least at least i have fun with the scammers but the problem is if you like the longer you stay on time is money it triggers something on their system where they go like this might be a mark yeah it's a real human let's keep calling him yeah no no like i don't like when i have an extra few minutes i do answer and and make them waste time as much as i do but uh it's more costly for them than it is for me to keep them on the phone for five you sure you know that those those five wedding those five edits that are in queue waiting you know you got to get that done i yeah i i don't do the editing so yeah i know i wonder if i want man i feel like getting rid of the form might be a bad bad call but have you thought about maybe having like like an assistant take care of that stuff so

it doesn't waste a lot of your time what do you mean like the weeding through the just going through like the like the lead forms all that stuff or well we have a pretty good system I just took it down because I didn't want to waste money oh like because of the Google ads they were exactly I see I see okay because like the clicks like if he's getting five job applications or something yeah that's what i was saying it's like that's 10 dollars right there and just wasted money like our bad budget was being eaten up by that's 300 a month just because people are trying to be like give me work it's like you're taking money you're taking money out of my pocket to tell me that you want to work and you know you know something very interesting

happened when when we first set up the google ads we started getting a lot of very interesting leads and and we got work. We were converting a lot. Then I got a call from a Google ad specialist from Google. Oh, no. This guy's the worst. I know. So I was like, okay, and she's like, yeah, so we can improve your setup and everything.

We went through hours of work with this person, and I lost everything. Like, I was getting nothing but crap. all my leads the whole point of the Google specialist is just to make you spend more money not effectively just to spend more money because that's how they make their money see that's yeah that's I have a feeling

I have a sneaking suspicion that what happens when you first sign up they give you all the best leads so that you feel like okay this is good maybe we can get more then they call you with their specialist that tell you oh yeah see how good it is if you invest a little bit more then you'll get better and then they just turn that off and then give you all the crap that's exactly telling you that's what's happening it's actually

it's and then you start throwing more money because you say oh maybe if i increase my spend i'll get more and and yeah so well the specialist well because the thing is if you do it yourself you're probably optimizing it properly if if you get help from the specialist they're just gonna like destroy it so now yeah you do have to spend more money and you are getting more crap leads because it's not a good campaign but if you do it yourself i think honestly like i i i i i i i i I restarted it about a month and some change ago, and it wasn't that complicated to do. And especially with like chat GPT, it was pretty straightforward and pretty helpful. There's some things I don't get, but I'm like, we're not doing like search max campaigns.

Like we're just doing like basic stuff. Because for us, like just Google Maps and basic search, we're good enough with that stuff. Yeah, I think, I mean, it's not off. Like we are running ads. It's just not, like, we're not really putting a lot of thought or money into this for now. We are going to launch a big campaign because we're in the process of building a new studio. And this studio is going to be for rent. Obviously, we're going to use it, but like this is more of a studio that's going to be out for companies like us to use.

It's going to be a virtual reality, mixed reality. like you know like like real time compositing type of thing yeah tell us a little bit about that because you were telling me that's cool in the pre-interview how it's not like an LED wall but it gives you like the same effect essentially right

yeah so so yeah so like the brief story of this is that we saw this building next to where our office from where our office is it was been there for like years and so we put an offer, we bought it, we renovated it. We're running into trouble with the contractor who was an idiot. We got a new one, and now it's being finished.

And so we're setting up a studio there that's very specific for virtual reality production. So it's not like this massive space where you can bring a car or anything. It's very niche. And the reason we started it was because we were, I mean, we are doing that work, the virtual production work, but it's very expensive to rent a place with a volume. You know, in Montreal, you can expect to spend anywhere between $40,000 to $60,000 a day to rent a studio with a volume. Oh, wow. It's crazy.

Yeah. And that gets you the studio, the volume, and a tech or tech. to, that run the volume, but you don't have an Unreal specialist, you don't have a, like, a grip, uh, DP, you have nothing. You still have to bring all your crew to, to the shoot. So at the end of the day, you're going to spend $20,000 more. So, uh, like, K almost right there, exactly. Exactly. So you need to be shooting stuff for like Nike and Coca-Cola to, to be able to afford that stuff. So our thing, like, we, started doing a lot of research a lot of testing a lot of everything watching a

million things and and we we found a great solution that gives you a very similar result without the need of a of a of an LED volume so I mean we're still testing the this place here is a mess we have like you know like a server rock in the middle of the place with a bunch of computers and screens and crap here that we're running tests in preparation for the studio. So the idea is that our client is us, is small companies that can't afford paying $60,000 a day or $40,000 or $30,000 a day, but that still can benefit from this type of thing. Like, who's, you know, I'm sure you guys have come into situations where you had a great idea,

but that would meant going to Miami to shoot something. And obviously the client can afford to do that. This would open the door to do that type of shoot. There are, of course, there are limitations like everything else, but there are more benefits than limitations with this thing. So we've invested a lot of time, a lot of money into this thing, and hopefully we'll be able to move in by June or so in opening, hopefully, late summer. Nice.

