Creatives Grab Coffee - Video in Modern Marketing | Creatives Grab Coffee 75

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, hosts Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov engage with Sean Webster from Mac n' Cheese Media. They explore the unique name of Sean's company, his journey into video production, and the challenges of balancing parenthood with a creative career. The conversation delves into the impact of COVID-19 on their business, the importance of building relationships with clients, and the evolving role of video in marketing strategies. Sean shares insights on targeted outreach, networking, and the significance of ad distribution in maximizing video marketing effectiveness. In this conversation, Kyrill, Dario, and Sean discuss the importance of experimentation in content creation, the challenges of navigating budget constraints in marketing, and the effectiveness of problem-solution marketing strategies. They emphasize the necessity of knowing when to say no to clients and the critical role of cold outreach in business growth. The discussion also highlights creative approaches to networking and outreach, underscoring the value of building genuine relationships in the industry.Chapters00:00 - Introduction and The Story Behind the Name13:25 - From Sales to Marketing to Video Production16:03 - The Importance of Integrating Video into Marketing Strategies21:44 - Making Video a Priority in Marketing Campaigns29:00 - Building Relationships and Working with Legacy Brands29:29 - Cold Outreach and Building Partnerships48:28 - Saying No and Aligning with Client Goals54:52 - Testing and Experimentation in Video Marketing01:00:24 - Balancing Resources and Time01:03:37 - The Importance of Networking and Outreach01:04:23 - The Limitations of Referrals01:05:43 - Building Genuine Connections and Multiple Touchpoints01:11:04 - Creative Approaches to Outreach01:17:39 - Being Proactive and Taking Risks01:23:27 - Introducing Canada Film EquipmentSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vHd8BdbkMQITFZmDJ0bo9🍏 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/creatives-grab-coffee/id1530864140 🎞️Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.comTo learn more about the show, visit: https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/

Welcome to Creative Scrap Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creative Scrap Coffee is hosted by Dario Nuri and Kirill Lazerov from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors. Do you have a shoot in Toronto?

Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? Laps Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. Laps Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs.

Reach out to us on our website at LAPSProductions.com to learn more. My name is Mehran, welcome to Canada Film Equipment. We are a boutique rental house based in Toronto. We are here to help you guys out with all production sizes. Feel free to contact us to get a quote if you're a production house and you're looking for lighting, camera packages or lighting and group plan packages. You can see our contact information in the link below. We are more than happy to help you guys out.

Make sure you follow and subscribe to creativesgrapcoffee.com. Thank you. Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Matt. Welcome to Audio Process. We are a boutique audio company doing location sound, sound design, post sound, ADR, Foley. We service equipment. We do all your audio needs here in Toronto. We got you covered.

Come on down. AudioProcess.ca. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all of the other internet things to creativesgrabcoffee.com. They'll be waiting for you, I'll be waiting for you, and we're all gonna have a real good time. And now, let's begin the show.

Okay, guys, we got a special treat for you today. Today on Creatives Grab Coffee, we got Sean from Mac and Cheese, and contrary to popular belief, it's not a food company. So we got a special treat for you today. Today on Creatives Grab Coffee, we got Sean from Mac and Cheese. And contrary to popular belief, it's not a food company. What do we do? We interview people from video production companies. So we got a unique name here, that's for sure.

So Sean, just before we kind of jump into it, tell us a little bit about how you came up with Mac and Cheese for your company name. Man, I really wish it was a much cooler story than this. But so my business partners are music people. Like they just got a record deal last year and they're out making humorous music. Kind of like Weird Al Yankovitch style,

Lonely Island, that type of music. So creating content with them was, it's called Austin and Colin So they should be they're actually pitching the the final record today Actually as as we speak so anyways, they they've always created really humorous stuff and Basically it was we wanted to create a brand that was Professional looking but also, but also kind of

lean into our more humorous side of things that was just kind of fun because we just love to do the more humorous side of content. So we honestly sat in probably a room for about six and a half, seven hours just throwing different names at the board and just got to a point where it was like, this is stupid. We're not going to land on anything because we just didn't want to be like every other production company, you know, like Blue Sky Media, you know, I don't know, I can't really come up with anything off the top of it. We wanted something was fun and

like stood out. It was just different. And literally, we went and got lunch came back and my business partner was like, hey man, let's just go for like 30 more minutes. And I said, okay, let's just try this. Let's just use our middle initials. Let's see what we come up with doing that. So mine's Matthew, then it was Aaron and then Connor. And it was like Mac.

I was like, oh my gosh, this is going to be stupid. And so we just like, you know, just started just being funny, just throwing random things out. And one of my, you know, just started just being funny, just throwing random things out of one of my business partners said, what about mac and cheese? And I was like. And the other one said mac and cheese media. And I just I went to the media, sold them on it. The media did.

I thought he was going to say we were eating mac and cheese for lunch. And then we're like, what about mac and cheese media? No, and here's the thing. It has been probably one of the most impactful things that we did because it literally, like anytime that we walk into one of our shoots and we've got shoots, we've got like massive noodles on the front of them and everybody is always just like, where did you get that shirt? And I don't know.

It's a stupid as simple as shirt, but it is literally the most memorable thing. And everybody's always like Mac and cheese. And they just, you know, it's so, it's stuck. We loved it. And every time we're in a pitch and there's multiple people, like it always just gets picked up. It's like, who are these people?

So it just resonates with just kind of like who we are. There's a sense of nostalgia with Mac and cheese and it's, you know, something that's mac and cheese. And it's you know, something that's comforting and fun. And it's like it's we just love it. But at the end of the day, man, there was not a really cool story. But you know, I'm, I'm pretty glad that we stuck with it just because we stand out and people are always like, who are these guys, especially when we walk in with these needle shirts,

and I've got to actually get them on my website, because people are always like, where can I buy that? And it's just the opportunity on my part. But yeah, man, I've been telling Carol for the past five years that we should be rebranding to pizza productions. And I think I think I think this episode has sealed it for us. And you know, the easiest way to this one is never mentioned this one. The easiest way to pitch it is well, you know, video production is like a pizza. There are many different types, many different toppings. Different ways you can slice it.

Different ways you can slice it. That's true. I will say though, it really does resonate your name. And like, I remember when I first remember when Dario first set it up and I saw the name of your company, I'm like, mac and cheese, I'm curious what kind of content. Did you feel hungry, Kirill? I mean, I'm wondering.

Luckily, I'd just eaten oatmeal before I went on, so I was already kind of full. But you're thinking about it, maybe I want to get some mac and cheese. I want some mac and cheese. Classic KD. I will say, there are times when people will reach out and they're like, you know, do you guys like what are you guys are like food companies?

So it does happen sometimes. Yeah, so we've had we've had that happen for a time lapse. We've had that happen for time lapse productions or like time lapse videos. Like they'll reach out. It's like you guys do time lapses. And I was like, no, but maybe we should. time lapse productions or like time lapse videos, like they'll reach out. You guys do time lapses. And I was like, no, but maybe we should. I'm just I'm just trying to say we're

going to get branded like mac and cheese bowls that we basically just like as we sign on a new client, like send them, you know, branded mac and cheese with a really cool looking spoon and just be like, welcome to the family, guys. Nice. That's awesome. Branded mac and cheese with a really cool looking spoon. And you still welcome to the family, guys. Nice. That's good. That's a lot better than a mug. So cheesy. So cheesy. It is cheesy.

