Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Giddy Woman Laughs with Cops After Murdering Ex-Lover with Sword

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

Grace Jennings was murdered on October 29, 2022 in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Police found her stabbed and slashed with a sword in a garage where a former girlfriend of hers, Kiara McCulley, lived with her boyfriend, Isaac Apodaca. McCulley and Apodaca were both charged with murdering Jennings. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy goes through the body camera video and police interviews in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you or a loved one has suffered from addiction, financial hardship, or mental health issues due to sports betting apps, visit https://gamblinglawsuits.com/crimefix to take a short quiz and check your eligibility to file a claim.Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Producer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Let's blend the door. Kick the door. I got you. Police apart, man, let me shoot your hands. Police are on high alert as they look for a woman believed to have been killed by her ex-girlfriend with a sword. Someone just got stabbed inside that garage.

There's a big ass sword right here. I have the details. about the tragic and gruesome murder of Grace Jennings and what lies ahead for the two people charged in her murder. Who's Isaac's girlfriend? She is. You're Isaac's girlfriend? Yeah. Okay. This is a law and crime legal alert. There are allegations claiming that online apps like draft kings, ESPN bet, bet MGM, Bet 365, Fanatic Sportsbook, and see, These are sportsbook are engineered for addiction. These multi-billion dollar companies allegedly continue to put profit over safety. Every free bet, boosted parlay, and every small payout

triggers a dopamine rush that creates dependency and turns harmless fun into a destructive habit. They keep users hooked chasing impossible wins and trap people in a cycle that can lead to serious financial loss and damage mental health. Our legal sponsors are taking on the online industry to seek justice and potential compensation for those impacted. So if you or a loved one has struggled with addiction, financial hardship, or mental health issues because of sports betting apps, visit gambling lawsuit.com slash crime fix to take a short quiz and check your eligibility to file a claim. I have to tell you, just when you think you've heard it all, a case like this one crops up. It's disturbing. A young woman's life was taken. She was murdered by her

friend with a sword. The young woman was Grace Jennings. She was 21 years old when she was killed. Grace had actually once dated a young woman named Kiera McCulley. Kiera has now pleaded guilty to a second-degree murder charge in Grace's death. Kiera's on again, off-again, boyfriend Isaac Apodaca, faces a first-degree murder charge in Grace's death. The investigation started on October 29th, 2022 in Santa Fe, New Mexico. 5-9. Police received two 911 calls, one from Isaac Apodaca, who said that he witnessed his girlfriend, Kiyara McCulley, Kill Grace Jennings.

His mother placed a second 911 call reporting what her son had told her. Now, it doesn't get any more serious than this, so the officers wait for backup. Alright. Go back. Move. Come back. Come back. Come back.

Get it in. See the power trying to break the door down. Break the door down. Let's blend the door. Kick the door! I got you! No, go! Police, a fire van! Let me see your hands!

Back up! Back up! What's going on? What's going on? Who called? What? What? Someone was getting killed in here.

Where's the garage? Where's the garage? Apparently killed the other one. Come on here. Come on here. Come on here. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know here.

Who's in this garage? Who's in this garage? Who's in this garage? My cat's and my son. Someone just called it, someone just got, step over here, step over here. Someone just got stabbed inside that garage. Do you have a window back there? Do you have a window back there?

They say it's possibly in here. My house? Oh, from my house? Don't know. Is there still here? No. Do anybody was down here? Maybe step.

Can I find out if my son is okay in there? What's your son's name? Isaac? Isaac? He's not in there. To clear things up, this home where officers are responding is owned by responding is owned by Kiara's mother, who appears to consider Isaac Apodaca, her future son-in-law. That's why she's calling him her son. The officers have to check the garage.

5-941 in the garage. Can I open my garage? Is it unlocked? I don't know. No, we'll get, we'll get it. We don't want you to get hurt if something's actually happening. Is there a key? I'll get it. I'll get it. We got it. We got it. We got it.

Hey, staff the radio right now. Yeah, we got one down, Santa Fe. Go back inside. I'm not gonna tell you again, go back inside. Detain him, detain them. What are you talking about? Santa Fe, police, anyone inside. Santa Fe, please.

Santa Fe, please. I can't, I can't clear. Do you guys want to go in or I can't? I can't. There's too much trash. It's a tin. It looks clear. There's right here by the door. There's way too much trash unless we can open that back door, that garage. Can we open the garage from that side?

No, it's 10401. It's a 1041. What do you want to do? It looks empty here, I can't. Is it clear? I don't know. I think so. I can't. You can't clear any further, bro. Without.

