Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Dark New Details Uncovered in Sheriff Mickey Stines Judge Killing

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Shawn "Mickey" Stines faces a murder charge in the death of his former boss and longtime friend, Judge Kevin Mullins, in Letcher County, Kentucky. He's been held without bail. But now Stines is asking a judge to grant him bail and at a recent hearing, his aunt testified about his bizarre behavior in the 24 hours leading up to the shooting. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy goes through Sherry Stines' testimony and talks with Stines' lawyers in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guests: Jeremy and Kerri Bartley https://x.com/JeremyBartley8Dave Aronberg https://x.com/aronbergCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Yeah, he was paranoid. He thought somebody was going to be around his house and, you know, like, I guess, do something, bother something. Mickey Steins' aunt detailing his bizarre behavior in the days before he shot a judge in his chambers. He had to describe how he acted in one word. What was he said? One word, he was kind of psychotic. Could the testimony help the sheriff charge him? with murder, get out of jail. His lawyers are here to tell all in an exclusive interview. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Ann Janette Levy. When former Latcher County Sheriff Sean Mickey Steins pulled out

his service weapon and shot his friend, Judge Kevin Mullins, it shocked the people who knew both men, and it also shocked the nation. The shooting was recorded by surveillance cameras in Judge Mullins's chambers. There's no audio, but obviously there's video. This case is not a whodunit. I've told you that before. It's a why did he do it? Theories have circulated that Steins was under immense pressure and stress because he had been deposed in a civil lawsuit filed against him

and his sheriff's office by a woman named Sabrina Atkins, who said one of Steins' deputies helped her get out of jail on GPS monitoring in exchange for sexual favors. There's been speculation that Judge Mullins was involved with women having sex in exchange for favorable treatment in court because Fields and Atkins had sex in Mullins's chambers. Fields pleaded guilty to felony charges of rape and sodomy and tampering with a monitoring device related to Atkins in January of 2024. Judge Mullins was never accused of any crime related to those claims when he was alive. I want to be clear about that. Mickey Steins' mental well-being

at the time of the shooting has been called into question given some of what he said, following the shooting. people here. We don't want to. I mean, there's people in that room. There's people in that room. We can't do that. So what's the problem? I'll get another one. I'll put one on me. You won't take it. Okay?

But I can't be in the room. Come on. Mickey. Come on. Is there somebody that you trust other than us that you prefer to be with us? Mickey, I'm going to clean up with our whole lives. I have no reason. Come on now, guys.

Miki. You have to go. You have to be moved. You have to be moved. some point you get two body cameras. We're not safe. Would you have a trial? Would you talk to us in the jail down there?

Do you feel safe down there because there's cameras everywhere? Are you going to move me after the interview? They have the losses of house about that. I don't know how to have this work. Mickey Steins has been in jail facing a murder charge in the death of his friend, Judge Mullins. He's pleaded not guilty and plans to present an insanity defense while also arguing. he was experiencing an extreme emotional disturbance at the time of the shooting. Steins has been held without bail, but now his lawyers are asking that he be released on bail

and to show that he should be granted bail the Bartley's called Steins' aunt to the stand to testify about what was going on with him the night before the shooting. Sherry Steins said she's known Mickey since he was born. Do you know Sean Mickey Stans? Yes. What do you call him? I call him Bubby. Bubby, okay.

Yes, he's biologically my nephew, but my mother and father raised him. Well, that was my next question. What's your relationship to him? Yes. You're his aunt. Is that correct? Yes. All right.

Now, how close the relationship do you have with Mickey now? Very close. And has it always been close? Yes. Okay. How much older than Mickey are you? I'm 62. He's getting ready to be 45.

Sherry Steins and Mickey, Bubby, are tight. There's no doubt about it. So the night before he shot Judge Mullins, he showed up at her house. Aunt Sherry said he was acting really oddly. I want to ask you about the day, September 18th of 2024. Do you recall the events of that day? Yes, they stayed all right with me. Okay.

And you said that's the day, sat all night with you. So you saw Mickey that day. Is that right? Yes. And what's, no, I'm not. time that day did you see Mickey? It was late in the day when he came by the house. It wasn't dark, but you know it was later in the day. Okay. And when he showed up to your house, did you know he was going to stay the night

with you? Yes, he don't. Was it common for Mickey to spend the night with you? No. Why was he going to stay the night with you that night? I think it was going to be just to let his wife and daughter rest where he had been such a nervous wreck and letting sleep on. Okay. So, so. You said he was going to let his wife and daughter rest. Now tell me, why couldn't they rest? Because he couldn't sleep and he was walking the floors. I guess he was aggravating them, you know.

