Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Child Killer Susan Smith’s Ex-Husband Speaks Out: 'You Can't Let Her Out'

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I want to tell the parole board you can't let her out. I mean, she, you know, she did it intentionally with malice and forethought, as they say in the courts. And 30 years is just not enough for justice for Michael and Alex. For her to come out of prison, any in the future would be an injustice to Michael and Alex.

Starting point is 00:00:37 David Smith, the ex-husband of Susan Smith, the South Carolina woman who drowned her two sons and tried to blame a black man, will fight against her release from prison. Smith and his wife are here to talk about why they believe Susan Smith should never be free again. Welcome to this special edition of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. It's been exactly 30 years since Susan Smith drowned her two young sons in a lake in South Carolina and then reported that a Black

Starting point is 00:01:05 man had carjacked her and taken her children. Michael was three and Alex was just 14 months old. These were two little boys who were helpless and completely dependent upon their parents. When Smith reported Michael and Alex missing, the story gripped the nation. They were two beautiful little boys believed to be kidnapped, the victims of a carjacking by a Black man in Union County, South Carolina. It was 1994, and it was a much simpler time. People weren't carrying cell phones with constant news updates coming to their phones. There was no TikTok. And Susan Smith seemed like a sympathetic figure on TV as she pleaded for the safe return of her sons.

Starting point is 00:01:46 Whoever has my children, that they please, I mean, please bring them home. The hope was that the carjacker would get to where he was going and leave the car and the boys in a place where they would be quickly discovered. The problem? It was all a lie. An ugly, despicable lie. There was no black man who took Susan Smith's car and her son's. I spoke with former solicitor Tommy Pope earlier this year about the case. I'd been a law enforcement officer before. I'd worked at the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. And so when I heard the carjacker story, it just didn't really jive. For nine days, Susan Smith kept up the charade. That entire time, Michael and Alex's father, David Smith, stood by her side defending her, despite reports that Susan had failed a polygraph and that her story was inconsistent.

Starting point is 00:02:40 You're going to hear from David Smith and his wife, Tiffany, in just a little bit. On November 3rd of 1994, Susan Smith finally confessed and her car was pulled from John D. Long Lake in Union County. Michael and Alex were still in their car seats in the back seat. In a confession, Smith wrote, I felt I couldn't be a good mom anymore, but I didn't want my children to grow up without a mom. I felt I had to end our lives to protect us all from any grief or harm. I had never felt so lonely and so sad in my entire life. I was in love with someone very much, but he didn't love me and never would. I had a very difficult time accepting that, but I had hurt him very much and I could see why he could never love me. Smith wrote that she actually thought about taking her own life and almost went down the ramp with the car, but she didn't. Smith was arrested and charged

Starting point is 00:03:30 with murdering Michael and Alex. Tommy Pope sought the death penalty. SLED agents and prosecutors believed Smith killed Michael and Alex, thinking a man she'd been involved with, Tom Finley, would want a relationship with her if she didn't have children. Finley had told Smith he wasn't interested in raising children. Slegg conducted a test and found that it would have taken six minutes for Smith's Mazda to sink into the lake, so she had time to rethink the decision she had made to try to save her boys, but she didn't. Susan Smith let her car sink with her sons inside. Smith was convicted of murdering Michael and Alex at her trial in 1995, but the jury opted against a death sentence and gave her a life sentence instead. Her lawyers claimed that she had had a psychotic break and that garnered

Starting point is 00:04:17 some sympathy for her because her stepfather had sexually abused her. Because of the way the law was written in the 90s, Smith is eligible for release after serving 30 years, and that 30 years will be up here in early November. A year ago, Susan Smith made headlines after it came out that she had a number of boyfriends messaging her and putting money on her prison commissary account. During her time behind bars, she's also been caught using drugs. She's had sexual relationships, including with two prison guards. She's lost phone and canteen privileges tablet privileges for 90 days after prison officials discovered she'd been talking with a documentary filmmaker who deposited money into her commissary account, according to Fox Carolina. The South Carolina Department of Corrections does not allow inmates to grant interviews. Fitz News reported that Susan Smith had promised to provide contact information for family members and for her ex-husband,

Starting point is 00:05:25 David Smith. 30 years later, David Smith is still grieving the loss of his young sons, Michael and Alex, whom he lovingly called Mike Mike and Fat Rat. The boys are forever three and 14 months old. The cases that I cover for you here show you just how scary the world can be. And one of the scariest things that can happen is if you ever get hurt. But I want you to know if you're ever seriously hurt or you're in an accident, your case could be worth millions. That's where our sponsor, Morgan & Morgan, comes in.

