Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Accused Gilgo Beach Serial Killer's Lawyer Points To 'Other Suspects' in Murders

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Rex Uriman, I don't believe, is guilty. So certainly there are other people I believe are suspects. The attorney for Rex Uriman, the suspected Gilgo Beach serial killer, had a lot to say after court, nearly two months after his client was charged with murdering two more women for a total of six. I'll take you to Long Island and tell you what happened inside the courtroom and what lawyers on both sides are saying. It's safe to say he would be suspected. Plus, the lawyer for Rex Horman's children is here pushing back against claims by another lawyer

Starting point is 00:00:41 that Horman's daughter was involved in the murders. It would be a substantial judgment, I'm sure, for defamation because his words are defamatory. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Rex Hureman was back in a Suffolk County courtroom today and the hearing had to do with the evidence that the state has turned over to Hureman's attorneys. This is Hureman's first court appearance since June when a grand jury indicted him for the 1993 murder of Sandra Castilla and Jessica Taylor's murder in 2003. Horman was already facing charges for the murders of the Gilgo Four, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Amber Costello, Melissa Barthelome, and Megan Waterman. The bodies of those women had been found wrapped in burlap along Ocean Parkway in 2010 and 2011. Huerman has pleaded not guilty to all of the charges.

Starting point is 00:01:30 Outside of court, Huerman's wife, Asa Ellerup, showed up with her lawyer and a service dog. Ellerup walked outside with that dog for a bit before entering the courthouse with the dog, which captured the attention of photographers covering the hearing. Ellerup actually filed for divorce last summer after Hureman was charged. Her lawyer said that she filed for divorce to protect herself, and he said that she's waiting to see the evidence. Ellerup and her two children, Victoria Hureman and Christopher Sheridan, are filming a documentary with a reported seven-figure payday. We'll hear from their lawyer in just a bit. But first, Hureman's lawyer, Michael Brown, talked about a number of things after court, including the two new murder charges his client faces. Take a listen.

Starting point is 00:02:16 The Castillo murder is, I've read the grand jury minutes, and the only evidence that I've seen is allegedly one hair. One hair that ties my client allegedly to that murder. But listen, the basis of all of these cases, the bulk of their evidence, the strongest piece of evidence that they claim they have is a hair, a hair on each body. Now, Brown talked about how he might actually challenge the DNA analysis of those hairs based on testimony of analysts from the Suffolk County Crime Lab at the grand jury. And they said that those hairs were unsuitable for nuclear DNA testing. Those were their words in the grand jury. I'm not making this up. I promise you that's what they said in the grand jury. So we came out of that court a year ago and we started looking at the evidence and we reiterated that it is unsuitable for nuclear DNA and the mitochondrial

Starting point is 00:03:18 DNA. And then we started talking about the ratios and the population. There are thousands and thousands of people just on Long Island that potentially could be donors for those hairs. And I stood in front of all of you, maybe it was August of last year, maybe it was September, and I said this. And within months of me saying this, now all of a sudden, magically, we have a company in California that says, no, we're able to do nuclear DNA testing. And here are the results. And Rex Heuermann is one out of a zillion trillion quad million. I don't know what numbers they use.

Starting point is 00:03:56 And he's the guy that that DNA belongs to. Now, to be clear, the DA's office claims that one hair found on Sandra Castillo actually came from an ex-girlfriend of Rex Hureman's who had moved out of his home prior to the murder. Brown didn't mention that in his press conference. Brown also said that they are considering asking for a change of venue, but he's not committing to that just yet. Last month, the DA revealed that they recovered documents from one of Hureman's 350 electronic devices seized from his home in the spring. One document has categories labeled Problems, Supplies, DS, and TRG. Investigators believe DS means dump sites and TRG means target. problems, a number of items are listed, including DNA, tire marks, bloodstains, fingerprints,

Starting point is 00:04:46 witnesses, trace sources of supplies, shoe prints, police stops, and the list goes on. The supply list also sounds like things that could be used to torture a person or possibly clean up a crime scene or keep clean. The DA also believes Huerman studied the book Mindhunter by FBI profiler John Douglas, who studied serial killers. Here's Brown's response to that. The two pages that basically mimic the Mindhunter book. I've seen it. Yes. What is it?

