Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Fake Pregnancy Scam Artist Pleads GUILTY!

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

Laura Owens, the woman who claimed she was pregnant with the twins of "The Bachelor" contestant Clayton Echard, has pleaded guilty to felony charges related to the case. Owens admitted to usi...ng another woman's ultrasound to try to convince Echard and another Arizona man, that she was carrying their twins. Owens had long maintained she was actually pregnant. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy looks a the dramatic turn the case has taken in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Right now you can get a free 14-day trial of Odoo’s all-in-one business solution to give your business the cutting edge! Check it out at https://odoo.com/crimefix. Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest: Gregg WoodnickCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Van DinhGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 How do you plead to count six perjury, a class four non-dangerous felony committed to honor about June 10th of 2024. Guilty or not guilty? Guilty. Years after Laura Owens claimed she was pregnant with the bachelor's babies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the Bachelor! The Arizona woman admits that it was all a lie. So it's the first time that we've seen Laura take any accountability in this matter. I'm going through everything, including the drama behind closed doors right before.
Starting point is 00:00:30 Laura Owens entered the plea. I'm Ann Chinette Levy, and this is crime fix. For years, Laura Owens has claimed that she has been pregnant with twins. Owens has made these claims not only in text messages to at least three men, but she's also made the claims in court documents on social media and podcasts and even on the witness stand. And despite the men saying Laura wasn't pregnant, and in the case of Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd, who said there was no way Laura could be pregnant with his babies because they'd never had sex, Laura Owens didn't let up. There were ultrasound images. There were claims of forced abortions. But now, Laura Owens has finally admitted that it was all a lie, a scam. I've been telling you about Laura Owens for nearly a year now, but the story has been out there
Starting point is 00:01:26 far longer than that. Laura Owens is the daughter of San Francisco talk radio legend Ron Owens and his wife publics Jan Black. Laura is an accomplished equestrian. Laura is an accomplished equestrian and she also hosted a podcast with her mother. But according to Clayton Eckert and his attorney Greg Woodnick, who will join me very shortly, Laura Owens is a skilled liar and manipulator, who also has some mad Photoshop skills. For Clayton Eckert,
Starting point is 00:01:52 the trouble started back in 2023 when he met up with Laura Owens, who reached out to him on LinkedIn after he'd become a licensed real estate agent. Last I was excited. I got my license right, you know, just prior to that point. And I thought, here's my first client. And I'm getting a client. of my time on TV. So I sent her my information and she was very flirty out the gate, but I was like, look, that's fine. I can keep a professional. And I did until there was a night where I took, or I'd gotten high. I had smoked a little bit. And while I was high, she was texting me and it was
Starting point is 00:02:31 innocent at first. And then she sent a provocative photo. And I, in that state of mind, I said, you know, come over, and so she did. And, you know, we engaged sexually that night. You know, we did not have sexual intercourse, which is important to state. But we did do some other things. And ultimately, she wanted me to date her from that point. And I told her no and that that was a one-time thing. And she grew agitated. And then after she couldn't take no for an answer that I wasn't going to date her, she decided to say she was pregnant 11 days later. Laura Owens was not pregnant. She filed a paternity suit against Clayton Eckert and then Clayton sued Laura Owens. Owens lied on the stand about being pregnant, claiming this video, showed her pregnant belly. In 2025, Owens was indicted on multiple felony counts, including perjury, months after police raided the home where she lived with her parents. This is so inappropriate. I mean, you guys, where are you guys? My dad is a handicraft. You know what I can see my dad? I can't.
Starting point is 00:03:35 My dad can't... I want to see my dad who is handicapped. I'm sorry. He can't stand up. You guys, he's gonna fall. He can't stand. Please, you're hurting me! You are hurt.
Starting point is 00:03:50 No, you weren't. You are hurting me. I want to see my dad. Yeah, that's what I want. I want to see my father. You are hurting me. You are hurting me. And there's gone to be a report for what you have done.
