Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 5 Reasons Menendez Brothers May Stay In Prison

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. The truth is Lyle and Eric were failed by the very people who should have protected them by their parents. Family members of Lyle and Eric Menendez are rallying around them to support their effort for release. But an uncle of the Menendez brothers believes they should stay behind bars.

Starting point is 00:00:28 Mr. Anderson very much believes that any suggestion that the brothers were molested is not accurate or correct. I look at the facts that could keep the brothers from being released as the D.A. grants a new interview telegraphing what he might do. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Eric and Lyle Menendez, members of their family and their advocates, are pushing hard for them to be resentenced for the murders of their parents, Jose and Kitty Menendez. And it might happen, based on what Los Angeles County DA George Gascon has been saying in the media. But the decision will ultimately be up to a judge. The Menendez brothers' fortunes have certainly changed since the two trials in the 1990s.

Starting point is 00:01:12 The brothers were once pariahs, considered spoiled, entitled rich kids who killed their parents in 1989 so they could gain access to their fortune. But now, more than 35 years after the murders, the brothers have received a groundswell of support for their fortune. But now, more than 35 years after the murders, the brothers have received a groundswell of support for their release. But one family member feels they should stay exactly where they are, behind prison walls, for the rest of their lives. That family member is an uncle of Lyle and Eric Menendez, and his lawyer will join me here in just a little bit. In case you aren't familiar with the case, here's a quick look back. Eric and Lyle Menendez shot and killed their parents, Jose and Kitty Menendez,

Starting point is 00:01:55 in their home in Beverly Hills on August 20th, 1989. An opinion from one of Eric and Lyle's unsuccessful appeals say that Eric told Lyle that his father had been sexually abusing him for years, days earlier, which set off a chain of events with Jose telling Eric that he had told him he was never to tell anyone about the abuse. That confrontation led Eric to believe Jose was going to kill him, according to the records. Two days before the murders, records say the brothers went to several stores to try to buy guns. They were 21 and 18 at the time. The brothers used fake IDs to buy two shotguns, and after they'd shot their parents, they told police that they believed the mafia had murdered their parents. Prosecutors have always said the murders were premeditated and that the brothers

Starting point is 00:02:37 took steps to cover up the crime and tried to come up with different alibis, like going to a Batman movie. The brothers bought things after the murders, like new cars and homes, and there was evidence presented that they hired someone to erase files from their father's computer that might have had something to do with Jose Menendez's will. In the first trial, each brother had their own jury, and both juries deadlocked. The brothers had testified they were sexually abused by their father, Jose Menendez, a successful record executive, and that their mother enabled the abuse. Eric and Lyle argued they were guilty of manslaughter at the first trial, not murder, using an imperfect self-defense argument. At the second trial in 1996, Eric testified about being

Starting point is 00:03:20 sexually abused by Jose, but Lyle did not testify. A single jury found the brothers guilty of first-degree murder, and they were sentenced to life in prison without parole. Fast forward to the spring of 2023, and the brothers filed a petition for a writ of habeas corpus, claiming they should be resentenced or released based on new evidence supporting their claim that they had been abused. Lyle and Eric's lawyers say they discovered a letter that Eric wrote to his now deceased cousin months before the murders. Part of it reads, I've been trying to avoid dad. It's still happening, Andy, but it's worse for me now. I cannot explain it. He's so overweight that I can't stand to see him. I never know when it's

Starting point is 00:04:03 going to happen and it's driving me crazy. Every night I stay up thinking he might come in. I need to put it out of my mind. I know what you said before, but I'm afraid. You just don't know dad like I do. He's crazy. He warned me a hundred times about telling anyone, especially Lyle. And there was a second piece of new evidence the brothers cited to back up their claim of sexual abuse. declaration that said that he too was assaulted by the father and not only assaulted but it happened at the house. The reason that's important is that it corroborates what was testified to in trial number one. It corroborates the fact that the safe place that Jose thought he

