Creatives Grab Coffee - Building a Video Business That Lasts (ft. Dream Engine) | Creatives Grab Coffee 85

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, we sit down with Ryan Spanger, founder of Dream Engine in Melbourne, Australia, to discuss the long game of running a successful video production business. With over 20 years in the industry, Ryan shares insights on scaling a production company, refining marketing strategies, and the importance of building long-term client relationships. We dive into the power of personal branding, leveraging content like LinkedIn and podcasts, and how to navigate networking authentically. If you’re looking to develop a sustainable video business, this episode is packed with practical strategies and inspiration. TIMESTAMPS00:00 – Introduction and sponsor shoutouts 02:19 – Welcoming Ryan Spanger from Dream Engine 02:40 – Ryan’s background and the start of Dream Engine 03:16 – Expanding into podcasting and coaching 04:56 – Common mistakes video businesses make 07:01 – The importance of building a structured marketing system 08:47 – The role of self-reflection in business growth 11:02 – Standardizing video services while adapting to different clients13:47 – Becoming a trusted advisor to clients 16:24 – The challenge of finding proactive leads vs. relying on referrals 17:32 – Targeting negative intent leads: Finding clients who aren’t actively looking for video 19:26 – The power of working with clients who already want video 21:58 – Networking strategies: How to plant seeds for future leads 23:44 – Finding the right communities to network in 26:30 – The “1000 True Fans” concept for building a loyal client base 29:31 – Playing the long game in business and networking 31:27 – The best content strategies for LinkedIn marketing 35:39 – Why quality posts matter more than frequency 36:39 – Experimenting with video content on LinkedIn 38:06 – The process behind Ryan’s podcast and topic selection 40:41 – The structure of Ryan’s solo podcast episodes 43:22 – The creative benefits of routine and rituals 46:39 – Biggest challenges for Lapse Productions: Sales and lead generation 49:14 – Marketing strategies and building an online presence 52:28 – Overcoming the discomfort of self-promotion 55:34 – How confidence and consistency impact branding 58:34 – Avoiding the trap of comparison in the video industry01:01:44 – The importance of avoiding regret in business 01:02:20 – Closing questions: How Dream Engine got its name and Ryan’s dream project 01:05:13 – Where to find Ryan and Dream Engine online 01:05:46 – Outro and final sponsor mentionsSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vHd8BdbkMQITFZmDJ0bo9🍏 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/creatives-grab-coffee/id1530864140 🎞️Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.comTo learn more about the show, visit: https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/

Welcome to Creative Scrap Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creative Scrap Coffee is hosted by Dario Nuri and Kirill Lazerov from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors. Do you have a shoot in Toronto?

Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? Laps Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. Laps Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder

fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPSProductions.com to learn more. My name is Mehran, welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you're a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group plan packages. You can see our contact information in the link below.

We are more than happy to help you guys out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativesgrapcoffee.com. Thank you. Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, Foley. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto.

We got you covered. Come on down. AudioProcess.ca. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to creativesgrabcoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you, I'll be waiting for you, and we're all gonna have a real good time.

And now, let's begin the show. Hi guys, welcome to another episode. Today we have a very special guest from Australia. So we have Ryan Spanger from Dream dream engine Ryan. Welcome to the show Hey guys. Thank you. Great to be here So we usually like to learn a little bit about the guest and their company and then we'll dive into some topics So why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. Well, I have a video production company in Melbourne, Australia called Dream Engine. I started the company in 2002 and probably like a lot of your listeners, I make corporate videos,

promotional, educational, training. We've got into live streaming over the last few years and we mainly work with medium and large businesses, government departments, universities, that sort of thing. And there's also two other things you do, which are podcasting and coaching. So I want you to tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, well, you know, having done my business for, I guess, over 20 years now, over the last few years, I was starting to be contacted by people who saw what I was doing and said hey can I come and learn from you and it just started organically where we would get together and I would

share with them and then really over the last couple of years it became something that I really formalized and as part of that. I really thought deeply around What is my style of coaching? You know, like how do I want to approach things? Where do I want to help take people to and so I sort of formalized that more as I guess like a coaching system and as part of that I have a podcast which is called the business of video production, which is connects with what you guys are doing very much. And every week I- Our sister podcast.

That's right. Every week I just, I talk, you know, it's mainly, it's pretty much just me getting on the microphone every week and sharing what I have learned about video production, the stuff I've done well, the mistakes that I've made. And it's something that I do that I'm enjoying very much. And with the coaching, who do you tend to kind of take on as like a mentee or mentor-mentee relationship?

I'm assuming that's kind of how you're going about it, but is it like people who are like fresh out of school, people who are just jumping into it, or is it people who have been in the industry for say five years, but are still trying to kind of break out a little bit more, get or learn something new? Like what is it typically like for you?

It's a little bit of a mix, and it's actually mainly people who get to know me through the podcast, and I guess the beauty of that is that they've been able to spend some time getting to know me, getting a sense of me, my philosophy, my values, you know, my approach. And they get quite a good sense of whether we're going to be aligned or not. But I guess it's quite a mix between people who are relatively new, people who might have, you might have started a production company

maybe a year or two ago and they've realized that they need a little bit more help to get themselves going, and people who are sort of in their 30s who've been doing things for a while but now really want to go to the next level and start to scale a bit more. But I actually find that a lot of the principles are the same, regardless of the point that they're at, because a lot of businesses, and I was in the same situation, have skipped a few steps along the way. A lot of us have almost got into business by accident, where we started working, we picked up a few jobs, we did some freelancing. Before we know it, we're running a production production company and things just kind of grew organically and so often you know there's there's a bunch

of steps that are worth going back and doing whether it's around branding whether it's around fixing the website identifying a little bit more clearly who your target market is and those I find those same principles apply whether you're relatively new or if you've been doing it for a few years. You mentioned that you say are oh sorry can I ask a question Kierl about the steps. Would you find more mention you mentioned there's some steps that a lot of us sometimes miss when we're growing our business what would you say are some of the most common ones you've noticed with the people you're coaching? Oh, okay.

