Creatives Grab Coffee - Niche, B Corp, Proposals, & AI (ft. Upmedia Video) #95

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, Anthony Madani from Up Media (Vancouver, Canada) discusses his journey from animation into video production, and shares strategic insights on how focusing on healthcare and technology niches has accelerated his business growth. Anthony dives deep into the process of becoming a certified B Corporation, highlighting how aligning with purpose-driven initiatives and social impact projects attracts ideal clients. He also explores effective client communication, using detailed proposals and case studies to win trust, along with the value of reciprocity-driven networking. Additionally, Anthony reflects on the role of AI in video production, emphasizing its potential as a powerful tool rather than a threat. This episode provides actionable advice and valuable perspectives for filmmakers and marketers aiming to sustainably grow their video production businesses.TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Episode Introduction and Guest Welcome02:38 - Guest Bio: Anthony Madani from Up Media02:46 - Anthony’s journey from animation to video production04:38 - Early experiences and the shift from passion projects to corporate work07:01 - The importance of exploring diverse industries when starting out07:57 - Niching into healthcare and technology sectors08:46 - Positioning as an industry expert without limiting new opportunities10:20 - Using targeted case studies to attract ideal clients14:39 - Organic process of identifying and growing a niche15:48 - Advantages of becoming a Certified B Corporation (B Corp)17:39 - The in-depth process and benefits of obtaining B Corp certification23:45 - How being a B Corp impacts lead generation and client relationships26:24 - Strategic approach to selecting ideal client leads27:56 - Creating effective case studies to showcase results and expertise31:36 - Importance of thoughtful, detailed proposals over rushed quotes41:42 - Benefits and strategies for creating behind-the-scenes content44:41 - Effective networking tips and building genuine reciprocity54:24 - Leveraging AI to enhance video production quality and efficiency01:07:16 - Future vision for Up Media and operational improvements01:09:40 - Strategies for managing client delays and keeping projects on track01:20:46 - Importance of clear proposals and transparent client communication01:27:31 - Origin story behind the name “Up Media”01:28:55 - Closing Remarks and Final ThoughtsSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vHd8BdbkMQITFZmDJ0bo9🍏 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/creatives-grab-coffee/id1530864140 🎞️Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.comTo learn more about the show, visit: https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/

Welcome to Creative Scrap Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creative Scrap Coffee is hosted by Dario Nuri and Kirill Lazerov from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors. Do you have a shoot in Toronto?

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Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, and today we're finally coming back to Canada After two years it's been two years since we've had a guest from Canada and we're gonna start it off with Anthony Madani From up media who's based in Vancouver Anthony. Welcome to the show. Hey good to be here So let's start this off with a little history on how you got into the video production industry and how you started your company. Yeah, so my originally my background was actually in the animation industry so I went to school to become an animator originally. However when we were in animation school the first year was actually technically a film school so we

had to learn how to use cameras, we had to shoot our own short film, we had to do a lot of very film related stuff. So that kind of planted the seed for me just loving the video production side of things as well. Then I kinda got my feet wet in the animation industry, worked on a bunch of big projects, spent about eight years doing that, but all the while on the side I was like kinda, you know playing with my camera like filming projects shooting music videos once in a while I got a you know a couple of weddings and I was like man I love animation but also really love film as well and was just kind of like jumping

back and forth and at one point you know I just started getting enough requests for film work in that I was like, well, maybe I should just start a company that specializes in video and offer animation. And that was kind of the inception. And that was 2013. So that was over a decade ago. That's pretty much when we got into video. Yeah. Yeah. like what month specifically? Maybe it was the same month. The same month, same day. I don't know.

I think it was like April is spring or something like that. You started earlier. I started September 2013. Dario joined in January 2014. So technically he's not of the 2013 era. Yeah, but I had experience with cameras back then. There was that YouTube channel we did stuff for. Oh, yeah.

But you know, it definitely makes sense that you went the route that you did because you're starting to see what opportunities there are. And especially when you're starting out your career, you have to try whatever is coming your way because you don't know anything yet, especially us who are just jumping into the industry if you don't go to film school or anything. And even if you go to film school, you don't know what

this industry is like. You need to, you need to wet your beak a little bit in different areas and kind of see what works, what sticks for you. Cause you never know otherwise. I mean, like you tried animation first and then all of a sudden opportunities and videos start rolling through from that. You could at least start building a foundational business and still do animation work, right? Yeah, and I was really lucky. I just got to dabble in it for a while while I had like another source of income. And just play around and see what I liked, you know.

And yeah, it was really funny. Like I really wanted to start a music video business where I just did music videos. But what I found, I really struggled with the idea of using that as a side income or a main income because I was just working with a lot of starving artists and I was always just haggling and haggling trying to get paid to do this music video when at the same time I might talk to a small business and be like, like yeah I've got a budget like let's do it I'm like oh

okay great so I kind of just transitioned that way like obviously music videos are super fun and they're artistic and they're creative I can still do them but I'd almost do them more for fun now as a passion project whereas like corporate video you know pays the bills. So, yeah. Are you trying to say you couldn't pay your rent in pizza? And fist bumps? Yeah, no, music videos are a creative endeavor. And if you're gonna do them, you gotta do it with the expectation is you're not gonna make a lot of money.

You're going to get to try new things, use it like a creative experiment kind of area, right? That's the best way to do it. Really, the only place where there is a way to kind of start building like decent funding or money is usually like in the corporate and kind of promotional video route. That's those, that's where like people are ready to spend money. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's where there's a lot of activity and a lot of need and a lot of corporate companies that, you know,

frankly they have a budget. So, you know, if you go there, you can thrive. What kind of like corporate videos were you starting out with typically like, or at least businesses, were you doing more in like the finance sector or was it kind of like small businesses you were doing mostly those types of projects? Yeah, when I started, I would do a video for anybody.

Like, I had no niche, I had no particular area. It was just anyone that needed a video, I'd be like, yeah, I can do it. So I did everything from, like, you know, dentists to yoga teachers to, you name it, like, and all kind of weird stuff. Like, anything that I could, you know, that would pay anyone at the beginning that would pay, anyone at the beginning

that would pay me to do a video, I would do a video, as long as it was a tasteful business, right? But there was no niche at all, and so niche is something that I've really had to learn to develop, but at the beginning, it's just like anything, and you kind of, it's not a bad strategy in the beginning, because you kind of want to try different things, like maybe enjoy shooting for restaurants more more or maybe you enjoy shooting real estate

more. Like you just don't know. Like you said, like you got to try it out and see what your preference is. And what about now? Have you niched down into a specific industry? Yeah, so now I work very specifically with a lot of healthcare. That's sort of the main industry that we've done a lot of work for. But outside of that, we also work with like, well, tech healthcare, and outside of that, like tech companies, so agricultural technology, tech startups, basically like our favorite type of

client and niche is really like technology based companies. Those companies are doing really innovative work. They have a need for a good video to help tell their story. And it's just a really fun and constantly evolving industry to be working in. And like have you, sorry, I was gonna say like, have you, are you still open to different industries approaching here or do you specifically just focus

on healthcare and tech? Yeah, like we don't shut the door if someone comes to us and wants to do that kind of work. It's just that we position ourselves now as experts in that category. And that's the beauty of it. Like if someone came to me and they're like, hey, we wanna do, I don't know, like say they were,

like a yoga teacher, I'll go back to that example, like we can still do it, doesn't mean I don't know, like say they were, like a yoga teacher, I'll go back to that example, like we can still do it, doesn't mean we don't know how to make a great video or a fitness trainer or something like that. It's just, you know, we have a lot of clients that we can work with that are focused in other areas. Yeah, and one thing I'm learning lately is that it's, you can niche in very interesting ways

even. I was actually just speaking with a director friend of mine this morning and he was saying like one mutual company that we had worked for together in the past, they had just started focusing just on nuclear-based energy companies and that is like something that they're starting to niche down. Doesn't mean that they won't do other types of projects like you said, but I think more and more production companies are starting to recognize that there is a certain kind of client that they tend to gravitate more towards and that's kind

of like the work that they thrive in. So it makes it easier to market yourself and position yourself to those types of leads and clients and then kind of push that. I mean, there's always gonna be people in different industries or different companies that might need video and they're shopping around and trying their hand with different companies, but picking a focus can help you kind of have like a little bit of a north star as a business

and be a little bit easier in terms of like how to pitch to certain clients because you also know their business a bit better by doing so much work with them, right? Yeah, and one of the things I find a lot is if we are working with a potential client, what they always ask to see is like, hey, have you done a video similar to what I'm looking for? Which is kind of a funny question,

because if I haven't done a hydrogen fuel cell video, it doesn't mean we can't make one. We still know framing, we still know storytelling, we still know how to shoot. It's all going to require the same elements. If I've never made a chocolate cake but I've made tons of different other kind of cakes, it's just a couple of adjustments of ingredients. So yeah, we could totally do that, but you know, it really helps when someone comes to you and says, Hey, have you made a hydrogen fuel cell video?

