Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Ohio 'House of Horrors' Grandpa: Insanity and Secrets!

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

Gary Siders Sr., 73, will return to a Vinton County courtroom this week as results of a mental competency evaluation will be discussed in his child endangering case. The hearing comes as Ohio's governor has announced a review of the Siders case to determine what went wrong in the system that allowed 16 children to be "hidden" for years. Meanwhile, Gary Sr.'s grandson, Josh Saunders, will return to court this week as a plans an insanity defense on rape charges involving a family member. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy goes through all of the new details in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest:Fanon Rucker https://www.facebook.com/fanon.ruckerCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Van DinhGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Who knew what? What did they do? Answers are coming about the mental state of one of the four-siders family members accused of severely neglecting 16 children in a so-called House of Horrors. Is Gary Sider, Sr. competent to stand trial? This, as the governor launches an investigation and another family member plans an insanity defense. I'm going through all of it. I'm Ann Janette Levy, and this is crime fix. There is a lot of news in the Sider's case, and I'm going to go through all of it for you. Some of it involves Gary Sider, Sr. and his grandson, Josh Saunders, a 23-year-old family member who was recently indicted for the rape of another family member. Gary Sr. will be in court this week, and we should learn whether he's competent to stand trial on 16 charges of child endangering involving his grandchildren. I'll get to that.

and Josh Saunders very shortly. But first, the big questions that everyone once answered, including Ohio's governor, who knew what and when and why wasn't more done. The 16 Siders children have been described by the Vinton County prosecutor as being hidden, but they were not invisible. People knew that these children found in the home on Omer Street on June 30th existed, although it appears no one in Vinton County knew they were there. But in Named. Abering Gallia County, children's services workers in the juvenile court and probate court judge Thomas Moulton knew about nine of the Siders children in 2020 and 2021. It was during that time that the Children's Services Agency opened two separate investigations into the children.

The first was prompted by an online school reporting that the children were not logging on and were essentially illiterate. Gary Jr. and Elizabeth Siders were notified that they could possibly lose custody of their children. A caseworker worked with them to complete two separate plans, which included taking to the children to the doctor and following up with educators. The online school recommended that the children go to a brick and mortar school. The Cider's children were never removed from their parents. Instead, Judge Moulton authorized the caseworker to have protective supervision of the children where she would go and visit the family and work with them on their case plan. Who knew what? What did they do? What did they not do? Whenever there's a tragedy like this, we have an after-action review, which we're in the process of doing to make sure we understand exactly what happened and who was at fault and who is responsible.

Now, I'm telling you, Governor Mike DeWine seemed flabbergasted that children could be hidden in a home for years in 2026. Yes, this is 2026. This is not the 1980s or 1990. when a paper file might get lost on someone's desk. Meanwhile, 23-year-old Josh Saunders, the grandson of Gary Sr. and the oldest son of his daughter, Virginia Saunders, faces three counts of rape and one count of gross sexual imposition. Now Saunders' new lawyer has filed documents indicating that his client will plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Attorney Scott Petrov just notified the court that he is representing Saunders, who was a part of the first investigation that led deputies and state agents to Geary Siders Jr. and Elizabeth Siders. In another development, Josh Sonder's grandmother, Christina Siders, is getting a hearing later this month on whether she will be released on bail. She faces

19 felony and misdemeanor counts of child endangering related to her grandchildren. But her lawyer says she should be released on bond. Right now, that amount is 300,000. thousand dollars and she doesn't have the money to post that and this week we will find out information about her husband's mental competency as mental state gary cider senior is suffering from a serious medical condition and that prompted the prosecutor to agree to allow him to be released from jail senior is not considered a threat to the public but what is going on in his mind during his first court appearance he seemed a little out of it now his competency evaluation has been completed in those results will be discussed at a competency hearing. So I'd like to bring in Fanon Rucker. He is a

former judge, also a former prosecutor. He's done just about everything. He's based in Ohio. Fanon, thank you so much for coming back on. Thank you so much for having me. Let's start with the competency hearing for Gary Sider Sr. That competency hearing is going to be held on Wednesday. And at that hearing, we're going to hear some testimony, I believe, from an evaluator about whether or not Gary Seider senior is competent to stand trial in the evaluator's opinion. So to walk me through how that's going to unfold. Sure. So when we talk about competency, there are two different evaluation areas. First, as we just saw in a really nationally televised trial, it's the not guilty by reason of insanity evaluation. And that is a question of at the time that the

alleged crime occurs whether the person understood what was going on. But what we're talking about here and what we deal with really almost on a daily basis in the courts is the question of whether or not a person right now is competent to stand trial. Now, every person who appears in front of the court is presumed competent to stand trial. Unless there's a suggestion either by the attorney representing that person or by the prosecutor that maybe this person doesn't, quote, understand and appreciate the nature of the proceedings that they're involved in. And that is an evaluation that can change from day to day. Somebody can be competent today and then decompensate and tomorrow not really understand what's going on.

