Creatives Grab Coffee - #109 Vertical Dramas, Values, & Hard Times (Ft. Corbin Visual)

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, Jon Corbin — Founder of Corbin Visual — returns for his third appearance on the show, making him the official CGC Champ.  Jon dives into the new era of creative entrepreneurship: How vertical dramas are transforming storytelling online, why client value beats trend-chasing, and what it takes to stay profitable during hard economic times in the video industry.Timestamps 00:00 — Intro 02:18 — Jon returns: The Hat-Trick Episode  07:25 — From trend-chasing to client-value 11:33 — Understanding real business challenges 18:32 — Outbound vs. inbound sales realities 27:47 — The new bar for “good enough” in marketing 33:59 — Adapting in tough economic times 41:07 — The isolation of being a creative business owner 52:16 — Enter: Vertical dramas 55:10 — Hiring the right team + not doing it all yourself 1:04:27 — Staying ahead of industry shifts 1:25:17 — What’s next for Jon & the future of CV  1:26:40 — Sign-off🎙️ About Our GuestJon CorbinFounder & Creative Director — Corbin VisualToronto-based creative agency specializing in video strategy, branded content & next-gen storytelling formats.🎧 Hosts:Dario Nouri & Kyrill Lazarov — Lapse Productions, Torontohttps://www.lapseproductions.com🎙️ About Creatives Grab Coffee:Creatives Grab Coffee explores the business of video production, featuring candid conversations with studio owners and filmmakers around the world on scaling, creativity, and industry evolution.👇 Follow & Subscribe:Website – https://creativesgrabcoffee.comInstagram – https://instagram.com/creativesgrabcoffeeLinkedIn – https://linkedin.com/company/lapseproductionsSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca#CreativesGrabCoffee #videographyhacks #videography #videographer #videoproduction #businesspodcast #videoproductionpodcast #lapseproductions #videomarketing #videoproductioncompany #videoproductionservices

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creatives Grab Coffee is hosted by Daria Nuri and Carol Lazaroff from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors.

Do you have a shoot in Toronto? Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? LAPS Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. LAPS Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPS Productions.com to learn more. My name is Maran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto.

We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group band packages You can see our contact information in the link below. You're more than happy to help you guys out Make sure you follow and subscribe to creatives scrapcoffee.com. Thank you Thank you Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post-sound, ADR, fully, we service equipment, we do all your audio needs here in Toronto. We got you covered. Come on down. Audioprocess.com.

Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to creativesgrabcoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. And we're all going to have a real good time. And now, let's begin the show. Welcome to yet another episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. And today we have, our third ever appearance from John from Corbyn Visual. Welcome, John. Thank you for having me. This would make me the champ, right? Yeah, yeah. This is what we call the hat trick. It's the hat trick. Three-time alumni. Yeah, this is how I come out of the, three-time alum, yeah. Come down the tunnel. Yeah, no, it's cool. I listen, I think it's exciting,

guys. I think I was mentioning you before we started. It's the only podcast of its type, of its kind, you know, it's the only that I've heard of at least that really explores the nooks and crannies. And I think it started out as just kind of like a bit of a vision, just a fleeting idea. And you guys have turned it into something that's not just meaningful, but it adds a lot of value to people who listen. So I think it's, it's super cool what you've been able to keep up. And I'm sure it's been just great for your own education as well, you know. No, we really appreciate it. And it got me. thinking like the very first steps you were one of the first guests that we had on the podcast

and I remember when we first interviewed you on the show we were kind of thinking to ourselves you know what like like we're just trying to kind of keep ourselves you know busy at that point but we didn't realize that we were going to start actually learning and we started asking you questions and things like it's like oh shit like Dario I don't think we I don't think we know what we're doing right now clearly yeah so that basically started it Yeah, no, nobody, nobody's paths are the same. Nobody's superpowers are the same, right? So you just, I think that's the best part of just chatting with people is you just get their perspective. And I think you find that it does start, the more you speak to people, the more you realize it's not competition, it's community, you know, and you can get a lot from people. Most people are willing to share. You just kind of have to ask them. Otherwise, they, they, they, they, They don't share, you know? So I think you've been able to have a lot of people share a lot of things, which is, which is super cool. Yeah. And now we're basically 100 episodes later since we interviewed you for the first time. And five years later, too.

And five years. Yeah. Five years. Oh my God. September 2020 was the inception. Yeah. And I think it's exactly, exactly 100 episodes at this point. And no, no, we're past 100 episodes. No, no, I meant like 100 episodes from his interview, basically, right? Oh, yeah, potentially, yeah. Something like that. But anyway, in that time, like a lot of things have happened, you know, not only on our end, but especially on your end as well. So, like, give us a little bit of an update for our listeners who have been here since episode, I guess, four or five.

I guess since your last appearance, which must have been a year or two ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third time, Carol, remember? Yeah, yeah. It was midway, yeah. you'd have to remind me I need we need to ask AI this I think it was 2023 last time you were on so what's been you with you since 2023 um I think like I think the first time we spoke I was talking a lot about like personal brand and then the second time we spoke we're talking a lot

about, like, influencer and creator marketing, which are kind of, like, sort of connected. I think this is just to the best of my memory. And then now it just feels like we've just come, man, like five years is a long time. Two years is a heck of a long time. Now it just feels like we're, I've graduated to a rhythm where I understand what I do a lot better. I understand who my clients are a lot more, a lot more effectively. I just, I think I just have a much better handle on the industry and what it is and what it isn't.

I think when I'm, I don't know what I was say when I was younger two years ago, when I was still, still plenty like mature in my, in my career. You're, you're, I've always been kind of like chasing trends. And I think that's just been a bit of a hallmark of, um, what I've always done is not just trends, but just kind of like really leaning in first, really being an early adult. from drones to VR to influencer marketing to to podcasts. I was making a podcast 15 years ago. I didn't have the stain power that you guys did. I didn't have all these tools and vehicles, but I've always been about like kind of exploring gimmicks. That's not the right word, but you know, building new relationships based on selling services, which aren't yet commoditized. That's always been like the best avenue to new relationships. And now it feels like, especially with AI, like that entire model is kind of collapsed.

And now the only thing that matters is providing like value, consistent value. And I used to define myself based on what was new and exciting that I was doing. And I continue to do new and exciting things. But I think I have a much more client-centered lens and a client-centered focus now, as opposed to just kind of being a bit more. driven by my own creative ego to just explore and create and do that. Now it's like, hey, like, is this a business or a hobby, you know? And so I'm really focused on client value more than ever. And I'd say that's the biggest jump per leap. And it's funny that you mentioned that

because exploring things that are exciting and new is something that is one of the reasons why a lot of us jump into this industry because we want to keep experiencing something exciting in you. And I feel like everyone has tried something like that at some point and have seen some success in that regard kind of like how you mentioned where you start like a new trend or something like that or you're exploring a new trend and then you attract certain clients who are also excited by that trend and a good example of this that where dario and i tried it is basically i want to just say is that it's not for everyone we tried it with the 360 video when it first came out in like 2016 and invested in a lot of equipment to try to make that work. But sometimes there's a huge cost to being an early

adopter and the new and exciting things where things are not ready yet necessarily, right? Like we definitely attracted some clients at that point where, you know, they were like, oh yeah, let's try some 360 video. So we were able to build some relationships with that. But it wasn't something that is, we found that it wasn't something that was sustainable, right? And trying to kind of like stick to something, as you said, like client focused and client centered and our approach with everything was able to kind of help. keep a better longevity, even when we weren't really set up as a business at that point, because 2016, as we mentioned, was still kind of like just Dario and I hanging around

