Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 17 Riveting Moments from Kouri Richins’ Housekeeper in Murder Trial

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

Carmen Lauber cleaned Eric and Kouri Richins' house in 2021 and 2022. But now she's the prosecution's star witness in Kouri's murder trial for the death of her husband, Eric. Carmen Lauber testified that she bought drugs for Kouri before and after Eric's death. Lauber claimed that Kouri paid her for drugs with a check and asked her for "Michael Jackson stuff." Law&Crime's Angenette Levy goes through the testimony and the defense's effort to discredit her in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the SAN app at https://san.com/crimefix for Unbiased, Straight factsHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrime See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Did you know Eric Richens? Yes. How did you know him? I cleaned his home. That's Carmen Lobber, and she told jurors that she bought drugs for Corey Richens at her request in the weeks before Eric Richens died. Did there come a time when she asked you for the Michael Jackson stuff? Yes. Now, Lauber is the state's star witness in the murder case against Corey Richens.

I look at 17 bombshells from Lobber's testimony. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and this is Crime Fix. Staying on top of the news is crucial, but with media bias these days, who knows what to believe. So I want to introduce you to our sponsor, Straight Arrow News. Straight Arrow News is a personalized news platform that gives readers fact-based journalism to inform and build trust. Their media mist tools shows readers' headlines not seen on mainstream outlets, providing useful commentary that cuts through sensational spin. Their site and app also points out biases with a media landscape to group sources by political

leaning for full transparency. So if you're ready for a better way to get the news, go to san.com slash crime fix or just click the link in my description, Straight Arrow News, skip the drama, get the facts, welcome back to trustworthy journalism. Corey Richens is on trial for the murder of her husband. husband Eric. And the state star witness against Corey is her former housekeeper Carmen Lobber, who told the jury she bought drugs for Corey not once, but three times before Eric died in March of 2022. Corey's attorneys say she's innocent and that she did not murder Eric by poisoning his

Moscow mule with fentanyl. Corey called 911 in the early morning hours of March 4th, 22 and told EMTs that she and Eric had had a drink and he had taken a THC gummy before they went to bed. It's like to go about a gummy before he goes to bed. It didn't seem like you did, though. It's like their gummy as in like a THC gummy. Now there's a problem with that, though. The medical examiner testified that Eric Richens didn't have THC in his system when the

toxicology results came back. She said the results only showed he had fentanyl and alcohol in his system. So that leaves one question. Where do prosecutors claim Corey Richens got the fentanyl to poison Eric in her hopes of cashing in and collecting his millions? That's where Carmen Lobber comes in. She's Corey and Eric's former housekeeper. And she wasn't just a housekeeper. She's a woman with a long history with drugs.

What do you do for a living? I'm a direct support intake. I work with people with disability and mental challenges and stuff. Do you have a history of drug use? Yes. When did that history begin? Sixth grade, I was smoking pot, and then it just varied up through junior high and high school. How did it vary up?

Through cocaine, through pot, through mushrooms, LSD, acid, just drinking stuff through junior high and high school. Did it continue into adulthood? Yes. For how long? For quite a most of my adulthood. Have you ever sold drugs? Yes. Do you have a criminal history involving drugs?

Yes. Does it involve drug possession? Yes. Does it involve drug distribution? Yes. Do you have felony convictions for drug distribution? Yes. Are you currently on a type of probation for drug distribution?

Yes. And are you on a kind of probation for drug distribution? a probation for a felony drug distribution? Yes. Is that probation in Wasatch County's drug court? Yes. What is drug court? Drug court is where you go in, they give you the tools to rehabilitate yourself.

They give you groups, personal therapy, one-on-one treatment. They give you random UAs. They have you complete an MRT book. just tools to rehabilitate yourself. When you say UA's, is that your analysis testing? Yes. To see if you're hot for drugs? Yes.

They would call in daily, and you would either have a number or a color. And if your color or number was called, you had to get over to a five-minute clinic and do UA. And is the idea behind drug court that it's a rehabilitative program under court supervision? Yes. Are you sober now? Yes. How long, ma'am, have you been sober? A little over four years.