No, my bad. I thought you were gonna bring it somewhere else. No, no, no, no, I was gonna dive into that more. The more common steps or mistakes that new businesses are making. I think one of the biggest ones is not actually formally planning and building like a marketing machine. You know, like not actually thinking about what your

system is to firstly identify who your market is, how you're going to get out there and talk to them, the messaging and then once you're having that conversation, how they're actually going to move from having the conversation to becoming a client. I think often because it just happens organically, we start to bring in work through word of mouth and through recommendations, or maybe someone kind of randomly finds your website or something like that. But you know in marketing they talk about this idea of an offer that converts you know to actually work on something to the point where you know that you have something whether it's a case study

video or an event video or whatever it might be you've kind of identified and then you have refined this product to the point that you know it's something that you can sell over and over and then also How you put it out there how you position it how you connect with your market and then the process of actually Converting that sale and yeah, I think that's where a lot of production companies need help So have you Well actually go ahead. Well, I was going to ask it because. You like, do you do a lot? Have you always done a lot of self reflection with your company as you were

growing it? Because I feel like to be able to get to a point where you're talk like coaching people and all that, you've put a lot of thought into your own company now. I have. yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I think back, I really surprised myself because I remember when I sort of formally started the business, where in my mind it was actually,

I'm launching a business, I've got a business name, and putting an offer out there. I said to myself, let's give this five years, you know, and let's conversations that you have with yourself. Let's reassess in five years time, but really, you know, go in for that time. And I think having that long term view. But then, yeah, definitely that's the challenge I think a lot of us have because basically, like really, we're all coaching ourselves, you know, whether you're working with a coach or not.

We're basically coaching ourselves. We're doing things, we're testing things, we're getting feedback and then refining. I guess we do that in our personal life as well. You know, you notice how you come across, what impact you're having on people, what your relationships are like. And, um, sometimes life deals you some harsh lessons and then it's, you know, the ability to take that lesson on board and change and evolve. And I think we're all doing that.

I imagine you guys are going through a similar process. Well, we have time. We try to. It's always ongoing. And like, you know, sometimes like it takes a few months where you're working on a lot of client projects. And then, you know, when there's a little bit of a quiet time, like in January,

this is where Dara and I are discussing things a little bit more of like, how was it last year? What do we want to do next year? What worked? What could potentially work for us next year? One thing you mentioned though that I was a bit curious about, you mentioned how a lot of,

one thing you're teaching a lot of people is find like a certain type of video product or something and refine it to the point where you know that you can sell it over and over and over again. But obviously in video production, we are in an industry where things fluctuate like crazy. And sometimes businesses need very different types of projects. So how do you go about kind of doing that, but also acknowledging that aspect of how different every project could potentially be?

I think that's a great point because it's probably similar with you guys. Most of our work is customized. We're not just selling like an off-the-rack sort of thing, but then you start to notice that you're doing a similar format. So I've noticed that with a lot of the jobs that we do, something entry-level might be a half-day shoot and a full-day edit. That could be something like, you know, interview and b-roll, a simple case study like, you know, interview and b-roll, a simple case study video, you know, something like that. And then the next thing that might be a little bit more complex

would be, say, a full-day shoot and a two-day edit, or a two-day shoot and a four-day edit. Often, I think it's falling into a format like that. And then there might be some things that vary, like motion graphics titles, maybe the complexity of the shoots, the size of the crew, but often that configuration is the same. And so I think you start to notice things that you're doing quite regularly and then the other thing that you notice is maybe the types of clients who commission those videos

or the types of conversations that you're having. So maybe another way to do it is identify clients by industry or by type. So I think for me, I've noticed that the main types of clients that we have, which are quite segmented and the conversations are different is one is business owners. So the way I'll talk to another business owner, particularly a small business will be in a particular way. An agency will be a very different type of conversation. And then like, I'll group together corporate government,

generally that's working with marketing and internal communications departments. So I think those are probably like the three main segments. And then you can kind of start to tailor your messaging based on the segment. So I think it's about identifying these commonalities. And then exactly like you say, it still is often a little bit different. But your sort of core like foundation messaging, I think is quite similar.

Yeah, like with most video projects, you will know that you're gonna need at least one to two days to film something, and then a certain amount of time for editing in regards to it, creative and pre-production could vary depending on also what you're putting together. So I guess you're just getting people started in thinking into thinking like that in one set and sector. And then once they know that, then they're

going to be able to expand to the others. Because like you, like you said, talking to a small business is going to be very different to talking to another agency or production company that you're collaborating with because you're offering different skills and different value to those different entities because they're different target markets altogether. That's right. And on that topic, I think the other thing that you can start to do as you build a relationship is you become like a trusted leader and an advisor. So you're not just responding to call outs for jobs, but you're having conversations

like on a strategic level and sharing things like, here's something that we're doing for some of our other clients that I think you'll be interested in. We're getting really good results with this. I find case study videos is the obvious thing. I've just seen the benefit. But how do you go about that?

I'm curious how you go about that. Like in terms of, it's one thing to tell clients about other ideas and other projects that you do. And usually we do that when we're having talks about a potential project already. Are you also referring to like current clientele that you have, you know, they may not necessarily be calling you for a video project right now,

but you may say, hey, here's a case study for a project we did. Is that kind of how you go about it or what is your process like for that? I think there's two main things. One is like gently educating them through your marketing, you know, whether it's through your regular emails that you're sending out to your list or whether it's through posting on LinkedIn, which can be a combination of like sharing examples of work that you've done recently or writing about video marketing. But it's also through building connections

with your clients and becoming like colleagues, you know, actually developing to a situation where they wanna start turning to you for guidance. Do you guys have, I find there's a particular type of client who I would say is like a small business moving to a medium sized business and when they're going well, they're looking for aggressive growth. Like there's a particular type of business

where maybe they have 10 staff, 15 staff, and they're just going well. They're actually looking for ideas. It's very different to a corporate where say someone in the marketing department has been tasked with the job of we need to make a case study video. This is a type of client who they're almost saying, hey, we want to do things. We want to spend money. We want to invest money in video. You know, what have you got?