Okay. Now, did you talk to his wife or his daughter about that at all? No, not that night. He was at the house, so I didn't. I tried not to get in that. He came to your house. He called you before and said, I'm coming over? I can't remember if he called and said he was coming or not,

but he knew he could come anytime he wanted. it's like his second home. Okay, so you said he came by later that evening. Yeah. And when he came by did he bring anything with him? He brought a bag and in it he had those little tuna creations and it turned out it was like melatonin gummies and some over-the-counter binadryl. And did he have anything to say about why he had benedril or melatonin gums? Well he had been slid, he had been slid. been sleeping and it's like he hadn't sleep in seven days and nights and he had went to the doctor and they had told him to take the Benadryl and the melatonin to help him rest. When I'm assuming it was that day or the day before it was it was very close.

So he had gone pretty close in time to when he had. You don't know for sure the day. Yeah. Okay. recommended to him to take melatonin and benadryl, try to get some sort. Over the county. Okay. And when he got to your house, what did y'all do first?

We just basically sit around and watch TV. I went in and I fixed us a little bit of supper. He didn't eat a lot. Mickey Steins' Aunt Sherry said there was no question that something was very off with her nephew, Bubby. He was real fidgety, welcome from one door to the next. It's kept getting later and I take oxygen at night. So I sat in my recliner at night and take my oxygen.

So I give him a bed in my house, have extra bedroom, told him to go lay down. He goes in, he lays down for a few minutes. And then before I know it, he's right back in the living room with me. And he's carrying a pillow. And I said, baby, can't you sleep? No, no, I just can't. And he would take like,

Melatonin and Benadryl sit there, get his phone in his hand. And he was watching his security cameras, watching around his house. So he was watching the security cameras at his house? Around his house, yeah. At his house. Okay. And you said, let me go back to the melatonin and Benadryl. So you take melatonin and a Benadryl.

Do you take that at the same time? Yes. Do you know what kind of Benadryl or Melatonin it was? How many milligrams, anything like that? I don't know, but I've still got them at home in the bag. in the bag he had them in. Okay. So about how many, if you had to guess, or if you know, I don't guess, if you know, how many melatonin, how many benadryl did Nicky take that note? I'd say about three to four binadryl and about the same with the melatonin gummies.

And did those seem to have any effect on him at all? No. And so did he sleep? No. You said he was on his phone looking at the security cameras. And he was looking at the area around his house. Yes. Did he have concerns about what was going on around his house? Oh yeah, he was paranoid. He thought somebody was going to be around his house and, you know, like, I guess, do something, bother something.

What was he concerned about in terms of someone being at his house? He was worried about Lowa and Carolina, his wife and daughter. He's worried about his wife and daughter. Did you say anything at all? Did you get any indication of wife? he would be worried about his wife and daughter. No, but I knew he was under a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. Did he mention that there had been any specific threats to him?

Nothing specific, but I just, you know, you could tell the way he acted it was bad. He was horrified. He was scared to death. Steins's Aunt Sherry said her nephew's odd behavior continued. continued throughout the night. Okay, so you said you were up all night with him. Yes. Okay? And at any point did he go anywhere?

No, but he did try to get me. The daughter, I'm right, my mother adopted a child, and at the time she'd been at the doctor's office, had a headache passed out during MRI she was in the bed. Well, Mickey at one point tried to get me to ride up by his house just to check around his house and make sure it was all right. And he wanted me to leave her in the bed. But it knows Mickey knows Mickey.

Would I never suggest if you leave a junior in high school in the bed by itself and it dark outside to go check around somebody's house? He wanted you to go with him to check on his home. Yes, his home. Had there been something that made him? want to go out there? There was a guy walking down the back street behind his house and you can see his legs and he was just walking down the alleyway but it was enough to freak him out. What did he think was going to happen if you know?

