Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - New Search in Gilgo Beach Serial Murders

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. A lot of police presence and helicopters and dogs and state troopers. A new search by police in Manorville, an area of Long Island where body parts related to the Gilgo Beach murders had been found in the past. Mystery surrounds why police are scouring the area and whether it could be connected to the investigation into Rex Horman, who's been connected to the Gilgo Four. Thanks for joining me for Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. There was some really big news on Long Island when police started searching a wooded area in Manorville.

Starting point is 00:00:45 If Manorville sounds familiar, it's because it's the area where remains belonging to Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack were found. Some of their remains, of course, were also found on Ocean Parkway on Gilgo Beach. Now, no one has ever been charged in their murders. Several New York media outlets quoting sources say this search is related to the Gilgo Beach murder investigation. Rex Horman, an architect from Massapequa Park in Long Island, is charged with the murders of the Gilgo Four. They, of course, are Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello, four sex workers who were found wrapped in camouflage burlap. Horman has denied the charges. Here's his lawyer, Michael Brown.

Starting point is 00:01:27 You're talking about a gentleman who has never been arrested before. He's a productive member of society. He's going to work every day. He's supporting his family and he's incarcerated and he's claiming he didn't do this. So obviously it's troubling and he's dealing with it on a day by day basis, one day at a time. But he is looking forward to having his day in a court. So back to what's going on in Manorville. Police spent two days searching the area. And as you can see from this video from News 12 Long Island, it was a busy, busy search.

Starting point is 00:01:57 The Suffolk County District Attorney's Office will only say the Suffolk County Police Department, the New York Police Department and the New York State Police are working with the district attorney's office on an ongoing investigation. We do not comment on investigative steps while they are underway. We will make further statements when appropriate. The search was a surprise to people who have followed the case closely for years, including Joe Giacalone, a retired NYPD cold case sergeant and host of True Crime with the Sarge on YouTube. Yeah, like many people, I was surprised to hear about this when I sort of come over the newswire. But when you take a look at that area, this specifically involves not only Gilgo, but there's also another person that they arrested, a man named John Bittroff years ago,

Starting point is 00:02:39 who lived not too far from where this happened. But you had two victims, Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack, whose torsos were found in Manorville many years ago. And then the rest of their remains were found in Gilgo when that search was going on. So there's a tie-in to Gilgo somewhere along the line between Manorville and Gilgo Beach. The question comes down to is who was responsible? And I think that this is quite unusual

Starting point is 00:03:03 because just to be narrowing in on a specific area, I think they must've gotten a tip that they felt that was really valuable and they went all out on this so far. So what does that say to you? I mean, we have the Gilgo Four who were wrapped in burlap. They were not dismembered, but then we have other victims who were and their body parts were found on the same stretch as the Gilgo Four, but then also body parts in Manorville. It's just so gruesome. So is this the same person with different MOs, in your opinion? What are your thoughts? Yes. And from the very beginning, I was a one person serial killer on this whose MO had changed over time. So for instance, he had to dismember the

Starting point is 00:03:45 earlier victims because he picked these young women up off the street and someone might have seen them get into his car or truck or what have you, and that he would be afraid that they would be able to identify him. Then as technology changed and burner phones and internet, like with the back page and the Craigslist, there was no need for him to dismember people because it was done totally anonymous or he thought so at the time. And there was no need to be able to go beyond what he had to do to discard the body. So I think it's been the same person all along. And the issue that comes down to is that the police have a real tough time ahead of themselves because we haven't really heard if there was any DNA found with any of these other cases. And if you remember, Anjanette,

Starting point is 00:04:24 there was a big feud between then Police Commissioner Richard Dormer and Thomas Spoda, the district attorney, about how many killers there were. So you think it's one killer. So does that mean you think it's Rex Horman? Yeah, I believe it's one killer from the very beginning. Listen, cops don't believe in coincidences. And I think you ask almost every cop out there, they'll say, everything ends up in Gilgo Beach. That's ground zero for everything or everybody. And whoever was responsible for all these cases, that was his area, so to speak. So if he passed by it or drove by it, that's what would give him the thrill. And that's why he probably took pieces from other victims and left them there.

