Creatives Grab Coffee - PITCHING as a PRODUCER | Creatives Grab Coffee 43

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

JOIN OUR PATREON FOR EXCLUSIVE CONTENT: https://www.patreon.com/CreativesGrabCoffeeProduced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.com"Pitching as a Producer" with Ryan Koral from Tell Studios / Studio Sherpas. SUBSCRIBE and FOLLOW for more episodes! Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, a podcast on the business of video production, hosted by Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov from Lapse Productions.SUBSCRIBE 🎧✅ and FOLLOW 📲 for more episodes! https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/

okay another episode everyone welcome to episode 43 of creators grab coffee today we have ryan corral here with us from tell studios and studio sherpas it's actually coral coral it's it's coral oh really corral i asked you your pronunciation you know i mean just felt like before i should have done that too. I should have just stuck with first name, Ryan from... There you go. But what happens when they have also a complicated name, like in my case, you know? There's no chance for anyone. Well, you just butcher and you keep on going. You pretend like there's nothing wrong. That's the only way to do it. Just smile and wave, right? Smile and wave. Anyways, Ryan, welcome to the show. Very happy to have you here.

Glad to be here. Thanks for the invite. So I guess let's just get the intros out of the way. I'm not going to be able to explain who you are and your business better than you, so I'll just pass that over to you right now. Well, I feel like you should give it a shot. I'm just kidding. Yeah, so I started a production business in 2004. I was working at a small, uh, college and convinced them to buy me a video camera and a computer. And that's how I was cutting my teeth and, uh, doing that for, uh, maybe a year or so. And just, uh, I was like,

man, I got, I have to do this full time. And so I left the college and started doing a little bit of everything in the world of video. And then six months in, I filmed a wedding. I was invited by a friend, photographer friend of mine. I had a client that needed a video and they had 500 bucks and I shot this wedding and I was like, oh my gosh, like I felt like for the first time, uh, I could really focus and like niche, uh, with, cause I was doing just a little bit of everything up until that point. And so we built a brand around wedding films for almost a decade and got to travel, do amazing wedding films and, uh, you know, charge, I think as much as like $20,000, uh, for some of the wedding films that we've done actually more than that, but, um, not, not way back then. And, uh,

and then 2012, we launched a corporate brand, a corporate storytelling brands, uh, focus on, uh, brand films. And, uh, that brand today is really called tell it's really called, I'm not going to hold back the name guys. It's really called tell studios. And so that's the name of our production brands. And, uh, I've got a few, uh, full-time employees. We've got a studio near Detroit, Michigan. And then seven years ago, I started educating filmmakers. And that business is called Studio Sherpas. And that's where we just talk about the business production. Sounds like similar to what you guys are doing. What made you jump into like starting also like a,

an education brand as well? Cause it sounds like you started with weddings, then corporate, and then the education side of things, uh, and then to format it as a podcast. Yeah. So the education stuff really started almost all the way at the very beginning. Uh, I, I went to a conference probably a year and a half into running the business and it was a wedding and event filmmaker conference. It was in Vegas. I went and was blown away, you know, just all these amazing speakers. And my mind was just like opened up to so many new ideas and how I could market myself, sell what I was doing, add value to our clients. And really like, it was just like, uh, uh, you know, I didn't go to school

for business. I didn't go to school for video production. So it was like my first like intensive, like with all these sessions. And, and then I also was like, you know, I was on stage for other things before having a business. And so I love having a microphone. I love being on stage. And I just thought, I'm like, how cool would that be to be able to share some of the things that I'm learning? And so I, I got really plugged into our local, we had a local video association here in the Detroit area. I got plugged in there, eventually became the president of that association. And that was all just, um, uh, free, like, right. It was like almost free to attend. It costs like next to nothing to be a part of the association. Our meetings were mostly free and I donated all of my time. And I did that for a bunch of years. And, uh, eventually as our production business was growing,

my team was like, Ryan, you got to stop selling. Like we're just, we're too busy and we just got too much work. And I was like, well, but I'm, I feel like I've got capacity. And it was sort of like serendipitous timing because at that, at that moment, I want, we had two kids and my wife was like, uh, man, like, I love that you're, you know, you love teaching and, you know, being a part of the association and like, you've got just this awesome network of other filmmakers. And I go to events and speak at events and do these different things, but it's all just because I'm so passionate and love it. And we both were like, I was like, man, how cool would it be if I could actually make money doing that too? Right. But I felt a little

guilty because I, I've up until that point, I just, I would do it because I love it. And, uh, anyway, so, uh, my friend Matt Davis and I, uh, were, were on a job together and we both just looked at each other and said, like, what would it look like if we did this thing together and built an education brand and, I mean, the value of what I think I can bring and how I can help people learn in their businesses. That's worth a lot of saved time and resources. So that's really where, I mean, I feel like I've always been teaching and sharing. But in 2016, when my team was like, hey, slow down. And I was like, I don't want to slow down. I want to keep going. I had some capacity.