If you knew my business partner, well, and they do that all the time. Like dad jokes are never, never not in just full amount around here. So one of one of our friends just had a baby and he's been sending us like dad reels on Instagram and in the group chat. I don't know. We've been trying to tell them they're not too funny, but like he keeps sending them now and I've noticed like a descent into dadness that I don't like too much Well, and you got kids no no no

You got a video in the future you got DP DP, you got audio, you got P.A. for that direct director. Now, I think I think one is going to be a politician. One of them is going to be an entrepreneur. One is going to be a pastor and one of them is going to be either a princess. How do you know this already? If they're all different directions, two of them are already in college. Oh, OK, OK. So how old are you? already like they're all different directions

college okay okay so yeah 40 so okay but still and you have to be okay 20 yeah I was still a kid still a very young kid Just I can't imagine having a kid at 20 It was difficult. I had twins at 20 Well, not me physically, but yeah Which Schwarzenegger when he when he gets pregnant Could have been him No, but so I've got twins that are 20. I've got a 12 year old and then I've got a four year old.

So my wife decided she wanted to start all over again. So I think that is a big gap. I'll be I'll be 56 by the time everyone else out of the house. So that's not that's not terrible, but. It's not bad. It's not bad. I'm curious, having kids and two kids so early on in life, how did you go about your career in that sense,

right out the gate? I know a lot of people in our space first work in the industry for a while. They're waiting to get their career settled before they have kids. Or at least started, right? Did your kids come before you jumped into video or like started your business or how did that go?

No, dude, I actually kind of accidentally ended a video. So my background is in graphic design and marketing. And that's kind of like what I went to college for. I had a very colorful past. Well, to say I'm a recovering drug addict, alcoholic, you know, sitting over 16 years clean, but at the same time, you know, definitely having kids pushed me into really growing up,

had a lot of dad issues, you know, blamed him for a lot of things and allowed that victim mindset to sit in for a really, really long time until I basically decided that I don't want to be the dad that I had. So honestly, they really propelled me and pushed me into a place of just trying to figure it out. And because of that, I actually didn't even get into graphic design and marketing for probably another eight years of their life because I had to just feed them. I had

to provide. So I got into sales and stayed in sales for quite a long time. I did personal training sales. I worked at a car dealership. I did roofing insurance sales. I did all kinds of stuff. And then basically decided when I hit it was it was one of those moments where you know, because I had kids so young, I never really like had this like aha moment that was like I'm not a kid anymore, but something happened when I hit 30 and my kids were 10. It was just like, you know, I think I it hit me it was like, I can't be a kid anymore. Like I don't have any more excuses. Like I'm a 30 year old adult that has kids that are 10. And it's like, I've got to get my shit together, like really. And I really just kind of started doubling down. And I, you

know, I had gone gotten, you know, my bachelor's in graphic design, and I loved marketing, and I really wanted to do that. But unfortunately, because I didn't do anything with it, I had to start all the way down at the very bottom. So I got an internship at a college here in middle Tennessee, and it quickly grew past an internship, but just really got heavy into graphic design. Ended up getting picked up by a small boutique agency here in Nashville, and it was really just me, him, and another person

for the first year. But we grew that company to 45, 50 clients on monthly retainers of four to $6,000 a month in a little over two years. And just loved it. And I got to get into a lot of aspects of marketing because it didn't have the means to kind of hire on

other people. I was avid. I wanted to learn. I was just consuming so much. That was really when social media was really starting to get going. I was just learning all aspects of marketing and what that looked like. That really just grew my desire to learn marketing. I got to start working with small businesses and basically started teaching marketing and

basic design principles to a lot of different small businesses and got really good at that. Ended up going working for a company, 101 is their marketing director. It was really fun. It was for a company called Cartronics and they customize cars, stereo systems, lighting, all that. It was super fun, but I got really bored with it after about 10 months just because I was doing the same thing for the same company all the time. I missed that customer interaction.

I missed different types of businesses. So I went back to the agency world. And basically what I learned going back to the agency world is that I just loved the customer interaction. I loved helping small businesses grow. And it really just started just kind of developing this like yarn inside of me to kind of do something more than what I was doing.

I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what it was at that point. And ended up getting let go from that company, just timing and everything. It just wasn't right. And basically decided, hey, I'm going to start my own marketing agency. I'm not going to do this for anybody else. You know, I've already proven that I can do this for companies. Like I'm just going to do this for anybody else. I've already proven that I can do this for other companies. I'm just going to do it for me. So I started my own marketing agency and two guys that

I had worked with back in the first agency because we had hired them as our internal video people, but they were still external contractors. They basically were like, hey, we know you went on your own. We know you've been doing ad buying. We know you know how to do marketing stuff, which you want to help us with our brand. We're doing video stuff. We don't know how to get it out there. We don't know how to distribute it. We just need some help. I was like, yeah, sure. I've got the time. Let's do it. So we worked out a little deal. And these are guys I've built a friendship with over the years and just love the content and stuff that they did. and started having a lot of fun and really just helping them grow that brand doing just ad

distribution for them and just you know cleaning up their brand with the graphic design parts help them build a website you know just really lean in with that and like during that period they had a company who is actually mac and cheese's longest-standing client still to this day. But basically they wanted my business partners or just these two guys at the time. They wanted them to create a marketing song for their business. And the guys were like, yep, we'll do it. We'll kind of be your brand ambassadors, like the Sonic guys of your company, like we'll do this.

But we want to bring in our friend to help you get it out there because we don't feel like you guys You know we feel like it would be better served if we you guys had some help on the ad buying side So we basically went in they pitched their services. I pitched mine And you know the the company jumped on board and you know, we did you know little over a hundred thousand hundred twenty $120,000 marketing campaign, ended up winning seven interspecific awards for that company and just absolutely loved the entire process of it. That was really the first time I had been in production on the production side of things instead of just hiring somebody to do video for us, coming up with some ideas and then going and doing it and then coming back and

saying here's your video. That was where I actually got to see what pre-production looked like, what it looked like in the ideation, how that actually informed the ideas and how we can form that together with our marketing stuff. One of the things that I always had when I worked in the marketing agency world was that video was kind of one of those things that was the last thing to be thought about. It was just like, oh, we got to do a video, just throw it together. And it's like, cool. And as a marketer, I just never really liked the content that I had to actually market with. So being able to be in this and actually like be a part

of the process and like, you know, have it be informed by the marketing side of it. Like I was just like, this is just so much better. And then being able to like push it out into the world, look at the metrics, see how things were going, you know, make different cut downs of it, you know, put this stuff on the landing page and really just like build this holistic marketing plan built around the video.

Instead of just like building this idea and this campaign around the goal, yes, the video had that goal in mind, but it was like we built everything with the video is like, this is the, this is the key component. This is the thing that's going to be one of those first interactions that people are going to see that's going to help people, you know, instantly connect with us to help them like, know and trust us. And it's like by being able to focus on the marketing side of that video, and then using that video to be put out in the world, it like, it just, it did amazing things. So when we won those seven awards and we were sitting in Vegas and, you know, we were going up

and, you know, getting these awards, it was was just it was an amazing experience and we basically decided it's like guys we've got to do this again like let's start kind of pitching some people so we we had a couple other clients um that we were working with and we were trying to like pitch both of our services but it was kind of weird it's like you know you come into a room that you set up with these people and it's like, okay, like here's this company and oh yeah, here's this other company. And we were like, it was kind of like we were there together, but it was almost felt like we were almost competing. And it was really confusing and I couldn't figure out how to like, I couldn't figure

out how to package it. So we basically just had some really hard conversations and it was like, guys, let's shut down our own companies, let's join together and let's do this thing. And so we opened up in February of 2019. And yeah, man, that was that's really how it started. You guys chose an interesting time because the month after that, the world went to hell. No, it was it was almost a year, like just just over a year. Like we did like we did really amazing things in 2019.