Starting point is 00:05:00 Because remember, you also have Peaches that was in Hempstead. You have Karen Vergara. You have a lot of different cases that were kind of scattered throughout Long Island and still ends up remains in Gilgo for them. It's almost like, you know, someone called it a trophy garden. That's basically what you're looking at. Now, as you saw in News 12 Long Island's video, dogs were scouring that area in Manorville. So how successful could that search be if it is related to the Gilgo Beach investigation? Believe it or not, the cadaver dogs can go back as sometimes as much as 20 years. And they actually requested the NYPD to bring in extra dogs too, because the area was so big. So there's apparently

Starting point is 00:05:36 a lot of different dogs. The state police were there. NYPD was there, Suffolk County. I'm sure the FBI was there too. I didn't see any of the jackets, but I can almost assure you that they were there also, probably Parks Department. Anybody on that task force, any agency on that task force, it was there today. And they're probably still there now going through all of those areas. Josh Zeman is a documentarian who has covered the Gilgo case very closely. Josh, your reaction to this surprise search in Manorville? Yeah, they have an awful lot of resources out there. Police helicopters, news helicopters, canine units, multiple canine units, different search parties from numerous different law

Starting point is 00:06:20 enforcement departments. So it's quite a big search out there. We had heard reports that a neighbor had found a body, but we haven't seen the medical examiner, we haven't seen anthropologists or the crime scene unit out there. So that leads us to believe that they haven't quite found anything yet, but the amount of law enforcement out there

Starting point is 00:06:43 is definitely surprising. The big question, and nobody will answer it, but a lot of outlets in New York City are quoting sources who say that this is indeed related to the Gilgo Beach investigation. And there are many sets of remains out there on Gilgo Beach where no one has been charged in those homicides. We know Rex Horman, of course, has been charged with the Gilgo Four. That's a specific set of victims who were found along Gilgo Beach. But the big question is, do they believe this is related to Rex Horman? Or do they believe that there's more than one suspect who's been dumping bodies along

Starting point is 00:07:23 Gilgo Beach. I mean, that's the question that we asked on our show many years ago. You know, how can it be? You have two sets of remains, Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, found in 2000 and 2003 in Manorville. And then you have the same body parts found in Gilgo Beach next to what is known as the Gilgo Beach 4, which Rex Uerman has been charged with. So are those remains the same perpetrator? Did Rex do those crimes as well? Or are we dealing with a second serial killer? I know it sounds strange, but there's been numerous serial killers acting

Starting point is 00:08:05 in Long Island at the same time. Robert Shulman and Joel Rifkin were both operating at the same time. What leads us to believe that it may be two different serial killers is the fact that the MOs are very different. The Gilgo Beach were found whole and intact, and these women were tragically dismembered. So that's one question. The other question is why dump some body parts in one part of Long Island and some body parts in another part of Long Island? And that's the key question here. And Joe Giacalone, who we heard from earlier in the show, says that he thinks it's the same, it's one killer who changed MOs, but these are two very different MOs. I mean, I don't want to sound gruesome, but dismembering a

Starting point is 00:08:51 body is, it takes a lot of work. But that's just the way it is. If you've ever covered a dismemberment case, this is how they describe it in court. I mean, it is not easy to get rid of a body. The Gilgo Four, that is a very specific MO. These women are tied up. They are bound or wrapped in camouflage burlap. Very distinctive. These are sets of remains in different spots, dismemberments. So that's the big question here. Do you change MOs if you are indeed a serial killer? Do you try one thing and think, oh, that's not working example, tragically had a tattoo. Basically, someone had tried to almost scratch it out off her body. That's so you prevent identification. So, you know, did the killer basically decide, well, I haven't been caught, so I don't need to go through all these different countermeasures in an effort to conceal the identity of the body. They haven't caught me so I can just therefore not take so

Starting point is 00:10:09 much time with these other victims. That is entirely true, especially for somebody who's been operating on Long Island for so long. I mean we're talking about Valerie Mack who was found in 2000 and then 11 years later her other remains are found on Gilgo Beach. So that's definitely likely that the serial killer could have just changed his MO. But also, why is somebody dumping body parts in one place versus another of the same victim? That's another. Is it forensic countermeasures or something else going on here? So it's a real big question. Are we dealing with one serial killer or two? It is a big question and one we hope to have answered. But as you mentioned, I mean, they've got the NYPD out there assisting with this.

