Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 9 Shocking Details from Surviving Idaho Roommates in Crime Scene Bodycam

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

Body camera footage from the first responding officer to arrive at 1122 King Rd. on November 13, 2022 has been released. Officer Mitch Nunes thought he would find an unconscious college student but instead found Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, dead in her bedroom. Nunes also discovered best friends Maddie Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves in Maddie's bedroom. Nunes conducted the first interviews with the surviving roommates.Law&Crime's Angenette Levy breaks down the video and talks with Leander James, the attorney representing Maddie and Ethan's family in a lawsuit against the city regarding images of bedroom crime scenes, in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest:Leander JamesProducer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I heard her crying. I heard some guys say that you're going to be okay. I'm going to help you. And I kept calling your name, but she wasn't answering. Body camera footage from King Road shows what happened the day police responded after four University of Idaho students were found murdered in their home.

There's she at. Yep. Where's she at? Where's she at? I go through the police response and what those surviving roommates told officers about what they saw and heard. I heard her scream and she ran downstairs because she saw someone. That's what I'm pretty sure. She said. She's, someone's here. And she screamed and just ran downstairs. And I called for her name, but I jumped up and locked my door because I was so scared. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anjanet Levy. For the first time, we are seeing what happened when Moscow police officers responded to King Road on November 13th, 2022. It was just around noon.

Surviving roommates, Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen, called 911 because they couldn't reach their roommates, Maddie Mogan, Kili Gonzalez, and Zana Kurnodal. They also couldn't reach Ethan Chapin. We now know why they couldn't reach them. Evil had prepped into their home earlier that morning. And for no reason at all, other than one guy, wanted to dress up and play Ted Bundy, stole the lives of their friends. He's admitted to it now.

He's in prison, and he'll be there for the rest of his life. Dylan and Bethany were young. They were just 19. There has been endless speculation about them on social media and their other friends. It's full of suggestions and conspiracy theories that they were involved in the murder of their friends even with BK's guilty plea.

But you're going to see and hear what they told police, and maybe that will give some people some understanding. The bedrooms in this video are redacted, per a court order. We'll have more on that later. Moscow police officer Mitch Nunez was the first officer to arrive at 1122 King Road. He believes he's responding to a call for an unconscious person. Where's she at? Yep.

Where's she at? Where at? Where at? Up here? Up here, up here. You got a call for the number that someone, you know, for what is normal, and I just came in here and using by this count. And I checked this using the real, which is...

And I didn't check me yet, but... I'm 13... Okay, do that. I don't know if there's something you're not. 1370. 1370. Okay, stay back there, please. Okay, stay back there, please.

Now just slow down. It's a, just come here. There's two. It's like big bodies. Now this officer, Nunez, is just 22 years old. age as the students, he's racing to help on King Road. Nunez was not at all prepared for what he saw. What young cop in a college town would be? These are officers who typically respond to calls for loud parties. And these officers have been to 1122 King Road before for noise

complaints at parties. They'd poured out alcohol because the people in the house were underage. But this was different. Much, much different. Nunez was dispatched to a call for an unconscious woman. Instead, Hunter Johnson, Ethan Chapin's best friend, led him to Zana's bedroom where Ethan and Zana had been attacked and brutally murdered. Hunter had seen

this first and sent Bethany and Dylan out of the house. Dude. Okay, all right. Okay. Okay. Nobody's called me this morning. Okay.

Nobody's glad to leave for now, okay? Just stay here for me, please. Do you know the... Do you know the... a dumpster for me, please. Okay, let's clear it. Now, Nunez has wrapped the area in crime scene tape. Now he and another officer will clear the house to make sure that no one,

especially the killer, is still inside. I'm not sure it's going to be a hundred second. We're told me there. Look up. I just start down here. Police apartment. Moscow police department. You're in here, the house of south.

Moscow police on it. Okay. Clear here. Don up. There you. Please farm it. We're in 34. Oh yeah.

We got another. We got another. Can I go see charlotte. Dude, too. We're clear. We're clear. Let me just secure the outside first. We're going to the front door.

There's a back entry. I was going to start taping it all off. Brian's keeping the outside off. I'm not really slitting. Two right here. shut the down there. Do you guys see what you're going to be going to track with the prince. You heard Nunez sigh.