shooting video and, you know, shooting the shit. Listen, business has come in all shapes and sizes. And just because you are more of kind of like an operator than you were a strategist doesn't make your business any less legit or viable. I think a lot of it is probably just insecurity. you know, about our own growth and maturity that we're constantly challenging ourselves to level up with. But to your point about chasing these trends, like, yeah, it's like, okay, so you have their attention and now what? And I think I've heard, either we've spoken about this or I've heard you

talk about this on an episode, it's like the easiest people to sell to are the people who are already buying from you. And so if you're just chasing the format and trying to chase more of those 360 degree formats or whatever, and you're not then trying to sell into their company with more long-term value as opposed to just kind of like top of the funnel attention-grabbing gimmicks, then that's the missed opportunity. And so I think when you're focusing too much on the trend and not on the client's business, that's when you can kind of take your eyes off the prize and it's I don't think it's that if you got clients then it was success but it was just kind of like the new technology is just a means to build relationships it's less effective

as like a long term tool because the tools are changing the trends are changing what what's omnipresent is client value and so how to not get distracted with the shiny new things and really stay just client focused especially as creative people like that's the hard part because we just, we enjoy that journey so much that sometimes you got to remember, hey, no, this is about dollars in and dollars out. And how do we get more dollars in by adding as much value as possible? And so, I'm sorry. Can you like explain a bit more about like, your change to focusing more on client value? Because I'm trying to think of like the stuff you were creating and are creating and how that's different from where you are now.

because like before where you may be like trying to pitch a lot more different ideas from what the client was coming to you for is that the um yes and no I think it's it's the things that I was being hired for per se still add value it's a thing that they needed as a service or product I was able to deliver but I was less curious about the business insights you know a few years ago I really really, this is like maybe 20, 22, I went all in, all in. Actually, Dario, you shot this for me, that employer brand video. Do you remember that? All right, my buddies, tech company shooting some recruitment videos for him. And then I did a talking head about what employer brand is. That was the most watched LinkedIn video I'd ever made because I realized like employer brand,

like presenting your business as a great place to work, a great place to grow. It's not just culture. like it's kind of culture repackaged as employ your brand and when you can zoom out a little bit and focus on the business challenge like that the client is experiencing you start to see things a little bit differently than like what's the project and how is my project how is this particular project solving a very specific problem now it's like you zoom out and you're like oh my god there's a supply and demand imbalance in the tech industry tech companies it's it's a to find the best talent possible so they can scale their organizations, okay, what can I do with that insight? What types of videos are going to help solve that problem? What other types of solutions potentially could I scratch around and could I pitch to help solve the business challenge, like the macro business challenge, as opposed to the micro, let's say, video request. Video requests. That's a big deal, of course. But it's starting to think more.

like a C-suite and less like a vendor service provider. And then you can just kind of shift your POV a little bit. So that's how I'd answer that question, I guess. That makes sense. You're focusing more on like what you can offer past just what they're coming to you for, like really diving into like future video strategies for your clients then. Yeah. Yeah. Like if it's an employer brand problem, then you can explore that entire kind of sandbox, right? It's like, is it people who have never heard of your company? What do we need to tell them about? Okay, what about people who have heard of your company but are now in like a very competitive salary pitch? You know, where are they at in the sales funnel? And how can you help create content to solve? the full life cycle of that problem as opposed to just making the specific video that you're being requested that's being requested of you. So yeah, being a lot more. Yeah. How have you seen your relationships evolve now with this kind of different focus? Has there also been kind of like a shift

in maybe the types of clients you've been attracting now that you've kind of started focusing on this approach a bit more? Sort of, sort of. Like, I'd say what I did is I just kind of looked at my own portfolio of work and I tried to spot the trends and the things that connect the work that I do. And then I could realize, oh, I'm really good at solving product education challenges for tech companies or employer brand problems for professional service firms, you know? And again, it's just literally scrolling through the videos and being like, okay, what is the same about all

these things? And so I wouldn't say that I've gone after different clients. It's actually helped me kind of pursue more of the same clients and my ability to sell successfully into certain industries or companies, there seems to be some winks and some hints in my portfolio. And so that's kind of helped me shape what I'm good at. You know, sometimes you just kind of, what have I had success selling? Oh, maybe I should do more of that. It's kind of the answers right in front of you, but sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees, you know? So essentially you've been able to. If you'll just watch your breathing, please. I can hear your breathing. Sorry, those are allergies hitting a little bit more. So.

It's November, man. Anyways, what I was I saying? So essentially you've been able to define your kind of like ideal client or ideal target market a little bit more kind of rather than being more generalist. Is that kind of one of the bigger changes you've seen and the types of projects you provide them? Yeah, I think I'm certainly a bit of a generalist. I certainly operate like a video agency in certain respects because I've just done so much and my capabilities are very strong in many different areas. But I think it's a difference between like inbound and outbound business, right?

It's like if a call comes in and say, hey, we have this problem. We need a video or campaign or like whatever. Okay. Then you work through the problem with them. Okay. And then you can kind of tee the project up. But from an outbound perspective, it's like, Who are the people, if I reach out to them, that I have a good story for?

You know, how can I reach out to the employer brand person or the product person, you know, whoever the lead is in a particular department, say, hey, I know you have this problem. I'm really good at solving it. And so I think what clarifying my skills or like competencies has help with is refining my for my target client that's allowed me to like create a better outbound strategy inbound it's like okay the phone rings what do you need cool I'll try to help but outbound it's like okay how can how can I get people's attention who don't already know that they need my product um which is the hardest thing to sell right it's trying to sell something to someone who has an already identified

a need especially video it's content is not content is often a the way they solve the problem, but they have a variety of different options available to them, photos, radio, whatever, that I'm not always the best suited for. So we've been, sorry, Carol, go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to say, yeah, and outbound is one of the more difficult things that a lot of people in our industry face in terms of figuring out,

yeah, inbound is always great. You know, whoever's coming through the front door, it's a very straightforward process and how to bring them in, but setting aside time to come up with an outbound strategy and actually doing it and being consistent with it is a challenge. And we've mentioned this on the pod from our end and also we've heard it from many of our previous guests as well. Like do you focus, how often do you focus on the outbound approach? Like do you dedicate time every month, every week, or is it kind of like you come up with like

a good idea and you start reaching out to people? Um, I don't know. It's a bit touch and go. I wish I could sit here and say, hey, yeah, here's the, here's a five hacks. You need to know about your outbound strategy. You know, like, I just think it's, it's, it's not some, you know, it's, it's, it's a sparkle of an idea. You kind of scratch around it. You validate it. And I'm, I move quickly. I'm like, I come up with the idea if I decide I'm going to do it. It's done. It's, it's, it's done in 48 hours, 72 hours. If you're not using like HubSpot or a CRM, it's actually really difficult. Like that's a full-time job. Outbound marketing. It's a full, like you can't do it as an owner-operator with full consistency. So I think like, yeah, I probably feel it.

And then if I decide it's important, I just do it right away. I'll send out 20 messages or I'll send out a few emails and I'll see what happens. but I'm not I can't necessarily look in the rear view mirror here and say hey this is what worked for me it's like no I I just take advantage of the fact that we're a small and agile shop who can move quickly who can execute on our ideas without any you know friction or pushback and then it allows us to it allows us to just experiment with with what works and so yeah I don't really have a playbook for that as much as it's like, hmm, do I feel like this is a thing? Yes, let's go. And then you can move on. But I don't, yeah, I don't have a rigid playbook, I guess, that I quote or follow religiously.

