Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 7 Bizarre Theories About UnitedHealthcare CEO's Murder

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Luigi Mangione, 26, is accused of murdering UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan on December 4. Since Mangione's arrest, a number of theories about the crime have circulated online about the crime ranging from Mangione being the killer to him being framed. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy looks at some of the theories in the case in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/CrimeFixHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest:Tracy Walder https://x.com/tracy_walderCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. and insult the intelligence of the American people and the American experience. Luigi Mangione yelling to reporters as he's taken into court, charged in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. I take a look at some of the theories floating around about the chilling crime and the man facing charges. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. There are still a lot of questions about the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson and what motivated this crime. And there are a lot of theories out

there about the crime and the man facing charges. In some corners of the internet, you'll actually see people saying that the cops got the wrong guy. The accused shooter, Luigi Mangione, is in custody in Pennsylvania, and he's fighting extradition to New York after a hearing in Blair County on Tuesday. When Mangione arrived, he had something to say. Down, down. I'm completely out of touch. And it's an insult to the intelligence of the American people and the life experience. Police say Mangione shot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson from behind on December 4th

on the street in Manhattan. It was about 6.44 a.m. Mangione, a 26-year-old graduate of the University of Pennsylvania, faces a second- degree murder charge in Thompson's death, along with other charges. Mangione is presumed innocent. I want to be very clear about that. Altoona police said when they encountered Mangione on Monday morning at a McDonald's,

he was wearing a mask and said, I clearly shouldn't have when an officer asked him why he lied to them about his name. But lying about his name and carrying a fake ID are the least of Luigi Mangione's problems at this point. He's accused of killing the CEO of the largest health insurance company in the country. Brian Thompson was in New York City for

an investors conference. So the first thought about a motive would be, does this have anything to do with his job? New York police released images of the suspected shooter, but none seemed to yield the tip that led to his identity. Then on Monday morning, someone at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania called 911 because a man in a surgical mask sitting at a laptop eating a hash brown looked like the man wanted for questioning in the shooting. The commissioner of the NYPD said Altoona police officers recovered a 3D printed gun and silencer, along with other items. They also recovered clothing, including a mask,

consistent with those worn by our wanted individual. Also recovered was a fraudulent New Jersey ID, matching the ID our suspect used to check into his New York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally, officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his motivation and mindset. The NYPD's chief of detectives offered a few more details about the document. It's a handwritten three-page document. We don't think that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document, but it does seem that he has some ill will toward corporate America. The New York Times called the document a manifesto in which he appeared to take credit for the murder. The Times said it stated,

to save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. The writings also reportedly showed anger toward corporations, stating they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allowed them to get away with it. So was this all about health care and Luigi Mangione's feelings about the industry? The cases I cover each day for you here on Crime Fix show you just how scary the world can be. And one of the scariest things that can happen is if you

ever get hurt. But I want you to know if you're ever seriously hurt or in an accident, your case could be worth millions. That's where our sponsor Morgan & Morgan comes in. The firm has more than 1,000 lawyers who will fight for what you deserve and they have the track record to prove it. In the past few months, Morgan & Morgan has won some big verdicts like $12 million in Florida, $26 million in Philly, and $6.8 million in New York. All were much higher than the highest insurance company offer. Seeing if you have a case can be done in eight clicks or less and you don't even have to leave your couch to start one. Also a great thing, you only pay Morgan & Morgan if you win. There are no upfront fees. So if you're ever hurt, you can easily start a claim at forthepeople.com slash crimefix. I want to bring in Tracy Walder. She is a former FBI agent,

also a former CIA officer. Tracy, this seems to be clearly about the healthcare industry. The words deny, defend, and depose were written on the shell casings that were found at the crime industry. The words deny, defend, and depose were written on the shell casings that were found at the crime scene. And those are words used by critics of the healthcare industry. So it makes you wonder, did Luigi Mangione have a claim denied at some point?

We don't know, maybe we'll find that out, but that's clearly something that's used by critics. Those three words are used by critics. Those three words are used by critics of the health insurance industry. Well, thank you for having me, Anjanette. So I think it's several things fold, if you will. I think the first thing is that I'm not certain that he was denied a claim, to be completely honest. He's 26 years old. He hasn't technically aged out of his parents insurance if they still have elected to cover him. Also his family, at least from what I've gleaned online, seems to be of financial means in that

they most likely could pay for the surgery. Now that's not right. Obviously there are healthcare system has a lot of issues to it. I don't think he was denied a claim. Rather, I think that as a result of the spine surgery that has been widely discussed that he had, which I actually had that same surgery at the age of 21. Yeah, I had the same one. I've had it two times since then. I'm wondering if either one, he became extremely agitated by whatever pain he was in. Did he become addicted to substances as a result of that? Or is this a bigger issue, which I think he may have based on some of his books that he read on Goodreads and then some of the reviews that he provided with capitalism as a whole, big business as a whole. And so I'm wondering if it's actually larger than just the healthcare industry.