She's 10-7 for sure. There's a big ass sword right here. Now, the officer has discovered a woman's body inside, and you heard him say there's a big sword in the garage, too. Firefighters arrived to see whether the victim can be helped. You're going for sure and clear, clear? That's pretty much it. I don't know if... Alright.

Unless there's someone hiding under freaking all this trash. Okay. So... Really. Over here. Unless there's someone hiding under the trash, I don't... Yeah, we need to... I'll stand by there. Send someone over there.

Oh no, that's a good. That was weird. You see the sword? There's a sword like this big, right there. So when I saw her, when I came up, saw her when i came through the bed the door closed and she was walking this there yeah so the blonde 41 the younger one let's figure out if he's stab or she or she or she or she's slashes okay like on the knees there's slashes where's this guy we don't we don't know they don't know he is at 41 or she or it's a it looks like a 10401 so is the one that has all that information

This is incredibly serious. A woman is dead in the garage, with what appears to be slashes on her body, and Isaac Apodaca told 911 his girlfriend committed the murder. Okay. Who's Isaac's girlfriend? She is. You're Isaac's girlfriend? Yeah.

Okay. What are you to Isaac? Well, I'm kind of mother-in-law to be. This is your daughter? Yes, this is my daughter. Step out with me real quick. What's your name? Kiara.

Kiar. Do you have shoes on? No. Okay. I don't know where my shoes are. This is his girlfriend. Can I get some shoes on or something? Not right now. Do you get some shoes for her?

Be detained at this point, okay? Why? I'll be my question. So... That was right, Mike. See you the whole time. Real quick search. Just make it quick. That's us.

Okay. So he saw a female walk back in, we were trying to make entry, and then we got confirmation. She said her son stays here. So what's your first name? Kiara. Yeah, Kara, what? McCulley. McCulley.

Did you guys have a fight or something? Can she sit down so I can put her shoes on her feet? Kiera McCulley's mother doesn't appear to know what is going on or what's happened, but an officer said he saw Kiera run toward the house. And Isaac went for a walk? Yeah. So he was going for a walk in the shower. They were going to go on a walk.

Hey, so she went back in there, so you want to sell this up as well? Okay. She was in the shower. Okay. So nobody's going back in that. house and nobody's going back in there okay i have cats i have to they've been unfortunately mom but this is an active investigation okay so nobody's going back in the house somehow no this is a crime scene at this point how's my house there's a

deceased person in your garage that's why it's a crime there's a body in this yes stand up for me let's walk this way what the f***er mcculley is in big trouble and officers take her to a cruiser do you know what her name is your tongue your mom earlier Well, I know that Grace was back there with Isaac. What does Grace look like? It's just tall, blackish. Is that the only information? Yes.

I need to get her. Okay. Ask Isaac what her name is. Around the same time. Is that Isaac? Did you call us, bro? Here, come over here. You're good. Come here. You don't have any knives, any weapons on you? No.

No? Just put it down for now. Just put it down. You're not in trouble, bro. Got to make sure you don't have any weapons. Okay, should you put your hands up right here, right here. I get it. Santa Fe officers tracked down Isaac Apodaca at a cell phone store. Here, for now, bro, just because we're, it looks like your girlfriend or whoever's in there is

really injured. So for now, we're going to put. you under detention of Kinta, we can figure this out. You're not under arrest. Okay. Here, I'll put this right here. Isaac Apadaka? Yeah. Hey, listen to me. You said you found a girl? Yes. Where is she at? She's at 5941 Jaguar drive in the garage. I walked in on... I'm trying to see if we have suspect for the What was she wearing? Now your girlfriend, the girl you saw that was it. She was wearing the black sweater and some shorts.

Okay, let's walk all over here, okay? Okay, so can you tell me, how did this call, my spy? How did you, how did you call? I, I was, I walked into the garage, I walked into the garage. I walked into the garage, and when I walk in the garage, she goes, oh, I just did it. And who was this? Kiarra McCulley. She told you that?

Very calmly and everything, blood on her hands. Okay. And I called my mom because I witnessed something traumatic like this happening before. Isaac goes on to tell the officer he witnessed a murder during a drug deal gone bad, and so he's scared because he's on probation. The officers take Isaac Apodaca to the police station and question him about what happened. So from the time it began, it would be yesterday we started, we were all hanging out. Everybody was talking, happy, normal kind of thing, notch a lot. Nighttime came around and we started going to, we started falling asleep.

