Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger's SHOCKING Plea Deal Divides Victims' Families

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Bryan Kohberger has agreed to plead guilty to the murders of Maddie Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle. The murders stunned the small college town of Moscow, Idaho and the world. The plea agreement, which will send Kohberger to prison for life, has infuriated Kaylee Goncalves' family while Ethan Chapin's family is supporting it. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy talks with death penalty prosecutor Mark Weaver about the developments in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code CRIMEFIX at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: http://incogni.com/crimefixHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Producer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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This isn't the will of the victims. This is just one person making a decision and it doesn't reflect what we were asking for. The father of Kaylee Goncalves furious after Brian Coburger accepts a plea deal that takes the death penalty off the table. I look at what this means, accepts a plea deal that takes the death penalty off the table. I look at what this means, how the plea deal came about, and what it means for the victims' families. Welcome to Crime Fix.

I'm Anjanette Levy. He did it. Brian Coburger has accepted a plea agreement where he will plead guilty to murdering Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, and Zana Curnodle for nearly three years. Brian Coburger has denied through his lawyers that he had anything to do with the murders

in the early morning hours of November 13th, 2022. He denied he was the man in all black with bushy eyebrows who walked into that house on King Road in Moscow with a knife, a huge K-Bar knife, and murdered those four beautiful college students. But now, something has changed just in the last week or so, probably around the time that Judge Hippler denied Coburger's request for a continuance and denied his request to introduce evidence that four other suspects carried out the murders. Coburger's lawyers apparently approached prosecutors last week and asked them if they'd be willing to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for him pleading guilty.

Now, Coburger may be admitting to the crimes, but that doesn't mean there aren't questions. And I, for one, have many, many, many questions, and I would like to get those answers. Actually, I'm kind of demanding to get those answers. For one, where is that K-Bar knife? Where are the clothes that Brian Koberger wore that night? Who was he targeting that night? Was it the house or a specific person? I, for one, have always thought that Maddie Mogan was his intended target since he went into her bedroom first. I believe he didn't expect her best friend Kaylee Gonsalves to be in the bed with her and that Kaylee probably woke up and that threw off whatever

sick plan he had in his head. I think that plan spiraled out of control and so did Coburger. He lost control and killed four people to silence them, so they couldn't lead to him being captured. I think he's somebody who wanted to be in control and demanded to be in control all of the time. The evidence was stacking up against Coburger. He bought all black clothing, including a balaclava, very similar to this one at Dick's Sporting Goods.

This is where I bought this one. It's very similar. He bought a K-Bar knife, sheath and sharpener off of Amazon eight months before the murders. His DNA was on the snap of the sheath. Actually, this part, this inner part of the knife sheath, the snap right there, it was very similar to this one. And it was left next to Maddie Mogan's leg. Coburn drove a white Hyundai Elantra seen in the neighborhood at the time of the murders. His phone was off during the murders.

Victim Kaylee Goncalves, her family, they are furious, absolutely furious about this plea deal. They wanted Coburger put to death, and there was no guarantee that that would happen if he was convicted. They posted on Facebook on Monday. It's true, we are beyond furious at the state of Idaho. They have failed us.

Please give us some time. This was very unexpected. We appreciate all of your love and support. Now, the family then released a very lengthy statement. It reads, the death penalty is merely an illusion in the criminal justice system. When available, it serves as a bargaining tool for the state, and when rarely applied, it's never enforced due to a highly inefficient appellate process. The notion that someone can plead guilty to a crime

and still face years of appellate delays reveals a systemic failure. The Laetaw County Prosecutor's Office's treatment of our family during this process is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. We questioned decisions early in the investigation. Why was the mayor commenting on the case? Why was the coroner speaking to families? Why was an officer with less than two years experience leading the