And we go, yeah, we actually have check it out. Then that's like almost a surefire bet that you're going to land that gig. Right. Yeah. That's always something we struggle with because sometimes we do have people coming in from an industry where you haven't worked with yet, but that, you know, I mean, we're generalists. We can do whatever we put our mind to, right?

But sometimes they're looking for like, an exact replica of that video. Yeah. And I find that the best approach for us is kind of like explaining in our case studies that we can create something similar. It'll be like in this style, but also letting them know that

if they want an outside person's perspective on that type of content, we can offer that to them, right? How have you like navigated that type of conversation? Sorry, before we kind of go into that, that just reminded me on one thing because there was actually, I remember one lead was asking us for a particular video we kind of go into that that just reminded me on one thing because there was actually there I Remember one lead was asking us for a particular video in their industry and we had done the exact same kind of video

Just instead of for that kind of tech sector It was like a finance sector one, but they were very particular about wanting that exact replica like which was Like do you find that happens every now and then as well Anthony or? Or is it like just, you just have to explain it and it should be fine? Yeah, it definitely happens. I think a lot of people go into looking at a video company thinking like, hey, have you done the video that I wanna do? Which it's not the best mindset for those clients to be in

because you don't want to necessarily copy someone. I always try to advise that you want to come up with an original video. You want to come up with something that's not been done before. You don't want to do something that's totally experimental, right? But you just don't want to copy your competitor, right? Like how can you plus up the video that your competitor, right? Like how can you plus up, you know, the video that your competitor's done? So I think it's really critical that when you're in early stages of starting a video,

whether you are the client or the video production company, is you have to have a conversation about the strategy. Hey, like why do you even want to make this video? Like say you want a testimonial video. Okay, why do you want a testimonial video? Oh, we just, you know, saw a competitor, okay, but do you know why they chose it? No, you don't, right? So what do you want a testimonial video? Oh, we just saw a competitor, okay, but do you know why they chose it? No, you don't, right?

So what do you need really? Like what's the bottleneck in your business? Let's create a video strategy based off what you really need. That's gonna allow us to create a lot better video and can we fulfill that? 100%. So I think as long as you have that conversation upfront, you can navigate a lot better

what type of video they actually need. And sometimes it's just respectfully challenging them on their mindset around what kind of video. Now, if they have done research, they have a big marketing company, they're like, no, no, we really know that we need a testimonial video because it's like a bottom of funnel video that we're looking for.

Okay, great, you've done a significant amount of research. Now let's talk about the testimonial video because it's like a bottom of funnel video that we're looking for. Okay, great, you've done a significant amount of research. Now let's talk about the testimonial video. Can we do those? Yeah, we've done tons of testimonial videos. Here's an example, here's an example, here's an example. So I think what it comes down to is just how I navigate it and how I recommend other video companies navigate that and even clients looking to get a video is like, you gotta really think about what video do you need versus what video do you want. When you started niching into tech and healthcare, was that like an organic process

or did you actively try to focus on those two industries? It was a totally organic process. I think it's just, you know, we were in a phase where we were evolving out of, you know, just doing work for everybody and we were kind of getting more consistent clients. And I think when we looked at our roster of clients, we realized, oh yeah, we've got a lot of companies that are kind of focused on healthcare or at least some type of initiatives that are good for the planet that might be social impact, social enterprise, or even environmental impact. So it just sort of

spawned out of us doing a lot of different work and naturally recognizing that our portfolio was kind of forming itself. A big side of that though was that we became a certified B corporation and if you don't know what that is it stands for benefit corporation. So it's basically a certification that looks at a whole bunch of different facets of how you run your business and certifies that your business is a good business for the planet. So it makes a positive impact on the planet. And there's a multitude of different ways that every different type of business can

do that. But when we looked at the B Corp certification requirements, we realized that we were doing a lot of that stuff anyway. Like a lot of the stories that we were telling were for brands that were making a really positive impact on the planet. And so we're like, well let's just certify because we're kind of already walking that path. And then when we got certified, we just decided to use that as momentum and say like, hey, let's approach other brands that are also doing good for the planet, whether it's environmental or healthcare or what have you, and just say, hey, we're certified as a B Corp now, we can

help you better than the next company. We've had a guest bring that up last season, Eric Croswell from Bridge City Media. He's also a B certified company based out of Portland, Oregon. It seems to be like a West Coast thing. Like I haven't really seen it. I was just thinking that. It's a West Coast thing.

In the middle of North America or on the East Coast. It's like strictly like West Coast stuff. And you're definitely the first Canadian company that we've come across that. I thought it was an American thing. I heard it was a production company. I thought it was an American thing. I don't even know they offered that in Canada. Yeah, it's now it's grown international now. So you're saying B Corps get certified all over the planet. But I will say that we are one of the

first video production companies in BC that are certified. We're not the first but we're like new on the scene for sure for doing that. Is it like very common over there or is it still kind of like niche in a way? Well as far as video production companies, yeah, and marketing companies, it's still quite new, but there's a lot of B-Corps in Vancouver, BC and in BC. There's a ton of them and there's more and more growing every day. I guess for people that haven't heard the previous episode, like in terms of, can you just explain like

in terms of like the process and was it like a quick and easy thing or did it take a while? How expensive, like was it really expensive or? Yeah, so it's not a quick and easy thing. If you're looking for a quick certification to slap on your website, this is not gonna be it. They do their due diligence on you. And it took us a year to get certified.

So there's a lot of process. Basically how it works is that you go online and fill out an assessment, which is a very in-depth assessment, and they look at things like how you govern your company, they look at your social impact, your environmental impact, they look at all these different things,

and you don't have to excel in all of them. You don't even have to complete all of them, but every category that you can successfully fill out, you get a point. And so, if you reach 80 points Then they will basically certify you So it's done on a point system So you just go in and talk about your business you fill it out and you just talk about what are the impact?

What's the impact that you're having on the planet and you start racking up points? And yeah, if you get to 80 points, then then they'll basically Have an interview to look at certifying you. The cost is actually very interesting. It's not the same cost for everybody. They actually look at your annual revenue and give you a percentage of cost based on how much you make. So you have to understand that there's like financial institutions that are getting B Corp certified. They're not paying the same as a small video business for example or a marketing company so it's very very democratic and how they do it

and it's very fair the way that they they do it. And you have to do it every year? No when you get certified your certification lasts for three years that's what I was gonna say. And then you have to recertify after three years, yeah. Yeah, I remember that was one thing that we realized that that could be like a deterrence for some companies where they would have to keep getting recertified constantly every few years, because it is something that takes time

and it is something you have to very actively keep maintaining to keep you true to being B Corp certified, right? It's not like one of those things where you buy it, you pay once, that's it, and then you know, you could just start slacking off as a business. You know, I think that's not the whole point of it. The whole point is to try to keep the business, you know, with those initiatives going, right?

Accountability. Yeah, I think that it's not as much work to maintain as it might seem. You will get certified if you're already living these principles. You don't have to pivot your whole company to get certified and why would you, right? We decided to go for the certification because we're like, yeah, we're basically, in our hearts, we're already certified. We're just naturally trying to create work and trying to do business in a way that's beneficial

to people, planet, and profit, right? So if you are of that nature in your company, then you're not gonna have to do a whole bunch of grunt work to try to certify. Most likely, you're already more than halfway there and they're just assessing and validating what you're doing. So for us, we don't have to worry.

Now, the standards are evolving and they are changing, especially with the advent of AI and so much change in the political landscape and business and all that kind of stuff. So things are gonna change, but if you're just true to who you are, then you don't really have to change from year to year.