Kiara Kali did not fall asleep. I did not get good rest because she had been placing something sharp in my back. Throughout the morning hours, they had been placing something sharp in my back. And I had told, I was talking to Grace, who was in the garage as well, I said, we have to go, she's told telling us, we need to leave. And I said that, and then I proceeded to start packing my stuff. And I left the main house to go use the restroom for the last time. and then I walked it back into the garage. She walks up and goes, I did it with a smile on her face.

And I looked at the ground and I was like, what do I do now? So I called my mom immediately to let her know that something happened. The detective can clearly tell. There's a little more to this story. asks more questions. Isaac Apodaca reveals that he once dated grace. They have a romantic past, but there's more. You may remember that Kiera said earlier that she had once dated grace. I think so. Kiara also has a past with grace.

Oh, they know each other? Yes. What's their past? They are X's to each other. Oh, they used to date each other? Yes. Okay. How long What was that? 2017. Um, I roughly, from what I was told, it passed in 11 months. Okay. And, uh, what happened there? Do you know the background there of why it ended?

Um, Kiara started getting into, Kiara and her started, um, a fight one night. One night, there was a brother friend, Brady. Grace brought a knife up to Kiara's throat, and it took the act of Brady to punch him, won't punch Grace together. Grace at that time, put a knife to Kiara's throat. Yes. The conversation moves on to discussion about the sword and other knives that Isaac has described. Old English came a sword. I don't know if you're like a fan of Lord of the Rings. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Arragon sword. Okay. It looks like that or is it like a replica? It looks like that. It looks like that. Why am I doing this? So who does this night belong to? Kiarra.

Who does this sword belong to? Kiarra. throw out the dagger was that I want to Kiar The detective again presses for more information So in your

in your original statement you say that Kiaro's poking you in the back and then we kind of jumped to you telling Grace that you guys had to go because Kira didn't want you there anymore how did you know

that Kira didn't want you guys there anymore She woke up Well, she woke up from what she said she slept, but she was awake the whole time. And she turned over, told me, you guys need to get out. I don't want you guys here. And then proceeded to start playing with something. I don't know what she was playing with.

It was really freaking me out. So I was trying to get out. I was in and out of the room trying to contact my mom to be. You have to get me out of there. What time was that out? I contacted my mom around, I would say, 12. Isaac goes on to tell the detective that Kiara told him and Grace to leave at 8.30 that morning. That's a long time that had passed.

The detective has Isaac also draw what he saw. Describe Grace to me more her injuries. What do you observe? I saw an ear cut of, um, something with her knee there was right here I saw blood right here blood right here and started seeing blood right leaking out it was like it's all like it's all blood leaking out and she was just like that that's not me making fun of that I have a very strong rule on that.

Isaac and the detective eventually take a bathroom break. When the interview starts up again, the detective asks Isaac if he can look at his phone and Instagram messages between him and Grace from that morning. She's kicking me out because you're here and she knows it. So did she, it's sounding like to me, just take a pause real quick. Did you, did she not know she was there?

Because that's what looks like. She knew she was there. Then why is it looking like in these messages? She knew she was there and she was playing, she was acting like she didn't know where she was. Who was acting like, I'm so confused. Who was acting like who didn't know who? Grace was acting like she didn't know where she was.

Okay. Even though we had talked. She is kicking me out because you're here and she knows it how she is right next to you what the fuck really how how great yep why though she is not wanting to she is not wanting to deal with it us being here and i broke her trust she is not in the best mood she is not wanting to deal with what she's not wanting to deal with us what does that mean she didn't want us there at home okay but it says she is not wanting to deal with it I was I should have been more I'm horrible with my words

I'm horrible with guys tired I'm just trying to understand too it was just to meet and she didn't want to deal with us okay being there because I know how she feels my mom's coming to get me soon okay was like she's kicking us out. Why is she kicking you out? And how does she know I'm here? I'm like, we discussed this. Nice. So she is right next to you. So that was your way of telling her like, I'm referring to. Kiara. Kiara. Okay. That makes a little bit more sense to me now. Okay. This is all very strange to the detective. So he asks to see Isaac's messages with Kiara. She's listed as Huggy on the phone.

Whoa, those are a lot of, those are a lot of emojis. Okay, we're just going to start from there. How about that? This is at 11.56 a.m. What? And that's, that's, uh, forgive me, I forgot her name for a second. This is your fiancé saying this, what? Yes.