Is that the longest time in your life since sixth grade that you'd have been sober? Absolutely. Except for the time I was pregnant, the only time I quit, and then I'd go back to be in high. But yes, four years, a little four years. So Carmen has a long history of abusing drugs, but right now she's clean. Lead prosecutor Brad Bloodworth is getting all of Carmen Lobber's warts out in front of the jury early on and she's getting a major deal in exchange for her testimony. Are you testifying pursuant to several grants of immunity today?

Yes. Is one of those grants of immunity in a letter from Summit County? Yes. One of those grants of immunity in a letter from Fault Lake County. Yes. Is one of those grants of immunity in a letter from the federal government? Yes. And is there also an understanding?

between you and Wasatch County, or at least your attorney in Wasatch County, that there is immunity for the gun and the marijuana in Wasatch County? Yes. And do you have those four grants of immunity because you have committed crimes in connection with this case in all four of those jurisdictions? Yes. What is your understanding of those immunity agreement? proceeding forward with the truth and there will be no charges filed back on me.

Do you understand that they require you in order to avoid criminal exposure? Do they require you to testify today truthfully? Yes. Do they require you to testify today fully? Yes. Regardless of who's asking you the questions. Yes. And that if you don't testify truthfully,

and fully, you could lose all of that immunity. Yes. Did your lawyer assist you in getting that immunity? Yes. Did he advise you of the potential criminal exposure you face if you lose that immunity? Yes. Yes.

Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you interview with, investigators before you got immunity in those cases? Yes.

About how many times? Six times? Six or seven times. And over the course of those six or seven times, before you had immunity, about how many hours total did you speak with investigators? Do you ever take 10, 15 hours? Carmen Lover talked about part of the reason she agreed to, testify aside from the immunity she was given.

When they had first told me that, when they first mentioned that Eric, I already knew Eric had passed away, but when they had mentioned that it was from an overdose, that hit hard only for the fact that if that's what happened, I needed to step up and take accountability of my part in this that happened. and what I was asked for.

At first, it took a minute to process everything. So Carmen Lobber says part of the reason she is testifying is because she played a role in Eric's death. But let's face it, she also has the possibility of major prison time hanging over her head. Now, let's get into the meat of her testimony. Ma'am, did you know Corey Richards? Yes. How did you know her? I worked for her aunt for LTD.

He's personal house cleaning. And as part of working for Corey Richon's house cleaning, aunt's house cleaning business, did you clean Corey Richen's home? Yes. Every other Friday, unless she needed an extra clean or a deep clean. About how long did you know Corey Richens?

I worked for her aunt for nine years. And did you know Corey Riches that whole nine years? Yes. We got to know each other throughout the time, throughout the years. Did you also perform other cleaning services for Corey Richens? Yes, when I wasn't working for Doreen, I reached out to her and asked her if she had any housing or landscaping or anything that she needed help with. Did you ever discuss your drug history with Corey Richies?

Yes. How so? We just talk about how father I was, how I was going in drug for, and when I would graduate, and she would reach out and ask how things were going or if I'd run into each other. I'd tell her, I'd tell her, I was graduating. Did you know Paraguayor? Yes.

How did you know him? I cleaned his home, his house, and he'd come in, and he would joke with us that we were there a little later than what we should have been, and he'd tell us, get out of here, you know, we're working past five o'clock. It's time to go home. I've gone to their house with my grandkids on a barbecue what was one of their sons' birthdays with her aunt.

Did you know that Eric Richens owned a stonemasonry business? Yes. Did you know any of the workers that he employed in that business? No. We knew the prosecutors would claim that Carmen Lobber bought drugs for Corey at her request, but we learned through Lobber's testimony the number of times she claims Corey asked her to buy drugs. Did Corey Richens ever ask her? you to purchase for her illicit drugs? Yes. How many times? Four. Did you

purchase illicit drugs for her? Yes. How many times? Four. When you purchased illicit drugs for Corey Richens the first time, who did you purchase the drugs from? Susan Kohler. When you purchased Corey for Corey Richens drugs the second time, who did you purchase the drugs? drugs from? Robbie. By Robbie, do you mean Robert Crozier? Yes. How about the third time? Robbie. The fourth time. Robbie. Robbie Crozier will be a key witness for the state too. Carmen Lauber told the jury she deleted her text with Corey about buying drugs because they showed her doing something illegal and she was going through drug court and didn't want to get into trouble.