And over time you start to develop that connection with them where they sort of look up to your creative expertise and are looking for guidance. So it's definitely not with every client, but I find that over time I do develop those relationships where they really are very open to being pitched ideas at the right time. Yeah, because the challenge is always trying to figure out a way to be more proactive in finding new leads and jobs. Because a lot of the time, we're very reactionary with leads that come to us. Whether it's word of mouth, someone recommended you to them,

or they find you on Google, they reach out to you through your website. A lot of positive intent leads. Yeah, like luckily there's a lot of positive intent in there, but also at the same time you feel like you can't always be just waiting around for leads and people to come, for opportunities to come to you. Like you feel like a lot of the time, and this is actually one thing that Dario and I are trying to like work on this year is being more proactive and trying to find different types of projects. So negative intent leads. That's that's what we're going to. That's a good way to put it. Yeah,

that's what they call it. It's it's ones that don't have they're not looking for, for example, for video content. Those are people you want to try to get as well. Right. Because if they're looking for video, then you're competing against everyone else in your bubble for their business. Right. So trying to get people that aren't thinking of actively thinking about it could also be another market to hit. Yeah. Do you go, do you have a process for that or do you let, are you kind of like more just letting leads come to you and you kind of work with them like that? So Dario, with what you were saying, I think that's a legitimate view. Like I don't think there's only one right way.

I have a different view. Like I only focus on people who already want video. I find it's very challenging to try to shift someone's view or their idea from not even wanting something to then getting them excited about video that's really taking them on quite a journey but with my personality naturally I don't really want to influence people that much in that way like I like to help people get what they want and if I know they're already going to get something, then

I'm pretty good at helping them to get there and making them an offer that's going to be compelling. So I love being in a situation where people already have strong intent. They're already planning on making a video. They're already looking around. Maybe they're going to look at three different providers and I'd like to be one of them and I'd like to put a compelling offer in front of them and and help them to make that decision. It's sort of like you know if I was going out to get some food and I really wanted a burger and someone said to me well you know let me tell you about pizza I know this great pizza place it's fantastic you know you've got to try it and I'll be like well I actually really wanted to get a burger. Yeah. But once you try these pizzas, let me tell you, you know, you're going to

love it. So, um, I probably will just stick with the burger no matter how good, you know, that pizza is. So, um, it's a good thing. Focusing on people who really want the thing already. And then think about the best place to find it. And the number one place is people who are already getting it from you. So you know that they already like you, you've already delivered them a successful result. So giving them the opportunity to buy again and again not trying to convince them, not trying to persuade

them or put pressure or anything, but just reminding them that you're there and making offers at the appropriate time. And then also the people that they know, whether it's through, or really through recommendations. And it can be challenging at first to have that conversation, and it's usually based around at the right time saying, I love working with you guys. I would love the opportunity to work with other people just like you and giving them the opportunity to recommend you and often we forget that when you do such a great job for people they love the opportunity to recommend you. So it might feel like

like a real ask like we're asking for a favor but you know that feeling when someone's done a great job for you, you probably love recommending them, you probably love saying to your friends, hey, there's this guy who did this thing, it was awesome, if you're ever looking for this thing. So I think those are the two places that I would start. Yeah, asking for recommendations is a good new way of potentially drumming up new business because again, a lot of the time it is a lot easier to just have people, as you put it,

who's looking for video, looking for a burger coming to you who is the burger provider, right? What I was specifically kind of like more so talking about in terms of proactive is not so much calling up individual businesses and being like hey Do you need video because you're right? It doesn't work it like 99% of the time that doesn't work We're I'm more so talking about kind of I guess in a way more so than networking a way to kind of plant seeds With a lot of different people in different industries That just to get them to know that you are there for video when they do need it.

Cause everyone may not need video right away, but they might need it eventually, right? Like for example, I was part of this one marketing organization just going to a lot of the events, getting to know people and we didn't get any certain jobs for like about two years. And then after that, that's when people started recommending us

because at that point they knew us as the video people right so do you do anything proactive in that sense you know in terms of like specific networking or outreach in that in that kind of way i think it's a great point that you're making and it's like an excellent source of leads and over the years i've tried a lot of things. You know, like it took me many years to really work out who I was and how I fitted into the video production industry and get to know my personality

and you know, you've got to play to your strengths. So I tried a lot of things over the years that weren't necessarily me. Like I went along to BNI, which I imagine you guys would know. It's probably the most well-known business networking group. And I think quite a few video people have tried it and some people have had success and that sort of thing. I thought that it was kind of semi-successful, but I once did an exercise where I added up all the time that I invested going to meetings, you know, traveling back and forth, having separate meetings, and I found it

wasn't a great return for me, but I also found for me personally, I just, I wasn't great at that real business networking sort of thing, like going to events, handing out cards, you know, that sort of thing, but what I found was I was pretty good at networking when I wasn't even meaning to. Like I was reflecting on the amount of work that's come to me over the last few years just through like through friends and colleagues, people that I know through different networks, through different social groups and that sort of thing. But I was never consciously trying to promote myself. Just naturally would come up, you know, what do you do and that kind of thing.

Maybe you just connect on LinkedIn or they would connect with you, they would see you on social media. And that's something that I found has been really good for me. But yeah, definitely I think networking is a really powerful thing. Is that something that, Carol,

that you're out there doing? That's one thing we're trying to do more of. And you nailed it right on the head about how the best way to go about it is to try to be more natural. And that's kind of what we're trying to see in terms of where to go in terms of different organizations or marketing associations that might be within your city

or something like that You know just to be in the community and just get to know people I think try to be natural not going at it from a very Transactional point of view right and that was the problem with BNI because I got introduced to BNI as well And I went to one of those intro meets and though I had a few questions about the whole process and it was very transactional based from how they were talking about it. What do you mean by that? So what essentially would BNI was was like you would be a group of like say ten business owners each from different industries and the whole point is to try

to encourage people to recommend each other right so maybe one person's a lawyer one person's an accountant one person's a lawyer, one person's an accountant, one person's a photographer, and each chapter or each subgroup is like its own community, right? So it's trying to create like a business community of like people that are not stepping on each other's toes. But the problem with that group was that it was very strict with everyone meeting at a certain day and time every single week. You're not allowed to not make it or you get like two absences a year, which is really funny. And they were saying every week you have to come

to that meeting with at least one or two qualified lead recommendations for someone in the group, which is- Oh really? It was way too, like I was even telling them, I'm like, guys, this sounds very inauthentic, forcing one to drum up business in a way that... Not everyone has the time to do it. But the benefit is that they would be doing it for you too. But at the same time, it's like...

