Creatives Grab Coffee - #106 Competing, Niching & Thriving (ft. Visual Production Agency)

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov sit down with Daniel Calleja, founder of Visual Production Agency in Melbourne, Australia. With more than 20 years in the game, Daniel shares how he built a resilient corporate video business through two decades of rapid industry change — from VHS to HD, DSLRs, and today’s AI-driven landscape.They dive into how video production companies can survive in an oversaturated market, balance pricing and quality, adapt to budget-tight clients, and find long-term stability through smart specialization.Topics Covered:00:00 – Daniel’s origin story & early industry lessons07:00 – From VHS to HD to DSLR revolutions14:00 – The rise of competition & SEO’s impact on video production19:00 – Price wars and the race to the bottom24:00 – Freelancers vs agencies & direct-to-client trends29:00 – Content creators vs production companies33:00 – In-house vs outsourced marketing teams42:00 – Forecasting, rebranding & future-proofing your agency50:00 – Outreach, networking & finding new clients52:00 – Niching down into corporate training videosKey Takeaways:The industry is shifting from production to content creation — and how to stay relevant.Why you should never race to the bottom on pricing.How to forecast your marketing and sales pipeline year-round.Why training videos are a recession-proof niche for corporate producers.The importance of quality, longevity, and investing in your team.🎥 Guest:Daniel Calleja – Founder, Visual Production Agency📍 Based in Melbourne, Australia🎧 Hosts:Dario Nouri & Kyrill Lazarov — Lapse Productions, Torontohttps://www.lapseproductions.com🎙️ About Creatives Grab Coffee:Creatives Grab Coffee explores the business of video production, featuring conversations with studio owners and filmmakers from around the world on how they scale, innovate, and sustain creative businesses in a fast-changing industry.👇 Follow & Subscribe:Website – https://creativesgrabcoffee.comInstagram – https://instagram.com/creativesgrabcoffeeLinkedIn – https://linkedin.com/company/lapseproductionsSPONSORS: Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.com Audio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca #CreativesGrabCoffee #videographyhacks #videography #videographer #videoproduction #businesspodcast #videoproductionpodcast #lapseproductions #videomarketing #videoproductioncompany #videoproductionservices

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creatives Grab Coffee is hosted by Daria Nuri and Carol Lazaroff from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors.

Do you have a shoot in Toronto? Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? LAPS Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. LAPS Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPS Productions.com to learn more. My name is Maran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto.

We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group band packages You can see our contact information in the link below. You're more than happy to help you guys out Make sure you follow and subscribe to creatives scrapcoffee.com. Thank you Thank you Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, fully. We service equipment.

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All right, guys, welcome to another episode. Today we got Daniel Collegia from VisualPegiate. production agency. Daniel, welcome to the show. Hi guys, how you going? Good, good. Okay, so let's start with the basics. Let's learn a little bit about you and how you got into the industry. So it was quite a while ago. I ended up starting doing video when I was a teenager. I was into like the whole filming event stuff. I got quite, you know, quite young into filming like wrestling shows in Australia because my uncle was a professional trainer wrestler when I was about a teenager. And And from there, I learned how to do, like, digital filming and editing.

It was quite new back in the late 90s, early 2000s. And I was fortunate enough to get sort of like an aim to sort of, you know, get into the whole film industry from an event perspective. And then selling VHS tape, so it was pretty new back then. And then I studied at multimedia, at uni, did a bit of documentary work and this and that, and eventually got into the industry by just networking, really. I started working with the corporate sector only when I was 20 years old and as a freelancer learning like the ropes with you know filming editing voiceovers working other people

content create you know back then it was like my script writers and whatnot and producers um I grew my business I learned I you know from other professionals and how long ago was this when you when you first started like getting deep into it so I guess like after what what time range are we talking about we're talking about we're talking about we're talking 20 years ago. So, I just turned 40 last week. So, yeah, exactly 20 years now. You don't look at it, man. That's some good genes over there. Thanks. It's not just good studio lighting. Yeah. Cool. So 20 years, you started your business. Sorry, so yeah, you started your business and

okay. So tell us a little bit about like starting your business to now. Like what are, Give us some, like, history on that. So I suppose the industry is quite interesting here. I mean, I suppose it's quite similar around the world, but I got to learn through working other people in other sectors. So, like, the first guy I sort of worked with, he was working as a scriptwriter for OCHNS videos, training videos. So I was fortunate enough to work with someone that was older than me,

learned how to be in like corporate meetings and how to sort of sell a little bit. And then, you know, at the same time, I was learning other things like filming sports, weddings, you know, marketing videos, interviews. And my dad, he was a professional photographer for a network when I was young. And so he helped me with lighting and he sort of gave me sort of some ideas on how to make things look really great with video because I loved filming, but I didn't know anything about lighting. Then I had to learn about audio.

So as a newcomer in the industry, I sort of learning on the way, I think we all do. It wasn't as simple as like, you know, just turn on the camera press record. Because I knew I had to like eventually get all these other things sort of put together as a combination, you know, when we talk about production, it's including editing as well. But my, I guess my real passion was to create anything that looks good and, you know, make that as as best as possible when I was young. Because I guess back then it was very different. You know, it wasn't really a freelancer world.

I was probably one of the, one of the, I don't know, one of many. Oh, sorry, now it's one of many. I should say back then it was like one of few people in production doing corporate video and sort of freelancing. So I was very fortunate to, you know, getting the industry early and build those connections as well. And yeah, it's just really learning from other people. And, you know, I also worked at a couple of places part time to sort of meet and network with people. So I worked, you know, my early 20s on a couple of TV shows, filming, editing, a bit of directing and producing. So that sort of gave me a bit of foundation as well of what it's like to work with a crew and work on pretty cool content.

And early on when you get into the industry, it always varies depending on like kind of like what the barriers to entry are. Like the reason there's so many now is because the barriers to entry are almost non-existent. Anyone can pick up a camera for less than, probably even less than $1,000 at this point and become content creators, start shooting video. And it's a whole different world now. But you said you've been doing this for 20 years. And from everyone that we've talked to that has been around for so long, it wasn't exactly very cheap back then to get into video production.

You know, I'm not even talking just the cameras alone. Like even video editing software alone was almost $50,000 to $100,000. So kind of, how did you? How did you break into that, you know, like in terms of starting up with those challenges back then? Really good question. I think I broke in the industry when it wasn't so expensive. I sort of tapped into the digital market at the right time. So I graduated in 2005.

So by the time it was 2006, I purchased my first camera and my dad helped me get the loan. We end up spending any, look, to be honest, back then, I think it was a great deal, $10,000 for a camera. You know, it was worth more. I mean, obviously now with inflation. everything, things are different. Like, you could see that $10,000 back in 2006 was a lot of money, especially for a 20-year-old. But I already had the good foundation of knowing that I had, you know, potential business coming through because I already had like a job come through from the university I studied at. And they wanted to give me a budget of $5,000 to create a promotional

video for them, so for one of their courses. And I'm like, my dad's like, you know, rather than hiring the cameras and spending all this money, one would just borrow, you know, buy a camera, get the load and you can pay it off. I said, yeah, that's a really good idea. I'd rather have my own camera. So back then, it was the HVR Z1P, Sony HD camera. And I still have it here. I can bring it out. It's cool.

It's like, you know, the handheld sort of decent sized cameras, it was mini-d-v tape, but it was sort of first of its kind to get HD. So beta cam and all that were like sort of phasing out and mini-d-tapes with HD and stuff we're coming in. And they also, you know, obviously more broadcast stuff, had the big discs. So, you know, there was a mixture of different sort of styles of cameras back then. But for corporate productions, weddings, you know, promotional and all that sort of stuff, these cameras were great. There was only a couple out at the time.

And, yeah, I got a lighting kit with that. I got a boom as well on top of that. And it was a really good kit to get started back then. And like I said, it was very new in the industry. Like, these cameras just came out. There was no DSLRs. And that's another story when I saw when the DSLRs came out. 2005, wasn't that the, what do they call?

