Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 3 Shocking Details From Bryan Kohberger Hearing in Idaho Murders

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

The trial for Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students, may not start until the summer of 2025. His defense attorney also said she still doesn't understand how Kohberger was identified as a suspect more than a year after his arrest. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy talks with attorney Mark Weaver, who has prosecuted death penalty cases, about the developments in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show that delves into the biggest stories in crime.If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without having to leave your couch. To start your claim visit  https://ForThePeople.com/CrimeFixHOST:Angenette Levy: twitter.com/Angenette5CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoAudio Editing - Brad MaybeGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@LawandCrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I'm nervous telling you I'll be ready by summer of 2025. I'm nervous telling you that. A trial for Brian Koberger, the man charged with killing four University of Idaho students, might not start for more than a year until the summer of 2025. I think if we're all being honest with ourselves, a trial in this case is going to happen. And the question is when. This is just one of three big developments from the latest hearing in the case.

I'm Anjanette Levy, and this is Crime Fix. We're actually on the road today covering another case, but we want to focus right now on that hearing for Brian Koberger that took place on Friday in Idaho and some of the shocking developments that came out of it. It's been nearly 13 months since Brian Koberger was arrested and charged with the murders of Maddie Mogan, Kelly Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Carnodle. Koberger has said through a prior attorney that he hopes to be exonerated. He stood silent when asked to enter a plea last year. Judge John Judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf, you'll recall. Now, at least one of the victim's families, the family of

Kaylee Gonsalves, wanted to leave Friday's hearing with a trial date. That didn't happen. The family posted on Facebook, we have no words. Hashtag justice someday. Now, Judge Judge, of course, wants to keep this case moving. That's part of his job, but it's been at a standstill. He recently ordered prosecutors to turn over some genetic genealogy information to the defense, and that has been done. That was a big win for the defense. That usually doesn't happen with that type of information, this genetic genealogy stuff. Prosecutors, of course, want the trial scheduled for this June, the summer of 2024, because the schools in Moscow, Idaho are out, including the University of Idaho.

It should be done during the summertime. And I say that because right across the street there is Moscow High School. The chair is parting all around the courthouse with everybody else who's going to have an interest in this case and being here. And we've already encountered the conflict between those interests. We can't sustain that for weeks and weeks on end. That's just not fair to the students. It's not fair to the school district. It's not fair to the media. It's not fair to the students. It's not fair to the school district. It's not fair to the media. It's not fair to anybody. The other factor is, as you're on your own, we have two universities, part of

our community. And during the academic year, we have graduations. We have numerous sporting events and other university-related events that essentially consume every available hotel or motel room within miles. But Coburger's lead attorney, Ann Taylor, doesn't believe she'll be ready for trial before the summer of 2025, and maybe not even then. Prosecutors have said they believe this trial will take six weeks, but the defense says it will take much longer than that. They believe this trial could take between 12 and 15 weeks. This is, as everybody said today, a very complicated case. And I want to talk a little bit about what drives both our request no sooner than summer of 2025.

And I say that with fear, Your Honor. There are a lot of things that we have to still do. I want the court and counsel to know that we haven't sat around waiting for a scheduling conference to begin doing those things. We have been on this case and active and seeking discovery and reviewing discovery, meeting with experts and working the case since the day we were assigned this case. So with that said, there's still plenty to do. The defense also plans to file a change of venue motion, meaning that they want the trial moved out of Latah County. Latah County has a population of more than 37,000 people,

and that's a very small jury pool, especially when you're talking about a case as big as this one. Now, we've seen two other high-profile cases moved in Idaho recently, the trials of Lori Vallow Daybell and her husband, Chad Daybell. Chad's trial will be held in Ada County, that's the Boise area, just like Lori's was. So things are moving along very slowly in this case, and you can see that the prosecutors and the Gonsalves family are frustrated. There was one pretty shocking moment to me on Friday, and that was the fact that Ann Taylor said

she still doesn't know how law enforcement landed on her client as a suspect. And the clear picture that I'm concerned about is the state's pathway of how Brian Koberger comes to their attention and is identified. I've read that PC affidavit over and over and over again, and I'm not sure. Over a year into this case and everything I've read, and I've spoken with our team, we're not sure how the state decides on Brian Koberger. I know different pieces, but I don't know where they fit together. And the more work I do, the less I know different pieces, but I don't know where they fit together. And the more work I do, the less I know about how they fit together. Just the very thought of setting a trial date so far into the future was disappointing, to say the least, to Judge Judge.