And I said, all right, this is like this is good timing to launch this new thing. I've never heard of people saying stop being so successful with your selling. It's too much. This is a first on the podcast, I will say. Yeah, yeah. It was a little frustrating, but it's interesting, too, because we just didn't have the infrastructure to handle the more work. And back then, we had a producer who was kind of like our project manager, but not organized enough to be able to handle more stuff. And we, we weren't tapping on a big enough, uh, contractor database to, to be able to help with,

you know, offloading some shoots and offloading some edits. And so it was, it was kind of a bummer, but at the same time, it was good for me because I could start this other business and, uh, do something else that I'm super passionate about. Can you tell us a bit about the transition you did going from being a well-established wedding company to then going into corporate? What was that like and what prompted you to switch? I really, really love weddings. A lot of people are like, dude, not for me or I shot one. It's the worst. If weddings were Monday through Friday from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., I would do them all the time. I just I'm super good at it. I love being with the couple and just in being being like a source of peace for them on this like insane day or this insane weekend.

You know, I love making dumb jokes and getting people just to laugh and elucidate and just to think like, hey, remember. And because I remember my wedding day and it just it goes by so fast and it's hard to be in the moment. And so I feel like I just know that. Right. So I don't want to call myself a counselor, but I feel like on those occasions, like I can come alongside them and just say like, hey, like take a moment, like walk away from everybody and just like take a couple of breaths, look at each other and just be like, this is, this is, this is our day. This is the thing. And just like, think how cool this is. So I just, I love that experience.

But as our kids were getting older and I, you know, dedicated almost a decade of like two or three days a weekend filming weddings. And it was just a lot. And I had a bigger vision for what I wanted out of life. And, uh, as much as I love filming weddings, I was like, I think some things need to change. And I also really loved the pieces that we were creating, the stories that we were telling, and I felt like they were meaningful. And it wasn't until my friend Patrick Moreau. Do you guys know Patrick from Muse Storytelling? I remember Patrick from Muse. Yeah.

Yeah. So he had mentioned to me, he's like, dude, he's like, you know, businesses like they have like powerful stories. The founders, people start businesses because they think that they can change the world. businesses because they think that they can change the world. And so that for me gave me some hope because I didn't care to make a business more money as just like the least of my concerns. But when I started thinking in the context of like, oh, you're right. Like even my story as a business owner, like I want to have an impact in a couple or a family's life and create these legacy pieces and so yeah I guess a founder has a powerful story and so that's we decided we would start telling stories for brands and businesses and slowly and surely we kept charging more and more for wedding films

and getting hired less and less but you know the know, the times that we work, I mean, the last handful of weddings, we've charged like $25,000 for those things, but we might do maybe one every other year. So it's not even like we're doing, we used to do 30 or 40 a year. And, you know, today we do, I don't even know if we have one on the books for this year, but we did one last year.

It's the first one that I had filmed in like four years, uh, as in New York. And it was for, for a past client of ours and like 25,000 bucks. And it was like, where's it? So that's kind of this transition. Um, yeah. Once, once you get into the volume side of like weddings, that's when time gets eaten up like crazy. So, uh, I, I do feel, I do see what see what you mean where there's there's only so far

you can go with weddings, like in the grand scheme of things in terms of like what's capable down at the end of the day, because there's like there's a cap on that business. There is a cap. And also you're telling technically you're telling the same story over and over and over and over again. Obviously, it's unique to each couple in terms of like where it is, who they are as people, you know, maybe the energy and tone. But at the end of the day, the same plot is happening. You know what it's like, Kirill? It's like an edit with like every like each wedding is a new edit of the same video. Exactly. Yeah. It's like the same skeleton is there. But maybe sometimes people want to work with different skeletons of story. I don't know if that analogy works.