No, it was 2008, R5? It was 2008, Dario. Yeah, 2008, 2009. I remember I had literally, my heart skipped a beat. I never forget the first time I saw a footage from a DSLR. I looked at it going, what is this? Why does it look so cinematic? And I knew straight away the industry was going to change completely.

Like, it was just like the first five seconds. I could not believe what I was seeing. So, you know, already being in the history for a few years, I sort of got a feeling that, yeah, things are going to change up a little bit, especially the fact that the cameras were cheaper. So, yeah, it was a good start. Did you make any preemptive moves, saying that around the corner? I did. I actually upgraded my cameras. So my next camera was the FS 700, which was a slow motion, 100 frames per second, really great cinematic camera for Sony.

That was stay-of-the-art when I purchased it. So that was my next big sort of move on my cameras. And then I upgrade audio. Look, I'm all about technology as well. I'm a tech geek. I love technology. Like, I reckon I spent more money on tech than, you know, people spend on frigging, you know, like investing in houses or something.

I don't know. Like, back then, if people said, like, if you use that money to invest in property, I'll probably be a lot more. You're rich by now. Yeah, I'll be rich by now. I was one of those young and dumb guys. I'm like, ooh, that thing for five grand is great. I'm just going to buy it.

That thing for 10 grand is great. I'm just going to buy it because I love tech. Yeah. You know, even $1,000 a bit of Bitcoin would have been fantastic back then. But no, you know, we didn't think about that stuff back then. Yeah, I know. So it's crazy how you think back now and go, gosh, what could I've done with that money? But no, I love technology.

Look, I don't regret it because I think that sort of helped me evolve into the industry. Because having for me the best quality of production really means a lot. And I've always been like that. You know, I see things. And I go, gosh, that looks so old. You know, it's because a lot of people don't care for quality because they just think that the content is good enough. But no, I think quality and content, the whole thing comes together.

It has to be good as a package. If it looks old, if it looks 10 years old, but, you know, people go, oh, that looks like an old video. Like, it just doesn't feel right. It doesn't professional to me. So I always have been cutting edge. Like, I always love spending money on good gear. It's probably a bit of a weakness of mine.

So, yeah, I've upgraded from that camera. I also had another camera, which was a broadcast HD. It was a big, like, X-TV camera. I was secondhand. It was worth a fortune when they came out. I was back then, I remember in 2010 when I got it, it was all about size. This thing was massive. I wanted to look like we are the big production company.

You know, it was, you know, and then when the people came up with D.S.L. I'm like, hey, guys, look at my big camera. And it was great quality. But, you know, it was trying to, like, show up the size of these big monster, you know. um so yeah yeah we always try to do different things did you add a map box to the front oh yeah i didn't even need one we had a tone it's like this thing was like i remember we were thinking of getting one i was like oh kirol people the clients will think were really high in if we had a mat box to the front of the lens yeah that was that was darry's first one that was

that was darry's first uh purchase early on that was like because he just got like the first expensive mat box that he saw in the store and we could never have to make a little no idea. Use of it. Had no idea how to, like, put it onto the lens. It never aligned perfectly. I'm like, who made this thing? It wasn't cheap either.

It was expensive. It was like $300. We still have it. No, it was like $1,000, I think. And we still have it. They're very pricey when they came out. The cages and the map boxes to make your camera look bigger and beastie, especially with the DSLRs.

But that camera there that I purchased was like an X Discovery Channel camera. Like they use it for docos and that. So it was like a lot like, you know, TV sort of news reporting camera, E&G style, which was, you know, it was cool to have, but it didn't last me long because once the, yeah, FS 700 came out and the new Sony's came out with a real cinematic sort of, you know, sensors and whatnot. I love Sony, so I kept in using Sony's best technology. So, no, I think, yeah, I'm a tech geek. What can I say? You mentioned that, you know, you started on, you started in the scene pretty early on,

so you're one of the few corporate production companies out there. How did you deal with the fact that over the years, like, more competitors started entering the scene? Good question. Early days, it was hard to know because we didn't use Google as much. Like, I didn't advertise, you know, doing, there wasn't really ad words or anything like that. Once SEO started kicking in, I think this was back in sort of 2000 and, 11, I'd say. It was probably a year where I really realized there was a lot more competitors coming out. It's because I started spending money on Google, SEO. And back then, it was very

different. You know, you could use some overseas company do like dodgy backlinks and, you know, you'd be first on Google. It was crazy. Like, you know, they used to ring you up saying, oh, would you like to do, you know, SEO? I'll put it on, you know, number one on Google right now. And it just happened. It was crazy of the stuff they used to get away with. And, you know, 300 bucks a month, you'd be top on, you know, number one on Google. It was so cheap. It was crazy. It was crazy. And I never forget those days. It was cool.

So I did win a lot of business, but I realized a lot of other businesses started investing in SEO. And that was the first part of that sort of seeing the competitors sort of come in into the scene. Now, I wasn't the type of person back then to go and have a look at what other people were doing because I was sort of stuck in my own world. You're not going to go out and meet other producers as much or other production companies because you're sort of doing your own thing. You're busy. But when you go online, you get to see the whole swarm of it coming through because you say, hey, I'm getting outranked you. Who are these guys? Who are these guys? And I think the first hit of it happened in sort of between 2010 to 2013.

Then it sort of stabilized a bit. And then I realized the biggest amount of newcomers came through during COVID, believe it or not. And just after COVID. Like I think, yeah, the amount of like newcomers and new businesses that came. And a lot of them do come through freelancers. So freelancers that are really great at what they do, they'll say, you know what, I'm getting busy.

I'm going to start my own agency. advertisers as an agency. Some of them don't even have a studio. It doesn't matter. These days, people work from home. And, you know, a big swarm of newcomers come through. Or they've been in the background. I haven't marketed for a while or haven't marketed at all.

And then suddenly, bang, they're on Google. They're advertising. Massie spends on AdWords, Massey spends on Google and, sorry, and SEO, social media, meta, the whole lot. So, you know, it's a combination of, like, a lot of people doing at the same time. which I found the biggest swarm did come through that COVID period. I don't know why. I mean, my assumption is that people needed more work

and they needed to do something about it. So they decided to advertise. Yeah, I think there was that, but also when you think about it, during COVID, everyone was stuck at home, right? And anyone who was creating videos, all they were doing, the only kind of content that you could really create from the safety of your own home was product videos. and there was a whole new market

I was kind of like seeing it grow like crazy like everyone was doing crazy beer commercials and it's just like someone in his room with like a beer on a stick just spinning it like very you know like kind of like a corn on the cob kind of style but like the shot is like with a backdrop and it's like with these really dramatic sound effects

and stuff like that but spec spots right not actually work I mean some probably did that as spec you know just for fun And then probably, you know, people started to kind of fall in love with the idea of it, do more and more and more of it. And then that's probably where a lot of people at least got started and, you know, thought, you know, this is something we could actually do. So true. And also the live streaming stuff as well.

It was, I think it was big during COVID. I did get a lot of work in studio doing live streaming. But a lot of other people started doing that as well because it was needed during COVID. Editing, from home. That wave that you mentioned that came during COVID, do you see that it's still there or has it like died off? It's hard to say. I think there's definitely more budget spend for marketing now from production agencies similar to ourselves. I think that it's definitely more competitive now because there's variety.