You have to imagine he just can't believe what he and the other officers have walked into. This would be a shock, even in a big city. Then Nunez goes to talk to the witnesses, the first one he encounters. as Dylan Mortensen. This is one of the three. Pretty much they were in the name of my heart dancing and laughing. Kaylee went upstairs and she screamed

because someone would never miss you ran downstairs. And I kept calling your name and she wouldn't answer and I saw the guy. Oh my god, I just walked the door and I ran out and said we don't know what's going on. Nunez gets a blanket for Dylan and he continues to speak with her.

How much have you seen in that? No, I don't really know. I just saw it. My friend, when I called you because we were so scared, we're like, can you guys go help us? And that's always so on her to stop to go in. That main right there. That helped so you around. Yeah, and that's when you called us.

You need to call the call. Okay. You might just wait over there for me, please. Okay. When, now I ever heard you talk to out last night? Yeah. Okay. You don't have to.

The more we know right now, the better. You can start this process? Somebody will probably be revisiting this interview with you. Yeah. Very soon again, okay? So, you're probably going to have to retell a story about that. That's fine. All right.

What do you remember seeing? What started? I remember I was in my room, and I was trying to go to bed when I heard Kaylee, who ex-girlfriend, who goes to dog in her home. Real fast. Which one was your room? Kaylee. So you're probably going to have to retell a story plan.

That's fine. All right. What do you remember seeing? What started? I remember. Um, I was in my room, and I was trying to go to bed when I heard Kaylee, who, um, ex-girlfriend, who goes on a dog in her. Real fast. Which one is your room? Kaylee.

Which one is your room? Oh, what room are you in? You were in that room? My room, not in this room, my room. And your room is this one right here? Next to the stairs. That one is in this room. Second floor room.

Second floor. Okay. All I heard was, I heard, go upstairs. Like, okay, I'm going to go to sleep now because she's going upstairs. And you heard who go upstairs? Kaley and the dog Murphy. and upstairs to the very top yeah that's where her room is

and then all of a sudden her walking up I heard her scream and she ran downstairs because she saw someone that's what I'm pretty sure she said someone's here and she screamed and just ran downstairs and I called for her name but I jumped up and locked my door because I was so scared

and then I heard and in the bathroom when I heard her crying and I heard some guys say that you're going to be okay, I'm going to help you. And I kept calling her name, but she wasn't answering. And then I opened the door for a second, and I saw this guy, and he was not insanely tall, but he was wearing all black in, like, this mask, which is covering his forehead and his mouth. And then I locked the door, and I called back, and I didn't know what to do. This is at four years, yes. And so I just ran down to the-you left here? I left my room down to the room.

She's that one with the white blinds at the very bottom. I ran down there and we talked and we just we just locked the door. We didn't think anything of it. We're like, nothing happens in Moscow. So we just tried to go to bed. And then we woke up and it was weird because none of our roommates were up and we called all of them. They were not waking up.

And so mean, like, this is weird. So I called and come over and then that's what all this happened. This is Dylan's initial police interview. She would later tell police that she believed the woman crying that she heard was actually Zana. And despite reporting by other outlets that Dylan said she heard the main. and say, it's okay, Kaley. I'm going to help you. Dylan never said that. That was likely a misinterpretation by officers who first arrived on the scene, and it ended up in a CSI's report.

Now, back to Dylan. Remember, she said nothing happens in Moscow. All right, describe the guy that you saw. I don't think he was a little bit taller than me. And I couldn't really see much of him, but I'm almost positive. He was wearing a full black outfit. And he had this mask that was just over his forehead and over his mouth. And he didn't say anything to me at all. I just shut the door and locked it because I didn't know what to do. And I think he went out like the side door, the sliding door in the kitchen that goes up to the backyard.

Okay. And then I didn't know anything else. I called me. And I was like, I just need to come downstairs and find you because I don't know where anyone else is. And I called Maddie. I called Dana. I called Kaylee. No one would answer to it.

Okay. all right for zano do you know how old she is she's 20 is she knows for anyone else yeah uh not anymore Dylan continues to talk with the officer giving him information about her roommates what are their names Maddie M-Mogan M-A-D-I-E-M-O-G-E-E and then Kaylee K-A-Y-L-E-E-E and then Kaylee K-A-Y-L-E Donklaves, G-O-N-C-L-A-V-E-S. I think that's how you spelled up. How old is, Maddie? She's 21.

Or 21 or 22. I can't remember. They're both over 21, but I don't know exactly. I think so. How old is Kaley? Over 21, I believe she's 21 or 22. Sorry, I don't remember. That's okay.