And one thing I'm wondering about is, you said giving back to the environment, people, profit, all that stuff, can you give us some examples of, because I'm trying to think about it from the production company point of view, what are some of the things they would be looking for? I mean, obviously there's something like living wage would be an example but what else

like maybe volunteering or doing some pro bono work is that it? Yeah that's a really good question I think again the way that the B Corp certifies is they really let you tell the story of how you want to get certified so for us one of the things that helped us get our certification was putting people of color on camera as much as possible right, so really trying to diversify ethnicities on camera and and and not not stick to old standards of film So that was one thing that they really thought that you know, we did well

Another thing this is kind of a minor but just another gave us another couple of points here was just like using rechargeable batteries, right? Like not just tossing out batteries all the time. Like we're really big on our environmental impact. Like how can we do that? So, you know, we, you know, are mostly a digital company. We reuse reusable batteries whenever we can. You know, we try to minimize things like flying, because this is something that I had to learn when I was in the process of getting certified, was like how destructive to the planet flying actually is. And I'm not trying to shame anyone for flying or taking a vacation, but it's like, if we have a shoot,

so we're in Vancouver, let's say we have a shoot in Montreal, instead of me flying out to Montreal to shoot why don't I just contact a shooter in Montreal and Collaborate that way right and so these are things that just help save on you know carbon and emissions and stuff like that so again, it's really up to you to create the pitch And just say like hey, these are the initiatives that we're doing. How do these factor into the certification? I think we're basically there then. I'm going to look into applying because yeah, we, I mean, through this podcast, whenever

we have a shoot in another city, we just use the podcast network to just get it done because I'm not a big fan of taking flights, especially for work. So, and I guess now on that application I'll put to save the environment as well. But. Exactly. There you go. And I think that's a great way to look at certification. It's like, hey, if you just are of that mindset,

it's like, how can we do business in a way that's beneficial to the planet? You're gonna be halfway there, more than halfway there. That's something I was just gonna ask quickly. you're gonna be halfway there, more than halfway there. Absolutely. Is that something I was just gonna ask quickly was, well now that you've gotten the B Corp certification, have you seen that be a part of the conversation with any new leads or current clients that you might have?

Like, is it something that they would mention on their own or is it that they would notice, you know, it's like, hey, we saw that you're doing this and resonate with it. So we wanted to reach out to you. Do you have any of those scenarios or is it more you're actively reaching out to certain companies being like, hey, we got this. We would love to work with you. How has that been like, like post getting the certification? Yeah, so it's a it's a big mixture of both. First of all, I'll say that B Corp is still a relatively new thing in the world. So it hasn't really reached its peak as far as brand recognition yet.

Although that said, it's really growing quite quickly and gaining a lot of traction. I think there are probably a mix, like just to roughly say like 50% of the companies that look at hiring us do know what a B Corp certification is. And again, going back to the fact that because we work with healthcare brands, environmental brands, social impact brands, a lot of them are already in the know about what a B Corp is.

So in that regard, it does help us close those deals. And that was honestly a big part of why we did is because we wanted that extra certification. We wanted that extra brand recognition that we're not just a video company, we're like certified by a third party. So when we work with brands that are focused on good for the planet themselves, yeah, they definitely look highly upon the B Corp certification. If we do have clients that maybe aren't necessarily, that's not their mandate or part of their brand,

there's a little bit of education happening that we need to say, hey, like, you know, we're B Corp, do you know what a B Corp is? No, what is it? And then we talk to them about it, and then that's really good for them. Well, one thing I'm wondering is, I want to take it back to Nisha's a little bit, because you're focusing on two industries, tech and health care.

But they're both pretty big industries. So I'm wondering, like, if you're doing, when you do outreach, like, how do you kind of narrow your focus on the types of companies you want to collaborate with? I know you mentioned B Corp, but it's still like a young things. And I think you mentioned like 50% of them might not know what it is. So you still have to do some education. So how do you still like narrow down your focus on what kind of leads you want to target? target? So we really like to focus, like narrow our focus based on, again, I hate to say this, but it's like past work that we've done. If we can really show a good

case study, then we're gonna lead with a case study, right? And even if we're gonna go after a company that we don't necessarily have a completely identical case study for, we might go have a similar case study to say, hey, we did like a testimonial video and there was, it was a lot of success and it looked really good and this is how it came across. So yeah, I think case studies are really, really strong selling points. I think at the end of the day, like we're doing art, right? And art is subjective. So it's hard for us to say,

hey, we're gonna make a super creative video. At the end of the day, our clients, they don't value creativity as much as they value the results. Creativity is just a means to an end. So you have to lead with the fact that you can get results. And so one of the things that we do at Up Media is that we're just, you know, we're a really

strong and solid company, but we're really big on showing what we've done. Like we've won several awards, we have a lot of recognition, we have different certifications, so we just lead with that. We say, by the way, before we even get into like what kind of video we're going to do for you, here's the success that we've had. And I think that that's one of the ways that we can lead and we can start with a really strong approach to some of these clients. Then I guess, well, actually, you mentioned something that I wanted to explore a bit, which was case studies, right?

I'm just curious, like, what do do you because like what our case studies? I'll usually just include like some technical details about the project, you know Like how long it took what the ask was how long go and then you know the goal all that stuff Maybe a budget range and whatnot. I'm curious like what what do you include in your case studies? Yeah, it's very similar in our case studies, you know, we involve details about the project, what went into it, how we strive to meet the client's goal. I think that in and of itself can be a really solid case study. At the end of the day, clients just want to know that you can do the job right. They want to know that you can do the job well. If you hire someone to build your house or something, they wanna know that you can build a house

that's not gonna fall over. It's the same thing, right? So your case studies don't need to say, hey, we 10x your sales and all this stuff. I think if you've had that kind of success and you can demonstrate a good ROI, that's important, but it's not critical. What's critical is to show that you can achieve the goal

that the client is looking for. And especially in timelines, I've noticed whenever we are showing case studies, the biggest question typically our clients or leads ask is how long will it take to put it together? And then that way you can kind of break it down by each phase of the process. Like pre-production could maybe take one to two weeks,

three weeks, four weeks. Production will be one to two days, two to three days, whatever it might be. And then post-production, again, you can then communicate that that way. Before you start, you give them a very good estimate on what the timeline is gonna be so that they can make plans in their marketing calendar

for like when the video will be ready, when they can start pushing ads or when they could start using it, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Clients wanna know that you can meet the deadline. Ultimately, again, it comes back to that they wanna know that you can do the job right, right? So when you're pitching to a client,

what's your story that you're telling them? What's your success story that you're telling them about yourself, right? Like, and we try to incorporate that into our pitch. And so one of the things that we do is, you know, we just have a very well fleshed out proposal, right? So, which we don't send until we're really, really clear on what the client wants, what they need,

what their budget is, finding all that, and then tailor fitting a proposal. We like to go above and beyond on that, because a lot of people will just send a quote in an email, just a couple numbers in an email. We don't do that. We're gonna sit down and we're gonna go through like a whole presentation deck that says,

hey, here's how we got started, here's the stages of production, like you were saying, this is what's involved in pre-production, this is what's involved in production, this is what's involved in pre-production, this is what's involved in production, this is what's involved in post-production, and we outline like, hey, these are all the things that we're gonna do for you, and then we talk about our success cases,

and we show examples, and it's just testimonials. So it's really, we're painting this huge, beautiful picture about how we're gonna go to bat for you, and we're gonna like, you know, this is like a Hollywood-level production that we're gonna do for you, for your 30 second video, right? Like we just try to really prove to them that we are without question the best person that they can go to. And we just find that's really helpful at the end of the day.

Do you find though that sometimes, because it sounds like you really want to get as much information as possible before you present your proposal, but like I've personally found sometimes you got to be like quick and like quickly send it to them because you know they might just go with someone else. So have you found yourself kind of like just cutting back a little bit and just sending it earlier just to make sure you might close up? No you stuck to your guns then huh? Yeah you know I'm not going to let a client tell me how to do my job, right? I'm not gonna let them

dictate our quality so part of us doing great quality video or Part of us doing a great quality proposal is how we're gonna do the video So if they want you to just rush the quote out You might as well say hey just rush the video out, but they don't want us to rush the video out, right? They want us to take our time and do a really good quote. Of course, they don't want it to take forever, but what I'm trying to say is the proposal process is us showing them how much effort and time and care

we're gonna put into the project, even at the proposal stage. So if they want us to rush that, just the answer is no. We're gonna take our time. Now we're not gonna, a proposal review is only like 20 minutes. It's not that long. It's not hours and hours and hours,

but it's like if they just say, hey, can you just hurry up? The answer is no, because we wanna do a great job and we wanna show you. And if you don't want a high quality company to pitch, then we're not for you. So in a way, like you're not, just to kind of clarify for the audience, that it's like, when you're saying

you're taking your time, it doesn't mean that you're gonna spend like a week on an initial proposal or something like that, you might spend like a day or half a day, like just to kind of like really think about it, talk to your team and see what realistically you can do. It's like, which is, which honestly is a reasonable approach and most leads will do that It's pretty rare where they will be like I need this quote in the next 10 minutes, you know

No, it's that's not what I meant. I meant more so like Because I've never had a lead brush me for it But I know that they're talking to other people at the same time, right? So I try to make sure I'm as fast I try to make sure I get it to them as fast as possible because from my experience I've noticed that whoever gets their foot in the door first or if you're part of that two to three people, they'll probably just look at that. If not, whoever else comes in later, they might have already made a decision, right? So I'm just wondering if you kind of factored that into your your process right? I think

you're both bringing up really good points like you don't want to take too too long you don't want to come back to them a week later yeah you're gonna miss the boat but you but it doesn't take a long time let me make sure that's clear for the client it feels like a fast turnaround like we can get that proposal over to you in the same week that the request for video came in. They request on a Monday, by like Wednesday, you should be ready to go.