investigation? Why was the University of Idaho involved when they declared it an isolated off campus incident? Why was the university permitted to write a book about the incident while others were silenced under an overly broad order? As a result, we were branded adversaries. So it was no shock how the Laetaw County Prosecutor's Office mishandled the plea deal. They vaguely mentioned a possible plea on Friday without seeking our input and presented the plea on Sunday. Laetaw County should be ashamed of its prosecutor's office. Four wonderful young people lost their lives, yet the victims' families were treated as opponents from the outset. We weren't even called about the plea. We received an email with a letter attached. That's how Laetaw County's

prosecutor's office treats murder victims' families. Adding insult to injury, they're rushing the plea, giving families just one day to coordinate and appear at the courthouse for a plea on July 2nd. Who do they think they are? After more than two years, this is how it concludes with a secretive deal and a hurried effort to close the case without any input from the victims' family on the plea's details. Our family is frustrated right now and that will subside and we will come together as always and deal with the reality that we face moving forward.

Once again, we thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers. Our content shows you just how important your personal safety is and that's especially true. When it comes to protecting your privacy online, you would be absolutely shocked at how much of your personal information is out there like your address and phone number. Ever wonder why you get so many spam calls and emails? That's because this information, it's all

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They contact those companies for you to get your online safety back. You don't have to do a thing and then they alert you after the request has been completed. After signing up, I get virtually no spam now, so I highly recommend giving Incogni a try. So I highly recommend giving incognito try right now anyone who uses code crime fix and incognito Comm slash crime fix gets 60% off. That's code crime fix at incognito.com Slash crime fix for 60% off an annual incognito plan Now Steve Gonsalves appeared on Banfield on News Nation on Monday night. Take a look. This is anything but justice. This is the opposite of our will.

There was no majority believing that this was acceptable. I want to honor all the police officers, the FBI, and all the people that worked their tail off. The failure is at the court level, 100%. But the men in the boots on the ground and the women that were out there working, I want to honor everything that they did for our children, 100%.

The fault is in leadership and the people that you place this evidence upon, they were weak. They decided to play God and decide what this man's decision should be. And not a jury, not a peers, not his peers, they, you know? So that's where we are today. Steve Goncalves also had some very strong words for Bill Thompson, the Laetaw County prosecutor.

Absolutely zero, none. Could be no farther than how we believe. I want my community support. I want that jury to make the decision, not Thompson. Not some old man who's 70-frickin' years old deciding how my daughter's life weighs in a courtroom. That is not justice. That is not justice at all. I'll take my jury, I'll take my peers all day long. I'm sick of one man deciding or one woman deciding what a life's worth. So that's how I stand on that. But not all of the families feel the same way. Ethan Chapin's mother, Stacy, told a Boise News anchor that the Chapins will be in Boise tomorrow, July 2nd, in support of the plea bargain.

So the Chapins are supporting the guilty plea. So in fairness, prosecutors make decisions like this all of the time. But a lot of the times they sit down with the family members and meet with them more than once to discuss these things. And sometimes it takes many, many hours and more than one meeting. So why now? And why the rush to get this hearing done just a few days after notifying the families? What's the rush? There are still many, many, many questions to be answered. questions to be answered. Okay, so I'm bringing in Mark Weaver. He is a special prosecutor in the state of Ohio who has prosecuted death penalty cases. And he also practices in the state of

Pennsylvania. Mark, we were originally thinking about talking about these Pennsylvania witnesses. Now we're talking about a plea agreement, a plea agreement for Brian Coburger. And this is something we've discussed before about possibly taking the death penalty off the table in exchange for Brian Coburger pleading guilty. So your reaction to this latest development. Well, your viewers know from our previous conversation that we anticipated this would happen. The more evidence of guilt,

the more likely the defense counsel comes to the table and says, can't we cut a deal here? What's a little surprising is that the prosecutors took this deal, given how much evidence they had that Brian Kloberger was the person who committed these murders. They've been saying for months now, and it's been kind of interesting to watch Ann Taylor's evolution that she was standing up in court kind of pounding her fists on the table that he's innocent, he's innocent. And of course, you know, this is her client.