Starting point is 00:04:04 I guarantee you. I guarantee you, I will have bruises from this. I guarantee you, I will. I'd like to see my father, please. You just saw it. No, I don't know where my mom is. Don't let me put you in handcuffs. Just cooperate.
Starting point is 00:04:16 Come on. I'm just so. These people are horrible. They're just too, Mikey. 4-6-8. There's going to be a report to the county. You guys realize that, right? This is before 7 o'clock in the morning.
Starting point is 00:05:00 The case appeared to be heading to trial after Laura Owen, went through a few attorneys, but then came rumblings about a possible plea deal. And on Friday, August 28th, Laura Owens admitted that her years-long tale of being pregnant with twins by two men in Arizona was a lie. Is CR 2025-007905 State versus Laura Owens, time set for a settlement conference. Can I get appearances, please? Good afternoon, Your Honor. Ed Lyre on behalf of State. Afternoon, Judge, Christian leaders, in behalf of Laura Owens, who's present with me, at the defense table. All right. Good afternoon. And Ms. Owens, can get your name and date of birth, please? Laura, Michelle Owens. Ms. Owens, I've been handed a plea agreement that indicates you want
Starting point is 00:05:43 to resolve your case by pleading guilty to count one, fraudulent schemes and arduces of class two non-dangerous felony, count six, perjury, a class four non-dangerous felony, count nine, fraudulent schemes and artifices of class two non-dangerous felony, and then count 10, taking my identity of another, a class four felony, non-dangerous. Is that what you want to do today. How do you plead to count one, fraudulent schemes and arbaces, a class two non-dangerous felony committed on or about May 17th, 2023 through an including June 10th of 2024, guilty or not guilty? Guilty. How do you plead to count six, perjury, a class four non-dangerous felony committed honor about June 10th of 2024. Guilty or not guilty? Guilty.
Starting point is 00:06:21 How do you plead to count nine, fraudulent schemes and arvices, a class two non-dangerous felony committed on, on or about July 1st of 2021 through an including August 17th of 2020? to guilty or not guilty. Guilty. And how do you plead to count 10, taking the identity of another, a class four, non-dangerous felony committed honor about August 6th of 2021. Guilty or not guilty?
Starting point is 00:06:43 Guilty. All right, factual basis, please. Your Honor, is count one, honor about May 17th, 2020, and through June 10th, 2024 within Maricopa County, this court's jurisdiction, Laura Michelle Owens, pursuant to a scheme or artifices to defraud, knowingly did obtain a benefit from Clayton Ray Eckard by means of fraud
Starting point is 00:07:02 pretenses, representation, promises, or material omissions. As count six, within Maricopa County, this court's jurisdiction, honor about June 10th, 2024, Laura Michelle Owens, in regard to a material issue and believing it to be false, did make a false sworn statement to wit, claiming, that's me showing my pregnant stomach. That's count eight, again in Maricopa County, this court's jurisdiction. So it's count nine, excuse me. Count nine, I apologize.
Starting point is 00:07:29 But honor between July 1st, 2021 and August 17, 2022, Laura Michelle Owens, again, pursuant to a scheme or arrethists or fraud, knowingly did obtain a benefit from Gregory Gillespie by means of fraudulent pretenses, representation, promises, and material omissions. And finally, on count 10, in Merrickup County within this course jurisdiction, honor about August 6th, 2021, Laura Michelle Owens,
Starting point is 00:07:52 knowingly did take, purchase, manufacturer, record, possess, or use any personal identifying information or entity identifying information of stormy Lynn Mitchell without consent with the intent to obtain or use the identity for any unlawful purpose or to cause loss to a person or with the intent to obtain or continue in court of it. Thank you. Any additions or corrections of the factual basis from the state? No, you are. You know, running a business is tough enough, but why make it harder doing things manually or relying on dozens of apps that don't talk to each other? That's where our sponsor, Odu, comes in. Odoo is an all-e.