So I think it's a bit of a price war going on. Um, it's, it's basically, you know, how low can you go before it's not worth it. So, you know, I suppose depending on your crew and your overheads and stuff like that and also the quality of production you produce, everyone's competing price. And, um, you know, at the moment, it's a, it's really a combination of different clients or prospects wanting that good balance between quality and price. You've got to be really right there in the middle. Um, it's not easy to know what the.

middle is sometimes, but I suppose everyone's in that same boat because everything's risen, you know, you've got inflation, things have gone up. So our guys want to get paid more and we need to look after our people, you know, staff is important. So making that right balance between paying your guys the right amount versus how much you charge your clients is a hard one these days because the competition are looking at ways to reduce prices to keep in the market. And newcomers come in and they also want to getting in the industry. So it's always a real gamble between what to sort of do with your rates. But I still believe that quality is important. And, you know, you don't want to be racing to the bottom because if you do, then basically you're just

going to be doing it for nothing, you know? Yeah, because if you figure out a way to do, like say, a $2,000 job for $1,000, then that is now going to be the new standard, right? And then exactly where does it end at that point right yeah it's like like I've seen shoots I've been we've all been on those shoots where for example it's three four cameras some guy brought to to film everything but it's just setting it up on a tripod somewhere filming from there

setting up and another tripod filming from there like like the bigger budget would be four camera operators but in reality it's one maybe two people dealing with four or five cameras you know like there's a lot of those types of productions out there and yeah I've I don't like doing those. Darya and I don't aim to do that because there's a lot of challenges that come with that.

You know, also you can't promise that every camera shot's going to be used done at the best of their abilities, right? You know, it's a big challenge. Yeah, I totally agree. I think having one camera, like using my FX-9 now

with really good quality lighting and audio, is better than having four cameras that are done pretty much half-assed. You just slap the camera on, chuck a couple of DSLRs and there with no proper, you know, sort of set up. What's the point? So I think there's a lot of that going on. But I suppose, you know, it's, I don't like to compare because it's not good to have a, you know,

everyone's got their own niche. And I think it's important that, you know, everyone does stick to their lane. I think if you say you do everything, it's probably not a good thing. It's also the fact that I think these days, you know, a lot of freelancers now are running these businesses in the industry on the side and work for other companies. and they can do a cheaper rate. So, you know, freelancers have become somewhat, you know, a competitor of the agencies because companies now go directly to freelancers.

And a lot of my clients do that. And sometimes they have to because their budgets are a bit lower. And I get that. So I think there's a fine line between when a company needs an agency versus a freelancer because a freelancer might not produce the content. They just film it, and that's fine. So it's just finding that right balance between what kind of clients want the full package. you know we can also as an agency just given one part of it which is just the film you know

the camera operator or just the editing but most of the time we do the whole thing and um yeah it's it's a hard balance to know what's right in the industry now and to be honest with you i think production prices haven't changed in the last 10 years if anything some of the productions have to be cheaper now because there's a lot more people doing it it's more accessible cheaper equipment um so you know if you've got the best cameras if you've got all these big expensive you know red cameras worth over hundreds of thousands of dollars and you're out there charging you know five 10 grand a day for an operator what clients are going to pay that that's the thing so these days it's like it's not going to be possible anymore it's different now so having the right balance

between gear crew what you can charge is is a real it's a real art i reckon now do you think there's because you mentioned there a lot of the clients are going straight to the freelancers now Do you think they're just going to newer production companies that are just, like, more affordable? Because I'm trying to think here, like, there's a lot of freelancers, but I feel like the clients would have a hard time finding the freelancers. Because a lot of them, it's like, unless you're going around on Instagram or TikTok to find them, you probably don't have, like. It's interesting you say that there are so many freelancers now. I mean, every second person now is a videographer. Um, so someone knows somebody now.

It's, it's all based on network. So like, you know, someone's going to know someone that knows somebody. It's all about the referral now. You don't even have to spend money on advertising to get that sort of work. So if you're cheap enough and good enough to do it, you can get in the industry now, basically. And look, really, you've got to think about it. You don't have to get a degree to be in the industry. You don't have to go study for five to 10 years, like a lawyer or, you know, or an accountant or whatever it is.

So you can just buy a camera, love what you do, start as a hobbyist, and then start a business. So it's not really something that's going to take years and years and years of studying to get in. So if you just start freelancing at a decent rate and buy the right gear, you can start up. Just have a couple of contacts. Sometimes one client can cut you through. I mean, that's how I started anyway. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just now that there's a lot more people doing it because to be honest, how good is doing video production? I mean, it's like having a hobby and love what you do, but also, you know, running a business and intertwine that together. So yeah. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, because here, I was trying to, when you're talking about, like, how this scene's changed on your said, I was trying to think of here, and I'm like, like, have we noticed more people on the scene? And I think on, based on, like, my research with our own SEO, like, I've noticed a few companies pop out, like, starting, like, from the pandemic to now. That kind of, like, really popped out. There's a couple, like, like, very few, though, that I'm like, oh, okay, now the ranking in the topic.

I'm like I never heard of these guys yeah but I haven't seen like a lot of like like new new companies like you know yeah where I can tell it's just like a freelancer or two but I have noticed that like like the groups where you would find freelancers there's a lot of people applying so I'm like okay there's a lot of people out there but I don't know how are they getting directly I was trying to think like how could they be getting direct to client because a lot of the times like if you're trying to search for these guys like you're not going to go through 50, 100 pages of Google, right? You're going to go through like

first couple and then just find people through there. Unless you're going to be savvy and go on social media channels and try to find people through that. But even then, you've got to kind of have an understanding of what's good and what's bad. And again, you're always dealing with I think it's a mix. I think it's a mix. Yeah, I agree with you. It's a real mix. Like during COVID, I think a lot of people saved a lot of money. So there was a lot of rebranding, a lot of business starting and a lot of spend on advertising because there was money around. People said there was, I think in the industry, especially video, there was a lot more money going around during that time. When COVID, we had a lot of lockdowns in Melbourne. You probably heard it was

crazy here. Absolutely insane. I was very, very fortunate to get good government contracts. We were traveling around during the lockdowns. We did a lot of doco work, training videos, studio stuff. And it was all legit because I've done a lot of government working corporate in the past. We had those connections. And we also do a lot of marketing. But what I noticed is so many people saved a lot of money, including ourselves, to start new brands, spend a ton of money on advertising. So like you said, all these companies just risen out of nowhere and had the spend to do that. So all of a sudden, you're thinking, God, how do these people just pop out of nowhere, probably spending $5,000 a month on advertising? How did that happen?

Because there was money around. And that money lasted for a while. And to be honest, when you're ranking on Google with these production, like, you know, in this world, you can get some good clients. You're just going to know how to advertise, right, how to market yourself, have the right content beneath you to actually put it out there and show the market. But that's for like production companies, like smaller production companies. Like if you're talking like freelancers, like you said, where there was like an explosion of freelancers being available.

Yeah. Really the only way is is word of mouth and referrals because that's how we all started. Yes. We all started with mainly referrals in gaining business, right? So what's happening with them is kind of what's happening. happened with us early on. You know, we work for smaller companies, small businesses, individuals, you know, creating a little bit of content for them and then build a portfolio and then see

where we expand from there. Whereas like, as Dario mentioned, there's so many people in the freelance world. It's not like a company is going to go and trust all their marketing spend on a random freelancer, right? That's the other thing people have to remember. I think that, to be honest, what I noticed was also is that a lot of freelancers did have marketing spends because they were not just on their own. They'll team up with somebody. It'd be like two directors running a small production business that started up

from nowhere. And that's what happened. So freelancers joined up as as teams. It wasn't one person. It was a few or couple, whatever it was. Put some money together and actually advertise it. And that's what happened as well. I noticed a lot of like, you know, a producer and a camera operator came together and started a business. And it all exploded from there during COVID. And a lot of those businesses came around during COVID as well. So I I saw a big change in it. And then that's obviously why the industry now is changed. There's a lot more niche productions.

Like you'll find a company that's really good at doing, like, car advertising or, you know, real estate advertising or, you know, some of them like ours who do a lot of everything, but depends. Not we don't do everything, everything, but like, you know, the corporate stuff. Whatever it is, like there's more companies doing things that are niche, but also the fact that, like you said, they had the connections that maybe had that one client. and help them really start up i think we all did start like that if you think about it my first client was rio tinto or you know vic uni which was when i was 20 and that really got me going i paid

my camera off in like a couple of months i was really fortunate to start up and and you know in a good time yeah i guess for people like us that we also were well to even make it to the stage that we're at is is is very difficult not to like boast but like i think statistically like like most businesses fail within, what is it, three years or something? Yeah, not even. In fact, we got 11 years here, 20 years over there. Yeah. It's pretty good.

