Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - American Teen Threw Newborn Baby Out Paris Hotel Window: Police

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. An American teenager under investigation in Paris for giving birth in a hotel room and throwing her newborn baby out of the window. I have the disturbing details from the City of Lights and where Mia McQuillan is now. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. When you think of Paris, you probably think about the Eiffel Tower, the Seine, or maybe even the Louvre. You certainly don't think about tragedy.

Starting point is 00:00:45 But an American teenager, 18-year-old Mia McQuillan, is in custody in Paris, accused of giving birth and then throwing her newborn out of a hotel room window. This happened a week ago at the Ibis Stiles Hotel in Paris. Witnesses described a horrific scene. The Mirror quoted an anonymous hotel employee as saying, it was still early this Monday morning, around 6 a.m. This little piece of Paris woke up in the middle of a nightmare. I get chills just thinking about it. The employee continued, it's awful. She had to give birth in the room. She wrapped the baby in a towel and threw him out of the window. He was still alive when he left with the emergency services, but he is dead. We wonder what happened. It must be a denial of pregnancy. The baby was rushed to the Necker, the children's hospital in Paris, where sadly,

Starting point is 00:01:37 that baby could not be saved. The teen has been identified as Mia McQuillan. She's 18 years old and grew up in Oregon, according to several media reports. McQuillan. She's 18 years old and grew up in Oregon, according to several media reports. McQuillan was on a gap year, meaning she was taking a year off between college and high school. She was traveling with EF Gap Year, an organization that offers programs for people between the ages of 18 and 22. The company's website reads, designed for students eager to explore the world beyond the classroom, our GAP semesters offer a dynamic adventure filled with guided exploration and cultural immersion. Travel to multiple destinations, immerse yourself in diverse cultures, and engage in hands-on experiences that foster personal growth and discovery. I reached out to EF Gap Year for comment.

Starting point is 00:02:27 The organization provided me with the following statement. We are deeply shocked and saddened by this tragic event, and our thoughts are with everyone affected during this difficult time. We are fully cooperating with local authorities as they continue their investigation. Counseling support has been offered to all group members, and we are extending our support to the impacted families. Meanwhile, Mia McQuillan is charged with child homicide in France, according to the Daily Mail. She had been placed in a psychiatric unit after being taken into police custody. The prosecutor's office telling the Daily Mail

Starting point is 00:03:01 denial of pregnancy was possible in this case. Dr. Daniel Bober is a forensic psychiatrist who deals a lot with teenagers. So, Dr. Bober, this is an incredibly concerning case. Talk to me about your first reaction upon hearing that Mia McQuillan, she's overseas from the United States, hanging out in Paris for a gap year, and she's accused of giving birth in secret and then tossing this newborn baby out of a hotel window. So this is actually pretty rare, but I have seen cases like this before. This is what is referred to denial of pregnancy. And although denial of pregnancy is not itself classified as a distinct psychiatric

Starting point is 00:03:45 diagnosis, it is essentially the lack of acknowledgement or recognition of pregnancy despite obvious physical signs and this can occur for a number of reasons. People who are subject to this happening often have a history of trauma, they may have sexual abuse, a history of domestic violence, often it can occur in people in this age group during their first pregnancy. But there are many psychological reasons that this can occur. So really, that was my first thought. It's extremely rare, and it's even more rare to be really shocking because I've covered some cases before, unfortunately, where teenagers end up accused of crimes because they gave birth in secret or maybe not in secret, but they gave birth and then the baby is dead. And there have been a couple of cases I've covered. One out of Ohio where a teenage girl, Skylar Richardson, ended up being acquitted of murdering her baby. They couldn't determine the cause of death. She said the baby was stillborn. There was another that's still in progress in New Mexico where a girl gave birth in an actual hospital and then they found the baby in a trash can in the bathroom.

Starting point is 00:05:09 That's a case that's ongoing. So, you know, it's interesting that we have these cases where this has indeed happened. How do you, I mean, denial, let's talk about denial first off, right off the bat. Denial of pregnancy denial is really a coping mechanism right i mean it's it's how your brain kind of deals with something that you're not really willing or emotionally able to confront that's exactly correct denial is the mind's way of protecting itself from overwhelming stress very often induced by trauma. And in a lot of these cases, we will see what we

Starting point is 00:05:51 call dissociation, which is this disconnection from reality. It's the mind's way of protecting itself from overwhelming thoughts and emotions. It's essentially a defense mechanism. And it's very powerful. People will look and say, but how could she not know? She knew exactly what she was doing. But very often, these are not cases of premeditated murder. These are cases of people that are extremely troubled. They're overwhelmed. There's this cognitive dissonance where they have these two ambivalent feelings. On the one hand, they know they're pregnant. But on the other hand, they can't handle it. So it must not be true. So the mind is very powerful here. The world can be incredibly unpredictable and very scary. So having a great lawyer really

Starting point is 00:06:34 matters. And that's where Morgan & Morgan comes in. The firm has more than a thousand lawyers because they win a lot. In the last few months, Morgan & Morgan has secured some big verdicts, like a $29 million verdict for a cyclist in Philadelphia, $2.7 million for a car accident victim in Florida, not to mention a $5.6 million verdict for a car crash victim in Georgia after the insurance company offered their client nothing. Even if you think your case isn't worth millions, why not start a claim and fight for what you deserve? Morgan & Morgan makes it easy. You can start a claim from your cell phone in just eight clicks. So if you're ever hurt, start a claim at forthepeople.com slash crime fix, or click the link in the description or pinned in the comments.