If I, just my opinion I think he thought they was going to like circle around by his house. And do what? I don't know. He said he was concerned about Carolina and Lila. And what was it about Caroline and Lila? Did he mention anything specific to them when he was afraid of? She's just afraid somebody was going to hurt him. Aunt Sherry said the way her nephew was acting was definitely not the Mickey Stein she knew. You familiar with this normal behavior? Yeah. What's Mickey like normal? He's a jokester. He likes the life play. He helps people a lot. He's a good guy. hyperactive. He goes out and does stuff without you happen to beg him to do it, you know, or asking, he sees you need help, he'll help you.

Was his behavior that night consistent with his normal behavior? No. Then the next day, the day that Mickey Stein shot Judge Mullins, Sherry Stein said she got a FaceTime call from Mickey right before the shooting. And is that about the correct time that you recall him, FaceTime? On that FaceTime call, What did Mickey say? Well, like I said, my mother and daddy raised him.

So he had a name for my mother. He called her Mommy Bones. Mommy Bones? Mommy Bones. Okay. And he called me and he said, Sherry, and I said, boy, he said, let me speak to Bones. So he called him mommy. Did you let him speak to Bones?

She'd been dead two and a half years. And I said, what? And he said, let me speak to Bones. I said, Bovey, where are you at? Are you at the office? He said, why don't we call you back? I got a bad connection. I said, well, okay, call me back.

He said, love you about. And that's the last time I talked to me. That's the last time I talked to me. That's the last time I talked to me. Did you find that call concerning? Yes. Why? He asked for my mother twice.

He was with me when I had to and hit my mother from the ventilator. So he knew she was gone. He was, he was, me and him together had to unplug it. So he knew she was gone. Again, has Necky ever acted this way in the past? No. Did you eventually find out what happened in the courthouse that night?

Yes. When did you find out? It took about, until I found out for sure about half an hour. What was your reaction to that news? My knees got kind of weak and my mouth fell open. And I cried by eyes up. Is that something that you could ever imagine that Mickey would do? Never in a million years.

Would I have ever felt that Mickey would even destroy his gun? Let alone do something like that. Steins' family will take him in if he has granted bail. Meanwhile, the prosecutors for the Commonwealth of Kentucky opposed Mickey Steins' request for bail, and they question Sherry Steins' actions the day that Judge Mullins was The next morning when you got this phone call, you didn't call anybody, you didn't call it but the Sheriff's Department, did you, say, hey, something wrong with Mickey? Is he there? No.

Did you? And you didn't call his wife that day either, did you say, Mickey's not acting right? He asked about bones. Is something going on him? Nicky didn't call her either, did you? No. When he called Ness for my mother, that was right before it happened, so I didn't have time to call anybody. I think you said you had 30 minutes where you realized what it happens. And that 30-minute window, you realized what happened you didn't call anybody it had already happened right but you didn't know no okay so you never called anybody between that time the time you found out no and you've spoken very highly of mr steins but my understanding is that he's concerned for his wife and daughter

is that right mm-hmm and he left him home along with your house that what you're saying he didn't stay in the driveway i mean they were upset because he's walking around and keep them up. He didn't go to the driveway and set the car, did he? I don't know if he did that or not. He left him to your house, correct? Yeah, he did come to my house, but I don't know what he did before that. Okay. And what time do you say he showed up at your house? I don't know exactly. I didn't think it was going to be important at the time, so at the time I didn't notice. So to talk a little bit more about this testimony, I want to bring in Mickey Steins's defense team, Jeremy and Carrie Bartley of Bartley Law. Thanks so much. It's been a while since we've talked.

First of all, I'd like to ask both of you. And Carrie, I know you handled Aunt Sherry's testimony. How do you think this is going to play with Judge Coran? Do you think that maybe Aunt Sherry's testimony is going to show that Mickey maybe is undergoing some treatment, is getting some medication in jail, and he'll be able to behave while out on bond. You know, we're hopeful that the judge will see it the way that we see it and have heard the evidence and we'll set a reasonable bond. We can never guess what a judge is going to do. But I do think that the testimony from Mickey's Aunt Sherry

really showed us and to back up the Commonwealth's burden is to put on proof that this is not available offense if they do not want him out on bond. I think we overcame that with Aunt Sherry's testimony just by seeing that Mickey was operating in some sort of altered mental state. And at this point, we don't know exactly what that looks like. But we do know that from Aunt Sherry's testimony, he was paranoid, he was having delusions, he was having sleepless nights, he was in fear for his family. And, you know, her testimony, she didn't know exactly.