You're doing great. Thanks. I'm asking a lot of you. So I appreciate you. You're doing very well. Do you know if the other two girls are upstairs or not? Right now, what we've got to do is we've got to process this whole thing. I don't know why to be permitted to tell you.

That's fine. That's fine. I understand. Okay, let's go back. I just want to make sure we're getting everything. So you're sure at about four before this morning? Yes, it was four. Four, four things. You first noticed a guy. Well, I first noticed Kay, they go upstairs and scream and run downstairs. So, for this morning, Kay, going upstairs. Yeah.

To the way top. Yes, to our room. With Murphy, the dog. Okay. And then you heard Kaylee scream? I heard her scream and run, like, run as fast as she could downstairs. And she said someone's here. She ran downstairs.

Yes, I can hear, you can hear everything. I'm not sure her to run downstairs really fast. And then I heard Murphy barking a lot. Okay. And then I heard her going to the bathroom, and I remember her sobbing. And I just heard her in this guy's voice and I didn't recognize saying, you're gonna be okay, I'm gonna help you, but it wasn't like, I don't know how to explain it. Like it wasn't in like a nice way, it was like a weird way, like a weird tone.

You're gonna be okay. I'm gonna help you. Yeah. And you didn't hear anything from Kaylee anymore. hear anything from Kaylee anymore. No, I have to have that. I didn't hear anything. So then I kept calling for a name. I called, or my son I called Zana, Maddie, and Katie, none of them answered. So then I opened up the door to look, and that's nice when I saw the guy pass by. He looked at me, but he didn't come towards me or say anything, which was really confusing to me.

I don't understand that, and I'm pretty sure he went out the side door. And then I called and said she thought maybe there was a fire or that. like a firework. We didn't know. She heard this, that noise and there was a light, I guess. And you hear it like a pop, like a bang? I don't know. Did you hear a bang? It's what she heard. Now, Bethany Funk is the one who told police that she heard what she thought was a firework and she saw a flash of light. She was in her first floor bedroom. And at this point, you heard that Dylan was asking whether her roommates were in the house, Maddie and Kaylee. Dylan then explained how she ended up in Bethany's room that morning. Okay

I don't think I ever heard a bang I didn't think anything about fire or firework Or a gunshot I told her I don't think I heard anything of that But I also was kind of in and out of it Because I was so scared and I was really I was retired And that's when I called me

And I told her can I need to come to your room Because she was the only one that was entering me So I just ran down there And for a second I stopped And I saw Zana passed out And I thought maybe she was just sleeping or something I didn't think anything because I was so out of it And I went into a room

We just fell asleep and then we woke up this morning No one was waking up at all Like no one was answering which was really weird Because all of us wake up around like 9 or 10 And then I called I'm not the rock to come check And I came here first And I told him what happened

And then he looked in the room And then he looked in the room and put it out And he called me help us out Okay The guy that you saw It was dark right? Or were the lights on the house? I think there were lights run in the house, really.

Okay. I don't really know what he looked like because he had a mask, but he wasn't, like, super tall. How tall are you? I'm 5'10. I think it was maybe my height and inch or higher or lower. I currently remember. So about six foot? I think so.

Around there. Okay. How was he built? Fat, skinny, stocky. More like skinny, but, like, basketball player kind of skinny, like not too, skinny but like almost fit skinny in a way that's what i think i don't know for sure and then the voice he said uh when he said those words you just didn't recognize that voice before i didn't know i didn't recognize him or his voice i mean i also couldn't see him but i didn't recognize that voice at all

didn't even cross my mind if that could be did you guys have a party last night too or not tonight but there was a and we had like a formal thing beforehand. That was two days ago. Officer Nunez then talks with Bethany, the second surviving roommate. An exchange with Hunter Johnson who came to help Dylan and Bethany

is also in part of this video. Am I still allowed to go home soon? I, we can't hold you forever. So you're cross out originally gets there and the detectives will work you guys to get all the you have the best camera okay so you were here last night what time frame were you here through through now were you here the whole time okay what time did you get here last night um yeah well you did i'm gonna turn off my lights here

I'll be right back. I forgot you were here, man. Do you still want to hang out here? I just want to know what's going on. Yeah. I don't know how much I'm allowed to disclose right now. We're processing what's going on in the scene. As soon as we know for sure, we can tell you guys what's going on,

We absolutely will. I know it sucks to be in the dark with this, but... Okay. And what's your relationship again? Okay. Yeah, man, as soon as I know we're able to fill you in on what's going on, we'll let you know, okay? Like I said, you're welcome to get out. at any point. If you want to hang out in here, you can, because it's warm. If not, you want to hang out with him, you're going to hang out outside too.