Starting point is 00:05:56 The firm has an army of more than 1,000 lawyers who will fight for what you deserve, and they have the track record to prove it. In the past few months, Morgan & Morgan has won some big verdicts like $12 million in Florida, $26 million in Philly, and $6.8 million in New York. All of those were much higher than the highest insurance company offer. Seeing if you have a case can be done in eight clicks or less, and you don't even have to leave your couch to start one. Also a really great thing, You only pay Morgan and Morgan. If you win, there are no upfront fees. So if you are hurt, you can easily start a claim at for the people.com slash crime fix. David Smith will oppose Susan Smith's release at her parole hearing next month. I spoke with David and his wife, Tiffany, and started by asking David how he's feeling as that November 20th parole hearing date approaches. A lot of anxiety, a lot of worrying. Yeah. It's taking an emotional toll

Starting point is 00:06:58 mentally, emotionally right now. Yeah, I can only imagine. You know, it's been just about 30 years, but still in so many ways, I'm sure it still feels like it was yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. You know, with the upcoming pro, it really has brought everything, just, you know, all the feelings, all the emotions. It has brought them all flooding back in. I'm just, I hate that there's even an opportunity that she might get paroled. You know, everyone says, oh, it won't happen or she won't get it. And I know probably not, at least not the first time.

Starting point is 00:07:56 But just knowing that there's a possibility, that scares me to death. You know, David, nobody probably knows her better than you do. You know, this is somebody you had two children with, your boys, Michael and Alex, and you trusted her. And she betrayed that trust in the most awful, terrible way and took your little boys from you. I mean, there have been news reports that she's reached out to you and asked you to not oppose her release. Is that true? That is not true. I have not had any contact with Susan whatsoever in nearly 30 years now. When was the last time you actually spoke to her? It was about a month after she confessed and was arrested. They let me go see her at the prison that she was being held at in Columbia, South Carolina. And I got to spend about an hour

Starting point is 00:09:04 with her. And that was the to spend about an hour with her. And that was the last time I've spoken to her. Did she ever offer any explanation, apology, any type of remorse to you as the father of the children, any type of anything. I asked Susan why she did it. And her reply was, I don't know why. That was the answer she gave me. She didn't go in, elaborate anymore. She just said, I don't know why I did it, but I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:09:42 And it wasn't even really a genuine heartfelt apology to me. Because I remember thinking at that time when we were having that, you know, one meeting that if I had done that to her, I would have been begging for her forgiveness, pleading for her to forgive me. But she was just very casual about it. I feel in my heart that she didn't really mean it. It didn't care. It was just, I don't know why I did it, but I'm sorry. And that was the best I got. As I mentioned earlier, for nine days, David Smith stood by Susan Smith, offering her support as law enforcement and focus was on finding micronautics and, you know, bringing them home. Nothing else mattered to me, you know, because I was hearing reports that she was failing polygraph tests, and I was trying to help her give her suggestions

Starting point is 00:11:08 on how to pass a polygraph because I just, you know, I believed her 100%. So I thought she was just failing these tests because she was going through trauma herself, you know, that Michael and Alex had been taken from her, and she was dealing with that and she wanted them back too, just as I did. And so I was just trying to help her pass polygraphs and I was trying to do anything humanly within my power to bring Michael and Alex back. That's all I was focused on. I didn't care about failed polygraphs. I think all these stories,

Starting point is 00:11:55 rumors that were going on, I didn't care. I just wanted Michael and Alex back. Now, you might think David Smith would find some comfort in the memories of the time he had with Michael and Alex. But sadly, he says that many of those memories have faded and vanished over the years. Well, first of all, unfortunately, I don that was my body's way of defending itself, that it would be too traumatic maybe for me to remember him at the time, but that eventually over time those memories would come back. But unfortunately they haven't. But I do know that Michael was very protective of Alex,

Starting point is 00:12:51 especially at like the daycare where they stayed. If someone would take a toy from Alex, Michael would get it back. He would get that toy back for Alex. Alex, he was more of you you kind of I would say like you rough-and-tumble little boy he loved to play a lot which Michael did too but Alex was different and he liked to just get in the floor and just roll around. Michael was a little more, I don't know the right word, but. Timid. Yes, timid.