But how can you qualify a lead for another business owner? That makes no sense. It's like, what am I supposed to do? Like do sales for everyone in that group on a weekly basis. Yeah. Yeah. So like that seemed very transactional and that's not what we're after. You know, it's more so like the planting the seed approach, you know, and just kind of

being you getting known and that's, I know, and just kind of being you Getting known and and that's I think is definitely the best way to do it Like I was more so curious Ryan if there were any like particular types of organizations or like communities that you've embedded yourself in that you find Has brought you some potential, you know value down the road whether it was a client or not because sometimes You know people can recommend other people that can help you when you need help, right? I think you really nailed it there with that word transactional. And with BNI, with the referrals,

people would turn up with weak leads because they would, you'd go on a list, and there would be a list at the end of the month, how many leads have you given? And so I'd be given these weak leads that I would pursue and I'd invest good time and then not convert them. And so the system is sort of designed to fail

unless you're the type of business where everyone can use your service, and then it's great for them. Whereas the video guys, I don't know, maybe some people do really well. But you know, on that topic, there was an essay that I came across that Tim Ferriss introduced to a lot of people. And this was at least 10 years ago. And it's called A Thousand True Fans. I don't know if you've ever come across that. I've heard of it like way back About the first thousand true fans can push you further than anything else

Like that's I think that's what the message was But if you know for any of our listeners or listeners who don't know it like do that's true Then I guess we're 900 away from hitting that goal But well, you know the thousand is interchangeable, you know, so for everyone it could be different it could be 50 true fans it could be different. It could be 50 true fans. It could be 20. The idea is that can you gather a very small, microscopic group of people who love what you do,

who will either buy what you have as regular clients and swear by what you do and recommend you and that sort of thing. Or even if they can't buy what you have, be your advocates. They just believe in what you do, they love what you do. And over time, and this can happen very naturally and organically, you just accumulate people. Like you accumulate people in your world who don't feel like you've

entered their world just to sell them something, but there is a genuine connection there, they do genuinely appreciate your work. And I think over time you gather the small group of people behind you who, I mean fans, that's an interchangeable word, but it's people that just like what you do who are going to help move you forward. And I like that idea of just people that I come across, whether it's friends or colleagues or clients or whoever it might be, approaching it with the idea that if at all possible they will be better off for having known you. That you will give them genuine advice if they're not a good match you'll let

them know that. If you know a way of helping them you know you'll do that. And you will ideally just leave having done no damage but ideally make their world a little bit better and I think just over time if you keep on operating like that then people just get a sense of you're a decent person. You're an expert at what you do and over time that'll happen, but it's a long game. Yeah, it is definitely a long game.

And like to embed yourself in a way like that in a community where a lot of people can see you like that, I saw firsthand that it takes quite a while before something comes from it. It got to the point where I was starting to think, yeah, maybe being part of this organization is not really yielding much. A lot of the people that I know there are not, I know they're not going to be clients eventually, but then all of a sudden this huge project that fell on our laps last year, and it turned out great for us. And it was like,

okay, there's something here. So now I'm getting back into the mode of thinking, okay, now let me get back in there, continue building those relationships and what other communities could we potentially join to kind of be a part of it. A community that I'm a part of. Maybe Dari will be part of a different community. That way it's not so much both of us in each one, but it's like, you know, we're in, we're trying to dip our toes in different lakes, you know, kind of, kind of that approach. I think that's great. I think it's really worth it. You know, once you've done your research, you're almost coming up with a working hypothesis. Like you're not just entering a community blindly, like going fishing. I'll just throw the rod in here. You're, you have a sense that you're not just entering a community blindly, like going fishing. I'll just throw the rod in here.

You're, you have a sense that you're in the right place. Hey, maybe nothing will happen. You could be wrong, but you have a sense that this is worth pursuing. And then it's like really focusing on process versus outcome. And that's always hard because we want results, you know, we want reward. We want affirmation for our efforts. And I guess generally the longer that you're able to pursue something without getting the reward, the more that potential reward is. And just when nothing happens,

just reminding yourself, you know, just keep at it, keep on going. And then at a certain point, you reassess. But yeah, your ability to think long term, I think will make make a big difference. So I definitely think you guys are heading in the right way there. I Want to go back to marketing a little bit you mentioned you do you focus on LinkedIn and newsletters? I'm just wondering what type of content have you found? Works better it works best for you In terms of like posting it on LinkedIn or newsletters?

So starting with LinkedIn for me personally it's firstly only posting when I've got something that I think is useful or interesting, not following a posting schedule and feeling like hey it's Tuesday I have to put something out there. So I think that's the first thing is aspiring for quality and being useful. Then I think secondly it's actually having an opinion and taking a stand. It doesn't mean that everything you post needs to be a hot take or something like that. But it's really important to have a view. You know like what was popular for years were these listicle style posts as they call

them. Like it could be something like how to present well on camera, you know, number one, rehearse your lines, like number two, smile, whatever it might be. And that was already mediocre content. Now it's completely redundant because chat GPT will give you whatever you want straight away. So it's becoming more and more about injecting your personal experiences and viewpoints. Things that are like a little bit more unique to you. And then I think after that with LinkedIn is probably just a

combination of like sometimes posting an opinion, sometimes posting work that you have done that you're proud of, and sometimes posting ideas. A lot of the stuff that I post is actually from conversations that I have with clients. I might be on a shoot and someone will ask me something or I'll explain something and I'll just sort of make a mental note, oh that would be a cool idea for a post. And then I put it in my notes on my phone

