Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 5 Revelations in Bryan Kohberger Hearing Over 'Forgotten' Evidence

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

A Moscow police detective testified at a hearing about information he received from the FBI about Bryan Kohberger's cell phone records. Kohberger's lawyers have accused prosecutors and the FBI of trying to hide evidence related to an FBI analysis of Kohberger's cell phone records and video that was collected as part of the investigation. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy breaks down Detective Lawrence Mowery's testimony and what it means in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Get 50% off of confidential background reports at https://www.truthfinder.com/lccrimefix and access information about almost anyone!If you’ve used Incognito mode in Google’s Chrome browser, find out if you have a claim in a few clicks by visiting https://www.incognitoclaims.com/crimefix/?v=cf6Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoAudio Editing - Brad MaybeGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@LawandCrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I'm playing with the Moscow Police Department. What is your role there? I am a detective. A Moscow police detective takes the stand as Brian Koberger's attorneys fight to get more evidence collected against their client. I have five revelations from a hearing about cell phone records, videos, and a website. Thanks for joining me for Crime

Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Brian Koberger's lawyers have filed several motions basically asking judge judge to order prosecutors to turn over additional information and evidence to them. Prosecutors have repeatedly said that they have turned over everything they have and there's more coming, but Koberger's attorneys haven't been buying it. They filed several motions under seal, of course, which is frustrating to those of us covering the case because we don't know what's being discussed since we can't read it. But basically, Koberger's lawyers have been telling Judge John Judge, hey, we need this information. We believe we're entitled to it, but we haven't received it. Judge, tell the prosecutors and the FBI to give us the information. Now, we know that some of this relates to two items that

are really important in this case, cell phone tower data from the FBI and video. This is a law and crime legal alert. Google Incognito tracked users browsing data without their knowledge. Mass Tort Alliance, one of our legal sponsors, is helping users file for compensation because Google misled users about the privacy of its Incognito browser. If you've used Google Incognito anytime since 2016, you can start your claim by answering less than 10 questions. Log on to incognitoclaims.com slash crime fix. At a recent hearing, things got pretty heated when Koberger's defense attorney, Ann Taylor, accused prosecutors of helping the FBI hide things from them related to cell phone evidence. Here's just a little bit from that hearing back on May 2nd. So if I talk about

things that are in the affidavit, and if I talk about things that we're seeking that the state wants to hide, I think that's fair game for the public to hear. I do, for the record, need to clarify the representations of the defense that we are intentionally withholding things that they're entitled to is just utter nonsense. We have strived, we are continuing every week to provide additional discovery. We have more discovery coming. We continuing every week to provide additional discovery. We have more discovery coming. We hope that much of what they felt they had to file a motion to bail on instead of being patient and wait because our discovery deadline is in September. So as you can see, it got a little testy in the courtroom.

Latah County prosecutor Bill Thompson called the allegation that his office was hiding evidence from the defense utter nonsense. Cell phone evidence, specifically cell phone tower evidence, will be very important in Brian Koberger's trial. A date for it has not yet been set, of course. Prosecutors and police say that is just one piece of evidence that links Koberger to the murders of Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Kernodle back on November 13th of 2022. Koberger maintains that he didn't commit the murders. But prosecutors say cell phone evidence shows that Koberger was out and about that morning traveling away from Moscow

and back to Pullman using a roundabout route after killing the four students. One thing they're relying on is CAST technology from the FBI. CAST stands for Cellular Analysis Survey Team. I'll have more on that technology in just a bit. But first, Koberger's defense has been demanding additional information from the FBI about their cell phone tower analysis as they try to present the court with more information about a potential alibi for Koberger, who claims he was out and about that night driving around and looking at the stars. Koberger says he was in Pullman, Washington and not Moscow, Idaho, as the state contends. So during a hearing a few days ago, Moscow police detective Lawrence Mowry testified about receiving some information

about Koberger's cell phone records from the FBI. He said the files were sent to him in December of 2022 and in April of last year. Well, let's start with the 48-hour. What was contained in there? There was older 48-hours. That was the AT&T records, the original records. And there's a 48-hour session log. Let's go with the session log. What was in there? Yeah, appeared to be the AT&T records that possibly were inputted, as well as some JSON files that were probably produced by CASPIS. JSON files were produced by CASPIS. Is that right?

I would assume that. I didn't create those files. What date were they created? I believe one was in December, the other was in April. December of what year? And April of what year? Could you tell who created those? I could not. How did you get those? I was provided those via email. By who? By Nick Balance of the FBI. What did you do with those? I gave them as soon as I realized they were in my possession, I contacted the prosecutor and gave them. And that would be just yesterday, is that correct? Yes. What did you do with them prior to that time?

They were sent to me. I put them in a folder and I didn't do anything else with them. That's why I forgot them. So Detective Mowry says that he received these files and put them in a folder and forgot that he had them. He says he had been accessing them to prepare exhibits for the grand jury in the spring of 2023. Meanwhile, the defense has repeatedly asked for records related to cast and analysis of cell towers related to Brian Koberger's cell phone the morning of the murders. The prosecutor has said he would turn that cast report over when he received it. So did the police have this report and not turn it over to the prosecutors until last week? That's still unclear.