So, yeah, I guess there's good. If there are a lot of these micro businesses around like, probably a fraction of them will last pass like maybe the five year mark, right? And especially if like... Yeah, I think it depends. Because doing, doing business are two different things, right? And when you try to merge the two together, it's a... Yeah.

It's pretty difficult. But now, Dario... I feel like it's not production companies anymore. It's really content creators. It's changed again. You've got a swarm of newcomers come in. The young generation that are using phones, you know, like really cheap cameras. It's not about quality anymore.

It's just creating concept for socials at the real lower end. So, you know, something that's going to cost a few hundred dollars, something that we wouldn't do. But it's another industry where, you know, you can create an income because you're doing a lot of volume video, you know, small business. is they don't have thousands of dollars to spend. So you've got this whole new swarm of production, really low-end production. And I look at a guy, oh, I can't do that. But you know what? There's a market for it.

You know, there's some of the stuff's, you know, overblown, over-saturated, you know, the exposure's awful, the focusing, you know. Yeah, I haven't seen the content creators more often. But again, it's one of those things where it really, that really is a race to the bottom because you just need like two phones, a power bank and like everyone can do that basically. Exactly. And then you're a social media expert. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

And then you've got to know your socials. Yeah, like I remember in the wedding scene in 2022, that's when I started seeing it. And I know one of the first people that started that here, they were charging like $2,000 a wedding. And they had like 50 weddings that year. And then the year after I saw another company do it. And I was like, what do you guys charge? They're like $1,000. And they're splitting up between two people.

So one person would do, first half of the day, the other person would do the second half of the day. And then now, and now I know some wedding. videography company companies offered as an add on i'm like they're probably selling it for like i don't know maybe like 500 bucks just pay the person like just a buck in on age like who's not gonna take that up right you're so that that really feels like a race to the bottom and and it's that companies like ours wouldn't take on because it just doesn't make sense right like no no the quality gets worse and worse as you get to the race to the bottom that's right especially that's right that sense right because yeah like not everyone's going to

know everyone might be able to shoot Instagram content or like shoot video on their phone that's right but I even I've like so there have been times that like some of these shoots where I've seen some of these content creators the way they shoot and I'm like what are they framing like they're not shooting the important thing properly the smart ones the smart ones you know what they do Carol they copy you yeah that's right they see how you shoot and then they'll hop in and do the exact same shot yeah yeah like those ones in that sense but I was working with one last weekend where I asked her even afterwards, like, how long have you been in the industry? And she's like, oh, like about a year. And I'm like, at certain points,

I was like watching what she was doing when I, when I didn't need to grab any footage. And I'm like, it's like everything, like the subject is like in the far lower left corner of the phone. And there's like nothing of interest. I'm like, you're not going to be able to see anything. Like, what's going on? Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's Chen and Burn at the moment with a lot of. that stuff. I think that's another like a whole another industry. I wouldn't even call that production. It's just really Chen and Burn content. That's really just marketing. Yeah. It's just general marketing. That's not video anymore. But the thing is, I believe that people

in professionals in marketing don't even know the difference as much anymore. So you've got this whole like mixed bag of like what is required. Like you've got companies I'm telling you now that would go the churn and burn over the long-lasting production because it's cheaper. They don't need expensive production because they just want to quickly create like social media reels. I mean, I can tell you right now, a lot of government agencies do it, corporates the whole lot. Really? Okay, because while you were saying that, I was like, okay, I was going to interrupt and say like, well, it's probably just going to be like restaurants and small shop owners. No, no, no. Look, I believe, look, in Melbourne, because, you know, I'm in Melbourne, the industry

interest is a tough here like it's not you know we're not i think there's a bit of a struggle here i don't know if you call it like a minor recession or something like that i could say that it's probably is so if there's big major budget cuts things have to be changed um you know to spend money on a production that's done professionally is not sometimes their first priority so they're going to look at cheaper ways of doing it and that might be hiring someone at a cheap rate full-time that does social media, video creation, photography, editing, graphic design, content writing, motion graphics. I don't even know what to end this.

And they're the ones that get burnt out. Now you're talking about an entirely different version of the industry, which is the don't pay a vendor, hire someone in-house, and exploit the hell out of them. Yeah, that's it. That was a big thing during the pandemic. That was like a big thing. But then that died out after the pandemic because then I think they started seeing the results. It was terrible.

Yeah, but it's still happening. It probably is. But like those are also companies that are probably also not evolving, right? Well, he's talking about government. So yeah, I guess that that. Yeah, that's the thing with the government, right? Governments don't really evolve. Let's be honest.

They just waste money. It's so hard to know like why. I think, I believe there's just budget. It's like, all right, we're going to. to give someone 60K to do everything, they can't do everything. They're young, they're a junior, they get thrown all this work, and I really feel sorry for some of those people because they, they, you can't be a jack of all trades, you're a master or none, you're trying to, you know, I couldn't do it, I know what I'm good at and

I'm not good at every part of production because I know, I know that, you know, there's specific skills you need for parts of production, that's as a professional production, but you know, to be like a marketer of all trades is so difficult. So the industry has changed and evolved so much that I think generally businesses in general believe that one person can do it all because they just see it as general marketing. Video, content creation, social media, write content, check GDP now, just chuck it in, write some content, write some blogs. Look, everything. I'm talking like, you know, write scripts for your videos, the whole lot. Use your phone with a mic. It's fine. It doesn't matter. So, you know, I think.

there is a space for that, but I think it's a very tough one for the people working in those, in those industries, sorry, in that role, um, there's a lot of work has to be done. And I hear a lot of people do turn over those sort of roles. So, you know, it's, uh, it's, so that's, yeah, the other thing is that a lot of people don't realize is that in those roles, it's also very slow as a result of that, because if you're having someone doing everything, you're not going to be getting things in a timely manner, you know, like videos can take two to three weeks at minimum, right? Like, and if someone's doing that and they're on salary you know there's eight hours a day five days a week i love how we're just

i love how we're just theorizing on something we don't really no no i'm mentioning this because like our the outsider perspective i'm hearing this i like i'm mentioning this because like i i've heard about this from people that actually did work as in me too uh marketers and people and they were telling me how not only was it slow for them but it was also slow from the other people in the organization. Like for some reason, when it's their own in-house people, it takes them forever to review content to get feedback, to give briefs to help actually move the projects along, even if they're doing photo or graphic design. Whereas, you know, when they're actually putting money towards a specific video project with a vendor, there is a clear, specific goal and objective

in mind. And that's why we execute things in a timely fashion, right? Whereas in-house people, It's like, oh, we have, it's like having a pool. I love using this example. This is like having a swimming pool in your condo, you know? You know, it's always there, but you never end up using it. You know what it's like? And then they get overwork. It's like when these companies outsource a good chunk of their stuff to India,

and then it goes to hell. And then they're like, oh, yeah, because you've got to bring everything back here. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. The amount of times I've heard this and the complications did that. I mean, that's why I don't outsource to overseas editors and stuff like that, because I know the amount of management involved, and I think, you know, there's reasons between, reasons for hiring people in the industry, and reasons not to.

