Creatives Grab Coffee - Thriving in a Small Market (ft. Tower 3 Productions) | Creatives Grab Coffee 87

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, Alden Wood from Tower 3 Productions from Jackson, Wyoming shares valuable insights into running a successful video production business in a small market. Alden discusses her journey from corporate TV production to establishing one of Wyoming’s leading commercial and wedding video companies. Discover how she overcame early challenges around confidence and pricing, her strategies for staying competitive, and why building a strong freelance network is key for scaling efficiently. Perfect for marketers and video professionals aiming to succeed in smaller markets.TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Episode Introduction and Guest Welcome02:28 - Guest Bio: Alden Wood from Tower Three Productions05:30 - Building a Production Company in a Small Market11:10 - Early Challenges: Overcoming Confidence and Pricing Obstacles14:09 - Developing Essential Sales Skills in Video Production19:02 - How Video Calls Have Transformed Client Meetings26:39 - Competition and Pricing in Small Markets33:08 - The Truth About Camera Gear and Client Perceptions39:29 - Experiences as a Woman-Owned Production Company47:02 - Balancing Weddings and Corporate Video Services52:20 - Challenges of Marketing Weddings vs Corporate Services55:19 - Lessons Learned: Confidence and Valuing Your Services01:02:55 - Expanding Regionally and Leveraging SEO01:05:24 - The Story Behind “Tower Three Productions”01:07:27 - Closing Remarks and Final ThoughtsSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vHd8BdbkMQITFZmDJ0bo9🍏 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/creatives-grab-coffee/id1530864140 🎞️Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.comTo learn more about the show, visit: https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/

Welcome to Creative Scrap Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creative Scrap Coffee is hosted by Dario Nuri and Kirill Lazerov from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors. Do you have a shoot in Toronto?

Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? Laps Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. Laps Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder

fees for project handoffs. Reach out to us on our website at LAPSProductions.com to learn more. My name is Mehran, welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you're a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group plan packages. You can see our contact information in the link below.

We are more than happy to help you guys out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativesgrapcoffee.com. Thank you. Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, Foley. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto.

We got you covered. Come on down. AudioProcess.ca. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to CreativesGrabCoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. And we're all going to have a real good time. And now let's begin the show.

All right. Welcome back, everyone, to Creatives Grab Coffee. Today, we got Alden from tower 3 productions How's it going Alden? Good. Thanks for having me guys So just kind of before we get started give us a little quick intro and background into who you are and who tower 3 productions is Sure, I live here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, which is in the mountains in Wyoming and I moved here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, which is in the mountains in Wyoming. I moved here to work for a ski film production company. I started Tower3 on my own in 2010.

I was just by myself shooting, editing, doing the whole deal for a few years and then have slowly built the company with both full-time employees and freelancers and today we're one of the biggest production companies in Wyoming and we're more commercial based production. We do a lot of drone footage so yeah I get to live and work in an awesome, amazing, beautiful place and do what I love, which is to make videos. And for such a long time too, like from 2010 till now, it's no easy feat to keep a company going for so long, especially through all the different major shifts

in the industry and everything. You mentioned that you were working at another company that was more so specialized in skiing. Is that kind of like, are there like any specific kind of niches like that that are thriving a lot in Wyoming? Or is it kind of more general with a lot of companies there? So Wyoming is a very unpopulated state

and it's in the, It's in the American West, so most of the state is ranches, cowboys, oil and gas, and then there's this little pocket on the left side of the state, if you're looking at the map, where you have Yellowstone National Park, Grand Teton National Park, and then the little town where I live is Jackson. So it's like the gateway. So here in Jackson we're at a ski resort. We have, you know, there's, it's recreation, lots of, you know, summer, winter activities. So here in Jackson, there are a few more action sports based production companies.

It's definitely not, not normal for Wyoming, but just in this little pocket. But there's several, like the one here that I worked with called T-Town Gravity Research is really, really well known in the field of action sports. And their competitors are like Warren Miller, which is in Colorado, and some production company in Utah, and production company in California. So that's sort of where that genre lives,

but we're kind of exceptional in this little pocket of winter and summer sports over here in Jackson. So what made you decide to kind of go out on your own? Like how long were you at that other company and what was your decision making like to basically go out on your own and start your own shop? Yeah, so I came up through corporate TV production in New York City in Los Angeles,

working for companies like MTV, VH1, Fox, and kind of award shows, reality shows. And I was a PA and then worked my way up to be a production coordinator and then a production manager. So I really learned the production producing side of things when I was just in my intro jobs right out of college, working 18 hour days, driving big 15 passenger vans around New York with gear. It was a great experience. And then I moved to New York, or sorry, moved back to Los Angeles. And on the way from New York to Los Angeles,

I worked at the Olympics in 2002 and helped produce a show about a couple Olympians. And being back in Utah in the ski environment, and I was like, God, if I could find a way to combine production and my love for the outdoors, that would be awesome. Then I went back to LA, continued to work in reality TV, And then I was up here visiting after I had done a big show where I was a production manager and moved 150 crew around the world. It was a show about Richard Branson and so we had to move. It was this show sort of like The Apprentice where each location they would do a challenge and one person would win.

And so we'd have to move all these people around the world to Richard Branson's different properties like, you know, we're in Nacre Island, we're in Morocco, we're in Tokyo, it was, we're in South Africa. So it was like this huge job and I never, even though being in all those locations, I never saw the light of day because I was in the production office like 20 hours a day just trying to get people out to where they needed to be. So I got done with that show, and I had a friend who lived here.

And he was like, come, just chill out. You need a break. So I came, and while I was here, I walked into that famous ski film production company called TGR, Teton Gravity Research. They're like, what do you do? And I said, oh, I produce reality style TV in Los Angeles. And they said, oh, that's so funny.