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Starting point is 00:09:32 But upon yesterday's ending of the court hearing, I found myself telling the other guys, the victims that I felt it was anticlimactic what occurred yesterday. And I felt numb and emotionless. And I couldn't understand why that was. But I woke up today and after reflecting more, I realized the reason for it. It's because my healing was not contingent upon what? occurred yesterday. I've already healed and I'm grateful for this entire experience. I know that sounds backwards, but the amount of resilience that I've built through all of this, the community
Starting point is 00:10:10 that I found within all of this adversity, the power presence that I've gained, the insight, everything that has come from all of this, I would do it a thousand times over. I would because I'm proud of the man that I've become through it all. I'm proud of the community for coming together. but I also was proud of Laura because Laura has never been able to take an ounce of accountability until yesterday. And it does, that's not lost upon me how huge that was. I think that's a major potentially life-altering step in Laura's life where her taking a sliver of accountability yesterday could be the turning point for her.
Starting point is 00:10:52 And I want that for Laura. I want Laura to heal. I want Laura to see brighter days. So to discuss this incredible development in this case that seems like it was never going to end, and now it is, I want to bring in Greg Woodnick. He represents victim Clayton Eckert in this case. Greg, thanks so much for coming back on. It's great to see you.
Starting point is 00:11:15 My pleasure, Anjanet. Good to see you as well. Good to see you. Your reaction to Laura Owens pleading guilty after all this time. You know, as a lawyer in the back of my head this whole time, I always anticipated that this would end by a plea. I know on social media, there was a lot of talk about this ending by trial. And I think there's probably a lot of people that wanted it to go to trial to hear all the gory details. But I always anticipated it would end in a plea agreement, and I'm very pleased that it did.
Starting point is 00:11:46 The agreement that the county attorney and Laura's current criminal attorney brokered is inherently fair, it's the right outcome. And I think sentencing is going to be absolutely fascinating for a lot of people to see how Laura addresses and takes responsibility for what she's now pled guilty to do it. Why do you think it's going to be so fascinating? Because she denied this for so very long. So Laura denied this forever. And not only did- Forever up until like this week. Well, it was more than that she was denying it. She was publicly denying it. She was engaged in YouTube and streaming and social media efforts, writing articles, you know, claiming that she'd been the victim of, you know, mass public. And she was the victim of a court that went after her just because she got pregnant by The Bachelor.
Starting point is 00:12:43 It was ridiculous. So it wasn't just that she was denying she was guilty, which I think people probably do frequently. But she was doing it quite publicly. and it was extreme. So the fact that she finally changed her tune yesterday and admitted to four major felony charges is a big deal. Yeah, four felonies. And so I'm a little bit shocked because it seemed like she was never going to give in
Starting point is 00:13:12 when the evidence appeared to clearly be there. So what do you believe the turning point was? Because she's had several attorneys, nobody seems to have been able to talk her into this up until this point. So what changed in your view as somebody who represents a victim in this case? So I represent a victim in this case, but I've represented the Lores in the world before. I've got a 25-year career of defending people in family court and criminal court proceeding. So I've been in the situation where I've had the client who's denied their guilt,
Starting point is 00:13:46 even when faced with significant evidence. I don't think I've ever dealt with a client personally that had as much evidence against her as Laura did. And she did run through a number of attorneys. It was three attorneys in the criminal matter. And Anjanet, I think she's had something like 15 or 16 attorneys total in this saga, which began in California, came over to Arizona, went back to California in the Court of Appeals, multiple cases here in Arizona, protective order.