Let's talk about the second time that you purchased drugs for Corey Richens, which is the, am I right, the first time you purchased them from Robert Crozier? Yes. All right, let's talk about that first purchase from Robert Crozier. How did Corey Richens approach you on that purchase? She had reached out to me and text messages said that her investor needed or wanted something stronger. And I kind of told her, well, I couldn't reach out to the people I don't know. You just can't say, hey, this is what I'm looking for. When you're buying drugs off the street, you pretty much purchase what you get.

And at the time, I didn't know anybody. So I reached out to another acquaintance that I knew that was still using, which would be Nicole. Now, this is where the subject of fentanyl, the drug that killed Eric Richens, comes up. Did he ever get back to you after that? Yes. did. When he got back to you, what did he say? He said he had a buddy that had some fentanyl pills.

What then did you do? I had text Corey back and told her that I had a friend that could get them, but they were fentanyl pills. So you told Corey you had a friend a hookup for fentanyl pills? Yes. How did Corey Richens respond? She said, okay. ahead and get him. So did you go ahead and get him? Yes. What was the next step and getting?

The next step was reaching out to Robbie and tell them to go ahead and get him. Lobber said she also deleted her text messages with Robbie Crozier because they showed her doing something illegal as well. Remember, Corey is charged with attempted murder for a Valentine's Day 22 incident in which Eric Richens believed Corey poisoned his sandwich. Photos were shown during Carmen Lobber's testimony that showed her with her friend Nancy driving through Provo Canyon three days before Valentine's Day on February 11th, 2022 to meet Robbie Crozier. Did you see about how many pills were inside that baggie? No, I didn't sit there and count him. It was 15 to 20s what he told me. Did you, you said they were circular? Yes, just round. Did you notice their color?

Kind of light green. What did you do? One, Once he gave you the pills? Left. Left to where? Back up to Provo Canyon, back up to my house in Hebrew. On the way back to your home in Hebrew, did you exchange text messages with Corey Richardson? Yes, I did. What was the content of those messages?

I let her know that I had him. What did she want me to do with them? I really didn't want them with me at my house. Did she tell you what she wanted you to do with those pills? responded back with, take them over to the Midway house, put him in a shed. There was three sheds on that property. I didn't feel comfortable leaving them in the shed out in the open. So I went to the fire pit and kind of dug a little hole and put the gravel back on top of it and then kind of turned a brick to the side to kind of cover it up. A lot of what Brad Bloodworth was showing the jury

was meant to corroborate Carmen Lobber's testimony, the photos of the fire pit, and then these community service letters signed by Corey Richens for Carmen Lobber. What's the genesis of these letters? Why these letters? I was late for a couple of groups, so I got sanction from drug court to do 10 hours of community service. Okay. So groups do you mean group therapy sessions? Yes. And because you were late to court ordered, they're court ordered, aren't they?

Yes. Because you were late to court ordered group therapy sessions in drug court, am I right, the judge sanctioned you to community service? Yes. Then did you approach Corey Richens about getting community service letters? I had asked her if she knew anywhere could get a letter with a head on it, saying that I did some community hours. Okay.

Ms. Lover, did Corey Richens hand you those letters? Yes. Did you perform that community service? Absolutely not. Have you ever stepped foot on a Circle R. No, I have not. Did you submit those community service letters to the drug court in Wasatch County? Yes, I did. How'd that go? Not too well. I ended up in jail for a day and got more community hours. Brad Bloodworth also asked Carmen Lobber about a time that Lobber claimed Corey Richens asked her for, quote,

Michael Jackson's stuff. Michael Jackson died from an overdose of propofal and anesthetic in 2009. Did there come a time when she asked you for the Michael Jackson stuff? Yes. Is that this time? Yes. What did you understand the Michael Jackson stuff to mean? I actually wasn't sure I had to Google it. So you said it was ultimately this third buy from Robert Crozier.