Yeah, locally and not locally. I mean, there's reasons for both. I think there's a space for everything, but I really run my business through quality production. I don't want to go through the headaches of going, you know, showing clients a, say, a half-ass project. Oh, here's an edit. And it's like, that's not what we want to. I wasn't on the brief and I'm like, oh, crap, I didn't have time to review that properly because

the guys that did were overseas and it's just become a mess and, you know, like it just becomes a whole mess. And then it gives you a bad rep. Like, why bother? To save a buck? I mean, yeah, you might make a few thousand dollars extra, but is it really worth it. I think our reputation is more important than making money on the short term. So they're coming back to like, I'm just thinking back to what you were saying before where internal people, it's tough for them. I've noticed now there's a trend between getting the production companies come in when they need and working with internal videographers or you know marketers that do

everything and I've worked with them before which is sometimes really really good it could work to be a great partnership because they support us and we support them and I've never had bad experience to be fair with people that work internally I think to be honest they're breathing again like oh thank God we've got you take the load you know take the load so it's like you know and they've only got a budget to work with so they can get some of that to you. So, you know, it's a bit of fresh air for them. So I feel for some of those guys at work in the industry internally, it's tough. And, you know, what else is there? You know, in this industry, what do you do? You either get a full-time job somewhere,

you run your own business, be a freelancer, what else? You know, it's a very, it's a very hard industry. Here's another funny thing I just thought of, though. Say they have like an internal video person or marketer right isn't another who puts up the equipment you know what happens there because those things are yeah they buy it they buy it through the company and it's all like that's that's that's yeah they want to save money hiring someone full time but they have to buy their idea tens of thousands of dollars on equipment no no they get no they'll get like I remember talking to one guy like this they're like I only got because you're talking about gear and it's like oh I saw what you guys have on set I'm like why don't you get that through the company

And he's like, oh, they only gave me $10,000 to work for the year. And I'm like, yeah, it's going to be tight. That's what I mean. Like, I'm telling you now, they don't give them good, there's barely good gear. You're not going to, the budgets they use for gear purchasing is tiny. Like, I've seen, you know, the worst cameras, you know, the worst lighting, the worst audio. But it doesn't matter. They, you know, because they're working on those really tight budgets.

So that's where, you know, I think it's good to have that, um, the comparison, you know, when they can do stuff like that internally they'll do it but if they need high-end productions they'll come to us yeah yeah exactly unless unless they're big you know yeah yeah like that's why it's like it's kind of fine that they're all kind of doing it even if it's like crappy content because it's like they're still doing it so they're getting their feet wet and you know practicing so now they know what it looks like when it's bad yeah yeah yeah it'll be easier to sell us to you know to these people yeah there's a time and place for everything I I I think sometimes you need that really low quality content, or when I say low quality,

just like mobile content, there's a space for that. I believe that, you know, some company should be just churning some contents through for their stories. Definitely. Definitely. But when, you know, when I talk to clients, it's more like, okay, do you want a video on your website that last five to ten years? I've got clients that have videos.

We created for them 10 years ago. And they still look better than some. of the than a lot of productions that are made today because we use really good gear back then good lighting the whole lot good audio well produced so our clients get bang for buck it's all about that longevity um i believe that's when they should use a production agency like ours or yours or you know like you know or anyone in the same field as us because there is a space for good quality content definitely tv ads cinema ads which is not so i guess prominent anymore but you know um yeah it's it's a good mix are you doing anything like what have you done this year to kind of

like um like uh recession proof your business i guess well i actually had a really really big year i um i was a little bit worried because i was off i was out of the business for a few months um i actually had a i had a surgery in the last year in december so i was out for a while. I was in hospital for about a month. So it was tough. What I do to make my business run is my team is number one priority. Like have a really good team. Like I was saying before, there's no reason to have to cheap out on this stuff because I believe you'll fail. And my my goal in the business is to ensure that we produce the best quality content no matter who is available. So when I was out, I had to make.

sure that everything was going as it was. The marketing spanned, the kind of stuff was sending out the productions, but I was very strategic when I had my operation. I was fortunate to actually choose when I wanted to get it done, which was in, you know, middle of December, which was that sort of holiday period. I didn't know how long was going to take me to recover. I had back surgery. I'm very fortunate. I'm very lucky now. I can actually get up and start filming again. But, you know, I'm not doing anything heavy. I do have a great team, like I said, So I can rely on my team to do stuff for me. I also believe that what we have done is create some new, well, when I say new,

I believe it's like refreshed branding and content. So I've always looked at making us look fresh. So yet last year we did do a revision of our brand, our website. And I spent more money than I ever did on our online visibility because I knew that if we don't, we'll be eaten up by our competitors. And when I say that, I do have my trusted clients and clients that keep her coming back because they love what we do. But to grow in this industry, we have to be above all that.

Reason being, you know, and everyone knows this in the industry, sometimes it's project to project. You might have a client that was absolutely amazing to work with. They love us. We love them. It was one good project, but that's all they needed. And unfortunately, if it's not ongoing revenue, ongoing work, we've got to be on the scout. We've got to be on the hunt to get new business.

And I've got, I know, people to pay. I've got a studio. Marketing spend. I've got a family. I've got two kids. Like, I can't just sit down and wait for the work to come in. I need to be proficient in our marketing and our sales. So I believe that, you know, being on top of the game in a sense of thinking forward.

And I always think forward. Like, what am I doing next year? Yeah, we've got all these videos that we're producing the next six months. which is great. We've got these clients, blah, blah, blah. But what's on for next year? Okay, cool, I'm going to niche on this. I'm going to do some marketing on that. I'm going to up the spend on this. I'm going to down the spend on that. What is it that we're going to do every year? And I believe that if you're not on top of that game, you're going to fail. You know, we don't know if we're going to be in business next year, but the best thing we can do right now is forecast what we want

to do and how are we going to make that happen. Yeah, you really need to hustle in this industry because, like you said, sometimes, like a lot of the clients we work with are great people to work with, but not every business or medium-sized business has $100,000 to spend a year on content. You know, there's maybe like a couple projects here and there that they need. And then you might help them two, maybe three times a year on average, right? So the key is that, like you said, find more business to fill up that other time, right? Like maybe you might get lucky with some clients where you have a consistent like, say, quarterly report video that you have to do with them.

So, like, you know consistently every year, you're going to do four videos for them with, like, a big AGM event or something to culminate the year. Great. Then you have other clients, you know, for example, that have a yearly conference, like, that comes in, like, clockwork or so you need to create a certain amount of deliverables every year. And that's it. You know, like you have to keep trying to find the different business because, like you said, sometimes there's a little bit of turnover where people don't need videos anymore. Like that one client, some of those clients you said that have been using your content for 10 years, like, that's 10 years. You haven't been, you haven't been, you haven't worked with them. That's right. That's right. Sometimes it's better not to make great content. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah, you got to do like, just, you got to find that sweet spot, right. You know, it's not the, it's not the, it's not the race at the bottom. It's the race. Next time, next time, next time buy the second best camera on the market. Yeah, that's right. Lower it to five years. Every five years. do a new video. We'll do 8K if your camera can do

8K, keep shooting 4K and then maybe later. HD's fine. HG is fine. Yeah, look, I totally agree. Yeah, true. Sorry.

When you said you're trying to like forecast or like get new business for like, you know, at the end of those six months and everything, are you doing outreach or are you just focusing on like SEO at-rude spend? We do a mix actually. So I, um,

we do a bit of outreach. like LinkedIn and stuff like that. What I've done more of lately actually because of my surgery as well because I couldn't do a lot of heavy lifting was networking, joining more networking groups. Spending a fair bit of money, I mean, that could cost as much as SEO, if not more,

because you're spending money on not just joining these groups, but you're spending money on dinners, Uber's to the city, running around, you know, drinks. You know, yeah, yeah, events. It adds up. So it's a great social life, thank me wrong. but it's tiring. It's so tiring,

especially when you've got a young family. So, you know, I believe that you've got to have the combination of networking, online marketing, which is a mixture of outreach, also, you know, also, you know,

bringing in business through, you know, your SEO and your AdWord channels. Social media is a great way to look good. I don't believe, for me, social media in itself has brought in a lot of business, but it has helped us look good. And what I mean by that is,

I can go to someone and say, go check out our Instagram, go and check out a LinkedIn. Because by them seeing the posts and the things that we've been doing, they have an idea that we're pro, we're good at what we do, and we're actually live.