But so I will say, and that's that's what people that's what people would say. But like for me, like every single wedding, even though I was shooting like 30 plus a year, everyone was in a lot of times we'd be at the same venue because we became like preferred vendors at some some places. And ensure there were certain things about the venue itself. I'm like, Oh gosh, that there's that one, the church lady is going to be there and she's going to be really mean to us. And then this place has this like terrible lighting and whatever. But at the end of the day, like it was, it was a brand new experience for me every single time because of the couples, the families, it was always a challenge. One of my top five strengths is woo. Like it's winning others over. So I just feel challenged every time to like, try to get people to like me. And, uh, so, you know, every wedding was a new challenge

to, um, to just try to inject peace and joy and, uh, and fun in their, uh, in their wedding film experience. So I never really got tired of like, oh, another couple, another marriage. Guess what's gonna happen at the end? They're gonna kiss and they're gonna be married. That to me was like, no, this is cool. And I know what we give them is unique and special for them. So yeah, it may be the same for us,

but it's completely new for them. And sometimes it's good to feed off that energy. And I really like what you said about being the source of peace for them. Because I feel like as content creators, whether you're doing weddings, whether you're doing video, like corporate videos, commercials, or anything like that, when you're dealing with clients, whoever they might be, you need to be that source of peace for them. Because things happen on set all the time that are unexpected where you've dealt with it before. So it's not a problem, but that's the first time

the client is experiencing that. And you have to take them aside and say, no, don't relax. Don't worry. We're going to figure this out. Like it's all good. Yeah. Like I, I did a shoot. Uh, we did a shoot recently where, uh, we were working locally in in the US and we had hired a crew there with our own team, especially our own makeup person. This was communicated to the client originally. And when I showed up with the client on set, their client already had a makeup person there. So we got stuck with two makeup people on the same shoot, which was a little bit of an awkward situation because that was a first. That was a first. They both knew each other.

Luckily, they also knew each other. So there weren't any problems there. So we figured it out. And essentially, what I did was I brought the client aside because I could tell that she was freaking out, not sure what to do here. And I said, don't worry,

we're going to make it work. We're going to have that makeup artist focus on this and this makeup artist focus on that. I had a conversation with each of the makeup artists to make sure everyone was on the same page. And at the end of the day, it all worked out. The client was happy. My client was happy.

Everything went well. So things happen on set. And like you said, be that source of peace for your client. Yeah, even if you don't, even if it's something brand new for you to be able to have a poker face and just know that, hey, we're going to figure this out. Right. Because that's what we do.

Right. When you have a producer mindset. Problem solvers. Like our job is like it's you're putting out fires, you're figuring out how to solve problems and and try to be creative along the way. And sure, you get stuck. But sharing your stuckness or your frustration or anything like that with a client, there's never a good reason to do that, on set especially, but offline, sure. Having conversations, debriefing and unpacking what

worked well, what didn't, that's great to have with a client. But in the moment, to pass any stress to a client where they probably can't solve any of the issues or problems is just not a smart thing to do. You're the last line of defense. That's the thing. That's how I see production sets. The producer is technically the last line of defense for the client in terms of how to solve certain problems on the set, right?

All the other crew members are there to help you guys solve that issue. But at the end of the day, if the main point of contact that is dealing with the client starts panicking and the client sees that, then they're going to panic. You have to be cool, calm, and collected and show that no matter what happens, you'll figure it out. And even if it's a challenge that may not 100% be fixable, you have to think about what kind of alternatives you could do on the fly, especially when time is ticking.

Because on set, time is ticking. You only have certain people for a certain amount of time. And if you're not comfortable making quick decisions, then you need to work on that if you want to be a producer. Right. Totally. So you mentioned you're focusing a lot on the story aspects of a business. So did you have a lot of trouble trying to pitch that to certain companies?

Or was it like they kind of understood your vision for it right away because i've noticed a lot a lot of new businesses are trying to go in that direction now but before i don't think it was kind of the norm you know a lot of times people will call us and say like hey we need a video and so you know i just try to ask as many questions as possible to figure out like what what is the here? And start with the end in mind. What does success look like for you guys? If it's an agency or somebody that has a creative team, they might already have, like, boards and, like, you know, they're, like, straight up. This is what we need you guys to do.

It's, like, cool. Like, if we know that on the front end, it's, like, very easy for us to build an estimate out and quote that out or whatever. But if people need to rely on us and lean on us for, uh, for our expertise in our brain power, not just our cool cameras and our ability to shoot and light and get good sound, then our recommendation is always to, to do a workshop with them. And what I tell them basically is like, I mean, I can give you a quote for this job, but from what I'm hearing you say,

it sounds like you really want to lean on us and our expertise. And if that's the case, then what we need to do is workshop and all get in alignment. You get in alignment with your team alignment. You get in alignment with your team and us to get in alignment with you with what's actually needed, taking through our storytelling process. And from that workshop, we'll create a blueprint. A couple of weeks after the workshop, we'll give this blueprint that is essentially everything that we've talked about,

