Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Bryan Kohberger's Sister Drops Bombshell in Shocking Interview

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Mel Kohberger is one of convicted murderer Bryan Kohberger’s two older sisters. She was starting a job as a mental health therapist in New Jersey when her brother was arrested at her family’s home Pennsylvania for the Idaho murders. Now Mel Kohberger has spoken publicly for the first time in an interview with The New York Times. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy goes through Mel’s interview in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code CRIMEFIX at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: http://incogni.com/crimefixHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest:Dr. Daniel Bober  https://www.instagram.com/drdanielbober/CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Are you pleading guilty because you are guilty? Yes. That's really all we heard from Brian Koberger before he went to prison for the murders of four University of Idaho students. But now his sister is talking about her family and her brother for the first time. I go over what Mel Koberger has said about her brother. and how the crimes he's pleaded guilty to committing have impacted her family.

I'm Jeanette Levy, and this is Crime Fix. Crime is really scary. There's no doubt, but there's really nothing scarier than searching online and seeing what information is out there about you. Well, guess what? There are ways that you can protect your personal information, like your name, your phone number, address, and other info that's online, so scammers and data brokers can't get a hold of it and sell it. Incogni is a company that can do that for you. You can sign up on its site and they'll start removing your data ASAP. Setup takes just minutes, just create an account,

authorizing Cogni to act for you and they do the rest. And with their new unlimited plans custom removals feature, you can submit custom links where your data shows up and a privacy expert will remove it for you. So if you care about your online safety and you really should, take your data back with incogny. Use code crime fix for 60% off an annual plan. It's been a little more than five months since Brian Coburger was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences for the murders of Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsolvis, Ethan Chapin, and Zana Kernodal. After Coburger's arrest in late December of 2022 at his parents' home in Pennsylvania, an attorney representing him there released a statement on behalf of him, asserting his innocence and speaking on behalf of the

Coburger family. Other than that, the Coburgers haven't said anything publicly about Brian or the murders, choosing to stay silent as the case against their brother and son made its way through the courts. But now, one of Coburger's two older sisters, Mel Coburger, has decided to speak. She granted an interview to the New York Times that was published on the Times website over the weekend. I'll get to what she said momentarily, but first, just a recap of what got us to this point. On November 13, 2022, roommates of Maddie Mogan, Kayla Gansalves, and Zana Kornodal called 911, after a friend found Zana and her boyfriend Ethan dead in Zana's bedroom. Where at?

Up here. Up here, up here. You got a call for that someone, you know, you know, for a normal. Pretty much they were in the name of my part of dancing and laughing. Kaylee went upstairs and she screamed because someone's in the room and she ran downstairs. And I kept calling her name and she wouldn't answer. And I saw the guy. Oh my, my God, I just left the door and I ran downstairs, but we don't know what's going on. I heard of scream and she ran downstairs because she saw someone. That's what I'm pretty sure she said.

Someone's here and she screamed and just ran downstairs. And I called for her name, but I jumped up and locked my door because I was so scared. And then I heard someone in the bathroom when I heard her crying, and I heard some guys say that you're going to be okay. I'm going to help you. And I kept calling her name, but she wasn't answering. And then I opened the door for a second, and I saw this guy, and he was not insanely tall, but he was wearing all black in this mask,

which is covering his forehead, and his mouth heard her to scream, and she ran upstairs because she saw someone. That's what I'm pretty sure she said. Someone's here. and she screamed and just ran downstairs. And I called for her name, but I jumped up and locked my door because I was so scared. And I heard some in the bathroom when I heard her crying. And I heard some guys say that you're going to be okay.

I'm going to help you. And I kept calling her name, but she wasn't answering. And then I opened the door for a second. And I saw this guy, and he was not insanely tall, but he was wearing all black and like this mask. I was just covering his forehead and his mouth. Over the next six weeks, a massive police investigation unfolded to determine who killed Maddie, Kaylee, Zana, and Ethan, and why? And why were two roommates left unharmed? Everyone was a suspect, but unbeknownst to the public at the time was the fact that investigators had a couple of pieces of evidence that they were relying upon to lead them to a suspect. The main piece, this K-bar knife sheath, that police said they found next to Maddie Mogan's body, the DNA of an unknown male, found on the leather strap, according to lab reports, and small specks of Maddie and Kaylee's blood were found on the back,

along with the DNA of a male. The results were called low-level. Detectives also had video of a white car speeding away from the King Road neighborhood at 4.20 a.m. the morning of the murders, after the car had entered the neighborhood minutes earlier. The FBI would later tell the Moscow Police Department to look at Brian Coburger, after using investigative genetic genealogy to examine the DNA left on the strap of the Kbar knife sheath.