Starting point is 00:05:18 It's Mindhunter. It's a book that allegedly is downloaded on his computer. I mean, there's probably hundreds of thousands of people across our country who have, if not millions, who have read that book, interested in that book, and download portions of that book onto their computer. I know the district attorney made a big deal about it. I don't think it's that significant. Brown is also pointing to possible other suspects, including somebody named W.H. That is significant because W.H. are the initials on a belt used to bind Maureen Brainerd Barnes. We talked about W.H., right? I know we've talked about that in the past, and I had good knowledge that the former D.A. in this county was prepared to move forward with an arrest of this suspect, W.H.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Now, W.H. is so significant because that's the belt. But yet, it's my client's grandmother's uncle's neighbor, and therefore it's tied to my client. But you had a W.H. who they were attributing that belt to. You folks haven't seen Discovery, unfortunately. The sole reason, in WH there were probably 30 strong points of evidence at WH. The sole reason that they decided not to charge WH is because there's an overlap in phone calls. WH's personal phone and this burner phone. So because people can't have two phones on at the same time,

Starting point is 00:06:52 WH has been eliminated as a suspect. That doesn't make any sense to me. But what happens is you take your narrative and every piece of evidence and that's what you go with and that's the case that we have here. For his part, Suffolk County DA go with, and that's the case that we have here. For his part, Suffolk County DA Ray Tierney is standing by the allegation in court documents that Rex Heurman committed the murders. He's also keeping to his word to move forward with the investigation into all of the bodies found on Gilgo Beach and in Manorville. We've said right from the very beginning that we were going to expand the investigation of the original Gilgo 4 off of the beach. I think the last indictment has illustrated

Starting point is 00:07:30 that. So that work continues, but as well as the arduous work of preparing this case for trial. Tierney says the task force has received 7,000 tips. One point that Tierney and Michael Brown can actually agree on, there's a massive amount of evidence to go through in this case. We have six murders, which are alleged to have been committed by this defendant. We need to prove that. We look forward to doing that. So all of the underlying casework for all each of those murders. One murder occurred in 1993, 2003, 2007, 2009, and 2002, 2010. So all those individual caseworks. And you have missing persons files, which we have to provide. And then you have tips, which you have to provide. You have phone work,

Starting point is 00:08:19 you have lab work, you have electronic devices. You have to provide all of the work from that, not only the work, the underlying data when you're talking about scientific forensic evidence, electronic evidence. So you have to provide all of that. I want to take a second to tell you about a great app I've been using that gives you cash back on things like gas and food. It's called Upside. It's not a confusing rewards or points system. Upside gives you real money back that can go straight into your bank account. When I pump gas or order takeout,

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Starting point is 00:09:10 Upside works at many popular stores. To find out how much you could earn, click the link in the description or scan the QR code on your screen and use the promo code CRIMEFIX to get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas. Tierney also confirmed that Huerman is a suspect in the murder of Valerie Mack, who went missing in the year 2000. Her remains were found in Manorville and along Ocean Parkway. Some of those remains were recovered in 2011. Now you might be wondering what Huerman's family, particularly his children, Christopher Sheridan and Victoria Huerman,

Starting point is 00:09:45 think about their father being charged with murdering six women. Ves Mitev represents the children of Rex Huerman. Ves, thanks so much for coming on. I want to ask you, first of all, how are Victoria Huerman and her brother doing? Thank you for the invite. Certainly nothing's really changed. As we've said all along, they're constantly living in a state of evolving or devolving chaos, depending on which day of the week it is. So they're more or less the same. I mean, just because they've gotten used to traversing this uncharted waters for the last year and a half doesn't mean it's gotten any easier at all. And it's just getting used to something. And I think their behavior and their conduct so far is a testament to the resilience of their character. Because as I've said all along, I think certainly most of us would have crumbled long ago under the searing light of the microscope of the media and of all the flotsam and jetsam that they've had to

Starting point is 00:10:43 endure as being unwilling participants in, macabre horror show. It definitely is a macabre horror show. And the last court appearance kind of showed us that when there was some new information revealed in the court documents regarding the allegations being made against Rex Horman. He is now charged with murdering a total of six women going back to the 1990s. And there were some documents found on his computer, according to the Suffolk County DA, that showed a lot of really terrible, sadistic things. How are the kids dealing with that? I mean, I know they're adults now, but they were still the children of Rex Hureman. So how are they grappling with this? Well, I think that for whatever it's worth,

Starting point is 00:11:29 the DA has at every turn gone out of its way to state unequivocally and repeatedly that the children had nothing to do with any of the alleged acts, which are only allegations. And we've stressed that before. Now, Mr. Hureman has extraordinarily capable defense counsel whose job it will be to make sure that those allegations do not amount to a conviction.

