Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger’s Sick Obsessions And Secrets Exposed

Episode Date: August 15, 2025

Bryan Kohberger attempted to hide his internet and cell phone activity in the weeks leading up to the murders of four University of Idaho students. But two digital forensics experts from Cellebrite went through the data and found mistakes Kohberger. Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart uncovered Kohberger's bizarre relationship with his parents, his obsession with serial killers, pornography and much more. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy talks with the Barnharts in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/CrimeFixHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guests:Heather Barnhart https://x.com/HeatherMahalikJared Barnhart  https://x.com/bizzybarneyProducer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. This wasn't just someone who was like, hey, I'm interested in the case. He was going and downloading the Moscow press releases to his device. Brian Koberger's secrets are being exposed by two experts who did a deep dive into his cell phone and computer. And what they uncovered is disturbing. Lots of flexing muscles, selfies, half-clothed. Like, there's numerous instances of that on his phone.

I talk with the two investigators who pieced together Brian Koberger's digital trail and the things he couldn't erase no matter how hard he tried. Psychopathic paranoia and studying serial killers. And looking to get rid of his car, he was nervous. Plus, we're seeing new video of Brian Koberger returning home. home after committing the murders. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy.

Brian Coburger, he believed he had thought of everything and his plan to carry out murder. And he really tried to cover his tracks when it came to his cell phone and his computer, but he may not have done a good enough job. Because two experts went through data from his phone and his computer and found evidence that would very likely have painted a damning picture of guilt had his trial

moved forward. Those experts are Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart from Celebrate, and they're going to join me here very shortly. Celebrate is a firm that employs top experts from around the world in digital forensics. They analyze electronics and they testify at trials. And the things that Jared and Heather found, they're really going to creep you out. And those things could be part of what led Brian Coburger to ask for a plea deal earlier this summer. Coburger pleaded guilty to murdering Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsolvis, Zana Kurnodle, and Ethan Chapin last month. Coburger is now serving four consecutive life sentences for the brutal killings.

Coburger was a criminology major at Washington State University, so he was studying crime and serial killers. One serial killer we've told you about that Coburger was studying, Ted Bundy, who attended college in Washington. but then killed women in several states, including Utah, Colorado, and Florida. Bundy was caught after murdering sorority sisters in Tallahassee. But the Barnhart say that Brian Coburger was obsessed with other serial killers. When the Barnhart started digging, they found that Brian Coburger was searching for serial killer Harvey Glatman.

He was a rapist in the 1950s who was known as the Lonely Hearts Killer. He also was called the Glamour Girl Slayer. Another was Robert Hansen, who kidnapped, raped and murdered at least 17 women in Alaska in the 1970s and 1980s. Coburger also searched for Tommy Lynn Sells, who was known as the Coast to Coast killer and is believed to be responsible for more than 22 murders. But one of Coburger's searches really jumped out at the Barnhart's. That search was for a man whose name isn't as widely known as, say, Ted Bundy. Danny Rowling was dubbed The Gainesville. River after he murdered four female college students and a male student in August of 1990,

ruling broke into the apartments of the college students dressed in all black, wearing a mask. He sexually assaulted two women in one apartment and stabbed them with a K-bar knife. He also entered the homes of one of his victims through a sliding glass door. Does this sound familiar? This sounds a lot like Brian Koberger and what he is now admitted to doing to madly Kaylee, Zana, and Ethan, with the exception of the sexual assault. But did a sexual assault not happen in Idaho because Coburger was interrupted? I believe so. It seems like Brian Coburger copied Danny Rolling. The Barnhart's also found searches for pornography on

Coburger's phone, and it was the type of pornography that was incredibly disturbing. They will describe it to you here later. And Brian Coburger, for a 28-year-old man, had a really close and bizarre relationship with his parents. He called them mother and father, and it seems like they were his only friends. Now, it's not unusual to be close to your parents, but Brian Koberger, for someone his age, talked a lot with his parents, both his mom and dad. And he was quite obsessed with his appearance. We'll have more on that later, too.