Did Corey Richens give you the money up front for the third buy? Yes, it was at the Midway House still. Was it the same way she... The same little house in Midway, back door. Did you enter the back door at that little house in the way? Yes. Did you get some money? Yes.

Do you remember about how much? About $1,000. Was it cash? Yes. Was it cash the other time also? Yes. Once you got the $1,000 out of the small Midway house, what did you do? I attached Robbie.

What did you set up with Robbie over text? Just saying, hey, do you, does your friends still have any of those left? And then, of course, you know, it doesn't happen right then and there. I could text him and he'd say, I'll get back to you in a couple days, I'll see what I can find out. So then when Robbie text me back, I let Corey know that I could get him, and then head back down, had Nancy Tate me, once again, down Provo Canyon to the Maverickon 100. 26. Just like the time before. Yes. Like before, were you texting with Robert Crozier on the way down the canyon? Yes. And what was the content of those texts? Same texts, how much longer, how far out are you?

Because he always had to find a ride as well. Were you texting on the way down Provo Canyon with Corey Richens? Yes. What was the content of those texts? Same thing. Sorry, it's taken long. I don't know how long he's going to take, but I'll keep you posted. Carmen Lobber went on to describe the pills she said she bought from Robbie Crozier, and what she did after buying them from him. Can you please describe the baggie? Clear little baggie. Just a small little clear baggie.

It's if you were putting an extra button in it. Same as last year? Yes. Do you recall about how many pills? 15 to 20. I never stopped and counted him, but that's what he told me was in the baggie. Were they round again? Yes.

What color were they? A lighter blue. Once you received the pills from Robert Crozier, what did you do? Tips Corian told her I was headed back at Provo Canyon, and I'm sorry, it was getting late, so what did she want me to do with them? Okay. Did you text with Corey Richards on your way back up, Provo Canyon to Heber? Yes.

When you got up to back up to Heber, what did you do? Oh, went to my house in Heber. did you still have the pills with you? Yes. What ultimately did you do with the pills? Well, it was Nancy in the drove me, so I had taken her to my house. Wait, hold on, I'm getting confused. Hold on a stick.

Take a minute. This is a lot. Hold on. Okay, sorry, you can repeat the question. So, sure. The second buy from Robert Crozier. You went back up, provocating into your house in Hever. Nancy Peterson was driving, right?

Yeah. And you had the pills with you when you arrived back at your home in Kiever. And the question is, what did you do with the pills? I had them with me. Did you hold on to him? Yes, I did. For how long? I had given Nancy a couple for taking me because that was her drugger choice at the time. Not very long. What did you do with them? I reached out to Corey and asked her what she wanted me to do with them. because I didn't like having them on me. Why did she respond? She would come pick them up. Did she?

Yes, she did. Where did she pick them up? In my house, in he were, in my driveway. Lobber said Corey Richens later picked up those pills from her at her home. Brad Bloodworth asked Lobber questions about the drug by she made from Robbie Crozier and what happened after Eric died. Before Eric died, how many times did you buy drugs from Robert Cruz? Twice.

Any more than twice before Eric died? No, just the twice. Before Eric died, have you ever been, other than those two times, to the Maverick and Drake? No. You just said Eric died in early March, right? Yes. Do you recall when you learned that Eric died? It was one of the, one of Doran's employees that had told me that Eric had passed away.

And do you recall how soon after Eric's death, Eric's death, she told you that? It was a day or two after? Did you ever speak with Corey Richens about Eric's death? Yes, I did. When? A couple days after. Where were you when you spoke with Corey Richens

the first time about Eric's death? I was with my friend Nick, and we were on our way to do a UA for drug court. Is Nick? Nick Bond Savage. Yes, it is. And the UAE again is a urine house? Yes, it is. So you and Nick were together, were you on a way?

Were you driving to the UA? Yes. When you had that conversation with Corey Richens about Eric's death, were you on speaker phone? Yes. Could Nick hear the conversation? Yes. Did you ask Corey Brichens about Eric's death?

