Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger Alibi Revealed: 3 Surprising Details

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Brian Koberger out stargazing and driving the night four University of Idaho students were murdered. That's part of the alibi he's offering to the court. I have three surprising details of what he's claiming and what it could mean for his defense. Thanks for joining me for Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. We've known for a while now that Brian Koberger claimed he was out driving the night the four students were murdered in that house on King Road. But now we have a little more detail about where Brian Koberger claimed he went

Starting point is 00:00:41 and why. Koberger maintains he didn't murder Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Kernodle on November 13th, 2022, so he says he certainly wasn't at that house. Instead, his lawyers write, Mr. Koberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13th, 2022, as he often did, to hike and run and or see the moon and stars. He drove throughout the area south of Pullman, Washington, west of Moscow, Idaho, including Hawaii Park. In Idaho, if a defendant is going to claim they have an alibi, they have to tell the prosecutor about a specific place or places where they were when a crime took place, and they have to identify

Starting point is 00:01:24 a witness or witnesses who can vouch for them. Here's what Judge John Judge told the defense about that last summer. Well, the way I understand this is, and this is in the so-called alibi, not really an alibi, but quote, he was out driving during the late night and early morning hours of November 12th, 2013. So interestingly enough, Koberger didn't identify any witnesses who can say, I saw Brian in that filing. So Koberger has kind of offered an alibi. This is what I would call alibi-ish. The filing also seeks to cast doubt on claims made by the prosecution in its probable cause affidavit. For instance, police had said Brian Koberger's cell phone was moving south through Pullman at 2.27 a.m. the morning of the murders, but then stopped reporting to cell networks until 4.48 a.m.

Starting point is 00:02:27 That covers the time the murders are believed to have occurred. But Koberger claims his expert, Cy Ray, analyzed cell records and will testify that Brian Koberger's mobile device was south of Pullman, Washington and west of Moscow, Idaho on November 13, 2022, and that Brian Koberger's mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Polman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13th, and thus could not be the vehicle captured on the video along the Moscow-Polman Highway near Floyd's Cannabis Shop. Now, in this notice of alibi, Koberger explains how he moved to Washington from Pennsylvania in June of 2022 and was an avid runner and hiker, so he'd often explore the area, often late at night.

Starting point is 00:03:13 One place he frequented was Wawee Park near Pullman, where he was a student at Washington State University. So what does all of this mean for Brian Koberger's case? With me to discuss that is Andy Wilson. He is a former prosecutor. He has prosecuted death penalty cases in the past. Andy, this alibi, I call it alibi-ish because Brian Koberger's not naming any witnesses who can actually vouch for him. So what does that mean for this filing? Well, first of all, the Idaho Criminal Code requires that if you're going to use an alibi defense, you have to file notice of it. This is part of that process. And the whole idea is to put the prosecution really kind of on notice of what it is you're going to try to say so they can prepare to present rebuttal evidence to deal with whatever that defense is going to be. So typically, from a prosecution point of view, what you'd like to see with an alibi is, or with a notice of alibi, is some level of specificity. And what I see here is,

Starting point is 00:04:16 this is just kind of a general plea. Hey, the defendant was out in the country in the middle of the night, looking at the moon, looking at stars. Again, from a prosecutor point of view, I certainly would respond and ask for more specificity. I would ask for specific witnesses who may be able to prove his comings and goings. They did list a witness that they're going to try to use to show where he was through phone records. But I just don't think that that's probably general enough to do what you have to do with respect to the alibi. Yeah. I mean, I think they're going to want a specific person who can actually testify to this. That's what I'm guessing they mean by

Starting point is 00:05:02 a witness, a person that can put you there. I'm also here seeing that they say he was at this favorite spot of his. It's Hawaii Park. And that this became a favorite spot of his as he moved from Pennsylvania to Washington in June of 2022. This is somewhere he frequented. He was a night owl, so he would frequently go on these drives. And he actually had photos, including in November of 2022. This is somewhere he frequented. He was a night owl, so he would frequently go on these drives. And he actually had photos, including in November of 2022, at the same month of the murders, of the sky and of the moon and the stars. So this guy's out and about at night,

Starting point is 00:05:37 late at night in the early morning hours, according to the defense, taking pictures of the stars and the moon at this park. So does that help him that this is somebody who is out and about at times in the middle of the night? So I don't think it does. Again, it doesn't provide enough specificity to actually prove that he was somewhere else at the time of the murders. As a matter of fact, when I prosecute cases, I like the notice of an alibi because it kind of tips the defense hands. It kind of shows me what they may or may not do with respect to the case.

