Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 6 Pieces of Damning Evidence Against Alec Baldwin From Armorer’s Trial

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

Alec Baldwin’s manslaughter trial for the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins is scheduled to begin next week. But a preview of the evidence was already made public during the trial of armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed earlier this year. Baldwin maintains he didn’t pull the trigger of the revolver that fired and killed Hutchins. But prosecutors say the evidence disputes his claims. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy looks at damning evidence from Gutierrez-Reed’s trial in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/crimefix to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@LawandCrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law & Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Well, let me show you something. Hold on. Step back to your original mark. So, 1-1,000, 2-1,000, 3-1, I'm getting up. Then when he drops his arm, Helena, get out of here. He drops his arm, that means Brady's close. I'm going to start to really get up. That's Alec Baldwin on video waving a revolver around on set as he's giving directions. It's just one piece of damning evidence that prosecutors will likely use against him at his upcoming trial for the death of

cinematographer Helena Hutchins. But like a lot of the times they might not even listen to me or really pay attention or be on their phone. Alec was on his phone a lot of that entire thing. Plus, armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's police interview could also hurt the actor. I'm Anjanette Levy and this is Crime Fix. When Alec Baldwin was filming Rust back in October of 2021, cameras were rolling almost constantly. It's a movie set. There's plenty of video of what was happening on set. Alec Baldwin faces an involuntary manslaughter charge for the death of Helena Hutchins.

But if you take a closer look at the indictment charging Baldwin, there are actually two charges the jury can consider. Count one is involuntary manslaughter, negligent use of a firearm, meaning Baldwin was negligent when using that Colt 45 on the set. That's what the prosecution is saying. The indictment says in the alternative,

jurors can consider involuntary manslaughter without due caution or circumspection, meaning Baldwin, quote, did cause the death of Helena Hutchins by an act committed with the total disregard or indifference for the safety of others, and the act was such that an ordinary person would anticipate that death might occur under the circumstances. So those are the two charges the jury will be asked to consider, one or the other. We've already gotten a preview of what the jury will see in Alec Baldwin's trial. The film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, was convicted of one count of involuntary manslaughter at her trial earlier this year. Much of the evidence will be the same at

Baldwin's trial, but some of it will be different. At Gutierrez-Reed's trial, the jury heard testimony about that Colt.45 revolver that Baldwin was holding when he accidentally shot Helena Hutchins that day. Baldwin has maintained the gun just went off and that he didn't pull the trigger. FBI firearms expert Bryce Ziegler testified about accidental firearm discharges. So how is this gun designed in terms of safety with regard to possible accidental discharges when the hammer is in the fully rested position. Right, so when the hammer is fully forward, as I mentioned earlier, the firing pin actually protrudes

inside the frame. So if you have the cylinder fully loaded and the hammer is at rest on a chamber that has a live cartridge in it, that firing pin is actually sitting on the primer of that cartridge. So if I were either to strike the hammer or if I were to drop it and it landed on the hammer, it's going to fire that cartridge. So if you hit the hammer with enough force, it will detonate that primer in that position. And that's part of the design of this firearm. That's just how these are made.

And if you were to look at the owner's manual, which this is one thing I did as part of my exam, you would actually see warnings not to carry this firearm with the hammer at rest on a loaded chamber. So a lot of times it's actually advised that you load one less cartridge in the cylinder, so you have one empty chamber, and that's how it's carried with the hammer forward on that chamber. So these are recommendations in the owner's manual. So this isn't some phenomenon. This is something that's known about the design of these firearms. Ziegler conducted accidental discharge testing on the gun, which destroyed it. It's something both he and the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office knew

could happen, but that's a separate issue. Ziegler came to one conclusion about how the gun fired from the testing he conducted. Did you form an opinion about whether the handler would have to pull the trigger of the gun to make the gunfire? My opinion is that the only reason this occurred is because of the breakage. So in order to move the trigger away from the hammer, that's typically accomplished by pulling the trigger. So in this case, the only way that was possible is because the trigger actually fractured. Okay so in order for you, just so that we're clear, in order for you to make the gun fire without