but, you know, in a nice document, in a form where you can look at it, you can share with your team. People can say like, yeah, this is the video that we're talking about. In the workshop, that's where we start talking about because, you know, on the front end, they might have said like, well, we, we really needed like an about us film. Like, and we, you know, we want to have it we want a cool story we want to share our capabilities and all of this all these things and so that really that's like it's an informational piece right there's no emotion there's no like there's no drawing the viewer in it's just like well maybe with like an epic drone shot. But outside of that,

it's just like, here's how cool we are. Here's all the great stuff that we've done. Here's why you should hire us. And quite frankly, that might be okay, like really far down in the, in the, like the sales marketing funnel, but with how they've described where they want to place it in their funnel, you know, front and center on their website and how they want to use it. It just doesn't, it doesn't make sense. It's not the same thing. So we always ask them, one of the very first things is, are you, do you want a piece that's information or informational or inspirational? And they're like, well, I mean, both. And then we show them, you know, well, here's informational and here's an inspirational. And they're like, we're like, which one do you like and which one do you like? Oh, that one.

And it's usually always the the inspirational piece, which is the story. Right. So without them understanding and as we explain, you know, why, you know the what the difference is between it's like features benefits yeah that's good that's good and people need to know that at some point before they hire you but if you want to get their attention and if you want to have a piece that that makes uh that that is your differentiator it's your is your story or it's the stories inside of your business and and it's not like somebody just like going it's the stories inside of your business. And it's not like somebody just like going through all this data and all this information. Like, I mean, quite frankly, that stuff can get pretty boring. Right. Uh, but if you want to get people to lean in and

you want them to connect with you and to build trust, you have to tell like real authentic stories. So we don't like, we don't like force people into that. We just try to get them to understand what, what they're choosing. And in most of the time, what they, what they really want is, is that emotive piece, you know, but they, they haven't seen it. They don't know how to articulate it. They say their competitor has something that's like super epic and drone shots and like cool stuff in their factory and whatever. And it's like, you know, 98% of our clients are satisfied and, you know, just like all the things. And it's like, ah, yeah, cool. 30 years in business and blah, blah, blah. It's like, but like when you're like interviewing the lady who's worked there for 30 years at the

front desk and she kind of gets teared up because she's like this place is everything to me this is my family uh like i mean the difference between those two pieces is like night and day and it's some people at the end of the day they're like no we need an informational piece you know if you can make it interesting and whatever that's that's what we want it's like cool like if you know exactly what you're what you're asking for and what you're what you're getting then that's that you're informed. And that's how we go about that. So is your workshop part of your, it's separate from your pre-production process, essentially, is that what you're saying? Or is it part of it?

Yeah, I mean, we use it, you know, so we do the workshop. It's $2,500 right now. I'm thinking about raising the price to $5,000. But the workshop is a two-hour deal. now, I'm thinking about raising the price to 5,000, but the workshop is a two hour deal. It's, they're not agreeing to anything outside of this $2,500 workshop. So we're going to give them the blueprints. If we get to the end of the workshop and they don't like the workshop, we just tell them, we'll give you your money back. That's a great selling point. And people are like, oh, cool. And then I always say like, nobody's ever asked for their money back, but

like that option is there. So we get to the end of the workshop and then we deliver the blueprint. In the blueprint, we're going to have two or three different options, like packages that we're suggesting based on the things that you guys talked about. And you're going to be able to see like,

oh, this is, you know, the cost difference between, you know, one day and two days or, you know, doing everything local versus travel. And so we're going to lay those out for them based on everything that we've already talked about. So there's really no surprises in the blueprint. It's like things that we talked about.

And then we also don't let them book the workshop unless they have a budget range that they are committing to this project. And they may not know exactly, but we tell them them we're not going to do, we're not going to spend two hours with you and your team with, with no idea on how much you guys want to spend on this. Because if we give you a blueprint that has a hundred thousand dollar option in this whole time, you're like, you have $8,000 to spend. Like we just wasted your team's time and our time. Well, we didn't really waste our time because we made 2,500 bucks, but don't, you know, let's, let's be big boys and girls and just say like, this is what we're, you know, we want to stay on the lower end of this range. And that's great. It's like, cool. We're going

to give you options. And if we can do this efficiently and keep it lower, then great. And we may give you one that's actually a little bit more than what you, you said your range was, but that's including all of the things that you guys said were on your, your wishlist for this, this project. So we do the blueprint and then our team nine times out of 10, probably more than that, 95% of the time clients are choosing a package out of the three that we proposed. And then we start the project and then our team has this blueprint, right? And if there's more questions, pre-interviews, you know, other things that need to happen, scouting and all that stuff that happens in addition, but it's just a lot less pre-production