I think by the end of 2019, we had hit almost $200,000 in revenue that first year, which isn't crazy, but coming out of the gate, we were super stoked about it. Then COVID happened and it was just like, oh my god, what are we going to do? But you know, we basically just decided that, you know, we we really loved working together. I at that point, he decided that I was kind of done with marketing, not necessarily done, but like, I just didn't want to like do full service marketing for companies anymore. And I really loved production. You know, my role typically in production for the majority

of the time has been in producing or being an art director. And I've just I've absolutely loved every part of it. And you know, we we approach every client with the idea of the marketing objective in mind. And it's like that is the main driving focus for everything that we do. Of course, you've got your event recaps and conferences and corporate head interviews and stuff like that that don't really need a ton of marketing stuff behind it. And we do those things. We don't love doing those things. That's not what we're continuing to grow into. But those moments when we get to work

with clients like you can see here in the back, like Icy, you know, they're a massive, massive company. And I think, you know, Dario, I'm pretty sure you said you hadn't heard of Icy, right? No, you mentioned that in the intro call, I don't think we have it in Canada. Do we? We do. We do. We've seen it at gas stations. I've seen it at gas stations. Yeah. You got to get an IC, man. That is like one of the most iconic things.

He's still pitching for them. Dude, love IC. It was like one of those. Yeah, it was one of those legacy brands. Like they've been around forever. So like Icy, Dippin' Dots, Harlem Globetrotters, a lot of these companies that have been around forever but never really used video and they're now coming into the age where everybody's doing video and it's like you have to do it.

So being able to link arms with them and really kind of lean into marketing and the overall ideation process and coming up with content that can kind of service those goals, man, that's what really drives us. That's what we love doing. Like, yes, we love creating narrative story-based content. We love doing the humorous side of stuff. But at the end of the day, we want to make sure that we're basically serving the end goal in mind. And it's not just to create a really cinematic, pretty video, you know, that's

basically like this little cool brochure, but it serves the purpose of the marketing objective. You know, I, you mentioned the, how you used to work at a marketing agency. And I'm just curious, cause you, you were on the inside basically, right? And I'm just curious because you were on the inside basically, right? How was the experience in creating video content being in a marketing agency and not having the background? And also, why do they always place it as a low priority? There's so many different things that are going on on the campaign side of things from strategy to managing customer budgets to distribution models and how we're going to get those things out there.

PR pieces, building the social media strategy behind it, the email marketing strategy, prepping the landing pages. There's just so many little pieces that have to be put together. If you don't have an internal video team actually inside of those conversations, it's just such a foreign thing for them. And they're just like, guys, here's the idea. Here's this.

And for us, it was like, guys, we just need a video to do this. And like, we just kinda like hand it off and they basically would come back and it would be like, okay, here's the final video. Do you have any revisions? And we would, you know, tweak them here and there. And it would just, it just never was really

what it is when what we do today and how we like, we really encourage our clients. It's like bring us in as close as you can to the beginning of that process, so that we can kind of sit with you and talk about the different things that we can do. It's not just this one video that's gonna go out into the world,

but it's like, what does the pre-marketing look like? What do your cut downs look like? What does the retargeting ad look like? You know, what is the video that's going to be on your website? Like how, how are you using video outside of this campaign? And what does that look like? Because when you hear about a product or a service or a company, you know, because of social media and the internet, just how easy it is to look at different companies, it's like, we want to go look and learn about companies. And if we have to read everything or if we have to really dig, just our attention span is that of an ad and we go on. So if we're not putting video in the format that works

for the end user, whether that's on Instagram and it being real or, you know, a native format on the website or, you know or being on YouTube or TikTok, or every other place that video can live. It's like, if you're not intentional with putting video on all of those platforms and answering the questions and educating people on your product or your services and really humanizing your brand

and helping them understand who you are and why they should know and trust you. People are just gonna move on to the next thing. Like that's just the way it is. It's funny because how you mentioned how like in the whole process of when you're creating all these campaigns and there are a lot of different moving parts, it makes sense that a lot of marketers are going to probably leave video sometimes to be like more of an afterthought because think about it like when you're running your own business, like you're gonna be focusing on all the elements that you know

and you have control over and try to put a little bit more emphasis on that rather than put all your eggs into a basket of someone else, right? It's like if you're a video production company where your internal people don't know any, don't know how to do any animation at all, right? And then you have to create and

pitch an entire animation video project using freelancers, right? So that one you're a little bit more out of the control in terms of the driver's seat in terms of that aspect, but you're helping kind of like guide the project for the client. It can be a little bit nerve wracking sometimes. So I guess that kind of makes sense in that regard. One thing I was actually curious about because you guys have been fairly new for so long

and you've worked with so many different legacy brands, like you mentioned, how did you guys come about to start working with them? Because usually when it comes to really massive legacy companies, they tend to usually go straight to advertising or marketing companies. Is that kind of how you ended up working with them or was it a little bit? Okay. No, man. So when COVID hit, we basically just, we turned kind of inward, you know, because just like everybody else it's like, okay

Well, are we gonna keep doing production because basically we can't go out into the world and do video anymore So what are we gonna do? So we actually we just doubled down we built a studio we had had enough Financials to basically get some support from the SBA. So we did get some loan money that kind of helped us kind of make it through that first year of COVID. And basically what we just decided was like, okay, well, we're just going to do product videos in our studio, and we're just going to switch the entire focus of our business. And then towards the end of 2021 when things were kind of getting a little bit better and

we were at least able to kind of like go out and do certain things within certain restrictions. Basically the guys and I decided it was like, okay, we don't have enough credibility. We don't really have a ton of money for marketing. What can we do? What do we have within our control? And that was relationship building. That was leaning into our network. Luckily, both me and my business partners had been in the marketing world or the creative

industry long enough that we had connections that we could basically reach out to. So we just really started doubling down. We got together one day and literally put every email list together that we had. I mean, I think we maybe pulled together like 350 emails from everything from, you know, businesses to colleagues to random people that we weren't even 100% sure if it actually was them anymore and they were looking at the emails. We basically just started sending out emails.

Then we would follow up with text message and phone calls. Then it was like walking into these places and we just really started doubling down on like we don't have any other option and we want to do video and we want to keep going and we just we have to figure it out. So luckily one of the first ones that happened was the Harlem Globetrotters and it weirdly this is just this is this is how it is. It's who you know like the longer you're around, typically when you're in your 20s and 30s, you know people that really haven't become successful yet, but as you start aging, those people go

into new careers and other things. And it's like, you stay in contact with those people. And then sometimes it works out that they end up working at really, really cool companies. And my business partners actually went to high school with the marketing director of at that point, um, from the Harlem globe charters. And they basically were really leaning into their YouTube channel because,

because of COVID, um, and they couldn't do like live shows anymore. So basically they were like, we've got to figure out our YouTube channel because we lost all revenue and we've got to figure it out now. So basically, he reached out to us and that was kind of it. It was like, guys, can you do this? And we were like, absolutely, we can do this. And we, you know, honestly, there was a little bit of BS in it, but we figured it out. And we went down for Guinness World Record Day.

They basically wanted to shoot a video that where they were going to do 22 world records in two days in honor of one of the you know members of the team and they got 18 world records in two days and I had a team of like Five guys shooting cameras and it was just a super cool experience And these guys are super down-to-earth and they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff like one of them and with this finger tips. I think the video's got like four million views right now or something like that, but it's on YouTube. It's pretty crazy. But so, I mean, that's what it was.

