Creatives Grab Coffee - How to Navigate Client Relationships | Creatives Grab Coffee 49

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

JOIN OUR PATREON FOR EXCLUSIVE CONTENT: https://www.patreon.com/CreativesGrabCoffee GET 2 MONTHS OF FREE HOSTING WITH KINSTA: https://kinsta.com/wordpress-hosting/?kaid=ECCBZWELRZHUOn the latest episode of "Creatives Grab Coffee", we sat down for an eye-opening chat with Zach Yokum from Mileshko, a video production company based in Atlanta Georgia.Get ready as we dive into contracts, pricing hacks, team dynamics, client relations, and why you might want to consider the retainer model.Key Takeaways:📜 Navigating Contracts: Understand contracts to protect your business and set clear client expectations.💵 Pricing Strategies: A flexible, tiered pricing model can help manage your workflows.👥 Well-Rounded Team: Multi-talented team members are the gears that keep the machine running smoothly.🤝 Managing Client Expectations: Clear and open communication is the cornerstone of long-term relationships.💼 The Retainer Model: Is it right for your business and your client. Identifying when it will work.SUBSCRIBE and FOLLOW for more episodes! https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/Produced by: https://www.LapseProductions.com

All right, guys, welcome to episode 49 of Creative Scrap Coffee. Today we have Zach from Maleshko. Zach, welcome to the show. Hey, you nailed the pronunciation too. Props. It sounds like Eastern European. So I have a lot of friends that are Eastern Europeans. I kind of, I was like, I can nail this one.

Well done. Well done. Full marks. You know why it's probably spelt like that is because that's how it was written and spelt in Eastern European. So they took the English way of spelling it to be exactly like that. You're not far off. It was definitely an Ellis Island machination.

It was actually originally M-E-L-E. And then they're like, eh, we'll throw an I in there. It's more English sounding. There's another scene in Sopranos where Phil Leotardo is upset. His last name used to be Leonardo and they changed it to Leotardo. Do you remember that episode? I've not seen it but that

tracks. You'd think someone would have heart and go like, oh, you know what? Now that I say that out loud, I don't want to insult you for the rest of your life. So, interesting story about Zach is they actually reached out to us on our contact form on the site and they're like hey we saw your content on linkedin it really resonated with us and i was like oh nice and then i checked you guys out i'm like oh they do a lot of cool stuff

where are they based out of atlanta georgia i'm like well what do you know we don't have any guests from atlanta georgia so i reached out i'm like hey you guys want to come on the podcast or what sweet yeah hey happy to represent the atl the atl how'd you guys find us uh by the way yeah we were just looking for like-minded creatives online and we uh we were thinking all right we should get into like doing some more podcasts we had i'd actually done it on the side uh i'm a huge nerd. So anything Marvel, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, I'm your guy. And we did one during the pandemic. Everyone and their mother seemed like they did like, hey, let's start a podcast because we're at home. But we never thought of doing it for professional purposes. And so we were like, I bet you there's

other creatives doing it for professional purposes out there. And so we came across you guys and really liked the content, filled out the contact form. And here we are. It's come full circle. Amazing. Hopefully, hopefully more and more creatives in different states even start reaching out like like yourselves. You know, we'll make our job easier to please do my job for me next time. There's 50 states I got get through well yeah and it's just like hey reach out like we're like the worst they can say is no like we don't want any southern

accents on this show so you can't be in but you talked to someone from i think it was like north carolina so i'm like hey we're just two states away gotta represent the south nice gotta get that that y'all in. Because, you know, Atlanta is getting a lot bigger in the film scene. In fact, they now have an official name for Atlanta that I don't know if you've heard. So out West, you have Hollywood. But here in Atlanta, it's Yollywood. Yollywood.

That's so good. Yep. You mentioned you're a big Marvel fan that's good for you because don't they shoot a ton of them over there? Oh yeah, in fact where I live, if I walked a mile straight through the woods I could go hang out

with Spider-Man or go see the Guardians of the Galaxy Originally it was Pinewood Studios and then they changed the name to Trillith which, strangest name I was like changed the name to Trillith, which, strangest name. I was like, what's a Trillith? Like, that sounds like something that I would put on, like, a high T. So an infinity stone.

Well, it does sound maybe like an infinity stone, but it turns out it's a three-stone structure. So everyone's probably heard of a monolith. Well, a Trillith is three stones. And there's your English lesson for the day. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your company? Like how did you start it? Like brief history. Yeah.

Well, Maleshko actually started out as Tom Maleshko Photography back in 1986. as Tom Miloszko Photography back in 1986. So he was the son of the son of an immigrant who came over here from Belarus. So there's that Eastern European connection for you. And his father had done photography. He tried to do some sales after he'd gotten out of serving in the army and was like, ah, this isn't for me.

You know what? My dad seems to enjoy taking photos. Let me see if I can do this professionally. And he started just taking pictures of anything that moved. I mean, we've all been that freelancer that you're like, wait, you'll pay me to do this thing. Sure. I'll do it. You know, whether it's, I'll take a picture of a pop tart or sure. I'll shoot your wedding for 200 bucks. Like I just want to make money doing this. Um, but he, for after 30 years, he had built up a fairly successful photography business. And then right around 2011, he started having more and more clients ask, Hey, I heard you can just kind of switch the mode on your,

your DSLR and it can shoot video. Do you shoot video? And he didn't at the time. I mean, his background was photography. And so I was a fresh young pup out of film school that he had met on a random set and been like, Hey, you want to help me try to like break into video? I heard there's a setting on the camera that if you just switch it, it shoots video. And, you know, part of the artist inside of me who had been, you know, shooting on cinema level cameras died a little bit. But I was like, sure, I would love to help get video started because now I was that freelancer who wanted to help shoot anything that moved. And 10 years later, we went from a team of two to now a team of 20. And we now do a majority of video instead of photo.

So the tables have turned to where, like when I started, video was like 3% of the overall business. And now video makes up 70% of our business. And then photo only makes up 15. And then the rest of it's graphic design and animation. So that's a drive-through version of how Maleshko became Maleshko.