Starting point is 00:06:16 And there's a couple of different things I look for. Number one is you can get a notice of alibi that shows that your defense is going to be, you're just going to throw anything you can against the wall. So, and again, that's kind of what you see here. It's just kind of an absurd story. This guy likes to just go out in the middle of the night and take pictures of the moon and the sky. And look, I'm not saying he does that, but you also have to deal with the fact that his DNA is in the scene. You've got to deal with the fact that his DNA is in the scene. You've got to deal with the fact that he drives the exact same car that we know is over in the area of the murders.

Starting point is 00:06:53 And just to say that he was out the exact same night of the murders and he's out just driving around the countryside. It's just absurd. The other thing that I look for with respect to a notice of alibi is a lot of times it can kind of indicate whether or not the defendant's ultimately stand. And what you're seeing here is they put this expert that they're going to try to use to show the phone records that indicates to me that, again, I don't think this defendant's going to testify. I want to take a short break from this update on Brian Koberger's case to tell you about something that can help you learn more about the people in your life. It's a great website and it's called truthfinder.com.

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Starting point is 00:08:26 truthfinder.com slash lccrimefix and start accessing information about almost anyone. Again, that's truthfinder.com slash lccrimefix. I think that you're right that they are going to use experts because they've kind of said that in the past, that they plan to kind of pick things apart through expert testimony. And this is certainly one of them. And they're really, though, Andy, trying to pick apart the probable cause affidavit and what the police have said in the past. They're saying basically the cops were wrong, that his vehicle, according to their expert, the Cy Ray, was not moving east toward Moscow from Pullman on that road that connects the two towns, that he was over there in Whitman County in

Starting point is 00:09:13 Washington State where he lived. He was at the park looking at the stars and that this is something he did all the time. He would go out driving at night. And I can tell you for one, when I interviewed one of his neighbors, a downstairs neighbor, she actually said he was up late at night all the time. And they were kind of annoyed by it because he would be up late at night vacuuming and stuff like that. So he's certainly a night owl. And I think that they're going to play that up big time, that this is somebody who is up at all hours all the time. This is just who he was. Look, as a defensive team assigned to this kind of case or

Starting point is 00:09:47 fighting this kind of case, you have to do the best with the hand that you're dealt. And that's what the defense team is doing in this case. That again, they still have, even though they're going to try to use this expert to show that he wasn't eased over by Moscow, you still have to deal with the fact that his phone goes dead. He turned his phone off at the time of the murders. So again, how do you even begin to explain that as a defense attorney? The exact time that these murders are happening, your client's phone is off, a car that is basically the exact same as his is over in the murder scenes, and your client's DNA is in that scene. Again, you're going to do the best with what you have. You're going to try to argue things like, oh, he was always up late.

Starting point is 00:10:37 He was always a night owl. He liked these parks. You're going to play the hand that you're dealt. But ultimately, that is a tall mountain to climb to overcome some of this evidence. We'll see what they end up doing with it. So do you see Judge Judge allowing them to submit further information? They say that they're still waiting for additional discovery from the state before their expert can complete his analysis so they can finish filling out this alibi. So do you see the judge allowing that? Or do you see the judge saying, you know what, this isn't good enough. We're not going to allow an alibi defense at trial. So if you actually look at the Idaho

Starting point is 00:11:17 Criminal Code that governs notice of alibis, it's section 19-519. There's a subsection 5 that basically allows for good cause shown. The judge can make exceptions to the time requirements, to the notice requirements. I do believe that ultimately the judge would probably allow this that are of this high profile, you're going to see the judge make decisions that certainly are in favor of the defendant being able to present his defense. So I think that both the statute would allow it, and I think the facts and circumstances are probably going to allow this alibi to come in. We shall see. Andy Wilson, thanks so much. Thank you very much. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you back here next time.

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger Alibi Revealed: 3 Surprising Details

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger Alibi Revealed: 3 Surprising Details

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