We're looking for somebody to fill a similar role for us. And two weeks later, I moved to Jackson. So it was sort of the serendipitous way of being here. I had a whole plan in LA. I was applying to grad school at American Film Institute. I was going to do the producer track. And I ripcorded, decided to take a totally different direction. And at the time, nobody now, everyone,

kind of knows where Jackson Hole is because it's gotten famous just because of the lifestyle and the skiing but back then everyone all my friends in Los Angeles were like you're moving to Wyoming what what is in Wyoming and I was like just trust me and so I came here and worked for other people for several years, for six years, and built up my experience. My last job before I started my own business was at an ad agency where they wanted me to set up the video production arm, which I did, and worked there for a few years. That's where I kind of learned like real estate, events, commercial production.

So when I went off on my own, I had the blessing of my old boss. He and I actually worked together on setting me up, which was amazing. And so I just started taking my own clients and have built it from there. And yeah, it's been a long time. It's interesting for me to realize, like 15 years,

I've been on my own. And I have so many people to thank for that, because I have hired amazing people and have an incredible freelance network of people who know way more than me. And I have no ego about that and I just always try to get people in whose knowledge is just, it's incredible.

But I would say my strengths are as a producer. I'm really good at putting things together, finding people, getting projects done, the numbers, the, yeah, so. Sorry, that was a long answer. No, no, it was great. And you pretty much highlighted one key thing about what it was like before you started your company,

which is that you were a veteran in the space. You've known the industry, you knew the industry for a while, you listed off so many different kinds of organizations, productions, clients that you've got, you had the chance to kind of work with. So you really had a good understanding of the business to the point where it may not have been as scary to start your own shop.

Cause for anyone who's starting their own company, it can be daunting if you don't know the business. Or it's either you understand that you don't know and it's daunting or you don't know that you don't know and you're naive when you start a company, right? Which is kind of a little bit of what how Dario and I started because we didn't know the business when we started in it.

But having so much experience and starting your company, what was like one of the first things that you knew that you had to do in order to start growing and expanding quickly because of your experience? Yeah, so I think I had a couple obstacles. Well, first of all, I was really scared to start my own business and I had a friend who had started her own and my brother both said,

if you wanna make any money doing this, you need to be on your own. You can't really make a great living working for other people in the video production space, unless you're an executive at Fox or something. I was like, okay, and it was really scary. I knew that back in 2010, interestingly enough, it's only been 15 years, but people were really still trying to figure out video, how it would work for them commercially. And so my biggest hurdle was being like, no, you need a video. If you're a business owner

and you have a web presence or you have a social media presence or you're, you know, and so it's just really trying to explain to people like, no, no, no, this is going to take it to the next level for you. This is a really good investment. And sort of, I came up against that a lot of like, well, why should I spend this money? And I'm like, well, because in my mind it was like a no brainer. So it's just getting people to adopt to that. Whereas now, everyone knows they need video and they're shooting it themselves a lot of the time, which is, you know, for people like us, trying to convince them they need

the more professional version is sort of our hurdle now. But, so yeah, I think that was the biggest thing was just, you know, that. And honestly, also being young, being a woman, trying to sell the services to people. I had a lot of people sort of saying, oh, you could take a thousand for this rather than two thousand, or you could do this for three hundred rather than seven hundred. And I'd be like, well, no, I mean, those are the prices, but I found myself doing that a lot, taking the lesser amount just to get the job.

Because I wanted to build up my resume. Needless to say, I don't do that anymore. That was something that I felt like I needed to do for a few years was really negotiate my prices down so that I could get hired, you know, which is a little bit unfortunate. But now I think people obviously know me and my how professional we are, and they see the need. So it's not like a question anymore. That happens to all of us. Yeah, like especially when we're starting out again to build a portfolio, to understand the landscape and navigate those conversations. I'm just wondering, when you were working with all those different companies, you were

working more so on the producing management side. When you went out and you started doing sales for yourself, what are some of the things that you learned through developing your sales skills that still help you to this day? Yeah, well I think I have like a terrible phobia of public speaking. I freaking hate it. I have like beta blockers that I take in case I have to get up in front of a group of people. But initially when I was trying to set myself up here, I'd

have to go and present to big groups like real estate groups or event planning groups or any business that had several employees and I'd have to get up and be like, this is what I do. And so obviously that was, and I still hate it. Like now, luckily enough, I don't have to do that. I have other people that can either come up with me that makes me feel better or just present on my behalf. Every once in a while, I have to do that.

That was the biggest hurdle for me was just to have to be really confident in my delivery, be really confident in what I was saying, know what I was saying, research. What if they ask me this? I better have an answer for that or this and that so Um, I think that was a big hurdle was just feeling really confident in my messaging and speaking in front of people Do those beta blockers actually work? Yeah I had to get up in front of a whole auditorium once and it worked. It worked.

I was beyond nervous. And it was like I had to introduce a friend's film for like 10 seconds to say their name and even that freaked me out. But I think I'm better now. I'm on a few different boards here in Jackson so I've had to get up and talk about different things unrelated to production which has been good for me so it's a work in progress. It's probably a lot easier now too because everything is there's video calls are such an integral part of like your selling process now I guess because a lot of people just don't have time to drive to downtown to meet

someone and waste half of their day doing that. Even for those people themselves who are probably working from home where they got other stuff they gotta do, it's just easier to hop on a quick 15, 30 minute call and then just go from there, right? Like I think we haven't had to meet someone in person. I think we did it just once since the pandemic started, you know, as like a lead call type of thing.

Like, we've only done that one time. So it's a lot easier now. It is. It's great. I love it. Yeah. Believe me for a person like me, a video calls is really the best. Um, but I also, I have, I have several in-person client meetings a month.