Nice. So how did you see that growing trend? No, I was going to ask the same question. So go ahead. Okay. Just so we have a clean question for the recording. It's like, how did you see that growing trend switch from a photo to video? What do you think was the driving factor in that for you guys? Listening to our clients, any innovation that we've done at Maleshco throughout our history, I mean, up to and including having graphic design as one of our offerings is, hey, what do you need? What do you need us to be able to provide for you? And Tom was just listening to clients that he had served with just photo for you. And Tom was just listening to clients that he had served

with just photo for years. And then they just started asking, Hey, we already trust you as a photographer. If you did video, we would love to use you as well. So we were, we were kind of like that plumber that was really good at plumbing and then was asked, Hey, do you do electrical as well? Because you know, you're here in the bathroom and I need new lights. And we're like, we will learn it so that we can be your one-stop shop. But it just so happened that we then became really good at video. And now here we are, we're majority video. But I mean, ultimately it was just active listening, finding out from your client. And at the same time, you also kind of saw in the industry as things were moving to, I mean, back then it was DSLRs, but now, you know, you've got mirrorless, you've got

these cameras that can shoot both really well. So if you're at a corporate event and they need both photos and a highlight video, you can kind of use the same camera bodies to switch back and forth. So we kind of saw, huh, there's more hybridization than specialization. But, and it depends on where in the industry you are. We primarily serve corporate clients. And so we just found from corporate, they're more interested in a one-stop shop

rather than, oh, we're going to call in a specialist to do just this thing. Did you find that your growth from the last 10 years, like was it like a incremental growth or was it a lot of exponential growth? Because you went from like two people to 20. That's a pretty big. Right.

It's like two people a year, essentially, you guys grew to. Two people every year kept joining your team. And we did not grow like that way at all. Our growth was very more exponential. So, I mean, it really is. And I'm sure so many people that own smaller production companies feel this way is like you're putting in all these reps, you're doing all

this work and you're not seeing the returns. And then there's just this critical mass of all of that work you did the years prior suddenly pay off. And now you're getting to enjoy that harvest because actually, you know, like I said, we started out as a team of two and now we're a team of 20. harvest because actually, you know, like I said, we started out as a team of two and now we're a team of 20. Even last year, we were a team of eight. And then in 2022, we doubled in size. And then we've hired four people this year with most likely another two or three that'll probably come on the bus by the end of the year. So for us, it really was exponential to where all these seeds that we had sown with clients and, and honestly helping training them year. So for us, it really was exponential to where all these seeds that we had sown with clients and, and honestly helping training them to know that, Hey, you've known us

for years as photo. Did you know we're offering video? In fact, back in 2019, I made the joke. We needed that as a t-shirt is, did you know we do video? Cause so much of the client relationship is trust. Like they, they trust you and they come to you because, oh, that's my photo guy or that's my fill in the blank service guy. So there's a lot of education that comes with your clients. Like, did you know we also offer this?

And so I felt like in 2019, we were building up steam. The world took a nice little brain break during COVID. And then 2021, again, we kind of picked up the momentum. And 2022, it was just critical mass. And we got business to wazoo and had to hire team members accordingly. So for us, it was very exponential.

It was not incremental at all. But was there a big conversion from the photography client base, switching them over into like the video services? Or was it that you guys have also a lot of like new leads coming in that you were closing? Now, a lot of it was converting folks that had just known us for photography into video. And you could almost, I've never made a graph. I'm a huge Excel spreadsheets and graphs guy. So I really do need to make this. But as you saw social media moving from more photo static image base to video and reels, and all right, now you've got people making vines, no rip vines. And you dated yourself a second. I know. Uh, but, but everything was trending more toward video.

And so, you know, Hey, we listen to our clients, but also we let them know, hey, I know you've been using us for photo. I know photo has been kind of the gold standard for putting in your newsletter and the email that you're sending out to your folks or posting it for training content. Video is now the way people communicate. Did you know? Great news. We offer that. Can we continue to help you in this way? So a lot of it was converting our photo only clients into video clients. You must have had very good relationships with your clients to be able to convert them

to a completely different service that they either may not have thought about or were very open to hearing what value would provide for them, you know, or at least that they would be willing to do it. Not a lot of, especially corporate clients sometimes are not always willing to do that from other perspectives or outside opinions. Like usually they all have their own marketing goals and strategies that they need to do. It's like, and it's like they hire you for one video, right? And then even though, you know, they need maybe even sometimes two or three other videos, they're not always going to be wanting to do that at that moment. Right. So it's just a kudos to show what kind of good relationships you have with your, with your current existing client base.

Well, and, and I mean, you hit the nail on the head is that oftentimes you have to have that trust before they're even willing to listen to your suggestion. Because so often by the time as a media vendor, a client is coming to you, they already have a pre-baked ask. Like they know this is exactly what I need. I just need you to execute it. So, you know, no, I don't want your suggestions. Just can you meet this date and do it this way? Please and thank you and make sure you don't go over budget. Whereas one of the reasons I think our growth was exponential and not incremental was trust

doesn't move at a linear fashion because, okay, they came to you for that first project. Okay, they did well. They come to you for that second one, that third. And then by that fourth one, they may go, Hey, you've done so well on these three. What, how would you approach this next project? And I'll take that to my boss. And now it's a consultative partnership, not just all right, monkey with a camera execute. No, a hundred percent. And how would you, uh, what would you say is kind of like your process of going about like throwing those ideas at your clients? Like how do you kind of feel out what they might need or if they're open to kind of listening to some of those ideas?

Well, I'd say the first thing you have to focus on is just delivering a consistent service experience over and over again. Because until they trust that, oh, wow, they are going to follow up on their word, they're going to execute to how we ask them to, then you almost earn your right to have that conversation to, hey, you know, you asked us to do this talking head video that's six minutes long. That's an option. do this talking head video that's six minutes long, that's an option. Or have you considered that perhaps we could make you a 90 second video that involves a little bit of animation, a little bit of action, and then maybe have the spokesperson come in for just 30 seconds.

Perhaps that would be a more engaging video for you. So you almost have to make that, hey, just execute on what they asked for the first couple times. And then once the trust is established, then you start creatively suggesting as a way of making them win. Because that's what you have to – if they're going to get that buy-in, you have to convince them, hey, here's how you win. Because when someone comes to you with a video, they're ultimately trying to accomplish a goal of, hey, it's not just we need you to make this instructional video. It's we've got an employee base and they're not following this procedure and we need to have them gain buy-in. Okay, so that's your ultimate goal. Well, as the communication experts, may we suggest that, hey, you thought a six-minute video with a talking head.

