Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger's Knife Sheath REVEALED in Evidence Drop

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Photos of the Ka-Bar knife sheath that Bryan Kohberger left at 1122 King Rd. after he stabbed four University of Idaho students on November 2022 have been released. The sheath is the most important piece of evidence in the case because it led investigators to identify Kohberger as the suspect since his DNA was on the sheath's snap. Records released by the Idaho State Police show the sheath was the only piece of evidence police had days after the murders as they were investigating a suspect who turned out to be a dead end. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy goes through the new photos and documents in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Therapy with NOCD is 100% virtual, and covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. Plus, they provide support between sessions, so you're never navigating this alone.If any of this sounds familiar, visit nocd.com to book a free call with their team. That's N-O-C-D.com to learn more and get connected to someone who can help - https://mgln.ai/track/nocd.comHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest: Chris McDonough https://www.youtube.com/@TheInterviewRoomProducer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Nearly three years. After four University of Idaho students were murdered in their home near campus, we are finally seeing one piece of evidence that led police to the suspect and the man who would eventually admit to carrying out the gruesome murders. Photos of the K-bar knife sheath found in that house on King Road, have been released, along with other pieces of evidence the crime lab tested. And we're learning the police actually had a suspect very early on. Plus, we're hearing what the DoorDash driver told police she saw the night of the murders.

She will pop back up in the window and I would see her again. I'll go through all of it. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and this is Crime Fix. If you've ever suffered from the intrusive thoughts that come with OCD, you know they can be really scary. OCD is one of the most misunderstood conditions. It's not just the stereotype of liking things neat. It's upsetting and out-of-character thoughts that refuse to pass, causing overwhelming distress. But with specialized therapy, OCD is actually highly treatable.

NoCD is the world's leading OCD treatment provider. All of their therapists are expertly trained in exposure and response. prevention therapy, the most effective treatment available. Plus, no CD, it's 100% virtual. It provides support between sessions and is covered by insurance for more than 155 million Americans. Visit nocd.com to book a free call and get connected to someone who can help. Slowly but surely, we've been getting a look at the evidence crime scene investigators collected from 1122 King Road. We've seen the photos from inside the house. house documenting every inch of the crime scene showing the college house where Maddie Mogan,

Kali Gonzalez, Santa Cronodal, and Ethan Chapin were stabbed to death just after 4 a.m. on November 13th, 2022. It's been nearly three years and it's really hard to believe in some ways. The one piece of evidence that was key to tracking down a suspect, the Kbar knife sheath. And now we're seeing photos of that sheath that police said they found next to Maddie Mogan's leg in her bed. Police say DNA testing of swabs taken from the sheath revealed a single source of male DNA that didn't come back to anyone when it was put into CODIS, the combined DNA index system. Kodis is the FBI's database of known felons. From there, the DNA sample was sent to Othrom Labs in Texas,

and they got to work performing genetic genealogy work to put a name with the DNA sample. The FBI, of course, took over that work in December, And by December 19th, they'd given the name Brian Coburger to Moscow police. But back to the sheath. From what we're seeing, the crime lab accepted the sheath on November 16th. A photo shows that it was placed in a brown paper evidence bag and labeled on November 16th. It was photographed at the crime lab to document the chain of custody. The first stop at the crime lab was the DNA unit.

A ruler was placed next to the sheath to document its size for frame of reference in the evidence photos. that's always done when evidence is documented properly. The snap of the sheath was the first area that was swabbed. That would become very important later. Also swabbed the edges of the handle portion of the sheath and the edges of the blade portion of the sheath. The backside of the sheath was also swabbed because there were portions of the sheath that either tested presumptively positive for blood or appeared to have blood spots on it.

They were very small. That same day, trace evidence was collected. from the strap portion of the sheath. The next stop for the sheath at the crime lab, the latent prints unit. An analyst examined it for latent fingerprints and didn't find any. Again, the chain of custody was documented and the sheath was photographed. We now know the lab got results for DNA on the snap of the sheath. It was a single source male DNA profile that was submitted in Decodas, as I mentioned earlier.

And there was other DNA found on the handle portion of the sheath on the back. There was a mixture of DNA on the back of the handle that the lab said Kaylee was the major contributor for and Maddie was the minor contributor for assuming it was a mix of DNA from two people. The DNA, the blood from Kaylee and Maddie on the sheath, it's so small you can barely see it. But get this, in the first days of the investigation, Moscow police actually had their eyes on a suspect. The head of the DNA unit at the crime lab wrote in an email to her staff. As of right now, the knife sheath is their only item of evidence. They have no other evidence is what we are being told. They do now have a suspect. They are following him to get a