Yeah. And I was going to actually bring that up later, the reviews on Goodreads, because one of the reviews he wrote stands out. It's very significant. And we'll put that up on the screen. It's for Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber's Manifesto. And it seems as if he was reading that earlier this year because the review is marked January of 2024. And he wrote, he was a violent individual rightfully imprisoned who maimed innocent people. While these actions tend to be characterized as those of a crazy Luddite, however, they are more accurately seen as those of an extreme political revolutionary. He said he found an interesting quote online about Kaczynski that he had the balls to recognize that peaceful protest has gotten us absolutely nowhere.

And at the end of the day, he's probably right. Oil barons haven't listened to any environmentalists, but they feared him. When all other forms of communication fail, violence is necessary to survive. What do you think about him reading, you know, Ted Kaczynski's manifesto? He's commenting on it. I mean, Ted Kaczynski obviously murdered so many people with his bombs and he's living in a shack or, you know, something in the in the woods.

I mean, it was crazy. And then, you know, he he kind of goes missing in July. His mom reports him missing in November. And then we have this incident. So your thoughts on that? You know, it's really, really interesting. I actually see some similarities between them, and that they both actually have very high IQs. As we know, Ted Kaczynski was a very precocious child, very well educated and very, very smart, as is Luigi Mangione. I'm not necessarily surprised then that this was the outcome to a grievance that he had, especially when he's stating it online, that he really does

believe that legislation, peaceful protests, all other means are not working to achieve goals. Thus, really violence is justified. But the interesting thing is, is that one of the first things he says in that quote that you mentioned was that he is rightfully in prison. He did hurt people and you should be punished for that. And so it's really interesting to listen to this conflict that he's having because he starts with the fact that they need to be accountable for violence and then sort of ends with the fact that violence is necessary to achieve these goals. So it's very interesting to almost watch that struggle that he's having. And even in the manifesto, it seemed

what is posted online, what is said to be the manifesto, he takes issue with hurting innocent people, but not people who are not innocent. So he clearly doesn't see people like Brian Thompson, according to the manifesto, as being innocent. It's pretty wild. I want to go back to this back surgery part of this. Let's say he didn't have a claim denied. I mean, he's a young guy. Other than the back issue, as far as we know, we assume he's healthy. I mean, he at least looks fit in the pictures that we've seen. I mean, he was left, people say, his friends say, in excruciating pain from this back issue. And he had pins in his spine. I mean, it looks absolutely awful.

Could it be as simple as he's blaming, you know, the health care industry for not fixing the pain that he was in? In my opinion, yes. And that's probably more where this is going. It's almost as if he thinks this is medical malpractice, and he's confusing these denial of insurance claims with medical malpractice. Neither is right to commit violence about, but I'm wondering if that's more the issue. I have pins in my spine. I deal with pain every day. I had my first surgery at 21. I'm 46 now. It's been 25 years.

This is what I deal with on a daily basis. But my sympathy for someone committing violence as a result of that is not high. And I know that that sounds cold about, you know, what I have to say, but it doesn't mean that you engage in violence. And that's why part of me does wonder if he had issues in terms of dealing with the pain and then maybe developed some kind of dependency. I'll be fully transparent in that I've had to go to therapy because of the pain that I'm in. I've had to do all of those things. I do understand the toll that that takes, but I have never resulted to violence. And so that's why I'm having a hard time having that empathy for the pain that he was in. Yeah. Chronic pain can cause depression and contribute to mental health issues. And it makes

you wonder if he had some underlying mental health issues. And again, I want to say he's innocent until proven guilty. But it seems that this document, it seems he's taking credit for this. You know, one of the theories that's floating around out there, because there was another document attributed to him that's on the internet, but I'm not sure it's legit, was that his mother may have had some health issues as well. That's a possibility, but we don't have any information about that. Could it be that he watched his mother maybe go through something as well and had some issues with that? Oh, 100 percent. I don't think we can really rule out any possibility until him, who's only alleged at this point, comes forward and says this is why.

