Creatives Grab Coffee - Navigating Growth & Rebranding in Video | Creatives Grab Coffee 53

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

📣 Navigating Growth & Rebranding in Video! 📣 🎧 Episode 53 is here, and we're stoked to have Ariel Martinez from Miami Video Productions join us this week. We have jam packed great content in this episode 🔥 Some of the Topics We Discuss 🔥 👉The strategic importance of Rebranding your video production business for maximum impact. 🔄 👉The crucial decision between focusing on Personal Growth vs Business Growth. Which path is for you? 🌱 vs 📈 👉The fine line between Corporate and Commercial Projects and why knowing the difference is a game-changer for your business. 🎬 🔒 But Wait, There's More! 🔒 For those who want to learn more, we have an exclusive 1-hour 45-minute uncut version of this insightful episode available on our Patreon. Trust us, you don't want to miss out on the additional golden nuggets! 🌟 https://www.patreon.com/CreativesGrabCoffee Need a new website host? GET 2 MONTHS OF FREE HOSTING WITH KINSTA: https://kinsta.com/wordpress-hosting/?kaid=ECCBZWELRZHU🎞️ Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.com

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creatives Grab Coffee is hosted by Daria Nuri and Kirill Lazarev from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors. Do you have a shoot in Toronto? Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? Laps Productions is one of the top

production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. Laps Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPSProductions.com to learn more. My name is Mehran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages, or lighting and group band packages.

You can see our contact information in the link below. We are more than happy to help you guys out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativescraftcoffee.com. Thank you. Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, Foley. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto. We got you covered. Come on down. Audioprocess.ca.

Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to creativesgrabcoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. And we're all going to have a real good time. Creatives Grab Coffee is on Patreon. Help support the show by becoming a patron

via the link in the description and get exclusive access to full uncut episodes, all reels and highlights at episode release, live shows and call-ins, ability to request cities and guests, and updates plus BTS content. Join now via the link in the description to get access to all the knowledge our guests have to offer. And now, let's begin the show. knowledge our guests have to offer. And now, let's begin the show. Okay, perfect. So, all right, let's just get it started and then we can dive back into testing out the thumbs up feature on Riverside. Okay, guys, welcome to episode 53. We got

Ariel Martinez with us today. He's from Miami. His company is Miami Video Productions. So, funny story about you, Ariel. Kirill actually sent me your podcast about four or five months ago. Oh my God. I was like, why does he seem familiar? I didn't even realize this. Yeah. So funny. Kirill sent me your podcast. He's like, hey, check this out. This guy's doing something similar to us and his episodes are pretty good. And I watched it and I was like, oh yeah, this is pretty cool. And I added it to my list. There you go. And totally forgot about it.

Months later, I'm reaching out, finally get in touch with you. And I'm like, why does he sound familiar? And why does his picture look really familiar too? Yeah, no, well, we have a big library online and every time I hear that someone has even heard it, I forgot that I did do the podcast. And it's always interesting to get that feedback again.

So you're not doing it anymore? I am. So I took like a year off because just work started getting crazy. I got married. And then now we have... Congrats. Thank you. Nice.

We're about to celebrate now two years, though. So now we. You see that? Like, it's a bad thing. Huh? No, no, no. Like, it's a bad thing. Sorry about that.

No, no. Marriage life is the best. Sorry about that. We're saving you from your wife. Don't worry. No, no, no. Marriage life is the best. She's actually in the other room with our with our newborn now.

So it's definitely been one thing after another. And then I finally decided this has to come back. This is going to have to work into the schedule somehow. So we're still figuring that out. But we're going to relaunch it now. With a different sort of branding, different approach to the podcast. But yeah, still working on that so for those that don't know what was your podcast about and what's your new focus going to be and what's what was the name of it too so if they want they can check it out so the it's funny because

i'm like the king of rebrands um i i i'm always like renaming things so it originally started off as the i filmmaker podcast um which was fine and like i it was cool people knew about it i wasn't like i'm always second guessing the names that i pick um and it was fine it was we did a couple hundred episodes and then toward the end before i before I took a break from it, I had rebranded it to, because I rebranded my entire company to Miami Video Productions. And then I rebranded the podcast to Miami Video Podcast. Why? I don't know. I think it really was more of like, if I'm doing this and really not making any money on it, it's just volunteer stuff. Maybe it should just point back to the website. But then after I made that change,