immediately, even if it's just a line or two. And if I don't do that, that second, I'll almost always forget it. Even though in my mind I'll be thinking, oh, this will be such a cool post, it'll just go. So that's how I do LinkedIn. Like it's not a master plan, but it's most of my LinkedIn strategy is actually just to stay in touch with my clients and prospects and connections like just to remind them that I'm there so that when it's time for them to make a decision they'll think of me and then there's a whole other approach to LinkedIn which is more actively networking connecting with people you don't know, commenting and liking their posts

and then DMing them. I don't do a huge amount of that because I want to play to my strengths and I find that unless I am like genuinely interested in connecting with them, I find it hard to work a system like that. You know, like sometimes you'll see on LinkedIn, people will write, hey great post, you know, like I've got actually really feel it. So it's it's hard for me to say I'm gonna comment on 10 posts or I'm gonna DM 10 people. I also hate being interrupted, you know, like I hate people just cold pitching me, sending me cold emails, that sort of thing. And so I don't wanna do the thing

that I don't like really having done to me. So I'll only do that if there's something really specific where I will see someone that I would love to connect with or I would love to do work for them. And then I'll pursue that individually. So that's mainly how I'm using LinkedIn. I don't know if you guys wanna talk more about that or we could talk about the other part which you mentioned which is emails. No that was I mean if you want to keep going with

LinkedIn I'd love to explore that a bit more. Yeah because I like what you're I like your entire approach and demeanor on it where it's you're trying to be you're trying to post quality in the sense of not necessarily just content that obviously gives value to the people viewing it, but it's Content that actually shows that it's you who's actually talking about I feel like nowadays people are Getting very numb to like the very classic LinkedIn business posts, you know Have you started doing like have you started doing like video versions of your post? Yeah, I was curious about that. I feel like I get a much better response from the written stuff. I have made videos, you know, I've done like pieces to camera and that sort of thing. And it

just, it doesn't seem to get as good a response. And I think it's because people can't be bothered watching a video like if I do like a two or three minutes piece to camera I just don't think most people have the interest or the attention span to sit through that you gotta put like a Minecraft video at the bottom half of the video that's the only way to keep attention yeah but it makes sense because if you're reading something and it's only like a like a one paragraph quick opinion post as you mentioned, it is a lot faster for someone to just kind of scroll through see it and then even like think about it and maybe might engage with it,

right? But I wonder if have you experimented with like different versions like because I'm thinking maybe it was too long because two to three minutes is a long time like and did you have like did you make it modern where it's like it's got the captions and like the words like pop out the ones that are spoken like pop up and all that stuff or no conclusive evidence. Like it's all just putting stuff out there. You know, so I think with all this stuff there's no actual rules. You know, like I think it's got to be something that really resonates with you. And often I think it's like choosing the thing that you feel like you do really well and then doubling down on it rather than trying to cover too many different things. So I feel like for me, I enjoy the writing process. I have some unique views and I'll put them out there. And always having a compelling image really helps as well.

Podcasting, I've really doubled down on that. Like I put in a lot of effort into the podcast that I put out there. Like I really think hard, I kind of work hard on what the content is gonna be I plan it out quite carefully I try to make the production values as high as possible and That's something that I've really invested a lot of time and energy into and yeah I personally think it's worth finding those one or two things and just really trying to do them as as well as possible. I liked I really like your podcast and you were telling me in the pre-interview how you

You've been committed to once a week and you're currently on your 50th episode. Like how many episodes have you done so far again? It's like 40 something 42 It's crazy. If you did that every single week, that's impressive It took us a few years to get to what 85 I think we're at now and like the first year we only did like 12 episodes Then we took a year off then we came back and we just basically did about 20 a year Up until now and that's how we got to where we are. But now we're getting we've gotten the process down to a way to make it Weekly, so we're trying to we're trying to keep up with you now, you know

Well, actually that that just contradicts what I said about sticking to a weekly to a regular posting schedule But with the podcast I did commit to quality content every week and I knew that to grow an audience I was going to need to do that because it was all going to be organic and so yes I did commit to a regular schedule but I also committed to making sure that I did my best on every single episode which I've done so far like I've never just released something for the sake of it oh you know week is coming I better just put something out there I've actually really put my heart and soul into just making it as good as possible as good as I

could possibly do. It's probably it just improved you know as time has gone on. I listened to a couple and I was gonna say I listened to a couple and they're very detailed like how do you come up with your topics? I actually, what works really well for me is when I'm driving, I have ideas and that's where I do most of my idea generation is almost always when I'm driving and I just have time to think then I'll think of an idea and then I'll usually just dictate it into

the phone and I'll just put my ideas in there kind of as they pop up or I've really trained myself to with whatever I'm doing when I have ideas to get them into my notes straight away and then you know once I've got the ideas I'll maybe I'll think of a structure or I'll think of an idea or maybe a few anecdotes so I always like to put in personal stories of stuff which kind of helps give the lesson. So yeah, that's my creative approach. There's something about being in a car.

There's something about moving. I don't know what it is, but it kind of, it really gets me thinking. So like taking a shower, you always get your best ideas in the shower. So exactly the same type of thing. It's so true. shower. You always get your best ideas in the shower. Exactly the same type of thing. So true. Yeah.

So just for our listeners, just so they know kind of in terms of like what type of format you're doing, like our format is very much like we are talking to other business owners and trying to learn about them through a discussion. Whereas yours, from what it sounds like, it's a lot of like, are you by yourself a lot of the time? Yeah, you know what it reminds me of, Kirill? It reminds me of the time? Just kind of like going over these things? Yeah, you know what it reminds me of, Kirill? It reminds me of the Two Bob's podcast. Like, you'll pick like a topic and just like dive into it. Yeah, it's really good actually.