A little more than four days after Christmas, Koberger was arrested at his parents' home in Pennsylvania and charged with murdering Maddie Kaley, Zana, and Ethan. And then, weeks before his trial was set to begin last summer, Koberger pleaded guilty. Has anyone offered you a reward of any kind other than the plea agreement in order to get you to plead guilty today? No.

are you pleading guilty because you are guilty yes did you on november 13th 2022 uh in laytah county state of idaho uh kill and murder madison mogen a human being yes and did you do that willfully unlawfully deliberately and with premeditation and malice of forethought yes weeks later on July 23, 2025, Judge Hippler, formerly sentenced Brian Coburger to four consecutive life sentences for the murders of Maddie, Kaylee, Zana, and Ethan. Coburgers' mother and sister Amanda were there. A drawing of what appeared to be a dark heart sat on the table on a piece of paper in front of Coburger. Now just after the holidays, the New York Times published an interview from Brian

Coburger's sister, Melissa, who goes by Mel. In it, reporter Mike Baker said that Mel declined to speak about the crime itself but did want to share part of her family's story to bring out the truth about her family and what it has been like to be thrust into the spotlight for being related to someone who's committed a heinous crime. Mel said it's confusing, it's painful. It's like being victimized but not really being a victim. First, the writer said that Mel was clear that anything that her family had been through pales in comparison to the pain of what the families of Maddie, Kaylee, Ethan, and Zana have endured. Baker wrote that Mel has the names of the four students in her digital calendar along with their birthdays,

so she is reminded of those dates each year. She also said that she did not suspect her brother of the murders. Mel was quoted as saying, I have always been a person who has spoken up for what was right. If I ever had a reason to believe my brother did anything, I would have turned him in. Now, given what I played for you earlier, where you heard Judge Hippler asked Brian Coburger, are you pleading guilty because you are guilty, and he responded, yes, this next part is particularly eerie. Mel said after the murders, she called her brother because she knew he ran late at night and was the type of person who would leave his doors unlocked. Mel said, she told her brother, Brian, you are running outside and this psycho killer is on the loose.

Be careful. Mel said that Brian thanked her for checking on him and told her that he would be safe. As for her brother's White Hyundai Allantra, when the nationwide alert went out for it, she said she briefly wondered whether they could be looking for the same model, but then she found out that his was a 2015, not the 2011-2013 model named in the alert. As a teen, her brother had battled heroin addiction and even stole her phone at one point to sell it for drug money, and Mel said her dad called the police on her brother, because they feared his addiction would end with him dying of an over. overdose. Brian Coburger later overcame that addiction and went back to college. Mel said we were all so proud of him because he had overcome so much. But when her brother was arrested at her parents' home right before the New Year in late 2022, Mel described her shock. She said her sister Amanda called her to tell her that her brother had been arrested, and she asked for what, and she said Amanda told her the Idaho murders. And she wondered if it was a prank.

but then a feeling of nausea overtook her. Days earlier, she said her mom had made vegan cookies for her brother. They'd played TV party games, and she had cut herself on a piece of foil while cleaning up, and her brother appeared freaked out by the sight of blood, but helped her bandage her finger. She said her brother mentioned that they were still looking for the killer. Meanwhile, his phone contents showed he was closely monitoring the case. In the weeks and months that followed. Mel Koberger took issue with the scrutiny of her brother's mannerisms and apparent lack of emotion, blaming it on his level one autism diagnosis. She was quoted as saying that he was socially awkward and acknowledged that he could be abrasive and she told the times

they often argued. She described trying to force her brother out of the house during an argument and him de-escalating the situation by holding back her hands. But then she also described an idyllic childhood, where her parents would put blankets on the deck, and they would look at the stars. Mel said she and her brother shared a love of psychology, and they still talk about that. This past Christmas, she and her family were sad, she said, that her brother couldn't be with them. He's in prison in Idaho, of course. But then she remembers how much worse it is for the families of the victims. Mel was quoted as saying, the idea is making me so emotional that I can barely speak to you about it. Now, on his birthday this past November, Mel Koberger told the times the family made a cake,

and he asked for something that his sister Amanda might like. Mel said that her brother had her blow out the candles for him. She said the family is still trying to come to grips with the brother and son they knew and the man who pleaded guilty to murdering four young people. And remember that heart that was sitting in front of Brian Koberger on a piece of paper at his sentencing? Well, guess what? Mel Koberger said that she drew that heart and gave it to his attorneys to show support for her brother. So to discuss what Mel Koberger had to say, I want to bring in Dr. Daniel Bober. He's a forensic psychiatrist who has followed this case along with me. Dr. Bober, you know, Mel Koberger and the Koberger family, they have remained silent until now throughout this entire ordeal.