So, um, it's not the one-on-one, like that's sort of fine. It's the presenting in front of a group that is like really gets me. The good thing about video calls is that it's kind of evened the, like I'm just like thinking about it more and it's kind of put everyone on like an equal playing field in terms of when it comes to discussing. Because to Dario's point,

like you don't do it in person as much as before, but like in person when you're pitching, it's almost like you're pitching to, like especially if there's more than one person in the room, it's like you're setting yourself up in this kind of scenario of you have to prove yourself to the people that you're talking to just in terms of like the presence, you know, you're up there standing, you're talking to the client, they're sitting down, leaning back thinking, you know, it's kind of an old school

dynamic that puts people in certain roles in that whole interaction. Whereas like now in video calls, it seems very kind of, it's a lot easier because that kind of pressure is not there and it's this more equilibrium that everyone's kind of like, you know, discussing, it's collaborative and it's good for initial contacts, right, and then once you kind of get through that, then you meet in person, you collaborate together in person and everything goes well, but it's,

the biggest thing also is a time saver because, you know, like how, we're always trying to figure out ways to be more efficient when it comes to talking to new leads, to new clients, and what better way to get a face-to-face while being in the comfort of your own home, looking professional on top, wearing nice shorts. Pajamas on the bottom. Yep, that's my jam. I work from home, I know, wearing nice shorts, shorts, shorts.

Yeah, exactly. That's my jam. I work from home. I know all about that. Yeah. Yeah. We I just remembered this. We actually I just remembered something. We actually did do another in-person presentation, I guess. I think two years ago to an ad to an agency, marketing agency, you all got connected to it to an ad agency, marketing agency, Kierl got connected to. It was an ad agency, yeah.

It was an ad agency and I just remembered, we actually felt very comfortable, I felt very comfortable going up there, I guess because Kierl and I were just bouncing off each other for one. And then number two would be like, we just know this stuff inside and out. And number three, like, I don't know,

you just get to a point, you just stop caring a little bit about like those insecurities. Like I remember I was getting tired. Yeah. I remember I was getting tired. So I literally just pulled up a chair and just sat down. Like, I was like, I don't care. Like, I don't have, I don't have to prove anything.

Like, what do we have to find? Did you guys get the, did you guys get the work? It wasn't work. It was more so to get connected with them. Are they even still around, Kirill? Oh, no, no, they're a big agency. They like one thing that happened with them in the city that has been

happening with a lot of agencies, I think, in Toronto, where some companies, some agencies are downsizing or closing up shop. And then their head executives are being scooped up by these other agencies agencies and they're one of the ones that is still kind of like bringing in other people But like to Dario's point like it was It was a good kind of like exercise for us to kind of see how we are like like pitching and talking in person and Obviously like, you know, if you haven't done something like that

You're gonna make some small mistakes here and there, like as anyone does. But I love this though. I could, but I could still see, I could still see though, the little bit, like some of them, like there were some dynamics I was seeing in them, you know, where it's kind of like, you know, oh, so you're the ones pitching

and we're the ones kind of like taking it. So you can kind of still see that a little bit, but it's very different now, as Dario mentioned. There's like, I think the more you kind of just go from like a human perspective and, you know, and just talk to them normally, then it's, then it'll be natural, right? Totally. Yeah, yeah. And now, I mean, I'm in my mid-40s. I have a lot more confidence. And like you said, I know what I'm talking about. I'm not questioning myself anymore and You know just from being in this business for so long. I feel like I can speak from a place where people

Respect me and yeah, but you know when I was 25 and starting out I was just I was really nervous about it. So I was just, I was really nervous about it. So yeah. Yeah, it comes through exposure. Like the more you get, the more meetings you do, like the easier it gets over time. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. So what about your team size right now?

Like how big is your, your team? Yeah. So full time we have, I've always sort of run with like one to two full time because as you guys know in this business and this climate, just everyone being able to work from wherever, you don't, it's like I have an office attached to my house that has its own entrance, people can come and go and there's like three workstations in there and So we have an assistant editor and then a production manager. So that's my team. And my production manager, like I said, I had an employee, well I don't know if I mentioned

this, but I had an employee of 10 years who just left in December. And she and I really had built the business up together. There was no hard feelings. She just started with me when she was really young and wanted to try a totally different career. So we left on great terms and she gave me six months notice. So over the last six months, we've trained another girl and her name is also Alden.

What are the chances? So weird. So her name is Alden Forbes, so we call her Forbes. But she's really young, just graduated from college last year, but she's great. Like she's, you know, for me at this point in my business, I don't want to be managing the day to day. I want to be overseeing the big picture, like, you know, writing the proposals, the estimates, the estimates, overseeing the bookkeeping, overseeing the freelancers, and doing an edit here or there, going on a shoot here or there. I am really lucky to be able to be at the point where I can have somebody that's there, doing the day-to-day, responding to emails, doing little edits, doing little shoots, and are finding other people to do the shoots.

So just managing the productions. So right now we have her, and then we have Rachel, who is our assistant editor, and her job is just taking all the footage we shoot and stringing it out and doing little edits. She will also go with us on shoots and be an assistant. So right now we're three women, which is awesome. We've always been women, you know, full women-based in terms of staff. And then freelancers, I just have this incredible network of great girls and guys that I work with up here who are probably have like six go-to shooters that at any given moment I'll use.

I have one out tomorrow. I have one out on Friday. You know, so we have some little shoots going on. And then I have about two to three editors that I really trust. And one of them was Kira who just left. So, you know, I am kind of looking to fill that like go-to editor role. And I have a great guy named Will who, who is kind of becoming that person. So yeah, so it's a small team, permanent, small full-time team, larger freelance team.

Yeah, that's become more of the norm now for a lot of our production companies of similar sizes like yourselves and us where you need a small core group of people that are full time and committed to the business to help it grow, but are also filling in roles that help the management, the growth, the expansion. When it comes to specific job roles like editing, production and stuff like that, there's a lot of people and resources out there

on a freelance basis that is a little bit easier to tap into rather than trying to get someone in full time. And like you said, because of our network or because of this like climate that we're in with in terms of work, in the industry to survive you need to be as nimble as possible like obviously grow depending on your work and how you need like we know production companies all over the world that would either be like a one or two men band or some that are like 30 you know it works for them because that's how it is but everyone has their

own unique needs and you have to figure out what you need to operate. Like obviously if Dario and I was just one of us doing all this, it would be very difficult to be solo. Luckily him and I lean on each other for that. I could handle it. Yeah, maybe he could, who knows. I'm sure both of you can handle it. It's whether or not it would be efficient, you know, is the question. I mean, it's just, and both of you obviously bring different strengths.