It doesn't take, it takes maybe a couple hours to talk it over with your team, write the proposal, and what really helps is to actually create a templated proposal so that you just go in and plug in the numbers, tailor fit a couple of pages. Shouldn't take that long. But it should look to the client like, wow, you spent all week on this. But really, you only spent an hour on it.

But that's the first thing. Second thing, Dario, to your point, if the client is coming to you and they're in a rush for video, we just don't really attract those kind of clients that often. It's just the quality of lead. If you're dealing with someone that's just like, hey, I just need this video right now, like don't even bother. No, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying.

Like there's no indication that they're on a rush. I just assume that they're gonna look at the first three people and, you know, if you give it to them like a couple of days later, they might've already like chosen their person. Right. So I try to like do it either sometimes same day or like next morning type of thing, just to make sure it's like, make it a priority.

It's and that's, that's essentially how it should be. Like when you get a lead in, you shouldn't, you should treat that as like a, a potential new business, uh, that can come in within like a day. So like, I think a good average rule of thumb is to try to get it done for the next day at the very least so that you can at least kind of keep things going because as more and more leads start coming through you can start kind of seeing what sticks with with other ones. And like you said when you have like a templated kind of initial proposal you know like with your processes who you are as a business, some general case studies for all the projects you've done,

you can easily start plugging in exactly, you know, like a really good proposal once you've talked to your team. That seems tailor-made to the client. I mean, it is tailor-made, you know, obviously, you change a couple things, you adjust the estimate, you adjust like what the asks are, the whys, the whats, the hows, that's the stuff that usually takes the most amount of time.

And then picking out the right case studies. Like for example, we have a case study pre-made for every single project that we have ever done. That we know is like in terms of like a variety. So they're always ready to go. Like I remember we first did that a few years ago and Dario and I sat down and just And just made them all made sure that we had all the information that we needed So sometimes like if anytime Dario has like a quick proposal that needs to be made He just knows exactly where where those case studies are for what industry it was for what type of video it was He just grabs them and then puts them in and that saves hours, right just to have

Assets like that already pre-made. I love that. I love that. So what do you guys put in your case studies? Like, ours are very simple at the moment. I actually wanted to rework them. That's why I asked you about the case studies. Ours just have basically what the client asked was, what we delivered, the timeline we delivered

it in. We used to have like a budget range, but I noticed that that might cause some issues, especially when you're coding on a project. So I removed that. And then we have obviously the video examples. And then I also have a section that talks about like what what elements of this we're gonna be incorporating into their video because sometimes it's not like you mentioned like it's like same industry but

different type of client so I figured that because sometimes they're not creative they might not understand why I'm showing them this one so I'll say we're gonna grab this element from this video and it'll be part of this part of your video. And that's it. They're very simple. I try to keep them on one page. But I think one cool thing we could probably

start doing, Kirill, is including a secondary page where we can have like BTS pictures from the project and maybe even like a BTS video. That could also be really cool. Yeah, like it all depends on what assets you have available for all those different projects and you're always trying to figure out different ways to kind of showcase and like a little bit of a peek behind the scenes and definitely incorporating some behind the scenes is a good way to kind of do that. We started doing, sorry go ahead Kirill, I'll say it after. Yeah, like you want to try to show as much transparency in like a little bit of the behind

the scenes. You show what the project was, you know, like I think Dario has a good point, like showing like some behind the scenes specific to those projects can give at least a bit of a comfort of what might be involved, what kind of people, how involved people will be. Because sometimes clients might also think they see a video, they don't know what goes into.

What went on behind it. A video, yeah, there's like, oh yeah, that should take two seconds. But then when they see the behind the scenes and sees all the lighting, all the setup, all the crew, it's like, oh, okay. So that's not something that could just cross like, that's what I'm paying for. It's not just the video. It's like, there's a lot of, a lot of resources and manpower that go into, into these projects.

And it's a good, it's a good idea. Another thing we're, one thing we started doing this year is every project we do, we're, we're trying to grab BTS content of and I'm not just talking about like pictures like we actually grab like BTS video and the way we've done it Is with the DJI pocket 3 it's so it's so awesome for that type of stuff and We want it like my goal is to have like one BTS video per project that we do this year and

Actually, I saw Ryan Spanger's video on On LinkedIn earlier today, and I really liked how he also Talks in front of the camera about what the project is while they're on set doing it and then Yeah, and then he also has his client talk About it, and I was like oh that's great that so going forward here we got to start incorporating that too. I've been wanting to do something like that at one point the only problem when we have that is like if you start to focus a lot on also

the BTS you need someone that kind of takes lead on that because it's its own it's its own video that you're also doing, right? Like if you're having the main, the director, the DP and the main shooters who are like or crew that are focusing on actually delivering the video for the client, it's going to be hard to focus on also trying to capture the behind the scenes element. You almost need like someone who's just the air that's just focusing on that part of it, you know, because then it's a whole different deliverable. It's such good marketing content that I feel like... That's what I'm saying, we need to get another person

that can focus on that is what I'm saying. That's a great place to get an intern. That's what I was gonna, yeah, like a PA can do it. Right, like someone that just wants to get better at video or photography or whatever, like this is a perfect place for them to just go shoot and play around and get better. So intern for that one for sure. And you know what I noticed he did, Ryan,

what he did was he, his episode is great by the way, for those listening, it's a dream engine episode. So make sure you go check that out. One thing he did, I think for the shots where he was talking to the camera, I, I could be wrong, but I think it's basically the setup they were going to use for the talent. They just went in front and just spoke to the camera.

I think that's, that's how I would have done it. So it doesn't really take up too much time because you're basically just hopping in for a second, grabbing some content. That's it. Yeah. If you can, if you can find, find time in the schedule or if you do it at lunch or something, something really quick, in between the actual filming that you've budgeted. Because you also want to be respectful for the client, you also don't want to eat up

the time that they're paying for. So there's a little things like that you need to consider. So finding either at the end of the shoot or during a break or something like that is usually good. Or when you're setting up. I've seen a lot of BTS content where people kind of do a little talking points when they're setting up shots typically.

And then it's a little bit more raw kind of approach. There's always time. I feel like you could always find five minutes, right? Yeah, yeah. As long as you're being respectful is all I'm saying for the client because you just don't want to, you also just don't want to take up too much of their time, right? It's great content for them too because when you post it, like you can tag the client in it and they can see themselves also. Like it's great content for them. I think, you know, at the end of the day, we're storytellers, so we gotta remember to tell our own story too.

Yeah, that's one of our goals this year, is to try to do a little bit more of that. Like we're starting small right now. We just wrapped up like a second mini BTS video, but kind of like just doing little short ones that are just under 60 seconds, just to showcase a little bit of like what the behind the scenes shots look like,

and then with our actual, and what the actual shot looks like like what the behind the scenes shots look like, and then with our actual, and what the actual shot looks like behind that, behind the scenes there. And it, it, they're nice little clips that we can, that is easy to do, and you can share across all your platforms. So we're just starting off small like that, getting into the habit of it,

and then we can start incorporating more elements into it. Yeah, and I find that you gotta, with stuff like this, you gotta do it consistently, and often, because that's the only way you'll really get better into it. Yeah, and I find that you gotta, with stuff like this you gotta do it consistently and often because that's the only way you'll really get better at it. Like I noticed with this podcast, this year we started doing like a lot of episodes, a lot of episodes. You guys have no, you guys listening have no idea

how many, I have like 10 episodes stocked up, I gotta go through and whatnot. But I noticed like posting every day, like I've started to notice like, okay, better ways of going about posting. And that wouldn't have happened if I was doing it like once a week or once every two weeks. It's only after I started doing it consistently that I noticed better ways to become more efficient and effective. So I guess it's gonna be the same thing

with this stuff, right? Yeah, we're slowly testing it out now and then we'll start posting more and more. And then also once you start doing more and more projects, you start getting more BTS content, then you have more stuff to work with, right? Actually, Anthony, do you do any kind of other promotions that you do aside from just directly with the clients,

like any kind of, in terms of networking and active outreach? Because that's another thing a lot of companies are trying to figure out, production companies, is how do you go out and try to drum up new business aside from just what comes in, right? Yeah, that is the million dollar question, is how do you get new leads? What's the most effective way to go about it?