Okay. So, anyway, I'll just crack the door. I'll try to not lock it on you. So do you get up water? We can start, yeah, we can see if somebody can bring some of that stuff by. Okay. Okay, sorry about that. All right, so what time were you here last night? About like 1.24 or something in the morning. Today? Yeah. 124 you got here?

Okay, what was going on in about 124? Um, me. I'm a friend watching the vampire. I was on the couch. You are. I'm not me. Just. Okay.

Watching vampire dire. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. You...

And then... And then... She's just one of my friends. Oh, okay, all female? Yes. All-female? Okay, so you guys are watching Vampire Diaries up in this main, the second level? Okay, and then Brown on.

I don't know. And then Maddie and came home from the club. And then we all hung out and came back from the little. So Maddie and Kaylee were at the club? Yeah. Do you know how long they were there? Probably till closing at least? I don't know. They went to drug truck after this. Okay. And then they came home at about what time?

It's okay, you're doing great. It's okay, you're doing great. It's... So they did get home at two? How do you know that? Mom, I just have a picture, too. Okay, then what happened up to me? And then me and Maddie took out Murphy and then...

Murphy's a dog? Yeah, and then I went inside to go to bed and she was still taking from out. And then I was in my bed like about a car seat and Maddie just said that she was Murphy, but I was wondering if he was left me and I just said no. And then I went to that. At what time do you think he's asleep? Um, maybe two, thirty and three. Okay, what time did you hear, did you wake up at all, the turn two?

I heard. I heard something like loud and heard me like bark, like usually like she barks like things. And then I thought I saw like a firecracker, so I thought someone maybe was just drunk and then put a firecracker in the house. But I wasn't even really sure because I was kind of still asleep, so I wasn't sure it was like real. Okay. So I'm sorry, I had listening to a couple things at the time. Um, loud, you thought you saw a firecracker because of a quick flash? Yeah, too like my door, but I was like, just, honestly, so I don't know if it was like, really.

I thought it was maybe maybe true. Okay. And then, that, did you ever, like, pick up your phone to see what time that was, or? Oh, maybe. I might have called me. Bethany then describes how she called her and I'll call her and be like, oh, what was on? She's just Ethan. Bethany then describes how she called her roommates after Dylan called her at 419 that morning. I tried to call Maddie and even Indiana and all down at like 4.20.

She called? I tried to call all about you. Maddie. At what time? And then Yeah, and then even at $4.32. And then Kaylee got $4.31. I thought they were close to me. Okay. Okay. So no answer?

And then did you go to sleep off that? Yeah, I just kind of fell asleep again. Okay. I was, like, half awake. Okay, and then what, turn your day? You got out about what time today? I, like, woke up because my job was going to be really bad. They took to my Advilat, like, six or seven,

and then I just went back to bed. So, like, no one would be up anyways. I'm like, I don't wake up until we called you guys. Okay. at the time this call was generated. Copy, thank you. All right. Do you remember seeing anybody in there?

I didn't leave downstairs the whole time with my door locked, because that's why I always said the day. Okay. While this is going on, Ethan's siblings had arrived and learned that their triplet sibling was dead. The responding officers talk about next steps. Do we want to cut these down to travel? He's not going to? I can do that. All right.

Thanks, Darren. All right. Sounds like your possibility is not. after. Okay. We haven't seen any obvious guy shot laundry. And then what did your lady say about someone coming in? Seen to be coming in? Four. She saw a guy masked about six foot. Skinny built like a basketball player, as she described. Said that he had a just full black mask. See like a ski mask at about four. Immediately. after she yelled and said there's someone in the house this girl ran walked yourself in a room

could hear a roommate that was upstairs caley somehow she's able to discern that it was Kaylee screaming then she could hear this masked man saying sorry she could hear him say you're going to be you're going to be fine I'm going to help you I can just start heading back. Yeah, as far as the Serishmont shows. Good description of the place. Okay. I remember 11.

You get a couple photos and describe anything. Okay. What are you doing? Well, get the shit to town. We've got a quadruple homicide. Yeah. No, I'm 11.22 clean the road. Okay.