And that's why I'm the first one to admit, like, I have a lot of experience shooting and editing, but I would way trust my shooter Paul to go do a real estate shoot because he has this incredible eye for how he moves the gimbal and how he lights the space. So I really try to find people that have really specific strengths. But I mean, I'm still a great editor. I can still put together a great story.

So I'm comfortable doing that on my own. But most shooting, I like to have people in who are just really, really great at what they do. I'm wondering about the Wyoming market. Are there a lot of companies in your space? And is it very competitive? Because it is like a tiny, like, are there a lot of companies in your space? And is, is it very competitive? Cause it is like a tiny, like it's a big state, but also tiny at the same time. Right.

Right. Yeah. So, um, like I was saying here in Jackson, there is this sort of burgeoning production world. And I would say I compete with like maybe two other people for bigger jobs at any given moment. The two or three of us will be bidding on the same projects. And those are mostly Wyoming based projects like or Jackson based projects. Because this is a tourist town, there's no state income tax in Wyoming.

So we have a lot of millionaires and billionaires who park their money here and have property here, which then brings this tourism infrastructure in to play, which is already here because of the national parks. So there are, even though it's a town of 10,000 people, in the summer it triples because everyone comes to their second or third or fourth homes and you know, there's there's like so, you know the rest the tourism based businesses like a rafting company or a restaurant or a business that caters to

Property management. Those are the companies that reach out to me to bid on different projects. So, and those are pretty good budgets. They are all, like I said, realizing how important video is to them and social media. So I'd say like, yeah, there's a lot of freelance videographers, but in terms of actual production companies I'd say maybe like me and one or two other other ones in Jackson in Wyoming in general I would say I'm one of the top Commercial production companies in Wyoming we just shot a cool video for this company based in Texas who is trying to do clean energy and they had us go down to the where they're doing the, there's a lot of oil and gas in Wyoming and we went down to one of the oil zones and shot this huge rig being wheeled in, like with a drone,

I mean this thing is like half of a football field sized rig and then we saw, watched them put the derrick up and time-lapse that. And what they're doing is carbon capture. So a lot of these mines will just throw their emissions into the air and you can just shoot these plumes of smoke just polluting. And this company out of Texas is trying to do clean energy. So they have a technology that captures that carbon before it's released. And they have a technology that captures that carbon before it's released. And they are having us do a series of videos for them

around Wyoming with these rigs that they're building to do that. So that's an example of something more Wyoming based that we would do. But Jackson based is go shoot this sled dog race that just happened in the square or go shoot this ski, you know, we don't do a lot of like hardcore skiing or, you know, go shoot this event that's happening, you know, out of the resort. So it really depends. Like you said, I've had to be really nimble and

be able to kind of take on those bigger jobs, like the oil rig thing. That's like a couple different shooters. That's drones. That's time lapses. That's OSHA standards where my shooters have to wear hard hats. And that's like a bigger kind of commercial production. I feel like you guys kind of do similar maybe corporate stuff like to that anyway. And then there's smaller ones that is just like social media for a company based here in Jackson. So just wondering, because you said you mainly have like two other competitors when you're bidding for bigger projects.

And I'm just wondering, how do you overcome like what are some of the obstacles you're facing when you're just competing with two other competitors when you're bidding for bigger projects. I'm just wondering how do you overcome? Like what are some of the obstacles you're facing when you're just competing with two other companies and how do you overcome those? Yeah, that's a really good question Obviously pricing, you know people will ask for my fruit they'll they'll give me a proposal to bid on and I know what I think I should charge and then I get in my head about it and I'm like, well, what is everyone else going to charge? Should I try to come in lower? And nine times out of 10, I'll kind of stick to what I know.

And sometimes I don't get the job because my prices are too high and or, you know, and I'm okay with that. Like I've come a long way to get to that point because like I said, I've, I devalued myself or the, our services a lot, like, oh, I'll just go down. So I'll get the job. And now if I don't get the job because they're not going to pay what I know that it's worth, that's okay. But that's been a tough journey.

So that happens here and there. Another thing that happens is, so we're mostly like, you know, most of our videos are web-based, social media-based, like rarely are we showing anything on a movie theater screen. But a couple other companies in town have these massive red camera systems. We run an FX3 and other Sonys, they're like the small, but they shoot incredible footage. But I think sometimes people associate good production with the massive camera system, so they see that rolling around, and they're like, oh, that guy knows what he's doing. So sometimes I think that comes into play.

I've invested more on the Sony side, rather than the red side, but I think those red cameras can look really impressive to people, and they kind of take that to be, oh, they really know what they're doing, whereas we do too. That's not as big of a deal,

but I think in the past maybe that has been a factor. And I try to tell people, you need that camera when you're doing like a massive film screening. Like your video's gonna be this big on a webpage. So, you know, we can shoot 4K, like our cameras are amazing, but you know, sometimes that doesn't translate.

It depends on who you're pitching to, right? And if you're pitching to like a direct to client, nine times out of 10 or 10 times out of 10 really, it really doesn't matter what camera you're using as long as you have the basics of what you need to produce something great for them. And like you said, you've invested in a camera system that helps you deliver as a company

and it's a good investment, right? Right. We've heard of production companies that would invest in higher end cameras like Reds and stuff like that. But the problem with that obviously is that it's not good for longevity because you're not gonna use them all the time. It's all about using stuff that works for you.

And it was interesting, one thing you mentioned about when you're pitching, you kind of have a certain number in mind typically when you're pitching for these types of have a certain number in mind typically when you have, when you're, when you're pitching for these types of projects. It makes sense to stick to those because if, um, the more and more you compromise on that, there's a certain cost to benefit ratio that if you kind of surpass that, then you're spending more time than effort on a project that you can be using on other ones, right? Like we know some studios here in Toronto where they have a very strict threshold. Like for example, 10,000, they don't do anything below 10,000.