I wanted to go back to the whole strategy approach and reason is because last couple of weeks, we've actually had some clients come back to us and say, hey, we want to have a meeting to kind of go over like a long-term vision for like video and whatnot and it's something we've also been meaning to do with our other recurring clients so I'm just wondering like when you have those meetings with them like what are some of the questions that you ask or like just like some strategies that you like the information you need you try to get from them that you need yeah get from them and also like what do you really like what are you pitching in terms of like video like how far out do you go? Well, I think, like, the most important thing I would say is the first phone call,

like any good sales call is not about pitching anything. And you'd be surprised how much people open up when you just ask them a simple question. Like, so, like, what's keeping you up at night? Or, like, what's your biggest problem right now? And then just shut up. They'll talk. Everyone's got problems. you know, everyone's got business challenges. And so I think, like, the best thing you can do is just ask really human questions. They don't need to be super technical or super industry focused. And then just listen and take notes. And you'd be surprised how effective just listening to people talk and then repeating back to them what they said to you, how well that works.

because when people are kind of like dumping on you like oh this sucks or that sucks and we're having the biggest problem with this that they're like they're really emotional you know like it's rare that they're kind of like robotic they're just kind of telling you how they feel as a human the thing that keeps me up at night is we haven't figured out how to describe the features and benefits of this product nobody knows what we do and and nobody's clicking on our emails or or whatever you know they'll just they'll just they'll just share um and then from that you can extract insights where it's like okay you can take 48 hours to get back to them and be like okay the email is their number one marketing tool or marketing channel they have content on a landing page which isn't converting here's how I can help them solve the problem and maybe it's hey let's shoot a video and extract some gifts out of the video to make your email newsletter is a little bit more dynamic that invite clicks. Let's tighten up your landing page and the way it's laid out with a much more effective video. And, oh, you don't have a buy now button

or a contact now. Where's the contact us now button? It might not be what you do, but you still understand the rhythms of consumerism. And so, you know, the more you listen, the more these themes will bubble up, and then you can really pitch specific solutions to their problems. And if you can solve one of their problems incredibly well, you're like, you're a godsend. And then in terms of selling through to more of the organization, it actually might not be that person, right? Like maybe the people with the biggest budget or the biggest need for video are the product team or the brand team.

And then you've got to be like, well, hey, this has been great and I hope you're happy and I'd love to do more with you, yada, yada. This isn't the most elegant segue. But it's like, hey, is there anybody else on your team who might have needs? Or, hey, we've done so much work with product or we've done so much work with corporate culture. I would love to be able to pitch what I do to those people. And once you are trusted as a problem solver, your name can travel incredibly quickly and efficiently through an organization. And then you do the exact same thing you did with the first person, which is, so what's keeping you up at night? What are some of the biggest problems you're having? And you might not be able to solve all those problems. And sometimes being up front and honest with that also builds trust. But it's just kind of like one conversation at a time, listen,

repackage exactly what they said to you, give it back to them. hopefully there's a video opportunity there to sell and then do it again with the next person. I don't think that you're going to be able to sell through to an entire organization for someone who's only solving one specific problem. But build trust because that person's going to be your gatekeeper. That's going to be the person who facilitates introductions to others. And so, you know, care deeply about solving the problem for that individual and then ask for an introduction. and rinse and repeat. That's an important thing you mentioned as well, which is focus on solving one problem first

or their main problem first. I feel like sometimes us as production companies, we want to try to do as much as we can for our clients and promise the world, which is definitely a mistake to do early on and really listen to kind of what's the most urgent thing for them at that point, which is usually why they're reaching out to you in the first place. and just get that first project out the door and make them happy. And like once they're happy with that first one, you'd be amazed at how many doors opened up after the fact.

Like there have been a few projects that Dyer and I have done for clients where we thought it was just going to be a one-off thing that they needed. But after we saw we did that for them and they were super thrilled with it, all of a sudden they're inviting us to start doing a collective work of projects that we weren't expecting, right? And that's one of the biggest things that we can preach. I guess on the show and in our industry is that be good at solving that first problem.

Make sure you do a really good job there because that is your first foot in the door, basically. Yeah. And don't try to sell them a Big Mac if all they want is a hamburger. Yeah. You can lose it all if you try to biggie size their meal, you know, before they ask for it.

You could offer it. They don't want to supersize it, you know? That's right. That's right. Is Biggie size? What's McDonald's? McDonald's? Is it McDonald's?

It's a super size? Super size. Super size, yeah. Biggie size. All right. Biggie size. Yeah, no. I think that's a, you know, to segue now, though, maybe into like more modern

challenges. Like, I think AI is, AI is changing a lot about what organizations can do themselves and what value we add as video professionals. And so, you know, um, whereas we've had great success doing some new things, some of the old tricks just aren't working anymore because nobody, there's a lot of tightening of belts when it comes to marketing spans and just video spends in general because video is expensive. And so, you know, sometimes it's not that you can't solve their problem as much as maybe they just can't afford

it right now. And that's something that I, I see in a lot of clients, you know, know, their mindset is changing about what the bar for good enough looks like and frankly what they're able to execute in house. And sometimes it's not a video. Maybe it's static ads, you know. So, I mean, building the human relationships will always be the most important aspect of business development. But, you know, we are in very interesting times right now where it's less about the new tools. And it's more kind of like the earth is moving, the ground is moving underneath our feet here a little bit, and it's not just about who can race to test out the new 360 video product. Now it's like, oh, there's like a fundamental shift in how people are thinking about

marketing and getting attention. It's, it's, I listen to myself and I listen to you, Kirill, just kind of like speak about the things which work traditionally. But I think it's also really important to acknowledge we are not in traditional times. And there's a lot, there's a lot of change a foot. We're in a recession, so like we just got to navigate tough economic times. Everybody's tightening their belts, as you said, and almost kind of reminiscent of like how it was with COVID, right? You know, everyone basically stopped. And obviously it's not like exactly like that now. But you're seeing a lot of similar patterns where people are just kind of like taking a pause and really thinking about what they need to start focusing on,

especially if their, if marketing budgets are dwindling. And like you said, they may not be able to afford to solve all their problems right now. Like we've, we've been noticing it even like with some with some clients where we're basically at the finish line with even like producing a video. But they have gotten very slow with getting feedback to us because they're so preoccupied with the problem. in their industry because of like, you know, be it like, say the tariffs have really restricted the trade for them with a lot of their building supplies and materials for the products they produce. So they're trying to put out that fire rather than focusing on a 30 second promo video that

they were going to use, you know, like the video priority goes much further down. You know, like if basically they were starting to like look for video, like say a couple months ago, they probably would have dropped it all together at that point. But they started earlier, so we already have the video made. But feedback for them at that point has kind of gone off. So that's, that's kind of where we've seen a lot of like the shift where it's, they're, they're focusing on putting out the fires in their house before they can start worrying about who they're attracting to come visit their house, you know? Just before we, before we dive in further on that, what would, what is the insight that you guys

learning coming out of COVID were different times. You're at a different place in your business, obviously. But now that you can look in the rearview mirror, kind of like four years later, four and a half years later, what's like one insight that you both took away in terms of navigating challenging times and difficult times? And I would consider the times we're in to be difficult, different, challenging. What's something that you're you learned that you could share with your listeners. I mean, we've always been really good at adapting to different situations. So like at the start of the year, I kind of saw the writing on the wall.