Yes, I did. What did you ask? I said, please tell me these pills were not for him. Did she respond? She did. How did she respond? She said, no, they were not. Eric passed away from a brain aneurysm.

Now, this is now the second time a witness has testified that Corey told them, oh, Eric died from this. You may recall Eric's dad testified that Corey told him that Eric died from a lung ailment. But back to Carmen, she offered more testimony about what Corey said. Did there come a time after that conversation where you asked whether Eric died from those pills, or you asked Corey Richards whether Eric died from those pills. Did there come any time after that conversation when Corey Richens again asked you to purchase drugs from her? Yes.

How did she ask? She asked me if I still had the hookup or work. My friend. Scott, can I get 2-44? If you look down that column-label description, Ms. Lauer, do you recognize that as a text exchange between you and Corey Richens? Yes.

Yes, I do. Is this an accurate text exchange? An accurate depiction of the text exchange? Yes, it is. And did it occur on March the 7th? sorry, March the 6th and into the 7th, 2022? Yes, it is. Carmen then talked about a time after Eric Richens died that she bought drugs for Corey.

I'm talking about the third drug buyer from Mr. Corzia now, after Eric's dead. Oh, no. She gave me a, well, she told me that the investor would leave money under her dormant at her house. The investor would leave money under the dormit of her house for you to buy drugs? Yes, in Camas. Okay. house in Camas. So did you go to her house and pick up that money? Yes, I was with Nick. Nick drove me. Okay, is this the same Nick Bond Savage? Yes. That was in the car when you asked her

whether the pills caused Eric's death. Yes. So Nick drove you from where? Nick picked me up in my house in Heber and then we headed to the backside of Jordan L to the house in Camas. Corey Richon's house in camp. Yes, Corey and Eric's house in Camas. Did you check under the mat at the front door for the money? Yes, I went to the door, looked at the mat, there was nothing there. So I kind of looked at Nick and kind of shrugged my shoulders and ran around to the back door to see if there was anything out of the mat there.

There was nothing there. So I ran back to the front. And I kind of threw my hands in the air to Nick's like, what do I do? And I went over and rang the doorbell. It took Corey a minute to get to the door. She answered it. She told me to come inside. I told her the money wasn't there.

I gave her a hug and asked how she was doing. And then I told her the money wasn't there. And then she asked if she could write me a check. So then she went over in her kitchen counter and grabbed a kind of a book. That was so big and wrote me a check. Did she hand you the check? Yes. Yes, you heard Carmen Lover right.

She said Corey Richens paid her for drugs using a check. A copy of that check was shown to the jury. The check amount, $1,300. Carmen said she deposited the money and kept some of it in cash. Now, Carmen is a key witness for the state, a star witness, really. So of course, the defense attacked her credibility immediately on cross-examination. And attorney Wendy Lewis suggested Lobber may have been prepped to testify by the state just a little too much. What other people from Summit County Sheriff's Office, if any, besides Detective Maynard and Detective...

what Driscoll did you talk to? Well, there are detectives? Yes, were there any others? No. All right. Have you met with the prosecutors in this case, either Mr. Bloodworth or anyone else? Yes, I have. How many times?

There was an initial meeting when we first, this case first came up here with Bloodworth and then a couple times over the last couple weeks. So when you met with them over the last couple of weeks, was that to go over your testimony? Yes. Did they practice your testimony with you in those meetings? They kind of prepared me for what kind of, I don't know what the word I'm thinking of. They kind of prepared me a little bit of it. Lewis also suggested in her questioning of Carmen that police and prosecutors helped her craft a story to tell the jury.

Did they help you put the pieces together so you wouldn't remember what to testify to? Actually, I'm the one that's asked, like, if... when if I needed to know Robbie I put in my phone, obviously it says Corey Doreen's, Robbie, Nicole's friend, just stuff like that. I don't know if I understood your answer to my question. So my question was, did they help put the pieces together for you for your testimony, and what was your answer? I said, I'm the one that asked for pictures and stuff like that.

So you asked them to help put the pieces together for you? I don't know if it was actually helping me put the pieces together. Can refresh my memory a little bit. It happened a long time ago. That's true. This happened almost four years ago. Right? Yeah.

