Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 'It's Evidence': Two Idaho Murder Victims Families Hope to Stop Demolition of House

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Two families whose loved ones were murdered in a house near the University of Idaho are stunned the school is moving forward with plans to demolish the house before the trial of Bryan Kohberger. Plans to raze the house have been halted once before but now a demolition is scheduled for December 28. The Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy spoke with attorney Shanon Gray who says the families of Kaylee Goncalves and Xana Kernodle are hoping public outcry will lead the school to postpone the demolition.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Is this good for the prosecution? Is this good for the case? The family of Kaylee Gonsalves, one of the four University of Idaho students, murdered in a house near campus more than a year ago, hoping beyond hope that the demolition of the house where Kaylee and her friends were murdered will be stopped. The University of Idaho says the house is coming down next week. I'm Anjanette Levy. It's Monday, and this is Crime Fix, law and crime's look at the top stories in the world of crime.

The demolition of the house on King Road will begin on December 28th, three days after Christmas. The University of Idaho now owns that house where Maddie Mogan, Kelly Gonsalves, Zanna Carnodle, and Ethan Chapin were murdered on November 13th, 2022. The school has been clear since the beginning that it planned to demolish the house. But that hasn't been sitting well with at least two of the victim's families. When they're like, that house is gone, it is going to be very emotional for me. But that wasn't why, the emotional side of things, it was strictly like, is this going to be, is this good for the prosecution? Is this good for the case? Neither the prosecution nor Brian Koberger's defense team have objected to the house being demolished. In fact, both sides

signed off on the house being turned over to the school earlier this year. Koberger is being held in the Latah County Jail, accused of the murders of those four students. He has maintained his innocence up until this point. The defense and the prosecution have been back to the house recently to take measurements for exhibits to be used at trial, so the jury will not be taken to the house because obviously the plan is to take it down. In a statement last week, the school's president said, It is the grim reminder of the heinous act that took place there. While we appreciate the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue.

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Shannon, thanks for coming on. I know that we had spoken before in the summer about how the family objected to the house being demolished before trial. That is now happening despite the prosecution and the defense saying, yeah, we don't want the house anymore. We don't need it. But you guys still object to the house being knocked down before trial. Yeah, I mean, it's I think we were under the understanding initially that they would just keep it. You know, they stopped the demolition for some reason in the spring or I guess it was in July.

And we thought, well, if they found a good enough reason to stop it then, then why wouldn't they keep that reason and go all the way to trial? But, you know, we got an email the other day from the University of Idaho, really kind of just took us back how quickly, you know, we got an email on the 14th and they had demos scheduled for the 28th. So it's pretty shocking that they would send us such short notice, probably because they know that we're going to try to fight them on it. So. You said you're going to try to fight them on it. How are you going to try to do that? Well, you know, part of the, the issue with this is that, you know, last time we just kind of

voiced our opinion, you know, sometimes the public can help out. And when we put out a statement where we're saying, you know, why not just leave it? What's wrong with just leaving it? And I think everyone in America understands that. Like, why not just leave the house where it is? If you don't need it, great, right? Then, you know, the trial goes and you demo it after the trial. But what if, which has been the case in the last couple of months, people needed to get back in there. Right. And it would have been demolished. So these two opportunities that the defense and the prosecution have had the opportunity to do, if they had followed through with their plan, the University of Idaho, the House would already be demoed by then. So what would they have done then, right? Did you all ask the ask yet again?

Did you ask the university yet again to halt their plan? I mean, obviously, they've got a company hired to do this. They've sent out a map with where the media should be parking if they want to observe this. They want to get it done before the kids come back from winter break, they say, because, you know, it'll be less disruptive that way. So have you said to them, hey, you know, you know, we're opposed to this? Oh, yeah. I mean, they've known we're opposed to it. And I sent them another email. You know, they sent the email to us telling us about it. And I sent them a response email, a pretty harsh one. You know, I thought it was a little premeditated and I thought that, you know, the short notice was premeditated and,

you know, why would you do it around Christmas, right? The 28th. I mean, especially for the families. And I think the statement kind of says itself that going, Gonzales' family statement, where it talks about it's, you know, the house has evidentiary value, at least the family, we believe it does. And then, you know, there's an emotional attachment to the house. And so, you know, a lot of those things should be taken into consideration and the family feels like it's not. So the Cronodal family, I've spoken with Jeff and he feels the same as way as the González family. The Chapin family, obviously, I don't have any contact with them. So Jeff Cronodal, Zanna's father, thinks it should stay until after the trial.

Yes. Okay. So you don't really, the last time we spoke about this too, you said there really aren't any legal avenues that you can explore to halt this. It would be more of a public outcry type thing. Well, I mean, ultimately, you know, I think there could be some civil remedies that could be pursued. But what you'd be doing is fighting the University of Idaho. You know, people don't understand that these families are victims, families, and they don't have unlimited resources to pursue a legal battle against a giant like the University of Idaho that has legal counsel on staff all the time. Right. So, you know, a lot of people are limited by resources and what they're able to afford and what they're able to do.