work typically that needs to happen because we've done a good bulk of the work in that workshop. What I like about that is you're really like finding a way to service them in a way that's beneficial to them and not just for you. Because what you said was what a lot of people will probably hear about your approach with the workshop. It's like, oh, great. This is an easy way to make $2,500 for two hours of work. But you're being very careful for the client and saying, hey, this is something we do for the projects, but you still need to be able to set aside a budget of this range so that we can give you a proper recommendation in the workshop. Because if you can't do that and we find that out in the workshop, then for us, yeah, sure, we made some money, but that's going to be a disservice to you. And we want to, we want to communicate and make sure that, uh, you know, what is expected and what we're trying to do with this workshop. The workshop is there to benefit you, not us. That is, that is the whole point. And it's, it's actually not two hours because

it's two hours of them presenting it to them. It's the, probably the one to two hour call he's doing with them beforehand plus the work putting the entire no no no together no he they discover that stuff there right because i think oh so you actually do oh i yeah so it's 20 minute 20 or 30 minute discovery call where i'm like hey what do you guys have uh boards for us or do you need our expertise oh we need your expertise cool so that's a 20 or 30 minute call they're they're booking the workshop and then we're jumping into our workshop oh that's genius so you're basically doing like an rfp but you're getting paid for it it's paid what the hell is this genius okay we we tell them you get this blueprint you don't have to use us right we're

going to give you three pricing options so it will give you an idea if you hired us what it's going to cost. But you could take this to any other video company and say like, here's what these guys, you know, like, so for any RFP or RFQ that you get, I'm always like, man, I wish they would have just hired us to take them through our process. And then they could have sent a well informed RFP to a bunch of video companies that would be like, oh, okay, it's two days of shooting, it's going to a bunch of video companies that would be like, Oh, okay. It's two days of shooting. It's going to be, you know, all of the things instead of like, you know, some people who've never done video, like, well, what do we need a two minute video? You know, and they just come up with a bunch of things. So that's helpful too. People are usually

like, Oh no, no, we wouldn't hire somebody else. I'm like, it's fine. Actually we've made our money with the workshop. So if you did want to shop that around anybody, it's no offense here. That's totally your, you paid for it. That's what you get. I like that because you leave it, you leave it so that it's not like you're locking them in. Like you're not giving them the impression that they're locked in to moving forward to the next stage of the process or anything like that, which might make decision making a lot easier for them, right? Because with any business, when you need to spend marketing dollars, you're going to be hesitant to commit to $50,000 as in one decision, right? But if you have to commit to $50,000, but first commit to $5,000, then another $5,000,

then another $5,000, then another $5,000, those are commit to 5,000, then another 5,000, then another 5,000, then another 5,000. Those are smaller decisions. So they're a lot easier to kind of digest for people. And I mean, also, why wouldn't they go with you if you provided the blueprint? Because you know the content right then and there. So probably 90% of the time they're going to go with you at the end of the day. Is that right? Yeah. It's It's been a hundred percent of the time they've gone with us. So any other, like any, but any other video company that they're talking to most, all of them don't offer this. So it's a, it's a differentiator for us. We get in the door, we get two hours with the CEO, the CMO, the, you know, the communications person that reached out to us. So we get all this time to build rapport, to build relationship. And then we give them this document. There's no reason in the world that they would

want to go with somebody else, unless there was just this clash of personalities. And they were just like, these are not the right fit guys. And if that's what we figured out in a two hour workshop, I'll give them their money back. And that's, that's totally fine. Like I don't want to work with them and, and they don't want to, that's that's really good so to have a low priced you know offer like this this is we went from you know average uh brand film being like 20 22 000 and it's like a tough pill to swallow for somebody that's talking to us for the first time that's never done a video that wants to do this epic film to go from zero dollars to you know never spent never bought a video before to over twenty thousand dollars and now we can be like oh you know what actually

now we have this like piece in between we have this workshop it's twenty five hundred bucks and really this was born out of we work we had a university client and there they had to get approval for anything over maybe it was was over $5,000. And so I just said, man, if we offered them this for $2,500, they wouldn't even have to get approval. So then we could go through this. And then if they needed to send an RFP out to other people, they could. But even if other people are quoting quoting close or whatever we still have the relationship like we we already own that part yeah so in in it when it worked they were able to

like oh yeah cool like we don't even have to ask for permission let's do this workshop and i'm like oh man this is great and uh yeah we've done uh i think a lot a lot of money in just the workshop itself, which has led to multiple six figures projects, probably more. Well, the great thing is you're making it a lot easier for them as well, which is a big thing. You're also getting really good face time with a lot of key people within the business. also getting really good face time with a lot of key people within the business. And my favorite part though, is that that allows you to discover things about the client that they probably didn't even think about sharing with you. Because a lot of the time, yeah, you might figure out like, okay, what is the goal of the video? What do you want it to accomplish? What targets do you want to hit? And then maybe you might go back and like come up with some ideas and then present it to them.