Starting point is 00:14:16 order proceedings. There are so many attorneys I lost count of them. To answer your question, what changed, I'm going to give credit to Laura's attorney. I think Laura has a smart attorney who gave her really good advice. And that advice, and I wasn't in the room when he gave it to her, but I've been in that room before because I've represented clients in horrible situations, was the evidence is significant, Laura. There are 14 counts against you. If you're lucky and you go to trial, maybe we can beat a few. few of the counts for insufficiency of evidence or technical reasons, but the chances are significant that you are going to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to most of these major felonies,
Starting point is 00:14:56 and you're going to end up spending a long time in prison. And whatever conversation her attorney must have had with her was, I would assume, a wake-up call, that this was an opportunity for her, an opportunity for her to acknowledge what she had done and have the opportunity to come back to court a little more on her own terms with the judge to address sentencing. Because remember, when you go to trial, the judge hears everything. And it would have been a week or two of trial and then trying to at sentencing mitigate your consequence, a little more challenging. But here, she admitted guilt, very late in the game, she admitted guilt and gives her a little bit of leverage coming into sentencing to try to convince the court that she's not the kind of person that
Starting point is 00:15:39 needs to spend an excessive amount of time incarcerated. As a victim, do you think Clayton is going to ask that she serve some time behind bars? Will you, as his attorney, asked that she served some time behind bars because she put him through hell. I mean, she might be admitted to admitting to it now, but we're talking the civil trial. We're talking all of the text messages and everything and the lawsuit she filed in the past. I mean, I'm talking hell. You're thinking like you might be the daddy when you're not really the daddy and couldn't be the daddy.
Starting point is 00:16:15 And it's just like crazy town. So what are you going to ask for? First of all, what you described, I think is only a part of it. Because this saga went on so long, people forget the other things that Laura had done, including in that trial, the trial that my office handled for Clayton on the false paternity claim on the stand, she alleged that Clayton raped her. So Clayton's got every reason on earth to be upset. And I know, first of all, I can speak for Clayton, but I know he will be asking that she'd be incarcerated. As his attorney, I certainly will echo that. I don't speak for the other two or three victims, but I'm fairly confident that all of them will be asking that her consequence include some amount of incarceration.
Starting point is 00:17:02 I think the community deserves that after the damage she did. there was a lot of information floating around social media during the hearing there was talk about laura being back in chambers with her lawyer and the judge and the prosecutor and so something was up and something was going on do you have any insight into what was going on there was talk that she was back there crying she didn't want to go to jail she was not wanting to sign the plea agreement but eventually did. Do you know if any of those claims are actually true? I think I think those are all true. I was in the front row of the courtroom sitting next to Clayton. One of the other victims was seated to my right and his spouse was seated to his right. And we were all chatting in there.
Starting point is 00:17:49 And at one point, we were informed by the Maricopa County Attorney's Office that Laura had signed the plea agreement. And so there was a collective sigh of relief. I mean, this is a big deal. we went into that hearing, you know, I thought maybe it would resolve by plea at the hearing, but I was the only one of the people in my row who thought that was really going to happen. And so when the prosecutor came up to us and leaned over the bar and said, she signed it, it was like a collective sigh of relief. But the reality is the next words out of his mouth were, but it really doesn't count until she comes in here and puts it on the record. And then he explained, or we understood that she was in the back.
Starting point is 00:18:31 allegedly ill, probably something that happens fairly common where people have anxiety before facing consequences. This isn't even the big hearing. I mean, the big hearing is sentencing, so that'll be interesting how she acts then. But for purposes of yesterday, we were surprised to hear she had signed the plea. And then we found out right afterwards that she was apparently in the back ill, and they weren't sure if she would come in to actually put it on the record. because she was vomiting. That's what the talk was on social media, that she was in the back vomiting. I didn't hear it on social media. I heard it from court officials. So they shared that with us. And then we assume that's true. But maybe 10 or 15 minutes later, the court came back live.
Starting point is 00:19:16 She walked in very quickly, straight up to the defendant's seat, sat down with her attorney, Christian looters, and the court came in pretty quickly. And the actual plea proceeding, change of plea proceeding was unbelievably efficient. Greg, was this plea hearing, this proceeding? Was it typical? Was it like any other plea hearing? It was almost typical. There was obviously the delays with Laura coming into the courtroom and was she sick or not sick. And us hearing about her having signed the plea agreement, but not being present yet to put it on the record.
Starting point is 00:19:55 and us waiting for it to be put on the record. And then eventually it was clear that she was coming into the courtroom. The judge came in, everyone stood up, all rise, and we sat down, and the judge called the case and started to put the plea proceeding on the record. That's a process where the court has the defendant usually make what's called a factual basis. That's where in some communities they call it an allocution, but we call it a factual basis here in Arizona.