That's a method. But here's one that we think would be a better fit to help you accomplish your goal. Have you guys had success with retainer models? So to be honest, retainers are something that we are still trying to figure out what is the best method to make sure that both parties win. Because we found that oftentimes we were the ones that are taking the risk by moving into a retainer model because we don't know like, all right, are we going to make a number of like creative hours that they're pre-buying? Or, okay, we could say, all right, we'll be on retainer to do X amount of videos. But then the client comes and makes a ask that's completely out of your original scope. And now

you're spinning your tires trying to renegotiate. Well, when we came up with the retainer seven months ago, this is what we thought it was going to be. And now we're having to renegotiate in the middle of it. So not saying that a retainer can't work. I mean, we are always trying to chat with businesses that work on that method and be like, so how are you doing this? We have not found a way to make it mutually beneficial. We have found that, all right, if we enter into a retainer, wow,

they just got a deal on their money because now they pre-bought so far in advance that we're not accounting for inflation or they may have a different person who's running the helm six months from now. So we just have not found that to be advantageous. But I'm also not going to say the model can't work depending on what industry and what client you're serving. You know, what's funny is that sometimes when we think of retainers, it's like in theory, it sounds like the perfect kind of setup where you get guaranteed work and everybody wins.

But you just laid out three or four different reasons why it would not work long term, right? The inflation angle alone. I was like, no one's ever thought about that. I didn't think of that one. Yeah, I didn't think of that one. Right. Well, I was having a conversation with one of my producers the other day. And like on paper, this retainer that a client was asking us to get into would make sense because, yeah, you're like, oh, sweet. I can bet on this cash flow, which takes a huge burden off of your mental bandwidth.

And oh, yeah, like this is a very easily replicatable kind of shoot that we do over and over again. But oh, yeah, 12 months from now, is that same project going to cost the same for me and the photographer that I'm going to send out to do that thing? Is it going to cost the same? No, it's probably going to be 10% more expensive for me if inflation continues on the same curve. The client just got a steal. So it's figuring out how can it be mutually beneficial. And we haven't cracked

that code yet. Think of it like this. You know, when you're when you're doing the like, say you do a pre buying of like, say, 100 hours of video work, you have to give them also a deal. So you're going to give them a 10% deal off what that rate is there. Then after a year with the inflation or like also all the raises that the employees are going to get, like say everybody gets a 10% raise. That's a 20% difference in it that you're going to be bleeding over the course of a year. So that's the profit margin. That's the profit margin. And something, something that was kind of a breakthrough for us was realizing,

all right, we're, we're creatives. We're, we're in the creative industry. And you're like, well, really we're, we're in the service industry. Like that, that is ultimately what we're providing because we are brought with a challenge or a problem. And then we provide a service and you see precedent in different service industries or, or in utilities. Like if I try to sign a three-year contract with my gas utility company, they will literally charge me more per therm than if I sign up for a six month contract with them because they know that they are taking risk and they're probably going to have to absorb some increased cost if I sign up for a longer contract.

I feel like we run into the same thing service industry wise when it comes to what we're charging creatively for retainer. So when y'all have cracked that code call us up here at Maleshco because I would love to have a conversation because you know what the like 50 episodes in we've only had I think two maybe three guests come on that say yeah they've either are doing it and it's work I think one person uh the North North Carolina uh Adam from Digital Sparks, I think is the name. Yeah, right.

Yeah, who owned the studio as well that they rented out. I was like, oh, perfect. Yeah, he's the one that has had pretty good success with it. I think the other person that's mentioned that said they had some success with it. So out of 50 episodes, only two people said they've tried it i think it's all with them i think it only works if it really depends on the situation like um if you have such a huge team of people that you have to work with and then the contract model comes in it would have to be one a very juicy contract or two like say you have two retainer contracts then you have a

lot of one-offs where you make uh more money with to kind of supplement the losses that you would have from that retainer model. But maybe what you said was exactly the right way to do it. You tell the client this is the kind of model we'll do of like six-month contracts rather than one-year, two-year, three-year, where it's a short enough period of time where you can test certain things out and then you can change it. You know, for example, they did certain types of videos which worked for them there. Then they're not locked into doing the same kind of content for content for another year, because also in our landscape now, content is constantly changing. You know, viewership is changing, you know, and people need to adjust their marketing strategies and their video content strategy so maybe that's another way to start pitching it to

clients where instead of saying like look we don't want to do a retainer for a year we want to do a three to six month doing only this type of content this is how much it'll cost and then after that let's see what worked and then let's shift it over like that that might actually even be more no it doesn't make sense when it's it doesn't make sense when it's that short, because think about how much time there is in between projects anyway. So it's back, back to the same old formula. Yeah, exactly. It's like a full circle thing. It's like, and that's why we have found the few retainers that we do have. It is so situational. And the only times that we've really found it to work is if it's a

very frequent shoot, like something that's happening every week or multiple times a week. And it's very templates, templatizable. I'm just, there we go. There we go. Templatizable. I like that word. Shakespeare just invented words. Why can't we do that now? But something that can follow a preset template. So I can add any member of my team to fill that role versus, oh gosh, well, I got to send Gary because Gary's the only person who knows how to do this. Because that's the other thing is unless what you're signing up for has, like you said, a juicy profit margin or it's a juicy contract. Wow. Not just what are you saying yes up for has, like you said, a juicy profit margin or it's a juicy contract.

Wow. Guess not just what are you saying yes to for the next six months, but you are now having to tell anything else no for that same time period. And what if something else comes in that is a higher profit margin or something that you want to do? So anyway, I am sure the people out there that are doing retainer models well or having like that subscription type service my hat my creative hat is off to you because we we haven't uh quite cracked that but but it brings up a question for me because i know y'all have up see there's a southern coming out i i know i know y'all are in ewan's territory, right? That's not a Canadian thing. Ewan's? Ewan's? What's that? I think that's an American Midwest thing.

All right. But you guys, you guys, I mean, it's still just the two of y'all, right? Yeah. Yeah. Two of us, yeah. So, I mean, in my mind, it might be easier for someone with your makeup of a company to enter into a retainer model because you can contract out whenever you need shooters or like an audio tech. So you almost could scale up and down. So why have y'all not done a retainer model?