Yep. Sounds good. And then I got to grab my phone. You're looking for any shell casings, knives, or just any indicia weapons using? Weapons, signs of force, are tools to break into building. electronic devices etc etc

okay all the main thing is just get the body of it the state this time we was dispatch here on the prosecutor when you get hold of the on-call prosecutor tell them what we got and let them know if we're working on a search warrant and the nature of it

and then we'll go from there they'll have a long list Okay. Do you want to easily think of his name's names? I don't put them at this point. Okay. I'm probably a quick walk through and then go back. Okay. I'll meet you two weeks.

The loss of Maddie, Kaylee, Zana, and Ethan has been indescribable for their parents and their other family members. The pain of losing a child, especially in this way, to murder, is never going to go away. The release of blurred crime scene photos a couple of weeks ago by the city of Moscow upset Maddie's parents and the Chapins. Maddie's mother is seeking a permanent order, asking the city to be barred from releasing any more images of Maddie's bedroom. The Chapins are joining the lawsuit.

There's a temporary restraining order on the release of those images right now. I spoke with the attorney for Maddie's mother, Karen Laramie, about the legal action they are taking. Here's Leander James. Well, I've been the pro bono attorney for Karen and Scott, Mattie's mother and the stepfather for more than two years now and have been sort of navigating them through the case, the criminal case, and their involvement in it and our involvement in working with a prosecutor. And along with that, sort of the arc of recovery, you know, in each of these cases,

there's sort of an arc of recovery for the crime victims. And that relates to what we're going to talk about today, because when we got to the sentencing, phase, you know, both for the M.N. and for the Chapins, the sentencing phase provided some closure. Mr. Peller who was sentenced, the door slammed behind him. He went to prison for the rest of his life. And that gave him a chance to sort of breathe and the ability to move, move on. Now, at the same time, the judge lived to the gag order. that had stopped any information from going out. So here we have the city of Idaho.

And I wouldn't say it's the police that are releasing these photos. It's the city that was releasing them. And they started to release photos without giving us notice. Or prosecutor notice. Prosecutor didn't even know. In fact, I found out when the prosecutor called me to alert me that the city was releasing or getting ready. to release photos.

And at that point, I only represented Karen Scott. Karen asked me, and I was more than willing to do it, to file what's called an injunction along with the temporary standing order to stop the release of these photos. Now, an injunction is asking a judge to stop someone from doing something. They're joined from doing something. If you went in an injunction, the court tells them you can't do that. In this case, you can't give out the images of the death scenes.

The temporary restraining order is a preliminary process where the judge temporarily and immediately stops the person from doing it so that we can look at it closer and decide what the proper decision is on the law for the injunction, which is permanent. So I filed both the injunction and then in the context of the indictment, when in the case of the injunction, I asked the judge for a temporary restraining order, which are rarely granted. Those are very, very, very rare. In fact, the judge has to order that you post a bond in case you lose to pay the other side's attorney's fees. I asked the judge to grant that and to also set the bond at $0, which she did. She granted the temporary restraining order preventing the pictures from being released any further from the city,

including the images, including the body camera images of the first officers on the scene. You can imagine how gory that would be. And even though they were redacted and blurt out in spots, she felt they should not go out under the exception in the FOIA statute, which we can talk about if you like. There's an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy exception. So as it stands right now under the temporary restraining order, the judge, feels it is an invasion of privacy. Is that for everything or just certain items inside the bedrooms of the victims, both Maddie and Zana?

Yeah. Her specific order is that the images of the bedroom of Maddie's bedroom are not to be released. she did not apply it or say that with respect to the other bedroom. However, the city took, I think, a cautious approach that they should and is withholding both bedroom images from being released any further. What I will argue to the judge is that the statute, the city's obligation to apply the statute, including the exception, is an approach. affirmative obligation that applies to all images. Nobody has to come forward and ask them to do this. They're supposed to do it correctly. And this was my disagreement with the city. I tried to resolve it with the

city. I tried to reach a resolution. I did not want to file a lawsuit against the city. But I had to because they disagreed with me and thought these bedroom photos could be released, these death scene photos. The nice way to say it is the bedroom photos, but they're death scenes. And we disagreed on that. That's why I had to file the injunction. I will be asking the judge to apply it. Of course, now that I represent the Chapins, and they will join the lawsuit, they haven't yet, but they will in the coming days become plaintiffs in the lawsuit.

I will ask that it be, it applied to both bedrooms. And I think it should already, because, again, the affirmative duty of the city to follow the statute. So the city's argument is that with redaction, it should be released. And your position is, no, even with redaction, it should not. Correct. Yeah.