Even if it's like 9,500, you know, or anything close to that, like we've noticed, like, cause sometimes they would send us some leads, you know, where just to kind of see if we would be able to even take it on sometimes. But, you know, like for them, their cost benefit is like after 10,000, they're gonna be losing on opportunity costs

to work on other projects down the road as well. So you have to figure out what area you're able to be comfortable in and be comfortable to say no to because otherwise you're gonna struggle. You're gonna struggle down the road if to say no to because otherwise you're going to struggle. You're going to struggle down the road if you say yes to everything, right? Exactly. I just had an idea about the camera talk because oftentimes it's like, oh, the

competitor might have like the red system and everything. It could also be a good idea to just add that as an optional add-on to like our proposals where we can pitch to the client. It's like, if you want to go with that route, we can go rent it out. And renting it out is just so much cheaper than investing in it, right? And it's like in terms of cost, it'll basically average out to be the same as what they would be charging anyway. So it's like, if you want to go that way, we can go there, or if we go this way, it'll

be that way. Yeah. And that's happened a few times where they're like, well, what's your camera set up? And I'm kind of like, it's whatever you need, because I have access, like you said, to all my friends that own the red, or the camera people who own the reds are all friends of mine. So there has been a few times over the years where I'm like, look, this client really wants a red, I'll camera people who own the reds are all friends of mine. So there has been a few times over the years where I'm like, look, this client really wants a red,

I'll just hire you for the day. But I really try to tell people, it's just not, because a lot of our production is very mobile and nimble. So a red system, you can't put it on a gimbal, or you can, but you're like, it's like a massive, but like, you know, putting it on a little gimbal is impossible. So, and a lot of our production is more, you know, sort of low profile, you know, sort of run and gun a little bit more documentary feeling

So unless you're doing like a really beautiful sit-down interview or Stationary tripod shot. I just find that like I don't know. I really love the Sony's that we use there They're really they're easy. They're light So yeah Yeah, I've been on some shoots where it was more so like a commercial but you see the gear they use and when they use ARRIs it just increases not just the amount of time needed to set up and shoot but also the personnel need it right because once you get into a cinema camera range it's like okay you can't focus pull yourself you need need a focus puller. And then now you're adding crew and then this and that.

And then you have a crane and yeah. Changes all your costs. It changes all your costs once you start getting into bigger camera systems because yeah, you have to get heavier duty tripods, heavier duty sliders. You can't do the old school, you know, cheaper Amazon sliders, you know, on a red system, you know, that thing is not gonna balance well.

That's not gonna fly, no. No, no, no, and it's, yeah, and as Dario mentioned, like smaller cameras, it's a little bit easier for one person to operate, but the second you start getting into these bigger systems, you need someone to focus pull, you need someone to do steady cam, you need someone that's looking at the lighting,

like you need to hire more people and then, like I said, it depends on who you're pitching to. If you're pitching to clients, they're not gonna look for ways to balloon their costs just to get a fancy camera, you know? Right, right, totally. Yeah, and like, you know, we will get bigger corporate videos, like a big finance firm that is coming in to do a big offsite here, and we'll shoot a bunch of interviews, and

we need them to look just absolutely amazing. So I'll have my friend with the red come, and we'll do a second camera angle, and we'll do all these beautiful lights, but they, you know, shoot with daylight behind them, and it's just like the most beautiful. So we have those capabilities. Like Tower 3 Productions, I call myself a full service. Like when we're actually shooting our own client stuff, it's more pared down, but we do location scouting

and we do crewing and I can put together, like I said, my background is in as being a producer. So if somebody comes in to town and says that we wanna shoot a car commercial, I'm like, okay, this is what you need. You need permits to shoot here. You cannot shoot here. You can't shoot drone here.

It's national park. You need, you know, da da da da da. This is when the light is best at this, you know, like, so we can kind of like produce those bigger shoots for people, which I do from time to time as well. It's almost like you're a fixer and like a production service at the same time, right? Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm just wondering, because you're like a woman in a mostly male-dominated industry, did you have any obstacles you faced when you first entered the space? Well, I mean mean that's a that's such an interesting question. When I was coming like after I graduated from college in Los Angeles and I moved to New York and was first an intern then a PA in New York City at these huge corporate production companies. Sure there was definitely some like I was the only girl a lot, you know, doing like,

like I said, driving these vans around, hauling this gear. But I feel really, really fortunate to say in my whole career, no one has ever, yeah, crossed the line with me or, you know, I've had a, I had a mentor in Los Angeles, a man who took me from show to show to show. He was like an executive producer and he would produce these shows. I became his sort of second and he would bring me along to all of his shows and you know, that was really forth, you know, so I don't know. I was really lucky kind of back in those days when I was working in the big cities.

Since I started my own production company, like I said in the beginning, I think that came into play. I was young. I was just starting out. There was everyone else besides me was a guy and trying to do the same thing. Now I still am the only woman-owned production company in Jackson. And I don't know to my face if that comes into play, if I'm getting jobs or not because of that, but I really don't think so.

I just think at this point, I've built up a reputation and we have so many happy, very pleased clients over the years that I think, I think, I think, no, I think I'm respected, I respect my peers. There's just a real nice- One good thing, obviously, is that your work speaks for itself, your professionalism comes through whenever you're talking to people. So it's good to know that like that's what's keeping you

going throughout this industry. And it's tough for everybody, right? Like there's, everyone has like their own unique set of challenges whenever you're trying to get into this space. You know, some people might have a harder time running a production company, but do great while freelancing. Whereas other ones might not be doing as good freelancing, but would be better like running their own shop.

There's such varying degrees. And that's one thing we try to keep stressing on the show. And when we're talking to everyone is that your unique situation is you. You can't see what other people are doing and think, oh, I should be doing that. It's like, you don't know what struggles they're having behind the scenes.