But you're just by yourself most of the time, or do you also interview other people? It's almost always me by myself. I have had a couple of guests over the time. So every now and then, if I can think of something, someone that I would love to interview, I actually did a podcast about 10 years ago which was all interview based and I did 29 episodes of that and so I decided for this one I wanted to do something quite different which would mainly

be me talking and exactly right as you say Dari I'll choose a topic whether it's sales or writing proposals or whatever it might be and and then I'll just go deep on that topic and I'll just share everything you know that I know and I'm really not holding back I'm just wanting to get all my best stuff out there and just and really to share my ideas so I just try to think of a structure where I can take people on a little bit of a journey. And it is fairly organic as well. I'm just thinking as I go and just trying to make it, it's generally around 20, 25 minutes. And my hope is that when people listen,

then maybe they'll just take one or two things and implement them and run with them. Wow, yeah, no wonder you have to really spend a lot of, you must have spent a lot of time than focusing on it because to generate a lot of content just by yourself, it does take a lot of pre-planning and prep. Whereas like for Dario and I, I feel like we got the luxury of just being two very curious people and we rely on that to guide a lot of our conversations. We have some set standard questions and sometimes we see something from someone's website or their portfolio that intrigues us a little bit so we know what we want to talk about. But a lot of it is just letting the discussion flow naturally as naturally as if, you know, it's two, three people

coming together drinking a cup of coffee and just chatting, right? Whereas for you, it's you have to come up with a structure, a hypothesis like a like content and then like an overall message that you're trying to give. So yeah, I'm definitely gonna check out your podcast. I'm very curious to hear your approach. You know what I mostly do is I go to car wash. And the drive to the car wash is about 15 minutes. And so I'll capture some ideas. And then I'll wash my car. And then I'll have ideas while I'm doing that. And then I'll get in the car and drive back home. And then I'll just finish off with the rest of the ideas so I've kind of developed this practice you

know it just seems to work for me. You go to a car wash every week? That's impressive. It's part of the process. He needs to be spraying water at his car for the creative ideas to flow right? You know it's cost of doing business. I, if I was developing a script for a client, it's like, I have to go to the car wash. Yeah. They know you by a personal basis. Hey, it's Ryan again. Oh, ready for another podcast idea session?

Can we pause halfway through and I'll go wash my car and then we'll carry on the podcast. Yeah he needs more inspiration for the rest of the discussion right. There's something about ritual you know and I don't know if it's the same with you guys but I find that there's different like if I'm doing script writing I love sitting in a cafe I don't know why I love having the buzz of the noise around me and action. Whereas with a lot of the work that I do, it needs to be very quiet.

So have you found that there's sort of different environments where you work? I always need something playing in the background. So I'll either have like a show or a movie, just cause I don't know what it is. Like maybe I'm lonely, who knows, but. I feel like we as creatives need something like in the background always just to kind of like,

just so that it's not absolute silence all the time. It could be something like that. I mean, also we work, we're people who work from home a lot. It's not like we have a set routine where we always are going to an office. I mean, obviously it varies for some people. So we are alone basically. So yeah, we are alone at home. You know, like my wife is going to an office. I mean, obviously it varies. So we are alone basically.

So yeah, we are alone at home, you know, like my wife is going to work every morning and then she's like, okay, yeah, you're not really going to work. You're just staying at home, you know. Watching movies in the background. I know, yeah, comes home, sees movies in the background. She's like, are you actually working? It's like, yes, don't worry. But yeah, so sometimes you just need some kind of different things to kind of disrupt the routine, you know, whether it's going to the gym for an hour midway through the day to just kind of like break it up a little bit. And I find a lot of the time when I go there, I get a lot of my ideas and thinking just, you know, by being there.

Darius, I know sometimes goes to the library just to do some certain work as well for that kind of similar. I used to but I don't like how some people cough and stuff and then I don't know who's sitting up. Nevermind, that went away very quickly. I don't know who sits at these desks. You know like. But yeah like we need something to break up the day I find sometimes, that's for sure.

I would love to know guys like it could be out of the stuff that we've talked about or maybe something different. What's the big thing for you? Like what's the biggest challenge you have or what's the thing like, I know you mentioned networking. What's the thing that you're really focusing on or what's the thing that you really need to work on?

Sales for me at least. I really need to focus a lot on doing more. I see that, I guess that ties into like the networking aspect as well, right? Like I know Kirill and I definitely need to get out there more, talk to more people. And then on my end, I want to see how I can maybe target different industries that we kind of have some experience in already. So again, that kind of ties into what I was saying earlier about like negative intent leads like trying to see like, for example, like we have a client in the optometry space and we saw kind of like who their sponsors were and there were other people in their

space too. So I was like, okay, what if we already have, we actually have two clients in that space. Why don't we just start to target more people there because we have like the portfolio. So I wanna do more targeted stuff in specific industries like finance and healthcare. That way it's like more. Is it more around lead generation

or is it also the actual sales process itself? Oh, I think lead generation. I think our sales process, I mean, I'm not gonna say it's, I would never say it's the best one. It always, everything always has, everything always has room for improvement, but I think we do pretty well with the people we pitch to. I think our closure rate is pretty high.

It's good to own that. You feel that's an area that you feel confident, that you feel competent in, and then it sounds like it's more generating the leads and where to focus on and how to build those leads. Is that right? Yeah, because we've been doing this a long time. We've been doing this 10 years

and we're passionate about what we do. So when we do get in front of a lead, a lead, like I know how to close them on, on, on us, you know, but I just need to get in front of the, the lead. I need them to come to me. Yeah. And on my end, in terms of like the business side of things, one thing I know we need to do more of is the actual kind of marketing and active presence like online for people to kind of see us more.

Um, and that's one thing that Darren are actually right now working on, like some BTS type content that we're starting to kind of produce so that we can get ourselves out there a little bit more to just not try to be showing off too much, but it's, you know, just here's a little bit of who we are. Here's a little bit of what we've been doing, just kind of updates rather than just doing an email to a client or sending newsletters. Like those are good to do, but I feel like there's always more that can be.

Like I know this would be an addition. It would be an addition to that stuff. Yeah, this would be an addition, exactly. If we are planning on doing newsletters and more LinkedIn posts and stuff like that nature. One thing that I've always seen that is interesting, there's this one producer shooter that we know who, he posts like crazy.