So we're going to have two, thank you. So we're going to have two podcast studios also. We should go there and do an episode. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You should come and hang out, absolutely. If you need some new guests, you know, you can fly us out, you know, give us the whole experience.

A hundred percent. I can put you up for sure. Nice. Now, we're excited to see what that's like, because, you know, what you guys are doing is something what a lot of, you know, small production companies are trying, are kind of like dreaming to do, but it's obviously not financially viable for everyone because we all want to have our own space. We all want to have our own studio.

and then potentially rent it out a little bit just to kind of make a little bit of that money back, but there's just such a huge investment that goes into it. What was kind of like that experience like for you in terms of like not only how long did it take to create the space, but to create and plan it, but also how much did it cost over time to set it up? So I won't tell you the figure because you're going to flip out.

I am flipping out. Now you've got to tell us. Come on. One million. So it's a longer story than that. This is a family business thing that my son has a bike, a bicycle shop. He makes custom bikes. He builds custom bikes.

My wife runs an online boutique store for gymnastics apparel. And I run my business. So the building wasn't purchased for the studio itself. It was purchased to host all three businesses in it. That's awesome. That's great. So we sort of spread out the costs and be together in a way that we can always help each other. So that was the logic behind it.

It was a good buy. It was horrible timing because it was right at the onset. of COVID when we bought it. So we bought, like, the price we paid for it was low. But then it was, I mean, it's been five years and we're still not in. So that tells a lot. Oh, right. Because you guys are re-renovating the whole thing, right?

So it was actually this place was, it was not abandoned, but unoccupied for years. This place used to be, this place used to be a Hells Angels bar back in the, like in the early 2000s. Wow. That's crazy. And so the RCMP, I think, ceased it at some point. And then it was vacant. Then a family bought it, but they had trouble, you know, within the family.

You know, you know, when there's money involved. Like, they could not make a decision on what to do with it. So it was, you know, vacant for a long time. and it's just across, like I can see it from my window here in the loft where end. And so we, you know, walk by or see it, and it's like, hmm, that's interesting. So we called and put it in, like the price was, like I said, when we called was very low. So we bought it, but then now after everything, like we, so we added a third floor and we increased the length by about 20 feet to the back. So we added about maybe like 4,500 square feet

of usable space. Yeah, so that's a story of the, yeah. One piece of advice that I'm sure is not necessarily relevant, but if you get into construction, really, really vet your contractor. It's the same as vetting a production company, but worse because the amounts are so much higher. so what are like how do you vet them like what are you looking for yeah that's a good like talk like get references like ask them for like a phone number of people that they've worked

with and make sure that they've done work of the same type and the same scope as you're doing because obviously we found out later that this guy like he was like a more of a residential renovation type of thing oh okay he didn't have the experience and he didn't know how and yeah so bad experience

but we're over it almost a guy making a deck he said you're almost done building it like June you said so the building like it's finished like they're painting this week oh okay so it's done then they're still work on the outside

they like during the winter they finished all the inside and then so so now to the specifics of the studio there was a big investment because I one of the problems I'm sure you've had that in where you're at but one of the problems are renting a place is that most of the places are not soundproof yeah and and it's a pain like obviously when you're not recording sound is not a problem but you are like there's a studio right now we rent in this old commercial space. It's a lofts. So there are a bunch of photographers and video production

companies here and everything. But we rented a, they had a psych downstairs in the second floor. Great space. I rented it not even thinking about the sound. Oops. And oh my, like a shoot that should have been done in three hours took us the entire day. Just because people upstairs, they're like they're walking so you have to stop and start and then editing that was an so so that brings me to to this place I wanted to make sure that it was soundproof so that's a huge cost because like every room has double walls with space in between each wall and like it has like double gyps like on each wall and it's all the you know resilient channel and and padding and And then once you've done the soundproofing, then you need to sound treated because it sounds like crap.

