Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 3 Male DNA Profiles at Idaho Murders Home Helps Accused Killer, Attorney Says

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

When crime scene investigators collected evidence from the home where four University of Idaho students were brutally murdered, they discovered three male DNA profiles. Bryan Kohberger faces trial for allegedly carrying out the gruesome quadruple killing. Prosecutors say Kohberger’s DNA was on a knife sheath found under one of the victims. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy and defense attorney Jonna Spilbor discuss what the unidentified DNA could mean at trial in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.Get 50% off of confidential background reports at truthfinder.com/lccrimefix and access information about almost anyone!Host: Angenette Levy https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest: Jonna Spilbor https://twitter.com/jonnaspilborlawCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoAudio Editing - Brad MaybeGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@LawandCrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Prosecutors in Idaho say they have DNA linking Brian Koberger to the murders of four University of Idaho students. But it's not the only DNA that was found at the scene. And could other DNA point to other suspects during the trial? Thanks for joining me for Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Brian Koberger's trial for the murders of those four University of Idaho students could begin in the spring of 2025. That's an entire year from now. We know about some of the evidence in the case, but there's still a whole lot we

don't know. One of the things that's been discussed a lot is DNA. Koberger maintains he didn't kill Maddie Mogan, Kelly Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Kurnodal in a house off campus in November of 2022, but prosecutors say he's their guy and the evidence points squarely at him. Koberger's DNA, according to police, was found on the snap of a knife sheath on Maddie Mogan's bed. That DNA profile led to Koberger's DNA, according to police, was found on the snap of a knife sheath on Maddie Mogan's bed. That DNA profile led to Koberger being identified as a suspect using genetic genealogy. But Koberger's defense team said in a court document last year that there are three other unknown male DNA profiles that were found at the scene of the murders. Two were inside the house and one was outside of the house on King Road on a glove. Many people provided DNA during this investigation.

One person even had their DNA taken from a discarded cigarette butt. So how big of a deal could unidentified DNA be in Brian Koberger's trial if it happens in 2025, as we expect? Joining me to discuss this is law and crime host, Jonna Spilbor. She's also a defense attorney. Jonna, thanks for coming on. When we first heard about this unidentified DNA last summer, that there were three profiles, two in

the house, one on a glove outside, we were all like, wow, that sounds like it could be a big deal. But I also think about a college house as just a giant petri dish full of God knows whose DNA. So what do you think about the defense specifically naming or identifying these three sources of male DNA that were never identified or they're unknown? I think it's a huge deal. And of course, I agree with you that in this type of house, there's going to be a lot of DNA from a lot of different people, right? And it might have gotten there in non-nefarious ways. But when you're dealing with a crime of this magnitude, of this seriousness, which really, and I keep going back to this, really started out as a needle in a haystack type of investigation, then you do want to test all the testable DNA at the crime scene. So this is going to be big,

and especially from a defense perspective, if it doesn't get, you know, sort of fettered out pre-trial, you can bet your bottom dollar that this is going to, a third party defense, this kind of DNA untested would be monumental in this case for the defense. I assume that any DNA that they believed was significant, they tried to identify if there were unknown profiles that the state did, and they may still be doing that. I mean, this was filed last last summer and so they talk about in this um filing the defense had said you know they they got some guy's dna off of a cigarette butt you know they had found that probably a potential suspect so there are all kinds of ways to get dna from people i'm sure some people surrendered their dna willingly said yes swab my cheek whatever um but going through and looking at all of that i mean there's

going to be a dna in certain places that could be significant and the defense could point to that and say oh well this is somebody you don't know about and it could be anybody who had access to that house correct and and if the defense is given an opportunity to do its own testing that can happen too which is sort of it's weird right because the defense doesn't have an obligation to do that it's not their burden of proof you would think i mean just let's think about this case for a minute you would think that the DA, the prosecutor, would want to gather all of the DNA that is available. And as you know, we just talked about that could be quite a lot. But with that, with the testing and doing the same thing that they applied allegedly to Kohlberger, they could figure

out whether they have the right guy. I mean, that's as that's that is the crux of this case. It's not enough to prove that a crime has been committed. And frankly, they don't need to prove that. That's obvious. They need to connect the dots. They need to find the right person or people who committed this crime. So the defense is going to be screaming that they want the state to go ahead and test that DNA. And if they don't, then they're gonna want their own sample of it