So to discuss all of this, I would like to bring in Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart. They are both digital forensics experts at Celebrite, and Heather, is also a fellow at the Sands Institute. So thank you guys both for coming on to talk with us about your work on the Idaho case. Thank you for having us. Heather, I'll start with you. When were you first approached about working on this case? It was late spring of 2023 when the FBI reached out seeing if I was interested in assisting. And then Heather, do you reach out to Jared and say, or do you go back to the FBI and say, you know, I think Jared, you know, he should be, you know, working on the case too, or how does that work? Well, I casually asked them, would you prefer

four sets of eyes versus two? And it was a laptop and a phone. So having us divide and conquer, I thought could be really helpful. And they said absolutely come in. And that's how it all started. So Jared, where do you guys go from there? So we went into the FBI office and just sort of sort of got a little bit of a pulse of where the investigation was, some of the digital evidence that they had. And I mean, from there, you really have to take a slow look at which devices did they, how they extracted data from. We had one Android phone and then a computer, and then understanding, you know, what they had already done. Like, they had already spent time and effort in looking at this evidence and then seeing where our expertise sort of fit

and what we might be able to dig for. The world can be a really scary and unpredictable place, and that's where our partner and sponsor, Morgan and Morgan, comes in. The firm has more than a thousand lawyers because they win a lot in the last few months alone. Morgan and Morgan has secured a $9.3 million verdict for a car crash victim in Florida, a $5.6 million verdict for another car accident victim in Atlanta, not to mention a $1.8 million verdict in Kentucky after the insurance company offered the victim a mere $5,000. in that case. Can you believe that? Even if you think your case isn't worth millions, why not start a claim and fight for what you deserve? Morgan and Morgan makes it really easy. You can start a claim from your phone in just eight clicks. So if you're ever hurt, you can easily start a claim at for the people.com slash crime fix or click the link in the description and pinned in the comments.

Okay, so when you start digging into the information, what do you find? Well, that was the hard part. I expected, I remember saying to Jared, we're going to go in there. We're going to find the motive. We're going to be able to tell these families why. We're going to understand how this crime occurred. And there was so much information that just wasn't there that was shocking. And that's when I started to panic a bit and saying, you know what?

I'm going to use Celebrate Inspector. The FBI granted me a license to use Magnet Axiom, which is a competitor of Celebrate. I used open source tools. it was almost a desperate chase to find data that was erased. And how hard is that to find data that is erased? Because it can be done. Well, it depends on how it was deleted. So on a computer, if you drag something to the recycle bin or if you do shift delete,

that information can be recovered for a set period of time. If it's in a database on a computer, it can be recovered for a set. period of time until it's purged. But when it's purged, depending on how it's overwritten, it can really be gone. And there are tools out there that will overwrite the data. So it is unrecoverable. So we hear, you know, in the news, we've heard in the past about programs, software, you know, bleach bit, if you will. And I'm not saying that was used in this case. But we did hear that there was some high-end software, if you will, that Brian Coburger was using to, you know, quote unquote, wipe his devices.

Is that true, Jared? Is that what was going on? No. And again, just speaking to the two devices that we participated in, if there was something on something else, maybe that's true. But that's not true for what we did. Really? Yeah.

So for the Android phone, if you think of it more of not some fancy wiping software, but the user making decisions to dumb down. connectivity and make his device less fruitful ultimately he used incognito mode in Google Chrome to try to sort of obscure the records that could be recorded about his web history you can manually go in and just clean things up clear my history like things like that with some time they do actually delete but he turned off his Wi-Fi and so making his device not able to look out there and beacon and talk to networks that he might have been near.

He used NordVPN, which in and of itself, it's benign. It's not something that is necessarily a nefarious thing. Security conscious people use VPNs all the time. Sometimes people use VPNs to stream stuff from somewhere else in the world just for fun. But as you start to build this profile of all the behaviors that he did, especially around the time of the crime, he set up his device to be dumb, minimally collecting data. And so as we started to tackle the evidence from the Android, it wasn't what's here, but very obviously what's not here.

And then hyper-focusing on the minutes and hours before and after this void of time where his phone was powered off in the middle of the night. And Heather, he physically, the prosecutor has said this. It didn't go into airplane mode. It didn't. The battery didn't die. he physically pushed this button, the power button, and turned off his phone the night of the murders. Correct.