Hey, I have a plan with what I said. All I have to do is be over there at my fam's place and call the cops for a breaking and entering what are you talking about there um it was something that happened in my family's house we've been trying to figure out who has been getting into my uh storage i have stuff in my storage and they keep finding it unlocked and that was something entirely different hold up listen okay plan b just tell her she needs to leave follow my leave my lady just tell her to leave dude I'm in a mood I did

through Insta so now what Operation Kickout me following the call to the cops once out my family's what does that mean

that was I was talking about because she had asked me to leave and that's why I said Operation Kickout because every time I get told to leave

I say Operation Kickout it's her go-to thing to tell me to leave and it's like she kicks me out and then a few months like a few days later she'd come back over and stuff like that but to call the cops that my family was because of the breaking so according to you're talking about two different things at the same time yes okay

how about I just explain why I'm angry and why she's not wanted okay show me what you sent her My plan. Okay, cool. And those are the messages that we looked at earlier between you and... Yes. Okay.

It worked with Christian. She says she is leaving at 3.30. She's mad. 3.30. Mad still. Yeah, why don't you pop off my little firecracker? What would you like me to do? Stab her.

I don't know, I don't have the energy to do shit. What's this? Read what she sent. Is she stupid? Yes. Okay. I am fake getting thrown out. I am fake and thrown out. You're getting fake thrown out. Yes, that's usually how it happens.

I get told to leave. and five days later shots me to come back uh-huh follow my lead my lady we can hear you they want me to spend

what I have they want me to spend what I have saved for the house don't what the fuck what does that mean they want me to spend what I've saved for the house that was

me talking to my mom and dad they wanted me to get a motel which is not a good idea because I don't do motel so Now, this isn't this detective's first rodeo. His antenna is clearly up. He's suspicious about what Isaac is telling him, and it only gets worse as he reads the messages out loud.

Unless I ask your mom to give me a ride to target and you do what is needed. What do you do what is needed? I have no clue from this on, from beyond here. I don't know what's going on. You don't know what's going on, but these are messages from you. I do have a number. another cell phone didn't tell you guys about but it's still over there at the house at the house okay but this is the one you use I use that one primarily only for work

yeah okay so you didn't send these messages or you did on this from down on no oh okay her mother is her backup ride okay want me to get your mom to give me a ride to Target so you can take my stuff into the back room and her mom and your mom don't get into it. Yay or nay? Wait a bit though. Okay, how long? Until there's a clue on when she's leaving. She admitted to me when she lived at those apartments and she was sober then. She admitted to me also back when I first met her calling you crazy. What are you talking about? I don't know. That's not me. That's not you?

That's not me. Who is it? That's the other phone that's been, they were being used to message back and forth. Isaac, this is getting really weird, man. I have a second phone. You have a second phone? Yes. Where is that phone?

That's at the house. Okay. It is logged into the same Facebook account. Okay. I don't know, man. These messages look a lot like there's some conspiring going up. some planning going on what from that point where I was telling you from even before then it sounds like you guys are planning something your fake getting thrown out and

what I say faking throwing out like I said was what I mean when I say faking is she'll tell me to leave she's telling me that I'm getting kicked out and five days later she's like come back do you want to start over because I'm I'm really confused with everything that's going on like you're telling me you have two phones now and those other messages aren't you and it's what you're telling me your statement isn't lining up with these messages now I told you at the beginning of this talk that we need to be we need to be truthful yes I am being truthful I do have a secondary phone and I'm telling you the messages.

Not me. Those are not my messages. Whose messages do you think they are? They're from Kiara to using my Facebook from me to Kiara, but I can't quite explain how it looks. By this point, the detective is certain

that Isaac is not being honest with him. And Isaac paints Kiara as violent. She's been like I said, at the beginning I was a part of a domestic violence case yeah and um go get us the charter please what it involved her but before that there was problems in our relationship and ever since before that she's been trying to get revenge and She's been talking to the people to...

She's told me that she's wanting to ruin my life. And she's wanting to ruin my life for a while. So, and I'm being honest, there is two phones. The other phone is on top of the fridge in the garage. In the garage, okay. What kind of phone is it? Samsung Galaxy has 10 plus 512 gigabyte. has a clear case on it slowly but surely it appears the detective is getting closer to the truth it appears is holding back but he slowly reveals bits of new information about grace

i did have contact with her and it was just like on and off what kind of contact like hey how's it going like how's your job going and stuff like that okay and Any meetings, any sex, anything like that? No. No? Okay. What about Kiara? Kiara and Grace.

They used to date at some point, right? Yes. After they broke up, did they have any contact with each other that you know about? Yes. Yeah. Was there any sexual interaction between anyone last night? No. No, threesome or nothing like that between the three of you guys?