Starting point is 00:13:32 If he fell down outside, he would wipe his knees off. He would wipe his hands off. He didn't like to be dirty. So, yeah, they were different in their own ways. He was. He was kind of held. He was more restrained. So, David, you've kind of, as a coping mechanism, blocked out your memories of your two boys because of the pain that you went through in losing them.

Starting point is 00:14:02 That's correct. And I wish so, so, so much I could have more memories of them. I mean, I really, honestly, I only have a few like snippets, snapshots of them in my head. And it's very few. All the three years with Michael and the, you know, 14 months without it, 15 months with Alex is just gone in my head. And I wish it would come back and maybe it will one day, but it hasn't yet. When Susan Smith killed Michael and Alex, she and David were separated, but he knew his current wife, Tiffany, at the time. She remembers watching The Search for Michael and Alex on TV. So, you know, I was just having to sit back from afar and get my information from the news. And,

Starting point is 00:14:57 you know, I think I talked to him on the phone a couple of times. What can I do? And it was just, you know, look for Michael and Alex. That was all. So, of course, I was glued to the TV anytime I could. It was just pure agony, you know, not being able to be there with him to help him through this. So I did, you know, the best thing I could do was just be on the lookout to try to find them. After Michael and Alex were found, Tiffany remembers watching David go through the pain of grieving the boys. It's a pain that has never gone away. So in the beginning, it was very, very hard. Those were what we call it the dark years. He liked to sleep a lot. He didn um, you know, didn't want to go out and do anything. Um, so I would, I would try to get him, you know, encourage him to get

Starting point is 00:15:53 out of bed. Let's go, you know, let's go do something. Um, and then it finally took me, I just had to, you know, leave him alone, let him do what he needs to do in order to grieve. If that meant let him sleep all day, then that's what he did. Or if it was just sitting there in quiet with him, then that's what we did. And then, you know, as the years went by, it's gotten a little easier. And then when our, you know, Savannah was born, our daughter, it was like he was meant to be a father. You know, he was supposed to be a father. And once she came along, he was able to let that out again, you know, because he where he had gotten that taken away from him. He was able to show how good at being a father he was.

Starting point is 00:16:55 And, you know, he he took her in and the day she was born, he took her in his arms and told her how much he loved her and how much he was going to protect her. And he has. She's 23 now and she has had a very good father. So, David, was it hard for you to, you know, have children again? Was that difficult coming to that decision? Oh, after Michael and Alex died, I didn't ever want to have children again. I had no intention of having any more.

Starting point is 00:17:40 I was afraid. I was scared that even if the child would die, like say a crib death, for any reason whatsoever, I knew that I was not strong enough to bury another child. I knew I wouldn't make it through another one, so I had no plans on having any more children. But then, like she said, when Savannah came along, it's like my life just lit up again. And all that love that I had built up or was going to give it to Michael and Alex, I was able to give it to her. It was a wonderful gift.

Starting point is 00:18:35 I think God knew what he was doing by giving us a girl. I've always said that, that he didn't give him a boy that first time because, you know, it might it would be too painful, maybe. So giving him a girl gave him a different perspective on it. It's hard in some ways to believe that 30 years have passed since Michael and Alex were killed. David Smith knows it will be difficult to be in the same room as Susan Smith as he speaks against her possible release next month. No, I do not want Susan to be released. I don't know what I'm going to even say to the parole board other than I don't want to release. But more than that, I don't know. I know I'm just going to speak from the heart and, you know, just remind them of, most of most importantly, the lives that she took, but also the lives that she changed forever.

Starting point is 00:19:50 All the people that, all the family that, you know, she changed. I don't know if it's the right way to put it, but history for like my life, the way my life's supposed to go. She changed all that. And I just, I want to tell the parole board, you can't let her out. I mean, she, you know, she did it intentionally with malice and forethought, as they say in the courts and 30 years is just not enough for justice for Michael and Alex. For her to come out of prison, any in the future would be an injustice to Michael and Alex. She needs to stay in there until she dies of natural cause or whatever. But she needs to stay there for the rest of her natural life. I asked David Smith whether he was surprised by the recent news that Susan Smith had been talking with a documentary filmmaker and that Susan had said she would put the filmmaker in touch with him.