Okay. And your original interviews with detectives was almost three years ago. Yes. All right. We're going to get back to that. Then the questioning became personal. Is Crozer, do you have mental health diagnoses? Do I what?

Any mental health diagnosis? No. You're not diagnosed with any mental health problems? No. You're sure? Yes. What about anxiety? Yeah.

Do you take medication for that? Not so much anymore, no. Okay. Are you any medications today? No. Wendy Lewis then turned to Carmen Lobber's possible motivation to testify for the prosecution. The troubles she was having completing drug court. Okay. Well, now it's January of 22.

of 22. Okay. So you're missing drug tests. Then on January, January 28th drug court, they said you had tested positive for methamphetamine. Yes. And you said, no, retested, that's not true. I didn't use. But then the next week, you came back and you said, well, actually, I did use. You don't need to retest it. I relapse. which happens. Well, yes, working with active users, once again, with the cleaning company that you were all still active users. Well, but it was your choice to use. Absolutely, but if you get,

you keep getting offered and offered as a drug addict, yes, obviously you're going to relapse. You're going to fold. And you lied about it. Yes. All right. That's what addicts do when you're using. That's true.

Addicts lie. All right. Active addicts. Wendy Lewis is trying to show the jury that Carmen Lobber cannot be trusted. She's a recovering addict who has a lot to lose. So you're arrested on April 26th. You don't know yet about the firearm. You said you've forgotten about the marijuana,

but you don't know about the firearm. You just know you were brought in on driving on a revoked license. Yes. The next day, Detective O'Driscoll and Detective Maynard show up to talk to you. April 27th, 2023. I guess it was the next day, yeah. All right. And at that time,

you didn't know why they were there no I had no idea but they told you hey we searched your place we found a gun under your bed correct yes and they tell you your drug court is in jeopardy you could be violated yes and if you're violated and you go back and be sentenced on your two first-degree felonies and your third-degree felony you are looking at two five to life prison sentences and one zero to five prison sentence potentially. Lewis then came back to things that were personal, things that the jury could possibly see as really attacking Carmen Lobber. All right, but during that interview, you told the officers numerous times, I have been using drugs since I was sixth grade. Yes.

My brain is not that good. Correct. I don't remember things. Yes. You have a learning disability also, correct? Yes. Can you share what that is? No. I have no. I would ask you to share what it is. That was a question, not a request. Sorry. I apologize, but it could be relevant. Ms. Lois. Ms. Lover, if you would please answer the question.

Yes, I do have one. And what is it? It's not the highest education of, it's a low grade education. Is that because you struggled in school because you're learning disability? Yes. All right. There's nothing to be embarrassed about. A lot of people have that. Right.

Carmen Lobber wiped tears from her eyes and then Wendy Lewis played an interview with Carmen Lobber and the detective showing the incentive she had to cooperate. So here's where it's at with McKay in your drug court. Okay. They are looking for, and this is going to be upsetting, but let me finish, they are looking to pull your drug court deal and ask for seven years on your two first. Five years for the first, the one felony and then a 40% portion for the second for seven years. The only exception to that and the only thing that they're willing to kind of help you out with is if you can help us out. And by so he means like give up the details that will ensure Corey gets convicted of murder.

So that's what they said to you. Yes. Yes. Let me just identify a couple of people here. The first person speaking to you telling you that first he says I talked to McKay. McKay is the prosecutor in Wasatch County Drug Court, right? Correct. McKay King.

Yes, correct. All right. And that in talking to McKay King, you may be getting seven years in prison on your state case. Correct. But if you help them out, that's not going to happen. Correct. And by helping them out, that means you need to give us the details

that will ensure that Corey gets convicted, correct? Correct. And you are willing to do whatever it takes to save yourself from getting kicked out of drug court and going to prison, correct? I'm going to go forward with the truth, yes. The suggestion by the defense here is clear that Carmen Lobber has a major incentive to possibly lie. She can stay out of prison by testifying for the state.

But will this work. The jury will ultimately decide how credible Carmen Lobber is or isn't. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Annette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.