I saw that, yeah. Yeah, I saw the video on your website. It looked like fun. It was, it was super fun. So basically it was leaning into those relationships. So, fast forward a little bit. We basically, we've been using that tactic forever. It's like, you know, we basically do data mining, we go find, you know, companies and

their email addresses and we just start reaching out. It's like there's no shame in it. It's like, do they're either going to say yes or they're going to say no. And you know, with IC, it was just right time, you know, right place, right time. We sent out an email and they basically, you know, kind place, right time, we sent out an email. And they basically, you know, kind of checked us out a little bit and they were looking to do some fun content and we're local. And it just basically the first video they were going to hire us for, it never even worked out. But because we went to their location and really like, just tried

to build a personal relationship with them. And that's something that we did with all of our clients. It's like, you know, when we work with somebody, we want to build a partnership with them and we never want to it. We don't want it to be just a transactional thing. Like we really care about what we do. And so because of that relationship and then saying like, hey, guys, sorry, this is just not going to work out this first time. Like two months later, they called us and they said, hey,

we actually have another opportunity. We've talked with some other people and we really loved what you guys were about, would you want to potentially kind of figure this out? And they pitched us an idea and it was a little outside of the scope of what we did but we just said yes. You know they wanted us to do a little bit of like live performance and video So it was like we had the capabilities to figure it out and make it happen But we just we knew it was such an awesome opportunity that we just said yes, and we said we'll figure it out So we did and it ended up working out to where they really just wanted to do video in the end anyways And we did two different videos for them for their conference

We did one for their parent brand, J&J Snack Foods, and then Icy. And then because of those two videos, they've now pulled us into one of their other brands, Dippin' Dots. And we just did a massive campaign for them that'll be coming out here pretty soon. And they have probably like seven or eight other legacy brands, and we're just trying to continue to work our way inside of it. And that's just, that's just, we just try to do things a little differently. And that, that, that, that people approach caring about them, that human capital, just those, those connections with people, they make so much of a difference. And I think it's just

something that we, especially since COVID, we just yearn for more of it. That connection, that human interaction, especially when it's authentic, it really means something to people. And I think people can see it. They can definitely feel it when you're in person. So what do you do when you show up? What do you do when you show up to their office? Because they're not expecting you, right?

You're just showing up out of the blue, right? What do you just say? Yes, I'm up. Well, and it's really, so one of the things that I learned a long time ago when I was doing, so the first marketing agency that I worked at was with a dental marketing firm. And it was doing dental marketing. It was so riveting. But I learned during that time period that if I was going to talk to the doctor, I had

to win over the receptionist. They had the keys to the kingdom. If I could build a relationship with the receptionist, then I could get to the doctor. So I would just make rounds. I would take them cookies. I would take them flowers. I would remember their name. I would ask them questions about their family. And I was very genuine. It wasn't just like a very sleazy sales tactic. Like I started actually like really caring about

these people and like about their lives and got generally interested. And I would just learn things. So I've taken that skill set and I applied that everywhere, you know, and there's always someone that holds the keys to the kingdom of getting to the person that you're looking for. So, really it's just getting into those kind of conversations like who's the marketing manager or who's the creative director or like who's in control

of the marketing spin or the person riding underneath them and really just trying to connect with that person whether that be on LinkedIn, through an email, on some other social media channel, wherever they're active and you can generally find them. There's tons of tools that you can use to help in that, but I mean, if you're just generally smart, you can find people, especially marketing people. They put their information out there because that's just part of what we do. We are always building connections and collaborating.

So they're generally, at least our work email is out there. And it's just reach out to them. Don't be afraid. Just reach out to them, have a little conversation. Just try to create a little bit of authenticity in that first email interaction or just the first DM that you send them. And it's just just don't make it about the sale.

It doesn't have to start out with the sale. It's more about like, hey, I really like your company. I like what you guys are doing. I think you guys are doing some really, really cool stuff or I love your product or your service or whatever it is. And it's like, hey, I think we'd be a really good fit. Would love to just get 10, 15, 20 minutes with you, kind of chat about what your marketing goals are

and just see if we could help you in any way. If not, no harm, no foul. Wish you guys the best and know that we'll continue to ruse you on from the sidelines. And it's really just, it's just repetition of that. It's funny cause- Sorry, can I just ask a question about the data mining, Karel? repetition of that. It's funny cause uh, Sorry.

Can I just ask a question about the data mining, Karel? Cause you mentioned you were, you do data mining and whatnot. So are you sending out like a ton of emails each day or like, is it very like targeted stuff? Like you might see a company like, yeah, like I really want to get that company as a client. And then you just kind of focus all in on that.

So right now, it's the latter, it's the very targeted, you know, approach kind of like not a ton of emails going out. I'm getting I'm in a place right now where I just hired on an agency. And this was really hard for me because I am a graphic designer and because I can build websites and I can do those things. But I've just learned that my time is really valuable and not that I'm important or anything like that, but it's how I'm using my time and it's really important for me to be doing the most valuable things to benefit the company. And unfortunately, because I am such a multifaceted and skilled person, I love being in the weeds

of things and I love doing all the different parts. But with that, I waste a lot of time being in the weeds and I need to be focusing on building the business. So with that said, I basically hired an agency that's helping me redesign my website Um and really kind of helping me with a lot of the the seo technical type stuff Um, and also helping me kind of rewrite it because I am not a copywriter at all. I Load it's not bad. You look you do a good job though

Yeah, thanks. Um, you know for for not being a copywriter, not being a full-time dev person, I put it up there and it is what it is. And if I look at my competition and just all the different production companies, we're up there in the top five and I'm totally fine with that. But, right now what I know is that my website isn't converting. The conversion rate optimization on my website isn't hitting the way that it needs to. I can track and I can see all the different things. Based on the analytics, it's just not... People are not able to really learn who we are, know

it specifically what we do, and find exactly what they're looking for. I hired this company to help me come in and redo all those things, and also to redo my brand. I'm going to get a facelift on my brand and that's something that was really hard for me because it's also been hard for me to really design my own brand because I'm such a perfectionist and basically just decided on what I did because it was basic and it was just good enough and I just went on. But you know, we've just passed five years, we made it through COVID. You know, we had, you know, almost a half a million dollars in revenue last year. You know, I hired on business coach to really, you know, help me like, really look at the company and look at all the foundational cracks and things that I need to sure up. So all of that to say,

right now, it is the very targeted specific outreaches and me and my executive producer you know are the ones that are kind of reaching out making those connections but I'm like I think six weeks away from the website kind of being done and the brand being done and I've also got a fractional CMO that's helping me with some sales process and marketing stuff and so it's like once this stuff is done, fractional. Yeah. So it's basically like he's like a part-time CMO. And basically like he's my main marketing guy

and he has a couple other clients that he works with. I see. So I got like 20 hours a week from him. So it's basically like a part-time employee, but he is an executive level employee. It cost me way too much to have him full time. So basically, as soon as this website is done, as soon as our new marketing collateral is done, we will be doing a lot more ongoing outreach.

We're building lists right now. You know, we're prospecting different clients, you know, based on the type of work that we've done and the things that we're trying to grow into. You know, we're really narrowing down the style of content we do. Like you guys know, like somebody calls you, it's like, hey, can you do this video? It's like, sure, we'll do it. It may not be what you want to do, but it's like out of necessity and just wanting to continue to do it. You know, like sometimes you'll do it. It may not be what you want to do, but it's like out of necessity and just wanting to continue to do it. Sometimes you just do it. Yeah. It's like you do the

wedding videos, you do the talking head videos, you do the recap videos, you do whatever. But over the last five years, we've found a lot of things that we really love doing and we've kind of narrowed it down to commercials, brand content, social media content, and then corporate videos. Just because corporate videos is always gonna be one of those things that pays well, there's a plethora of stuff that you can do. But really the things that we wanna really do

are the commercials and the branded content. And then that social media aspect is that part of it that we've never done to create that reoccurring revenue. But that's what keeps these legacy brands coming back for more than just those one off projects. So, you know, I don't know if you guys have experienced this, but it's like, you know, we've got a ton of clients that come to us, you know, one, two, three times a year, and

we do this, you know, 10, 20, $30,000 video, and then we don't see them for however long. Now we do a lot of like continual outreach with them and we, you know, make sure that we say top of mind, we go visit them. Like we, we just do our part to make sure like they know that we're here and that we can support them and that we want to be in those marketing conversations. We really want to be in the budgeting conversations with them thinking about next year and how they're going to allocate money for it. But it's like, what's going to keep us getting money from them all the time?