I got lucky that I had the exact same test phone, make model, Android version, AT&T network, like everything aligned perfectly that I said to Jared, we have his exact phone. So we would replicate exactly what we found. So we would find these log files. We work with a really smart person, Josh Hickman, who is an Android expert, and we would reach out to Josh and say, do you know what this log is? What does this mean? So we recreated not only did he physically powered off. He turned off Wi-Fi two days prior to the murder.

He powered off his phone. It was at 100% battery. We were going to testify with 100% certainty. That's what he did. Why would he turn off Wi-Fi two days before the homicides? What does that mean? What does that say to you as a forensics, a digital forensics investigator? I would guess he didn't want to be detected. He knows Wi-Fi scanning happens. And we don't know. We didn't have fruitful location artifacts on his device because time to evidence matters.

And Jared can dive more into that. But if he did pre-Gy runs or showed that he wasn't connected to a. his home anymore because sometimes these phones not only show what you're connected to, but if his alibi was that he was at home, it wasn't. He was stargazing. But Wi-Fi is huge in putting you at a location. So he knew that and he wanted to prevent that. Yeah, a lot of times the, you know, choosing to press the button to turn off Wi-Fi, to me, that was preparation. That was him doing an action that he thought would help him get away with it. But what it ultimately does is it creates logging of the fact that he did that thing, you know, and then now we're

talking about it because he did that. Had he just left it on, you know, it may have done something, but it might not have also. And that behavior, you can go back and look at his phone months prior to that and see whether or not that is something he routinely did, because people are creatures of habit. Exactly. And that's what we do. We try to pattern of life. What is your norm and then we let the abnormal speak volumes to us and he didn't do that normally like brian kueberger did not normally go on his phone and turn off the Wi-Fi i i would assume yeah there were just a few instances in the log where he did that but i and and i think when this when we talk about this we tend to focus on like one individual action it did he always do that it's really a whole picture

Did he, did his phone ever power off, you know, manually by pressing the button with 100%, you know, like maybe he did that once before. But to do all of the things at the same time and in that time frame is when people were murdered, that's the point. It is, it's not a one-off thing. This is a culmination of numerous things coming together at the exact point in time where these crimes occurred. So at the time of the murders, within the two days of the murders, he's powering off his Wi-Fi. right before the murders you know he's powering off his phone was there anything else around that time period that you found that was out of the norm or unusual on his computer so this is supposed to be his school computer and according to reports that i have read jared and i did a really good

job of staying out of the media not reading things not listening to things but in our investigative calls he was apparently a good student he didn't miss well shouldn't say good student He was an attentive student who didn't really miss anything. He showed up. He had huge gaps in usage from October 12th through November 16th on his computer. However, the computer, just like Jared said, everything you do or don't do, the computer is constantly tracking it. So the computer would show that browser was in use, but then there's no history, that the system was in use, but then there's no activity. So we know that he was cleaning up his tracks.

And what that may be, who knows? And that's something that I think a lot of people want to know. What do we think would be there if he hadn't cleaned up his digital tracks? Yeah. So before the crime, we could see some browser history. After the crime, we can see browser history. In the period around the time, there's almost nothing. Like he was manually going in and clearing things around that time frame.

And that just leaves you to wonder, what was he searching? Where did he spend his minutes on his phone in that couple days because we don't have everything. Instead, we have a void and we have this period where he didn't leave the normal footprints that he did the rest of the time. So on the phone, he did Chrome incognito browsing a lot from what we have seen. On his computer, he bounced back and forth. So it seemed like he got a little bit lax in December after the murder and had normal browsing activity. but where he really made mistakes, he did a good job of clearing his browser on the PC.

He cleared his downloads. He cleared cash and cookies. So anything, if you go into the settings and it prompts you on which buttons you want to clear, great. He forgot to clear his downloads on his phone, which was very helpful to us. So what did you find on the phone

that you thought was telling or indicative of guilt? As we started to dig in, we very clearly saw this couple hours of the device powered off. And so obviously we knew when the murders happened, and that literally bookended that time. So the phone is powered off. Right away we know, like in that couple hours, we're not going to have the location ping that puts him right at the crime scene. We're not going to have health. We're not going to have some of the stuff that we would have had if it were just powered on.

But then taking sort of like a step back, so sort of timelining in both directions, we didn't have a smoking gun. And that's okay because when an alibi is I was, you know, I was out taking pictures of the stars. I really silly put in a report. You cannot use a phone that is powered off to take photos of the stars. And you might say, that's so dumb. Yeah, I know.