Detective Mowry answered questions about how he prepared the exhibits for the grand jury to view. After you put those call detail records in, do you have to do anything with cell towers? With the AT&T, no, because the cell tower locations are in the AT&T CD-LN. Okay. So you put that record in, the tower locations are already part of the call detail record that you put in? Yes. Is that something that you have electronic on your computer, and then you open your CASFIS program and just import it into the program? Yes.

AT&T provides both PDF and text documents of the file, and I use the text document to put into the test is to have it adjusted. And when you do that, what gets exported? Nothing. At that point, nothing is exported or created that I know of. Can you export the session that you're working on? Can export session log, yes.

Did you do that? No. How did you create screenshots? By using the built-in Windows Snip tool, as well as the built-in Windows game console, or we would call it the game bar, which is just accessed by hitting Windows G. That allows you to record your screen.

Are those the only two things you did, is screen clip and screen record? Yes. How many times did you use Call Detail Records in the Cast Biz program? Probably a dozen times. I'm not sure. So Detective Mowry said he took screen grabs from what he put into this program, but he didn't save the session. So Ann Taylor wonders why that didn't happen. She's also asking questions about what he entered into this CAST software to produce the exhibits. Well, you're asked by somebody else who's actually doing this part of the investigation

in the caves to produce something for the grand jury to use. And I'm curious about what you relied on, what you, to get to that point. I want to know all the records you relied on, all of the emails, all of the conversations you relied on to produce this thing that you're not the expert for. So I had promoted the application for the 18-key records, received the 18-key records. Those records were also given to another investigator who was the main investigator doing the CBR records.

The prosecution then asked me to provide or create some kind of visualization of the call detail records and examine the call detail records for the four hours and the running question. four hours, three questions. Just to be really sure, when you talked about writing the two warrants for AT&T, we're talking about two warrants that relate to Brian Kovrig, or there were a lot of other warrants. Is that right?

Correct. Okay. Yes. I just want to be really clear on that. You've taken the CAST training, is that right? Yes. And you know there's a way to save your session, is that correct? Yes. Ann Taylor, of course, has her own expert who will look at all of this information and form his own conclusions. So Ann Taylor's curiosity stems from the fact that Detective Mowry wasn't the lead person

dealing with the cell phone records, but he was asked to create exhibits for the grand jury to use to indict Brian Koberger on murder charges. Cell phone records are a critical piece of evidence, as I mentioned in this case. And you heard Detective Mowry say there's a four-hour period of time that's critical. That would cover the time of the murders. Ann Taylor continued with questions about the files related to the cell phone records. Those three files that we just talked about, along with the CASP is 48 and the CASP is full.

Are those copied so that I can have those now? Yes. And you referred to emails. How many emails did you find when you were preparing for this hearing? Eight to five. Are those included for me to have now as well? Yes. Thank you.

So now Ann Taylor has that information. Whether it's the information she was seeking from the FBI, we don't know. She had just received it that day. But she now has additional information from investigators and Moscow police got these files about the cell phone data from the FBI more than a year ago. The prosecution then asked Detective Mowry about the records. So you were talking about how it does not automatically save. It does not. Okay. And you chose not automatically save? It does not.

Okay. And you chose not to save? No. And in the exhibit that was provided, the actual text says that if you need to save the accession time. Okay. And can you tell me why did you save these settings? I was creating the visualization exhibits. That's what I was doing with that. Do you have any reason to save the settings? No. Could this be recreated or redone in the same fashion?

Yes, I can open the software, drag the CDRs back in, and in a very short time, it is generated. And it would give you the same information? Yes. Is that why you didn't save it? Yes. I'm going to tell you more about what the defense asked Detective Mowry, including questions about videos. But first, I spoke with retired FBI agent and attorney Bobby Chacon recently about CASAST technology and why it is so important in

this specific case. Yeah, the CAST is the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, and that report would be the data of Kohlberger's cell phone movements that the FBI provided that assistance to Idaho for this case. It is an interesting situation because the FBI is not a party to this process. They're not a party to this proceeding. So they're not in court at these hearings. So it's almost like the court either has to compel the FBI to come in and provide that or compel the state to get it from the FBI. And I would assume that's what the defense is going to try for, to have the court compel the state to get it from the FBI, whatever it is that they want. Or they can, you know, I mean, I guess they could

subpoena the FBI into court, the FBI agents into court to provide that information and or testimony about it. But I think that CAST in recent years has claimed to have technology that can greatly increase the accuracy of cell phone triangulation data much more accurate than was previously done in the past. That actually, though, is subject to some controversy. There are some experts in that field that push back on the FBI's claims of how accurate that can actually be. Now, as we know, the prosecution is relying heavily on cell phone information in this case, and so is the defense. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because not only is it a big part of his alibi, but it's also a big part of the prosecution's claims that he was at that house, not only on the night of the murder, but

maybe on previous occasions as well. So I think that cell phone data is going to be a huge piece of the evidence in this case, both for the defense and for the prosecution. So, you know, for his alibi and for their theory of the case that he was in that area, you know, again, on the night of the murder and previously. So I think that there, you know, you have the DNA on the ninth sheet, you have the witness that was left alive in the house, and you have the DNA on the ninth sheath. You have the witness that was left alive in the house. And you have the cell phone data. Those are the three big pillars here, I believe. And so I think that that cell phone data is definitely going to be heavily contested, both in these pretrial motions and hearings and at the trial in front of a jury.