Starting point is 00:10:55 Suffolk County needed more resources. So they brought in the NYPD to assist them. You know, right here, any of the DA out there, if let's say there are two killers. He's got a mess on his hands. I mean, let's say that there are indeed two serial killers. I don't know how they're going to, with the remains found in different areas. I don't know if they've got any DNA. I don't know why they're out there again. They must think there's another body out there or other evidence. They've got the dogs out. So that to me says they think there are other remains in Manorville. I would agree with you. The fact that there's so many resources must mean that it's something fairly credible. And look, we were in that area.

Starting point is 00:11:40 We went through that area with Timothy Bolger, the editor of the Long Island Press, a number of years ago, looking at it. It's a spot where people dump bodies. Numerous bodies have been found there over the years. It's also an area used by hunters. You know, it's a likely place to dump a body. Then there's the other issue that comes into play, which is there was another individual in Manorville named Bittroff, who has also been charged and convicted of killing two women. And he lived very close by. So it is a real mess out there. And if it is two serial killers, that really puts the Rex Ehrman case in jeopardy. Talk to me a little bit about Bittroff. Tell me more about him. Bittroff was convicted of killing two women, sex workers again,

Starting point is 00:12:32 a very different MO, but he happened to live very close to Manorville where Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor were found. He was convicted of those crimes. And people have always wondered whether or not he may be related in some fashion to the Go-Go Beach victims. Now, we know that Rex Herman's DNA was found on the Go-Go Beach 4. So everybody's just trying to figure out, is Bittroff connected in some way, shape, or form? Or is there just a lot of individuals going around tragically killing these women? And the other issue is we don't know some of the other victims who are found on Ocean Parkway. If we knew their names, maybe that could help us get more insight into this case and ultimately find out who's responsible for killing those individuals. It is an interesting question. And the MOs are so distinctively

Starting point is 00:13:26 different. But it doesn't mean they can't be connected. But certainly, there could be two killers. There could be one. I don't know. There could be three. But this has sparked a lot of interest. It's piqued my interest. I want to know what is going on. But really, the tragedy here, you know, these families of these women deserve answers. And they deserve to know what is going on, but really the tragedy here, you know, these families of these women deserve answers and they deserve to know what happened to their loved ones and who did it. And so they've been waiting a long time for these answers. And hopefully, Josh, I know you hope, as I do, that those answers will come soon. Absolutely. I'm glad to see that Suffolk County PD is taking these cases seriously and

Starting point is 00:14:06 putting a lot of effort into investigating, finding answers. And one interesting thing, I interviewed Richard Dormer, who is the police commissioner who has since passed away. I interviewed him for a long time, and we talked about the serial killer case. This was far earlier before they knew who Rex Ehrman was. And during the interview, I said, after the interview was over, I said, was there any question that I didn't ask that you would have wanted to comment on? And he said, you didn't ask me if there were any more bodies out there on Long Island. And I think there are. So I think that's the question. Are we going to find even more victims?

Starting point is 00:14:46 That is the question. And we'll see if we can get some more information about the search that's ongoing and whether or not they actually do find other remains. And it would take some time if these remains are older remains, obviously, to identify them through dental records, possibly other forensic anthropological measures that things, bones. So Josh Zeman, thank you so much. I know you'll be keeping an eye on it, as will I. Thanks for having me. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with

Starting point is 00:15:20 me. I'll see you back here next time.

Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - New Search in Gilgo Beach Serial Murders

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