And not necessarily that it's getting money from them all the time, but it's like, how can we provide more value to those clients? Because social media is a never ending thing. If you're not doing it as a business owner, you are missing out on a lot of opportunity. It's like that social media aspect, one, gives us an opportunity to have reoccurring revenue, and it also gives us an opportunity to be able to continuously get revenue from these clients that only come one, two, three times a year. It's really just trying to lean more into it. Trying to get into that more holistic marketing,

putting those things out there, but also then trying to offer the clients that we already have more expanded services. And this is not something that I'm putting on my website right now just because we don't have the capacity to do it. But I started this company with my business partner doing ad distribution. And I don't know if it's that I will have internal ad people or I will work with contractors,

but it's I think that ad distribution or just, you know, distribution of video everywhere, whether that's on YouTube, social media, like organic social media or ad buying or even on OTT or whatever. Like I feel like businesses do a poor job doing that because they don't know how to do it. And I really feel like that's something that gives you as a video production company more opportunity to control the outcome of your video, which keeps your client coming back.

Because if your video is providing ROI and it is really getting them to the marketing objectives that they want because you're putting it in the right place to the right audience at the right time. It just keeps them on your roster much longer. So it's like eventually that's what I'm going to be working back into. Is ad buying more so for stuff that goes on like TV or like billboards or is it also for social media? Social media. Yeah, like Instagram ads. You can even do ad buying just on your organic social media.

Because here's the thing, there's so many people online that are trying to get people's attention. And if everybody's doing messages, if you're not paying for it, you're only going to get so much reach. It is just inevitable that you could post three times a day and different people are going to see that message. The same person, the likelihood of them seeing the same message is so slim to none that you could almost post the same piece of content three times one of them a day and they are the majority of your audience is only going to see it one time. So if you think about it, you know.

It was just a term for me. Cause I thought it was like, you heard, you hear people refer to it in different ways, like video marketing or just paid marketing. And then no ad buying was also referring to the same thing. Yeah. It's all, it's a generalized term, generalized term. Now. Yeah.

I think, you know, if it's more pointed into what it really is, it's just video marketing. And then you can really kind of encapsulate everything underneath that. Video marketing isn't also the paid side of it, it's also the organic side of it. And knowing how to have proper SEO titles and keywords and stuff like that for your YouTube videos, or how to use use hashtags or how to look at different analytical data to decide on when's the best time for you to post and learning who your audience is and what type of content would resonate with them.

And that full circle marketing and being able to close the loop on your content and it going out is so vital into creating the right type of content because it going out is so vital into creating the right type of content because I've worked with so many businesses that think they know who their target audience is and how to kind of put that together. But at the end of the day, like you really don't know until you can have an educated guess. But the thing is like put it out there in the world and see who responds to it because

you're either more often than not, you're going to be sadly mistaken that you're the But the thing is, put it out there in the world and see who responds to it. More often than not, you're going to be sadly mistaken that who you think is your target audience or what we call a love audience is really not who you think it is. Love audience. I like that. That's a good term. I like that. Yeah.

You really have to experiment. You have to experiment with the content. Even Dario and I, when we're just creating content for ourselves with our own SEO channels and blog content, there have been many times where we have to reshoot things because we're also realizing, oh, the way we're doing it is not working. We have to test it out. We have to make it a little bit more succinct.

How we did it here didn't work. This is how we do it. That's one aspect. And know, like an ad buying and ads is also another aspect of it as well, where you never know what you're gonna do unless you actually try it and see how it performs, right? Like a 30 second ad might seem like is the right approach for you

because that's what works for everyone else. But then when you put it out there, it's like, oh, in reality, we're only keeping attention for 15 seconds with our content, so we should probably do 15 seconds. This whole industry is a game of testing, and a lot of people are afraid to just straight up test. A lot of them are just afraid to straight up test out things. Yeah.

Well, and it's not even that's... What I'm starting to also realize is it's not even necessarily that they're afraid. They just don't have the money or the time. That's what I mean. That's the thing. They're afraid because of the lack of resources, right? They're afraid because they only have so many resources, especially time. Like it's not just money.

It's also the time aspect, right? And there's such a constant pressure for a lot of people within companies to be performing for their businesses. It's like, hey, like my boss needs me to nail some targets. Like I really need a home run every run, you know? It's like, but that's not always the case, you know? You can't have a home run every time you go up to bat, right?

Sometimes you just have to keep swinging, feeling it out, see what's working, see what isn't working until something really kind of connects and really resonates. But again, there's a growing demand for everything to be super successful with smaller budgets and faster time. It's like a downward spiral. So it's always a challenge, especially for us.

That's definitely, I mean, it's slow and natural with production right now. I think it's just kind of widespread. I mean, you know, to your point, like, you know, we keep getting opportunities, but the budgets are just so small. And it's like, you know, we have to keep trying to figure out ways of being creative while trying to stay within these confines of the budget. And, you know, and we're a little bit behind our targets this year, so I haven't really been able to kind of lean into

the marketing stuff like I want to for us. So it's like, I get it. Like as a business owner, talking to other business owners, like I'm not even able to really 100% do the things that I'm telling them to do. It's the roofers roof. Like, yes, I know,. I've got tons of videos that have never seen a light a day that are sitting there that I could use as marketing

collateral for myself and they've never been out there. We've spent the last six months really getting together all of these assets and really planning all of our content and all of these things. We're this close to being able to like stay a month ahead in our post schedule and what we're going to be doing through, you know, the content that we're creating, you know, for us and the, you know, the types of things that we're interested in and also just like showcasing the products that we do for people. And it's like, you know, when I get this new website, I'll be able to start blogging, you know, and I put all these things off because the resources are, you know, minimal and it is hard. So it's like, I completely understand. But at the same time, it's like, you're going

to have to put all in, you're going to have to put, put all your chips in at some point. And it's like, you're going to have to risk it or not. It's like, you know, should have get off the pot. So I mean, for me, it's basically like, I'm pushing all in on my content, I'm pushing all in on my marketing stuff, I'm pushing all in on, you know, the money and things that I'm spending to do it

because it's like, you know, this is my year and like I'm just over five years and it's like, I really want to get a profitable and scalable company and focusing on what that looks like while still also being able to provide value to my clients. Like that is what I'm pushing all in on. We've got a client right now that is just kind of like, I can't really speak to it too much. Just kind of like I can't really speak to it too much but basically I Don't know if that one will work Mike sorry Mike had to get my executive producer to get my charger for my computer was

About to die on me So we've got a client that's been sitting on, his client's been sitting on a new product for about six years, and they're ready to launch it. And it's been in development over this last year, and they're just about ready to launch it. And he came in with five or six different scripts of some ideas and things that he'd already put together. And we talked about them. And

we, you know, we love the ideas, but you know, it just, it didn't, something wasn't right. And through just continual conversation with them and talking about the marketing objectives and the goal, it basically came out that it was like, we're not, this content's not speaking to the problem solution. So it's like, you know, we're, we're trying to educate someone on a product that's already been used by everybody every single day. And nobody's ever like pointed to the problem. Although we all have the problem.

It's never been something that everybody that anybody's like, man, we need to fix this, but if somebody did fix it something that anybody's like, man, we need to fix this. But if somebody did fix it, we would go like, huh, I never thought about that. And oh, there is a solution. Let me try this. So we basically decided it was like, okay, we could put out these videos, but they're not going to, they're not going to do what you need them to do to get to the widespread audience to really find out if this product has like a viability

of like actually being a company that you should dump a lot of money into to get it out to the masses. So what we did was he basically went back to the drawing board with him and came up with some different scripts that really focused on the problem solution. And what they're actually what we're going to do we took this out of the the Harman Brothers methodology and I don't know you guys know who the Harman Brothers are no no man you got so go check them out you have you spell how do you spell their name H a R M O N M O N brothers yeah so squatty potty. OK, yeah, those guys are those guys are awesome.