pulling the trigger when it was in the full cock position, you had to break it. That's what I had to do in my lab. I can't account for all the other possibilities that may have existed in some hypothetical scenario, but this is the result as I tested it in my laboratory. It would not fire without pulling the trigger in the full cock setting without being broken. So that's not good for Alec Baldwin. He's basically saying that the trigger had to be pulled. Firearms expert Luke Haag also testified about the gun and how it was ultimately broken. The piece that would fit into each one of those is the trigger and the trigger

is the black piece here but the tip of the trigger in the industry is called the sear s-e-a-r that's the piece that goes in those three locations and it really sets it rests on this step when it's in the full cock position. So that's somewhat tenuous and the pulling of the trigger causes it to slide off, the hammer to fall. There's a little piece in that circle I just drew. That's the broken off sear of the trigger. So it's an incomplete trigger. And finally, the object up here has two names. The company that makes this reproduction gun calls it the Bolt, B-O-L-T. I've always called it a cylinder stop latch. It was the thing that was securing the cylinder in the safety position, in the full cock position, but not in a loading position. The left side of that goes up into the notches in the cylinder for those previous positions and drops down and allows the cylinder to rotate in the load position. So looking at those both photographically and in person,

I could see that the full cock step or notch on the hammer was broken away, beaten away, or knocked away. Kind of hard to describe it if you don't see it under the microscope. And the sear was broken off. And the stop latch, the little wings, those two pieces that protrude out, that also was broken. And the gun can't work in the normal fashion if it had been that way on the movie set. Haig backed up the FBI firearms examiner's findings that the gun was working properly on the set and broken simply during that FBI testing. What's your understanding of the circumstances of the blows you're talking about. As I understood reading the examiner's notes and report,

it was an evaluation of whether this gun was prone to accidental discharge by an impact to the hammer. I want to take just a second to tell you about a great app I've tried that will give you cash back on things like gas and food. It's called Upside. It's not a confusing rewards

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screen and use the promo code crime fix to get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas that's promo code crime fix for an extra 25 cents back on your first tank of gas. Ross Adiego was a dolly grip on the set of Rust who also testified for the prosecution. He testified about accidental discharges of firearms that occurred on the set before Helena Hutchins was shot and the reaction he received when he raised concerns about it. Did the accidental discharges that you described cause you concern? Yes. Did you articulate that concern to anyone on set?

I did. Who? Both the first AD and his second-in-command on set, the second second AD. And when you say the first AD, who are you referring to? Dave Halls. And what did you say to Mr. Halls? I don't recall my exact words to Mr. Hall, but I expressed my frustration and anger with the fact that safety seemed to be secondary to the production clock.

And without saying what Mr. Hall said, was Mr. Hall's responsive to your concerns? Mr. Hall's ignored me and walked away. Now Ross is talking about Dave Halls' reaction to this, but keep in mind, Alec Baldwin is not just the star of this film. He's also a producer. That adds an added layer of responsibility to what's going on on the set. Alec Baldwin was Dave Halls' boss, and Baldwin, prosecutors will argue argue set the tone on the set a diego then described what happened when helena hutchins was shot i think joel and joel the director and alec had some brief conversation back and forth about what the goal was for that shot and um and i think alec had drawn it once to kind of audition what he thought his action should be um for uh joel and

um and then he drew it again, and it went off. And, you know, instantly, I mean, a firearm went off in a small wooden church. So the concussion, ears ringing, that moment of panic in everybody. I think the first person I made eye contact with was Selena, who was clearly injured by whatever that gunshot was, that noise we had just heard. And, in fact, she was starting to go flush and I think holding her right side. And then I think that Joel let out some sort of scream or made some noise to indicate he was also injured and um i think i just uh went to my attention went to joel because he was the closest to me um i think reed i recall reed and surge moving um pew out of the way to help helena to, basically to lay Helena down and start

tending to her, figure out what her injuries were or injury. And I started attending to Joel. I think I yelled out that if you can't help us get the f*** out of here. And someone called 911. Joel, I think I yelled out that if you can't help us, get the f*** out of here. And someone called 911. Adiego described what happened next. Right after the gun went off, do you recall seeing Ms. Gutierrez in the church? I do not. And did Mr. Baldwin stay in the church? He sat down in that same pew, I think, in that moment when I yelled out that if you can't help us, you need to get out of here.