It's a huge echo chamber in there. So just that alone, we haven't even moved in. And I think just the plaster work and the framing must have been about $60,000. Yeah, that sounds about right. A few years ago, I was looking into just to kind of see. if eventually if Darya and I were to open up our own space what it would take to soundproof a space a lot of the places we were looking at had that same issue nothing was soundproofed and so it didn't make sense for us to kind of make a huge investment and so if we're going to do that would

cost at least 50,000 just to kind of set up the studio exactly the way you need to and then the problem if you're renting is that what happens when yeah and then that 50k can be could be a waste of money after three to five years if you have to leave or the contract or the building gets sold and they need to I don't know what could happen but it's only makes sense if you buy the place exactly like you did or if you rent for the long run like if you get like a 10 15 year lease then that makes that's so risky though because it's like you got to know that if you haven't done it yeah for sure yeah yeah it's it's definitely risky so so that's like that's how we went about it and i like that i like what you did with the family too it's like it's not just your

business you know the your kids your your wife's you guys are all entrepreneurs it's amazing it's it's almost like a dream well yeah it sounds really good it doesn't sound so good when you have to make the monthly payments when that money's leaving the bank account right because you got to supplement three businesses right there it's not just the one so But yeah, I mean, hopefully things will, I mean, things are going well. So I'm sure, I'm sure there's a need for what we're doing and there's a craving for that. I know we had it. I know we wanted to experiment with that type of technology, but it was never available to us.

So I'm doing it with companies like us in mind, like companies that want to get into that want to do this work. but just like even if it was $30,000 a day there's another studio that opened recently with a smaller volume but their their starting point is like $9,000 a day wow so so even that is like and that's cheap right yeah but again you still need to bring your lighting you need to bring your your gear your crew so so like you're looking at a 15 20,000 dollar a day proposition well so I guess no and honestly like think we're looking forward to seeing how the final product turns out so let us know so we can at least see some photos right a hundred percent and and like once it's all set up and like I mean you're not far if you ever come to visit for whatever reason like you

should definitely drop by and then yeah nice No, we'll definitely be there. And I guess you kind of answered this question a little bit in terms of, you know, like, you know, what you're kind of setting up for the future. But like what else, what's next for your business, you know, aside from, you know, the studio now that you just mentioned, like, what are some other things you want to do with the business, you know, for growth or for whichever? So, yeah, so the studio is like an aside to it. Like our bit, like, so we want to make sure that it's, there's a, there's an arm's length separation. Studio is the studio, it's its own company, it's its own entity, its own brand, our business, the I and D will remain doing what we're doing, but we're really want to, we want, like the plan

is to increase our organizational schemes, and you can never get enough of that, and up the value that we offer to the clients. And by that, I'm not necessarily referring to charge more, although that comes with it most of the times, but to really up our game, to really become that premium service without the premium price tag necessarily.

Kind of like providing more value for the investment that clients give, right? Exactly. And like get better ourselves and really learn more of whatever we end up doing. You know, like I've been saying, and this is a recurring thing. theme for me. You know, we go where the wind kind of takes us and make a plan of it. Like we don't let

just ourselves be like tossed around, but, you know, if we're steered in the direction and we see that can work, then we really gravitate towards that and aim to make the best of it. So, so that's pretty much where we're going at. Nice. Cool. All right. I think we can cut it off there. I think we had a pretty good episode that was great yeah we appreciate you Israel coming on to the show and sharing these unique experiences and especially when it comes to building a studio and one like like the one you're doing like that's that's that's definitely a unique one in and of itself yeah so yeah i look forward to uh watching the episode and like uh you know like the invitation is really extended whenever you guys are around please come by absolutely and before we end

off just give us a plug for your social and your website so yeah so our website is i andd films.ca and our handles for social is i andd films mtl so that's on uh instagram and facebook yeah we we don't ticot yet uh i've been a little resistant it's pretty good i know i i know it's just It's the time factor, but we'll get into that. Cool. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Israel.

Take care. Cool. Thanks for listening to this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Please make sure to follow and engage with us on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, and your favorite podcast app. Creatives Grab Coffee is created by LAPS Productions, a video production company based in Toronto, Canada. Creators Grab Coffee is also sponsored by... My name is Maran.

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