And they have that they have the testing methodology mindset and they do the distribution for the clients and they do like they do. Check out their website. So we actually did some mentorship stuff with them back in 2021 and did some like one on one, some one on mentorship stuff with them back in 2021 and did some one-on-one coaching with them. We just learned a little bit of how they do some stuff on the back end because what everybody sees from them is a viral video, but what they don't see is that they didn't produce a viral video.

They tested into virality. They basically tested all of these little micro versions, they tested headlines, they tested thumbnails, they tested different hooks, and they basically found out what people resonated with the most and then took those modular pieces of content that they, you know, had and put them together in such a way that was the most important thing to the least important thing to where people would actually want to watch the whole video. And that's how they would get these like massively viral videos that would get millions of views.

So that's we're taking that approach with this client and basically these five, six problem solution hook type videos, we're putting them out there in the world. We're testing them. You know, are we gonna drop a couple of them? Do we need to come up with a couple more? Or yes, these all resonated, but they didn't resonate in the order that we thought mattered most. And then taking those videos that are modular

and putting them together into one video, and then putting that out into the world. So testing into a video that has more of a chance of getting into the right people's hands. So it's just a little bit of a longer process, but it really helps you have more clarity on the marketing goal and making sure that you're able to obtain that through the resources and the things that you build. And it just takes more time, but it actually saves money in the long run.

So, yeah. Nice. You have to really take what, when a customer or client is coming to you with like what they wanna do a lot of the time, it's also your responsibility to let them know sometimes what might be a better approach than simply doing what they want, right? It's also your responsibility to let them know sometimes what might be a better approach than

than simply doing what they want, right? I mean there are countless times where we where we have like a client come to us it's like we want to do this kind of video that's like three to four minutes long that explains the x y c of the business which a lot of the time it's like we know what these videos are everybody knows these kinds of videos but it's like for what they're trying to do it's like what do you these videos are. Everybody knows these kinds of videos, but it's like for what they're trying to do, it's like, what do you want to do with this video? Are you trying to get customers? It's like, yeah, I'm like,

this might not be the right approach in terms of how you're going about it. Maybe you need to focus on doing some kind of social campaign or maybe you need to do this first. But obviously there are certain businesses that need certain videos as like a starting point, you know, like your first about video, explainer video, your products and services, your process or whatever it might be.

But it's up to you to kind of help give suggestions. And many times we would like give maybe give suggestions and sometimes the clients would be like, yes, let's do that instead. Or sometimes they're like, no, no, we might do that later. But for now we need to do this. And it always varies, right? Well, and with that in mind, I just, I think morally, I've had to walk away from some clients and disrespectfully say, well, I'm not gonna do that.

Because I know that when I do this, it's not gonna produce the result that you're looking for. And when that happens, you're gonna going to produce the result that you're looking for. And when that happens, you're going to blame me and the video. And I know that's not what it is, because you didn't have these other things there first. So if you don't want to do it, I completely understand actually have some other people that I can refer you to. And you know, if and when this doesn't actually work out for you, and I hope it does, but if it doesn't, it's my hope that you would come back and give me an opportunity. And through that authenticity, you win some, you lose some, but I think just morally I

feel better about turning somebody away and saying no to a potential deal because it doesn't make sense for the client. Just because it makes sense for me, monetarily doesn't mean that I need to do it because it's not going to benefit them. So I completely agree and understand with that thought process. Yeah. Like knowing when to say no to a client or knowing when to walk away is always a challenge because obviously, yeah, like sometimes it could be, they could be coming to you at a month where it's like, oof, you do kind of need the money, you know, at the same time.

So you want to see if you can make it work. You know, sometimes, like I remember this, like one lead came through like about a month or two ago where they basically wanted to do a shoot that was like three hours outside of the city. They wanted to shoot a lot of different content for video and photo, but they didn't have like a massive budget for it as well. But there was like, I don't remember the specifics, but it was just kind of like, it was in a way where it could be doable, right? And you're trying to think like, all right,

you know, it's a little quiet over the last like week or so, maybe we should see if we can work on this. But it's like, you know that if you try to do it, you're not gonna be able to produce great work, and then the client is gonna get that work, and then they're gonna be like, oh, well it was your fault because you didn't create the good work. It's like, you know what, I don't want that headache.

You know, if there's ever a situation where a client is straining us, or a lead might strain us to the point where we won't produce good work. That's when I get very hesitant on taking it on. And you have to know when to make those calls. You know, like don't kid yourself, don't kill yourself. Don't go like, don't do three days where you, a three day shoot, three days in a row of shoots

where you're only gonna sleep like maybe three hours in between each day, don't try to make those things happen. You have to adjust accordingly. Yeah, no, I agree. You know, go ahead. No, continue, I was just gonna mention something else. No, I was just gonna say,

I think that it's a superpower to learn how to say no. And I think for newer production companies or even just freelance videographers, it's really hard to say no if it doesn't really align. But being able to say no allows for you to be able to say yes for the thing that does align. And I think there's been some times where I had to learn that the hard way

because I would be doing something that took me a lot of time and something came up in between that that actually was better, but because I was so busy, I couldn't do it. So I think it's a superpower to learn how to say no. Yeah, completely agree. Superpower to say no at certain price points.

Yeah. That's how I see it. Because there's always a yes. I even told some clients like, yes, but you know, cost money. Yeah. A lot of the time it's like, yeah, like we can make it work, but we need more people. That's sometimes a lot of it. You know, it's a matter of manpower.

That's usually like the biggest reason why a lot of companies might say, no, it's like, there's no capacity to take something on with that kind of constraint. And the reason there's not enough people is because there's not enough budget, you know? So again, every situation is different. You have to feel it out. You have to use your best judgment in that situation

based on what you're doing and what the client is looking for and see if you can make it work. Absolutely. I know we're like a little bit over the one hour mark now on the episode, but one thing I did want to just quickly mention again was that you're one of the very few people that we've talked to that seems like the cold outreach approach has really worked, you know, and especially in our industry, it's always a big challenge. Most people find their work like 80, 90% of the time

through word of mouth. And it sounds like it really works for you. And kind of hearing how you talked about how genuine you were like going and talking to different people and like actually getting to know them. It's like, that's the secret right there. You gotta be a charmer. You're a charmer, Sean.

You know, that's what it is. Do cold outreach well, you have to be charming. Well, I don't want to make it seem like that is the whole shebang because let's be honest, the referrals do work. And that is, that's still probably 60, 70% of what we do. And that's kind of like how it comes back, but it's like those personal relationships and how we build those You know that's either through our own network or cold outreach Like at a certain point after so many years like I don't have any more I don't have any more people that I can reach out to like I've already exhausted those resources

So we're now in a position and this is where you know every business owner needs to get to this It's like you have to learn what it looks like to start reaching out. You have to learn how to present yourself. Perception is reality. So it's like, how are you going to put yourself out into the world and how can you attract new business? For us, that authenticity and us being able to connect with people is something that we hold true to.