But, you know, that's what he said it was doing. There was a period of time. I know. I know. I'm just, you know, we all kind of, you know, I think did one of these when we read it. Right. And so just to say, like, there were zero pictures in this night of stars, like, not before, not after. Like, this wasn't, it wasn't photographing. As you take a step back, then you start to see, like, there's really, there's nothing here. And then you start to explore, why does Google Chrome have nothing right now?

But then later, we see every inch of everything he was doing. And it just starts to build this profile of specific actions taken to get rid of evidence around the time of the crime, which that in and of itself is the conversation. It's the, you know, if you ask me what I was doing on that night, even if I happened to turn my phone off, I wasn't doing all of these things. And if I, you know, looking at every normal person, because I see a lot of people say, well, I talk to my parents every day and I do this and I do that. I was like, great. But with all of these things combined in one single moment in time, it's different. than just doing one of these things as a behavior. And I think it shows premeditated intentions.

Definitely. Did he call his parents every day? It sounds like, you know, from what we're hearing after he was incarcerated, I mean, he's on video calls on his tablet in jail with his mom for hours every day. So did you guys find that he was somebody who called his mom and dad like every morning? Mother and father. That's what he called them in his phone. mother and father and yes it was very consistent like starting at like five in the morning his

time and then every single night to also put him to bed texting calling yeah i mean there were numerous times where it seemed like his mother was basically saying at east coast time saying i'm going to bed and then he was west coast time you know still staying up and doing whatever but it was normal that it was the most you know like consistent conversations between them yeah i think there were even there was a good night text once where she said go to bed brian calm down and there are a lot of exclamation points too from his mom to him because he would confirm like call now and she would say Brian I said I will call it 530 exclamation point and he's like now question mark and she would write 530 exclamation point so he's a 28 year old guy

I mean, this sounds like he's got some attachment issues. Did you see that? Or does he come off as very needy when it comes to his parents? I mean, just based on the communication, yes. And there didn't seem to be another person in his life based on what the evidence we looked at that filled any of his time. There's not a friend that got consistent messages. There was pretty much nothing except for his communication with his parents. The investigators have said there was no connection.

They found zero, no connection between Brian Koberger and Maddie, Kaylee, Zana, and Ethan. I've been to the house many times on King Road, and you can see straight into Maddie's bedroom from that upper parking lot of the apartment building next door. Is that what you found? Zero connection, you know, not one search of Maddie, not one search of Kaylee or Zana. not before but again he cleared a lot of his history so if he was searching for it we weren't able to find that on the devices and that's one of the things we initially looked for right away any ties to the victims after the fact he was searching everything associated to the murders and so he did have that information then i want to talk about the um searches he did he it's my

understanding he he was searching watching a lot of news stories on youtube about this i mean he watched our stuff he watched a lot of people's stuff on youtube about this searching for his own name related to this um searching for psychopath what are you what do you guys say about all of that all of these searches that you see initially and this is where it's hard because he was a criminology major now something i would challenge i have a forensic science undergrad too And just because I did bloodstained pattern analysis doesn't mean that I looked up people who were hitting heads with baseball bats excessively. So to each their own, we know that's what the defense was going to be.

He looked up a lot of home invasions, burglaries, co-ed killings, serial killers. There was one search. I remember the first time we found it. I was sitting at the FBI and Jared was not and I was on the phone with him. I'm like, I saw something weird, Danny Rowling. And he was like, wait a second, what's that name? And Jared looked it up and he's like, he's the Gainesville Ripper. He's a co-ed killer.

Same knife. Like, there were a lot of details there that were just too eerie. And then as Jared dove into the phone, there's even more. Do you want to share that? Yeah, so again. And I think that was November, right? The first hit for Danny Rawling? Yeah, I think so.

November of 2022. Yes. On Christmas, 2022, so after the crime, late at night and into the early morning of the 26th, he was just like working through serial killers. And the site was specifically serial killer timelines. And so it just basically has this list of a bunch of serial killers. And it seemed based on the timing of it, that he was just clicking one, scanning, reading, and then going back and clicking the next one.