I think he sat down and then at some point I know I I looked over and he was gone. OK, now Alec Baldwin was likely in shock. Who wouldn't be? But I'm not sure that it helps him that he walked out of the church when his cinematographer was laying on the ground wounded. That could leave a negative impression of him on the jury. Brian Carpenter, a firearm safety expert, testified about who's at fault when a firearm discharges accidentally.

Are you aware, based on the review of the documents and the materials in this case, are you aware that there were, I think what you're referring to as negligent discharges? Yes. Okay. And are you also aware that with regard to those negligent discharges, Ms. Gutierrez was not in control of those weapons at the moment? It is my understanding, yes. Okay.

So, if there's a negligent discharge on a movie set, ultimately, who's responsible for that? It would be the armorers responsibility. Now obviously that blame also can be split with whoever created the negligent discharge, but if you create an environment for the ND to occur, then the blame is on the armorer and on the person who actually had the negligent discharge. So it's a double sided coin there. So you heard him. He said it's a double sided coin. Two people he said are responsible, the armorer and the person who had the discharge. Of course, in this case,

that is Alec Baldwin. Carpenter then testified about whether some actors check the weapons themselves. Your experience. Do actors generally do their own safety checks of the weapon? And what I mean by that is the actor is manipulating the gun, taking the ammunition in and out, looking at it. You know, I've worked with a few actors that wanted to check their own weapons even after my safety checks occurred, just because they felt more comfortable doing that. As long as I was there standing and observing and letting them do that, as long as my safety checks occurred, they can do as many more safety checks as they feel. However, those safety checks are more for a, I guess, a warm and fuzzy feeling for them,

not for me as a professional because I'm going to make sure that we check it the way that I need to check it, in front of the right people and individually. If they feel like they need to do it again, then by all means. Okay. But that's rare. In your experience, is the director usually allowed to handle the weapons? No, the director generally almost never handles the weapon. And why?

It's just not in his or her purview. I mean, the director is very much 100% the creative driving force of the film, and in that area they are very much focused. So handling a weapon or doing anything with weapons other than saying, I want it to look like this or look like that, or this is what I want to happen in a scene would be about the extent. But handling them, no. Special Prosecutor Kerry Morrissey played a number of clips from filming that showed Alec Baldwin handling firearms on set. I'm going to shoot right.

You want the other side of the camera? I don't want to shoot toward you. Okay. I want to shoot close to you. Alec Baldwin handling firearms on set. Go! Go! And cut! So, can you give us an idea, is it important when we hear, when you're on a movie set and you hear the word cut, is it important that the actors not continue to fire the guns? Yes. When you say cut, everything stops. And it's not just from a creative standpoint. It's also from a safety standpoint. Keep in mind, you're dealing with stunts, special effects, explosives, et cetera, et cetera. So when the word cut is said, everything should cease immediately.

So in this instance where Mr. Baldwin was firing a gun after the word cut, is there anything that you would have done? I would file that under the category of going as the whole thing goes off script. As I mentioned, there were a number of clips, including one where Carpenter said Alec Baldwin appeared to be rushing Hannah Gutierrez Reid. One more, one more, one more. I forgot to recall stuff. No, right away, right away. Let's reload. Here we go.

So, Helena. Hi. How many movie sets do you think you've worked on in your career? A hundred. That conduct that we're seeing on the part of Mr. Baldwin, is that typical conduct from an actor on a movie set? No. Why not? Well, number one, he's basically instructing the armorer how to do their job at that point, telling them that we should have had the gun on second reload, you know, hurry up,

give it to me, fast, fast, fast. This is that moment. This is that moment I spoke about earlier. This is that moment that you need to stop and say, no, I'm not going to hurry up. I'm going to slow down. And we don't need to be passing off weapons this fast or loading guns this fast. This is creating an unsafe and nerve-wracking situation, to describe it in more layman's terms, always on any kind of live training exercise, military training or whatnot, you don't want to put people in a nervous position. That creates, and you can stress a level of stress that's necessary in realism training for military and law enforcement. This is not that. This should be separate and apart from that. And even when that's being done under those circumstances, it's done in a control manner. But rushing with firearms and telling someone to rush with firearms is not normal nor accepted. Still photos of other crew members on set were also displayed for the jury, indicating

