Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 7 Disturbing Developments in Charlie Kirk's Assassination

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. The man accused of murdering Charlie Kirk now has a lawyer, and he'll be back in court soon as he faces the possibility of the death penalty if convicted. And the investigation is far from over despite the arrest. I look at the biggest developments in the case. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Janette Levy. It's been a little more than two weeks since Charlie Kirk's life was taken by an assassin's bullet. One minute, Kirk was speaking to a big crowd on the campus of Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah. And the next, he was gone. Shot in the neck. His wife Erica said the doctor told her that Charlie Kirk died instantly. At his memorial service last time, weekend, tens of thousands attended, a video showing Kirk and his final moments played. Wow, look at that. Beautiful. And that was just part of that video, and it wasn't long after that

Starting point is 00:01:13 that Kirk's life ended and a manhunt began. There were false starts as far as arrest go. But then a possible shooter was identified through surveillance video. Photos were released and a mother three hours south of Orum in St. George believed she recognized the young man in the photos. She believed it was her son. Robinson's mother explained that over the last year or so, Robinson had become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights oriented. She stated that Robinson began to date his roommate, a biological male who was transitioning genders. This resulted in several discussions with family members, but especially between Robinson and his father, who have very different political

Starting point is 00:02:06 views. In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie Kirk would be holding an event at UVU, which Robinson said was a stupid venue for the event. Robinson accused Kirk of spreading hate. Tyler Robinson's parents and a family friend convinced him to turn himself in, the sheriff of Washington County said there was a negotiation of sorts because Robinson was afraid of being shot, ironically. The manhunt ended after 33 hours. The Utah County prosecutor filed information charging Tyler Robinson with aggravated murder tampering with evidence and witness tampering. County attorney Jeff Gray read the text messages that he said Robinson sent to his roommate, his romantic partner, who was transitioning from male to female.

Starting point is 00:02:58 On September 10th, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson, which said, Drop what you're doing. Look under my keyboard. The roommate looked under the keyboard and found a note that stated, quote, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. Police found a photograph of this note. The following text exchange then took place. After reading the note, the roommate responded, what? You're joking, right? Robinson. I am still okay, my love, but am stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you. Roommate, you weren't the one. who did it, right? Robinson, I am. I am. I'm sorry. Roommate, I thought they caught the person.

Starting point is 00:04:07 Robinson. No, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. Roommate. Why? Robinson. Why did I do it? Roommate. Yeah. Robinson. I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Think you've seen it all. Think again. 50 ways to catch a killer brings you real cases where detectives had to flip the script to take down cold-blooded killers. Hosted by 50 Cent, this isn't your typical crime show. It's a high stake. twist-filled ride into the minds of investigators who think outside the badge to break the case. From unforgettable setups to shocking reveals, every episode proves when killers think they got away

Starting point is 00:05:09 with murder, think again. Watch 50 Ways to Catch a Killer with 50 Cent exclusively on Fox Nation. The county attorney said that rifle was a 30-0-6 and had been given to Robinson by his grandfather. Those text messages continued. Roommate, how long have you been planned? this. Robinson. A bit over a week, I believe. I can get close to it, but there is a squad car parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it. Robinson again, I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle. I-D-E-K, if it's had a serial

Starting point is 00:05:57 number, but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about prints. I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring it with. I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find prints. How the F will I explain losing it to my old man? Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel. Remember how he was engraving bullets? The F, FN messages are mostly a big meme. If I see Notice Bulge UWU on Fox News, I might have a stroke all right. I'm going to have to leave it.

Starting point is 00:06:41 That really effing sucks. Judging from today, I'd say grandpa's gun does just fine IDK. I think that was a $2K dollar scope. Wink, wink. Robinson. Robinson again. Delete this exchange. Again, Robinson. My dad wants photos of the rifle. He says grandpa wants to know who has what. The feds released a photo of the rifle and it is very unique. He's calling me, RN, not answering. Robinson, since Trump got into office, my dad has been pretty diehard MAGA. Robinson, I'm going to turn myself in willingly. One of my neighbors here is a deputy for the sheriff. Again, you are all I worry about love.

Starting point is 00:07:38 That came from Robinson. Roommate, I'm much more worried about you. Robinson, don't talk to the media, please. Don't take any interviews or make any comments. If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer, and stay silent. And we're going to talk a little bit more about those texts later on with Sky Lazaro. There are still many, many questions about what could drive a one-time straight-A student and a college scholarship recipient to want to take a person's life.