want to hit and then maybe you might go back and like come up with some ideas and then present it to them but what i really like about this is that this is where you can really dive into who is part of the organization and who might be an interesting person to to interview because i'm even thinking to myself right now it's if i get into that room and i'm talking to everyone it's like okay great this is you want to go with the inspirational piece like as you mentioned um tell me about some of the people that work within the organization like Like what are some of their stories? You know, it's like, oh, we have this person, like you said, who's worked at the organization for 30 years. It's like, really? Why did, why have they been here for 30 years? And then, then something can come out of that, that they never would have even thought about. And then that way you could start exploring

different kinds of projects that you wouldn't have figured out if it was just a simple discovery call and then presenting like a few ideas based on what's there. And it's definitely really is a lot more customized to them as an organization. And they'll love it. They'll see the passion in you. And yeah, why wouldn't they go with you at that point if you're passionate about working with them on that? The really underrated feature about all that, too, is that you're getting real time feedback. Yes. Yes.

From the lead. Right. So you can understand if you're trying to say like, OK, maybe they might like this video and you could tell on their face. It's like, eh, not really. It's like, OK, that's just one of the options. What about this one? And here's the other thing is we don't when we first started doing these, we felt like we needed to on the spot come up with some really cool ideas for them but then we realized like no this is it's all about gathering information and it's about getting them in alignment with each other because normally what

happens somebody on a team gets tasked with like hey go out and find out get some estimates from some video companies okay and that's this person goes out and they come back and they're like, okay, yeah, just hire that one. Like, let's do they sound like, okay, cool. So then, then, and then that's your point person. You're working with somebody who's got a team and we never really got in a room on a regular basis with the stakeholders, with anybody that cared, we would do a project. We'd work with this one person. We'd edit it. We finish it. And they're like, okay, great, great. And then we're done with the project. And then a week later, my CEO just looked at the video and she can't believe that, you know, we interviewed such and such person. That's every company. We just dealt with that

recently. And I'm like, wait, what? You've already approved this. Like you said, it was great. Now you're just showing it to somebody that matters that, that actually is going to speak it. So then we got to go. And it was this awkward, we felt indebted to that. Like, or we felt like we needed to like do this stuff for free. Like, and it was their fault because they didn't do a good job communicating. So instead of like relying on that one person, now we're like, okay, we're going to do this workshop. You need to bring in all the stakeholders. Now, if they're not able to bring in all the stakeholders, but bringing in all stakeholders normally happens because they're invested. They're spending $2,500. People who pay, pay attention, right? They pay attention. So people are in there. And if for whatever reason, the CEO or somebody else wasn't in there,

they still get the blueprint and the blueprint when they see the first draft of the video based out on the blueprint there's zero surprises we've never had anybody be like what is this where in the past we would set a v1 and we'd close our eyes and we would just hope and pray that they would like it and, and, and not be too surprised because we, we were like, well, let's try this opening. Cause we think it's really cool. And, and then, you know, they're like, this is the worst. Or we, we, we wait for it. Wouldn't hear from them for days and like, Oh no, no.

Like do that. And then they're like, Oh yeah, that's great. Or like, no, it's the worst. So we, we avoid all of that now because they see this blueprint. They're like, yeah, this is the direction. This is the vibe. Sometimes we'll throw in some song samples. We'll show them a couple of video samples and there's just no surprise. And they can get buy-in from their CEO with the blueprint if they can't make the meeting. And so nobody's getting in trouble. The communications person or whoever got tasked with finding the video company,

they're like, that person is a hero now. They're like, man, that was a great workshop. Wow, this is a cool process. You know, first drafted the video, this whole thing worked out great. What I love about this is that it addresses so many issues that can come up later on with just simply a two-hour meeting. It is probably the most genius bit of information

that has actually probably been shared on this podcast, I have to say. I is, it is probably the most genius bit of information that has actually probably been shared on this podcast. I have to say, I mean, we've talked a lot about how, you know, you got to really nail down your pre-production this, that, and the other thing. And then you just enlightened us to the step before the pre-production essentially. Maybe other people do this too, but they just don't want to share it. But, i love it is that it's it's not a it's not something that is like uh it's going to be the secret sauce or anything like that that uh defines a production company what it essentially does it's like an it's a tool to help things run smoothly right so that the actual creativity and the real work can actually shine because they could there have