You know, all video, most video production companies are really looking for, you know, how they can grow their leads and that's, you know, sales solves every problem in your business. So, you know, you got to keep that funnel full. I think one of the things that we've done over the years is we do do networking. We've had times where we do like networking in person on and off. I haven't done that as much in recent years. But just kind of getting back into that again.

Personal networking, showing up in person once in a while is good. Another big one is social media. So I think it's good as a business, as a video production company to be on social media and use it to attract clients. So if you're B2C, Facebook and Instagram is probably the best place for you to be

because that's where your new client prospects are gonna be. If you're B2B, then LinkedIn is where you wanna be because that's where you're gonna be meeting marketing managers and owners and founders and that kind of thing. So we do a lot on LinkedIn and that's another place to network

even though it's more digital. Those are kind of the two main funnels and yeah. Nice, so you said like now you're kind of jumping back into networking a little bit more and doing more stuff in person. Um, do you kind of look for different networking events or different kind of industry events based on your two niches? Like, do you look for like healthcare and tech, um, organizations that like run monthly or quarterly events that you can attend and like make connections with?

Yeah, definitely. I think you want to be mindful about where you're going if you want to do networking and try to meet business owners that are in the niche that you want to work with. So for us, yeah, definitely going to like tech meetups are really fun. Can meet a lot of interesting people there. Digital marketing meetups, you know, which is great

because we work with a lot of tech companies and people in the internet space. For us, because we're a B Corp, we go to B Corp Networking as well. Most B Corps now will have, or sorry, most major cities will have a B Corp Local, it's called B Local. I don't know, you know, what cities people are tuning in from,

but for us in Vancouver, there's a lot of, there's events for B Corps and people who are kind of similar to B Corps or into environmentally sustainable businesses, those kind of things are where you will thrive if that's what you're focused on. where you will thrive if that's what you're focused on. Talking about networking, it seems like you might be good at networking, so I'm just curious, what tips do you have

for people to start doing that, and maybe tips on like types of conversations you can start? Okay, so big networking tip is don't go there and try to sell your video Okay, because this is not gonna work very well and you're just gonna come off the wrong way and it probably makes you feel uncomfortable doing it so Go there knowing who you want to meet and go there with an attention of like hey I want to meet this person and that's just a way better pitch because then when you meet people you go hey

Do you know anybody that happens to work in marketing in the healthcare space? I'm looking to connect with like-minded people in that industry. Do you know anyone that works in the athletic or health tech space? I'm trying to meet people like that. If you go in there with an agenda of, hey, I want to meet these type of people, it's a way easier approach to go with than like, hey, I'm looking these type of people, it's a way easier approach to go with than like hey, I'm looking for people to buy my video. You know, that way people who maybe aren't looking

to get a video right now, or maybe are your ideal clients, they can now rally to help you because they're like, oh, I actually have a cousin that works in the healthcare space, or I have a colleague that works in the healthcare space, or my wife works in healthcare space. So then they can like, you know, set up connection. They can work with you instead of being like,

hey, are you looking for a video? No, okay, bye. Right, it's just so basic. So you wanna try to really focus on what's the intention? Like who do you wanna meet? And in order to do that, you have to really know who's your ideal client and who's your ideal industry. And then you can go to a network event

and you can walk away with like 10 or 15 people who might give you the referrals that you're looking for. Yeah, and it's like shooting darts at a dartboard if you're trying to get a sale at a networking event, typically, because it's very rare that, maybe not rare, but it's more often unlikely that you're gonna find someone that needs a video right at that second or within the next coming week and only looking for those types of

connections, you're kind of wasting your time a little bit in the potential of what can happen, of like who you can talk to and you put it brilliantly where finding the right kind of people in the industry or the types of companies that you're trying to target at least can help make introductions and be on the radar for people. Because sometimes that's where you wanna be. You just wanna be on people's radar

and then once you make a LinkedIn connection, if you're really good with your LinkedIn marketing and posting constantly, then you can be more top of mind for those people over time. And then say two months, three months, four months down the road, they see you're very active. They see you're working really well through your LinkedIn posts.

And then it's like, yeah, we actually finally need a video. You know, I'm glad that we met. Let's chat more. I find trying to go from a more genuinely curious and non-selling perspective helps foster better connections over time, over the long term. Yeah, so I totally agree with that. Another big tip for networking is like,

go there to create reciprocity. Go there to just be of service. Like, who can I help, right? Like, just go there and help people out. If you do that, people are gonna like you and you're gonna create reciprocity in that they're gonna want to work together with you because you didn't try to sell them a video right away.

You know, you were of service to them. If they know someone, they're gonna be more likely to wanna be of service to you. So you have to really think long term when you're doing networking. It's like just build relationships, create friendships, and build reciprocity, and that is gonna turn around. Might be like six months from now,

might be three months from now, might be a year from now, but it would be worth it if you ended up getting a sale out of that because you just went in to help someone. What do you mean by reciprocity? Like doing pro bono stuff for like the people you meet or? What I mean by reciprocity is like, just go in wanting to help people, right? Like don't go in there trying to take,

go in there trying to give. So how you ever you do that is up to you. It doesn't have to be like, hey, I'm gonna go give you everyone a free video. That's not what I mean. I just mean like go in there with a serving mentality and a helpful mentality. By doing that, you will automatically create reciprocity

and people are gonna look at you as someone that's helpful and they're gonna wanna help you back. Yeah, one good example of that, during like the height of the pandemic, like one of the big things a lot of people needed to do was obviously do these types of like video calls, like that's where everyone was meeting at that point, right? And one of the biggest challenges a lot of people had

was that they only had their laptops, they didn't have good mics, they didn't have good lighting or anything like that. So anytime I went into networking and I was chatting with people, I was always trying to give just little tips people can do to kind of like bring the production quality of their video calls up a little bit, right?

I tell them like, you know, if you don't have any money here, some little things you can do to kind of like improve it, you know, that maybe you might not know, you know, something that we've done through experience. If you want to kind of elevate yourself a little bit where you get a slightly better microphone or something like that,

I would send them links to things that can help them. And people responded very well to that. So there's definitely something to be said about like, at least trying to help them in some way, like give suggestions or tips, or if they have questions about video that they're like thinking about, try to be helpful, not selling, right?

Yeah, I still do that to this day at a networking event. or thinking about, try to be helpful, not selling, right? Yeah, I still do that to this day at a networking event. It might not be how to have better lighting on Zoom or necessarily or whatever, but how can I help you? If you're gonna try to shoot your own video, instead of me coming and being like, no, no, no, hire me, I'm gonna come up to you and be like, what help do you need? What camera are you using? Let me help, right? Because here's what's gonna happen is to you and be like, what help do you need? Like, what camera are you using? Like, you know, let me help.

Right, because here's what's gonna happen, is they're gonna appreciate that, they're gonna feel empowered by that, and one of two things might happen. One, they might shoot their video and be like, oh, this is terrible, I need to hire someone. I'm gonna hire the person that was willing to help me. Or B, if someone comes along in their network and goes,

hey, I really need a video expert, oh, this guy helped me out with my lighting and get a better camera talk to him Right. So yeah, just again, that's what I'm saying about reciprocity is go and be willing to help give free tips if I you have to give a free video but like give free tips be willing to help people who aren't ready yet to buy your services and You'll see like you can have some some really cool stuff can come out of that Like being a problem solver essentially immediately. That's what you become in that person's out of that. Like being a problem solver essentially,

immediately that's what you become in that person's mind is you're a problem solver, however small, it can go such a long way. So it's almost like low effort for high reward kind of approach, right? But the right kind of effort, you know, in terms of what you're providing other people. Yeah.

I like it. Let's talk about AI. Are you using that in your business? What are your thoughts on it? Yeah, so let's talk about AI. So AI right now is definitely growing and sort of taking over all areas of business. I believe it's gonna be just absolutely critical

in the future. I think right now, as far as AI in video, and probably for the next couple of years, AI is going to replace the bottom of the market. So the easiest to put out videos, that's what it's gonna take over, right? And it's not a huge threat to us. I think that now would be a really good time

for all video production companies to learn how to use AI video, take advantage of this AI revolution, and then include that in your offering. Because AI will get more sophisticated and it will start to take over more and more sections of the market. It's gonna start from the bottom and work its way up.

But it's always gonna be best if it's got that human component. And a person that can say, hey, like, you know, really customize the AI video to help specific brands. So I'm just starting to adopt it myself. I'm still in a very experimental stage where I'm finding that a lot of what I'm trying to create with AI video is just not that good quality.

You know, it's kind of an equivalent of maybe replacing a lot of stock video. You know, like stock video, how much of your video that you put out includes stock video? Probably 10% or less, right? Whereas a lot of it, you need to get those custom interviews, you need to get that custom B-roll, right? So it's kind of an equivalent of stock video at this point.