She has to defend him and stand up for his constitutional rights. But it seemed like the more we learned, you know, we were learning, the worse it looked for him, the more we learned as far as the evidence goes with the Amazon click data, the purchase of the knife, the balaclava purchase, which, you know, whatever, you know, the bushy eyebrows, the description from the roommates, the seeing the guy in the all black, the balaclava added to that, the white car, you know, the DNA on the knife sheath, all of these things, you know, and then the Google searches, I mean, and then Ann Taylor kind of shifted.

Her demeanor seemed to shift once they got to Boise, once they got to Ada County and they got the change of venue and Hippler seemed to really drop the hammer on them a little bit. I kind of feel like I should call him Hippler the hammer. But she said he maintains his innocence. She kept saying our client maintains his innocence. And we were hearing kind of that he was difficult

to deal with. What makes Brian Coburger suddenly just say, yeah, I'll plead guilty instead of going through a trial? Well, we're all trying to look into the situation behind a curtain that we can't see, but a defense counsel who changes her tone like that probably didn't realize this other evidence was out there, that her client had been telling her a story, that she perhaps believed it, although an experienced defense attorney should be skeptical of everything their clients tell them.

And so for her to change her tone like that, either she was just learning about this new inculpatory evidence or she realized how ridiculous she sounds by loudly proclaiming his innocence when the evidence, which she detailed pretty effectively there, when that evidence was stacking up. And I left out the cell phone evidence of his cell phone being turned off right before the murders, the cell phones off and not reporting to the network over that time period that covers the homicides. And then, you know, the stargazing alibi that they tried to get past the court.

You know, there was a lot court. There was a lot there. There's a lot, circumstantially. It's worth complimenting the investigators because there were no eyewitnesses to these murders. We don't know anybody who saw the murders happen. And they weren't on video. And so old school police work, taking little pieces of evidence and building them and grabbing them

from all these different areas, build a pretty strong case. Mark, Steve Goncalves, we haven't heard from the other family members, but Kaylee Goncalves's father, Steve Goncalves, is furious, absolutely furious. TMZ is reporting that Zana Kernodle's aunt, Kim Kernodle, is upset by this. We haven't heard from Maddie Mogan's family. We haven't heard from Ethan Shapin's family. I keep checking for updates.

But Steve Gensalves is furious. He said they have a regular, he told News Nation, they have a regular Friday meeting with the prosecutors to just an update on what's going on with the case. The possibility of a plea agreement was brought up last Friday on this Zoom call, and they said absolutely not. They would not be on board with that. Zero chance that they would support that.

They wanted a trial. They wanted Brian Coburger to get the death penalty, they've been very vocal about that. And then Sunday, they get a letter saying, guess what, there's going to be a plea agreement. He's going to plea guilty to all counts in exchange for the death penalty being taken off the table. Whoa. Is that how you would have handled this as a special prosecutor who has prosecuted death

penalty cases? Probably not. But let's start with, let's wait to hear both sides. This family has every right to be emotional and upset. I'd like to hear what the prosecutor has to say before I reach a conclusion about whether this was handled right. But I will say this.

In my most recent death penalty case, which was last year, we had two different factions in the family of the victim, and they had different viewpoints on the case. And so my colleague, Greg Rogan, and I met with the family repeatedly, both factions, sometimes separating them in different rooms because they were of different minds. And we wanted them to be able to have the strongest possible say about what happened. Having said that, in each of those meetings, we gently reminded them that they are not the final decision maker about the charges, that we represent the state, and that we have

to make the best decision. But I would have never dreamt of telling that family that we were going to reduce the charges to life in prison, which is what we did in that death penalty case last year, by letter. You don't do that to people. If that's true, I want to hear what the prosecutor says, if that's true, that they found out about it by letter, that's not the way you handle the family of a murder victim. So Brian Koberger, we don't know how long he's been thinking about this.

We do know he's awakened every day for the last two plus years in a jail cell. He's somewhat intelligent, although how this crime was carried out doesn't suggest that he has a lot of common sense, I will say that. But he does have a certain level of intelligence. So he's had to have thought about this. And he may think he's smarter than everybody else.