So I told Kirol, like, hey, we've got to adapt to whatever's going to be coming this year. And that meant internally just cutting down on a lot of our costs. and when it comes to productions it's doing a lot more stuff in-house and outside of our productions on the sales side I would say I just thought like we had to like I thought okay listen let's if the budgets are going to be smaller because the economy is not going to be doing too well then let's try to adjust our our quotes based on that right I don't mean like cutting our costs, like our prices by a lot, but at least like cutting down the size of the

productions, you know? And that, I think that move really saved us because we had a lot less cost this year. And the profits were a lot higher too. And we kept getting consistent work because of it. And like we're at an okay point here. But I also don't know what the future holds. right like we're in an industry where you can't really predict three more than like two or three months out sometimes even even a month next week out it's not like with you there yeah it's not like in the weddings for example where it's like you can predict next year maybe even the year after right um i don't know corporate is is very difficult to uh to survive in you know because there's just too much uncertainty and a lot of projects are like one-offs that my next

never come back or might never even refer you to someone else. So I don't know. But we've been able to, like our main thing was adapting to like a changing environment. And that's something, again, we've always been good at that down to even like when we shoot. All of our shoots are running gun types of productions. And I think that translated to everything else that we do as well. Just quickly thinking on our feet and being able to get the job done and survive, I guess. yeah trying to keep it where it's like if if something was to pop up in the next couple days are we able to jump on it and make it happen essentially right because that's what a lot of projects are nowadays and dario said it said it perfectly there like being adaptable is so key and like we've been so used to doing that for a long time but the key to being adaptable is being willing to willing to change on things that you probably weren't going to budge on before. Like maybe you had a rule where it's like, I'm not going to take, like, I've heard this

from many companies before where it's like, I'm not going to take any project that's under this budget, right? That was like their hard rule because they wouldn't be making any money on it, right? But, you know, when times are tough, what can you do to make that budget work for you, right? That doesn't necessarily mean doing the exact same service that you were doing before. for that lower budget. It's more so, you know, is there something you can kind of skimp out on? Maybe you don't need to get a red camera for that project. Maybe you can work with a Canon C70. Maybe you don't need an audio op for that project. Maybe you don't need a PA or you don't need

make up. You don't need three PAs. You don't need four grips. You know, maybe you can half that, you know, based on. Maybe you don't need to make 40% profit margins, which I know goes counter to Chris's episode from a couple months back, or a couple episodes back where he's like, you need to make at least 40%. Sometimes, like, even if you make 5% profits, that's pretty good. That's better than zero. That's better than staying at home that week, you know? Well, the main thing is also thinking about, like, for some people, that's their rule.

You know, like, this goes back to what I was saying, like, what works for one company doesn't necessarily work for you? Like, what are your, how do you say, stressing points, right? If you feel that you can take on a project and make 10% profit on it, as I said, It's still better than not working as well, because at the very least, that's also still work that keeps you relevant. It's still work that you could use to promote yourself and your business. You're building relationships.

Like people are thinking about the profits, but they're not thinking about also the potential long-term relationships that can also potentially come from a new lead, especially in a difficult time, right? So these are just some of the- There's also a psychological factor on yourself too, Kiro. Like, the fact that you know, the fact that you're on yourself too, Carol. The fact that you have work coming in, mentally you're like, okay, I'm doing something. Like, at least- You're in the zone.

I'm in the zone. Like, you know, like, I might not be making a ton of money on it, but I'm making some money, and at least you're keeping busy. Like, that also, people don't think about that part of it because to get a project once every couple of weeks, it's, you know, even though it'll help you survive for another couple of weeks, that versus, like, having one every week is, that that makes a big difference. Yeah. And these are just some of the strategies that we've kind of adopted where it's like there's flexibility in certain areas, you know, where we're not, we're not essentially sacrificing on the work. You know, that's kind of also what we're trying to make sure.

It's like, it's not, we're trying to do everything we can to make sure also the work doesn't suffer in that sense, but also trying to work with clients. Because like you said, John, for some clients, they have different definitions of what is good enough, right? They don't need a studio budgeted project maybe for a promo that we can shoot in their offices, you know, like that, that's like one thing that could be like a big cost saving for them, right? And just working with, with the clients, understanding their challenges, helps you be adaptable as well. Like you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think one thing, Dario, that you said there that I just want to touch on, which I think matters a lot, is you kind of,

you said it in different words, but it's just kind of like mental health and emotional well-being in the sense that like, yeah, I think being useful is the best feeling in the world, you know, being motivated and useful know that you're adding value to someone. We don't, we usually talk about it in the context of creativity and problem-solving a new project, but at a human level, being useful is incredibly valuable. And I think one of the hardest parts about not being busy is the idea that nobody needs you. You are not being useful. And I think that can weigh really heavily on people, especially in this economy where there's a lot of incredibly talented people who are just getting pushed out, some out of their jobs, out of the industry. You know, you don't need to spend too much

time on LinkedIn to see how many talented people are out there that are just in a tough spot. And so, you know, one thing that I want to say that I think is of incredible value is showing up for people when it's shitty, when life is shitty. I have had, I try to do it for them and they've done it for me where it's like, hey, you haven't a tough time. Let me introduce you to someone. Let's go for a coffee and let's talk. For a long time, these were just networking buzzwords, right? Like, oh, yeah, let's go for coffee. Come on my podcast. Or, you know, I can introduce you to someone. Like, I saw that exclusively through the lens of networking. Now I see it different. Not entirely differently. Everything is networking. But when you

can be there for someone, and even if it's just to listen to them talk, give them advice, advice that you might need to take yourself as well, but just to show up when it counts, I think that is something that is so incredibly valuable now. I have been able, and this is with complete altruism, you know, like I think I've enjoyed lately more showing up for people who are going through difficult times, and I value people so much who have shown up for me in a really difficult year in a difficult economy to just talk through it. I'm like, wow, like this is this is what it's about, you know, like when you don't have clients validating your life's work, your creative ambitions, your big new idea,

your, you know, double tapping your post or whatever, you can kind of lose sight of maybe what's a little bit more important underneath, which is helping build. each other up, you know, and just the human experience. And I think that's, that is something that I've grown to really value this year. And I can't say enough about the people who have been there for me. And I hope I have been that person for for other people as well. And that doesn't quite sound like business advice. And it's not even meant to be business advice, but it's, it's that relationship building element when the other person has nothing to offer. It's like, I'll just be here for you to be a good person.

And I think that to me is kind of one of the themes of this year that I'm really taking seriously. And I think one thing that I guess Darry and I might forget every now and then is that, you know, a lot of people are in this on their own. Like this is a pretty isolating industry where a lot of people, you know, their own bosses, right? You know, like yourself, you're running Corbyn visual on your own. Like, yeah, you have a team of people. it's still you who's basically like you're the only one that has your problems right or people who are freelancing they're they're they're running their own mini production company of just themselves trying to build relationships you know and they have their own challenges like the one fortunate thing

that darry and i have had is that we basically any time we have challenges we discuss it we've we we brainstorm ideas we figure out challenges on that and and that's why like you said it is important for people to just be able to talk. And that's also kind of what we're trying to normalize in this industry is that, you know, like you don't have to do everything. You don't have to do everything on your own. Like I've met up with a few creatives who run their own production companies and I've talked out some things with them, kind of like you mentioned, John. And I was asking them, like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to be like a freelancer? Are you trying to run your own production company? And like, I was just asking them questions, you know, they got them thinking

things that they never thought before because again they're by themselves they kind of have it in their head but they're not talking to anyone about it right and that there's a caveat to that though like i find that like-minded individuals are rare though like for you to find someone else that like okay yeah he is looking or she is looking to improve themselves and like actually become like you know go to the next step where they really need that extra boost or whatever but and that they'll actually listen to the advice you provide. Yeah. I feel like those people are actually extremely rare.

And like I've seen it too because I used to like be like I, I'd love giving advice or like saying, hey man, like you should maybe think about this or that. And then, you know, you go through that quite a few times and you don't see them doing anything. And then months later they come back asking for work and everything because times are bad. And it's like, buddy, like I told you like a year ago you should have been networking. with more companies to expand, like, your list of producers that, you know, or whatnot. So, I don't know.

Like, I feel like a lot of the times, like, yeah, it's good to do that. But I think it's only good to do it if that person is actively seeking you out and asking for your knowledge. And you can kind of see that or they will actually. But, you know, like, that's important to point out because those types of people are few and far in between. Yeah. Like, a lot of people, like, they're not looking for the, like, they're looking for the

handout. They're not looking for the advice. and that's one thing that really irritates the hell out of me because like this industry all industries they're hard to really be successful in and for you to just think like someone's going to hand it to you or you just got lucky with your career so far like I think that's just you know

I want to build on that with something that literally I was thinking about as I was walking in from getting a coffee not that it matters when I had this thought but the point is it's something that just came to me today and you're bubbling up something, which I think is an interesting segue, which is like, with chat GPT now and like large language models, etc., strategy is at our fingertips.