Starting point is 00:07:20 She was on a gap year. So we don't know why she was on that gap year. I mean, really, we only have kind of surface level detail right now. There's so much about this case. We really, really don't know at this point. We know about the allegation that she gives birth in a hotel room, with the baby's umbilical cord still attached from what the reporting is from news outlets in Europe, wraps the baby in a sheet and then throws the baby out of the window. I mean, it's absolutely horrifying what happened here, what is alleged to have happened. They try to save the baby. They take the baby to the hospital. The baby cannot be saved. If she's in pregnancy denial, you have to assume she had no prenatal care whatsoever. So we don't know. We don't know if the baby was possibly dead before the baby was thrown out of the window. That's always a possibility. But I mean, just that act, of the window that's always a possibility but i mean just that act i mean that's that's a pretty brazen act in and of itself so how do you explain that where as a forensic psychiatrist just that act of of tossing the baby out i mean

Starting point is 00:08:39 we're not talking about placing it somewhere this is a pretty violent act it's true you know and it's funny because the case I was thinking of that I was involved and actually resulted in an acquittal and we know from actually what you said also that that is a risk factor the lack of prenatal care a lack of social support isolation you then you have an 18 year old right someone who is impulsive who may not think through the future consequences of her actions, who is engaging in essentially this sort of magical thinking. This can't be true. If I just make this go away, if I literally talk side, then it's not something I'll have to deal with. So again, I don't think this is a cold,

Starting point is 00:09:20 vicious, premeditated murder. I think this is someone who is just completely overwhelmed and couldn't cope. From the reporting from the outlets overseas, it sounds like she was taken into custody. Mia McQuillan was. She was taken into custody by the police. There's an investigation launched. And then they put her into psychiatric, like a psychiatric ward within their law enforcement system because they're like, this is just not right. This is not, you know, this is psychiatrically and psychologically something that's very, very concerning. So they need to look into it. So we don't know where she is now. We don't know if she's still in that psychiatric ward or whatever. But they are prosecuting her for child homicide. So, I mean, this case is going to move forward

Starting point is 00:10:14 in whatever way it will through the courts in Paris. So, I mean, I guess I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the fact that you can deny and be in denial about being pregnant, but then take an action that seems so violent in tossing a baby out of a window and having it land 30 feet below. It's almost like you're throwing the baby out like it's trash. But that seems like a very, very violent way to do it. Is there something more going on here? I agree. But this is probably someone who could not cope with the fact that they were pregnant. So they felt no emotional connection or attachment to the baby. And they were able to do that. And again, there's really no aspect of this case that's not completely horrifying, especially when you look at someone who throws a baby essentially away.

Starting point is 00:11:09 But I think that they're going to have to probably line up some experts. I don't I'm not familiar with the justice system and how it works in France. Sure. But I'm sure there will be someone, you know, in my field who will testify to the psychiatric or the psychological aspects of this? You know, it's interesting to me that she was pregnant. And then, and this is all speculation at this point, of course, because again, there's so much we don't know about this case, but that she's pregnant. And maybe she, even if she's in denial, she's still aware that she's pregnant and takes a gap year. So she would have been in maybe the middle of this gap year. Granted, we don't know exactly where she was falling in that because they do it by semesters. She could have been starting a new semester in

Starting point is 00:12:00 the middle of a new semester, or she could have been on the two-semester program. I was doing some reading about how it operates with this program, EF gap year. But I mean, she's in the middle of a gap year. So it kind of makes you wonder, could you be kind of in denial about being pregnant, but then maybe know that you're pregnant and you decide to take a gap year because you're trying to maybe possibly hide this from your family. Or hide it from yourself. There may be psychological or cultural factors. Maybe she came from an extremely religious family where this was something that wasn't accepted. She was living probably in secrecy from her family and maybe even from herself. So I think that on some

Starting point is 00:12:46 level, you can intellectually acknowledge that you are pregnant, but emotionally, you go to a different place in your mind. And that's that dissociation we talk about, that disconnection from your thoughts and your emotions. And I think that's going to be very hard for some people to understand. But the mind is a very powerful thing. You know, this happens every day in our lives, right? We see what we want to see. I see patients all the time who are involved in terrible, abusive relationships, but they stay, right? Because they see what they want to see. And so I think this is an extreme example of that. You know, this is somebody who could end up doing some major time overseas in a prison over there. But we don't know. Again, I mean, they will conduct an autopsy on the baby to determine the baby's exact cause of death.