Starting point is 00:05:07 had was in the house it corroborates what the family members said was the very uncomfortable rule in that house that you could got not go down the hallway if Jose was with one of the boys. That was the ground upon which he prayed. We have those two items. Eric and I killed our parents together, so I'd say that makes us pretty close. There's been renewed interest in the case due to documentaries and a Netflix series entitled Monsters. And earlier this month, L.A. County District Attorney George Gascon announced more than a year after the Menendez brothers filed their petition that he would review the case. I think the questions that are presented to us is two simple questions. One, one possibility where it's being alleged by his lawyers, and if so,

Starting point is 00:06:27 ask the court to determine whether the person should be resentenced. If they get resentenced, there are multiple things that could happen. They could walk out based on what the court decides, or they can have the sentence given a different shape and perhaps they still on will stay on but for a longer period less lesser period of time or they can have a new trial right those are all options and we will evaluate all of it the stories i cover each day here on crime fix show you just how scary the world can be and one of the scariest things that can happen is if you ever get hurt but i want you to know if you're ever seriously hurt or in an accident, your case could be worth millions. That's where our sponsor Morgan & Morgan comes in. The firm has an army of more

Starting point is 00:07:15 than a thousand lawyers who will fight for you and what you deserve, and they have the track record to prove it. In the past few months, Morgan & Morgan has won big verdicts like $12 million in Florida, $26 million in Philly, and $6.8 million in New York. All were much higher than the highest insurance company offer. Seeing if you have a case can be done in eight clicks or less, and you don't even have to leave your couch to start one. Also, a really great thing, you only pay Morgan & Morgan if you win. There are no upfront fees. So if you're hurt, you can easily start a claim at ForThePeople.com slash CrimeFix. Gascon recently told NBC News that there was division in his office about whether the brothers should be resentenced, but that the decision was ultimately his to make. Now Gascon has told

Starting point is 00:08:02 People.com that he would announce his decision by the end of this week and that he doesn't believe the brothers are a danger to society. So it sounds like Gascon's going to announce that he supports resentencing. Kitty Menendez's sister and other family members support Eric and Lyle's release. For many years, I struggled with terms, to terms with what happened to my sister's family. It was a nightmare none of us could have imagined but as details of Lyle and Eric's abuse came to light it became clear that their actions while tragic were the desperate response of two boys trying to survive the unspeakable cruel of their father. As their aunt, I had no idea of the extent of the abuse they suffered at the hands of my brother-in-law.

Starting point is 00:09:01 None of us did. But looking back, I can see the fear and tension that their father had instilled on them. They were just children, children who could have been protected and were instead brutalized in the most horrific ways. bring in kathy katie she represents milton anderson who is the brother of kitty menendez kathy thanks so much for coming on your client milton anderson does not believe that eric and lyle menendez should get out of prison tell me why certainly and thank you so much for having me so uh mr anderson yes he was kitty's brother's brother, and he's aware of what occurred during the trial, and it is his firm belief that neither of the brothers was molested, and he believes that that was all essentially fake evidence that came in. And the jury did hear quite a bit of evidence regarding that. But they also heard evidence that one of the brothers asked two separate witnesses to come in and commit perjury. So there is sort of this history of the brothers attempting to bring in evidence that is not accurate. And Mr. Anderson very much believes that any suggestion that the brothers were molested is not accurate or correct.

Starting point is 00:10:27 And because of that, and because of the timing of the murders, right? So the brothers planned the murders right after they heard that their dad was essentially going to take them out of the will, which would mean that they wouldn't get or inherit, you know, millions of dollars. And it was only after that, that the brothers came up with a plan and went out and purchased two shotguns, which they purchased in someone else's name or someone else's ID. And then of course the murders were just horrific where they came into the den where their parents were eating and watching TV. And then they used shotguns and murdered both of them at one point in time, reloading before they shot Kitty for the last time. So because of the horrendous nature of the murders and also what he believes the motive to be greed and that he does not believe the claim

Starting point is 00:11:17 that they were molested, he thinks that justice was served and that the correct sentence was imposed at the time. Has your client seen the letter that Eric wrote to his cousin? The defense has said that that letter was mailed, I think, eight months before the homicides took place in which Eric was talking about this abuse. And how does your client respond? How does Mr. Anderson respond to that letter? Because the defense says