seraptitious DNA sample. He does have, I don't have a name to check. Now, I can tell you, cigarette butts were collected from this person, but the DNA from that suspect, it didn't match the DNA from the knife sheath. So it was a dead end. And the investigators, they were back to square one. Even with the single source male DNA on the snap of the knife sheath, the crime lab wasn't done processing that sheath. On December 5th, 2022, the DNA analysts pulled that sheath out and swabbed areas that hadn't been swabbed before. This time, the sheath looked discolored in areas probably where it had been swabbed earlier. This time, they swabbed the area where the Eagle and the K-bar USMC emblem was located, likely trying to see if there was more DNA on that part of the sheet. The analysts were incredibly busy on this case. They tested a number of other items, including

crushed water bottles. They also swabbed and tested a specific Keystone Light beer can. There seemed to be a lot of interest in this specific beer can. Also swabbed and tested. A black Jansport backpack found in the living room of 1122 King Road. Several areas on the backpack were swabbed and tested. Also swabbed and tested, a black glove found outside the home. the defense would cite this glove later because it had a partial DNA profile on it of an unknown male. After Brian Koberger's arrest, investigators tore apart his car, looking for DNA evidence. They tested his floor mats, the brake pedal, and the car seat covers. They even put those car seat covers under a black light, looking for stains that could contain DNA evidence.

But they didn't find anything. They tested black spider gloves, a Dickie's Beanie hat that he purchased at Walmart and other black gloves. Again, no DNA connecting him to the murders was found. The lab even took cuttings from his mattress covers after what appeared to be reddish-brown stains were found. Again, no DNA connecting Brian Coburger to the victims was found. And remember the DoorDash driver who delivered Zana's food that night? We're going to get to her interview with police very shortly. So I want to bring in somebody who's been following this case very, very closely. and he's been going through these documents just like I have. He's Chris McDonough.

He hosts the interview room on YouTube also is part of the Cold Case Foundation and a retired homicide detective. He has a lot of gigs and a lot of titles. So Chris, let's start with the sheath. The sheath, in my view, no sheath, no DNA, no arrest, no case. So very important piece of evidence. They handled this thing very delicately. very carefully. We see all of the photos. We see all of the documentation of how they process the sheath. I was surprised. I thought maybe there'd be a little bit more DNA evidence

from the victims on it, but it's just a couple of specs. And when you look at that, coupled with the single source male DNA profile on the snap that they found, yikes. I know it was found right next to Maddie's leg, but I mean, that's a very powerful piece of evidence. Yeah, I totally I really agree, Anjanet. I mean, there's, if we look at the totality of everything, you know, right from the get-go, that, that sheath was critical. And when we now read these lab reports, it was handled, you know, quite frankly, the chain of custody and everything was right on target. I mean, there was, there were no mistakes made in relationship to how the sheath was found, how the sheath was processed, you know, when it was picked up, et cetera, and then sent to the lab where they got the DNA hit. Ultimately, being Brian Colberger. What I found so interesting about it, and I've got my kind of prop sheath right here, was how, I mean, they really, they knew how important it was. And there's an email on November 16th, you know, three days after the homicides in which Riley Nolan, who is the, she's the head of the DNA unit there. She's the boss.

she's telling them this is the only piece of evidence they have this is it the sheath is all they've got so that's all they knew at that point in time i mean they didn't have it sounds like at that point in time or didn't realize the importance of the white car speeding away they had the sheath so they had really delicately gone over that they had done presumptive blood testing on it, swabbed that, swabbed certain areas that they thought, okay, we might get DNA off these certain portions of it. And then we see this email where Riley Nolan is saying they've got a suspect. That was a surprise because there were labs of middle forms where it said suspect with the name blacked out. But on the 16th, they had a suspect and they were following

this person and trying to get like DNA samples. I think they got cigarette butts from this person and then sent them to the lab, but then that didn't pan out. So what did you think when she's like telling her crew, hey, we've got a knife sheath. That's their evidence. It's all they've got. And they're following some guy. Yeah. And that pops up on the 16th of November. So there are three days into the investigation. Now, one of the challenges where investigators gets, you know, tunnel vision, let's say, for lack of a better term. The fact that, you know, it's such a high profile case, and now you add into the dynamics of it's so high profile

that they haven't had a murder within, you know, seven years within side of that community. So what unfortunately happened, I believe, in this particular investigation, because it is so fluid, they locked into a particular theory potentially. And that theory, in of itself, they wanted to see, you know, who would

fit into the theory, okay? And so there are two lanes going here initially when this thing goes down. The first lane is obviously the DNA on that sheet is going to tell us a lot of information. They don't have a name. They don't have anything at that point. They just have this sheet that's sent to the lab. And that email is from the lab technician saying, look, I had a debriefing. They're looking at a guy. They're following this guy. They're trying to get some DNA, so that will help us when they get the DNA, okay, from this person. And, you know, they're following them around trying to get, you know, whatever, you know, a cup, trash, or anything like that that would have his DNA on it. Simultaneously, they have pulled fingerprints from either

the doors or the windows at the residence. And there are two fingerprint cards, L5 and L6. they are also simultaneously trying to get those two fingerprint cards matched up with a name. And now, and here's the sad part initially as this thing's going on, to your point. There's a white car that's also in the area, and they're not chasing that white car as quickly as they're chasing the DNA and the science. So that white car now is an unknown when in all reality, it turns out it's right underneath their nose in the next campus over. Yeah. And I'm sure that a lot of people say, well, your Monday morning quarterbacking, you know, hindsight's 2020. But, you know, it does seem like they were like, oh, we have a suspect.