No. Has that ever been anything you guys have ever done in the past? What I thought about him? That did happen in the past, and... Who was involved? It was first Kiara and this girl named... The detective is clearly more interested in what happened last night. What about last night?

There was no threesome, there was no sex, nothing else. Was that ever on the table? No. Okay. Was there anything romantic going on between you and grace? No. What about between you? and Grace and your fiance.

Kiara? I don't know. You don't know? Was Kiara okay? Was Grace coming over last night? She was all right. She was all, text me when she's here. Please text me when she was here.

So she wandered to? So what happened? We're missing something somewhere to where Kiara is okay with Grace coming over. You have a prior relationship with her, Kiara has a prior relationship with her. And then the morning comes, and Kiara wants you both out. What happened? Help me understand.

Don't think about it. Just tell me what happened. She just wasn't in the mood. Who wasn't in the mood? Kiara, she wasn't in the mood. The mood for what? For us being there. For who being there?

Me, Isaac, and Grace. Why? Because she felt as if we were walking all over her. Why? Because she's okay with you inviting her over. She was excited about it, is what you just told me. So what changed, unless she feels like you guys were walking all over her? I don't know.

You don't know? I don't know. What all did you guys do last night? You guys said you were having fun, having a good time. Tell me more about last night. We're having fun talking, listening to music, then we listen to music on the TV. Any alcohol? Any drugs?

No. No. Are there any alcohol or drugs in the garage? No. No. Any alcohol or drugs used by anyone this morning? No. Do you ever drink alcohol or use drugs?

I can't touch alcohol or drugs because of the probation. Oh, you're on probation? And if it slips in my system, game over. Yeah. What do you have probation for? trespassing and committing a thousand dollars worth of property damage. Isaac then tells the detective that Kiara wanted to rekindle something with Grace the night before, but he wasn't interested. The detective continues to read text messages between Isaac and Kiara.

But you invited Grace over there? Yes. Okay. I want to play a couple songs, but I don't know how to talk. I'm uncomfortable. Lay your head on me, Brad. Go in the house. for a bit what's going on trust me just go inside for a bit just say you need the bathroom okay and now we're at 3 a.m. Hey can I come back I don't know can you yes dagger because it's blunt what's that mean why are you telling her dagger because it's blunt she was asked she asked me a question in the room like what what is the difference between the dagger and the sword

And I messaged at here Because it's Why is Blunt better? She says You say it cuts like butter She says just going to stab the Throat Is that what she's trying to say? The thought

Just going to stab the thought Yes Instant or will it take long What does she mean? Instant What do we do about the mess? What do we do about the mess? What mess?

We burn it and I'll buy new blankets in bed. What's going on here, Isaac? She, I was talking to her and... What miss? She was talking about, I... She said stab, I was gonna stab the thought. And I thought, like, um, like, she was poking the thought that was in her head about her dagger.

Okay. What about the mess? What mess? She had made a mess in the bed. What kind of mess? A poop kind of mess. A poop kind of mess? Yes. We burn it and I'll buy new blankets in bed.

Yeah. But until we can, I love these sheets and my favorite fuzzy blanket is here. I know. Just intense wash tomorrow, hydrogen peroxide and ice. Well, sure. We'll get it out. Yes. Can you help this time? Yes. I am just waiting for you to make the first move. What does she mean? I'm waiting for you to make the first move. She will wait till sleep. Shall we wait till sleep? So she pooped herself last night?

Yes. And did you guys wash the sheets? No. So you guys slept in a bed full of poop? Yes. So when we go to the garage, for a search warrant, there's poop on the sheets? Yes. Okay. Gotcha.

What are you guys waiting for until sleep? Shall we wait till sleep? Remember when you told me don't be a pussy when I kissed you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, brat. We will have to take care of the mess ASAP after we finish. We will have to take care of the mess. I thought she already pooped herself. What mess you guys taking care of?

The detective clearly suspects that Isaac and Kiara are discussing a mess that murdering grace will make not poop on the sheets you're in charge of clean up okay i can't tell if she's falling asleep it feels like it her feet are on my side i wish you'd make the first move for once remember you'll move up the ranks plus you get perks in the black market since this is your first your first what i said what the hell happened tell me what happened for real Can we stop making up lies about these messages? What the hell happened last night? She was messaging me on planning on how to kill her.

And... Who was messaging you planning on how to kill whom? Kiara. Kiara was messaging you on planning how to kill... Grace? Yes. And what were you doing? I was only sending a message back only in correspondence.