I think you're going to have a lot of expert testimony come in. It's going to be kind of a battle of the cell phone experts in this case. I want to take a short break from this update on Brian Koberger's case to tell you about something that can help you learn more about the people you meet every day. It's a great website and it's called truthfinder.com. Truthfinder is one of the world's largest public record search services. Truthfinder has just one goal, and that is to help you and me learn the truth about the people that we meet. Here's how it works. Simply log on to truthfinder.com and put in a name.

Within minutes, maybe even seconds, you will get reports that include phone numbers, addresses, friends, family, criminal records, and much more. It will also show you sex offender statuses for the people who live in your neighborhood. The cases that I cover make it clear that you have to do everything you can to keep you and your loved ones safe. So right now, Crime Fix listeners and viewers can get 50% off of confidential background reports at truthfinder.com slash lccrimefix. Log on to truthfinder.com slash lccrimefix. Log on to truthfinder.com slash lccrimefix and start accessing information about almost anyone.

So this is why that CAST report is so important to both the prosecution and the defense. The prosecution says it's part of proving Koberger is the murderer, while the defense believes it will help show that Koberger wasn't near the crime scene. But prosecutors say there's other evidence that places Koberger in the area of the King Road house the night of the murders, and that's video. Video is something else that came up during this

hearing, specifically video from the Red Star coffee shop that's not far from the house on King Road. And do you... I have a specific one that I, a couple of them, I want to ask you about. One is from Red Star Coffee Shop. Do you recall receiving that video? Okay. And... And are you aware that it was hooked in or brought in by Idaho State Police? No. How would I find out about those videos?

I don't know. You'd have to go through the USB drives to find out what was given. Is there somebody else I should ask about specific ones to track where they went? I don't know. I don't have that information. Okay. So you heard Ann Taylor. She wants to know more about videos that were collected from that Red Star coffee shop. It's on that main drag that goes into Moscow, Idaho from Pullman, and it's not far from the house on King Road, as you can see on the map.

Why are these so important? She didn't say, but we know that police said previously that Koberger's car was at the house on King Road the night of the murders. It was identified as a white Hyundai Elantra between the years of 2011 and 2013, but the FBI later expanded that window to 2011 through 2016. Koberger's, of course, was a 2015 Hyundai Elantra. Now, the location of Brian Koberger's white Elantra the morning of the murders will also be critical. Was the Elantra seen at the King Road house the the same one as Coburgers. Right now, the defense says, no, it wasn't. The defense also had questions about Moscow police attempting to find other videos or photos from that morning. During the course of your work, did you make contact with

the Idaho Department of Transportation to talk about some of the cameras that cover main roads coming into and out of Moscow. Yes. And did you attempt to make preservation of any items? Yes. What items did you want preserved? I was trying to see if they had, say, video or still images from those spots. What did you learn? That they do not retain those. So Detective Mowry said those

photos and videos were not retained by the Idaho Department of Transportation. He had also looked into whether a weather website called windy.com had photos that could be saved and that might show a vehicle. What do you recognize that exhibit? So these were emails that I was trying to find some kind of contact information for winfee.com, a website that does weather-related information as well as some links to images from cameras that are covering the highway. And did you learn that you could have some still shots preserved? I did. Did you have some still shots preserved? I did not. Okay. So Mowry said he didn't preserve the screenshots. Assistant Prosecutor Ashley Jennings followed up about the questions about searching windy.com for those images. Mowry said the day before the hearing, he looked on the site yet again.

From going on the website yesterday, it's a public website, so I was able to go back to it. I don't remember exactly. I believe that within 24 hours, it's hourly. Within a week, it's daily. Within 12 months, it's monthly. And and after that I'm seeing probably like three months or so. Can you explain why you didn't preserve those images from Wendy.com? When it was discussed with other investigators, we wrote the volume gotten by the lead of this company. One image per day, I'm afraid, wasn't what we were interested in. So there is no evidentiary value? None that we knew of.

Okay. And have you since gone back and found some screenshots? Yes. It's what's available on the publicly available website? You can go to wendy.com and grab some screenshots of the evidence. And you've now done that? I have. Anything of evidentiary value? No.

Have those been turned over anyway? Yes. So Detective Mowry said he didn't find anything of evidentiary value? No. Have those been turned over anyway? Yes. So Detective Mowry said he didn't find anything of evidentiary value. Most of the images were daytime images, but he turned them over anyway. So we know that now the prosecution has turned over additional information to the defense about Brian Koberger's cell phone records and additional information about video they were seeking. The hearing ended without any decisions being made other than the exhibits mentioned during the hearing were sealed by the judge. The hearing will be continued on Thursday and it will be open to the public and it will air right here on Law and Crime's YouTube channel. So stay tuned to see

who that witness will be. That's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.