Starting point is 00:11:51 That's his job. In the court of public opinion, though, my clients obviously have been the targets of some vicious and we contend defamatory attacks by sideshows and people willing to wanting to get into the spotlight by making allegations that have nothing to do with the truth, such as that they were in any way involved in any of these acts you know, vile attempts at, you know, basically character assassinations, you know, which have no place in any sort of proceeding, but much, much less this one, especially when the only investigating authority has repeatedly said that they are not suspects, they were never suspects, they were always outside of the jurisdiction, or in some cases, not even born yet, or in some cases not even born yet or in other cases mere children. So the fact that they've been brought in by, you know, basically carnival barkers and people wanting to capitalize on the media scrutiny of this case is unfortunate. But again, I go back to what I say. as they've gotten, you know, they couldn't possibly have tougher skin because it's this precise type of ill-gotten attention and infamy that they have not sought but has been heaped upon them

Starting point is 00:13:13 by all of the hangers-on in this case. That's made it worse for them, of course, because it's just dim. You know, it's how can they separate the court of public opinion, which has already tried, convicted, and all but hanged Mr. Heerman with the fact that there's never been a single actual conviction in this case stretching back to 1993. And I think we need to be clear about that. Rex Heerman is, of course, innocent until proven guilty. He enjoys the presumption of innocence, as any defendant does in this country. But there's been a lot of information contained in these court documents from DNA evidence to documents regarding potential planning and other. I mean, it's really kind of vile, really upsetting

Starting point is 00:13:59 stuff. I mean, this is their father. This is their father that they're reading this stuff about. I mean, are they still standing by him or how are they viewing their father at this point in time? looks like because none of us has ever experienced it and for them you know this case is far from over so it's not as if they're looking back on it with the benefit of hindsight and going well now i can process these feelings and this is what i felt at this point and now it'll make sense it doesn't because they're in the midst of it and as i've said before i mean i think if you know if if our minds as humans were capable of realizing the you know how adrift we are you know and just a constant state of chaos just in our everyday lives i realizing the, you know, how adrift we are, you know, and just a constant state of chaos, just in our everyday lives, I think we would, you know, we would all be in a much worse place. But for these adults, young adults, you know, who are constantly, again,

Starting point is 00:14:55 waking up and wondering, is today going to be the day that we're going to get raided again? Is today going to be the day someone else makes a crazy defamatory allegation about one of us? Is today the day that we're going to be facing media reporters again because of some unsubstantiated claims that someone's spread around on the Internet. The answer is they don't know how they're feeling because they have no closure. They have no hope of closure. And no matter what happens, even if he's acquitted on every count, convicted on every count or something in between, their lives will never be back to normal. And when we've said as much, you know, Ms. Heuermann, Victoria is, you know, she worked for her father.

Starting point is 00:15:31 At this stage, she cannot possibly find gainful employment because of the infamy that she didn't ask for. You know, Chris, you know, God bless him. I mean, he's all he wants to do is walk the family dog, Stewie, and be left in peace to do that. And he's having a hard time doing that because every time he comes home, his very small house is ransacked. So, you know, there's no ability to process where they stand vis-a-vis their father because it's ever changing. I want to go back to the things that you say have been said about Victoria in particular and Asa,

Starting point is 00:16:07 but you represent Victoria and Christopher. John Ray, who I know you know, is the attorney for Shannon Gilbert's family, and he has held a couple of press conferences and he has made some pretty serious allegations. And when you say defamatory comments I I assume you are discussing what John Ray has said I mean he's implied that Victoria Hureman may have been involved in some of these alleged killings I mean the killings happen but they he's alleged he's skirted up there and basically said he thinks that Victoria Hureman may have been involved because you know her DNA or her hair may have been found on one of the victims bodies and things of that nature and then there was this talk about this artwork that she may or may not have looked at or liked or something on the

Starting point is 00:16:55 internet um you know as you mentioned she was a child when some of these things happened and not even born yet when others other homicides took place sir are you are you anticipating taking some legal action on her behalf regarding some of these claims well we our statute of limitations to do that has not yet passed it's a year and every time a new defamatory and reckless comment is made we just add it to the tab uh and he's not only skirted it but he's gotten way above and beyond that and the people that hang around with him and you know pass themselves off as internet sleuths and and you know harbingers of righteousness they all they've all said these things that we've