I don't know how he does it, but it's not like he's posting his work all the time, but it's like a lot of like his like little photos or like inspirational quotes that it kind of works for him because it's showing like his process of like what a typical like work day or a shoot day might be like for him you know aside from just the bts you know like like as soon as like he gets in the car to go or something like that he's done so much bts stuff like that over the years and it's the one thing that i noticed

at first i thought like okay this is a lot of things that he's doing. Like why I don't feel like everyone needs to see all that. But then one thing I noticed that is a good result of what he's doing is he's always at the very top of, uh, of the, of the social media stories, like Instagram stories. Everyone is constantly seeing that he's busy, that he's doing work. So it's like, okay, you know, maybe a lot of clients are starting to notice that they see that he's busy

and he's always top of mind as a result. And I think that's what he's doing good. He's doing a very good way of being top of mind for everyone in his network. So he's constantly working. So it's like a snowball effect almost for him. So I'm just trying to think of like, also how we could potentially do that for us

that is also authentic to us. Cause what works for one person does not necessarily work for others. Cause if it's not you, it's gonna feel inauthentic when you're doing it. Like I'm not gonna be posting the laptop every five seconds, right? Plus if you over post,

I feel like sometimes it just becomes annoying. Like, and you just unmute that person or whatnot, right? It's gotta be, I guess, kind of to what Ryan was saying earlier, it has to be like something that's important. It fits you. It fits you and it, and it's, um, it has to fit you and it has to fit like what your audience is looking for at the same time. So you just, I think that's the thing, we're trying to figure out what makes sense for us.

I really like the way you're thinking. I think a lot of people like BTS stuff, and obviously it demonstrates your expertise, but it kind of takes people, there is a little bit of mystique or glamor about filmmaking, even if it's corporate video, you know, even if it's just interview and B-roll, there's something kind of cool about it and, you know, clients will make jokes about bringing out the red carpet and the

popcorn, like they have all these associations. So I think people naturally have an interest in cameras and filmmaking and kind of showing them how you do that. There's a lot of things that we do that are so easy for us that we take for granted that can really wow people. Like I think color grading, you know, people like to do that before or after kind of thing. Yeah. That's a good idea. Cure.

I actually break that down. I, you know, I'm, I'm already like coming up with little ideas and I'm just like quietly just, all right, let me just type this, you know, theme of fun. Because that's what it is, you know, the BTS is fun, right? Like showing that the set is fun for clients. There's two keys to this.

Like the first thing is, or like this world that we live in now with social media and self promotion and all that, like it's by definition it's weird and artificial like suddenly there's this thing which has never happened in human history where we have to be out there doing our own PR where we're saying hey look at me you know like in front of everyone I've here's a selfie and and like we're talking ourselves up and it's kind of awkward

particularly for like I'm quite an introverted person. My natural way is not to put myself out there like that. So it's firstly just accepting that this is kind of weird and artificial and then just embracing it for what it is. And then I think once you've done that, think from the point of view like imagine if someone else owned your business and they had hired you to run it. You're the CEO and you're working for them. What would you do?

Your role is to bring success to the business. Maybe the business has shareholders or there's a board of directors that you have to answer to. Then you're not gonna say to them, oh yeah, I don't really like social, I don't like making a big deal out of myself, I don't like to draw too much attention, or social media is inauthentic,

or you know, whatever it might be. It's just, you just do it, I think, as part of the game, because you do have to take on and adapt itself to some degree. You are in a business role, and you're playing a role, and you're putting yourself out there. It's like, it's a bit theatrical in a business role and you're playing a role and you're putting yourself out there. It's a bit theatrical in a way.

So firstly, it's that acceptance. But then secondly, it's actually falling in love with the process, like actually choosing the thing that you do that you can actually enjoy. Like you're going to do it regularly if you enjoy doing the BTS stuff or you enjoy writing Controversial posts on LinkedIn or you enjoy putting out a weekly podcast like I think now you guys have really On a roll with this podcast. You love doing it. You love the conversations that you're having. It's not work It's not some it's not anything hard. So trying to find stuff. That really compatible with you that expresses you. And then I think the final thing is actually stepping up as a leader, for want of a better word, that most people will lurk on social

media and they actually won't post. They'll just read other people's stuff, but either they don't... By putting yourself out there and posting regularly, you're basically claiming some type of leadership Or thought leadership or whatever you're saying I value myself and my opinions enough that I'm going to put the stuff out there and I'm going to risk Embarrassments or I'm going to risk no one clicking like and not getting that feedback or whatever it might be so really committing to stepping up and I think that is very attractive

to a lot of prospects and clients that you value yourself and your beliefs and your knowledge enough to put yourself out there. Yeah, because it'll show confidence too, to your network. And it's a subtle thing where it's like, you're confident enough to put yourself out there and then the client will think to themself,

or the lead might think to themself, oh, if he's that confident about himself, I'm sure he'll be confident about the other work that he's talking about. So I think, yeah, it's funny, because we're in the business of promoting other businesses, and yet we forget to promote ours. It almost feels like a bit of an imposter kind of approach.