Action gets even harder. Because now when we can get advice on demand and really good advice, okay, maybe it's not right 100% of the time, but it's like, hey, I'm having this problem. What should I do about it? And then chat GPT is like, br-br. You know? And would you like me to draft next steps? Oh, yeah, you're so valid. You know, I totally see why you think that. And here's what you should do about it. And I actually think on one hand, tools, AI tools like this are super helpful to talk to if you don't necessarily have another human readily available for advice. And in some cases, maybe their wealth of database of knowledge is even more robust than another human. But the speed at which. you can get advice and strategy recommendations is created an even larger gap between the people who can't connect strategy and execution, strategy and action. Now it feels like you're being

productive, asking chat, GPT, all these questions and getting all these answers, but like, what does it take to implement that? How much consistency do you need to record 100 podcast episodes and feature 90 different entrepreneurs. What's the difference between, hey, I need a podcast idea to stay busy during COVID, and we're publishing our 105th episode. That's a really big gap. And I think the more readily advice is available, I actually think the harder it becomes to execute because of how much.

advice there is. And Dario, I agree with you, it's annoying to spend time on people who don't take your advice to heart and put it into action. But I'd also say that those are, it's sometimes it's not effort as much as it is just like critical thinking. You know, it's like some people just, they're not capable. And we perceive that as lack of motivation or lack of action. And it's like they actually don't know how to execute that advice. And so it doesn't solve their problem. It doesn't solve the problem of how you're feeling about feeling like you're wasting time on people who didn't take your advice and are even a deeper hole than you originally found them. But at the same time, it's like, well, I think maybe that person's not cut out to be a business owner.

Maybe that person's not cut out to be a freelancer. And maybe that's the realization they need to be making is they're better suited to work inside a large organization. when they get Monday morning a list of tasks that they can execute. And that's what productivity and progress will look like to them. And they're just kind of like they're not in the right employment scenario right now. And listen, can anybody be an entrepreneur? Like, of course, yes. But you guys know, it's not fucking easy.

And it only gets harder. More money, more problems, more staff, more problems, more clients, more problems. And, you know, I think I've taken this answer at a bit of a different direction, Dario, but I think the nugget that I'm trying to extract here is that, like, yeah, some people are not meant to run a business. Some people are not meant to strategize and execute. Some people are just execution only, but they really want to be something that they're not. And it's their own personal journey and their own personal development, which is required to, uncover that insight where it's like, hey, you know what? Maybe it's time to get a job. Maybe it's

time to leave the industry. And it's not a knock. It's not a diss. It's just like, I actually think that's how you help them become their best selves is by helping them uncover what makes them tick so that and how they work best and then get them in a scenario in which they'll shine because this video production freelancer, creative industry, I mean, it's not for everybody. right and so um i think you guys are you guys are very generous with the knowledge that you share and giving people a platform to to vent to collaborate to to share wisdom um but everyone's on their own path right and you can only help them so much yeah i think if you're an entrepreneur like you you wouldn't be asking someone like i don't know what to do you would just be asking them like

a specific question like how do i do this yeah you know i think that's the big difference difference. If you're, if you're telling someone, I don't know what to do, it's like, you're probably not cut out for whatever it is you're doing. Yeah. It's kind of like, I'm just, that's just the truth. Like, I'm sorry. It's like, you shouldn't be asking, like the, like the existential question to other people. It's like, it's like, how, how do I fix this, how do I fix this, how do I fix this one editing issue? Specific problem. Like, it's, like, entrepreneurship is solving one problem after the other. And there's no shortage of problems. And, and just, just being able to keep moving forward.

It's like, yeah, sometimes, you know, it is nice to complain once in a while, you know, but at the same time, you still got to do it. You got to take action, yeah. If you're like, oh, woe is me type of person. Some people just want to complain. Some people just want to complain. It's, I don't know. Like, I find it so hard to sympathize of that kind of mindset, too, because it's like,

we've been in tough situations. We've pulled ourselves out from, like, basically closing down the company because there was nothing. Like we were able to do it. So if we were able to do it, and I don't think I'm the smartest person either. If I was able to do it, you should be able to do it too. If you can't figure it out, I don't know what to tell you. Like we figured it out on their own. Like we went, we asked people for advice, took it, used it, you know, made mistakes, wasted money. But we were able to pull ourselves through. It's funny because you mentioned John that like we have like a wealth of knowledge. It's like, we feel even nowadays, it's like I sometimes I feel like I still don't

know what I'm doing. No, but I think that's life. I think that's, that's, that's, that's one of life's biggest secrets is that no one knows what they're doing. You know, even the people sitting in the boardroom who sounds smart, they're still figuring it out. Because if they had it figured out, they wouldn't have the problem. You know, um, um, I, that's a, that's a bit of a loaded statement. So you can unpack that as you, as you, as you will. But, but, but yeah, I think, having the problem being okay with it, like being okay with that there's going to be challenges. exactly what they're doing. Because the truth is what helped you solve your problem yesterday is not going to help solve your problem today. Like, it's a new problem with different context,

different nuance. And it's like, how can you adapt to more modern challenges? Like, I'll use this as an opportunity just to segue into these. I told you we talked about it on the pod, Dario, so I just want to make sure that we squeeze in some time. But to talk about these vertical dramas, which have just been exploding, which I've done a couple of, this year. And I had never directed narrative. So just for context, I think you have to be living under a rock. If you haven't heard of these vertical dramas, they're basically these TikTok style feature films where it's like a 90-minute movie, one to two minutes at a time that are designed for the vertical scroll. The apps are quite literally a vertical scroll.

And it's heightened drama. It's a werewolf pregnancy stories. It's mafia boss stories. it's, dude, those things get a ton of views like my girlfriend loves to watch these like Facebook short films that are like 30 minutes long and like if you look at the view count you're like wow, like people

love watching this stuff. Yes. And when the client came to me in the first place to say can you do this I had to be like I don't want to say yes I've done this a million times I'd never even directed narrative but there was something about what this was, which was very appealing to me, which was, hey, do you know how to

storytell for a social first audience and a vertical scroll? And I was like, 100%, I have done that before. I've been doing that for years. And it encouraged me to go solve this problem, which was new client, weird, exciting new opportunity, which like might be softcore porn, but I can't quite tell yet. There's good money in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. But it's like, hey, how can I repackage the things that I'm uniquely good at for this thing I've never done before, let alone direct actors, let alone direct 30 actors, right? And 20 extras on sets and on really ambitious shoots. And I, the reason I wanted to segue, beyond you all wanted to talk about it is like, to me, that was, I've done two now this

year, like back to back. And it's something I'm incredibly proud of because here's a format which I was not only unfamiliar with, but I'd never even, I'd never done before. I'd never directed anything outside of some branded content dialogue, which is like a couple lines at a time, as opposed to full scenes. Yet, there was this excitement and energy to solve a new problem, to adapt to a new way of thinking and, and tell new stories in formats that were somewhat familiar to me, but also completely foreign. And so, I love them now. Like I think it's, the scripts aren't necessarily a subject matter that excites me.

But I've become like super pumped up about like directing talent and telling 90 minute stories. That's something that I never thought I would enjoy before. And in fact, it's it's a little bit of a flame underneath me from like a, you know, from a narrative standpoint in terms of like scripts I have in my back pocket like we all do. And it's like, well, I can do this. Like, it's, it's not easy. It's not hard. But once you just do it, you're doing it. And so, like, well, anyways.