So Mel Koberger has apparently decided to speak to the New York Times. What's your take on the things that she had to say? Well, you know, Anjanet, it's not something that people really think about, you know, but what if your last name is Dahmer or Ridgeway or Rader or Bundy and you're related to these people, right? What we're really talking about is something called courtesy stigma or stigma by association, which means that you yourself did nothing wrong. but you're associated with someone who committed a horrific act.

And so we start getting into things like public suspicion, right? What did you know and when did you know it? And this identity fracture, right? Here is my brother, who I love, who I've known since I was a young child, who committed this monstrous act. How can I love him, and yet he's my brother who committed these acts, right? If I love him, is that a betrayal to the victims or their families? So these are some of the psychological factors I think you deal with when you're related to someone who is infamous and it's something that I think takes a toll on your life and it's his own form of trauma.

And that suspicion did fall upon the Coburger family, just because especially the father, you know, he flew out to Washington State to drive back with Brian Coburger in the white elantra. So that suspicion fell in the father. You know, everybody's like, were you riding back with him to get that alantra out of Washington State? Did you know that he was involved in this? Did you suspect? You know, and then there was a, you know, speculation. There was some reporting out there by Dateline that one of the siblings suspected her brother of being involved in the crimes and they went and searched the car. You know, that's been refuted by some people. The prosecution basically came out and said they weren't going to end up calling any of the coburgers to the stand at trial because they didn't have anything helpful to offer to

them. So what do you make of all of that? If the prosecution wasn't even going to call them to the stand at trial, did the family, were they maybe completely in the dark about this? Well, I think Even Mel herself said that if she knew definitively that she would have turned him in, it kind of reminds me of Ted Kaczyzzi's brother when he turned him in. I think you obviously have a moral obligation if you know that someone is going to commit future crimes or even past crimes to do the right thing for society and for the victims. But it puts you in a very tough spot, right? So where do you draw the line if you suspect something?

Do you tell the police if you suspect something or do you need hard evidence? and are you betraying that person that you grew up with, that you love, that's been with you through all these good times and bad times, it puts this person in a very difficult position and it's something that as a society, I don't think we really talk about, because we're always focused rightfully so on the primary victims and their families and the dead, but there are a lot of collaterals that suffer because of the acts of these people. in the article she points out that look i mean she she she the the author of the article article said mike baker said several times she noted that anything she and her family have been through pales in comparison uh to what the victim's families have been through um but they have been through some trauma i mean they've been scrutinized online and these this is due to actions of her of her brother, not anything that they have done. So, and she said that she didn't speak publicly and they didn't want to do anything that

added trauma to, or inflicted trauma onto the families of the victims. But they're still, you know, they still love their brother and their son and are supporting him. That's a strange, you know, kind of balancing act. It's a fine line. given the horror of this crime? Like, how do families deal with that? I think it's a delicate dance, right? You know, and again, I think it's something families really struggle with.

If I love my son, if I love my brother, am I betraying the memory of the victims? Am I betraying their families? And remember, I was reading in the article that this girl was studying to be a mental health counselor. And again, this is something where now she's not a mental health counselor. She's the killer's sister. That is almost a badge of shame that she has to wear, almost like a scarlet letter that she's always going to have to have because of her last name. I mean, maybe when she gets married, she'll change her name.