Starting point is 00:08:10 An arrest may have been made, but the investigation is still ongoing. It's far from over. The FBI has said that Robinson's roommate is cooperating. Last Sunday, FBI director Cash Patel posted on X that every possibility is being investigated. Patel wrote, as the director of the FBI, I am committed to ensuring the investigation into Charlie Kirk's assassination is thorough and exhaustive, pursuing every lead to its conclusion. The full weight of America's law enforcement agencies are actively following the evidence that has emerged. But our efforts extend beyond initial findings. We are examining every

Starting point is 00:08:49 facet of this assassination. We are meticulously investigating theories and questions. including the location from where the shot was taken, the possibility of accomplices, the text message confession and related conversations, Discord chats, the angle of the shot and bullet impact, how the weapon was transported, hand gestures observed as potential signals near Charlie at the time of his assassination, and visitors to the alleged shooter's residence and the hours and days leading up to September 10th, 2025. Some details are known today while others are still being pursued to ensure every possibility is considered. Our primary focus is to complete this investigation and deliver justice. To protect the integrity of the investigation and subsequent

Starting point is 00:09:39 prosecution, we cannot release every piece of information we have to the public right now. We will ensure every question is addressed at the appropriate moment. Regarding specific details, such as questions about the plane that allegedly turned off its transponder after departing from an airport near the assassination site, we can share updates when answers are confirmed. After interviews with the pilot in consultation with the FAA, we determine the transponder was not turned off. Incomplete flight data in rural areas caused the apparent gap. The entire FBI mourns the loss of Charlie Kirk. We will not rest until justice is served in our investigation into this assassination will continue

Starting point is 00:10:21 until every question is answered. So right there, Patel is saying they're investigating every theory, probably just to run down every lead and every possibility to see what's true and what's not. Patel testified in front of Congress last week and said this about Discord, the messaging platform, whose spokesperson has said that Tyler Robinson didn't plan the crime on the site, but he admitted to the shooting after the fact. Take a listen. Reports have suggested that the FBI is investigating a broader network of groups that may have had some knowledge of the shooter's plans.

Starting point is 00:10:57 Can you give us any details on that following up what you already said in public? How's the FBI working to find other potential accomplices, folks who may have known about the shooter's plans, folks who may have encouraged him, any update on any of that? So in terms of what we do for an interrogation perspective, we go and reach out to the family and community immediately. And we've conducted those investigations and interrogations with local law enforcement, and we're continuing to do that because those closest to the suspect are going to hopefully know the most about the suspect and his beliefs and his ideology. On top of that, unfortunately, it has been leaked that there was a Discord chat. And for those unfamiliar with it, it's a gaming chat room online that the suspect participated in.

Starting point is 00:11:44 So what we're doing, we've already done, is sort of legal process, not just on Discord so that the information we gathered is sustained and held in a evidentiary posture that we could use in prosecution should it be decided to do so. And we're also going to be investigating anyone and everyone involved in that Discord chat. Okay, very good. I see the public reports that the Discord thread had as many as 20 additional users. It sounds like you're trying to run down all of that to see if that's accurate, who else may have been on that thread, what they may have known. Is that fair to say? It's a lot more than that.

Starting point is 00:12:17 We're running them all down. It's a lot more than 20. Yes, sir. And you're running all of that to grab. Every single one. Now, Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's widow and now the CEO of Turning Point USA, the organization that Charlie Kirk founded when he was just 18 years old, spoke at his memorial service about the loss of her husband.

Starting point is 00:12:36 On the afternoon of September 10th, I arrived at a Utah hospital to do the unthinkable, to look directly at my husband's murdered body. I saw the wound that ended his life. I felt everything you would expect to feel. I felt shock. I felt horror. And a level of heartache that I didn't even know existed.

Starting point is 00:13:13 There was a really unbelievable moment at this service where Erica Kirk, who's mourning the loss of her husband, Charlie, and she now has two young children to raise without their father, she offered incredible words of mercy and grace to his alleged assassin. That young man, that young man on the cross, our Savior said, father forgive them for they not know what they do that man that young man i forgive him i forgive him now remember at robinson's initial court appearance he didn't have an attorney but now that's changed the county commission has approved hiring Kathy Nestor to represent Robinson. She has another famous or infamous client, depending on how you look at it in Utah. Nestor and her law partner also represent Corey Richens, the children's book author, accused of murdering her husband Eric, by poisoning him back in March of 2022.