What were some of the, because like, again, like, we're all, a lot of our listeners, too, they focus a lot on corporate. This is more narrative, but also corporate in a way because it's like, yeah, it's adaptable. What were some of like the challenges you faced and like, how do you overcome them? like what are some pieces of advice you would give like your past self yeah um i think the advice is going to sound very similar to normal business challenges but it's like hire better people around you like i knew i wasn't going to be able to go into this with my corporate dps with my commercial dps i needed someone who had directed narrative um i needed help breaking down a scene i never shot coverage before you know i didn't understand how to get all the pieces to the puzzle

So I hired a really good buddy of mine who's a super solid AD who's like a really old friend of mine So we could have fun on set and chirp each other. So that kind of took out the tension a little bit. And then just hired talent, just hired talented department leads and many who had done narrative before so that I could truly focus on the script or just elements of the production that were really familiar to me. And so, yeah, listen, I think directing narrative is just, It's just an entirely new and different storytelling style, but to not try to do too much and leave room for mistakes. Yeah, that's kind of like my rush advice is hire the right people around you, which sounds so traditional.

But it was that different to shoot like compared to like corporate stuff? Sure, sure. We're shooting three cameras, multiple takes. we're shooting 10 pages a day, which by comparison to, let's say, regular movies or shows, sometimes are shooting two to three. We have to move really quickly, really big emotions, really big drama, stuff that like, if you and I were watching, we'd be like, what the fuck is this? Nobody's going to watch.

Nobody's going to, this is so cheesy and this is overdramatic, but you see it in the edit and you're like, oh, I get it. I get why people like this. It's an escape, you know? It's a wild escape. So, yeah, I think getting used to kind of what works in the format was a bit of a departure from what I understood work, which was subtlety and what's cool. And, you know, being able to solve the problem with production value has been a longstanding

strategy as opposed to like, no, I need the performances to be there. I need to make sure I have the right inserts so that this puzzle fits together. that was something really tough. And hiring a great AD and hiring a great DP, really, that was the only way this, that was the only way I would have got the second one, you know? So really thankful for the guys who helped me out on that. Yeah. And you really have to, especially when you're diving into formats or mediums that you're not super familiar with, you know, like there's that classic saying of like, yeah, you hire people that are better around you to really help execute the project.

But not only were you able to focus on the stuff you did know, you were able to be exposed in a safe way to elements of this type of format or production that you've never done before and learn from it, right? And funny enough, this goes back to the saying of the classic word, the advice, like hire people that are better than you around you or learn to adapt. You know, these are very general pieces of advice.

And this also goes back to kind of like the classic self-help style advice that people do. But, you know, it's general in a sense because that is, it applies to a lot of different scenarios. But in your scenario right there, you were able to figure out exactly what you needed to do and apply it. So that's, that's kind of like one thing to mention for a lot of people. It's like when you're, when people are hearing all that advice, you know, how does that relate specifically to your scenario that works? And that's what people, I guess, as we were talking about before, struggle with kind of like correlating, you know, it's like being adaptable. great I got to be adaptable but what does that mean for me and then you have to go out and figure it out and that's what you did you said that you'd never done narrative formats before you've done vertical storytelling before for a lot of your past projects so you had a familiarity with it but you were able to figure out how to adapt it to this new type of medium so this this just kind of goes to show like how you can correlate the good advice with your own specific scenarios yeah into action and it's action

And another, the other bit that was super helpful in that scenario is like Megan, my producer I've been now working with for almost three years, she stepped into the producer role. And so all of a sudden, we were so familiar with each other's style that, sure, forget what's going on in front of the camera with the AD and the DP, but that I could turn around and know that someone who are just, we work so well together. and she knows what I need. And so to see someone thriving and stepping into my job or my traditional role as a producer also kind of like unlocked this level of comfort because at a certain point,

if you're trying to do too much, if you're wearing too many hats, something's going to break. Like, you know how it is. If you're the DP and the sound guy and the grip and the director, okay, like is a video going to get made? Yeah. Is it going to be the best that could be? Probably not. And so just, again, filling in my own blind.

spots with people who I trust who understand my work style and understand how I communicate, not just being good at their job, but as the leader of the set, being able to communicate with me and not in a subservient type of way, in a collaborative type of way where it's like, hey, John, here's what you need to be thinking about. So what do you want to do? Okay, chat, let's do this. And so there was this kind of like mutual respect for my inexperience on a set like that, that turned into like a huge learning experience and teachable moments at every turn. And I was not, I'm not shy about not having the experience. You know, I'm not shy about not knowing what I'm doing.

I, if anything, I was just so thankful that these people around me shared their expertise in a way that could allow us to make quick decisions that reflected my leadership style. And that was just so cool. Like I can't tell you how rewarding it was to come off a 10-day shoot with people you really enjoyed working with and had a great time with like. That was the best. And that's what I'm, that's what feels so magnetic about this narrative stuff is just getting to spend longer periods of time with people you like. Then, I don't know, it just, it was just fun. It was challenging as hell, but it was fun. And like, we love to showing up for one another. That was one of the best parts about about doing something like this. 10-day shoot. I thought it was going to be a longer shoot. I was actually going to ask, like, oh, if it went, because I thought it must have taken you like a month to film. So I was going to ask, hey, if you were doing like a month, like, how were you handling other aspects of your business? But damn, 10 days is kind of nuts. 14-hour days, you know. Yeah, it was a sprint, man. It was a sprint. But there was something about, I don't know, everyone just kind of leaned in. I don't know, maybe they're holding some stuff back that it didn't tell me, you know. But, you know, you make sure that you respect their time.

You make sure there's good food on set. You make sure that you're being professional. Like, I don't know, the time goes. The time goes. And then by the end of the day, you're definitely ready for sleep. But I think with really aggressive filming schedules, you really need to want to show up for the people that you're working with or else it'll feel it'll become really draining, you know,

and there'll be drama on set, not the good type of drama. Was there drama on your set? Well, the script was drama, you know? The script was all drama. Good answer. But no. No, we all, that was one of the better parts. Like with a bigger crew, I get to hire everybody I like working with.

Like, that's cool too, you know? Like people who I was doing, like, V, my makeup, who did hair makeup for me, we have been working together for 10 years. maybe not 10 years, maybe 8 years on single talking head, corporate video, whatever. And she'd never done this either. And I'm like, there was no one else I'd rather do this with her from a hair and makeup standpoint than V.

You know, and that was another cool part is to just kind of like hit these milestones together. Obviously, producing and hair and makeup are different disciplines. but, you know, the production needed so badly what she was amazing at and to be able to go from single talking heads to making a movie together and be able to look across the room and see each other. I can't speak for her, but, you know, I liked seeing her. That felt like a really cool accomplishment for us to do together.