I was thinking, wait, sometimes I don't want my clients seeing this stuff too. So, uh, cause I do talk about my clients sometimes. So I'm like, man, I really didn't have like sort of a focus and a direction. All I knew is that I love talking about video production. I love talking about it. So I, you know, the podcast was about me. I had a couple different co-hosts throughout the podcast. Then I invited a bunch of guests on and I did very little solo episodes. And it was really more kind of like sort of your guys' model. You invite somebody on, you have a conversation, you pick sort of a topic of discussion, and you kind of talk around that topic. This new direction is going to be a lot more educational based. It's going to be a lot more step-by-step guides. It's going to be a lot more solo episodes.

And there's going to be a course that I'm actually building out that is going to be catered toward that as well. So it's a lot more, I guess, on my end to try and have another source of revenue type of deal. But at the same time, I really think that there's tons of filmmaking courses out there. This is not going to really be a filmmaking course. It's going to be more of a business building course. I think that in my career, in my business, I've been able to do things that I don't see a lot of my, I guess, colleagues doing. things that I don't see a lot of my, I guess, colleagues doing. And then I think that some people can benefit from that knowledge and how I do it because I really do take a lot of knowledge

and wisdom from people that are not in our industry, a lot more business-based professionals and entrepreneurs. And I've implemented that in my business model. And I think that a lot of people can benefit from that. That's something we were, Carol and I were chatting about off the podcast as well. Like one of our long-term goals was like, hey, you know, maybe when we hit 100 episodes, we'll just amalgamate it all into like a course or something or a book. Who knows?

You could, absolutely. I would say even a thousand. I feel like a thousand gives it that extra little bit of like, oh, we've really talked to a lot of people kind of thing. But yeah, that was the other thing you mentioned, which was like, oh, we've really talked to a lot of people kind of thing. But yeah, that was the other thing you mentioned, which was like, you're talking about like reaching out and talking to different types of businesses. In the kind of guests that you bring on, are they mostly video production companies or is, okay. Yeah. So now in this new rebrand, in this new sort of approach,

it's going to not be mostly, it will be video production professionals, but it's going to be entrepreneurs. Like it could be a guest about how they manage to achieve a certain type of success of scale. Right. And they're using a technique that could easily be applied into our business model as well. So I think that it's not a bad idea because that's what I've done. our business model as well. So I think that it's not a bad idea because that's what I've done. I've looked at other entrepreneurs that are not, not one of my mentors are in my space, in my video production industry. And I've learned so much from them. And I think that it's important to see how other people do it in other industries, because although some things might not work, other things might, you know, and I think that we can apply those kinds of scaling techniques, business building techniques, you know, email listing models that they use in our business as well with hiring, with selective clients and things like that.

What did you do in the rebranding? Was it just like a name change? Was it like a, was there more that happened on the business side of things? What was part of it? The rebrand was really to establish a difference in approach. The rebrand is really to let them know this is a different show. I didn't want to open up another podcast. I didn't want to have another podcasting account. I'm going to keep the same library that we have. And there's basically going to be like an establishing point where this has

changed from here on forward. I meant more so for the business. So like when you went from, I don't know what your business was called before Miami video productions. Also, how did you, how did you even get the, the URL,

the domain for that? It's like literally, that's going to be a chicken on my lap. I had Miami video services. The rebrand really was to Miami Video Services. I wanted Productions, but it was not available. So I had services. It lasted like four or five months before somebody emailed me,

hey, MiamiVideoProductions.com is available. $400. And I said, yes. No, that's cheap. I know. That's pretty good. So I jumped on that real fast and immediately started rebranding once more from Miami Video Services to Miami because I wanted MVP also the the the initials MVP. So that is how that happened. And what it was before it was just Miami Video. I'm sorry. It was Ariel Martinez Films, which is myself. And so it happened. My first company, when I first started was 10 Gates