We're not dead. Because a lot of businesses out there that don't do socials. If you look at their socials, to be honest, you know, you go to a website and they're like, oh, these guys are great. Let's have a look at their socials,

see what they're up to. You go to their socials, and I haven't posted anything for two years. They're like, are they even alive? Are they doing business? And it's a bit of a turn off. It is. Like, I believe anyone that you, you know,

if you're hiring someone to do something for you. So I think social media is like an add-on to our industry. I'm talking to the corporate field in weddings and stuff like that different. Yeah, like I think that is, you can build your business on socials so well. It's the opposite. Depending on the industry. Corporates in itself. Yeah, that's right.

LinkedIn's really good for corporate, though. I think that's a great way. to keep people off to date. But I don't see that as being a main source of business, of bringing in new business. I think it's a great, you know, it's really something that makes your marketing look great. On top of all the elements you have to put together.

Yeah, and it's also to keep yourself top of mind for people within your network and people that you've worked with. Because sometimes also clients and people that you've worked with in the past, They might have worked for one company. Then they moved on to another organization. And, you know, they might have, not that they've necessarily forgotten, but it's like, you know, sometimes you just need reminders of other people in your network, you know, and, you know, just even like reaching out to them and letting them know

that you're still active, seeing any help. And I find that sometimes posting even something as simple as like a photo, like a certain behind the scenes photo of yourself, like working on set that's different from what people are used to seeing. You know, it does drum up some engagement. on LinkedIn. I noticed that recently with the few photos that I posted. It does. Sure. And it's funny that you mentioned that it's so key to do that. And then I was immediately thinking of some of the, you know those like really big ad agencies that have like 20, 30, 40, 50 people? And then their

Instagram is like 80 followers and they posted like three images. It's like the complete opposite as well. I know. It's so true. I'm curious about the outreach. So I was going to say, can we dive a little deeper into the outreach because that's the one part I'm sure one thing I'm focusing on this year and I just want to pick your brain because you do it so like what do you do for outreach do you like pick like a specific industry and then within that industry you find your your businesses and like what's it what are your steps exactly yeah look I mean funny you mentioned that I I um I know a lot of people like marketing managers and stuff like that and um just give you an insight it happens so much and you've got to be really

careful because, to give you an example, the people I know in the industry that are on the other end of us that are, you know, needing production companies, they could get like 10, 20 messages a day of video people and agencies trying to like just, you know, we've got a special deal. Do you want corporate video? And they're like, shut up. Too many people. Like, it is that bad.

It's so much going on to. There's a lot of noise out there, right? So I don't want to be one of those. And I've done a bit of that. We've done like, you know, sort of touching base with people that need, you know, do you need video? We're a production company. To be honest, if they really were interested, they can just go online and find someone or just ask someone for a referral. So I think you've got to not annoy people.

But at the same time, it's important to do outreach. And when I'm in outreach for us now, it's finding a solution for their problems. if there is a specific niche that I feel is needed right now and to be honest with you right now I found a better niche for us and you're going to laugh but it's actually training videos because everyone's concentrating on marketing so much yeah I was like internal stuff right yeah I was I was thinking

exactly that stuff for us but the top top tier training videos I'm talking yeah like massive organizations from you know large government agencies to huge companies that need to have really specific high-end training something that can't be made with one person you need a full-blown team and we've done this countless of times for clients and I've done it so well I don't want to blow my entrop it here but I just don't know how other agencies can do it the way we do it because we've created a process that works and it's been fine-tuning that process so well that we understand how to do it so well in a time efficient, spend efficient way

with a good team without having the problems that most companies will face. So right now, we are going to niche down to training. Not to say we don't do marketing. We do marketing videos so well. I love testimonial videos and stuff like that. The problem we have with testimonials and stuff like that right now is every freelancer wants to do it and it's on the cheap. So it's like, you know, Yes, we produce really high-end promotional videos, but there's only a certain client that wants to spend that money for that. Brand videos, there's sometimes, there's a lot of competitors in that space too, which we do really well.

So that's another tough one. Events, look, I love event videos, but the market has shifted as well since COVID has been tough. And I feel for the event space because their budgets have really, really tightened. You know, some of the biggest productions I've ever produced were the, you know, events back before COVID. the Melbourne Cup. Melbourne Cup's the biggest event in Australia.

My business covered the whole thing with 20 staff. We same day editing, multiple camera operators, videos that were on screen on the day with, you know, so many people at these events. If you see the Melbourne Cup online, you'll see what I'm saying. And it was incredible what we did. I created a process with the great team that just produced video that was incredible

and fast-paced that people couldn't believe that the edits and the video was being done on the same time. know. So I've done all that, but everything shifted. So I love it all. But yeah, for now, we are niching down to the training because there's more of a space in that at the moment. There's a bit of a gap in that market. And anyone can try it. I mean, I can do training videos. And yes, you can. But the way I've developed this process with the team that I've created specific skill means we can create like, you know, 10, we've done it now. We've just created. 10 training videos

over 10 minutes each within a month and I'm talking like 10 days of filming edits to be produced checked over three rounds voiceovers scripts the whole lot scenes to be created shot list the whole lot

if anyone can do that I'll say good on this because it's not easy but we can do it and that's what I mean by fast-paced high-end quality like if you watch these they look better than some of the promotional videos you watch they are so good Like, we are so proud of our training videos right now. So, I don't know.

Like, for me, when I got something in my head saying, you know what? I believe, I really believe in this product. I know I can market the crap out of that. Or I can talk and sell that just from just being passionate about doing it. It's easier to sell. I was thinking about this lately. I'm like, because I was driving through an industrial area and I was like, wow, there's so many businesses here. But I was like, not all of them would need video content if it's going outside of the business.

but I'm like yeah internally internal they would all need it and I was like what could they do and I'm like well training and I was like it's such an easy thing to sell because you would just go like how long does it take one of your guys to get trained like in terms of like having to explain something even something as simple as like what are like the benefits packages like what does a benefits package include right and it's like okay well it takes if it takes your person your HR person an hour to explain that yeah yeah you have you have like a hundred okay so that's a hundred hours You can put a dollar value on it pretty easily, right? You can.

Yeah, it's a, look, I think training is hard, though, because people do it internally. So you're going to have the competition of the internal guys just cutting it up and filming it. Because some of it's really simple. I think as a production company, you need to do the more difficult stuff, the stuff that they can't do internally at all. Like the stuff that we produced, like last year and this year, we won tenders that are, you know, for training videos for the CFA, for example, which is the Fire Authority. country fire authority so they've got you know how to like set up their um every step of the way to set up their fire brigades you know like going out with their trucks every single step and the way it's filmed and cut and produced has done it's to perfection right and now we're doing

the same for a massive logistics company how to you know get your truck set up so there's no dangerous goods falling on the road from their you know from the trucks on the back of their trucks how to ensure that you know the truck drivers know how to set up their trucks um all the parts of logistics those big you know from from anything from these called you know these massive machines to like you know riding you know driving their um a forklifts everything from the specific like detail um if if that's not filmed right and cut right and produced right they're going to have massive problems in the company it is because we're talking about lives here yeah exactly we're talking about lies and they want these videos to last for a very long time so you know there is a

market there but i i believe that it's not an easy market unless you get the get the production and the and the process right um i love producing videos in area studio as well on the green screen that's another great to get you know using the teleprompter and stuff like that i think that's another great we've done a lot of that during covid it was great um but yeah i think you know for me right now and i don't know yourself guys like if you find something that someone else can't do do that because all we're going to be doing is competing against the next person that holds a camera. Yeah. Well, everyone that gets into this industry usually does it for the more glamorous type jobs, right? And we don't get us wrong. We always love doing a super

creative project every now and then, you know, which is like maybe, I mean, I guess it depends on the niche of work that you do, but maybe it could be like 80, like 20, like 20. Yeah. Like maybe 20% of the content you do is super sexy videos, as you said. Yeah. 80% of it is like corporate internal content. But the other funny thing I was just thinking about is that if you're doing a lot of internal content like these training videos for a lot of clients, you're also kind of holding on to your work product because no one will like those, that's not content that's going to be shared externally, right?