It will evolve and it will get better, but I think that is, if you truly, truly wanna help your clients, let's leverage it. Let's not hate it and be afraid of it. Yeah, I completely agree. I like what you mentioned though, how it's gonna affect the, what was it, the low tier videos?

The bottom tier, yeah, sorry. The bottom of the market tier projects, which you know that classic saying now that people are, the barriers to entry are almost like non-existent. You know, it's very easy for people to kind of jump into the industry, which is still true and AI kind of makes that even easier, but it almost makes it difficult on the other side

because it's harder to stand out as a result because if it's almost like if everyone has a phone now you know it's like okay I have a phone now and I can talk to anyone anywhere but it's like oh but I have a satellite phone that can help you talk to someone on the moon or whatever right like I'm trying to kind of like just show where it's like because now everyone can do that with AI and it's such an accessible tool, how are you gonna enter the market and provide something different, at least in the lower tier kind of realm otherwise, right?

So now it's almost like kind of like coming full circle or it's getting harder again to jump into the industry because of how easy it is. Yeah, totally. Another thing about AI video is that AI video is always going to be an applied skill. It's a skill to create AI video. Right? It doesn't matter how good video AI can create, you still need to know how to create good video and you still need to discern what is good AI video versus what is crap. Right? And so...

That might get blurred. That might get blurred in the future, because now you gotta be good at prompting, but it could get to the point within a couple of years where even with a basic prompt, it could kind of get very close to what you want, right? Versus now. Yeah, I mean, we'll see, right? Time will tell, but I think the thing

that we all have to be mindful of is that, you know, companies are not going to necessarily be able to replace video producers with AI because they would need to go and spend the time to learn how to prompt, to learn what's good storytelling, to learn what's strong visually, where to use wide shots, where to use close-up shots, where to use depth of field, all of that kind of stuff. So I think that it's a long way to go, and I think that the skill is a thing we have to be cognizant of, is that to do good AI,

and that's something that I'm discovering right now, it actually takes a lot of time and a lot of work. But at the same time, I think that it's going to allow a lot of us video creators to create really cool stuff that maybe we couldn't create before. So as long as we can spend the time to learn it and leverage it, we can actually supply really, really high quality AI video to our clients. I think also with corporate, the thing is a lot, and you mentioned this before, a lot of the stuff we have to get, you mentioned like stock footage is only like 10% of what?

footage we use right it's kind of be the it's gonna be a similar thing with AI because Like we have a lot of times you have to go in and get those interviews. You can't really create an AI Version of that person talking it's not gonna be mean, there's gonna be legal complications for sure. So I think a lot of companies are just gonna flat out say, no, this has to be actually shot. And a lot of their machinery or whatever their office is and stuff, you can't really replicate that with a program that doesn't know anything about that office, right?

So it seems like it's just gonna be a tool for us to create better and stronger videos, right? Like for example, if you did an interview and then they miss, you know, they didn't say that word, right? They, they, you know, they have like a raspy voice at that specific moment or they coughed or they looked away. We could probably use AI to fix fumbles like that, right? Like it'll be useful in those situations, maybe even creating certain scenes, but for the most part, like they can't really get rid

of us just yet. I think it's just gonna be like the bottom tier of video people are just gonna have a harder time. And to add to that, when you think about it, a corporation or a company is not gonna spend marketing dollars on a video and also like someone in their company to try to make AI video, you know, to save money on actually producing the video itself.

Cause if they're gonna start putting money behind marketing this content, like they're gonna wanna also put it behind people that are experts and people that have track records, right? Like it's, they're not gonna go to their marketing team and be like, can you figure out how to make an AI video and then we can pump like 10, $15,000 into ad spend for it, you know? It's, like, it's-

They're gonna try, but it's not gonna work in the long term, and it can be more expensive. Yeah. I think there's definitely a percentage that will do it, for sure. Yeah, and that's when they're gonna find out that AI is not just like a magic genie that pumps you out an amazing video.

They're gonna do it and go like, oh, this sucks. How do all the good people do it? Right, and this is what I'm saying. Like, this is why AI is really a skill, that you have to learn how to do it. And what I'm learning right now is like, good AI comes from good photography, right? Good film comes from good photography, right?

So they're called like the director of photography. It's because you have to understand what makes good photography. And if someone is trying to create AI video and they don't know that, they're not a film expert, guess what, they're just gonna have a bunch of crappy AI. And it's gonna be, again, it's gonna be decent for very, very low level content.

But that's it. Yeah. I find the one realm where that tool is helpful sometimes is like for projects that are like a little bit more low budget and like say for example you record at an event or something, an audio, you record like a little mini interview in a very noisy space. Sometimes the audio editing tools can actually help fix things a little bit to make it sound a bit better without you spending as much time on it. So it is, we're already seeing now in its early stages

of how it can make things a little bit more efficient in certain kinds of projects. That way you don't have to spend as much time on working on those projects. Especially if there's like an issue, as Dario mentioned, if like someone fumbled, if there was a noise, a bang, or something that's in the background that you wanna kinda get rid of,

it is useful in that sense. Or even on the camera, it'll be good. But I think another thing it'll also help with is probably helping to bring the cost of productions down. Because think about it like this, excuse me, I think positions like makeup, audio ops, voiceover actors, those are going to become like those people are going to have a really hard time because there'll be AI tech that'll be able to take over those positions and on their end that sucks, but on our end,

it'll bring our cost down. And then as a result, we can charge less of the clients. So they'll be more willing to maybe hire us for that project. So that could be like a indirect benefit for production companies. It's like a two-edged sword. It's unfortunate that it's happening, but it is going to make things a little bit more efficient. Um, I see it happening more now with the first group that is directly being affected is the voiceover artists.

Because, what is it? Programs like Artlist and other websites like those are starting to integrate it. Voices.com. Yeah, voices.com. No, voices.com is where you hire actual voiceover artists. But who was talking about how, I think it was on voices. They said that now these voiceover artists

are offering like AI versions of their voice. So you still, they still get a percentage of the cost, like of the money, but it's like a lot less than if you hired them directly. It was, I don't know who brought it up on this conversation or during the podcast. It might've been mentioned during a pre-interview, yeah I don't remember that on an episode but I see it right now like an art list and it's being marketed like crazy on all other

internet searches you know if your algorithm is very video production focused I keep seeing it's like what if your voice sounded like an old man or a nice young child or just a little bubbly girl. Like, you know, they keep changing it, you know, it's like, it's still in its early stages, but like it can help. I heard someone hired a voiceover artist for a project and the client and them were not 100% happy with it.

So then they fed it into one of those AI voices and then it spat out something even better. And then they ended up using that as the final cut for the video. I was like, wow, okay, so it's getting there now. That's the first group that's being affected directly, I think, right now. Yeah, yeah, I just think it's really important

that we really stay on top of it and understand it and learn it and not hide from it because I would rather see all video production companies being like offering it than not like competing with it. Yeah. Or know how to use it essentially to help deliver better results and be more efficient for clients, right?

Yeah. And it's at a good point, right? It's at a good stage right now because there seems to be a sort of resistance to it from production people. So if you kind of let your client know about it and educate them on it, then next time it does come up in their conversations or in their initiatives, they'll just associate you to it. So they'll think of you, they'll reach out to you directly. Right? So that's another benefit of it. And that's why I think, you know, video producers and content creators need to learn to be the go-to for AI video, right? Because again, just to kind of compare it loosely to stock video,

you know, if someone comes and says, hey, can you just make me a whole video out of stock video, it's going to be, you can say, yeah, I can do that, but that's gonna be a very low quality video, even if I'm using like amazing cinematic art grid video, what's missing? A whole bunch of stuff, right? And so it's the same thing, it's like, you know, we need to be the ones choosing to supplement it and say when and where it should be good, versus relying on someone who doesn't really know

anything about film and storytelling to try to leverage AI and just make a really crappy video but maybe they don't know because they're like it's AI video maybe it's good right so we're always gonna have good storytellers yeah yeah we're just past a one-hour mark so we can start to close the conversation off but I was just wondering like what's what's next for you and your company? We didn't really talk too much about, like, you know, how many employees you got, like, and all that stuff.

But yeah, just tell us a little bit about, like, what your vision for your company's future is. Yeah, well, I mean, to be honest, the AI conversation is really a big focus for us right now, is how do we leverage it to tell better stories, right? How do we not leverage it? How do we know when to say no? I think so what's next for media is just constantly evolving, constantly improving our processes. Our company, as I said in the very beginning in my backstory, we

also offer animation. So learning to supplement AI animation, just wanting to learn how we can leverage technology to offer the best to our clients. That is the big focus, and that's what we're moving toward and excited. You mentioned operations. Like what are you trying to fix on the operations side? On the operation side? On the operation side. Or maybe everything's good, I don't know.