there may have been just a lax attitude toward gun safety on set. What's your concerns, if any, about what we're seeing here? The same behavior by that same stunt performer is the gentleman in the hood walked by him. He had the muzzle pointed directly at his back. And keep in mind, and this is very important, very important, that knowing what we know now and the reason we're here in court is that there were live rounds on the set of Rust. So you maintain one of the first safety rules is treat all weapons as they are always loaded. And that's to mitigate any problem that might happen downstream. So you have to assume that there may have been live rounds in any of these firearms that we're watching in these videos.

There were live rounds there. So imagine the concern that you would have knowing that at any point in time, any of these handguns or long guns could have a live round in it. So then it makes it a lot more concerning when that double-edged shotgun is pointed to that man's back. Okay. Hannah Gutierrez-Reed did not testify at her trial, but the jury heard from her in her interview with detectives. She talked about the firearms training she held for actors, including Alec Baldwin. What do you teach actors or crew members when it comes to gun safety? So it really also depends on the actors too. You know, like big ones like Nick Cage, if they tell me, or if they tell the

director like you know like that they don't really care to do it i can try to teach them for the most part but like a lot of the times they might not even listen to me or really pay attention or be on their phone alec was on his phone a lot of that entire thing but for the most part, they put me in training this time. It was pretty irregular how I trained actors this time. This time they put nine people all together in one day that I was supposed to train. And during this time, they put a ton of producers right there.

Normally I train the actors one-on-one. It makes them feel comfortable. It allows them to not be distracted and everything. And this time they had me training three people at once and a ton of producers behind me. The director is there too. The producers are talking to the actors. The actors were distracted even too. And I tried to do my best to work with all three of them. So Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, she was a young armorer in the business. She said that Alec Baldwin was on his phone most of the time during the safety training. If true, she may not have felt comfortable standing up to him.

I've spoken to other armorers and firearms experts who are more experienced, and they told me when you're the armorer, you are in charge. They wouldn't have put up with that, they said. Gun safety is just too important. The jury also heard from first assistant director Dave Halls. He was also the safety coordinator. She opened up the latch to the revolver. I recall seeing three to four what I believe to be dummy rounds. I had seen the dummy rounds before. But sir, let me ask you, you indicated that you only saw three or four. You didn't see six. I don't recall her fully rotating the cylinder. Okay.

You don't recall her fully rotating it? I do not. Okay. And even though the cylinder wasn't fully rotated, did you let that safety check sort of pass? I did. Pulse testified that Gutierrez-Reed handed Alec Baldwin the gun and explained what happened after that. She took a few steps to Mr. Baldwin and gave Ms. Baldwin the gun. Okay.

To the best of your recollection, Ms. Gutierrez hands the gun to Mr. Baldwin. Walk us through what happens after that the revolver is placed Mr. Baldwin had a holster that the gun was basically at his chest and his action was to take the gun out and point it at the two U.S. Marshals.

And he was just pulling it out. I'm sure he was getting used to that action. He was in communication with Miss Hutchins about where to point the gun. Do you recall, sir, was Mr. Souza also in the room? He was. Was Mr. Souza also participating in how to set up this shot, do you recall? No, I just recall that it was communication between Mr. Baldwin and Helena.

Okay, and then what happened? The gun went off. After you admittedly do an improper check of the firearm, isn't it true that you handed that firearm to Mr. Baldwin? It's not true. Do you know that your account conflicts with Mr. Baldwin's? I am aware of that. And do you know that it conflicts with Ms. Gutierrez-Reed? I am aware of that, but I, however, in Mr. Baldwin's initial statement with Detective Hancock, hours, a few hours after the incident on October 21st, when asked the question, who handed him the gun? He said, Hannah did, like she always did.

And after that, he changed and said, you had handed it to him, right? Yes. Now, Alec Baldwin had initially told police in his interview that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed handed the gun to him. But in a later interview with ABC News, he made it sound as if Dave Halls handed the gun to him. Those are conflicting statements that may play against Alec Baldwin at his upcoming trial. Dave Halls is expected to testify in Alec Baldwin's trial.

And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.