And we really care about being a video partner for those internal people that don't have you know, video teams. And that's something that it's like we understand marketing. So let us come help you do video and like talk with you on how those two things align. And you win by doing that. So it's just really leaning into that. But there still is a good amount of referrals and making sure that we under promise

and over deliver for our clients and then saying like, hey, you guys got to use them. But there definitely is the need and necessity for that cold outreach. And we just all need to get better about it. There's such a truth to what you're saying. And it's kind of like a scary truth that a lot of business owners have to come face to face with and I feel like Dario and I are

probably going to be facing that soon as well is that there's going to come a point like you said where you're just going to have to go out there and just talk to people and get in touch with new people and find new ways of generating business. You can't rely always on just referrals, like in terms of like, that's like your only way. I know a lot of production companies that have only worked like that, a lot of them do well, but also a lot of them can fail as a result,

because yeah, once you've gone through your entire network and your network also is not always gonna be coming to you. That's the other thing that a lot of people might realize. It's just because you have a lot of people that you know, does not mean that they're always gonna come to you. Like there have been many times where people that I've been close to, that we've done videos for,

had to go and work with other production companies because maybe their goals have changed, budgets have changed, personnel have changed, management has changed. There's so many things that change that are beyond your control and also your contacts control. It's like you're going to have to put new fishing rods in different lakes. That's essentially it.

Well, and here's the thing. Referrals are not predictable, nor scalable. So at some point you have to realize, it's like, okay, if I'm ever going to truly hit the revenue goals that I want, I have to be comfortable with networking. I have to be comfortable with outreach. I have to figure out how to have those conversations. And I'll tell you, like some of my biggest paying clients have come through chasing some really weird rabbit trails.

One instance, I literally drove out to a facility out in the middle of nowhere to actually just tour this facility for a nonprofit at the point, but it was a nonprofit within the company. And that's actually become through just basic networking and communication and relationship building, that has become one of our biggest revenue generators and one of our top paying clients because they like, know, and trust us. And it was really through just chasing a random lead, just being interested in their business and just having conversations with them over time. Because it is, the referral part of it

does kind of lead into it. And it's like, somebody said, hey, you should check this person out. I just kind of chased it. But at the same time, it was still part of that cold outreach. And it was still part of that going and building relationship. And it's referrals, and this is the thing that we need to learn as production companies. cold outreach and it was still part of that like going and building a relationship and it's you know referrals and this is the thing that we need to learn as production companies

like referrals are not profitable nor scalable and if you they're not I said that wrong they're not scalable or predictable that's what I meant. There's not scalable nor predictable and it's's like, at some point, things are going to dry up. And if you don't have a way of generating leads or new business, you're not going to be around. There's something to that. Cause like, if it wasn't for us focusing on SEO for a good portion of like during the pandemic, you know, and just kind of like rebuilding the business in that sense, we would have, not that the referrals dried up, but it's like in that sense where like,

you can't run a business on referrals, like you said. There's like, there's only certain size businesses that can only operate on referrals only, unless you're that big. But even the big companies have to do a lot of selling and a lot of pitching and a lot of outreach because they're also competing with other people, like other people in those networks, they have to get quotes from three different big agencies, for example. So you have to really be putting yourself out there.

That's why you see so many people at networking events and just, you never know where it can pan out. Like there was like this one marketing organization I was a part of for like three years. And like I did a little bit of work. We did a little bit of work with them here and there. You know, just, I was just there in the community getting a sense to know a lot of people there to the point where finally a big project came through

where it's like, oh, we know Kirl, we know Laps. So let's hire them and they can produce it. And it was a great experience, you know, and like everyone was behind it because it's like, it's a no brainer at that point. You've embedded yourself within a lot of people in that community. Like what we need to remember as business owners,

people are buying into us, not necessarily our business. Right? So doing outreach in person, the benefit there is that people get to know who you are first before they get to know what you do, right? And when you do outreach, that's just purely email. And this is why those spam emails never work. Like, when people are reaching out to us with their services, it's that they're saying,

this is what I could do for you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, I don't know who you are. So I'm just going to ignore that email right away. Right. It's like without a second's thought. That probably just only works at scale. Like you got to send a indie rap. He sends out like 5,000 a day. It only works in large volumes. But I like Sean's approach.

It's more like Taylor. Like he picked it out, picks out a company, reaches out, and then even goes in person. That's's the approach I would think about it. Yeah, think about this too. The day and age of these massive marketing agencies and huge production companies, like they're just they're dying out because video is such a, it's such a, it's a commodity anymore. Like everybody can do video now because of phones and DSLR cameras. Like it's just something that it's like, you know, you can get an intern to do video for you. So it's

just people don't really buy into these mega agencies anymore. So it's like, there's, we're in a really cool age right now. It's also kind of made it to where there's a ton more competition. But it's like if you really focus on something you said, it's like people buy into you. So it's like if you're honing your craft, if you care about people and the product that you're you know, putting out there and you under promise and over deliver and here's a big if you do what you say say and you stay consistently, you know, on those tactics and staying in front of people and putting those things out, if you were just more interested in other people and their success and not just selling a product to

them, you will get more opportunities. But if you're doing, like you said, just doing cold outreach and putting messages out there that is strictly about the sale and what you can do for people, they don't care. People don't care. They want to know how you're going to help them, especially if you're interrupting their day to day. So it's like, how are you going to provide value for them? How are you interested in them and their lives or their product or business and just continuously just humanize yourself and put yourself out there? And it's like, allow for those natural sales conversations to come up. Like eventually like they do come but it does take repetition.

It does take you know being able to like be okay with the no. It does take patience and you being okay with like follow up and what that looks like and it just takes time. It's a craft that is not easy to learn and I'm not even the best at it but it's like you just have to keep doing it because at the end of the day, like if we're going to stay doing this, like you're going to have to get good at that. Yeah, 100% agree. Definitely giving us something to think about.

You've definitely given us something to think about a little bit more because like last year was a lot of like us focusing inward. And this year we're trying to kind of figure out how to outreach more. And we're just getting more and more curious about what works for other people. And I think you're basically just telling us at this point, like we just got to do it, just test it out, feel it out and just don't be afraid.

You know, Dario. Yeah. I'll leave you with this one thing. So Two years ago. I won a client through a really interesting tactic. So We at that point we had just relaunched our website And we had really focused on the SEO portion and we built out a marketing sales video We built out a marketing sales video. We built out email marketing campaigns, just a full-fledged holistic marketing approach. We also had a LinkedIn cadence.

And I think there was one other aspect. Oh, we got addresses. So we basically started running Facebook ads, we started running email marketing campaigns, and then also running LinkedIn campaigns to a list of about 500 people. So we highly targeted these 500 companies through these different tactics and basically hitting them with messages, retargeting them with messages. And then the last thing that we did is we took a Hail Mary chance.

And I can send you this if you wanna see what it looks like. But we basically, I basically built a what looked like a ransom letter that was branded in our colors that said, watch this video. And then at the bottom of it, it had a picture of me and it had a little line that, like a little arrow that went to this thumb drive that I taped to it.

And I said something about like, you know, it's okay, seriously, watch this video, you'll like it. And basically like we wrapped this up in a nice little bubble mailer and we sent it out to all 500 of these people. Now we got like 30 of them back. A couple people we were able to connect with and we were like, hey, that was clever. But what it did for, and actually just now one of our main clients came from this campaign.

So they saw our Facebook ads, they saw our LinkedIn messages, they got our emails and they were like, you know, those were great. And we touched them, you know, multiple times through those, you know, different approaches. The moment they actually got that mailer and they took it out and they took a chance and took the thumb drive and they watched the video and they watched the video and they watched the video that we put together. They were like, these guys get it. There's something special about them.

And they were like, we want to have a conversation with them. And because we did that, just a simple little mailer with this stupid little ransom note that was kind of a joke, but it was like, let's just see if it works. We spent like 500 bucks on this campaign and we ended up getting a client that has produced far, far more than that. So I'll send it to you and let you guys figure it out. Yeah, I wanna see this.

Man, it's like, try things. Like, why not? Like, what's the worst thing that happens? Yeah, just experiment. Like, it doesn't work? Yeah, I agree. We're in an industry where we're always, where people in our industry are afraid of rejection.