It's like, it's not me, it's not that like you, like you said, Ryan, and I guess it's kind of trying to break through that and separate like from the personal aspect, also from the business, right? Because it's some people are like, that's all they do. All they do is post constantly and it's and it's very hard for the people who don't post constantly to also kind of keep up with that noise as well when you think about it. Maybe instead of posting constantly,

it's just more about posting consistently. So if you choose to do it like once a month, at least commit to the once a month and do something good, even if it's once a month, cause at the end of the year it'll be 12. So if you have 12 really good posts, they'll be better than, you know, 50 mediocre or low grade posts, right? I agree. I totally agree with that Dario. Yeah, committing to consistency but also quality. Like say to yourself, I have to post one quality post,

you know? And sometimes it's something you've got to dig a little bit deep on. And now, especially with AI, there's a temptation to just manufacture stuff. And you've got to put your heart in it a little bit, you know, like, there's got to be a level of risk. You've got to be risking failure and you've got to, you know, sometimes when you work on an edit and you really wrestle with it, do you ever have that experience where you're working on something that's not quite working, you're struggling, maybe you go for a walk, you think about it, you come back, but you're actually putting

a little bit of your heart and soul into it. Like I think with any content you create, there's gotta be a level of that as well. Oh yeah. I also think, I also think, I'm sure you were talking about how like we don't promote ourselves but we're in the business of helping others promote themselves. I think part of the reason might also be the

emotional stake we put on it because it's not very logical thinking when you break it down. It's very emotional like, oh I feel insecure or like, oh what if this isn't good or that isn't good or I'm busy with that? I'll put it to the wayside. Yeah. And I think it's also a matter of like sometimes where you're happy to promote like it like and do great work for the client, but then like you have your own personal standard or maybe even idea of what you should be doing that you in a way devalue yourself and your work more than it really should be, right? And I think that's one thing we need to remember. It's like, we also have to stop looking

at what other people are doing always and comparing. And that's one of the biggest things I think people struggle in our business. We're constantly comparing ourselves to other professionals, like to other people in our industry who are at certain levels where you think, it's like, oh, they're there, we should be there too, why aren't we there?

And then it's like, if we're not there, then what's the point of promoting ourselves with what we have, you know? And we keep forgetting, it's like, I mean, we've been here for 10 years, you know? There was a certain point where we weren't thinking like this back in the day. I think it also comes with the knowledge

of knowing what the industry is like now. Like when you first start, you don't know what's happening. So you're just naively like putting yourself out there. It's like, I'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll be good. But now after being in it for a while, it's kind of like, oh, you know,

like now I know just how much, how many people there are there that are much better than what I do than me. So it's a constant inner battle I think a lot of us face. What do they call that? Knowledge paralysis or? Knowledge, maybe, maybe. It sounds like it would be something like that.

I think it's a great point that you make, Carol, that it's easy when you see people who appear to be further down the line than you are, it can be dispiriting. And it can be, that's the danger of social media, I guess, where they're putting out this idealized version of themselves. And it's really hard not to, like we all do that to some degree. And other people then experience that idealized version because we're choosing a very small part of reality and then possibly putting a positive spin on it as well. So yeah I think it's good to

see what else is out there but just to really focus on your own thing. One of the philosophies that really drives me with all that sort of thing is the idea of regret and I think it to me there's good regrets and there's bad regrets. Like for me good regret is if I try something but I mess up, I made a mistake. The good regret, the good thing is that I acknowledge it and I'll learn and then maybe do it better next time. Bad regret is the things that I didn't do that I probably could have or should have, like I didn't give it a go and that's actually something that really drives me is that thought of looking back and saying if only you know if only I put myself out there more if only I'd really

seen where I could take my business to if only I'd had the courage to really put things on the line you know and I think as I get older I feel that more and more of really not wanting to look back and have that sense of regret and so that will sometimes drive me with the decisions that I make about promoting myself even if it's a bit scary or even if it might rub people up the wrong way or you know if I don't come across well if I happen to fail in that time it's really just with that sense of avoiding that regret of just looking back and I apply that to a lot of things in my life, whether it's about sports, like I'm

quite into cycling and with that I just wanted to see where I could take things as well. I just really didn't want to look back and say I could have, I had unused potential, do you know what I mean? How many topics have we given you for your podcast? I could have, I had unused potential. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. How many topics have we given you for your podcasts? And I think you have like a good like five to 10 topics you can talk about. I think your next five to 10 weeks are good.

Yeah. Just break down this podcast. I want you to go to the car wash. Yeah, save money. Don't go to the car wash. Yeah. No, that's a very powerful point. I think we could probably end the discussion there because we've already gone over the

one hour mark. But Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. And I'm very curious to hear about your topics and how you break them down because that's something that not a lot of people in our industry do. So can't wait to see what the- Before we end off though, Karel, tradition, come on. Oh yeah. We have two questions for tradition. Well, it's just the one really.

How did you come up with the name Dream Engine? It was actually quite a technical process in that I have a friend who works in advertising and when I started the business, we did a session together and he has a process of idea generation, which is great, which is just write down lots of ideas without judging them. And I think we came up with like 20 or 30 different names for the business. And there were actually one or two others that I had in front of that

which I tried to register, but had already been had already been taken. And so there was one of the things on the list. But from a personal level, for me was the combination of something creative and something technical. So dream being in a very creative and engine, you know, being very functional, and very business like and I think that's really what we do is that combination of creativity and business and or practicality. So being very functional and very business-like. And I think that's really what we do is that combination of creativity and business or practicality.

So for me, it really resonates for that reason. Nice. I like the philosophy behind it. I do have one more question, which I'm always curious about is what would you say is like maybe a dream project of yours that you want to kind of strive for like a dream client potentially depending? Yeah, that's a good question because I guess so much of the time it's this business like process that for me personally, I love documentaries.

I've always loved documentary making. I went to film school and I studied documentary making and I've tried to incorporate elements of documentary into the corporate work that I do. I have made some actual documentaries, but that's the stuff that I love the most, human stories and following them over a period of time. It's not always practical and financially viable

to make that kind of content. But I think for me, if I was given the opportunity to really follow a human story over a period of time in an observational documentary like classic long form documentary filmmaking, that would be a dream project for me Nice All right. Well, yeah, I think we can end it off there So guys if you want to find a Ryan go to dream engine calm dot a you

And your podcast is the business of video production, correct? That's right. And the best way to link to that is through my personal website, which is my name And your podcast is the business of video production, correct? That's right. And the best way to link to that is through my personal website, which is my name, ryanspanger.com. And then I guess you're coaching business also on there too, right? Correct. Cool. Guys, thank you so much.

I've loved this conversation. It's been great to connect with you. Thank you. Same here. Loved our very philosophical discussion. That's for sure. Our existential discussion. Episode. All right. Well, thank you, Ryan. Thanks Ryan. Thanks guys.

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