I just wanted to sleep. Are you sure? Because this sounds like you're... planning something with Kiara. Is that what's happening? Don't lie to me. What's happening here? I can see the messages. I'm not dumb. This isn't the first time I've done this. What is happening? She was planning on killing Grace. I just didn't want a part of it. It doesn't seem like trying to talk her out of it. And when it comes to the stuff, as I'm talking, telling you, she

I was only sending message back in agreeance as I turned my back towards this isn't agreeance remember you'll move up in ranks plus you get perks in the black market since this is your first

this sounds like you're encouraging her the messages are here dude I know I know right after that I was trying to fall asleep because I didn't want to be a part of anything we're going to keep going through these messages. Tell me since now. Did you help Chiara do this? No. No. But you knew it was going to happen.

I knew it was going to happen. You knew it was going to happen since last night. I knew it was going to happen since last night, but I just didn't want it to happen because it's a friend of mine. When did this plan start? Because this was planned. She planned it out. Grace planned it out? No now Grace. Kiara planned it out. Kiara planned it out. When? How long had this been a plan for her? She had planned it out since 2020. Kiara planned to kill Grace since 2020. Yes. And you knew about it since 2020. Yes. And I had been to going to counseling because of the, because of this. Okay. The messages only get worse for Isaac. And so do his answers about them as he appears to give Kiara advice on how to stab Grace. Then why are you saying you'll make it up the ranks,

plus your perks in the black market since this is your first? Because you're talking about killing her, you're right? I was... What else could this mean? Remember, you'll move up in the ranks, plus you get perks in the black market, since this is your first? What else would you be talking about here? I was trying to talk about something else, because I'm trying to get my mind off. Isaac, really?

You're trying to talk about something else there? Yes. And I'm not... How do I aim? How do I aim right? Just aim. Tell me what you're talking about there. that's call the duty that's call it duty tell me when okay I'll give a count six five I can't

yet dude four I'm shaking dude I know I lose the nervous help me drive it through help me drive it through what do you mean help me drive it through she was asking me to do to stab her yes and I didn't want to do any she was asking, help me drive what, the sword, the dagger, the butterfly knife, what? The dagger. Help me drive the dagger through Grace. Anger me. I invited Brittany.

Who the hell's Brittany? Brittany is another one of my friends. You invited Brittany over during all this? No. No? But you said I invited Brittany. I said that just so I could get the whole stop. Isaac then appears to be egging Kiera on, cheering her to kill Grace.

Remind me of everything she's done. This could have already if you had done the OG plan. What was the OG plan? The OG plan was something that she concocted. Okay, what was that? She concocted that she was going to kill Grace. Okay. And she wanted to do it alone. Okay. That was the OG plan.

She hurt you and had sold you into sex trade. Had you not flown out after the crash, you would have gone away with making you disappear. Keep going. She is still lying about a lot, and she's not willing to admit that. She is the biggest piece of shit. Keep going. She makes you feel horrible for your skin color and your beliefs. I'm going to pretend to sleep, so it looks non-conspicuous.

Tell me about all that. At that moment, I had plugged in my home for the night. And my phone, this phone right here, would have been on the opposite side of the bed. Charging. And what? She says, grab a knife now. You're helping me end this. You say, then end it.

She says, I'm done waiting and playing nice. Help me now. Show me the ropes. What is she talking about? Show me the ropes. She was asking her to help her do what she wanted to do to grace and I didn't want a part of it. Well, what you say here is I am saying just swing and don't regret the aim. So tell me, tell me what that means.

Just swing and don't regret the aim. It was me telling her if she was going to do something, she should do it and I didn't want to be a part of it. a part of it. I have my, I had all my... What is holding you back? Type it. You're edging her to do this. Come on, Isaac. Isaac. Look at all these messages, man. You're going to sit here and tell me, you're going to look me in the eye and you're going to tell me that you were trying to talk her out of this. I can see right here you're telling her to do it. What the hell happened last night, man? Why did you want her to do this? I didn't want her to do this.

Why are you pushing her to do this? I was trying to, as the messages are going through, she kept coming back and forth to talk to me, and the messages were going through, and I was just like I had enough of them done. The text messages clearly sound like Isaac is telling Kiara to kill Grace. Good night. I know it hurts. I just want you to do it so you can fill the rush of adrenaline. What do you want her to do so she can fill the rush of adrenaline?

To go to sleep. You want her to go to sleep? She feels the rush of adrenaline. Yes. Okay. Because I wasn't having it anymore. Okay. She says, I physically can't.

I need fucking help. But no, you're just playing games. I'm genuinely upset. You say, I'm not playing games. I am wanting to see you do this. She hurt you the most caused trauma. You're being asked to finish this. You want to see her do what?