Well, that's not like, it's not like, it's not like, I know, but I'm just saying that that is like an example of how. That's a pay the bills type of gig. Yes, but what I'm saying is like, like Daniel was saying that like, that he has a certain process and a certain type of style of content for these internal videos that, you know, that is great quality. And the beautiful thing is other people, other content creators are not going to be able to copy it because it's internal and it's private, right? So there is that benefit in that sense as well. But yeah, like you said, those are the projects that pay the bills, you know, not the

most glamorous, but you know, no, they're not. People need them. Yeah, they're right. I mean, I think they're glamorous for what they're for. You know, if you compare our training videos to ones I've seen done from other production companies other people, oh man, like you, I think you guys would really not just love it, but I think you'll understand

what I mean because... You guys send me like an unlisted link after this, I'm curious now, you're like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking it up for so long, yeah. I really talking it up now, I know, I'm going to be be careful what I'm saying. No, I'm really, I'm confident in that and saying that because we produce them like we produce our marketing videos.

That's how we see it. Yeah. Why, excuse me, why level it down when you can produce high quality content? People love to watch. You know, I don't think everyone wants to see internally 10 minute videos that look like, can I say it, dog shit? You know, like out of focus, shaky, cam. a bad voiceover that just made on a microphone on a laptop not engaging it's a

PowerPoint presentation with this oh some of it's absolutely awful and you think about these companies these multi-million billion billion dollars companies that are producing this stuff their employees are going what the hell and they get so bored they don't listen to the training and then there's problems later on so there's you got to think it for them it's an investment to get that done right where marketing is another kind of investment marketing has and unfortunately with marketing and I find this is an issue is marketing managers are really finding it tough like I said I know a lot of them and they their budgets are getting cut down every year they're forced to cut down on what they can do they're forced to look at other

vendors because they can't afford what they could afford before so I I know and I feel the pain so I think it's a fine balance between getting the right clients but the right sort of niche and kind of productions as well So to our listeners and viewers, that confidence that Daniel had in pitching his sales pitch right now in his training videos, that's how you do it. That's what you need. That's what you need. Be passionate. Be energetic. He's trying to sell on our show. I'm like, I like it. That's how you did it. Maybe we need a training video internally, Dario. We should call Daniel now. I'll give you some tips guys. Our training video, Carol, is me yelling at you going, come on, get it done. We need to send it to the client.

We need to send it off, yeah. Where's the edit? It's in the backlog. The creative brief was due yesterday. Where is it? Oh, gosh. You know what's funny as well? No, we can't do a fifth take.

Come on. We got the take already. Let's move on. It's funny you mention that. I believe any video you make can produce the metaphors training or marketing or whatever, and this is what I love to do, is making the people that in front of the camera feel amazing and be their best. That's what makes your video is great. Because you're utilizing most of their stuff most of the time. If you can coach someone to be the best they could be,

no matter what you do. We do a lot of photography as well. I never mentioned that. We, you know, we just done like three big photo shoots in the last week for a big market, for a big government agency to do all their marketing photography, including other stuff we're doing for them as well, explaining videos and the whole lot. But, you know, same thing. I love those shoots. I actually have a lot more fun sometimes doing those marketing photography with my team or if it's just myself or whatever because you're just like getting the best out of people making these photos are frigging amazing you know like it's a it's a real combination of working with people and loving that sort of oh wow look a great that looks and having that passion still and it's funny like

i've been in this industry forever and i still feel so passionate about about making really good looking quality products um i think that's what keeps it going um if if you don't have that you might just die and flip and go somewhere else there's no point doing this honestly you're passionate about it yeah you got to have fun you got to have fun and you got to find how you can have fun in like some of the more air quote mundane type work that you have to do sometimes you know like uh like i i find like every now and then there's like something that we're doing that we're capturing something you know i i get excited just seeing like how i know it's going to fit well in the video and when i know like like i like i like shooting until i know that it's going to work well in the edit it gets a look in his eye and it gets a

little scary sometimes yeah yeah i'd be like this oh my god like we have everyone has a shooter face everyone has a shooter face we were filming together on saturday we were filming together on saturday girl at the church you looked so serious like oh at the church i wanted to take a picture of him he looked so scary i'm like yo bro chill he's worried I'm making sure it's recording, yes, it's recording. He looked angry, I'm like, bro, relax. Church. They're getting married, bro.

Filming a church is the worst. That pan, if you don't get that pan at the right time when they move out of there, that priest who's out of the way, oh, lots of a shot. At this like a look, his eyebrows look like Vegeta's eyebrows, he's sweating too. It looked creepy. Meanwhile, it's like the best shot ever. Yeah, of course it is. I've been there, completely get it.

I love that, I love that. Nah, that's why we love what we do. We get manifested. We get manifested with our content. It's almost like we're the talent, you know, in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should get people to shadow us on set. It'll just be like me making all these like serious and weird faces.

Dario having the most blank expression. That would go viral. So like videographers. Okay. impression of the videographer you gotta be chill you gotta be chill when you're filming

Carol he can't be all like he's got like a mind face though when he films to the point where I'm like where's the expression where's the

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm gonna look at me smile look at me smile look at the camera don't look at me yeah look at the camera

exactly exactly that's all having my producer on set I'm like you're speaking to him I'm not even here I hide behind the camera if I have to

unless I'm producing different story but if I'm like if I've got my producer on set you're talking to him and like it's it's like funny because I might jump in I'm like no no no don't look at me look at him look at him it's like you know it's getting that getting the energy right at the right

at the right time it's so hard it's so true like I like I know how it is sometimes it's on set like yeah don't look at me don't look at the camera unless I tell you to look at the camera I say that so often I like the goal like why you're looking at me look at the camera You can say to like a Joe Pesci sort of like, you know, any sort of arrogance. Hey, don't look at me. Like, you know, you can do it, Kirill. Yeah, you got the, I think you can do it. You can pull it off.

You got to be on a pain or mine list. It's like, don't look at me. I love it. Now, these will go viral. Yeah, yeah. These are a little, new social contents for creative script. Now you're going to do, you know, the whole like, you think I'm funny? You can do it.

What do you mean I'm funny? I'm here. If you laugh, I'm here to amuse you. You've been practicing that in front of the miracle the last 10 years. It's like we've done this before. This is literally not even a joke. You're talking to me. You didn't do the eyebrows.

I'm the only videographer here. You got to do the frown. You know what I'm talking about? You know what I'm talking about? Get a marker, put a mole on your cheek over there. Yeah, but I know. I got to do method acting. oh yeah yeah you're gonna do you're you're in this man you definitely create your own channel here

and get yourself viral like the expressions of a video you did you did yeah yeah yeah you did a youtube channel and they abandoned it ah there you go something we didn't know everyone started a youtube channel oh yeah that's a story for another day but uh anyway so i guess like kind of like getting back to like a little bit more on the the business side of things as well it's like so now with everything that you've kind of done like what are some of your goals for this year you just told you weren't you paying attention that was the last like 20 minutes we just started yeah i guess yeah sorry that's like usually our standardly end off questions so girls on autopilot sorry because it's uh people don't know but it's eight o'clock here and it's like

nine a m i haven't i've been on i've been on i've been shooting all day today i haven't really eaten anything either don't complain okay you had a gap of like seven hours in between the time you started yeah it was it was weird i had to be up I had to be up at like six in the morning to get to a shoot for 8 a.m. downtown. It was done at 9, 9.30, and then I had to be back down there for two. And it's like, okay, so it's like four, maybe, do I go home to work on other stuff for a bit? Or do I try to, it was one of those weird gaps in the middle. It's like a fine line.

Like now, if I have a big day like that, like we did a pretty big way, we just finished pretty we've had like photo shoots two video shoots the whole lot and um you know i remember you know when i get home i'm like i can't rest i've got like one year old and a nearly four year old and it's like oh man it's like the job never stops yeah the job never stops when you have two young ones and it's like yeah you know and and like especially if like you know now it's winter here and my wife was sick i'm like i need to pull my game and like you get home and like oh it doesn't matter shoot but i've just got to get my energy up against it yeah yeah yeah i'm like what a breeze A slight...