Starting point is 00:11:47 this was written eight months before I guess it was found in a box sometime after the cousin Andy died and then came to light that way well I understand that's what the defense claim is I actually don't know if Mr. Anderson has seen that letter. What I would say is that both Eric and Andy testified at the trial and neither one of them ever mentioned the letter, which is somewhat curious, right? So if that letter had actually been written before the murder, you would think that one of them would have said, oh, and by the way, I have this letter where he talks about it. So it would seem to be perhaps suggestive of the fact that the letter was not written before the murder, because had it been, you would think that one of those witnesses would have testified to it after trial. You know, there's obviously dissension within the family

Starting point is 00:12:37 about whether or not the brothers should be released. They were sentenced to life in prison without parole. We now have the DA, George Gascon, you know, looking at whether or not he should recommend a resentencing. You know, has this created a rift within the family? Has this affected the relationship between Joan, Aunt Joan, the sister of Kitty and your client who supports the brothers being released and your client? I mean, because it seems like there was this press conference where the family came out, many family members came out and said, you know, we think it's time for them to be released, but obviously your client believes otherwise. Yeah. So what I will say is that so I was a prosecutor for 30 years.

Starting point is 00:13:27 And what occurs or what can occur when you have a murder within the family is that you do have see sometimes a rift. And so that is not unusual when you have a murder that occurs within the family. family, it is really incredibly unfortunate because not only were Kitty and her husband murdered, but the entire family kind of was put in this upheaval. And that is all directly related to the actions of Eric and Lyle Menendez. I don't know when the rift started, but I don't think it started just as recently as the most recent press conference. And I think it started quite a while ago. And yeah, the unfortunate thing is that now you have family members who have taken sides based on what they believe, right?

Starting point is 00:14:14 And they aren't speaking to one another. And that is, again, a very unfortunate consequence when you have a murder within the family. Yeah, it's definitely very, that's very, very sad that this has torn the family apart in more ways than one. Have you been in touch since you represent Mr. Anderson? Have you been in touch with the DA's office? Obviously he has a different point of view in this case, and Kitty was his sister. So have you been in touch with them to voice his opinion as his advocate, as his lawyer? Yes, absolutely, I have. So Mr. Gascon, of course, the first day that he announced anything about this case happened to

Starting point is 00:15:05 be coincidentally the day that there was an incredibly damning headline on the front page of the LA Times talking about a case where Mr. Gascon had essentially released a juvenile who had committed two murders, and that person is now charged with another murder. And so that was a very damning headline. And it was that afternoon that he called a press conference to essentially say that he didn't really have anything to say other than he was going to be thinking about and considering the case. And subsequent to that, he was at a debate where he said that he personally would be making the decision

Starting point is 00:15:42 about what would happen in the case. And so on Mr. Anderson's behalf, I have contacted Mr. Gascon. He has not responded to me. I have been informed that the habeas petition is being considered or being handled by one part of the office and the potential of resentencing is being handled by one part of the office and the potential resentencing is being handled by another part of the office, it would appear from an outsider's perspective that the office has no idea of what they're doing and that Mr. Gascon, despite his assurances that he himself would be making the decision, also has no idea of what is going on. It's very unfortunate for Mr.

Starting point is 00:16:23 Anderson because really, as the murder victim's brother, he would like to know what is going on. It's very unfortunate for Mr. Anderson because really, as the murder victim's brother, he would like to know what's going on. And it's somewhat offensive that the office, Mr. Gascon, who has said that he will be making the decision and is considering the decision, that he will not respond to emails to say, yes, I have. And by the way, I would like to hear what Mr. Anderson has to say, and I'd be happy to meet with him. That has not occurred. And because of that, Mr. Anderson remains somewhat in the dark. And that's despite our request to get information. We, of course, have heard from various media sources that a decision is somewhat impending. And yet we have received no actual information