So it's just like, yeah, we just have to take a chance, go for it. And then yeah. I was just unsure of our approach. Cause I was like, how do we go about this in a way where it makes sense? Cause you know, last couple of episodes that we shot, everyone's doing a lot of outreach and it seems like it's very cold and like it's just mass

Emails and all that stuff and it works for them, but it's like works But I was like, I don't see it like I don't know. I just didn't vibe with it personally for our stuff, right? But yeah what you brought up today? I'm like, okay I can see us doing that and I can see it working. So I'd be creative. I think that's part of it. And be in person. Yeah, if you in person part of it, I like if you can't be in person, do this. Go connect with them on LinkedIn.

If you're if you're a video person and you're not on LinkedIn and you're not, you know, cultivating relationships there, you're really missing an opportunity. But like go on LinkedIn and find the companies that you want to work with or the people you want to work with and just start commenting on their posts and getting into conversations with them and you can find out other things that they're liking and you can find their network and you can start building relationships with them and build a genuine connection so that when you do send that marketing email, it's a little less salesy. You've already kind of warmed them up to it.

It's like build relationships with people. They know of you already. The key is for people to know of you a little bit more as well. I think that always does help sometimes, but I think it's just a matter of we just have to start. No, no. You've given us, like I know how to grow about it now. Like you've given us enough of an idea of how to do it.

Exactly. It's just before we were just, I was like, eh, just cold to this, sending out emails. For the sake of it. It didn't vibe with me, but like I like how, like I've already said, like you do the email, then you also try to go meet them in person and all that. I like that. Yeah. Go, go in the extra step and trying to get in touch with them in person.

I really like, I think the difference is that you can actually, I was going to say, yeah, go ahead. I think it's a lay on my side. It's like that movie. Twenty twenty two Jump Street. Remember the twins. See the problem is Sean's video is like delayed so I can't tell when he's done. I know. I'm not done talking.

So Sean you go first. Yeah. Yes. I was just going to say if if you do go in person, this sounds super cheesy. But like, take some cookies, you know, take. I made a mental note of that when you brought it up with the secretaries. I'm like, that's genius. I mean, dude, I mean, we like, and I need to get back to this. I haven't done it in a while. But like, one of my interns made some noodle cookies. And I'm like like and I need to get back to this I haven't done it in a while But like one of my interns made some noodle cookies and I'm like, I just need to start taking those noodle cookies out just like They're just in the shape of a noodle like a macaroni noodle. Oh, okay

It's like getting your logo printed on a cookie. Like yeah, that's one of those that events all the time I that's I'm just gonna take it. How do we do that? How do we do that with LabSquirrel? How do we laser print our logo on cookies? There's big shops for it, but I think the biggest key takeaway that makes this- You can- Go ahead.

What's happening again? Go ahead. Go ahead. You guys gotta raise a hand and say, can I talk now? But I can't because his video's delayed on my end. So I'm just now seeing him do the clap. I heard it, but only now I'm seeing it. I'm pretty sure that the delay's not gonna show

on the exported video. So just in case you guys don't know what we're talking about. People are gonna be wondering why like Sean and I just keep messing up. Just a video uploading to Riverside and it's causing up the low, but it's pretty funny. The last point I was just gonna say Sean was that the key takeaway from this whole thing

is that you're doing multiple touch points with these people, but in more genuine ways rather than doing like a one-off and then forgetting about it. I think that's why a lot of cold outreach doesn't work. Doesn't work, yeah. And that's why it's clicking for Dario and I a little bit more right now. And we'll click for a lot of other people who are listening to this episode, is that like you're picking out people and just like trying to be,

trying to genuinely reach out to them and talk to them, either through email, socials like LinkedIn, or even like going in person. Then the in-person is like, oh, like, so that's who you are. It's like, oh, it's nice to meet you in person, maybe even or something like that. I don't know. We'll see how it is when we try it. But I think that's the key takeaway is that multiple touch points that are genuine and not salesy. And that's the mistake a lot of people make. Dude, I'm just getting ideas now even like the on top of you know the cookies and whatnot like the mugs that we have that have been sitting in my garage for the past like six years we can start to offload those and you could put you like just throw in merch you know it's like we're just

in the neighborhood just want to check you guys out chat chat for a little bit, leave a little gift, like, you know, drop a gift basket of like mugs, some other stuff that has your company logo. And I just realized, Kirill, we never put our URL on those mugs. We should have done that. But anyways, just for another time. But yeah, like stuff like that. That's like a fantastic. I'm getting ideas already. So like after this podcast, I got one more for you. All right, go ahead go for it

So there's a I don't know if I want to give the secret away So to do it offline There's a website called our B2b Our B2b Okay. Yeah. So this website will tell you 20 to 30% of the website traffic that comes to your website. It'll send you like, I've got it set up to send me slides.

Oh, nice. But it basically- USA visitors only. Yeah. Oh, does it? Oh, I'm sorry guys. Yeah. It says it right there. Like, but. Oh, does it? Oh, I'm sorry guys. Yeah, it says it right there.

Like, but explain it, explain it. So basically every day, it basically sends me a notification about 30% of the time of somebody that goes to my website. It'll send me their LinkedIn information and their email address and the company they work for and the website page that they visited. And I just use, you know, and I've been a little apprehensive to reach out to these

people just because I'm like, I just feel so creeper. I'm like, you know, but I was wondering. I know you just checked out my site. But you know what? I'm at a point right now where I'm like you know what I don't even care I'm just gonna connect with these people start having conversations and we'll see where it goes. You should have said you should have said listen there's no expectation of privacy in today's world. I'm reaching out. There's really not. You know it's one thing I will say. This is in Europe. Before we let you go one funny thing you mentioned mentioned with the whole USB thing, I was just thinking to myself,

I'm glad that it worked with a lot of people, but I'm trying to think of the reason why it might not have worked with some people was, when you get a random USB drive in the mail, once you've watched Mr. Robot, you start to kind of be a little hesitant to throw that onto your computer randomly. I was gonna ask, did anyone call the cops on you? to throw that onto your computer, Randy.

Did anyone call the cops on you? So we, that was something that we were like, okay, like this is a legitimate like risk. Some people are probably not going to put this because of malware and all the different kinds of things that they could be, you know, getting. They don't know who we are, but it was like, that's 500 bucks. Let's give it a shot.

We were thinking that because we had sent them Facebook ads and LinkedIn messages and emails, but we had hit so many of them and we knew that they were opening our messages. We felt like the likelihood of them getting scared and calling the police was probably slim to none. And we felt like that they would probably, because we did do some, we minimize the weirdness of it by putting my name, my phone number, my email, and my picture on it.

So there definitely was a lot of conversation about it, but it was a risk we were willing to take and it paid off. Yeah. You got to try different things. You never know. And like, yeah, like that one, there was obviously no major risk. I'm just, I was just thinking about like why some people might not have like gone forward with it. It's like that exact thought. It's like, I'm not taking a DVD off a guy off the street, you know, popping it into my computer for example so anymore yeah go to Chinatown you get the pirated movies but anyways Sean we'll let you go we appreciate you

jumping on the call with us you definitely have given a Daria and I a lot of food for thought so a lot of mac and cheese for thought a lot of mac and cheese. Yeah With a lot with extra cheese, that's the beauty of it. He gave us some extra cheese. That's for sure Awesome guys. Thanks for the call and look forward to connect to in see off other men Like sure for sure. All right. Oh, hang on. Hold on. Don't don't leave don't leave Don't he's gonna cut the recording but just stay on. Okay For sure, for sure. Alright, hang on, hang on, don't leave, don't leave. I'm just gonna cut the recording but just stay on, okay? favorite podcast app. Creatives Grab Coffee is created by Laps Productions, a video production company based in Toronto, Canada.

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