That felt like a real kind of take a step back and kind of like, oh, this is cool. Like, look how far we've come. that was another kind of cool moment of of of working with with familiar people yeah just realize this whole 90 minute thing is kind of goes back to like what you like to do which is like being ahead of the trends yeah yeah because I know those I know those types of video video like long form videos are really popular and like Asia so it's only a matter of time so maybe they make their way over here well they're here here, dude. I did my first one in November, less than a year ago. Since then, I've seen

15 companies pop up. Whether it's just going to be dramas right now, which is where they're all starting or whether they evolve to different formats. I mean, I'm now immersed in the world, so I see the news. I see who's sharing what. And so I'm, it's much more front and center for me, but is this something that is here. And we have to decide as entrepreneurs and as creative people, what are we going to do about it? It's not for everyone. That's cool. But what are we going to go chase these opportunities? Seek them out? Are we going to stay away because it's not our bag? That's another decision in front of all of us in this industry. Like, do you see other corporate video companies like starting to tackle these on or is it like just some UB company that

just pops up and is doing it? Honestly, I am the only like, maybe with the exception of one other. I'm the only company proper that has been doing these and who's been evangelizing for them. I see what a lot of companies do is they're crewing up with like an EP or a line producer

and then just crewing up. But it's not like a centralized company who's responsible for delivering an entire workflow. It's like it's entirely freelance. Kind of like an insourcing type of model. And so it doesn't mean

that there isn't opportunity, but I think that the budgets are just, they're not super aggressive, like they're not super big. Like I'd say they're 150 to 180 USD, which is not nothing, but once you break up a 10-day shoot and you, yeah, the money goes. And as a producer, you need to know where to invest the money. And that's everything. That's pre-pro, 10-day shoot, post. finishing the editing is a fucking nightmare in a good way but like in just a challenging way

and so you just yeah it's part of me kind of would just rather direct them and then walk away because you know there are challenges that when you're shooting really quickly a lot of these companies especially the ones who have had success in Asia they don't understand nuance right They don't understand why something happened on set or, hey, this is impossible because of this or that. They understand, is it done or not, you know, and to adapt yourself to a really binary way of problem solving that doesn't lean into how we speak here in the West, which was, well, we did our best and here are the challenges and here's what the outcome is. It's, why isn't it done? Okay, get it done. and then you have to decide as the producer, am I going to throw money at this problem,

take money out of my own pocket to solve this problem, or am I going to tell them to F off, you know, respectfully. And those are the types of things that I found to be the most difficult operating at such a high clip, high pace, having to make concessions on the day, to get the shot, to make our day, to get the footage that works out, all right, let's figure this out in post, you know, and then have to figure it out it's you don't have the luxury of measuring twice and cutting once

you get to measure half and cut seven times cut as you measure yeah as you measure yeah and you just kind of it's just it's a different style and so that's I found that to be really difficult

is meeting their expectations from a production value in a storytelling standpoint with 10 times the challenges on set. You know, that was something that was kind of wild. And I, everyone who works in this field, I hear them say the same things. It's just the speed is insane. You said you've done two now.

You've done two. So the third is going to be a lot easier, you know? And the one thing that we know for sure is that these soap opera drama type stories and shows and movies, they're here to stay. The reason I know this is because my grandmother has been watching the same soap opera from like as far back as I can remember. And this is just the new medium. So, you know, it's, it's going to keep changing. Like you said, it's already here. More people are going to potentially adopt it. You know, I mean, people are on their phones constantly. So why wouldn't there be a 90 minute feature in that format at some point, right? So this just goes back to being able to

adapt, adapting with new types of clients, new types of people, new types of mediums, and then pushing on, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think it's, these new formats are also a great way to stay motivated because I love, you know, as entrepreneurs, we just love challenges. You know, we love consistency and we love systems and we love all that. But I think as creative people, creative entrepreneurs, we love new challenges. And that's something. this year that has kept me sane or motivated. I don't know what the adjective is. Kept you busy for 10 days.

Yeah. Yeah, they're like 90 day prod. Like pre and post, are you? 60 to 70, 60 to 75 days. Yeah. Dup to nuts. Yeah, I don't know. It's been, it's been cool.

So 60s, so two months, like from when you get the, like, when they tell you to go, it's only 6-8 to 75 days. Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's very short. Yeah, you should see the post. It's, yeah, it's aggressive.

It's like 72-minute episodes with 20 to 30 comments on each episode's rough cut. You have two weeks to turn it. Yeah, I was going to ask you about like the feedback. The revision process. Because even for like a two-minute promotional video, sometimes you're like, Jesus Christ, how many more edits you want to do it? this thing. They work in frame, so they are organized. There are sometimes I've found, I've had two different project managers. Their English has varied. Also, their style has varied.

So, you know, sometimes, you know, we just want clarity on frame in our notes. But sometimes, like, some of the language barriers are like, causing like, all right, we need to reach out to this person. What do they mean? They're in different time zones. When are we going to hear back? So there's been some both cultural and geographic issues with meeting deadlines. But on our second one, there was a fraction of the edits that there were on the first one. So part of it is just our own understanding and adoption of the format so that our rough cuts are kind of almost there. But there's still tons of freaking tons of notes and tons of notes that, hey, go back, find a different reaction, find a different angle, you know, then you're sifting through 10 hours of footage. I mean, obviously not if it's

logged properly, but, you know, the sequences are bulky, very bulky. And we're like editing off like SSDs, you know, because we need, we need to move so darn quickly that we literally don't have time for the hard drives to spin. You know, it's like we need, we need to be moving in order to make our deadline. Wow. Well, that opens up a whole whole new whole new world for a lot of people who are not familiar for it so thank you for sharing that um i guess the next thing i would say is like so with all this new stuff you've done this year what do you what are you looking forward to i guess say i mean right now it's someone's phone vibrating oh sorry that's that's me um concierge is buzzing um the right now it's at the end of

October. What are you looking forward to, I guess, maybe for the closing of the year and maybe for the start of 2026? Looking forward is a really loaded question. I just, I'd like some good old fashion interview and B-roll shoots. I'll tell you. That's what I could go for is just as much as I loved all this innovative stuff, there's something about clients asking for something you can fucking deliver in your sleep really well. I'd like to be able to just flex those muscles a little bit again because when you're when you're innovating and focusing on new and different formats, it's mental, it's exhausting. It can be draining, you know. And I'd like to, I'd like to get a little bit of a counterbalance to end the year. It's just some, doesn't mean they won't be great. Doesn't

I mean, it won't be creative, but I'd like to work in some formats that are a little bit more practical. Old reliable. Well, yeah, I'll rely. I'd love to talk to a CEO about what he wants to see, where he wants to see his company go in 2026, you know, ask what you're doing to me. I'd love to ask people these questions on camera. These feel like stuff that I could do in my sleep. So I'd like a little bit more, some simplicity to end. year. That's that's kind of what I'm hoping for. Nothing, nothing big. Simplicity is usually the

nice thing for the end of the year. You know, you don't want to go too crazy, but, you know, that big project does come through, you know. Might have to figure out how to make it work, right? Yeah, it's all good. It's all good. Like you say, I'm like you guys. Like, I'm super adaptable. I can move quickly, very agile. And, you know, if you have the band, but especially these days, and we're going to take it and we're going to figure out how to get it done. You know, now is not the time to be passing on projects. Now is the time to be executing, you know, keeping relationships strong. Because I think as the technology becomes more accessible and AI really is going to,

I think we're only in the baby stages next year is going to be a crazy year for that is, you know, I think we all need to figure out how to integrate AI into our workflows. Sometimes it's efficiencies, sometimes it's innovation. but you're going to be dead in the water if you don't. And so to go back to your question, I think part of this kind of Q4 for me is also going to be about like reflection and education because I need to come back to market, start the next year with innovative solutions to problems because that is the client speak and that's client language these days.

How can you use AI to save me time and money? And that's a problem that I'm like keenly focused. on. Yeah. No, well said. And the funny thing is it's not so much that it needs to be done with AI clients just need their problems solve quicker and more efficiently. And AI is definitely going to be one of the tools to do that. Yeah. And that's what people need to remember is that at this stage, AI in our industry is how it needs to be looked at as a tool, not as a threat necessarily yet. But obviously like it is it is changing and evolving over time. Like, I've seen some crazy tools just improve over the last, like, couple years with the way

AI has been going. And it's helped speed up a lot of parts of our process over, over time. And, you know, kudos. If we can keep doing that great. But, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll see what happens in, in the new year for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, hopefully we can, we'll talk again on episode 200 about, uh, about, about, about, about,

Are you guys going to keep the show going? What's your, what's your energy and appetite? Yeah, I think so. There's a lot, I want to do more international guests, which by the time your episode comes out, people have caught a, we'll have caught a slight glimpse of that, but yeah, I have a lot more international guests planned. So I've got to do some of the more major U.S. cities because I have not hit up New York. Yeah, we realized we didn't have New York yet.