Their struggles are probably something that you figured out and vice versa, right? So it's trying to make sure that you're not Comparing yourself too often, but But yeah, one of the the biggest obstacles I think we faced was ourselves in this industry like because all the roadblocks, if we look back and analyze our history, it's always been. I told you, fire alarm. This is the first time I knew was going gonna happen eventually He might have to go on the podcast, oh my god

Now they have to repeat it they have to repeat it I'm telling you it's gonna happen again You think this one's this is the first time it's happened. It's only happened like once or twice during the day. Our building doesn't get too many the across from us are three buildings that are connected via a walkway and they get it daily. Like maybe twice daily and the thing is because they're connected via that walkway yeah when one of them gets it all all of them get triggered yeah that's terrible that's like that's the dumbest design i've ever seen in a condo building so all three buildings are like i see it i see it across the street every day every night one of them gets triggered like

constantly oh my god we got a break so Dario can continue his point. So, yeah. Yes. So obstacle. Going back to obstacles. Yeah, I find that the biggest obstacles in our in our company have always been ourselves. Like if I look back or analyze like our history, it's always been one of us setting up a roadblock, be it like a mental roadblock or just, I don't know, like we just wouldn't do something that we needed to do maybe because

of fear or anxiety. And it's only once you overcome those that you look back and you're like, what was I doing? Like I was just like handicapping myself for no reason. Yeah, I've had those moments. And I'm the first one to admit I've dive just done some things on with some client work that I look back on and then Yeah, and I'm like, oh no, I that wasn't the right call, you know, but I'm learning as I go and Be out like you said, I think we all have our own set of challenges and But yeah, like you said, I think we all have our own set of challenges and, you know, I have my peers in this tiny town are incredibly talented. So if I don't absolutely nail a project with a big client, it's really easy for them to

be like, oh, well, we'll just see how these other people do. And then if they do great, it's like, oh, suddenly they're working with them. But it's funny, it's like, there's this attrition and then they kind of come back and it's just like, people kind of play us off each other. Well, oh, tower three did it this way. Can you do it better?

So I've just had to really learn to be like, okay with the ebb and flow of small business where like I said this time of year we're really slow. We just don't have a lot going on. You know, but I still have to pay my people and that gives me this like pit and I'm like ugh. But then come May, May, June, July, August, September here for us is like drinking from a fire hose. It's just like all the people want their videos

because it's beautiful out. All my nonprofits want their nonprofit fundraising videos to be shown at their summer events. All the real estate, all the weddings. I have a whole wedding side of my business. We do like 20 wedding videos a summer. Those are huge, you know, so it's just like, so I have had to really learn to be like,

okay, I'm really slow. January is really slow. And I tell myself that every year, even though it's been 15 years, so. Yeah, no, it's interesting you mentioned also the wedding side of the business, because a lot of companies who do weddings or corporate videos, commercial projects, usually people tend to separate those two, but you kind of keep them together almost. So what has that been like for you when it comes to when it comes to kind of like managing the two different types of clientele because it's very different pitching to wedding clients

versus corporate and commercial. Absolutely, that's such a great question. For a while, Kira, my old employee and I would just do it all and these wedding, the wedding clients are so, you're right, so different from a corporate client. I mean, it's so personal to them and every little thing is so personal and then we get into the edit and they're right, so different from a corporate client. I mean, it's so personal to them, and every little thing is so personal.

And then we get into the edit and they're like, well, where's Uncle Bob and where's Aunt Mary, and the wedding planner's involved, and it's tedious, it's hard. And so one summer, Kira came to me and she's like, I can't do this anymore. I can't shoot weddings on the weekends, because I had been like, I'm tapped out of weddings.

No way. And so she sort of started doing them. Then she was like, no way. So what I've done is I've sort of separated that side of the business off. And I've hired somebody who is not full time, but he's full time in the summer because he's our wedding video producer.

He has his own email. He runs the show. When I get an inquiry, I'll send out our price sheet, I'll get the contract locked in, and then I just push it to him and he oversees everything from that point forward. If he can't shoot it or edit it, he will find the freelancer to make sure it works. He and I have a sort of a compensation split that works for both of us. So that's been really nice. So it's sort of off our plates. Although trying to get paid after all these weddings are done, I just finally got the last payment from a wedding we did in June. So that's always like,

then that falls back on me is to get everyone to pay us. So I am involved here and there, but like that, that's an interesting, weddings are really interesting. You know, it actually is a great test of a, of a, of a videographer because it's like a covering a lot of six to eight hour live event, you know, and you cannot miss certain things or people are going to be pissed. Like you can't miss the first look or you can't miss the cake or you can't, you know, and so it's, it's, I do not like my wedding video shooters are I'm like, you guys are a special breed because it is, it's like, like I said, like covering a full on live event with a lot of really very emotional clients involved.

So yeah. I'm just wondering, how do you manage to focus on both businesses because they can, they can take up a lot of time, right? How do I run both businesses was the question. And so it comes back to that seasonality thing. Summer is when they all happen. I have Josh set up to go. That's his only thing he does in the summer.

So he runs that. Most of the proposals and contracts happen from now until like, people will hire us all summer, but most are like from now until May, I'm contracting, I'm estimating. So it actually works pretty well because I'm doing a lot of wedding inquiries now when we're slow to build up our summer production schedule for weddings, and then when Tower3 is busy doing more corporate stuff and non-profit stuff, real estate, Josh is overseeing the weddings.

And there's a little bit of a dance in the office of making sure we're backing up all the footage, making sure he is coming in after each wedding, making sure all the footage, you know, we've had some issues with that before where footage has got, you know, it's mostly like a storage issue, just making sure everything's together. And then he'll kind of oversee all that. So it's like a dance that has been working out pretty well. I can't, we're pretty much maxed out at 20 weddings, so I'm trying to, but I have a hard time saying no so I Josh is like don't take on anymore okay and then we'll get another one I'm like oh but uh so just just keeping that that dance going but having him oversee the wedding side of the business the production side the actual shooting and editing and

client correspondence is extremely helpful. Yeah, the operations are one thing when it comes to running a wedding company versus a corporate company. I mean, the one benefit of a wedding studio is that you can develop more kind of systemic systems in terms of like how you go in terms of the whole process, because most weddings are very much the same or very similar to the point where you know what kind of work

is going to be expected with each one so you can kind of cost price it out very easily. But the one challenge obviously is how do you brand yourself or market yourself as a company especially if you're doing both services because they're such different businesses. how do you brand yourself or market yourself as a company, especially if you're doing both services because they're such different businesses. Have you found yourself facing some challenges, you know, where some corporate or commercial clients, you know, would be like, oh, you do weddings or do you do corporate?