I don't know. I don't know Brian Koberger. I just know what we've read about him. What makes him just decide? I guess the lawyers, you know, I've talked to defense attorneys who they probably had a come to Jesus meeting with him or several come to Jesus meetings with him. The defense, we've seen this in other cases, Mark, too. We saw this recently in the Chad Dorman case in the state of Ohio where his attorneys right

before trial went to the state and said, hey, will you let us plead, he'll plead if you take the death penalty off the table and the prosecution agreed to spare the families a trial. That decision, it makes me wonder, how does that decision come to be? Did they just throw in the towel, I guess? I've never been a criminal defense lawyer, but I know lots of them.

And what they tell me is that sometimes the client, the defendant, needs to just sit with the facts and let it soak in and realize that they're not gonna win this case because early on they're very energetic. We can beat them. I've got all these great arguments. And defense counsel, good ones, no deep down, which cases are losers.

This case was gonna be a loser. Having said that, for those people who are angry about the death penalty being gone, and I understand that, I've been involved in a lot of death penalty cases in my career, I would remind them of this. One juror can stop you from getting the death penalty. You could go through the entire trial and get one juror who says no, and you're back to square one. And if you do get the death penalty, that the appellate process is such that you will not see an execution for even in a state like Idaho, 10, 15, 20 years, and one federal judge can stop it and turn it back around, whether it's a post-conviction

relief or habeas corpus proceeding. And so it's hard to get a death penalty case to stick. And so sometimes prosecutors say, if we can get this, we can guarantee he's in prison for the rest his corpus proceeding. And so it's hard to get a death penalty case to stick. And so sometimes prosecutors say, if we can get this, we can guarantee he's in prison for the rest of his life. And his appellate rights are almost zero. What do you expect at sentencing? Obviously, there would be victim impact statements. What do you expect there?

I have been troubled by this judge's gag order on these families. I have argued... Well, the families aren't subject to the gag order. Some of them have chosen just not to speak. Yeah. It's interesting how we've not heard from these families as much as I thought we would. I want their voice to be heard in court in these victim impact statements. Anybody who's been previously gagged,

I do think the gag order was a little broad in this case. I think ought to be able to be heard, whether it's in court or to the media afterwards. Mark, are you surprised that the families learn about this plea agreement on a Sunday, and then there's kind of a rush to get the hearing done, you know, several days later. We've not heard from the prosecution

about what communications they gave to the victims. So I'm open to hearing from that. But the calendar is obvious. They're rushing to the plea agreement. There's no reason to rush. This is a death penalty case. This guy's not going anywhere. There are no deadlines.

Now, the judge does have to worry about seating a jury and pulling the panel together. You can manage that a week or two out from trial. So I don't know why they would be rushing to get this done by tomorrow. Oh, there's a holiday coming. That's not a reason either. Just put it off till next week. The victim's family need time to sit with this troubling decision for them. As I've said many times before, as someone who's

worked on death penalty cases, there are some strong reasons why it's a good idea to take the death penalty off the table. You get a guaranteed result. You get almost no appeals. And you get some closure and measure of justice. The notion of rushing it. And some people can't get there quickly enough for their own personal situation. Some of the victim's families might not be able to be there.

The judge ought to be worried about that. Every victim family who wants to be there should be there. Mark Weaver, thank you so much. Thank you. And we are going to stay on top of this. We're going to try to get all of our questions answered. We're going to demand that our questions get answered. And we're going to be looking into the evidence in this case

and working to get it for you, to show it to you. I'm not talking about graphic or a crime scene photos. I'm talking about possible interrogations, body camera footage, things of that nature. So stay with me here on Crime Fix. And that's it for this episode. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. I will be in Boise covering this hearing for you.

Stay with us here on Law and Crime. I'll see you back here next time. -♪ MUSIC PLAYING. FADES OUT.