I told right after she had sent that, She came over to take off the covers off my head and asked me, what do you, what do you want me to do? And I was like, go to sleep. Hours later, the same detective interviews Kiara. Any idea why you're here today? I believe it's because somebody was found out in my room. Where's your room at? In the garage.

The garage? I was trying to make sure this wasn't a freaking dream. I feel so weird. Um, you believe someone has found dead in your room? Do you have any idea who that might be? Well, sorry, I'm really tired, but... Last night, Isaac invited my ex-girlfriend, Grace Jennings, who now is going by Yomko. I don't know anymore.

She's gone through so many name changes, it's confusing me. I always knew her as Grace, or Rose. or rose. I was really upset, so I just went on a walk and spent most of the night in the house. This morning. I was trying to sleep. If you were walking memories from me again. God damn it. Sorry. Who are you talking to? Um...

My best guess is that I have DID, but I'm not 100% certain. What's the DID? Dissociative identity disorder. I haven't had it actually diagnosed, but that's my best guess for my research. There are different personalities that come out. Do you have names for them? Some of them, yeah. What are their names?

There's Abby, and then there's, we call her chinks, because she hates people saying her real name. She said. Yeah. She say her real name. She's mad. I see. Then there's one personality that I haven't seen in a long time.

Like, I haven't communicated with her. That's what the... My name was Jess. Jessica, but you always called her Jess. Kiyara then talks about how part of her loves Grace, but also wants her dead. The reason why I never wanted to see Grace, but I pissed me off by bringing her to my house. She did something really stupid, and I wanted to see her change, and I wanted to see something happening where she would admit it, but she's just... Is she a lover dead?

Grace? Yeah. You don't know? I'm not sure. What do you think? Well, I'm partially hopeful for her to be dead, but I'm also like confused. Like, I'm like... Why would you hope that she's dead? I'm still angry at her, but I also won't have hope that she'd be better, but it's like this frustrating emotion that I can't seem to pinpoint.

Well, tell me why you're angry at her. When... I need to keep my shit together because I get very... Get very upset. Yeah. Back in 2016, there was a video floating around of a 14-year-old girl getting art. And another girl standing there collecting money from them. There were 16 or 17 guys involved.

What? They were all getting money. The girl getting money was grace. The other one was me. I'm starting. It sounds like a difficult memory. I was so a virgin, so I never got to. Yeah.

Yeah. That's hard. Thank you for sharing that. Kiarra then discusses her relationship with Isaac. She says it's complicated. But he's your ex, but he has him to get in that garage. Yeah. Trying to stay friends and it's like still acting.

like we're together and I felt bad because I made him homeless for like two weeks. I gotta stop feeling bad for people. Do you guys stop sex with each other? Yeah. Yeah. That must get confusing. That's your ex, but you are still being intimate. Yeah.

He wants to fix everything and it's just gotten so complicated. relationship problems. Yeah. Everyone has those. Who else lives there? It's just me, Isaac, and my mom. Kiara offers details about her other personalities and how she has thought about murdering Grace.

You said something interesting earlier. You said, you asked about grace. You asked if she was okay. And you said that part of you would be okay if she was dead, right? Yeah. It's honest I like honest people

I don't want to lie Yeah Have you ever thought about hurting her Or killing her? I had a couple dreams like that You had a couple dreams like that Yeah How'd those dreams go

Um They were mostly right after I broke up and then There were triggers and stuff Did you kill her in those dreams or what happened in those rooms? Sometimes I would kill her, sometimes I would torture her, sometimes it was just me screaming at her.

How would you torture her in your dreams? Basically reenacting what she did to me to herself. Oh, okay. So you're the one kind of taking the money and she's the one? Yeah. I see. But maybe it worse. I see.

And how would you kill her? Um... In your dreams? Depended on the dream. So there are several dreams. Yes. I've had, like, a bunch of murder dreams, if you could call that. About a lot of different people. Not this, Grace?

Yeah. Grace is like the number one I'm pissed at you. And then I'm just like my ex. Kiara goes on to tell the detective that Isaac runs an underground society. It sounds a lot like a group that exacts vigilante justice. Well, it's called ghost. They're like an underground version of cops in a way, but a little more intense and deadly. And they get rid of people who are in words, in charge of sex trafficking, in charge of anything that has to deal with, hurting kids. I see.