And literally for a period of time, just reading about. serial killer timelines and it's literally a breakdown of like how they were raised um what their childhood was like with their parents that somebody killed a dog when they were young or that they were beaten by the like it is a timeline of these people's whole lives leading up to what ultimately is them getting caught for being serial killers but he did that into the wee hours of the morning after christmas day wow and it's that he did search for danny rawling and that one's a really chilling search because Danny Rowling used a K-bar. He sexually assaulted his victims and he was wearing all black and he entered a couple of their apartments through sliding

glass doors. I did some research on that. He also searched for Harvey Glatman, Robert Hansen, Tommy Lynn Sells. Did you find any searches for Ted Bundy? Yes. We're on the PDF, right? Yep. Ted Bundy was was in this same search time. What was Brian and Coburger searching related to pornography? Yeah, so to not be too graphic with it, the consistent nature of the searches were non-consensual sex acts, which, you know, I don't know what normal would be, but it stood out to me, I've done investigations for years, and tons of mobile device extraction analysis, and seeing pornography is not weird, seeing what someone is interested in is not weird.

But the fact that that this person had non-consensual, specifically only that, not one other thing that was a consensual sex act. They were all, like, aggressive or drugged. We're sleeping. Voyeurism. It was all consistently non-consensual things. And was this before, after the homicides or both? It was, I'm not sure. It's autofill, so I don't know that we actually even have a date with it.

Yes. And that's another thing. you're clearing your history, there's so many things that when you clear your history, you may not think about. Auto fill is typically something you enter, and the browser wants to please you. So if it knows that you go to a specific site every day, it's like, oh, you're going to this news channel as you start typing A, if you're going to ABC, it knows, I'm going to promote, I'm going to save this for you.

And those words were saved in the auto fill for Chrome. Now, there has been endless speculation that Brian Koberger could have encountered Maddie or Zana at the Mad Greek restaurant in downtown Moscow where they both worked. The Mad Greek is now closed, but the restaurant served some vegan dishes. Law enforcement has said they found no connection to Coburger and the victims. I asked Heather and Jared about the possibility that Coburger ever visited the Mad Greek. Yes, and I would love to specify this a little bit more. And this was the one finding that was released to the prosecution that they came back and said the defense didn't.

like it, which made me think we were on to something. Like, this is great. So there is a Google Map cash file that was recovered from the Android that showed Mad Greek. And it looked like, I actually have it in front of me, it looked almost like a review. Or if you think about, if you Google in Google Maps and you look up restaurants nearby, you could call it, you could look at get directions, you could look at a menu. So it looks like all of those things were available. Now the issue, could it have Wi-Fi in that file? Absolutely, but I don't know. The issue is Mad Greek. Their Wi-Fi name was Mad Greek. So it's not helpful to see what was in that listing. But what Jared and I had looked at a few times and I planned to keep testing this

to figure it out exactly, if the prosecution said, Heather, is it likely that the user was in Moscow and on Google Maps said nearby restaurants or bars? and Mad Greek appeared, I would say yes. But if the defense came up and said, Heather, is it possible that from Pullman, Washington, the suspect searched for restaurants in Moscow, and this came up, could that happen? I would say yes.

So it's not like we can tie him to the location of Mad Greek, but Mad Greek, he physically saw Mad Greek on his phone. So you can't say specifically that he was there. but you found something in his phone that indicated that he had at least viewed it on his phone. Yes. So you don't have any evidence showing that his Wi-Fi on his phone bumped up against or tried to connect to the Wi-Fi at the Magh Creek. No, I wish.

And as Jared said, he was really cautious about his Wi-Fi and the cleanup and there's so many things. Logs are only kept for so long. And the fact that the investigators didn't know who, the suspect was right away. So it took time to get to his device. I know an Android logs can be cleared after 24 hours, a week, 30 days. So time to evidence is huge in cases like this. And there just wasn't a suspect fast enough. Now, Heather and Jared also have some thoughts on that disturbing thumbs up selfie that Brian Koberger took six hours after the murders where he is in his bathroom. Jared noticed something specifically about Koberger's hands. Yeah, that this thumbs up

with sort of the Band-Aid, as soon as I saw it, it catches your eye, you know, because his knuckles look just so white. And, like, it reminded me of, like, scrubbing your hands for days to try to get something off. And then there's this, like, Band-Aid that's visible that's, you know, like, just barely visible in the picture. The hoodie picture as well. It's been like sort of a popular one in the case as well. The general behavior, as I looked at it, I would have said that criminology major in studies of criminology does not excuse you for the amount of searching, the times of day. This wasn't a healthy, you know, like I'm doing this from my college class type of activity.