what was going on. But she did say that Mickey had seen a doctor for those issues earlier that day, and it's something he'd been dealing with. So we're hopeful that the judge will see it from that perspective and find that Mickey is in fact entitled to bail that this is not a capital offense and set a reasonable bond for him. You know, Jeremy, I know that when we've talked in the past, you had confirmed that Mickey at the time that he shot Judge Mullins, which is not in question here, was in fear that his wife and daughter had been taken. Can you give us any more information at this time about why he felt that way? Well, I think one of the first things that I want to make a distinction pretty clear. So when I say this is not a whodunit, I think that really that's a misnomer in some ways,

because we know that the body of Mickey Stein's in the physical form was certainly on a video and certainly firing a weapon. The question is not the body. The question in this case is the mind. and we think that based upon a lot of different evidence that we won't comment on directly today, we will only comment on what you've seen as it's illustrated through Aunt Sherry's testimony, since that is a matter of public record. But the issue is not, was that the body of Mickey Stein's?

The question is what was within? the mind of Mickey Stein. And I think that that's the question that will have to be answered ultimately in this case. Now, we have made no secret that we believe that Mr. Steins was under the belief that his wife and daughter were in danger. If you review the body cam footage that I believe I've seen on, you're reporting as well as many other outlets. I'm not sure how you couldn't see that real fear in his eyes and his mannerisms. And there's videos prior to the shooting that provide a backdrop and show that same fear

that Aunt Sherry described. And so while we know that the body of Mickey Steins is on a video and we know that that shooting occurred at the hands of Mickey Steins, we don't think that Mickey Stein's mind and soul committed this crime. And again, his mind is what we're trying to determine whether he, he's responsible for that or not. And we think Aunt Sherry's testimony is just a small glimpse into the overwhelming evidence that will demonstrate

that Mickey was not acting within his own ability to understand and appreciate the nature of his actions or to control and conform his actions, which will be the standard will be discussed at trial. As to any of the rulings that are pending for the court, you know, we don't want to comment on what may happen with the judge or speculate or what may be ruled upon. And regardless of what the ruling is, we will certainly respect it and remain steadfast in our defense. I want to go back to what Aunt Sherry was talking about.

She said that Mickey had gone to the doctor. Obviously, he knew something was not right. He hadn't slept for a week. He was given melatonin and Benadryl. Carrie, have you guys been able to find out? I mean, was he misdiagnosed? I mean, he was told, oh, you can't sleep, melatonin and Benadryl. But was there something going on that was, you know,

was there some type of mental episode? going on. We've read in other documents that there was indeed, according to some jail staff who assessed him and some other people, that they believed there was something very wrong mentally with him at the time. We absolutely believe that there was something going on with Mickey for the days and weeks leading up to this incident. He went to the doctor to have his sleeplessness to have those issues addressed. It seems that he was accompanied by some members of his staff there when he went to the doctor and they actually went into the examination room with him.

So I think that as a public official and with the stigma that surrounds mental health, still especially in areas like eastern Kentucky, I think it would be difficult for anyone, particularly a public official to potentially be completely transparent about everything that, you know, was going on with him at the time. So with the sleeplessness, it seems that the doctor recommended that he take melatonin and benedril and try to get some sleep. But what we know for Mansheri's testimony is that these issues had been going on long before he took the melatonin and benedril that evening. And in fact, it seems that the melatonin and Benadryl, she testified that he had taken several of each over the course of the evening, and it didn't even touch what was going on with Mickey. He was

still unable to sleep. So bizarre. I think that's really important, though. This is a really important aspect that's not talked about is the stigma surrounding mental health and the reluctance of particularly men to seek mental health treatment. And that's something that is even more acute. Karen and I both grew up in Easter Kentucky. And we know that the stigma of mental health issues is so real. And we understand that the mental health defense and insanity defense is something that the general public is just really starting to wrap an understanding around, but it's very real. And this case not only speaks to how physicians, how law enforcement, how people in general struggle not only to identify issues with themselves, but with others