Right. We're only going off of what we can see, find, hear from people that knew him. And so, look, there could have been individuals in his life, his mother, his father, his grandparents, his siblings who also struggled with health issues. And he watched that and watched them suffer and became really incensed as a result of that. Or it could be a combination, quite frankly, of all of those things, which is what this ultimately may be. There's another interesting piece of this puzzle, Tracy. Apparently, his family owned nursing homes. And there's been some reporting out there that he actually, as a teen, worked in these nursing homes. So that, to me, he could have witnessed things at a younger age as a teen that, you know, nursing homes can be very unhappy places with people who are suffering. 100%. Nursing homes really can be unhappy places. They can also be great places. My own grandmother

was in a wonderful nursing home. Some are excellent at the care they provide. And you're right, some abuse elderly patients. We know this. It's been reported in the past. And so he may have absolutely seen that. Interestingly, though, he has family members who are doctors, which I find interesting. And I wonder how he feels about that, you know, watching them go through medical school, watching them deal with patients. And so I think it would be interesting to see how that shaped him in terms of growing up. But I would imagine that he didn't play much of a role in terms of actually going to those homes and seeing, you know, the day-to-day life if he was pretty young? You know, there was some reporting by ABC News in which they said that Mangione,

according to an assessment by the NYPD that was provided by sources to ABC, said that he appeared to view the targeted killing as a symbolic takedown and a direct challenge to its alleged corruption and power games. And they said that he felt like he was the first person to come face to face with this and really take on the system. That to me seems kind of like he feels he has a very inflated sense of himself, like he's making himself a martyr. And it seems like in some corners of the internet, he's got some support for that view. You're right, Anjanette. I think that in a lot of quarters of the internet, he has support for that. And I took a little heat just because I said someone who is doing something like this, writing this manifesto, to your point, really feels self-important

and really has an inflated ego, in my opinion. He's engaging in what I consider to be vigilante justice. Look, I think we can have two different conversations about the state of our healthcare system in this country. I think we can acknowledge that. But at the same time, this sets a very dangerous precedent, quite frankly, for law enforcement and for leaders of other companies that in order to get the change that you want, you must engage in violence. And that's deeply concerning to me, quite frankly. But to write the manifesto that he did, to do this so brazenly, if you look at the video, he has no gloves on. He went to Starbucks, put his DNA all over these things. He wanted to get caught. And I think that he thinks

he can beat the system as a result of this. So him and honestly, Brian Koberger have two very inflated egos, in my opinion. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because you write a manifesto that you're carrying it around with you in your backpack with a 3D printed gun. This is what they believe it to be. This is all according to police. You write that and take credit for it. The shooting, if you want to be caught and you think you're going to be caught, yeah, you're not turning yourself in, but you are walking around with a mask on that actually

draws attention to yourself because that's the photo that has been put out in the media with your distinctive eyebrows and your very distinctive eyes. And you're caught with the goods. So, yeah, you're not turning yourself in and saying, yeah, I'm the guy. But you are you're getting you kind of almost want to be caught because you're in public. You're at the McDonald's. It's not like you got carry out and left. You sat there. I also think to that point that he was watching the news about himself, because if you notice in the pictures of when that were taken of him at the McDonald's prior to him being taken in for questioning and being arrested, if you notice his beanie that he

has on is actually pulled over his eyebrows. And I think it's because he was observing what the press was saying about him and knew that his eyebrows were sort of becoming almost this identifiable feature, if you will. They're very distinctive. And I think that he was really taking that into account in terms of disguising himself and who he was. So the fact that he was watching the coverage of this also tells me that he was very interested in what people had to say and think about him. Now, there are some people,

there are some theories on the internet, Tracy, that the cops got the wrong guy or that Luigi Mangione is cosplaying as the shooter, like he's acting like he's the shooter. Your thoughts on that? So I've seen those. Some of those have actually come to my open Instagram account as well that I have. I get it.

I get why these theories develop because this is people are searching for the why, how, how did this person, you know, get to this point? And I think as a result of that, we start picking apart. There's almost too much information, right, available online. And now we start picking apart all of that information. And so, yes, if you look at the pictures of him that were taken at the hostel, it's very angular, right, in his face. If you look at his jawline, all of those things. And then you look at his booking photo, right, that's straight on.

We have to take into account different angles, right, of cameras. That is going to make your face read differently. But I think people are picking that apart and saying this isn't him. This is someone else. They have the wrong person. In my opinion, they have the correct person, especially when all of that was found on him. I mean, I've seen things online, Anjanette, that law enforcement planted all of this on this person to make this person the fall guy. No, we don't do that. I've never done that. That's just not something that we do. In my

opinion, this is the exact same person. Yeah. And there is one photo that's pretty interesting that shows the differences between his eyebrows, where it appears he doesn't have hair in between the two brows in one photo and then he does in another. So people have pointed to that as well. So there are a lot of crazy theories flying around out there. Tracy Walder, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me, Anjanette. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.