They gave me what they called a representative sample of the photos that they're releasing. And they're really three types. There's the images of the outside of the house. Images inside the house of personal areas, including living room, bathroom, dining room, that type of thing, kitchen. And then there's images. of the death scenes in the bedroom. Now, my core objection is to the images of the death scene in the bedrooms.

Now, for my clients and for the parents and the family members, it's distressing to have any of these images out there, right? This whole thing to continue to be perpetuated and the press is distressing. And, you know, and I'll say for myself, the only reason I'm talking to the press and talking to you is because I think it's beneficial to them to get this message out about these photos. that we shouldn't be looking at them, and they want that message to go out. But for the most part, they would like to move on with their lives.

But coming back to the images, you have the outside images, which were really, you know, those are going to be released. You can't really stop that. They're, you know, arguably not objectionable. There's the interior of the house photos, which I find somewhat distressing, and I would rather they not be released, but I recognize under FOIA, and the broad policy in the law to allow for the public to access investigatory records. You know, there's a long, the large body law in that, generally in this free society that we have,

we want the public to be able to scrutinize investigations and have access to this information. But there are these narrow exceptions, and the one here, the unwarranted invasion into personal privacy. And there is a very good case that was authored by Judge Medeima in Boise, a district court judge who gave a really astute history of this exception along with other things. And what the takeaway is from that case is that death scene photos infringed upon, they are releasing them as an unwarranted invasion into the privacy of the family members. That's the bottom line. And that's what I argued to the court. And so the judge agreed with you, at least for the TRO. So you believe this case will support your position for the injunction, which would permanently bar the city from releasing the images of the bedrooms. Correct. Not only will I have now, at the time of the ruling, I had the testimony

of Karen and how distressing it was for her to the thought that any of this is getting out, you know, particularly the scenes, the death scenes. And I guess one of your questions touching this, I want to emphasize, even though they're blurred out and redacted in parts, there's gruesome stuff in there. I saw them. I was given a representative sample, and that in the sample I had, there were these death scene photos that were just gruesome as could be, even though it was sort of blurred. out. It's almost even worse when it's blurred out because you get your mind. And you can

kind of see what's in there in the blurred part. And the non-burnt part is gruesome stuff. So in the end of the day, the judge looked at the same photos and ultimately ruled in our favor. And for the preliminary injunction, we'll see what happened, or a temporary staining order, we'll see what happens with the injunction. But I began to say when I filed it, I had Karen's testimony, now I have Chapins that I'm representing. I have their testimony, including their daughter, Masey, he wanted to be a party to the case. So we will be writing that testimony. And I also have other testimony out there that I'm going to present that will be, I think, strong evidence in favor of protecting these photos. Are you able to share what that is at this time?

Well, I'll just say this much. I expect to have a declaration from someone in your industry, in the media, that will speak to this. And I'll also have my own declaration that will, because I've been told since by certain media, and I'm going to be very discreet about this, but I will say that certain media have told me that it is, in their view, it's improper to show these photos,

even though they had access to them, they wouldn't publish them. And I think that's good evidence that in the industry, even the industry itself, there are at least some who believe this is an unwarranted invasion. The crime scene photos that were released were redacted with blurring, and some media published some of those even with the blurring of the bodies of at least one of the victims. That was very distressing to Maddie's mom and Ethan's family.

There is one major news outlet that published one of the bed or more of the bedroom photos. And I think they've since maybe pulled it off or redacted it. But, you know, the standards get to be what should be released under FOIA. Now, that's on the state. They've got to figure that out, and they've got to get it right. And I tried to help them get it right, and they rejected my input. And so that's why I filed a lawsuit. Now we have the judge who's going to tell us what that standard is.

The second is what you're talking about, that there's a standard in the industry, you know, in media industry. You could say mainstream versus, you know, tabloid or whatever. But there's a mainstream sort of standard out there of what you would produce or what we'd publish and wouldn't. That's a case-by-case basis, but there is sort of a mainstream standard out there. And then you have in each news organization, you have the editors that get together and they have these conversations of what should we produce and what should we publish. And I have literally had a news organization, a couple of them now, apologize and say they got it wrong because they had published. some of these photos. And that's, you know, again, partly why I'm talking to you.

I'm trying to get the word out and I'm imploring people not to look at these if they're out there and to please don't publish them if they're out there. Leander James believes a case out of Boise involving the shooting of a police officer supports his position that the footage should be redacted. The hearing on the injunction is scheduled for next week. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Annette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me.

I'll see you back here next time. time.