No, no. It's actually quite cold in Melbourne at the moment. I mean, maybe not compared to you guys. Like, completely get... I'm not going to compare. I'm not going to compare. But, but for us, it's cold. Like, it goes down to like...

He just has to wear a light jacket. No, no, no, no. But you know what? Melbourne lives there. He was telling me, like, it was five degrees this week. He's like, oh, it's cold. It's like Toronto. And I was like...

That's our fall. I was joking with him. I was joking with it. I'm like, well, it's 20 degrees here. Maybe it's a sign you need to move back. Yeah. Yeah, man. I, I, I, I, for you guys to be like some, you can probably wear shorts and a singlet, but I, we can't handle it. I tell you what, though, it's not the fact that it's just cold. It's the amount of viruses, like, everyone is sick. Everyone I

know that, like, is usually got, like, the best immune system has, like, just the, the average cold has, like, has, like, wiped them out for two weeks. So it's weird, like, Melbourne just copped it. I was going to lock down. I was going to say, he's going to, they're heading into lots down and give me the viruses there they got they got fevers here in canada measles there's like a big measles outbreak that's going around oh oh yeah yeah that's bad it's bad and i think like now especially we shoots it's so hard to like pre-organize you got like you know stuff that are sick like when we went to our shoot last week the main marketing manager was sick she she couldn't come out in sight but we had it all covered and you know she had her other assistant colleague there but you know you just

you don't know you know and it's really hard to to organize shoots when everyone's getting sick here i notice like people i started coming back to work sick like i've seen it a couple of times yeah yeah i've been really lucky touch get away from me man i got i got i got shoots coming get me that's what happened yeah yeah yeah my wife was so sick last week i'm like you just can't get me sick i got so much on stay away which is what they tell you like after the facts or like after you've done working with them i'm like actually i've been sick lately and you're like you tell me now like I shook your hand everything like shook hand touch my camera touch my face sneezing on you without like hey where you sick stay safe stay safe it's stay safe yeah it is that was

one thing I liked about the pandemic was that when people got sick they stayed home yeah now you have to go to work you got stuff to do yeah out the window that went yeah I know I know well you know what's funny you say girl like you know I believe right now survival mode just get through this cold, you know, as we call it cold season. I'm not going to compare to you guys. But, you know, get through this winter season. Brisk, yeah, yeah. You know, apparently we're...

Well, Melbourne's closer to Antarctica than we are to Queensland, apparently. I saw this thing online. So, we got some cold coming through, you know. It's the cold Antarctic winds, you know? And when we film our side, it is chilly. Like, we're rugged up. Like, it's like we're dying out there. But, yeah, can't...

Wait a minute, wait a minute. How are you closer to the Antarctic? Wait, to... Oh, sorry. I thought you said... You're saying Melbourne is more south of Australia. I confused Antarctic Ocean with Atlantic. I'm like, wait a minute, how is he closer to the...

No, no, no, no, no. Clearly, it's get... Clearly, we're needing food. That's what's happening right now. Oh, I ain't either. No, I haven't had... I literally got home like 15 minutes before the call, so I haven't had the chance to eat anything yet.

The time difference, yeah. Let's keep this going another hour. Yeah, let's just get him going. Let's see how long he can go for. He might get more impersonations coming out of him. He starts getting delusional and stuff. Yeah, I just start hallucinating a little bit. This is what we do for our listeners.

Well, is anything else that you like me to speak about? I'm happy to chat about anything. Well, we could, let's end off with Carol's Gambit impersonation. My Gambit impersonation? The guy from, uh, from that, um, from X-Men? What's it called? Deadpool 3. What was the guy, uh, Channing Tatum's character?

Is that Gambit? What's that guy? name oh my god oh yeah how did that go i'm about to make a name for myself i'm about to make a name for myself why's he irish you screwed it up that's the hunger that's the hunger talking at that point okay i just watch i just finished watching mob land have you guys seen mobland i just finished watching so good is it good yeah yeah it's really oh is that with uh slice tom hardy tom hardy and um is there a show or uh ps brosman is it it he's like the mob

oh okay oh I think I saw some promo photos for that yeah oh it's so good I just finished it decent ratings oh this is the stuff

we need to get into guys high in production yeah yeah no you need to get these triple A actors on our on our shoes you don't want season one

of internal video season two you know like Bank one season one Bank two season three we'll start selling it

like that, you know, like gold, it's over, but it's like season one, season two. YouTube channel. Hey, you know what, the thing about Copra Kai, I mean, I know I got the actors, but Copra Kai started on YouTube on the YouTube channel, and then they went to Netflix. You've got to think, like, even if you don't have like AAA actors, but you've got decent actors. And like, you can start something that has, is a little bit different and some compelling content.

You never know, you can get picked up. I don't know much about the industry. The Cobur Kai was based on the karate kid, though. Yeah, I know. What is it? Wait, I know. I know. What is it a production company owners that like hit the 20 year mark? And then now they're like, I need to start creating my own start. Because you're like, everyone that's brought this up, how they're going to start creating their own OG content. It's always they've been in business at least 20 years. It's a revolution. It's like, pick up bored. That's like, what's else? You know, like, I always think about what I'm going to do after this. I'm like, I don't think I can do anything after this. This is it for me. No, no. This is our career. guys. I got a young family. I know, no, I got a young family. It's not going to happen. I mean, I've made myself, you know, I've situated myself, like, yeah, yeah, I live only

five minutes away from the studio here. We've done this, you know, strategically, like, everything's all set. I'm actually going to renovate this studio this year some time. I've been waiting for my recovery for my surgery so I can do a bit more work. So we're going to just knock down some walls, make it one bigger studio, just do some more stuff in here. I really want to do like podcasts in here. Maybe even rent it out. Just change, you know, the whole podcasting like you guys are doing.

It's great. And by having it in here. Yeah, just evolve. It might not be a big winner financially because, you know, I know podcast is a different kind of business. But even if we do something a little bit different on the side, just, yeah, like you said, evolve. I'm just thinking of, you know, thinking forward. So you never know. You never know.

And look, I, there's always got to be content to be created. There's always stuff that has to be created. but do we still fit in the market and how is the question that is a great sentiment and i think that's a great high to end off under that question everybody wants to go eat i'm just happy you didn't say that the standard templated thing of i'm going to make a documentary because of like the last like 10 people said oh i'm going to make a documentary now yeah It's always documentary. I always, like, resort to that.

I got mates that are in the industry that will call me up, like, man, we've got to do a documentary. I'm like, it's always documentary. On what? On what? Who's going to, and then on top of that, like, we need funding. There's a lot of work that goes into that. There's a lot of work that goes into that.

You know, where are we going to get that 100 grand to pay the guys? But anyway, that's another story. You know, that's, you know, I would love to do something like that. And I think this is another thing, how and why. Yeah. If the budget is there, anything. is possible, I think. But is the budget there?

That's another question for you guys to remember. What came first? The budget or the production? The budget. That's what it is nowadays, right? I know, I know. You want to create. They're like, I'll create the production,

then we'll see if we can pay you. Like, no, no, it doesn't work like that. That's just short films. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 100%. But anyways. Daniel, thanks again for joining us on Creators Grab Coffee.

I like how we got to shoot the shit a little bit towards the end. Real fun. Had an absolute ball. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And I hope we get to catch up soon. Maybe we'll have another catch up in a year or so, see where everything's at. Yeah.

Yeah, man, definitely. We'll definitely keep in touch and shoot the shit like the last time when we almost did this recording. But someone was in their kitchen instead of their own studio. I wasn't ready. Wasn't ready. No, I want to check, guys. Well, all right. So for our listeners and viewers, this concludes the end of the free episode.

And now for our Patreon listeners, we're going to continue for another two hours. Kirol, don't leave just yet. We're going to keep this going. Enjoy, guys. All right. All right. Thanks, man. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Take care.

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