Starting point is 00:17:06 from the district attorney's office on what that will be or steps moving forward. It sounds like just from listening to you talk about this, that you believe this is a political, almost like a political issue or being treated like a political issue by the DA. He's in a tough reelection bid. It's my understanding. So do you feel like this is being used for political gain? It sounds like you believe it is. Oh, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:17:35 And he's not in a tough reelection bid. He's losing badly. He's down by 30 points in the polls. It's pretty clear that he will not be reelected, which is really good for the citizens of Los Angeles County because crime has been just rampant during his tenure in the district attorney's office. So for those of us who live in the county, we're very glad that the election is almost here and that Gascon will be out. But it does appear as though his current

Starting point is 00:18:02 position regarding this case is very politically motivated and he's doing whatever he can to garner any last minute votes from people who might have sympathy for the brothers kathy katie thank you so much for coming on i appreciate it thank you so much for having me i want to turn now to josh ritter he is the host of courtroom confidential on youtube also a defense attorney, former prosecutor, and has followed the Menendez case closely. Josh, how do you think this is going to pan out? We have George Gascon reviewing the case. It seems like he's forecasting or telegraphing that he is going to recommend a resentencing, and we know he's in a tough

Starting point is 00:18:41 reelection bid. Yeah, you're right. If I were a fortune teller, I'd say that all the signs kind of point towards something happening along those lines. I can't imagine him calling a press conference, the family putting together the press conference that they did, and that all leading up to a big nothing. So my guess is he knows that he has the power in his office to go ahead and recommend a resentencing. And I think that they have an actual chance of that happening, which is amazing because if that does happen, the next thing that will happen is it will be set in front of a judge for a hearing. It will probably go back to the Van Nuys court where it was originally tried. A judge who's

Starting point is 00:19:22 sitting there, not the original judge who presided over the case, he's no longer on the bench, but a judge who is sitting there will have those motions in front of them and make a decision. And now you have both the defendant and the prosecution, both sides, pushing towards this idea of a resentencing. If that happens, they have time served and the next order the judge will make will be to release them. But a judge could decide against whatever the prosecutor recommends, correct? I mean, if you have those sides saying this is what we want, a judge could ultimately say, well, no, I'm going to decide this. You're absolutely right. The judge has to make their decision based upon the law. So even though both sides might have kind of equitable reasons why they feel that this is the right thing to do,

Starting point is 00:20:11 the judge has to make a decision based on the law. But the judge has some pretty wide discretion including what they feel is in the interest of justice, which is a lot of leeway, a lot of wiggle room can be found in those words. So a judge could take a look at this. I imagine other briefs might be filed by people outside of these parties, amicus briefs, we call them, by interested people who say that they're opposed to it for whatever reason, for those interests of justice arguments. And you're absolutely right. It's going to be up to the judge ultimately. And a judge could decide that no, a jury has spoken, a verdict was announced, and they have been convicted and they're going to serve their prison term, which is life without parole. The defense has argued in this case that they weren't allowed to present evidence of sexual abuse in the second trial.

Starting point is 00:21:08 I've read through some of the appellate things in this case, and it says that the sexual abuse allegation was discussed in the second trial. So the jury did hear about it, maybe just not as in-depthly as the defense would have liked. So it was in front of the jury and they were allowed to consider that. What are your feelings about that? There was a dramatic change between the first and the second trial, but you're absolutely right. A misnomer is that there was no evidence of abuse. Eric did in fact testify and he testified about the abuse.

Starting point is 00:21:46 But what was more of a significant change was that the judge did not allow for an instruction on imperfect self-defense, which was the defense's argument from the very beginning. A lot of people don't appreciate their argument was never to be let out, to be acquitted. Their argument was find us guilty, but find us guilty of manslaughter by reason of this imperfect self-defense argument. Imperfect self-defense was not given as an instruction and the availability of manslaughter as even an option was not presented to that second jury. So they really only had the choice between first degree murder or a flat out acquittal. And given that there was that limited amount of abuse

Starting point is 00:22:26 defense and really nothing for the jurors to do with it other than acquit them, the jurors made the decision to go ahead and convict. Well, it will be interesting to watch it unfold and see what happens in the month ahead. Josh Ritter, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And that's it for Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 5 Reasons Menendez Brothers May Stay In Prison

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 5 Reasons Menendez Brothers May Stay In Prison

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