Productions. That was a production company. But then I immediately, a couple of years into it, I'm like, I decided I want to be a DP. I want to be a cinematographer. I want to sell myself and I want to have that image. So I did that. I rebranded to Ariel Martinez Films and it worked perfectly. It worked. You know, my client started hiring me. Things were going great. I was getting some great jobs, great DP work, which I still am. everything I'm learning, right, from those around me that are like mentoring me and kind of speaking into my life, speaking into my business, without knowing, it just started growing. And then before you know it, I'm there hiring crews of like 15, 20 people on a set. And sometimes it's not even a film set. Sometimes it's a broadcast. Sometimes it's a podcast. Sometimes it's very different things that kind of doesn't

brand well with Ariel Martinez Films. And so I started thinking, I want to build a production company. So do I want to grow myself and do as much as I can possibly do? Because it doesn't brand well. Let's say I want, if I want more clients like that, because it's very profitable to have jobs like that. If I want more clients like that, and then very profitable to have jobs like that if i want more clients like that and then they come and visit ariel martinez films website it's not going to be as appealing as coming to a production company and seeing that we do a lot of good work and showing showcasing everything that we do so under ariel martinez films at a hard time sort of because the word films is really what was killing me. And then my name, it's really a lot of people that I'm sending out on these sets.

And I had to kind of separate myself from my name, really, from the work. It really had to be a production company. My clients already knew me at the time, so they were able to reach out to me regardless to continue working but i started to go in the direction of building a production company where um i don't always have to do it myself right and then it actually kind of it kind of blew my mind when i when i um i i was working one time and a couple times i've i've heard one of my friends on set, you know, a colleague of mine, and they answer a potential client on the phone and, you know, they're saying, hey, are you available this day? And they're like, no, I'm sorry, I can't do it. They hang up. And then it happened again.

And in my mind, I'm thinking, why would you miss out on that work? Like, even though you can't do it, like you could send somebody and still make some money. work like even though you can't do it like you could send somebody and still make some money um and that's kind of like where it started like think i started it started hitting me like people don't do this like you're only selling your own time and if you really want to you know grow and be profitable you know you got to sell other people's time as well you made the transition from videographer to video production correct owner that that's the main transition you were making at that time. Essentially, yeah.

Right. So I had to take my name out of it and show a production company that could do a lot of different types of work. And then the scale of work that we could do, because every videographer, you know, I'm sure you guys can go in and show up with one camera in a backpack and just get recap footage for a recap video at any event. footage for a recap video at any event that same person can they have an eight camera setup with a jib and two steady cams and go live and at the adrian arts center in downtown well yes they can do that as well and so that's kind of what i wanted to showcase sort of uh as a production company that it could all be done really and then obviously at a high level at a good level you're not compromising quality yeah yeah it's a it's an important transition to make and the name change is definitely a part of that like when carol and i were first starting out one one key thing we wanted to do was we wanted to give off the impression we were a business versus just a

like a freelancer that's why we we opted for like the name lapse productions and not something that incorporated like Dario and Carol Films, something like that. Because we knew if we did that, then we would always be looked at as videographers. And those are actually like two distinct things that sometimes clients get confused with. But like, if they're, there's completely different search terms, you know, like if you go on Google and you're typing videography you're mostly getting well mostly wedding companies or or like solo freelancers right versus if you go video production that's when you get that's when you get production companies the other problem when you go with your own

name sometimes for a production company is that you're always gonna be viewed as the one that people want to hire so So you're going to be going back to the same aspect of selling your time because if you're not available for something and you tell the client, like, hey, let me send out one of my guys. They're like, no, but this is the Kuro films or Dario films or Ario films. Like we want you because that's what we're hiring for. We don't want someone else, right? So you're selling the person at that point rather

than the the service and the and the team right like you're you're trying to sell a team rather than a person that's what you're doing with a production company and to do that you have to come up with a brand name um irrespective of your name or at least do like what our last guest on the podcast did which was kind of come up with like an interesting name based off of his, but you know, it all, it all depends. You have to sell it as a team essentially. Yeah. Um, with all that being said though, it's not, you know, it's not like you can't be extremely profitable just selling your name. You could, I just, um, I just actively made a decision. I thought about it and decided, do I want to grow? If I kept my name, my prices just have to keep going up and up and up.