Starting point is 00:14:30 So Kathy Nestor and whichever co-counsel she chooses are now Tyler Robinson's lawyers, and he's due back in court on Monday. So to talk about the very latest, I want to bring in Skynyniz. Sky Lazaro. She is a criminal defense attorney in Utah. So, Sky, I want your thoughts first and foremost on the choice of defense attorney here. You know, they've, they've appointed a public defender. It is Kathy Nestor, and I guess she has co-counsel. She's going to need co-counsel. She will need a lot of help, a mitigation expert. So you are familiar with her. She is part of the team that took over Corey Richens' defense. So tell us about her taking this case. That's correct. Kathy's been

Starting point is 00:15:15 in Utah for a long time. She worked for the federal defender's office doing public defense work for them for a long time. And now she's out in private practice, but has taken the appointment in both the Richens case and in the Robinson case as court-appointed counsel. I believe what happened is the Utah County public defender's office basically said, we don't have the resources to do this. You know, you're going to have to get somebody else appointed on this case and fund it separately from what allotment is given to us already by the county. And so I don't know what that selection process, you know, looked like if they reached out individually to people. I believe that that they were reaching out to people to see who had interest in it or who would take it.

Starting point is 00:16:09 And I believe Kathy agreed. And they'd have to obviously be death qualified. They'd have to be, you know, qualified to handle a case such as this one. And as a former federal defender, I'm sure she is. This is a lot to take on, though. I mean, she's got the Richens case coming up next year. this, of course, unless they say, yeah, we want a speedy trial. I don't see this going to trial early next year. Late next year, probably the very earliest this could happen, if not 2027?

Starting point is 00:16:46 That's correct. So Utah, our statute, requires that people be qualified under Rule 8 to be death penalty counsel. The ABA has standards out there for the way these cases need to be defended. She is definitely going to need co-counsel and mitigation experts in this case. I think this is going to be a very costly and time-consuming case on top of Richens. But, you know, Kathy's done this a long time. And if she, you know, has things set up to have appropriate counsel to help, you know, because she has another practice as well, private practice as well, you know, to help with those cases to afford the time. for the both. I would assume she's, you know, looked at that closely. And the county

Starting point is 00:17:36 doesn't seem to have any issues with that as well. So talk to me about what's going to happen on Monday. Obviously, Tyler Robinson did not have counsel during his first court appearance. Greg's court appeared and said, look, I'm not representing him, but I'm assisting in helping find somebody. So he was kind of a consultant looking to help find. Find counsel for Tyler Robinson, counsel that was qualified that could take this case. Maybe they even took bids. Who knows? I don't know how they did this.

Starting point is 00:18:09 But what's going to happen on Monday when Tyler Robinson appears? This will be his first appearance with his appointed attorney. And so I don't expect a lot to happen in this case. My guess is, or what I would expect to happen is that the court will put on the record that Ms. Nestor has taken on the appointment. She's willing to abide by the standards and the statutory guidelines in defending him. And I think they'll just sort of talk next steps. Do we need to just set another status conference? What's the status of discovery? You know, I don't think we're getting to a preliminary hearing anytime soon in this case, although, you know, he may assert some speedy

Starting point is 00:18:56 trial rights and decide that's how he wants to do it. But I, I, I, think this investigation is ongoing on the on the part of the government as well and so there's going to be additional discovery that continues to come out so my guess is this is really just going to be a status this is you know you get to come to court with your lawyer here's the next steps yeah that's what that's what I would kind of expect because we're so early on in this case and maybe they've turned over some discovery already but still the discovery in this case will be voluminous, and the investigation is really ongoing. I mean, they may have some discovery to hand over right now, but this investigation is far from over the way the FBI director makes

Starting point is 00:19:42 it sound. I would agree with that. In Utah, they have to turn over any information that they relied upon in filing the information. So any discovery that was relied upon in filing the charging document needs to be provided to the defense within, I believe it's 10 days or a very short period of time. But in most major cases or major felony cases, especially this case, discovery is always ongoing. I think there's always things that come in late or things the defense asked to go, ask the state to go get for them, and supplemental discovery requests, things along that nature. So the discovery is going to be voluminous. And one thing that she is going to receive in this discovery are those text messages that the prosecutor says are between Tyler Robinson and his roommate, who was his romantic partner.

Starting point is 00:20:39 And these things read like a confession. It's so, I mean, it's very weird to me, Sky. I don't know. I mean, there's just something about them that don't sit right with me. And I don't know if it's because I just have a hard time believing that a 22-year-old. old texts his significant other and says all this stuff on text. I don't know. There's just something about it. It just seems very strange. The roommate seems shocked. Like, what? That was you on here? And he says, remember when I was engraving bullets? Like, that's just something people

Starting point is 00:21:13 sit around and do. I don't think that's something people sit around and do. What are your thoughts on the text message confession? These texts are different. or weird. I don't know how to characterize them either. There also seemed to be a snapshot. I know, you know, we know that the roommate was cooperating with police and provided these. And so I think what we saw come out through the information is just a small snapshot of these. I agree with you. I don't think the roommate, at least based on these text messages, had no idea that any of this was going to happen. or even after it did happen that it was him until, you know, he said that, yeah, it was me and then reacted with shock. I would hope that through this discovery process, they get a full