It seemed very different. I think the smoking gun, there really wasn't one, but for his device, was his bookend that he put around these killings. To be awake at that time of the morning, turning your phone off and then turning it back on. And there's plenty of other records that we didn't access. You know, like the FBI did some sort of cell record mapping for where his phone was based on the cell towers. That wasn't anything that we were doing. But the moment that he turned his phone back on, you know, they can start to take over and say, and this is where he was, right?

And so for that period of time where these people were killed, he was awake and had turned his phone off. And in my opinion, had prepared by killing his Wi-Fi, using VPN, clearing on a search history to do this. So he was obsessed in your mind with serious. killers and had had basically been planning this for some time. I mean, he bought, he bought the knife, we know in March of 2022, but then maybe actually plotting this, Heather, you're talking October, so a month prior. So, you know, he might have had the thought in his mind in

March, but the actual maybe planning and selection could have started possibly in October. Yeah. The gap of why that far back only on browser was weird to me. It didn't make much sense. And I'm not sure if that's possibly when he decided he was going to be more of an incognito browser. Who knows? It was just really bizarre behavior. And then there were also, Jared, do you remember all of the, I saw the show or movie American Psycho just a few times and how much the guy loved himself? and would take selfies in the mirror and how clean he would want to be and just examining his body, he seemed to do those same types of things. Yeah, lots of like flexing muscles, selfies half clothed, like that. There's numerous instances of that on his phone. There was also, he spent a lot of time on Reddit and especially post-crime. He was, I mean, there's tons of history of him looking into like the Idaho murders on Reddit.

And that's actually another thing that stood out is this wasn't just someone who was like, hey, I'm interested in the case. He was going and downloading the Moscow press releases to his device, like not just taking a look at what the news said, but like almost like saving everything that they populated. there was a Reddit post that it appears that he made based on his emails where he was looking for ex-cons to participate in some study and people were like emailing him and ultimately you see Reddit suspends him which I think was at time of rest and notification to the world but there was also a really interesting sort of pattern of things where he read something on the news that

said, police still looking for Hyundai Alatra, white in color, this year to this year, make a model. Within minutes, he searches for a car detailing place and then starts to shop for used cars. So it was almost like, I realized that they know my car, I have to get rid of it and get something different. You know, so like, again, does a normal person look to clean their car before they sell it? Sure. Right. But all of these things adding up, it just, it really pays sure. Wow. Well, is there anything that I haven't touched on that you think is really glaring and a red flag that that you think the viewers really should know about? This has been fascinating. He just had extreme obsessive behaviors, like with his mother and father, with the

abnormal porn searches, with his serial killers, wiretapping, like even some of the terms psychopath, paranoia. One thing I would say to any family, I believe by looking at his computer that he was paranoid in the end. And I think Jared can say the same thing from looking at his phone. It's not, I don't think he was just resting easy

thinking he got away with these murders. I think he knew that people were coming for him. Jared, you think he knew? Oh, yeah. And he was just waiting. I definitely think, I mean, again, the late hours, the searches that he was doing, you know, to say like psychopathic paranoia and studying serial killers into the, like it, looking to get rid of his car, he was nervous. I can't imagine when he got pulled over coming across the country what he thought in that moment. And then he probably thought I got away with it, but you could tell that he was still very nervously, like thinking that someone was coming to.

for them and they weren't. You just need a little time to figure them out. Well, it's been really fascinating talking to both you. Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart, thank you so much. Sure. Thanks for having us. Thank you. So Brian Coburger was obsessed with serial killers, non-consensual pornography, and his parents were his main contacts in his life. And take a look at this. You'll blink if you miss it. The Pullman Police Department released this surveillance video from the morning of the murders. It shows Brian Coburger's white Alantra driving home that morning at 5.27 a.m.

We'll slow it down for you. Take a look again. This camera is near Coburger's apartment. It's absolutely creepy. We'll keep an eye on more news as we find it and bring it to you. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time. Thank you.