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slash lccrimefix and start accessing information about almost anyone. There was a hearing where the prosecution said, they kind of said that the defense was mischaracterizing this, you know, it couldn't be put into CODIS. I'm sure there are certain standards that need to be met, or you have to have so much DNA. I'm not exactly 100% sure how that works, but there are certain things that are required in order to put a sample into CODIS. So what could be going on with that? Is it maybe there's not enough of it? Or why would you not put something into CODIS? That's the combined DNA index system of known felons that is run by the FBI. Right. And usually, if there's not enough to be tested, that is usually the biggest sticking point. But in a case this kind of newish science going on. And you would

think that, all right, well, if they're going to do that, if they're going to apply this, what I'm sure the defense is going to term as junk science, then why not also collect all the collectible DNA and do what you got to do to make sure that you have the right defendant? Because the other part of the DNA, the other side of the DNA coin here, is the defense is going to argue that, well, hang on. Because of the gruesomeness of this crime, right, four victims, bloody, massacred, why is it then that there is none of their DNA, if this continues to hold true, why is there none of their DNA anywhere in Kohlberger's

life? Car, apartment, parents' home, what have you. So when you take those two things, right, when you take the lack of maybe the state testing other DNA samples, and you take the fact that there is no DNA where there should be DNA, do you get to reasonable doubt in such a heinous case? I'm sure that's where the defense is going to go as well. And this is a heinous case. I mean, they're saying, the defense said that basically there's been no connection established between Koberger and these victims. Now, we don't know that to be true. The state's never come out and refuted that. And they don't have to at this point. They don't don't know that to be true. The states never come out and refuted that. And they don't have to at this point. They don't need to do that. That's all for trial. But the

defense has said there wasn't one speck of DNA from these victims. And you might expect that found in Koberger's car if he indeed is fleeing the scene, even if he had time to clean it up let's say you would expect with such a bloody scene what we thought would be a bloody scene my goodness four kids stabbed that you would find some type of evidence in his vehicle yeah and that's the other thing like you can't dna is so strange you can't actually ever really clean it all up. And if you do, then you're going to find the evidence that somebody was trying to clean it up. And I don't think so far that the state even has that much. absent burning his car, be able to get rid of the DNA that they would have been able to get out of it if he were, in fact, the culprit. So that's why this is really going to be a fascinating case of science, on the one hand,

assuming that we don't have any other defendants that crop up between now and the and the potential 2025 trial and again like and we talked about this you and i um on a on a prior show of yours like this really the fact that they got kohlberger is just so needle in a haystack you would think that they would want to look at other avenues because they know that the prosecution knows this is where the defense is going to go the defense is going to go. The defense is going to say, you honed in on this guy and that was it. And you didn't look at any other possibilities. And that can be a valid defense at trial.

So I think there's a lot brewing behind the scenes that has yet to come out, but hopefully will before this case ends up in front of a jury. Yeah, I just think about how much DNA is floating around that house. I know the state will say, well, the DNA that matters is the DNA on that knife sheath, on that snap. And it's a single source. It's Brian Koberger's. And that's all you need to worry about. I'm wondering, though, what else could be on that sheath? We haven't heard if there is possibly any other DNA of anybody else on that sheath. And that sheath was found under Maddie Mogan's body or on her bed. Yeah.

And you would think that there would be other DNA on that as well. And I don't want to get off on a non-DNA tangent, but it does remind me that, and hopefully we'll hear more about this. You know, some people lived that night. There was a witness who lived and claims to have seen a person in the house. Like, why are we not hearing more from that potential witness about things happening that night?

Maybe, and I think that person could be quite crucial. So I'm anxious to hear if we do learn anything more from that, another roommate who didn't, who wasn't massacred. I think we will. We'll just have to wait for trial to learn more. Jonna Spilbore, thank you as always. And Jeanette, always a pleasure. Thanks very much. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you back here next time. You can download Crime Fix on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your favorite podcasts and new episodes post each weeknight at 6 Eastern time on Law and Crime's YouTube channel.

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