You know, because you have both of those portfolios on your website. So what has that been like navigating it for you? Yeah, I don't know. I've always had that question. Like I hope that the fact that we have like a wedding side of the business doesn't discount us from the rest of the things.

And I have had that thought of like, should I take it completely off and do like a whole different like Tower3weddings website so that it's not even related. But I don't know I think that we rank Really well an SEO organic SEO for just video production in Wyoming in general And so then people go on the site and the first thing they see We structure the website is just a lot of like corporate style video reels, drone reels,

non-profit reels. And then you have to click on a different page to see wedding video. So, I don't know, that's a really good question and it is something I've thought about. The market here is pretty small and I do like to market us as like an all-in-one, is pretty small and I do like to market us as like an all in one, you know, we're a one stop shop. Um, but that's something I've considered as sort of just carving it completely out and having it be its own website, not even on ours. So, yeah, cause the, there's a flip side also to what you just mentioned where, like,

you may not be having that issue so much on the corporate side because you've structured your website where the first thing people see is a lot of corporate and commercial based content. So you're fine on the corporate side, but now what happens when a wedding lead comes to your website and they don't see any wedding content? Do you feel like you might be losing out on some, I mean maybe it works out for you

because you can only do 20 weddings a year, obviously, but how many leads would you potentially be losing because they don't see any wedding content right away? It's another step for them to kind of get to, right? Yeah, no, it's a really good point. If the wedding business continues to be as strong, I have thought about that. A lot of our wedding video leads, though,

come from wedding planners in Jackson, who they get the client. And then the client's like, oh, is there a videographer? And they'll put us directly in touch with them. And then we'll just, you know. So I need to look at our rankings for wedding video Jackson Hole. I think we're not one of the top One or two, I think we might be three

There are some other people who like you said they just do that But yeah, maybe we would we would be top one or two if we had our own Website so that was like just weddings. So yeah, it's something that it's been on my mind for sure that was like just weddings. So yeah, it's something that has been on my mind for sure. I just want to ask one of my last questions, which is if you could go back in time to when you first started Tower 3, what is something that you would do different? What I would do differently is like I talked about, I had a little bit of, you know, I wasn't super confident yet in my abilities. I wish I would have just had a lot more confidence to go out and just really go out and pitch Tower 3. It took a while. It took, you know, five or six years

to really get to where we were competitive in the space. And I think it could have happened a lot faster had, maybe even longer, maybe seven or eight years. I think it could have happened a lot faster had I just been like, look, this is who I am, this is what I do. But instead, like I said, I think I did a lot of undercutting myself and kind of doubting myself. So I wish I would have had more confidence. I wish I could have had the forethought to know this is gonna be an actual thing. I just had a lot of self-doubt.

Is this gonna work out? Can I actually do this? All these other people I'm competing against are so good You know so just kind of knowing that I was I was a player as well Would have helped I think now I know now I know but back then it was just but I think that comes a lot with I'm sure you guys have experienced it to starting a business and having that doubt and Feeling like you are up against a lot, a lot, you know?

Yeah. And with any, with anything you do or anything that's worth doing, you're always trying to figure out how you can improve. And, and, and sometimes that thinking can kind of get in the way of like simple tasks, which is one big obstacle a lot of people face when they're running their own company, where it's like you might be pitching a project and you've pitched the same thing many times, but then you think to yourself, oh, but is this different?

Is this a different circumstance? Do I need to maybe pitch a little lower or just to make sure we get it? And sometimes the biggest challenge is remembering to try to stick to your systems and not be affected with your decisions when you have outside factors. Because sometimes one of the biggest things a lot of people in our industry face,

especially with down seasons or time where you're not making as much money, you're a little bit more willing to compromise on your rules on terms of like what projects you can take on, you know, just to make sure you're getting work coming in. But then, and so yeah, you might get some more income from that, but then down the road, who knows,

who knows like what other opportunities you could have you missed out on because of that. But anyway, like the whole point is like, you have to be sure of, you know, who be sure of who you are and what your capabilities are. And as a result, you'll be able to kind of push forward a little further. But I know we're kind of like- And I started my business right around the same time

with some other guys and they had that confidence. And initially out of the gate, they were crushing it. Now we're similar, but they you know, they had that kind of blind confidence. I just didn't quite have that. When the competition is doing really well and it's very, very close competition, like how it is for you in Wyoming, like you said, there's like a few players there and everyone knows each other. So seeing some do better than you, it can be, a few players there and everyone knows each other. So seeing some do better than you, it can affect you in many different ways, you know?

Whereas Dario and I, we're in Toronto, which is a huge city and there's thousands of production companies, you know? We kind of have a way of kind of like blocking all the noise out a little bit more and just trying to focus on us, which is what we're trying to do more of now, which I think has been helping. But don't forget those competitors have the same doubts

and fears that you have. Yeah, that's a good point. Some people are just good at putting up masks and you know, smoke and mirrors, but they're going through the same issues or Instagram pages, you know, don't trust people's Instagram feeds. I know. I know. I it's it, it, it, it, you're, you're so right that're so right that if I don't get a, if I bid on something

and I don't get it, I know exactly who did. It could be one of two other people or companies here, for the most part, 99% of the time. It would be nice to be in a more ambiguous space where I wasn't always positive of who else was getting the work. But like you said, Dario, it's true. My competitors were all fighting the same little battle here. It's not even a battle. And strangely enough, for as small as this town is there's enough work to go around so I don't you know now that I'm kind of marketing myself from more

broader Wyoming I'm getting these other where all other work around the state it just doesn't I've had and that's part of the the growth of the business is just knowing like okay I didn't get that job this time. That client went this direction. They'll come back or if they don't come back, an iteration of them will come back or I'll work with, you know, so I've just had to be like, it's a lot of radical acceptance, like just, okay, it's going to be, it's going to be okay. You know, it's going to be okay.