Starting point is 00:22:04 download. They're at least probably going to get one of Tyler's phone. And they should get, my guess is they'll go get the full text string between him and the roommate or anybody else he was communicating with about this incident as well, because they seem a little, I don't want to say disjointed, but they don't really make a lot of sense that you just all of a sudden would be, you know, I'm going to go do this and not tell anybody and not tell the people closest to me. And there may be other communications on other platforms as well that maybe they you know, the state wasn't even aware of at the time that they filed charges. So I think we're going to see more come out of that to kind of, at least kind of build the picture of what it really was.

Starting point is 00:23:01 We see text messages and communications used in cases all the time, and it's easy to take a snapshot and make it look maybe worse than it was or better than it was, you know, without getting the full context of a conversation. I mean, but he literally admits to shooting Charlie Kirk. I mean, if those are, if those can be authenticated and those, you know, I mean, there's still, there's still the rules of evidence, you know, if those are authenticated and those come in and you can't keep them out, which I don't think you can keep them out if they can authenticate them, those are really, really damaging text messages.

Starting point is 00:23:42 I don't know how you get past them. It's admission. Yeah, you're right about those text messages because those text messages are definitely disjointed. The ellipses on there, you can see that they're showing, okay, this is one group of text messages. Then we have another group of text messages, then another. It is concerning that the roommate, I guess, you know, and he's 22 years old, but it, you know, the whole thing about, well, there's been a lot made of well he didn't go to the police or the feds they had to find him and interview him but if he's cooperating and they've been saying that the roommate is cooperating

Starting point is 00:24:29 I don't know if I expect really anything to come of this as far as the roommate goes as far as charges go could be just a cooperating witness who was scared and I don't think that they will charge him unless something else comes out or they become aware of more information. The fact that he didn't come forward right away, I don't think that is abnormal in cases. I see that all the time. And in cases where boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, friends, they know what people have done and they don't come forward. Now, as long as they don't lie when police come and interview them and they tell the truth

Starting point is 00:25:12 and cooperate, they're probably not facing obstruction charges. As long as they didn't do something to destroy evidence or somehow impede the investigation, simply not coming forward, I don't think would be grounds to charge someone. Although, I mean, in this case, you know, they may be more aggressive in it. But I would say in most cases,

Starting point is 00:25:36 unless there's something more out there, I don't expect to see charges on the roommate just because we didn't come forward initially they had to go find him. Let's talk about the possibility of federal charges now. That's been discussed. It sounds like the feds really, really, really would like to charge him. But Tyler Robinson, as far as we know, there's no allegation that he crossed state lines. He was from the St. George area. He drives up north to Utah County and allegedly kills Charlie Kirk. There, you know, there's no, I'm trying to see.

Starting point is 00:26:12 the federal part of this comes in, you know, it could have something to do with if they find out that he used an internet platform to communicate with people about this. At this point, they're saying he only said after the fact that he did it on Discord. I'm not seeing anything that could be federal here just yet. I agree with you. And I think that's why we haven't seen a federal indictment come forth either or even just a charging document. they're going to have to find something that's going to trigger federal jurisdiction, some sort of interstate commerce type movement. Now, if they go through his phone and it turns out there was conspiracy or he was paid

Starting point is 00:26:58 by somebody out of state, you know, maybe then you can start to get there with individuals. But based on what we know, I don't see a federal murder charge coming. and I don't think that there's grounds for it based on what they have, or at least what we know in the press right now on this case. I do know that they would probably really like to get him charged somehow. But if the state's going to pursue the death penalty and Utah County has been very active in filing death penalty cases, I think you're just better to let, you know, let the one prosecution run. If you were concerned that the state wasn't actually going to pursue death penalty

Starting point is 00:27:45 or was going to cave on it, maybe then you find a way to charge them federally too. But, you know, at this point, as much as I think they'd like to for political reasons, I agree with you. I just don't, I don't think that they have the facts to support it right now. Right now, I'm not seeing it. But we should just wait and see what comes of it. You never know what they could turn up, I guess. They say it's an ongoing investigation, but right now I don't see it. Sky Lozaro, we'll stay tuned. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you. Tyler Robinson is being held in the Utah County Jail without bail. He'll be back in court on Monday, and law and crime will have that appearance covered for you. So stay tuned. That's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Annette Levy.

Starting point is 00:28:32 Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time. Thank you.

Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 7 Disturbing Developments in Charlie Kirk's Assassination

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