And, like, I kept trying to tell me, just do it, and you're going to, just kill her. Then you'll get ranked up. OSTAT! An underground society of people that, kind of, their own version of cops and justice, they kind of kill bad people. And so, and this is kind of me trying to piece together. like what you're saying, like, the messages I saw, too, was Isaac trying to push you to kill Grace? Yeah.

I had my dagger in my hand, and I kept going, and then just stopped. Like, I felt a little hand hold me back. Like, it was Kiara telling me, you don't, don't, no, don't. Because that was also her best friend's sister growing up. Yeah. And

God, they got so busy. That must be sucked. Do you think you killed Grace? I'm not sure. She is dead. That's the dead person we found in the garage. Give any memory out? I'm gonna be sick at that.

Just like, what the... Yeah. Do you remember what police arrived on see? I just remember my heart going like crazy. Okay. I don't know. It's like I'm not used to cops just showing up at my house. They told me you ran inside.

How can you ran inside? Um... I'm pretty certain that I was going to grab something that I forgot. You saw cops and then you ran and decided to get something you forgot? Well, I thought I heard something but I didn't know it was from my house. When was the last time you saw Grace alive? Um, at some point this morning. Do you remember what time at all?

I'm not sure exactly what time was. You think it's possibly you killed her? I'm guessing myself right now, like second guessing, trying to figure out. If it was one of them, someone I haven't met yet. Is there any way to ask them? They're very picky on when they talk about it. Oh, I see. It was like, come on.

It took just and Abby, like, three, almost four years to tell me what the happened. From the, the, what it's right, yeah. Kiarra then appears to question the things that Isaac has told her. I'm trying to figure out if he's been lying to me. Yeah. Talking about the black market and ghost and Bitcoin. the end of the world in 24 days.

Has Isaac ever killed anyone? Well, he said he did, but I don't know if it's true. Who do you say he killed? I don't know who, but there was a number he said, but I don't know if it's true or if it was stupid teenagers who were always saying, oh I killed this baby, or I killed this many people. I'm so cool. Grace did that a lot.

There was a number, he said, like a number of people he killed. Yeah. How many? 40. 40 people. Supposedly. It's a big claim. Yeah.

It's half of it. It's all over. Probably partially in Roswell. He wasn't a gang. Where is that he no longer was in Roswell? It's confusing. What game was in him? I don't know what the name of it.

It's like, something with Roswell's name in it. Along with questioning. what Isaac has told her. Kiara also begins to question her own memory. Okay. Anything else you can think of regarding what happened? Anything else you can remember? Trying to figure out if there's one vision was from an actual dream I was having because I was falling asleep or if it was a memory. What was the vision? I'm not sure. I looked like an ear on my wall.

A what? An ear on my wall. It was really confusing. There was an ear on your wall? Yeah. I think that was part of the dream, though. Like a human ear? Yeah. It's like, what the...

What did it look like? It looked like one of graces, but it had my dagger in the deck's not that sharp. Yeah. Like, what the . I'm very confused. No. Well, it's still not an investigation regarding statements from everyone. I think you're, you've been very honest with me.

I don't have any... I respect the hell out of that. I'd like to return that to you. There's probably a good potential that both you and Isaac go to jail tonight. You understand that? Yeah. I've never been to jail. I've never done anything.

Now going to jail for murder. Yeah. That was a leap. From innocent to murder. Yeah. That is so dark. No criminal history to murder. Yeah.

That's a huge leap. I didn't do drugs growing up, except for it. Grace, I hate her for it. Sorry. I have some scars on you. That you can see from... Well, you suspect you have, you know, D.ID, multiple personality disorder, you know, so...

I'm guessing. I'm not 100% certain. Do you remember threatening eyes at last night at all? I told him I was mad at him. Did you threaten him with a dagger or anything like that? Do you recall anything like that? I remember stabbing my bed. You're stabbing your bed? I didn't even go through the blanket.

How come? It's dope. But how come you stop the bed? Because I was mad and I wanted to stab something, but I didn't want to hurt someone. Why were you bad? Because I had to confided somebody I hate to my house. And it wasn't just for a talk, as he said. Or repeat this morning, I'm sorry, turned from an hour to overnight to two nights.

And I was like, hell no, she's saying another fucking night. So why did Isaac want grace there? I have the clue what he wanted. But there was to fuck her, which gross. Say gross. I've seen the kind of people she's been with. Did he f*** up? I don't think so.

Kiara and Isaac were charged with first-degree murder in Grace Jennings' death. Kiarra McCulley pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in February of this year and has agreed to testify against Isaac Apodaca in exchange for a 30-year sentence. Isaac Apodaka's trial is scheduled for November. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.

Thank you.