been many times where you create you do a creative there they they agree to it in the pre-production everything goes good and then later on they might be like oh yeah we need to change something completely and then the video becomes frankenstein completely different from what was the original vision and then it's like okay well there you go and then at that point you're upset also because it's like oh now it's not exactly like how i envisioned it you know but i like it and especially what dario said is that it with the real-time feedback is is so key because you can feel out what they're looking for what they're what they aren't looking for and even if it's just to go, like what you said,

inspirational or informational, show them specific examples of what that means. And if they say, oh yeah, we just need something informational because we need to do this and this. Okay, perfect. Boom, done. Next steps, let's go.

Yeah, it's been a game changer. When did you start implementing that approach? Like how did you come up with that? 2016, that's when we did our first workshop. Game changer. When did you start implementing that approach? Like, how did you come up with that? 2016. That's when we did our first workshop. I had hired a consultant to help me with some stuff. And he charged me. And he was a friend.

But his consultant fee was like $2,500. And he said to me after we met and I hired him, he's like, hey, I do want to talk to you about some video stuff. And he's like, but, you know, maybe like more strategy. And I'm him, he's like, Hey, I do want to talk to you about some video stuff. And he's like, but you know, maybe like more strategy. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, how does $2,500 sound for that meeting? He's like, that sounds great. And I was like, are you serious? So it was kind of like a Frankenstein approach where I was just like, I was going to ask a lot of questions. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe somebody just paid me 2,500 bucks for two hours that I just asked a lot of questions. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe somebody just paid me $2,500 for two hours. I just asked a lot of questions and I presented them like a couple of pages.

So a lot of more strategy. And really, at the end of the day, I was like, you shouldn't really be doing a video right now. You should do a podcast audio thing and whatever. But that was the first step. And then the very next one, we said, this can be very specific to a story or to a video. It doesn't have to be an overall video marketing strategy. It's like, you've got a need for a video.

Let's just brainstorm. Let's do pre-production and get people to pay for our time right here. Yeah, you're actually streamlining a good portion of the pre-production process because it takes time to brainstorm ideas, develop them, especially if you're doing it on your own. And bringing the client into the brainstorming process, I think that also makes them excited because it's a whole new experience for them. And then they get to see how excited you are about what that entails necessarily. And there's just so much good that can come out of it. And a good way to also spot red flags,

like you mentioned especially, very good way to spot red flags. I'll also say we've had people who have moved on because you're in a room with multiple people and they're all important, they all play a role, but they don't stay at that company. And I chatted with a gal two weeks ago from a company that we hosted multiple workshops with. And she's like, I've been telling my new team that we need to bring you guys in so that we can go through the workshop.

Just because she knows like how valuable it is and that she will be seen as a mini hero if they are to go through this process. So it doesn't just work for that client, but it can work for, you know, people that move on and go to the next place. You know, it's one thing to say like, oh, I worked with the video team and my previous, you know, and they're great. But, you know, again, she's not committing her team to a $20,000 video. It's like, oh, it's $2,500 workshop. And this is why we should do it. Blah, blah, blah. And the brilliant thing is also you're actually providing like a deliverable for them at the end of it in a way as well. Something for them to actually take back and present to their team, see what the whole process would entail.

And then that way anyone who wasn't there can basically see essentially what that is. You basically productized the, how do you say, like the summary brief or like the pitch document. That's kind of what you've done, which is... He's turned himself into a consultant, at least for that part of the process. Which is so key. Which is great, yeah.

So key, because a lot of what we do is consulting before we even get to pre-production. And it takes time. It takes time. And I think the consolidation of doing it in a in an in-person workshop meeting saves everyone time and that is the biggest thing you know like the imagine if you had to break that down into like two or three meetings where you do like an like a half hour call with the client learn some information

then go back half hour call with them show them some ideas oh no we don't like information, then go back, half hour call with them, show them some ideas. Oh, no, we don't like it. Okay, let's go back and figure out some other ideas. You get all that done in one go and big time saver, especially for not only you, but also for them as well, which is a good way to put it. I'll say that why this works so well is because we're really trying to gear them toward or lead them toward doing a brand film. If they came to us and they weren't really sure what kind of video and they wanted some options, then it might get a little bit more confusing and a little bit harder because then there might be a need for some creative to happen in the workshop or in the blueprint itself. to happen in the workshop or in the blueprint itself. So because we love doing brand films or like transformational type stories,