And you could do that if you're at that level. I think I'm a pretty good DP. I think I could get the job done for the most part. But I don't know that I was interested in becoming the DP and becoming the one to hire as opposed to becoming the production company to hire. And so I made the conscious decision to, you know what, I want to grow a production company and have everything under one umbrella and be what I think is more profitable that way. and be what i think is more profitable that way um i think it would have been a harder road to to go if i was to just keep my name raise my prices get better at my craft and hopefully convince some people to hire me and pay me a huge premium to to do the job well there's a ceiling if you stick with just being like a DP. There's a ceiling because like if you're doing corporate, like you could be the best one.

But there's a certain rate that you'll need to abide by for certain levels of corrections. After that point, it kind of gets to the point where it's like, well, okay, you're good. But I can't afford that. That's not part of the budget. I think transitioning to producer, like that's when you can, the ceiling is what you cap it at essentially, right? It depends on what types of projects you take on. Yeah, that's what I mean by it's a harder road to follow because I mean, you're talking about,

are we going up to like the Shane Hurlbutt side of like DPing that level? Because he does commercial stuff as well. But I'm sure his prices are completely different. If that's where your approach is, then that's fine. But it's a harder road to go on. It's a different road too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that's more like commercial. Again, like we mentioned this on the podcast, there's essentially three different paths. You either go into commercials, you go corporate, or you go film and TV. It's like they're not the same road. Oh, yeah. Each one is its own animal, right?

Do you have a shoot in Toronto? Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? Laps Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. LAPS Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPSproductions.com to learn more. My name is Mehran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes.

Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages, or lighting and group van packages. You can see our contact information in the link below. We are more than happy to help you guys out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativesgrabcoffee.com. Thank you. Yeah, I'm more on the, actually, I actually, we actually do a lot of, a lot of corporate. We do some commercial, but mostly corporate stuff for the most part what would you call a what would you

call a graduation what would you call it was that graduation like a commencement ceremony education education or that's a that's a that falls that falls on the yeah but that falls into corporate that's more so yeah is it yeah yeah i mean yeah they're they're you know they're hope if you're dealing with a business it's a it's corporate that's true but if it's unless you get like commercials commercials i would say is well commercial i would say is like higher level corporate in a way because it's it's it's more so for stuff that's going to be broad i guess it's part of broad i mean i've done commercials locally it's ad space it's like you're literally pushing ad dollars behind a project.

That's what is commercial work. Whereas corporate is like non-ad revenue push. I don't know that. But they do. They do technically. Actually, this is an interesting discussion. What's the difference between commercial and corporate? I mean, look, no company.

I'm talking education. i'm talking university they won't spend so much money if they don't expect to get something back from it right yeah um so i mean any company really no yeah you're right every time even movies so we're really talking about categories here right what does it fall under commercial or so if you're yeah it's it's it's a very commercial and corporate don't very vague i feel i feel like they're almost the same are we are we thinking narratives but narratives is very different to shoot that is a hard road to follow yeah narrative is completely that's a different thing because you could make money in narrative but it's almost like trying to be an actor i guess okay commercials i guess is commercials

i guess it's if it goes on tv it'll be considered a commercial commercial world but it's not digital now like commercials are digital darren it's not you can't say commercials just tv now like it you guys have TVs? Maybe the size of the budget because it's like not like a manufacturing company is not going to put $100,000 to create a video and then pump like half a million to promote it on social media. It'll be like Coca-Cola will do that, but not. If a company calls you and says, hey, we want to do a web video, let's say. We want to do interviews with our customers, want to do some B-roll, put this together,

put it on our website. What is that called? What is that considered? Corporate? Corporate. What if they get that same video, then put it on TV, cut it down to 30 seconds? Is that now commercial?