So why have y'all not done a retainer model? We just haven't found the client that was, to be honest with you, we just haven't found the correct pitch or proposal for it just yet. Like our client roster has been changing a lot lately. Like there's clients come in, clients go out, tides go in, tides go out type of situation. We do have one client, which I guess we do have a retainer module it's a it's a it's a retainer but it's not being called a retainer so in a way we do kind of have that like we basically at the beginning of the year made a it's it's um quarterly report videos and then one big conference video that they have at the end of the year so we basically in january set up all right so these are the four

quarters that you're going to do here are the days that you want to aim for it let's book everything in i mean yeah darry i guess that's technically our first is it though is it though i think retainer's a little different retainer's more like there's a pot right and it's like you just take from the pot whenever you need it right that's kind of like what i think of it's like because you always hear it's like oh they got a law pot whenever you need it, right? That's kind of like what I think of. It's like because you always hear it's like, oh, they got a law firm on retainer. It kind of means whenever they need their services, they just go to it. These guys are just like they booked us for these projects essentially. Do you know what I mean?

But that's also kind of – I don't know. Yeah, I mean if by retainer you mean that, okay, you are pre-booking my time for 12 months out. Okay, I don't know if that's a retainer because you know exactly what you're shooting. So in a way, that's a reservation. Like a restaurant doesn't say, oh, would you like to be on retainer this evening at 6 p.m.? No, you make a reservation on my time. Whereas retainer is, hey, I don't even know when we're going to use you. I just know I want to use you.

Can I pay for the right of your creative priority? Because that's essentially what you're doing with a retainer, right? You're saying, all right, even if something else comes to the door, you are paying for the right to my creative priority whenever you call me. So essentially, this is a retainer versus reservation kind of uh need with clients and i think what a lot of creatives when they're asking when they're saying man i want a retainer client i want more retainers it's like i think you they mean they want more reservations that are many months out right because they want to be able to maybe that's what it is yeah exactly exactly

and because then you know what the project is right right? Because with a retainer, you won't know what the project is until they come with the need, right? And inevitably, go ahead. No, no, go, go, go for it. Go for it. is if I can't plan my calendar out, then how do I prevent all of my retainer clients coming to me at once? Which we've already experienced a couple of times to where like, okay, we were on a retainer. They don't talk to us for eight months. And then all of a sudden in Q4, they go,

oh, we want to use up all of our money in Q4. And you're like, well, that made sense if you had spread it out over the course of a year. But all of that in one quarter, that's a lot. And so unless you have really clear guardrails of like, hey, you have to use X amount, like basically you use it or you lose it, which to me, that's the only way for a retainer to win as the vendor. But, you know, as a client, are you gonna accept that? Kind of like a gym membership. Like, all right, well.

The only way I see that working is, I think Adam mentioned this, he'll go to them every quarter and propose different projects they could do. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's about having any discount. Yeah, because it's like it's quarter one and it's like, we gotta,

this is what we think you guys should do. And this is the budget we have based on the retainer. I guess in that, that would be the solution for that, no? There would have to be clear communication with the client going forward. You can't just sign them on a retainer and then like no communication for seven, eight months. And then all of a sudden it comes in because I guess that is the scary thing about retainers. It's like, say, for example, you have three other projects that are about to happen this week and then all of a sudden your client says we need you to come in this week to film this massive

project that just that we need to do next week it's like but you're coming to us last second when we already have this entire week booked it's like yeah well i signed a retainer that could cause some kind of uh problems or like as you, all the retainers show up at once. And I guess you have to like figure out those kind of safeguards. I think clear communication consistently, like every two weeks, every month, at least talk with the client and see what's happening. That way you can kind of gauge what's going to be coming in that month, what you can plan for.

But yeah, like, I don't know. I mean, we, we don't have that. We don't have a retainer client, so I don't, who knows if this will actually work, but you know, I think I'm, I'm for the idea of let's get more reservations down the year, you know, let's do that. Oh, I know for me, I would love to have reserve, you know, reserve time a year out, but yeah, not at a retainer. Cause then I know exactly when it's going to hit and I can look back at an SOW and said, well, you said the dates were going to be here. Uh, which a question I have for y'all, because this is something that is a, a current pain point for us. And I would love to get another

creative take on it is speaking of a reservation is how have you handled if a client has communicated, hey, our editing time is going to be like these three weeks, like, hey, this is our delivery date. But then they come to you and go, oh, hey, we've had some delays on our end. Push it back another two weeks. All right, there were some delays on like this SME is traveling to Nigeria and won't be back for two weeks, but we have to get their input, delayed another two weeks. Well, now you've got this project that's sitting in post

that keeps getting kicked down the lane, down the lane. And inevitably, you're gonna have your editing team working on something else. And then that client comes back and goes, oh, we're going to have your editing team working on something else. And then that client comes back and goes, oh, we're ready to be finished now. Yeah. Dealing with that right now, actually. Yeah.

Two different projects. One of them is worrying me a little bit because it's an animation project. And our animator, luckily, is free. But it was supposed to be done by August 1st. And we still haven't started on it because like the script keeps getting delayed um taking their time you know then i like i guess with the i mean i don't know you really can't you know what this is why you put those dates in the contract so that if something ever happens you just kind of go you're gonna have to wait Because you pushed it down the road, you're going to have to wait.

It's like, we'll still do it for you. But that's one thing that we do is we make sure we keep the dates and the deadlines in the contract so that we all know what to expect from each other and what is expected from each party. And then if there is delays on one side, because it happens. Like at the end of the day, you know... But we haven't had an issue. But Kirill, in all fairness, we haven't had a situation where it did get to like a conflict

point because we've been pretty lucky we've been lucky so far i'm sure it'll happen eventually at some point but again that's why that's why in the contract i always put the dates because that's always my like safety if they like something happens like look you guys signed the contract it is what it is type of thing and then one thing we do as well is like i break up our invoices for for the total project into three so i'll do project management fees and pre-production as the first invoice production as a second and post as a third and actually one interesting thing i've noticed lately is that because i send them all after they sign the contract they then send them to the accounting team and i noticed that the accounting team doesn't pay them like at their intervals they'll usually just pay them all at once so we actually we actually get our post money at the same time we're getting paid for the rest of it right

because usually close to close to the production i'm like hey we gotta like the money hasn't come in yet so then they like bug accounting and then i notice it's like oh the whole project's paid for that's good like the animation we're working on now like they pay for the whole thing so it's delayed which sucks but it's like we got paid for it so i'm literally just waiting on them so i'm a little more relaxed on that end right um yeah but also i tell them it's like look it's still gonna take like four weeks like they were like we were chatting yesterday and they're like oh what do you think the updated timeline is i was like it's still four weeks from when i get the script so like if i get the script if i get the script tomorrow it's gonna be four weeks from tomorrow the project