Maybe I shouldn't have used fixed. It's all on the up and up and up media. I think there's always areas to improve. I mean, I think when it comes to the operation side, areas for improvement are really like, you know, CRM and back-end organization. How can we ensure projects are moving along seamlessly? I think one of the things that we, you know, have challenges with is, you know, sometimes

when we're working with larger companies, you know, they are in a hurry to get their video but they have so much internal processes going on in a marketing campaign, aside from their video, that sometimes it's harder to keep the project on track. So just learning to have better communication standards with our clients, using a CRM to track each stage of production better. Those kind of things just really help

make the whole production more seamless and move it along quicker and that gives us a better experience of work and that gives the client a better end product experience as well. Speaking of keeping your projects on track, like what do you like you mentioned communication and everything with the client but how do you kind of like overcome that obstacles? Cause we've had that happen a couple of times where like projects just completely got derailed and not in terms of like more work for us,

it's just in terms of like timeline, it just got way extended past what we were expecting. Yeah, so if you're a video agency or a video production company and you've been in business for a while You are going to encounter clients that just put long awkward pauses on the production. It just happens Yeah a lot. And so what you need to do is you have to have measurements in place to prevent that from happening and Even though it's out of your control

How we go about it is we actually penalize the client for it. So if the client will delay a project for a month beyond what the actual deadline for the project is, we start charging them additional. It's a small charge, but we charge them. And what happens then is that becomes a deterrent because now they start to accrue Extra cost because of their delays and we're very upfront about it. We're very clear about it at the onset

we let them know that they're approaching the point where this might happen and that this happened once or twice last year and We were so good at communicating it that when the client came to us and said, hey, we understand we're like three months behind, just let us know what the extra cost is. Wasn't an issue, wasn't a conflict, it was just like, you know, they know that this is how we operate.

So you have to deter the client from doing that and if they are gonna do that, it is a waste of your time as a video creator because now you're just pausing things. And what clients don't understand too is that from a creativity perspective, if the project is dead for like three, four months, you lose your creative momentum.

And we're creatives and we have the right to have that creative momentum because that's our creative genius. And if you kill that, it's hard to pick it back up again and wanna pick it back up again. So we just let the client know at the onset, we have very strict standards like, hey, you need to get back to us within three days with your revisions. If you decide to go on a vacation and pause the project, it's going to cost you extra.

Yeah. Interesting. And the one unfortunate thing that might happen even sometimes is when clients take forever to get back to you on something, it's like you deliver the first draft and then they don't give you feedback, say for as an example, for like two, three months, then they do, you give them another draft

and then all of a sudden it's another three months. Like it almost becomes like, like not that you resent the project, but it's like you're not gonna enjoy working on it as well. And it puts like a bad experience for us working with that client. It's like, okay, like, I mean, we created a good video, but like it's taking forever to actually get it completed

because you know, you have to always be in limbo for it. So I find all the most experienced production companies like have some kind of way to deter that and to kind of like help keep projects on track. And having a small cost like that, it's like, it almost becomes like a nuisance because then also like if like a department in a company has to explain to their higher ups, it's like,

oh, sorry that we had to incur that extra cost because we were slow. It's gonna be almost like on them, you know. It is a good deterrent to kind of just keep everyone going on track. Cause you wanna wrap up projects, you wanna put it off to the side and then move on to the next one

where it's like if they take forever, you're working on something and then they're like, hey, now we need this video in the next two days cause that happens all the time. And then it's like, okay, well now I'm basically splitting my focus on the current project that I'm working on versus the one that took forever to get back to us, right? So we're exploring more ideas like that as well. So no, we're not we're not gonna do that. I

Said it's to learn about them. It's like to learn about them. We have that exactly we have we have We don't have a similar thing. What I have in our contracts is basically if it goes past a certain amount of months. Or actually, I think what we have is if it goes past our deadline and it's a client's fault, then I have an out for us if, for example, the editor that we were using is now busy on a project, right? So now they have two options they either got to follow that guy's timeline or they got a

Or if we got to get someone else to finish it like they got to pay extra for that So that's kind of like the out I've put in place because I noticed We ran into this issue where one of the editors got too busy and now they can't handle it. So now it's like, well, they still need to get it done. And I was like, well, I'm not going to pay for it. So I was like, how do we avoid this in the future? Right. So we worked it out with that client, but going forward, I was like, okay, if this happens again, they need to be aware of that. If we got to put someone else on the project, it's going to be an additional cost. Cause with our business, the majority, like we use a

lot of freelancers, especially with our editing. And, um, that's the tricky thing with. We're using freelancers is that they'll get busy with another project. So if the client waited three months longer than they should have, that's, that's a big problem, not just between you and the client client but now you and the freelancer as well, right? so I I don't know I don't know if we can do the penalty is just because I feel like it like I Don't know cuz sometimes things happen on their end and I wouldn't I don't feel comfortable doing it But you're not the first person to bring this up. There's another company

In the States that does a similar thing to bring this up there's another company in the States that does a similar thing but yeah I guess it's something you can do I guess it just depends on your clientele we have a very fair process right so I just checked it up so it's 10% of the project but we don't kick that in until they're a month overdue so here's the deadline right when we hit the deadline we say hey just so you know we're over the deadline we have one month to complete the deadline, we say, hey, just so you know, we're over the deadline. We have one month to complete the project or we're gonna start charging additional. So we give them lots and lots of leeway.

We gave them a month of grace time to warn them that that extra charges are coming. And that's after the project was supposed to be completed. So for us, it works. We're just really transparent about it and honest about it. And like I said, you know, clients understand and when it, the only two times that it happened, they came to us and said, just tell us how much extra it is.

Are you worried that it might like cause you to lose future business with a particular client? No. Okay. I think it's, Dario, I think what you're thinking of it's like you're thinking you might be charging this you know like after the fact or like a little bit later on in the process but he was explaining that he's very honest about it upfront and even early on in the process when they're when they're starting to work with the client it's like hey this is our process this is when it needs to be. This is what happens if we go over it.

So he's very open about it. And I think if a client is gonna go over in that case, it's almost like they've planned it in that case. It's like, okay, we're gonna go over by two months, but we need that time. That cost is fine. We'll budget that in. It's not like it's like a surprise charge that he's doing.

No, I didn't think it was a surprise charge I was just trying to think of like Because from my point of view, it's like it's something that could cause friction between you and the client So like cuz again, I'm more Only causes friction if it hits that they're unaware of it if they've agreed to it and they've been informed of it There's no surprise. They've accepted that that's what's gonna happen and they understand it and they've still been

to some degree negligent of it. So it's really, I understand the concern and like it was a bit maybe awkward for me the first time that we did that, but in order to eliminate any type of awkwardness, we were just really transparent about it. And so, and this goes into a bigger thing, which is that when we go through our contract,

our terms and conditions, is we explain everything upfront. Like, hey, we're, cause we're not big on extra surprise charges. Like I've had clients come to me and said, hey, our last video company said it was going to be this amount of money, now there's all these surprise charges, like we don't want that, and we say,

yeah, we don't want that either. So let me walk you through the project and where there could be some potential charges. So the potential additional charges that you're looking at is if you delay this project a month longer than it's supposed to be, without letting us know upfront that that could happen, then there's a 10%.

Are you okay with that? Yep. Okay. And if you like cancel a shoot, you know, three days before we've agreed, that will charge you for that. Are you okay with that? Yep. So it's just kind of like letting them know that.

And yeah. Do you go, you go through the, the contract with the client before they sign? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I'm doing that later today. Interesting. Okay, I never thought about that. I go through it because there are clauses that are really important and I don't want

to charge them extra. This is not an attempt to gouge more money out of the client. This is trying to prevent them from going off the rails. So we do have one or two triggers in our proposal or our project that will cost extra money. So it's critical that I share that to them upfront so they know 100% because it's all about transparency. That's really smart, I never thought about doing that

because usually I'll send it to them and I'll tell them, let me know what legal says because they'll send it to the lawyers and whatever and then I come back and say, oh, can we change this, can we change that? And then it's usually nothing major. But I never thought about going through it with them. I guess the way I would probably do it,

I don't know if you do this as well, but maybe just create like a separate document outlining like the things that would be important to review rather than just opening up the contract and going page by page because most of it is like a summary typical things right oh yeah it's only a summary I don't go through every clause and see you okay okay through like the big ones once time oh yeah that makes sense And it takes, like, honestly 10 minutes. Okay, so you hop on a- It's really helpful.