Starting point is 00:21:06 No, not at all. It's always been all about her. Always. And when I say always, I'm starting from the time I met her. When we were dating, when we were married. It's always been about Susan. You know, she tried to play the victim after she was convicted. She still was trying to portray that because of her upbringing, you know, her father's suicide, being molested. And I'm not making light of any of that. I know that's a terrible thing. But you don't kill your kids because of that. You know, whatever happens in your past,

Starting point is 00:21:57 it doesn't give you the right to kill your kids. But Susan's, it's always about Susan. She tries to, she's, what's the word when people want all the attention? What do they call those kind of people? Narcissist. Yeah. She's, she's very much a narcissistic person. She's, she's going to make it about her any way she can. She's, in all the trouble that she gets in prison. She shows that it's still all about her.

Starting point is 00:22:31 She's not going to, to me, she's not going to change. Members of the public can write to the parole board through its website to voice opinions on Susan Smith's possible release. I would be honored if they would do that, if they would express their feelings to the parole board about her being released. You know, so many people have come up to me more so now, but even through the nearly 30 years, you know, have come up to me not realizing that she'd be eligible for parole one day. They thought she was in prison and was going to stay there for the rest of her life.

Starting point is 00:23:16 And even at her trials, the prosecution wasn't allowed to tell the jury that, that, you know, it would be 30 years to life. The jurors thought that when they gave her life, they thought at that time that she was going away for the rest of her natural life. They didn't. And some of the jurors came out after the trial and said if they had known that, they probably would have took a different path, would have made a different decision. But they didn't, they weren't allowed to be told that, they didn't know it. But yes, I would be, it would be an honor for me, to me, if anyone would express their feelings,

Starting point is 00:24:07 their opinions about her being released and that she needs to stay where she's at. I'd be honored for them to do that. And I'm sure it's going to be really hard, though, for you to be in the same room with her during this hearing. It's going to be very difficult. That's alongside of the possibility of her possibly being released. That is the next fear that I have is having to see her again, even look at her. you know some have asked me you know what are you going to say to her I don't know right now at this point I don't know part of me wants to tell her what she has done to my life and how she destroyed my world at that time. But honestly, I don't think she cares. I really don't.

Starting point is 00:25:12 I don't think she cares what she's done to me or anyone else. As I said, it's all about Susan. Tiffany, do you have an idea, if you are allowed to speak, what you will say? It's going to have to come from the heart and and explain to them you know how how it has changed his life and and in effect it has changed my life and our children our child's life and you know on on down the line because it has it has drastically changed everybody's life it's like there's so much that we would want to say and say directly to her, but that it's so much it's hard to right now say what specifically we would say. In the end, David Smith wants people to remember what truly matters in this case, his two young sons. I would just like to reemphasize that for people to remember who the victims were,

Starting point is 00:26:12 it sure wasn't Susan or isn't Susan. And I know, I guess people look at me as a victim, and I can see that in a way, but still, I'm more about Michael and Alex. I want people to remember that she took those little boys' lives and just think of them and the ultimate price that they had to pay because of her actions. You know, life is one of the greatest gifts that we're given. And she took those away and she had no right to do that.

Starting point is 00:26:54 So I just would like the public to not, when they think about Michael and Alex and all the story and all the events, I want them to smile, though, when they see a picture of Michael and Alex or something. Not be sad. Smile. They were beautiful little boys who had a whole life ahead of them. And just smile for them. Don't be sad. You know, they were just little boys that will forever be 3 and 14 months old to us.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Even though Michael's birthday just passed and he would have been 33, Alex would have been 31 on his birthday in August. But to us, they're still 3 and 14 months old. But they lost that opportunity to grow up, you know, to go to school, to graduate. To build their life. You know, have the family of their own. And, you know, thinking of them at the age that they would be if they were still with us, you know, they possibly would have their own families by now. And it just, it breaks my heart to think about all that they lost. It is heartbreaking and it's, it shouldn't have been that way. And I'm so sorry, David, for your loss. And I know my prayers are with you and you too, Tiffany. Thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:28:29 Thank you. Thank you. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Child Killer Susan Smith’s Ex-Husband Speaks Out: 'You Can't Let Her Out'

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Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Child Killer Susan Smith’s Ex-Husband Speaks Out: 'You Can't Let Her Out'

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