Starting point is 00:20:26 And that's where the, usually the defense attorney, sometimes the prosecutor, usually the defense attorney, sometimes the prosecutor, usually the defense attorney will share with the judge as to each one of the counts what the facts were behind it. On this date and this time within the jurisdiction of this court, the defendant did the following act. That's how the process works. You do it. In this case, it would have been done, and it was done four separate times for each of the four crimes. There were two guilty, excuse me, there were two counts where Clayton was the victim. There was one count where the other gentleman Greg was the victim. And there was a fourth count where Ms. Mitchell, who was the owner of the stolen ultrasound that was used in evidence was a victim. When Laura's attorney went to give the factual basis,
Starting point is 00:21:22 He read the factual basis from the complaint, which is totally acceptable, but a very sanitary way to present a factual basis in court. And usually is not how it's done. Usually the defense attorney gives some detail about what happened. And without knowing what happened behind the scenes, my guess is that was a very smart and intentional move on her attorney's part and that the court may have even known that was going to happen. Because had he read more details into each of the factual allegations, there was a concern that Laura was going to come unglued at the table and perhaps stop the plea proceeding. So it was a very sanitary presentation, significantly more sanitary that I'm used to seeing in a court setting. It was totally appropriate. And if it was intentional, it was a very smart move to keep Laura in the seat to get the plea done. If you love digging into crime cases, as much as I do, you must download the Law and Crime Plus app. If you haven't checked it out yet, here are three reasons you should jump on board today.
Starting point is 00:22:30 First, you get complete access. Watch the best shows from both law and crime and court TV completely ad-free. Number two, the case files get deep dive access to raw trial evidence, including body camera video, 911 calls, crime scene photos, and more. And finally, it's free. For 30 days. giving all of our viewers a full month to test it out completely risk-free. So head on over to law and crimeplus.com, enter promo code crime fix and start exploring today. You know, is there any
Starting point is 00:23:02 thought that she might try to withdraw this plea? Or do you think she's kind of had that come to Jesus moment finally where where this attorney was able to break through as no one else had been able to in the past? Certainly. My phone and my email has been blown up by people wondering if there's a way for her to get out of the plea. As an attorney in Arizona, I can tell you if she really wanted to, she could make efforts to back out of the plea at this point. It would not be easy, but she certainly could do that. Do I think she's going to do it? No, I don't think so.
Starting point is 00:23:39 But is it a possibility? Absolutely. And again, I might be the only one who thinks she's not going to try to do that. But it's a possibility. So, yeah, because if she goes to trial and she's already admitted guilt, Well, in theory, it's a little legally technical. In theory, if she were allowed to get out of the plea agreement, for whatever legal reason, her attorney backed her out of the plea agreement, the fact that she entered into it would not be used against her in a trial. A jury would never hear that on, you know, August 28th she entered into it. No one would ever hear about that. She'd have to get out of it first for that to even be a conversation, but the jury would never know about that. I hope she doesn't try to get out of the plea. And the reason why is, I think there's a lot of resolution and healing that's going on in the community now that this is coming to an end. And I think she would pick a pretty bad scab if she did that. I also think that the good agreement
Starting point is 00:24:34 that she reached with the Maricopa County Attorney's Office would never be back on the table again. Obviously, I don't speak for the prosecutor, but I can't imagine after all the efforts that went into coming up with a resolution by plea and then obviously setting this out for sentencing in October, I can't imagine that she could get out of the plea and then expect to have meaningful discussions with the state regarding how this would resolve. The case would just simply go to trial, and then a jury would decide which of the 14 counts she was guilty of. And actually, Anjana, that reminded me when you and I did our interview last, it was right after the indictments. I think you were the first person I talked to after Laura was indicted. And I see that looking at your face right now, thinking what a journey this has been.
Starting point is 00:25:20 And as a lawyer who've been alongside Clayton, but for all these people, it's been a long road. And it just dawned on me. You were the first human being I talked to, certainly first reporter that I talked to after the indictments. Yeah, I remember that. I think I informed you. I'm remembering that you did inform me. Yeah, that was wild. So, you know, this case, it still boggles my mind was Jan Black was.