is gonna be complete if i get next week it's four weeks from next week that i get because again like it's it's that's what that's how long our editor or animator will take so like we told you guys this going into it like i guess just the communication aspect needs to be very the communication needs to be very clear with them letting them know how long it's going to take it's like if you hire someone to build you a house and you wait till last second to give them the money to buy the supplies, the guy's still going to tell you, well, it's going to take this much time

because the carpenter takes this much time. So shipping time, right? I'm not a magician, you know, I can't work magic. I think one thing that has been very fortunate for us where there hasn't been conflict on that side is because we have communicated all that stuff prior, talked about it in the contract, about it in uh in pre-production that they know that if there are any delays on on when we get certain things they understand it's like oh it's because of me

that uh that things are delayed and now we understand that this is you know like been delayed because of this no problem you. If you didn't communicate that, that's where I can see more confidence coming. No, but Kiril, the thing is we are smaller, so we can kind of get away with it. But because we're using freelancer editors, that's the part that makes me nervous at times because what if that particular editor...

They're suddenly not available, right? They're not available, right? That's the part that worries me, which I think we'll have to communicate uh what would happen in that situation to the client and then let them know it's like in that situation then because we got to bring on another another oh that's a tricky situation oh my god i don't know actually what the solution for that that might be a big problem for us eh going forward because then it's like if we got to bring in another editor it's gonna cost us a bit it's up the, the account, the post-production profit.

Yeah. Well, this is why it's key. That that's why it's been such a sticking point for us. Cause, cause we have that verbiage in our contracts. Like, Hey, this is the delivery date. We even started including things like, Hey, if the, after 14 days after the final delivery date, we can no longer guarantee availability, basically saying like, Hey, here's some buffer. Cause we know, cause we know life happens, but it's one thing to have it in the contract. And then it's another thing to have a conversation with a client of like, Hey, here's why we can't deliver your video. Even if it's fully on them, like they, they didn't meet deadlines. They didn't, they took forever to get back with you. Like, it's just a hard conversation to have with someone of like, Hey, here's why we're not going to complete your video. And,

and the, the customer service side of me is just, Oh, I wish, I wish there was a mechanism that I, instead of just like, you done messed up, A.A. Ron. Like how instead – because you can't just throw money at it and go, okay, well, if you're going to continue to reserve our editing booth time – because we even consider that for a while. It's like, well, what if it's just you are making a reservation in our edit booth and if you extend that reservation, it's going to cost more. Just like if you were at a hotel, right? Like if, hey, I know life happened. Your flight got delayed and I'm going to extend my reservation by two days. All right. Well, that'll be X amount of dollars.

But it's like, ooh, does that feel right? What's your revision process like? Because we have like a three-step process for that. So it's rough cut, fine cut. And then after the fine cut, they get the final cut. And that's it. The project's considered complete at that point. Do you guys have something similar for that? Yeah. Most of the time we say we believe in delivering versions, not drafts. So kind of counter to what you'd see in the film world. We're baking in the color correction and a lot of the graphics in the very first cut that the client

sees. Because what we find in the corporate world is since we're not delivering to a fellow creative, they can't see past any imperfections. So like as a creative, you show me a daily, I will know, okay, this is the raw stuff. So I'm not going to critique the color or lack of graphics. Like I'm just looking for content, but in the corporate world, they just know, all right, is it completely there or it's not? Um, so that's why we kind of moved to, all right, you get a V one, so a version one. And then, uh, usually after that, it's the final, like we usually try to keep it to just one round of revisions. Oh, so one round.

Oh, that's good. Our huge mantra, and we have this as stickers on our laptop, anywhere that we can put a sticker on a piece of equipment is fix it in pre. So with a lot of our corporate clients, like they should know exactly the video they're getting before we shoot the first shot because we're talking, all right, the script, did that get approved by Susan in accounting? Did that get approved by Greg in HR? Is there any other thing about this script or this AV?

Because we'll have the script and then the shots that will accompany the scripting so that no one is surprised. the scripting so that no one is surprised. And we have found that doing that and then having that version one be a live review. So before, and I'm sure many other folks have done this, you know, we send the link out via frame IO or Dropbox replay or, you know, insert service that you use for people to review the video. But we would spend so much time reconciling client feedback because Sharon would say, I love the font choice, but then Bill would say, I hate the font choice. Well, if they are both on the same pecking order, which comment do you take? Oh, we, yeah, we, we figured out a solution for that. Cause we were getting,

we, we were having, and that happened on frame and we we always we let them know it's like look one person needs to like if a thread a reply thread starts one person needs to make the final call on that thing that was like our solution who has the authority kind of deal like one person so if there's two people one of them has to make the final call on it because we ran into the exact same problem well the only thing that's annoying i was just going to say the only thing that's annoying i was just going to say the only thing that's annoying about once a thread happens is that say like your point of contact goes through all the notes and then the other people start going through all the notes

when when do we know that everyone has gone through it has that person been able oh no they let us know carol no no carol they let us know so i always tell them it's like okay the 48 to 72 hours let us know and then we can start on it so i wait for them oh yeah yeah yeah i wait for our contact to say okay we went through it you can go ahead even it but like you've we've never yeah we never really had we've always had someone already like answer those questions in the thread always otherwise i call them up and i say okay what do i do about this note? And again, the writer doesn't start on – or I guess he starts on it and just waits to send us the revised version. And that is exactly why we moved to doing live version one reviews. So this is something that we establish at the very beginning of the project is we'll say, hey, pick a date on the calendar.

We'll set an hour-long meeting, and you get every SME that is involved in deciding this video. We're going to get them on this call and we're all going to watch the video together. And we actually found that not only does that reduce that back and forth of like, you know, rabbit season, duck season with clients, but actually reduced the amount of overall comments. Because especially if I can be there as the creative expert to where they'll be like, oh, we really don't like the edit here. If I'm there to go, well, we have to have this edit because the spokesperson blubbed

their line. So we're having to cut to this B roll because we can't show them like being able to, you know, you never want to tell them, no, I won't do that. You're wrong. But if you can provide at least some creative justification for why something's there, most of the time they go, oh, okay, that makes sense. You know, retract my comment. And so we found that- I type in that comment on frame. I'll go like, oh, we tried it. The take wasn't good. Oh yeah. Or like there is no alternative. Like, oh, we don't like this delivery. We're like,

believe it or not, this was the best one. The best one. Yeah. So isn't that a problem? Sorry, I was going to say, isn't that like, isn't it hard, though, to like organize a time where they'll all be there? Because I'm sure one of them is always going to be missing and they're always going to say, oh, we do need to get things input. put? Not, not if you do it far enough in advance, because most of the time from us having that, that pre-production meeting to shooting is usually about a month. And then by the time we would be having that version one review is almost another month. So, I mean, there's usually two months within that time. We, we, we put the onus on them. We say, Hey, you find a time when all of the people can be in this one hour period. And most of the time they can figure it out.