Starting point is 00:17:35 taken very careful note of and you know we've we've um discussed whether or not that's going to be something that's that's going to be um you know a plan of action that we might take as i said this before i mean they're they're flat out defamatory per se they're they're reckless they're laughable if they weren't so ridiculous but unfortunately when you say such um horrific things and he's as i said he's actually called them criminal conspirators um he said that he said that they've had, you know, involvement in, you know, demonic acts of cannibalism. I mean, it's it's the easiest lawsuit, if it were ever to be filed for defamation. It's the easiest verdict that I would ever take. And I've taken several verdicts for defamation in New York State, and not a lot of lawyers can say that. So the only thing stopping us is we don't believe that he has sufficient assets to cover any verdict that we would assuredly take.

Starting point is 00:18:31 So that's, you know, why do it? If in the end, you're going to get a judgment that can be satisfied, that's number one. Number two, it's plain that he wishes to be found himself in a position as a defendant in a lawsuit to attempt to, you know, obtain some discovery or again, you know, maintain his stranglehold on the spotlight by dint of being a defendant, because then he would be entitled to certain, you know, litigation access, such as a deposition, such as interrogatories, et cetera. And I'm not sure that I don't want to put my clients through that at this point, because again, it would be a Pyrrhic victory. It would be a substantial judgment, I'm sure, for defamation because his words are defamatory. And the words of the people, his coterie of myrmidons, same thing, all of them. As I said, we've taken a good note. We have a year to file a defamation claim in the state of New

Starting point is 00:19:22 York. And every time they say something new, that that year restarts so right now we're monitoring it but uh you know it's it's i wouldn't even you know bother to address such you know indignities because they're not worthy of a response but unfortunately he's he's made them that because the media keeps asking about them so if victoria huerman were sitting here right now what do you think she would say to me and everybody watching about this? I mean, I know she's they've got kind of a documentary deal going on, but if she could, if she were so inclined to sit here and speak with us, I mean, what do you think she would say to the public regarding all of this and regarding the allegations that her father

Starting point is 00:20:06 took the lives of six women? It's a great question. No one's ever phrased it that way. So my hat is off to you, both as a former journalist and as a longtime attorney. But nonetheless, despite what a valiant question it is, the answer answer is all I can tell you is she would, through me, she would say that they never wanted any of this. They never wanted any of the spotlight. They never wanted the documentary deal as much as people have said that they wanted it. It was an unwanted by-product of a horrific circumstance

Starting point is 00:20:39 that they find themselves in. And I would suspect that she would say what I would say or what you would say if we had the words to muster to define something that is indefinable, which is, you know, please just let us be because we're processing and we're trying our best. And, you know, it falls off people's radar from day to day and week to week, but they have to wake up in this reality, you know, and they have to open their eyes and let the program reload and sit there and go, okay, today's another day that I have to spend as the child of, you know, an infamous alleged murderer. And that is a burden and a yoke that I, again, I don't think I can bear it. I speak for myself. I think it would, it would have crushed

Starting point is 00:21:20 much, much, much more resilient people than Victoria and Chris. And the fact that they've maintained it step by step for a year and some months going on now, again, is just a testament to their unbreakable spirit. Are they still in communication with their father? Well, as I said, you know, all I can say is that they certainly are kept abreast of the developments. And as we've said before, it's no secret. You know, they do plan on attending and participating throughout the process, however long that takes, in whatever form or fashion that takes. And that doesn't mean

Starting point is 00:21:55 going to every court appearance, of course, but there's no indication that this case is going to get wrapped up anytime soon. So they're here for the marathon marathon it's a grim one it's not a sprint they know that and we'll be with them every step of the way yeah but i mean you said they're processing it they're participating in the process um but do they stand by their father are they are they still just kind of waiting to see the evidence as it's presented in court because we all we've seen are allegations in an affidavit or a bail application. We haven't seen the actual evidence presented in court. Yes, they're waiting to see the evidence. Evidence, evidence, evidence, always the evidence. And you have to consider the source, not just the evidence, but the source. So they're waiting to see both of those things,

Starting point is 00:22:39 as is the rest of the public. And as I'm sure Mr. Heuermann's attorneys were faced with the Herculean task, obviously, of ferreting out through that evidence what is and what isn't. Thank you, Vess. Of course, my pleasure. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Accused Gilgo Beach Serial Killer's Lawyer Points To 'Other Suspects' in Murders

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Accused Gilgo Beach Serial Killer's Lawyer Points To 'Other Suspects' in Murders

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