You hop like on a video call and you- That's smart. Because I don't trust them to read it. You know, they're busy. They got a million things to do and they're gonna send it to legal anyway. They're not gonna read it. Unless I say, hey, I need 15 minutes of your time.

It only takes 10 minutes. Say, look, 0.3 and 0.5 and 0.8, let's just go through those. And I just walked them through and now they know and now they can't be upset about it Yeah, especially if I yeah Is that when I've had to come back sometimes like there were questions about certain sections that maybe would have been easier to clarify On a call, so that's okay. That makes a lot of sense you know, especially if you a of their podcast on proposals and and and contracts because that's I yeah this is like in my 11 years man I've had every challenge I've had everything happen and

my contracts now are just bulletproof like they handle every possible thing that can happen and again I'm really clear on it and it's all about mitigating any issues and making a smooth production We should swap contracts after this recording just yeah, I said a curiosity But it's speaking about proposals though. I mean, we're going a little bit past our schedule time outro is like the whole cares turn into a whole podcast I love it. Let's keep it going We're booked them for two hours. Anyways, so Let's keep it going. We're booked in for two hours anyways, so

We your proposal the thing I've always struggled with is not making them too long Right because I try to see it from their point of view and it's like if I got a flip through like a million pages I'm gonna get bored to death, right? Do you do you find the same thing like you try to keep yours like? You know not too long, but not too short either? Yeah by the way if you guys go for two hours I'm going to charge you extra I'm just letting you know. Hey that wasn't up front. That wasn't up front. Yeah that's true wasn't in the contract. Yeah proposals so yes that's a really good question. They can't be too long, but they shouldn't be too short. I think that you want to err on the side. Like your contracts should be full though.

Again, they should really tell the whole story of who you are and what you're gonna do for them. So don't be worried about your contract being, sorry, your proposal being. Sorry, proposal. Yeah. Don't be worried about your proposal being too long. Be more worried about it being too short. Because the shorter it is, if it's like one or two pages, it's gonna look less professional.

The longer it is, the more professional. So let's just say your proposal is like 20 pages, okay? If you send them a 20 page proposal, they're not gonna go like, oh my God, it's so long. They're gonna go, oh wow, this is like a really professional company. They've got a lot to say about their process. That means they've been around, like it's impressive. and it's up to the client to decide how much they

want to go through it. But I am a big advocate for like really flesh out your proposals because it just makes you look better and as I said before it shows how much of an artisan you are and how much work you're willing to put in to this client that you're willing to put in to this client that you're willing to put in that much work to even your proposal. And if your proposal looks amazing, the video is going to look amazing. You get really in depth on like you and your company in that proposal because we kept it very minimal because again, I was trying to deal with it not being like 30, 40 pages of

stuff, right? Like I kind of did like, it's minimal stuff to be honest with you. So you kind of, you kind of inset go more- He was trying to bring it down. He was trying to bring it down. There was a period where I was trying to keep it- Cause it was like 30 pages. It was like 30 pages.

That was like- It wasn't 30, it wasn't 30. It was a lot, it was a lot of pages. It was probably 15 to 20, like Anthony was saying. No, no, it was way more than that. What you wanna look through your proposal for and remove is redundancies. If you're saying something twice, you can take it out.

But don't take out stuff that you think the client might not be interested in. Because what if they are? Do you think it might make more sense than maybe to just have like two documents, one that's more about like you and your company and then one that focuses on like the project in a way and then in that you could have like the project details, the case studies and the quote and everything?

He's basically trying to make it longer now with two documents rather than one. I'm like, what happened to making it shorter, Dar? I wouldn't I wouldn't do that because now you're giving them two documents Yeah, give them one and they're in it's like if you're in a book and you're halfway through you're not gonna jump on another Book, you're just gonna finish it. So just like it's all in one place. It's more convenient. I'm like, what are you saying? more convenient. I'm like, what are you saying? Two documents. Make it harder for them, like really hard. This is an open discussion, you know, talking about ideas.

OK, so funny. But yeah, because like the one problem is if you send two documents, they might only send like a part of one to like the other people that they're trying to share it with. And it might not tell the full story. Like the one good thing is when you send one full document, it curates everything for anyone who opens it, it tells them everything they need to know, right? So.

You know what I think the issue is, Kirill, is that we're using Google Slides to create them. So we're like, we got the landscape version of stuff and it kind of like, it's so easy to overpopulate it like quickly versus like if you do like, I don't know, something in InDesign, you can really fill it with information and it not being like 20, 30 pages. No, it's not about what software you're using. I think the key thing that-

No, I mean, it's just like, like on, cause like on Google Slides, it's like you got, you don't have a lot of real estate space to work with. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you do. It's just a matter of how you're organizing yourself, right? It's just, like the key thing is not to overstuff slides because like the one main thing I think Anthony does really well is that he's basically organizing things in a certain way where it's like,

like you said, Anthony, you're keeping all the information in there that is necessary for the client, but you're not also stuffing it all into one or two slides where it's not legible. The key thing is if you take a glance at a slide, is it easy to read? Is it easy to follow?

I think that's like the main thing. If it becomes too difficult for clients to follow, then it doesn't matter how short or how long it is, they're gonna have a hard time understanding what they're looking at. The key thing is keep it as part of the experience, almost as an extension, as you said, Anthony, of the attention and detail you put into the actual video.

If you try to go and rush through the proposal, if you try to rush through trying to stuff everything into one or two slides, then they might start thinking, oh, maybe this is how they also do their videos. I don't know if I want to do this. So it's a very good point on what you're saying in terms of like, that's your first impression, because like the way you go about presenting information

in a still format, like imagine, they'll be thinking like, I don't know how they're going to do it in video. It may not work that well. So, yeah, as long as you're not over stuffing slides with information, I think it's the best approach. That's a good rule of thumb. Then it won't feel too long. As long as it's not redundant,

as long as each slide moves to a different covers, a different point of the story. Cool, and I guess the last thing we'll ask to kind of round things off is like, how did you come up with the name for Up Media? When I was getting incorporated, the movie Up had just come out. And I absolutely fell in love with that movie.

And I don't know, I was so inspired by it. And it just sounded like a cool, you know, it's just so cool. It's like UPS, it's such a simple word. So I was like, up media, that's it. I love it. Based off a Pixar movie. And then, you know, now that you have the B Corp certification, you can just say,

everything's on the up and up, you know? Exactly, exactly. Second company this year that had like a movie related name. We had Savvy Productions who was like, you know, Johnny Depp's character in Savvy. Savvy, the parts of the character. He was inspired. Is that what he's called?

Yeah, he was inspired by, you know, Captain Jack Sparrow saying Savvy. Love that. As soon as he said Jack Sparrow, I'm like, I could hear it. You can't un-hear it after that. No, you can't. It's just like for the next five minutes after the call,

I'm just saying to myself, Seve. That's funny. All right, OK, I think this is a good spot to end it on. We might bring you back just to do like a proposal and contract focused episode proposal talk And let's bring me back in like a year to talk about AI and exactly revolutionize my business Yes, he's gonna be operating here virtually, you know and no longer need to reach out to other people out to other people. I'll send my AI to do it. I was gonna say, send the AI here. Alright guys, so if you want to find Anthony, go to upmedia.video. Yes, okay, sorry, I don't have my glasses on. It's upmedia.video. Can you do that again and I'll be like...

It's a little blind, you know. If you want to find them? Go to upmedia.video and your social media is... I forgot to open that up earlier. Is it the same? It's upmediagram. Upmediagram. Upmediagram? Yeah, because Instagram. Upmediagram.

Upmediagram. Oh. He wanted it to rhyme. Oh, I thought... I thought there was a glitch in the video for a second where like it's like, you know, on Instagram, on Instagram. Oh, he wanted it to rhyme. Oh, I thought there was a glitch in the video for a second where like it skipped like the middle of the word. Yeah just, yeah.

No, but sounds good. Yeah, follow him on there. Adam on LinkedIn at Anthony Madani. And yeah, that's it. It was great episode. I think it was very insightful. Thanks Anthony. I'm glad you came I'm glad we you if you're watching this reach out if you have any questions about anything we've covered and keep watching more of these

awesome podcasts because they are amazing thank you we appreciate that and also if anyone has any ideas for future topics or things they want to hear on these podcasts do let us know in the comments so that We can start exploring some some of your questions as well So yeah, and I guess on that note don't forget to like comment and subscribe Yeah, we haven't been doing that at the end of our podcast for a long I don't know who makes it to the end of these but if you guys are listening, please rate us rate us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

So obviously do five stars, not less than that. Otherwise don't do it at all. But yeah, don't forget to rate us five stars minimum. Be nice, be nice. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Anthony. Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, Anthony. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks for listening to this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Please make sure to follow and engage with us on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube,

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