and those around them, because you can see and we'll see from the witnesses that everybody agrees. If you look at the, if you look at the civil complaint filed in the wrongful death case, the estate of Mullins itself alleges that everyone basically knew something was going on, but no one did something, but they did do something. What else do you do other than demand he goes see a physician? Now, I agree that I agree that was there a diagnosis that was missed the day prior to the shooting? Sure. I also believe that I'm not making excuses or anything else for the physician that saw him,

but it's difficult in a 15-minute interview to ascertain, especially when there's other people in the room and you're a public official, like Kerry said, to get a full picture. But I think everybody that came in contact with Nikki in the at least seven days prior, maybe a little bit longer agrees that he was in a crisis, a mental health crisis. But, you know, we've only in the last decade started to really get serious about understanding mental health and its impact. And that's a bias that we will have to face all throughout the, this trial, no matter where we have the trial, is we are on the very beginning stages of

understanding the intersection between mental health and the law and responsibility. However, I will say that we believe this is potentially the most well-documented prior history between videos, between medical officials that saw Mr. Steins. We believe it's one of the most well-documented cases of a mental disease in action. And we believe, again, that will be the issue at this trial. Yeah, and I'll just add this. I believe that, you know, it's important to understand that Aunt Sherry's testimony. testimony is only one piece of the puzzle. It's only one part that's part of the public record at

this time. But yeah, I think it's important to note that, you know, when this gets it to trial, there will be multiple, multiple witnesses who will be able to testify that in the days leading up, days and weeks leading up to this incident that, you know, they witnessed, they saw Mickey Stein's, all the mental state that he was in and had concerns about the state that he was in. And we believe that this case is about a very real fear that Mickey Stein's perceived. And what is in his mind is our focus in this case. And we look forward to presenting that evidence. And we look forward to presiding the defense of Mr. Stein's,

whenever and wherever that trial is held. You said perceived fear. So was it a real fear, a fear that actually existed? Well, I think you've got three options. My focus is what Mr. Steins believed at the time. If you look at extreme emotional disturbance, that's the only relevant perspective is what Mr. Steins believed. As to the insanity defense, I believe that's the same.

as well. What was going on in the mind of Mickey Steins? I believe there's three potential interpretations of this case. I think that on the one hand, we could believe that this is solely within the mind of Mr. Steins that there were no external threats. That's one potential interpretation of what's going on here. On the other hand, on the other end of the spectrum, you could look and say, no, he was completely understanding and perceiving real objective threats and that they were made and that they were out there. What I think is probably closest to the truth is somewhere in the middle. Were there reasons to believe that there were threats to Mickey and his family?

do we believe that his mental illness impacted his ability to deal with those threats, certainly. But while our focus is, again, on what Mr. Steins believed, you know, there is an intersection sometimes between objective reality and subjective, and I believe it was Mel Gibson in conspiracy theory, the movie conspiracy theory, where the concept was explored about you can be both paranoid and there can also be somebody chasing. And I think that's most closely what we see going on here. But again, our focus is not as much as what is going on outside of Mr. Stein's mind at the but what was going on inside.

That's her focus. How is Mickey doing right now? Aunt Sherry said he looks bad, but she said she's been in communication with him. So how is he actually doing? Mickey has gone from being a celebrated public official to being a man who has had everything stripped away. And he is certainly suffering the effects of that. his health isn't perfect, his mental state, I think, you know, has suffered just simply from

going from having everything to having nothing. And so, you know, what you see, I believe, is what Aunt Sherry said, he looks bad. He's a broken man right now. Well, Jeremy and Carrie Bartley, I appreciate you coming on with us and talking with us. I know it's been a while. Thank you so much. Thank you. I want to turn now to Dave Aaronberg. He is the former state attorney for Palm Beach County, now a criminal defense attorney. He switched sides. So Dave, I want to know what you think about Aunt Sherry's testimony about Mickey Stein's behavior on the night before he shot Kevin Mullins. I mean, basically she's saying he was a hot mass. He was.