I'm not going to just let it hang for too long. But it's really hard for me right now to set something in 2025, even though that might be just the reality. And I know that there's lots of other issues to the victims. I can't even imagine the pain, the grief, because you can't really go forward if your life is hanging over your head. We'll get back to Crime Fix in just a sec, but first I want to tell you about our sponsor, Morgan & Morgan. It's the largest personal injury law firm in the United States, and they make submitting a claim really easy. You can do it using just your cell phone.

When you are seriously hurt, your injury could be worth millions. And when you're fighting a big insurance company, you need a big law firm like Morgan & Morgan to fight for you and to protect your rights. Morgan & Morgan does not settle for lowball offers. Just in the last couple of months, Morgan & Morgan has had some big verdicts come in. In Florida, one was for $12 million. That was 34 times higher than the highest insurance company offer. In Philadelphia, Morgan & Morgan won a $26 million verdict. That is 40 times the highest insurance offer. And in New York, the firm won a $6.8

million offer. That won a whopping 25 times higher the highest offer. There are no upfront fees. It's free to submit a claim. You only pay Morgan & Morgan if you win. Submit a claim to www.forthepeople.com slash crime fix or click the link in the description. I spoke with Mark Weaver. He is an attorney in Ohio who's done a number of death penalty cases in that state. I talked with him about a number of issues related to this case, including the defense saying they may not be ready for trial until the summer of 2025. This defense team is working really hard to slow down this trial in the hopes that the anger, the bitterness in this community may subside a little before they have to pick a jury. They're doing a lot of things that are kind of

really very low chance passes, if you will. The one that struck me in this hearing was they're asking to change the standard for grand juries from probable cause to beyond a reasonable doubt. That's nuts. The judge denied it. But now moving it back into next summer, not this summer, but next summer, just the latest of their low chance, but very important to them, tactics. Yeah, the indictment thing, that's been kind of a non-starter the whole time. I mean, it was very creative. We said that from the beginning, and then the judge said it was creative. They keep citing the Idaho Constitution. However, we all know that probable cause is the standard in in grand juries. They wanted a preliminary hearing. That's just that's just what it was. That's what they wanted.

Mark, another thing here, you know, there's a massive amount of discovery in this case. They said 51 terabytes they've received so far. And we know how much that is. I mean, it's tons of information. And it reminds me of the Pike County case. And I bring up that case, the Pike County massacre case in Ohio, because you had multiple victims in that case. In that case, eight. In this case, you have four. That case is different, though, because you had four defendants. But still, the first trial in that case we had

covet as a delay but the first trial in that case didn't start for years and years um after the arrest the arrests were in november 2018 trial started in summer of 2023 so that was a five-year delay factoring in covid so is this really that much of a delay? The judge obviously is perturbed. He wants to keep the train on the tracks and keep this thing moving. But it's a lot of information to go through. It is. Now, in Pike County, there were multiple crime scenes. It was multiple defendants and multiple conspiracies.

And so it was a much more intertwined case. 51 terabytes is a lot, but two things to remember. First of all, some of that is probably the defendant's own devices that the state of Idaho has taken to analyze. And so they're giving back the defendant that which he already knows what's there. Secondly, the prosecution is ready to move forward. And remember, they're the ones who have the burden of proof. They've got to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that each and every element of these crimes occurred. And so if anybody should be worried about whether or not they're going to be prepared for trial, it's the prosecution who also has to know everything on those 51 terabytes of discovery. 9,000 tips. It was more than 9,000 tips they said they received in this case. So they turn all of that information over to the defense. The defense is saying, look, we have to do mitigation and we're required to go back three generations because if there is a conviction,

then we go to the penalty phase and we have to basically know his life story to present information to the jury. Is some of this stalling or is some of this just like, wow, this is a huge case and maybe they're in over their heads a little bit? I mean, what is the feeling you get from watching the hearing the other day? The Constitution does not require a perfect trial and it does not require to have a massive army of defense lawyers working on it full time for years on end. We simply need to have a fair trial. Everyone deserves a fair trial. some of the aggravating and mitigating circumstances to now we have to take everything about the