I mean, that's that's in the world in itself. People are limited by resources, you know. So I think that, you know, there could be some civil remedies out there, but I don't think the families have the resources to pursue those at this time. You know, this thing has slowed down and things seem to have come to a halt a bit since Brian Koberger waived his right to a speedy trial. I mean, I think a speedy trial was very unrealistic given the magnitude of this case, the amount of evidence to go through, the fact that it's a death penalty case. Do you have a feeling for when it may actually go to trial? Do you think it will be later in 2024 or could we be looking beyond that? Well, you know, the families have, we've been in contact with, you know, Latah County Prosecutor's Office trying to figure out what the opinion is on a timeframe on getting

a trial date. And, you know, the judge, their understanding, the judge has to make some decisions on some evidence and things like that before a trial date is scheduled. I don't think anybody knows when the judge is going to make those decisions. So I think it's frustrating for the family. It's absolutely frustrating for the family to not have a trial date. And then the University of Idaho go ahead and moving forward on this and giving us two weeks notice that they're going to demo a home that they've known we've fought them on for the last year. And so, you know, it's, it, uh, it's frustrating. And, uh, um, you know, if you are, if you have any say, you know, and you want to let the university of Idaho know how you feel,

I would contact them and let them know, you know, it's people's voices matter and people's voices should matter, right? The victim's family's voices should matter. And it doesn't seem like they are. They're heard at all. You know, so you're a defense attorney. And so you understand, you know, a defendant's right to a fair trial, of course. This case is unique in that it for some reason, it's resonated so much with people on social media and there's been so much crazy stuff that has taken place with this case with the speculation and things like that. It just seems like everything in this case is filed under seal, nearly everything.

How do you feel about that, given the fact that you're somebody who practices, you know, you're a lawyer. How do you feel about all of this? You know, everything's filed under seal, filed under seal, an order. Oh, we're going to seal that order. We're going to seal this hearing. Well, remember, I have a non-dissemination order, so I can't really even tell you how I feel. I mean, you know, it's like, I can't. And, um, you know, I, as a former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney for, you know, I've been in the criminal

world for 20 some years. And, uh, um, it's frustrating for the families because I explained to them how I think the process should run, um, and how things should be done in my 20 years of practicing. And so they have those expectations. And so, you know, it's, it, it's up to the court to decide and make those things. It's up to the, you know, the prosecution and the defense to make the decisions as far as, you know, presenting the case and defending the case. And one day, you know, one day maybe I'll be able to really tell everybody how I feel and what this process has been like going through it with the families and the families, the struggles that have gone on throughout. But it's not today.

And I just have to, I kind of just have to bite my tongue. So it sounds like the family, the Gonsalveses at least, you speak for them, there's still a level of frustration there. I think there's a high level of frustration. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, we don't know what's going on. Right. We have there's motions that are filed. There are, you know, hearings that are set. I go through all the hearings. I go through all the motions with the family, talk about those evidence, alibi information, all of those things that have been an issue in topics in the past over the last six months, speedy trial issues, all of those things, and how I think and how, in my experience, the criminal justice system has worked. And so since everything's under seal, we don't get any information.

We don't have any information on the case. We don't get any additional facts. We don't get anything at all. And 99% of the time, if I want something or the family wants something, I have to reach out to the district attorney's office or the prosecutor's office. It's not them contacting us. Every once in a while they do to give us a heads up on something that might be coming out in the media and give it. But other than that, if I need anything at all, it's me being proactive and the family being proactive to contact them to get information. And I think that's frustrating for them.

I think they felt like there would be a much more open line of communication with the Latah County Prosecutor's Office than there really is. So they don't have a victim witness coordinator who reaches out on behalf of the... We do. What's there to tell us? I mean, every once in a while, we, you know, we'll get contact about a hearing or things like that, but I can read the hearing it's filed underneath the public notices. There's no additional information that we're getting

in any way, in any sense, other than maybe, you know, like this, you know, we'll get an email, maybe the morning of, maybe a day before that they're going to go back into the house. And for, you know, don't freak out. So, you know, that's, that's the kind of information we get, you know, and, oh, there was a hearing, you know, if there were hearings, this is when the hearings are. Well, I know because they're filed under the public notices and they're filed in the court case and we can look those up. We don't get anything additional. So. Interesting. Well, Shannon, is there anything else you'd like to add? I think it's just important for everyone to understand that the family feels it's, it's very important for the demolition of that house to stop. And if you have any power, you can reach out and, and,

you know, um, let the university of Idaho know what you think about it. Um, I think that could be beneficial for the family, you know, and, um, it's just, it's, it's commonsensical, I think that could be beneficial for the family, you know, and, um, it's just, it's, it's commonsensical, I think to most of us, um, if you were to take a poll that that house should stay there. Um, I think it's, uh, it's one of those things where, you know, it's, it's a crime scene. It's a, it's a very large piece of evidence. Um, just the mere fact that it's, it's there and the location of the rooms,

entry points, exit points, you know, vantage points of witnesses that are in the case. And, and, and it's hard to recreate those things. It's hard to,

to, you know, after the fact, when it's gone, here's a copy of the house. I don't know how that makes much sense, right? And it's really the victim's families that are most important here. Right now, there are no indications the university plans to stop the demolition of the house on King Road. A company has been hired to take the house down, and we'll have that covered for you when it happens next week. That's it for Crime Fix on this Monday, December 18th, 2023. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Until then, have a good night.