Because they could do that. But you know, for them to do that, it's like the scale, maybe the scale of it changes. No, it doesn't. Well, look, because we're- Anything can be commercial. That's the point he's making, Zario. I've seen commercials on TV that look atrocious.

There is no scale there. There is no scale on those TV commercials. paper yes but when we mean commercial i think it means something else like i maybe for us and when we say like oh we're doing commercials like it's you kind of understand it's like oh okay that's a whole other level now guys another another different thing oh sorry ariel just to add one more point the the commercial world in the u.s is very different from canada for example you have the entire medical sector that has all those infomercial commercial type projects that are everywhere every time i go to a hotel in the u.s there are so many different kinds of

commercials that i never even thought were possible compared to what's in canada that's probably why there's such a weird blurred line. It's like, what is commercial or corporate? It's like, it's literally just, they'll film it and they'll throw it out there. I honestly,

I, I categorize it all under one. I put it all in a commercial for me. Um, okay. I put it like, for example, on my website,

you'll find it says commercial, right? However, I do put corporate events right just to make sure that they know we could still work under the commercials or like separate separate separate thing so i want to make sure that i i try to find what the different types of clients that would potentially be visiting my website. And then I put those categories. I specifically, because I get a lot of clients that just want an interview and they don't care about B-roll. I specifically do like testimonial videos. Like that's a separate

thing that could fall under commercial, but testimonial videos is something that I put in there and things that I get called for on a separate basis. Testimonials are a type of video. They're not necessarily kind of like a different space, right? But the other thing is, I think I got it, guys. Internal is corporate. External is commercial. Done.

Dusted. That's it. That's actually not a bad one. Internal, external. That's the best way to describe it. Because a lot of the time, yeah, they just need an interview, even with a little bit of B-roll. It's a lot of the time yeah they just need an interview even with a little bit of b-roll it's a lot of the time for but carol but carol carol what but commercial is really just b2c not b2b no no man no there's a lot of b2b

you think businesses don't sell to other businesses his way through this conversation no yes i think the distinction is scale i'm gonna stick with that scale listen if you and an outreach and outreach like if you're tart because it's b2b you know the market is small but here's the thing you could get the same video it's very direct small space and a lot big space you get me like you could scale it up to a nationwide commercial and you can have it local and you can have it on your website the same video could do the whole thing so how do you just i'll give you a you know what this is probably the argument uh that people in in narratives have where it's like tvs are still like narratives but then film people will probably go like no it's not the same thing it's different

tvs like uh you know like there's film and tv right but i'm sure between them they have like arguments where it's like no film is more more of a narrative it's more when you say tv artistic compared to tv when you say like shows i think he means television oh television yeah i was getting confused too he's he's talking about the categories that you see on netflix like tv oh as opposed to movies now that's now that's flipped yeah no that yeah people are binging on a lot of shows now but yeah you're right they are they've got the the quality has gotten like i guess tv uh level or film level yeah they've gotten up there i feel like this is the business version of canon or sony you know that we're kind of talking about

yeah but at the end of the day so you know my goal is to show that we could do it all you know what's interesting, though? I don't have, I really don't have narratives on my website. Like, I don't know. I don't think I've. Well, that's like movies, though, right? Like when people say narratives, they mean either short films or movies. Because most of the time, those projects are self-funded. Most of the time.

And if they're not, they're looking at a hollywood studio to put it together you know so um or you know people that specialize in narratives uh but yeah i don't also don't have weddings on my website either do you still do them no i'll do it as favors as for friends i know shooters that do do them and you know you know they had a budget i'll help you know help facilitate a couple of people to go and shoot it for them um but yeah i don't do weddings hey what's up everybody i'm matt welcome to audio process we are a boutique audio company doing location sound sound design post sound adr foley we service equipment we do all your audio needs here in toronto we got you covered come on down audioprocess.ca don't forget to like follow We are Foley. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto.

We got you covered. Come on down. Audioprocess.ca. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to creativesgrabcoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. And we're all going to have a real good time.