Of all the cities. We definitely need to get New York on our belt. because I'm not going to fly over for work, so got to find people there. Right. Yeah, yeah. Good point. Good point. Cool.

Well, yeah, this is, as always, I think what you guys are doing is great. I appreciate you having me on the show here again. Hopefully, hopefully there's some nuggets here for people to take away. But, you know, every once in a while, this is really nice to sit down and have a conversation like this to just, you know, reflect, just shoot the shit. talk shop i think um i've i've really enjoyed um our relationship over the years and and just even listening to your latest episodes i've just really enjoyed hearing how much you guys have grown how much knowledge you have to drop on others now it just feels like you know well i think

we we i may have started a little bit before you guys um from a timeline perspective i i feel like Dario particularly, but I feel like, you know, we've been part of each other's kind of worlds for at least the better part of a decade. And that's super cool. So getting to do this is, you know, a fun check-in, you know, like just a fun check-in to make sure that we're keeping up with one another, like personally, you know. Is that the outro music over there? I thought it was some music. That sounded like music at first. Yeah, yeah, I thought that was like an electric guitar riff or something. Yeah, right?

I wasn't sure how loud that was going to be, but yeah, like I have someone here fixing the sink in the condo because the other day it just like sunk randomly. So we're like, oh, shit, we got to get that fixed before the move. But what was I saying? Welcome to the whole ownership, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And anyways, like, yeah, John, honestly, it's always like a pleasure of chatting. and like, you know, I'm almost like curious now what to listen back at like some of the older episodes. It's like, what was it like back then at this point?

You know, it feels like it wasn't that long ago, but, you know, 105 episodes later. How do you get clients? Yeah. Now I want to hear it. Now I want to listen. It's like, so how do you run a video company? We were those annoying people asking for advice back then, right? No, it's all good.

It's all good. I think, you know, if anything, I remember when we were working with Dario, like, on a lot of the BuzzFeed stuff I was doing, like, Dario was just always so reliable, you know, like his technical skills were always super strong. He was a pleasure on set, you know, understood his blushing. No. Well, but I think that's, you know, like, I think that's just how a lot of, especially professional relationships have developed. It's like a mutual respect for what one another bring to the table and then it kind of blossoms from there. And so, you know, whatever those early conversations

sounded like, they were fun to me. Like they were, it's always good to be able to chop it up with people who, who come through for you. And, and I think that's, that's, like I said, it's not, it's not competition, it's community. And I think that's something that you guys have really been able to to foster. And, and something that I'm grateful to be a part of as well. As the reigning champ, Reigning champ We got to get him a hat with like three stars on it or something Yes No not no

With a three stars Like a bad Yeah yeah yeah with the logo And three stars on the top right Yes And then room for more Hopefully room for more Yeah yeah we mail them new stars every year

All right well I think that's that's good We went over the one hour mark Yeah no we appreciate you joining us John And you know Sharing your most recent knowledge as well and I like what we kind of covered here today, you know, and the more... I'm curious what he's going to talk about next time he comes on, because the two years before was about that influencer marketing stuff.

This year, it's a long-form TikTok like movies. He's a trend getter, trend-setter. No, the trend-setting go-getter. I don't know. Some. I'm some. I'm some. So I like keeping an eye on what you do.

It's my wife. I'm lazy, you know, but I'll take, I'll take trendsetter. That's pretty standard if you're a hubby. No, no, it's good to keep an eye on what you do, John, because it's always like, oh, okay, that's probably going to be the next big thing in a little bit. And he's learning things from that. And it's interesting to see, like, you're shifting mindset over time as well, because it's like, you know, you're very into one thing at this point. And then who knows, in two years, what? your next mindset's going to be too, right? I think based on that, though, you just got to stick with it because even like the influencer stuff, you could have maybe like started, I don't know, like maybe, I remember talking about this, like, yeah, you could have been like the guy for like the influence influencers in Toronto because you had like all the major ones under your belt.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, I think that's been my Achilles heel this whole time is just kind of like getting bored or being the content guy and not the business builder. not the strategist, you know, like I was working with influencers before a lot of these big influencer agencies even popped up. But then I have to ask myself the question, is that what I'm trying to do, build an influencer agency?

I could have done that. Or am I a storyteller? And I think a lot of really great business opportunities have probably passed me by because of my storytelling instincts. I would have probably been like, I probably still am a great co-founder, you know, for a new idea or a new product. not that I don't have solid business instincts or or you know potential to build something big but I I think I thrive in them in a storytelling and marketing role and that doesn't make

for a company outside of the storytelling industry so you know you want you you know what you want to do well you I think the problem is you were trying to fit it under Corbyn visual like if you started it as like another company then it could have been you could have maybe that would have been a good way for you to justify it to yourself that it's like a separate entity right because i i didn't realize until we started like the wedding company this year that like it's really easier to start another business and like get it up and like whatever like it does take time obviously like that's the main sacrifice but i was surprised how easy it was to get it up and get it started and get it going so but it's its own separate thing i don't put it

that's why because it's a separate entity right same with a potty podcast. It's its own thing. It's not under the lapse umbrella. It's like a separate thing. Yeah. Do you do you just call party planners or do you buy Google ads or what was just the first? No. So I, well, I did what I always do, which is network. So you got to network with a lot of planners like our photo partner was also very helpful in sending us clients. And then I just went through. I actually did try Google ads, but I stopped it because number one, we don't have the content. We were spending a lot on the lapse ones and I was like, I can't justify all this money going out. But then I was like also like, we don't have enough content at the moment. So it didn't make a lot of

sense. I was like, once we have enough content, which we will by the end of November, that'll be out there, then we're going to start video ads and everything. Well, we already have, we're already on our track to hit next year's like goal. So like it, I like again, once you start a business and you have it running and you're successful in it, like you are with like CV, then. I think starting another one is actually fairly easy. Well, it's easier because you know what you're not true. You already know what to do. And it's like the same formula that you apply for one, that you apply for the other one.

Yeah. I actually have one that I've been, I'll talk about it next time once I make it a thing. I'm not ready to say it out loud yet, but I've been strategizing. Yeah, yeah, just the next thing I start, especially from a storytelling standpoint, I want to make sure it's like really fulfilling, makes me happy. And so I've been exploring what that looks like and what that means. And I've landed on it. It's just a question of whether I have the patience and wherewithal to like see it all the way through from marketing to execution to networking.

It's just it's a new beast in a parallel space that I'm that I'm excited about. But you know, like anything, it's just like for entrepreneurs, there's this line in the sand. It's like on one side is this thing is happening. on the other side is I'm thinking about it. And once we cross over that line, you have no choice but to see it all the way through. So I'm I'm kind of dragging my feet at the start line trying to decide whether I'm crossing that line. Because when I do, it's all systems go, you know? Yeah.

No, we're excited to see what you have in store. And again, John, thank you for joining us on the show. And we're looking forward to the next episode, whether it's 50 episodes, 100 episodes. We'll see what happens. You got it. Look out for my hat. in the mail. Love it. Cool. All right. Thank you, John. Thanks, John. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening to this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Please

make sure to follow and engage with us on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, and your favorite podcast app. Creatives Grab Coffee is created by LAPS Productions, a video production company based in Toronto, Canada. Creators Grab Coffee is also sponsored by My name is Miran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group band packages.

You can see our contact information in the link below. We're more than happy to help you guys out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativesgrapcoffee.com. Thank you. Hey, what's up, everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, fully. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto. We got you covered. Come on down, audio process.com. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to creativesgrabcoffey.com.

They'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. for you and we're all going to have a real good time. Thanks for listening and we'll see you on the next one.