And, and it for the most part always is, you know, sometimes are slower, sometimes are faster. My main priority is, sometimes they're faster. My main priority is just keeping my people working. I wanna make, like during COVID, that was like my initial, I was like, oh God, I just have to keep Kira employed. And luckily we had enough work, strangely. I don't know if you guys felt this during COVID, but I feel like video production like skyrocketed. I don't know if you guys felt this during COVID, but I feel like video production

like skyrocketed. I don't know why I feel like it did here. But everyone was like, going back to their websites, looking at their websites, looking at their marketing. So we actually did great during COVID. But yeah, it's just taking care of my people and keeping us relevant. And that's having an SEO person and a social media manager and all those things to keeping us Keeping us out there keeping our company out there

I just wanted to touch back on another thing you mentioned or I guess I don't know which one of you mentioned either You're a Carol in terms of being anonymous and bidding wars But I actually noticed that even here when I would ask some of my leads who else they were talking to, it did turn out to be like usually the same to other companies. Yeah. So even in a big city, like you might end up competing with only a couple of other people, right? Because again, they only go through like the first two pages at most,

or like the Google map pack. And so you'll always be grouped in with whoever's ranking on there. Totally. Yeah. And I do invest in, in that. Uh, so we're number, I think we're number one or two for Jackson, for Wyoming print video production. And then, you know, I get a lot of five star reviews on purpose so that we can be up there with that Google business map thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when it comes to like, when you're, when you're pitching yourself against a lot of the same companies, you're always trying to also think of different ways to kind of stand out or to even like bring in other new business. You mentioned one, one key difference that different thing you started doing was you started marketing yourself a little bit more broadly in Wyoming as a state rather than just in your smaller kind of pocket.

Like how did you go about doing that in terms of marketing yourself to like a broader region? Yeah, that's a good question. I got involved with the Wyoming Film Office, which is just a state organization that helps people who are looking to do production in Wyoming. I've put my name out there to lots of different productions that do production in Wyoming and the West. And then, like I said, hiring a social media or a SEO organic search manager, that was a big investment because it was not cheap and that was like maybe three years ago and he has staggered this plan for me where I didn't

have to pay it all at one time and he kind of did these fixes over the years. But he's helped me in the way that my website reads, the different keywords I have where it's not just Jackson Jackson Jackson, It's a lot of Wyoming production. And it's really worked really well. So now when people search video production in Wyoming, I come up one or two. And then I got a call for a bid on something Colorado the other day because I came up in some search results which was interesting. So yeah I think that SEO is

a huge component of that and just being strategic about how I'm structuring my website. And then social media too although you know I've worked on my social media here and there and I mean, it's great. But for corporate clients like that you guys have and that I have, they're not going to hire somebody because of their Instagram page, like that kind of client. Maybe a wedding client might, or a local tourism business might.

But like an oil and gas company from Texas, they're not like, oh, this girl has a thousand, how many thousand? I don't know. So I think, I don't know if you guys have found that, that's not a huge factor for me yet. No, it's, yeah, it all comes down to who you're pitching to at the end of the day.

And, you know, if you have a certain clientele that you know what they value and you know how to appeal to that, then that's all you can really do at that point. But we're kind of reaching that one hour, past that one hour mark. And we have a little tradition at the end of every episode, we like to ask how people came up

with the names for their company. So what made you land on Tower 3 and not Tower 4 productions? That's a really good question. So I live here in Jackson Hole. It's a big, you know, we have a huge ski resort, one of the biggest ones and you know, well-known ones in North America. I grew up skiing. I'm a big skier. It's one of my passions. So when I was trying to, when I was trying to name my company, I was like, God, I have no idea. And a friend of mine said, well, what's your favorite ski run?

And I was like, oh my God, I'm not naming my company after a ski run. That's so lame. And then I was like, God, my favorite ski run is this run called Tower 3, which is under the third tram tower of the Jackson Hole Tram. And it's this steep chute that kind of comes in between these big cliffs and rocks and you go down. I love it, it's a great run. And then the more I thought about it, I was like,

yeah, it has a ring to it, it really does. And I sort of started asking my friends and they were like, that's such a great name. And I like it because it sounds like if you're not from here here it can sound sort of productiony you know broadcasty you know it's got a it's got a production sound but if you're from here you know oh Tower 3 the run the ski run so I went with it and it's been really really successful I think the number three is powerful and so I liked to incorporate it in my business name. And then we abbreviate it T3P, which I like too.

It can be easily abbreviated. So. Nice. It's a great name. It definitely sparks curiosity. That's the main thing when you're coming up with a name for a company, like have it spark a little curiosity.

It's got a great story to it, which is awesome. But anyway, so if anyone needs to find you, it's a tower3productions.com. Yes. Yes. And Instagram is at the same at tower3productions. Yep. And it's the number three. So not, yeah, sorry.

The number three. I was going to clarify. Yeah. Yeah. No, but Alden, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing your experience and your story. And it's a great, great conversation. Thank you. Yeah.

It was so awesome. And Dario, hopefully your apartment building isn't on fire. I hope not. Sounds quiet. Sounds quiet there. No, I don't see smoke. So he's good. Watch.

It's going to come on any minute now. Well, it was awesome talking to you guys. I really appreciate what you're doing and reaching out to people like me. I think it's really important and awesome. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks guys.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Please make sure to follow and engage with us on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, and your favorite podcast app. Creative Scrap Coffee is created by Laps Productions, a video production company based in Toronto, Canada. Creative Scrap Coffee is also sponsored by... My name is Mehran. Welcome to Canada Film Equipment.

We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you are a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages, or lighting and group plan packages. You can see our contact information in the link below. We are more than happy to help you guys out.

Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativesgrapcoffee.com. Thank you. doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, Foley. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto. We got you covered. Come on down, audioprocess.ca. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things

to creativesgrabcoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you. I'll be waiting for you. And we're all gonna have a real good time. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next one. have a real good time. Thanks for listening and we'll see you on the next one.