Now, I will say there are times when like one person isn't able to be there, in which case you just account for, all right, we'll get as many comments as possible. And then we'll make sure that we send it off to Bartholomew, who's on vacation this week. But most of the time with heads up, at least with corporate clients,

I mean, people exist on their calendar. Like they'll know what they're doing in two months and they can find that one hour window. And when we tell them that it's going to save them budget because they can keep it to one revision round versus two or three, then we get their attention and they are a lot more apt to find that one hour. Do you guys still offer like the standard method though? Cause I'm sure like sometimes they're like, there's sometimes where they're just not interested in that or like, ah, we don't want to do a live review.

So we're like, all right, it'll be asynchronous and we'll add a couple more hours of editing. Cause we know that there'll be revisions. So, so we tell them like, Hey, this is going to be a value add to you.

Cause it'll actually reduce the amount of overall editing time. And sometimes they opt for that. Cause just cause they're like, hey, this is going to be a value add to you because it'll actually reduce the amount of overall editing time. And sometimes they opt for that just because they're like, ah, there's no way we'll ever get this many people in the room. Let's just do it asynchronous. And we go, all right. I feel like after four people, it gets even exponentially harder to get people's schedules together. even exponentially harder to get people's schedules together. There's sometimes even times where Dario and I are like, can we even get ourselves in the same meeting when it's a really high busy season, right? And we do clarify with folks that we're not asking for all the people who need to approve this video. It's all the people who need to speak into this video because we don't necessarily need your boss in the room to

approve the V1 because you know what is needed as our direct client contact. If the video is on safety, yes, make sure that your director of safety is there. But we just need people who can make constructive criticism into what might need to be changed. And then you can send it for that final approval. But most of the time, if we've done our due diligence on that V1, it's approved nine times out of 10. I was going to say though, like if you don't bring them in for that V1, the people that ultimately approve it, like say the VP of marketing, what if you've gone through all those rounds and then at the final bit, when they show it, it's like, eh, I don't like it like this here. Let's change everything.

Then what? Well, and I will say that that is the risky run. I have not encountered that yet. I've encountered once or twice where there was like one extra line or like one thing that we would have to omit. But as long as you've got the SMEs that know the content that were there for the V1, most of the time, by the time it gets up, especially if they hear, oh, well, Susan approved it, who was the security supervisor. I mean, their boss's boss is so busy that they just need to know, is the video going

to get anyone in trouble? And is this what we allotted budget for? And so if you can for? And so like, if you can add that context to like, Hey, this video has been reviewed. It's been approved by these people just wanted to run by this by you for like final. Okay. Usually unless there's just something so egregious, but I, I can only think of one instance where there was like, Oh, we'll just remove this one graphic at the end, you know, tweak it to a, you know, oh, send them to this site instead. So it's been fairly easy. But we saw a major difference ever since we started implementing a live V1 in the amount of revisions

we get, reduced it significantly. Yeah, ever since we started focusing a lot on our pre-production process, we have noticed that the revision process has become more of like like even if there are a lot of notes it's more like technical stuff it's not really major story changes versus before before we ran into a lot of like oh no we have to do like some major restructuring of the story but yeah like we're very we communicate very well with our clients now especially in pre-production and we let them know it's like okay like we need to get final approval with this and then i always stress with them the fact that if we move forward and we don't have everything green lit it's going to cost more and i let them know it's like it's not it's not even me it's more so my editor is going to

charge me more and i got to charge you more otherwise like because if i run out of money what do i do? Right. So that's and they're always pretty they've been pretty good on that. And like to the point where if if we just if there's a if maybe like something got delayed, they haven't gotten approval or whatever. They've been cool with pushing the production date. That's that's been a conversation where they're like, OK, let's just push the date because we got it. We can't can't go forward with it. And we're like, all right, let's do it. It's better to be safe than sorry.

I mean, the age-old adage of a stitch in time saves nine. I will say on client calls, often an ounce of pre-production is worth a pound of post-production. So yes, the reason why I want to do one more script review with you is because this one 15-minute sync could save us six hours in post-production trying to make up for a mistake that we missed. And so it will ultimately save you time and save you money. Zach, I'm amazed at all the different sayings and metaphors that you have as business mantras Like you could make a whole line of video production t-shirts based on this. He has them written on the wall behind the camera. Oh yeah. Exactly. Like if I can get more clients to abide by this, I mean, that's why like you have to practice what you preach. And so for me, when I'm with a client, it's, hey, this is not just a fun bumper sticker I want you to put on your car.

This is going to save you and your team time, which will ultimately save you money and make for a better video, quite frankly, as well. So I mean, we're ultimately communicators as creatives. And so I collect these sayings as, oh, wow, that that's a great shortcut to an idea that might normally take me like two minutes to convey. So like fix it in pre, uh, I love that saying. Cause it, it communicates not only that I value your time as a client so much that I don't want to waste it in post. Um, so that, and maybe it's a Southern thing too. We just like our old sayings here in the South. An ounce of pre.

That was a good one. Speaking of the South, just out of curiosity for us, what's the industry like in Atlanta? Oh, such a small world. It's neat because it's still relatively new to the movie-making industry. I mean, Georgia's had tax relatively new to the, like the movie making industry. I mean, Georgia's had tax credit for a while, but you know, again, talking about exponential growth, I kind of feel like it hit this critical mass in the like 2012, 23rd. Well, honestly, it was walking dead. I mean, once walking dead was shot here, I feel like everyone just made this mass migration and now we have Yollywood as we call it.