I remember watching CNN when they had Jeffrey Dahmer's brother on, and Jeffrey Dahmer's brother changed his last name to get out of the public spotlight. So this is a stigma that they carry with them, and it's not justified. you know a lot was left out of the new york times article um and that's their prerogative but you know there there was a lot that came out in the investigation about brian coberger and his behavior at washington state university particularly um his attitude toward women and the fact that he he treated women poorly in some respects or at least viewed them poorly we're not getting any of that from Mel Koberger he grew up in a house with you know a mother a father two older sisters

we're not hearing anything from her that he was ever disrespectful to her other than you know she he stole her cell phone when he was in the throes of heroin addiction they called the police which i found very interesting because they thought he was going down this horrific path that might lead to him dying of an overdose. So they did that to get him help. And it sounds like it saved him from himself and from heroin addiction. So they've

done that in the past. They called the cops on him. But there was something interesting where she talked about how they got into an argument too once. And she never knew her brother to be violent, but they got into such a heated argument that they had to like physically, like he had to

physically restrain her or whatever. So it doesn't sound like maybe everything was as Rosie in the Koberger household between Brian and her or the family as she kind of paints it out to be. You know, she says in one breath, you know, they would wake us up and get takeout and put blankets on the deck and we'd look at the stars. But then she describes this like volatile fight. So what do you think make of that? It's something I tell my patients all the time. Every family has secrets, right? people show you what they want to show you and people see what they want to see.

So she probably feels that in some way maybe she's betraying her brother to say negative things about their relationship or about the family. I'm sure she's in a very difficult spot. I know that she wants to sort of educate the public, if you will, on the fact that maybe she didn't see this coming. I think calling the police about someone who's overdosing or using heroin is obviously very different than this situation. But all these people in the family, I think, were in a very difficult spot. You know, they had a moral obligation to protect society. But again, you know, some would say blood is thicker than water and they want to protect their loved ones, too.

So it's really an impossible situation and there's no winners. If he's behaving poorly toward women or has an animus towards women, if that was indeed true at WSU, do you think that he would have been? treating his sisters nicely and his, and his mom? I mean, would that have been a different dynamic? So you would think, right? But people can compartmentalize. You know, you see this with organized crime figures, right? They can go up and they can hack three people, but then they go down to their family and they sit down and they have dinner like nothing's wrong and they hug their kids. So people are capable of compartmentalizing. And we saw this also with Ted Bundy. You know, he was

leading this, you know, what seem like idyllic family life, but committing horrific crimes at night at different times. So it seems like the two would not be compatible with each other, but people can lead very different lives within the same person.

And she talks about, you know, how mom, you know, he calls her mother bake the vegan cookies, you know, they're playing party games at Christmas. She cuts herself with a piece of foil and he's grossed out by the but helps her like bandage it up meanwhile allegedly you know at the time he's suspected of killing

four people in a horrifically bloody crime um you know with with a knife and you know while all of this is going on his phone shows he's watching all these ted bundy shows he's um doing these searches for serial killers you know serial killer after serial killer this is what the inspiring him with violent fantasies, right. Yeah, so it's like hanging out with family, playing games and eating vegan cookies, and then doing all this stuff on your phone, is that part of the compartmentalization? I think it's part of it, but I also think people are complex. I remember when he was sitting in the courtroom and people thought that his affect was very flat.

They were reading into that that he had no remorse, that he didn't care. emotional expression and demeanor is a very poor proxy for moral essence, right? Everyone experiences grief. They express grief differently because of culture, because of religion, because of who they are as a person and the experiences they've had. And I'm not suggesting that he felt grief. I'm not suggesting that he felt remorse in any way. I don't know.

I wasn't inside his head. But I think it's very tricky to start forecasting people's behavior or trying to get inside their head based on their demeanor. I don't think that always tells the whole story. She feels that maybe his lack of emotion is attributed to this autism diagnosis, the level one autism diagnosis that used to be referred to as Asperger's. What do you make of that? One of the cardinal features of people on the autistic spectrum is this difficulty relating to people, the social awkwardness, the difficulty with social reciprocity. So that in and of itself can look like someone who is cold, who's callous, who's remorseless, but it just may be that he's

on the spectrum, and this is a skill that he's deficient in. Well, it was an interesting read, and it'll be interesting to see if she speaks any more. You know, it is very sad because she she mentions how he had overcome so much, you know, the heroin addiction, which, you know, you have to applaud that. But then to overcome that, move out West and then walk into a courtroom, you know, years later and say, yes, I committed these crimes when asked by the judge. It's just it's very sad. It's sad for, it's a tragedy for all involved. It is. And I think that's really the true message of this story, which is that violent crime, not only affects the victims and their families, but it affects the family members. It affects

communities. It affects friends. It affects everyone. And I think that's really the message here, that violent crime touches so many different people in their lives and really ruins everything for people. It's really something that people struggle to come back from and rebuild their lives. No doubt. Dr. Daniel Bober, thank you so much. Thank you, Eugenet. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Janette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.