defendant and try to make the jury feel sorry about the defendant and what sort of life they had. That's really never been the purpose of the mitigation phase, but that's what it's become in the last few decades. The defense also says they believe this will be a 12 to 15 week trial, not the six week trial that the prosecution envisions. Do you think that this needs to be a 12 to 15 week trial, not the six week trial that the prosecution envisions. Do you think that this needs to be a 12 to 15 week trial? You know, we have one crime scene, as you mentioned, but four victims and both sides keep calling it a complicated and complex case. When you boil down to it,

could it really be that complicated and complex? When I say say that because they're saying, look, we have this guy's DNA on a knife sheath. We have, you know, his car on video. We have this. We have that. I mean, they're acting like they've got all this information that clearly says this is the guy. Once again, the prosecution is the one with the harder case because the prosecution has the burden of proof. That includes proving that this defendant was at this crime scene and committed these murders. For the defense to say they need twice or even three times the amount of time that the prosecution is estimating suggests to me that they think they're going to have more witnesses than the prosecution. I can't imagine that's true.

Perhaps they've got an alibi witness or two. That'd be unusual in the middle of the night, but okay. They're certainly going to question by cross-examination all of the state's witnesses. That's normal, but you're not going to double and triple and quadruple the time of direct examination. If you do, you're not a very good cross-examiner. It's hard to see what would make the trial as long as they're suggesting. It was interesting when they said that. They also said there's about 400 witnesses and they said they basically talked to maybe 10% of those and people don't want to talk to them, which, you know, I can understand people not wanting to get involved, but it's very, wow, we know this is a big case. And I feel like whenever we get these huge cases like this, everybody goes in thinking, okay, we're going to try this case. And then there are always these delays. But in this case specifically, Mark, there hasn't been one death penalty motion filed. There hasn't been one like motion to suppress. I mean, I haven't seen one motion that wasn't like, oh, we're trying to get the indictment thrown out, which is a fool's errand, in my opinion. I mean, I give them credit for trying to help their client out in that respect. But when have you ever seen a grand jury indictment tossed out? That doesn't happen.

No, it's very rare. This defense team has very little to work with. The prosecution has really made a very strong case. Defense team knows that. As a result, they are just flailing around with what I think are ridiculous arguments. Give the judge credit trying to be reasonable and trying to do this in as fair way as possible. But the judge has the ultimate decision of when the trial is and what comes in. The notion of them not being able to talk to all the witnesses, there is no obligation for prosecution witnesses to talk to defense. That's typical. And once again, there won't be 400 witnesses called. This comes down to some key witnesses, some key evidence. You could try this case in a month and both sides could have it fair. Interesting. Are you surprised that there haven't been any other motions filed, though? Not even the change of venue. I mean,

the change of venue, I feel like those are typically filed really quickly. And there's this huge restrictive gag order in this case and everything's filed under seal. It just drives me nuts. But, you know, the change of venue motion, they could file that. I mean, those are pretty routine in these big cases. You file that and you're just like, look at all this massive media coverage. I mean, they used to bring I remember the defense attorneys used to bring the bankers boxes into court full of like, you know, news'd subpoena all this stuff. You know, they're like, well, this is going to take a lot of work. Well, I think it's pretty clear that you can just go on the Internet and find probably, I could probably spend an afternoon just finding stuff that showed like, hey, like, look at all this media coverage. So that change of venue motion still hasn't even been filed. That's typically done pretty close in time to a gag order.

The problem the defense has is that although this is very well known in this particular county, it's very well known throughout the state of Idaho. I don't know that you could even get outside the state and have people who don't know about this case. That's not the standard. The standard is whether jurors are able to set aside what they know and make their decision based on the facts of the case. And that's a simple vaudeville exercise, talking to the jurors, making sure each side is only able to pick those who can properly set aside any feelings they may have. Any final thoughts, Mark? It's going to be an interesting case. We don't know a lot because so much is done under seal.

The defense is doing the best it can, but it seems unreasonable to push the trial back as far as they're suggesting. Really interesting stuff. Well, Mark Weaver, thank you, as always, for coming on. We appreciate it. Thank you. And that's it for this edition of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy.

Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night. Until then, have a great night. You can download Crime Fix on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your favorite podcasts and new episodes post each weeknight at 6 Eastern time on Law and Crime's YouTube channel. Daniel Camacho does our video editing. Our head of social media is Bobby Zoki. Our senior director of social media is Vanessa Vine. Savannah Williamson is one of our producers.

Diane Kay and Alyssa Fisher book our guests. And Brad Mabey is our audio editor.