But what I love about it is while there's so much more infrastructure here now, for a time, the amount of available crew was relatively small. So you'd have like Greg running audio working on seven different productions because there wasn't a whole lot of – you know, unlike New York or LA where it's all right, take your pick. You've got dozens of choices. You'd have folks here that's like, all right, that you've only got maybe like single digit options to run that kind of play. It's changed now in a lot of productions. Well, it's because of the tax credits, it's still cheaper for them to like fly their people in for the production and then fly them back. Uh, but you, that having been said, I noticed that a lot more Georgia based universities are really amping up their film program as a way of having more Georgia based crew available. And that's been neat to see, but it's still a relatively

small world. So you never want to, I mean,, it's a good practice for life never to burn a bridge. But I'd say especially in the Atlanta market, like don't be a jerk on set. Word will travel fast and you may not get that second phone call. But I love it. You've got all the southern hospitality combined with that creative drive. Yollywood is where I want to stay. So I was that guy who went to film school and was like, I'm going to go out to LA

and make it big. And then just realized, no, I actually kind of like the more laid back setting here. And that's why I'm still here operating. And then it came to me. So I was like, perfect. Everyone and their mother wanted to go to LA.

And that is why it is so difficult for a lot of people to make it there. And honestly, within your own smaller networks, if you can, if you start, that's how you get noticed in smaller areas before you make it in bigger areas. Right. Well, and, and for me, it was also just what I wanted to do with my life. Cause, uh, I like to joke sometimes that Milushko is a, a creative recovery program because we have so many folks who wanted to go do the LA or New York thing. They worked sets, they worked those 26 hour days, uh, and, uh, then realized, huh, okay, maybe, maybe this isn't the life that I want. Cause you know, I want to have

a family. I want to be involved with different hobbies and different missions I want to serve in. And so I can't commit 26 hours a day to this, this film thing out in LA. And so what we found is with corporate video in particular, I get to be home at five 30 with my kids because most corporate things are going to be done around five o'clock. So I joke with people that, uh, I make the greatest videos that you'll never see because it's, it's training, it's internal communications. It's, it's things that like, if you work for that company, you'll see a lot of, but you'll never go on YouTube and see the kind of videos that I'm creating. But for me, I'm still getting to use my creative talents while still being able to have a work-life balance that allows me to be a husband and a father and all the other things

that are also important in my life. I used to joke that we make videos that you can't skip. Ah, so. Because, you know, there's a five, four, three, two, one. Before you can skip the ad. I was curious also about, like, the types of industries that are big in Atlanta. I mean, a lot is food industry. Southerners like our food. Atlanta is also a huge distribution point. I mean, it's all the way back to railroads. I mean,

all roads lead to Rome and I'm pretty sure every train and flight connects through Atlanta. I mean, if you've ever done any sort of traveling, you've probably done a connection through Atlanta airport at some point. We did, Daria, when we went to Houston, remember? Yep, that tracks. That tracks. I mean, people don't think of Atlanta, but I mean, Hartsfield-Jackson is the busiest airport in the U.S. Not the biggest, but the busiest. Wow. And it's because when you think of, you know, you were talking earlier before we started recording about geography lesson. I mean, Atlanta is like the hub of the Southeast when you look at metropolitan areas.

So there's a lot of shipping here. I mean, I feel like there's another Amazon distribution center opening up every other day around here. So a lot of shipping and as such manufacturing as well, because man, if you can manufacture where your shipping is, then huge win as a company. If you can manufacture where your shipping is, then huge win as a company. But I'd say probably food, a lot of finance in the Buckhead area of Atlanta, to name a few. But I'd say mostly shipping distribution if I had to pick a biggest.

Very interesting. Kiril, do you have any other questions before we end off? I had one other one, but it slipped my mind after you asked that previous one. Uh, yeah, I guess we already, I, I, I just remembered. Uh, yeah. One thing that a lot of people don't think about, think about, or plan about when they jump into this industry is the work-life balance aspect and planning for that down the road.

Everyone knows that they want to just jump into it, shoot as much as they can, burn themselves out. A lot of people do that to the point where a lot of people don't have personal lives or family lives at that point. And then after being in the industry for so long, you don't know how to get out of that or incorporate the work-life balance thing. So I think that's one thing that a lot of creatives who are a lot of people who are getting into the industry need to think about what they want to have down the road if they want to work life balance if they want to build families then they they need to they need to plan for that if you can't do that uh if you're doing like you said 24 hour work days uh three four times a week, you'll never see your family.

Your family is not going to be happy about that. So that's just one thing that a lot of people need to think about as well. Right. And I was jokingly saying 26 hours a day. So please don't make that a reflection on Georgian's like, oh, he thinks there's 26 hours in a day. But a lot of us that were here at Maleshko, funnily enough, documentaries speak to us here because myself and at least three other members of the team actually had a big turning point in our lives because of a documentary that we saw. And for me, it was a documentary on Roger

Deakins' life. So if I had a hero in film school, it was Roger Deakins. I think that man shoots gold, his ability to light a scene and use light as a storytelling mechanism is just unparalleled. But I was watching a documentary and it started talking about his family life and it did not match his technical prowess. I was like, Oh wow, that isn't the life I want to live. And that's when I realized, well, man, I want to be able to use these creative talents, but is there a way that I can use them and still achieve that work-life balance? And part of it was realizing, all right, I got to get out of editing because when you're a solopreneur in the creative, I mean, you're doing everything. I mean, my life

when I was starting out was, all right, I'm either talking with clients in the morning or shooting something. I come home and edit somewhere in between that I will sleep and go to the bathroom and then wash, rinse, repeat. And so the, the reason why I think creatives need to find that team is I work in your, your skillset and your strength, and then, you know, have the trust to rely on someone else to own their part of the pie instead of trying to do all the things because otherwise you're going to have that burnout if you try to do all of the things for too long. Now, when you're just starting out, you may have to. But find you that other creative because someone is out there who enjoys doing the thing that you don't enjoy doing, which for me, I thank my editors on the reg because I don't understand how they can enjoy being in a room by themselves for hours on end, but they somehow

do. And I thank my lucky stars that we found each other because they, on the flip side, can't imagine being on a podcast, talking with other people and having to come up with answers live or having conversations with a client. They couldn't fathom that so you know hey find someone who's got opposite strengths of you and together make a creative team yeah one one person's nightmare is another person's heaven you know like that's just how it is so true carol you're talking like him now yeah i know see even i even i'm now starting to get these new sayings. Thanks, y'all.