Starting point is 00:13:38 We don't know if the baby was possibly born alive or stillborn. If the baby were born alive and killed after it was born, gosh, that's just unthinkable. She is charged with child homicide. So maybe the autopsy is complete. They've determined potentially that she did indeed kill the baby after the baby was born rather than the baby being stillborn and then being thrown out of the hotel window. So what does that tell you then if indeed she did kill the baby after she gave birth and then toss the baby out of the window rather than a stillborn baby being thrown out of a hotel window well i think if the baby was already passed before the baby was born i think the justice system will probably take a different approach but maybe some of the other things they're going to look at are

Starting point is 00:14:37 her social media any electronic communications text messages emails communications that she had with other people leading up to this because that might be a window into her state of mind before this happened. So that may be important as well. In the case you were involved in, you said it ended in an acquittal. Tell me a little bit more about that case. So in that particular case, this individual was diagnosed with a dissociative disorder. Exactly what I said, a disconnection from reality. And there was a plea offer, I believe, on the table, which

Starting point is 00:15:11 she did not take, her lawyer did not take it. And they went to a jury and the jury acquitted her. So again, I think the jury was able to absorb the fact that there was a psychiatric diagnosis or at least a psychiatric illness or phenomena that could account for all this type of behavior. Is this, you know, you said it's incredibly rare, but this is now at least the third case and now fourth, if I include the case you're talking about, your case that you were involved in. The fourth case in at least six years that I'm familiar with, where a teenager has hidden a pregnancy and then given birth and then been accused of killing the baby. Is this more common than maybe we realize? Actually, this is the sixth one I think that I've heard of

Starting point is 00:16:07 where we have teenagers who maybe they are in denial or they are just so incredibly scared and can't handle the reality of possibly going to their parents or revealing this and having to make the choice about maybe putting the baby up for adoption or making some other type of choice about terminating the pregnancy. Is this more common than we realize, possibly? Well, I think teens being afraid of how their parents are going to react to them being pregnant, I think that's a very common phenomenon when it happens. But I think this is still pretty rare. I think it's a little bit of a skewed perception in the public because think about it, you know, we're worried about plane crashes. We think that when we get in a plane, we're going to crash, but think about the thousands of flights

Starting point is 00:16:52 every day that arrive without a problem. So I think our perception is a little bit skewed because the cases are so horrific and they do receive so much media attention that we tend to think they happen more often than they do. But obviously, you know, when they do receive so much media attention that we tend to think they happen more often than they do. But obviously, you know, when they do happen, it's very disturbing. Yeah, it's incredibly, incredibly disturbing. Well, we will keep an eye on it and see where this case ends up and where it goes as it moves its way through the courts in Paris. Dr. Daniel Bober, thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:17:24 Appreciate your time as always. Thank you. My pleasure. Now, just to recap, Mia McQuillan is in custody in Paris, accused of child homicide. Authorities say she gave birth in her hotel room at the Ibis Stiles Hotel in Paris a week ago and threw the newborn out of the window 30 feet below to the sidewalk. And that baby apparently still had his umbilical cord attached. The Mirror quoted an anonymous hotel employee as saying, it was still early this Monday morning around 6 a.m. when this little piece of Paris woke up in the middle of a nightmare. I get chills just thinking about it. That employee

Starting point is 00:18:03 continued to the Mirror. It's awful. She had to give birth in the room. She wrapped the baby in a towel and threw him out of the window. He was still alive when he left with the emergency services, but he is dead. We wonder what happened. It must be a denial of pregnancy. Now that baby, as I mentioned earlier, was rushed to the Necker, the children's hospital in Paris, where sadly the baby could not be saved. He was believed to still be alive when he was taken to the hospital. The teen was identified as Mia McQuillan, 18 years old, who grew up in Oregon, according to the media reports. And McQuillan was on a gap year, taking that year off between college and high school. She was traveling with EF Gap Year that provides those programs for people

Starting point is 00:18:45 who are between the ages of 18 and 22. Mia McQuillan's case is being investigated for denial of pregnancy. The National Institute of Health states about this phenomenon. It is difficult to predict which women will develop denial of pregnancy. There are a number of forms of denial of pregnancy, including psychotic and non-psychotic variants. Denial of pregnancy is a red flag that should trigger referral for psychiatric assessment. A national registry may help to provide more information about this condition and implement appropriate care. This condition poses challenging legal and ethical issues, including assessment of maternal

Starting point is 00:19:25 capacity, evaluation of maternal and possibly fetal best interests, and the possibility of detention in hospital. The NIH continues, denial of pregnancy is an important condition, which is associated with suboptimal outcomes for both mother and child. Of prime importance is the association of this condition with neonaticide. Indeed, pregnancy denial has recently received media coverage following a series of French cases

Starting point is 00:19:53 of neonatal killing, meaning the killing of infants. So we'll keep an eye on this case as it continues to develop and we'll keep an eye on any developments as they come out of Paris and bring them to you. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me.

Starting point is 00:20:09 I'll see you back here next time.

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - American Teen Threw Newborn Baby Out Paris Hotel Window: Police

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