it works very well there. So that what we're pitching is documentary style. It's really gonna come out of the interviews. We're gonna ask them in the workshop, we're gonna talk about some visuals and some ideas that they might have or think that might be required in this piece. But again, we're not presenting. We're not writing. In most cases, we're not writing scripts. It's like, here's the idea. This is the flow. This is what you want to communicate. And it's going to come

out. We're going to draw it out of the people. We're going to do the best that we can. So it, it removes that feeling of having to present like an amazingly creative idea. I mean, how many times have you offered an idea, a creative idea, uh, or just like something that you just thought was like really epic before somebody has even signed a contract with you with a potential client? It's happened to everybody hundreds of times. Everybody. And then like, and then how many of those times do they just like, you know, not hire you and not really care about, they might be like, oh, that's cool. But then they just don't, they don't hire you.

Or if they do hire you, they don't care about that idea. They've got like some other vision or some other idea. Because you haven't connected. The problem is in those times you haven't connected that idea to their brand and them and that is why they don't see it as something really epic you know like when you think about with so much content being posted nowadays there's so much epic stuff and cool stories and all that aspect online but no one relates it to the audience that they're that they're showing that to and especially when you're showing it to a client, if you're going to pitch an idea, you can't just say, let's do an epic walking one take video because that's the trend that

everyone's doing right now. They're going to be like, okay, sounds cool, but why? But if you say like, for example, like here's one cool example that just came to my mind. There was this video that was done by johnny walker where it was all done in one take and the guy was talking about the history of johnny walker to the camera while walking down a dirt patch road and trail yeah i know it's i know that you're talking about you know exactly which one i'm talking about and he's he's giving a great like description of like description of what Johnny Walker has done over the years.

And at the end of it, when you think about it, he's just simply walking just like the brand name, Johnny Walker, right? And that was a little... I can see that there was probably that correlation that was done in the pre-production. And I think they really like that. And that's why that trend that was happening at the time applied to that creative. So that is the key thing. And that's why the workshop is so good for that. Wow.

I got to say, we already hit the 12. We're already at 1250. This whole episode has been around your workshop element because there's just like, honestly, but there's so much to unpack there. And I kind of like it that we've kept it to that focus for now. But yeah, because I know you have a hard stop within a few minutes. He's got a hard stop at once. So why don't we do the closing remarks?

Ryan, why don't you plug your site and the other, what do you call it? Studio Sherpas, Tel Studios, tell everyone where they can find you. If you want to see our production work, it lives at telstudios.com we're actually niching uh we're kind of going through a big uh i haven't been excited this excited about my production company in in probably over a decade uh with what has transpired over the last six weeks so uh things are going to be changing uh soon on our site but you can just see some of the work that we're doing and see our team and see our studio, all kinds of fun stuff there. StudioSherpas.com is where all of our education stuff lives. The podcast is called Grow Your Video Business.

And funny enough that we talked about this workshop and this blueprint, um, if you guys are interested, there is, uh, you can download a sample of what one of our blueprints look like. If you go to studio Sherpas.com slash blueprint. So studio Sherpas.com slash blueprints. Uh, and then, um, you'd be able to just get a sense of like what we're delivering to this. It's literally like what we have sent to a client and then there's even more information about because I've turned this into a digital course so there are a number of Studio Sherpa students that I have that have bought this idea like how do we do our own workshops and I take everybody through that so you can learn more about that if you sign up you get the free blueprint but then you get some emails that kind of explain the workshop

in a little bit more detail if it's something that you might be interested in. So there's that. I'm literally going to check that out right after this because I was curious the whole time we were talking about it. I'm like, I wonder what he has in his blueprint. Yeah, and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you get like a, well, I mean,

we're not thousands of listeners at this point with our podcast, but at least a couple more, uh, maybe one day, right. But you'll definitely get a couple more people probably applying, uh, and, uh, signing up for your newsletter, but that that's, that's great. That's, that's awesome. A lot of, a lot of good value in that and keep doing what you're doing, man. It's awesome. Appreciate it guys. Yeah. And you too, like, uh, keep up the good work. Uh, there's, there's obviously, uh, there are a lot of people out there that, uh, want to not feel alone in this work, right? Because it can, it can feel like that. And, uh, the work that you guys are doing, especially doing it together, uh, I think that's good. And, uh,

just a way to invite people into something bigger and to feel a part of something and to, to learn, like how, how can I learn faster and make fewer a part of something and to, to learn like how, how can I learn faster and make fewer mistakes? So yeah, keep up the good work guys. Yeah. Thank you. No,

we appreciate it. Cool. Well, thanks Ryan. All right. We'll chat soon. Awesome. Thanks guys.