Starting point is 00:25:50 Was she in the courtroom? That's Laura's mother. Was she in the courtroom with her yesterday? She was. I've been to many of the proceedings. Not all of them. I think I might have missed one or two along the way. But usually Laura comes in and she's with her mother and her father. And her father is sickly. He's in a wheelchair. But she comes in with both of them. Yesterday, it was just Jan Black. And Jan sat on the aisle and came in with her and walked out with her. together a lot, but her father was not there yesterday. So sentencing is coming up here in a couple of months. You know, you want her to get some jail time. Clayton thinks she should serve some jail time. It's going to be up to the judge. What do you think the prosecutor is going to ask for? Jail time. Yeah, I'm very confident that the prosecutor who's been spectacular here,
Starting point is 00:26:46 the Maricopa County Attorney's Office has delivered here. I'm a guy. I'm a guy. who's made his living as a lawyer in this community, and I've bumped heads with the Maricopa County Attorney's Office professionally, always professionally, but we're not on the same side of things frequently. But watching them do not a good job, but a great job for Clayton and the other victims was my absolute pleasure. They were committed, professional, and kind. It does not get better than that. I'm going to extend that comment. I live in Scottsdale, which is the community where the police the police presence that raided the house, the, you know, it's before 7 a.m. Video.
Starting point is 00:27:27 Yes. I watched those police officers handle Laura so professionally, so kindly, so thoughtfully. When Laura was making claims that they were appointing their guns or whatever, they were so calm. It was, it was, you know, I think police get a bad rap. And sometimes maybe it's, maybe it's justified. But, but man, I've seen nothing but amazing professional. from my community. And I don't just mean my legal community. I also mean my police community. The Scottsdale Police were spectacular. Maricopa County Attorney's Office handled this case with
Starting point is 00:28:00 grace. And I think we're committed to seeing this thing through. You know, as a lawyer, countless times I've had someone on the stand and people lie. People go under oath and lie all the time. You know, the legal system's got a lot of lying and boring that happens in it. People raise their hand on the Bible or whatever. and swear to tell the truth and they don't. And I've said countless times that you, ma'am, you understand you're under oath, and there are penalties for perjury. If you lie, you could be charged with a criminal offense.
Starting point is 00:28:32 I've been saying that for over 25 years as a lawyer, Anginette. This is the first time I've seen it carried through to consequence. And it's validating. It reminds me that people need to be held accountable for their acts and that the government will do that appropriately when it's appropriate. And in this case, they did it.
Starting point is 00:28:52 I agree with you 100%. The police were very nice to her when they executed that search warrant. The SWAT team, you know, SWAT teams go in. That's what they do when they execute search warrants. That's how it works. And, you know, they could have been a lot meaner to her. And they were actually quite kind in helping Ron get out of bed and everything like that. Did Laura Owens learn her lesson here?
Starting point is 00:29:17 Has Laura Owens learned her lesson? Time will tell. I will tell you, my big concern is that Laura continued some of her behavioral habits after she was indicted. She had continued her behavioral habits after Judge Mata found against her. And so you would have thought that a judge making that kind of ruling. And I'm talking about Judge Mata in the case that I tried. in June of 2024, you would have thought that that would have scared the someone and they would have corrected their behavior. Not Laura. She attacked the judge. She attacked the judge's family.
Starting point is 00:29:59 It was, you know, it was extreme with her social media behavior. You would have thought after she was indicted the first time that would have stopped the toxic social media behavior. It didn't. And then you would have thought after the additional seven charges making 14 total that it would have stopped her behavior. And I'm not sure it did much. It might have curtailed it a little bit, but certainly did not stop it. She was still posting online. And it's just troubling. It's troubling. Makes sense. All right. Thank you, Greg. So Laura Owens is on her way to being a convicted felon. She will be sentenced on October 23rd. Law and Crime will have that covered for you. And remember to check out the Law and Crime Plus app.
Starting point is 00:30:45 for the case file on the Owens case. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.

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