paranoid. She described him as acting psychotic and all of this stuff. Yeah. And Jeanette, the aunt's testimony is designed here by the defense that lay a factual foundation to get an insanity instruction before a jury. So to try to get someone acquitted by reason of insanity, you have to show that they have an established medical condition and they didn't know the difference between right and wrong. Very difficult to prove, especially when the sheriff went into the secret chambers, like the hidden private chambers, away from the public to execute the judge. That shows premeditation. That shows that he knew what he was doing was a crime. If he really were totally insane and didn't know the difference between right and wrong, he would

have shot him out in public and not led him in the back where there'd be no witness. is. So I think insanity will be very difficult to prove. I don't think he's going to get that kind of verdict where he's not guilty by reason of insanity, but he could get a lesser verdict, lesser conviction of manslaughter showing extreme emotional distress. So I think that's really the more realistic play. Well, and they put it, and that's what they're going to go for. I mean, this is kind of like a two-pronged defense that could be going on here. The the insanity defense coupled with extreme emotional distress because the Bartleys who are representing Mickey Steins have said that he believed his wife and daughter when he did this had been taken. And that's what he feared

when he pulled that trigger. I mean, that's not in dispute here. It is not in dispute. This is not a whodunit. So it's all on video. But he believed his wife and daughter had been taken. And then you've got this weird behavior, you know, Aunt Sherry. is saying, I mean, he's looking at cameras all night, keeping her up, you know, she's trying to sleep with her oxygen on. And he's just acting like a mess and facetiming her, like right before this happens, asking to speak to, you know, mommy bones, like who's been dead for two and a half years. I mean, all of that is very much like, I mean, there was something going on with him. I mean, it sounds like mental illness. And I don't understand why a doctor is telling him to take

melatonin gummies in Benadryl. when he's obviously there's something mental, yeah, it sounds like mental illness going on here. That doctor works both ways, Anjanet. It helps him in establishing extreme emotional distress or even insanity by showing that he went to a doctor right before this to get help with his mental condition. It helps him when his aunt says that he hadn't slept in a week. It helps him when she says he was intensely paranoid. He was obsessively monitoring his home security cameras all night. and he was someone who didn't sleep and was pacing and just totally erratic.

But where it helps the prosecution is that the doctor who saw him sent him home, just gave some gummies, some Benadryl and sent him home. If the doctor really thought that he was mentally ill, he probably would have treated him more seriously than say take some gummies and go home. And maybe that maybe the doctor too wasn't equipped to make the diagnosis. is that a possibility? Oh, yeah. I mean, usually we have an area that doesn't have the access to health care that a lot of other places do. It can be seen somewhat of a health care desert. And so they're fortunate to have any medical professionals in those rural areas,

but I'm not sure of the level of knowledge of some of them who may not be equipped, may not be equipped to identify mental illness. And that's not to throw shade. But, you know, these are very, very individualized determinations and it takes expertise. And if you're not used to dealing with that specialty, then yeah, you could just say, take some gummies and call me in the morning. They put Aunt Sherry up, though, in an effort to get bail. And so, you know, Mickey's, he's not eligible for bail right now. But they put Aunt Sherry up there to basically say, look, he looks bad right now, but now he's acting better.

He's not acting like he was back when this happened. He's got a place to stay. He can stay with me. He can stay with Lila and her mom, Mickey's wife. I mean, nobody's going to turn him away. They love him. What do you think the chances are that they will give? Mickey bail and say, okay, strict conditions, GPS monitor, he has to stay at home, but he can be at home

with his family. He has no criminal record before this. He was a beloved sheriff. Do you think that they will give Mickey maybe a high bail and let him go home with restrictions? They could, but the more they talk about mental illness and his erratic behavior, the less likely it is that he'll get bail. And the reason is that it works against the, see, the one side works against the other. You can help prime the pump for an insanity defense and extreme emotional disturbance defense. But the more you do that, the more you're telling the judge that, yeah, he's cray. And that would mean that if he is erratic and volatile and mentally ill, then he is a threat to the community. And he should not be released on bail. And the fact that he's going to stay with his aunt who at night

has a thing around her mouth for oxygen, it's not like she's going to stop him from leaving. If he is erratic and volatile and mentally ill, he's also someone who knows his way around the community and knows guns very well. I think that prosecutors have a legitimate argument that he is a danger to the community. And so it's interesting. It's like, you know, they, they work hard on one side to say he's erratic, volatile, and insane, that works against them on the other side when they're also saying, let him free. It'll be interesting to see what the judge decides on this bail issue. Dave Aaronberg, thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Ingenit. The Commonwealth, in this case, has filed a motion for a change of venue. The defense is opposing that motion. We'll

let you know what happens with it. A decision on whether Mickey Stein's will be granted bail has yet to be made. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Leby. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.