And so we're going to run around and chase this guy. But you got to kind of look at everything that's going on at the same time. I would like to know more about who this alleged suspect was that they thought could have done this. We then find out they get their surreptitious DNA samples, their cigarette butts, and they, I'm sure, we're like, you know, they run it. They get the single source DNA off the snap. They figure out they've got this DNA. It's single source. It's like pristine, it sounds like.

And they figure out it doesn't match. So I'm sure they were like. Oh, God. Now we're back to square one. They send the DNA off to Authrum Labs. They start building out the family tree. They can't get a hit in CODIS. That work starts. And then they're doing all this other DNA testing. I mean, I don't envy the DNA analysts in this case because they're swabbing crushed up water bottles. That house was a petri dish. They're swabbing gloves found outside. They're swabbing keystone light cans. I mean, My God, can you imagine how long this DNA analyst or analysts would have been on the stand during trial? Yeah, and that goes back to this idea of, you know, investigative experience. I mean, I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. I've done hundreds of murders and a lot of profile, a high, very high profile murders. And, you know, that pressure that's put into an investigative team is, is in.

And so you learn, you learn to delegate what they should have, in my opinion, it's just my opinion, is they should have assigned somebody each one of these lanes, you know, Joe, you're going to chase down the DNA. Bob, you're going to do the fingerprints, Hank, you're going to do the car. So you've got all three directions, if not more, going 100 miles an hour. And that's where the FBI comes in. Because the FBI has resources, a lot of lot of them. And the FBI's the, you know, they're, they're really great at knocking on doors and saying, where would the FBI, we'd like to talk to you, okay? That's how they get on to Pennsylvania. And when we read these lab reports now, we see that they, they had a trash or at least they had some trash, and they pulled the dad's DNA off of a Q-tip. And that's what started the IGG. And they did the comparative analysis and says, well, we can't eliminate this guy as being the father of a potential, you know, contributor to item number one, which was

the knife sheet. So they hadn't. But here's the problem with that. They didn't get that until about, you know, the 30th, the 28th, 29th of, you know, December. Yeah, they're in a month. They're into a month. Well, meanwhile, you know, you've got that car that, you know, WSU found it. They made some decisions that were, you know, we're not going to knock on the door, which contradicts the point of putting a BOL, a be on the lookout for a white Hyundai. Okay. And then you find a white Hyundai in a, you know, wanted to, at least for questioning, you know, whoever was driving that car at four o'clock in the morning, you find one. Okay. And by the way, there are only 11 in that area. I've heard on the, you know, people talk about, well, there's thousands of white hondays. Yeah, there are. Okay. But there's only 11 in that area. Okay. So that's where the FBI comes in. You say, okay, we've got 11 of

these, here you go. Here's the registration for all 11. Go talk to these people. End a story. And had they done that, we don't know what evidence Brian Kohlberger destroyed while it was sitting right there in Washington State across the line from Idaho. Well, we certainly know that he went through that car because they went and tested it. They tested a lot of stuff out of that car and found nothing, really. Apparently, it sounds like he was Mr. Clean scrubbing that thing out. So the floor mats looked like spotless, like they had been armor-old. So it was pretty interesting to look at.

Chris McDonough, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming on and offering your thoughts and your expertise. Thank you. Okay, remember the DoorDash driver, the one who delivered the food to Zana that morning right before the murders? Well, her name was Molly McMichael. We now have her interview with police. Here's a little bit of what she told police she saw that morning.

I kind of walked around with my flashlight. So I'm on my mom would go and trying to figure out where it was. I remember when I pulled up, I saw the girl in the window. Did he told you about that top window on the left? I would swear that she was swinging on a hammock or something, but she could have just been on the top of the bed or something. It just didn't seem odd because she was watching me. and usually when you do an order

and that's somebody sees you if that's where it's from they see you they come running down to the drawer whether it's a no contact order or not and she jumped right down as soon as she saw me and saw that I saw her I noticed several times as I was walking around and trying to find the place

she would pop back up in the window and I would see her again I'm a girl and I've got a flashlight But a car came driving by. It was a sedan. It was a sedan. And the gentleman that was driving, I remember it because it was odd that he did not look at me. Molly McMichael did not see Brian Coburger that night.

Investigators determined he pulled in behind her as she was dropping off the food and then he pulled out of the driveway and parked at the back of the house. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Janette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time. Thank you.