It's rubbing off. Hey, there you go. We'll make a Southern W yet. There you go. I'll start saying A so I can be a little bit more of a Canadian. And a boot. And a boot, yeah. Amazing.

All right. Well, Zach, thank you so much for coming on this was a good episode i like what we talked about especially on the retainer module and the the editing side if it gets delayed that's something carol and i need to chat about after this call some contract changes need to happen that's the one thing we always like about this show is that i think it allows a lot of us with our guests to kind of discuss ideas and even explore things that are in the back of our minds that we haven't had a chance to kind of bring out in the open. It's like there's only so much you can do with your own team. But when you talk with other people, new ideas and perspectives come out. And that's what we love about this show. Right.

Well, and that was one reason I was excited to be on the show is I'm a verbal processor. So I was excited to get your perspective. And I love what y'all are doing. If more creatives felt empowered to reach out to each other, because I feel like there can be a, oh, but I don't want to talk to people because then they might find my secrets or, and I feel like that the reality is we're so hungry to, hey, talk to each other, find out what you're doing right. What's maybe something that I could avoid? And the more conversations like this that are had,

I think the stronger we'll all become not only as creatives, but as an industry. Yeah. Let's get rid of that stigma. Yeah. And you mentioned secrets. Like you'll, you'll quickly find out, like, it's not a secret. Someone else has thought about it. Someone else has tried it right everyone has a key light that they use in their videos that's not a secret right right because even if you even even if you find out something you still have to implement it you still have to be able to successfully do it and that only comes with practice and having the gumption to do it yeah and for your business specifically yeah which is even trickier

because it's all like specific to you. Yeah. That's one thing we've mentioned on the show is that what works for one company does not necessarily mean it's going to work for the other one. And, you know, like maybe little tips here and there

can kind of help and you can implement, but entire strategies and direction, you can't, as a business, you can't just switch that after one conversation with someone. You don't know why it works for them. So that's, that's the thing. Right. Well, to me as well as at the end of the day, we're all human and your team will have a unique makeup purely by the people that are on your team, because we can all buy the same camera.

We can all go on B&H and all as different businesses buy the same camera, but you can't replicate the same person. And so it's, all right, how are you strategically creating that client experience from the folks that you have on your team? team on a podcast, but you won't be able to have the same crew layout and the same team. And that's why I feel like as creatives, like we should be sharing more of the technical so that we can then focus on the more relational. Yeah. And it'll just, if we set like an industry standard in a way, it makes all of our jobs easier because when your client eventually moves on to another company, at least they're trained. If you've done your job properly, rather than you having the next person having to train the client. And when, and just to clarify for the audiences that when you're talking about sharing the technicals, it's not sharing the technicals of how to film things,

but the technicals of how to conduct yourself in a business setting with clients. Business practices, yeah. And how to service clients. Because at the end of the day, we're all servicing clients in very similar ways. You know, like, yeah, we're creating different products. But sales services and business practices translate to every industry. And so, you know, that's one thing that definitely needs a standardization of professionalism in this industry because they're not, everyone knows how to do that. So, yeah.

And that's a good call out. Not the technical, perhaps a better word would be the tactical. The tactical, yeah. Tactical. Is what we can share a lot more of. Well, you haven't asked me what Maleshko, well, I was going to say, you haven't asked me what Maleshko i was gonna say you haven't asked me what maleshko means like you you ask all of your oh i thought i thought i thought you uh it was the guy's covered that in the beginning yeah it's the guy's last name no the uh the photographers

yeah but we didn't talk about what it means oh there's another there's a there's a meaning i had my notes i was like one consistent question yeah was like, I was so ready for this. I was going to be there. I was going to hit. I thought we covered it. Yeah. I was thinking to myself, I'm like, I think we could. Yeah. Okay. What's it mean? What's it mean? Right. Right. Well, Maleshko actually, while it's a Belarusian name, actually has its roots in Greek and it basically means hardworking in Greek, which is something that once we delved into that and found that name, we used to be Tom Maleshko Photography. And then we were for a while, and I'm glad it was a short stint, Maleshko Creative Imaging, which I feel like was trying to add all the things together. But yet so many people thought that we were a printing company.

that's a long name. So many people thought that we were a printing company. And after a while, after a while, we thought, you know what, let's just stick with Maleshko because kind of like a Deloitte, like Deloitte, they do consulting. Now the name doesn't tell you that they do consulting, but they've built their reputation as, oh, when you hear that, you equate it with consulting. And so as we were trying to come up with a name, we were like, why don't we just stick with Maleshko? I mean, it's roots mean hardworking, which I mean, what better thing to communicate to your client that like, hey, we're going to work for you. We're going to be providing you with the best service we can. But then we don't need to say Maleshko video production, Maleshko create it.

Like after a while, if we've earned that trust with a client, they will begin to equate Maleshko with, ah, those are the creative partners we go to, to get it done. And so far we've had success with that. You're very fortunate to have a unique name in that sense that you can acquire it. Because there are a lot of businesses that can't do that. Like the trust is like we tried to get laps.com long time ago, but that didn't work out because it was already taken. And full disclosure, we also saw that there was no competition on SEO or website domain. And so that that also helped us with the decision of going with Maleshko. Yeah, I think that's the 80% driving factor when you pick a name is that is it taken? Right. Well, at least in the US, if you're in Belarus, it's like Smith over there. So,

you know, hey, location, location, location. But here in the US, I mean, we have it to ourselves pretty solidly. There's not a whole lot of Google traffic on Maleshko. Nice. Nice. That's great. Well, Zach, thanks again for joining us on the show. And, uh, we look forward to seeing what you guys do in the future as well. Well, same.

Well, thanks for having me and look forward to hearing more great conversation. Cause this was 49. He said, so you're about to celebrate 50, 50 next episode. congratulations we got a pop a bottle of champagne hey girl yeah my name is not chris did you call me chris almost 49 episodes in it's 10 a.m i need my second coffee okay did i actually say chris you know what I was about to say? Crystal for some weird reason. A bottle of crystal I was thinking in my head. Oh, my God.

Yeah, you know what? We'll do that. We'll make Irish coffees with the next one, all right? Oh, then I'm going to have to listen in for episode 50. That's going to be – there you go. You know what? Let's do that. Creatives grabbing spiked coffee. Oh my God. Turn it off halfway into it.

There you go. Amazing. All right. Okay. Well, take care, Zach. We'll keep in touch. All right. See y'all. Thanks for watching!