Essentially, like narrative work, like you said, is something completely separate. You're usually, it's not a client that is looking for content. It's not going to come to you and say like, hey, let's make a short film. So it's a completely different genre of video creation at that point. When you're starting like a production company, you want to figure out what type of clientele you're serving, who you're selling to essentially, like who's your audience, right? And if you're doing a lot of the time corporate commercial essentially, like who's your audience, right? And if you're doing a lot of the time corporate commercial, this is why we're having this debate, because a lot of

the time corporate and commercial can be the same client, right? For one client, you could be doing a lot of corporate internal videos, but they might also need a 30 second spot that needs to get pushed out into the digital space, the film, the television space and all that stuff. But that's why there's that kind of blurred line because it's commercials like, as Dario said, in a way, sometimes it's a more scaled up type project. Whereas when you think of corporate is a lot of the time also a much smaller scale type project, right? If you're serving wedding clients, then you're serving wedding clients.

If you're doing only narrative companies, if you're only doing narratives, short films, and film production, who are you selling to? To producers and to agencies and other people in that space. It's a completely different type of people that you're trying to sell to. And that's what you need to figure out when you're doing a production company. Who is your main client base and who are you selling to that's good uh yeah like i also like what you said regarding how to distinguish it i think you you you nailed it when you said like corporate is internal and commercial is what goes out to the public so that's not a bad way of describing it i want to talk a bit about the landscape down there so i like you know

there's a ton of companies that have left california and moved over to like texas and florida i'm just wondering have you noticed more work coming your way because of that or as a scene change have you noticed more competition maybe some companies moved out from from the west come to the east side i'll be honest with you i really don't monitor that the landscape or my competition that way i don't i um because i don't know what good that would do me right so i i'm constantly i do look at my competition in the sense of what are they doing how are they doing it um Is there something that I can improve? I'm looking at their website. I always look for improvements that could be made.

But at that scale, monitoring what the industry looks like, let's say in all of Miami, for example. I wouldn't even know how to begin to monitor that. There's no website that I can go to that I know of that would tell me how work is doing. The only way that I monitor it really is I ask those around me and studios that I'm currently working at how's work going how's uh you know how's it so like for example we just got out of one of the slowest summers i have ever experienced ever oh my god it was like there oh it was so slow like scary we had something similar and i thought mind you i have a one month old i was like what's here? Like, we got to get back to work. And my wife just stopped working too.

So like, okay. Bad timing. Yeah, bad timing. But that is a pattern in the summer that it usually gets slow. But this has been the slowest. And so I started asking around. I started asking people that I work with a lot. I was working at a studio and asked them like, Hey man, how was your summer? Like, has it been slow for you too?

And every single one of them has said, absolutely. It was scary as hell. One of the studios that I was working at said that they almost had to start laying people off because it was that slow. Um, it was just a very, very slow summer, which makes sense because a lot of people take vacations when school's out, right? So, um, they're, they're not at work. You got marketing people that are out on vacation with their kids because, you know, they're not in school anymore.

So there's a lot less work to go around, but it's really, the patterns haven't really changed. So now it's picking up a lot. Now I'm getting like two and three inquiries per day. So that's like a lot coming in now. So there are a lot of ebbs and flows. And you guys know this. When it rains, it pours. And so now it's about to pour. So it's really, the pattern really hasn't changed.

It's interesting how people may not not some people may not realize this that the all these different industries pretty much revolve around the education system and what happens with kids these days whatever's whatever's going on with schools that's what's going on with everybody else it's like okay kids are off for two months from july to august don't expect much work at that time because everyone's going to be going on vacation, putting off projects till after they come back. That's why a lot of the time, September is usually a really busy time for everybody because everybody's coming back, getting started at the very least into the end of September and October can get really busy. But I mean, one of the other ways we've always seen about how things are with other competition

is who we're pitching against sometimes, right? Do you find that you're with, back to Dario's question about how people, a lot of companies are moving into Miami and Florida. Do you find that you're pitching up against new companies that you haven't seen before? Or is it still a lot of the same people that you're still kind of in competition with?

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