So from whatever reason, for whatever reason, whoever raised this question, I would suspect it was the defense attorney. Their suggestion is that senior doesn't understand nor appreciate what. what's happening. And so now the court is obligated by law to have a hearing to make that determination. So will the evaluator be called to testify? I would assume so. That's right. Most likely. Now, there's different ways to do this. So before today or before the hearing tomorrow, there will have been interviews, presumably, of Gary Sr. by these licensed professionals whose job it is to make these types of assessments and evaluations, licensed psychologists and psychiatrists. The court has someone's staff. The defense attorney,

of course, and this is where, you know, the question of how much justice can you afford, the defense can hire a private evaluator, not from the state, to counter or to offer their own assessment of the condition of the defendant. if there are disagreements as to those reports, meaning, look, either party can say, we stipulate to the reports, it says what it says, we agree with what it agrees with,

and therefore the hearing is very short. But if one side submits a report and the other side challenges any aspect of it, then it's hearsay, and that person has to come in court and justify their position under oath and under pretty, you know, scathing questioning by the side that opposes

the conclusion that they've reached about that person's competency. No, there was no question that Gary Sr. When he was in court the first time and when he was booked into the jail, just by looking at him, everybody kind of thought, you know, that, you know, something seems a little off here. I mean, he's in a wheelchair first off. That means really nothing other than he needs that to be physically assisted to get around. but he just seemed kind of out of it. Like he didn't really get what was going on.

So can you kind of not understand what's going on yet still be deemed competent after you've received some medical treatment for a serious medical condition and things of that nature? Can you be kind of helped along after you've gotten this treatment and then where you do kind of more or less understand, oh yeah, I'm in a courtroom and I'm being charged with a crime? Sure. People, and so the judge has to make an evaluation of whether or not the person presently understands and appreciates what's happening. Now, if under law, the judge says, well, based on what I'm saying and based on these reports and I'm going to believe the, I'm going to believe the report that says that he is not in a position to understand. So the court then has the option of deciding that, well, I think they can be restored. So for up to four months on a felony charge, they can send them to, a treatment facility where they receive mental health treatment to try to restore them to competency. So, yes, a person can certainly be restored after some treatment, after some time where they're advised of what's going on. That certainly can't happen. And it's up to the court to determine in the

hearing based on what they receive whether or not, in fact, that can be done with a reasonable period of time. So Phonan, what if it's not a mental health condition per se, like something that you would see in the DSM for, like a psychosis or, you know, something like that? What if it's something like, okay, this person had a stroke or this person has dementia or it's something to that effect where it's a degenerative type thing and maybe with treatment and medication, you know, you're suffering. from an illness where it can't be treated because it's going to get worse. It's not a mental health condition per se, you know, something like bipolar disorder or something like that. So what do you do then? Because these charges, you know, they go from 2022 through 2026, but we're talking about can this guy understand what's going on and assist his defense right now? So what do you do in that in that circumstance where maybe somebody is suffering from some sort of illness like dementia.

Yeah, so that's a tough question. And we certainly have seen instances where criminal charges will go away because the person is not competent and incapable of restoration within a reasonable period of time. And so, you know, that charge ultimately gets dismissed and either, and this is, This is where we get into issues of the financial capability of our mental health systems. We talk about the change in our systems from the past 20, 40, 50, 100 years, where we would just lock folks up if we determined that they weren't competent. Now they're being turned loose because we don't have the resources necessarily to hold them.

So the question is, how long do you incarcerate or keep somebody locked into a mental health facility if they were the there because they were charged with a crime and are incapable of being restored, but they still need that assistance, guidance, monitoring, and they're not a safety to society because of it. Potentially, they could stay in a mental health facility for the rest of their lives. And we don't know whether he's suffering from dementia that's been rumored, but it's just something that came to mind. I'm thinking to myself, if you don't have a mental health issue per se, such as a mental illness, like bipolar disorder or something like that. But if you are suffering from some type of

degenerative condition like a Parkinson's or a, you know, Alzheimer's dementia, something like that. I want to pivot now to this state investigation. Governor DeWine says that there is a after-action review going on to determine who knew what and when, who did what or who didn't do enough essentially when it came to these children. We now know that children's services in Galea County had contact with the Sider's family. There were two cases opened in 2020 and 2021 regarding this family and these children, at least nine of them back then. And, you know, the cases made their way through the system. The children were not taken away. That's what these courts try to do. They try to keep the families together. But this was an extreme situation where these kids could like

barely read. Some of them couldn't talk even back then years ago. And then poof, the family vanishes. So it seems the governor really wants some answers here. And I mean, let's face facts. This happened on his watch. Yeah. Yeah. You know, tragic and catastrophic circumstances often lead to systemic reviews. This is not the first time that we've had, you know, some, some, some eye opening or shocking consequences involving children in our systems and it prompts the government

which I think it probably should to say wait a minute what are we doing wrong here what can we do better who didn't do what they're supposed to do because the system is not supposed to work like this so I think that Governor DeWine's announcement that there's a system review to see who knew what when and where there may have been

failings is absolutely reasonable it's expected and it's part of the process when a tip of the iceberg is revealed in things like this. There were government agencies involved. And if there were government agencies involved, then the government agency definitely didn't do something that it was created to do. If we ended up finding out that on their watch, these children were living in these conditions and there were victims being created. Because that's exactly what that job, job and family services department and those, and those, uh, workers are supposed to be looking for. So what happened? Was there

policies in place that they didn't follow? Or were there policies in place that need to be updated because we've had a society that has changed and it's just necessary right now to review how we're doing and make sure their best practices? It doesn't necessarily mean that there's

a criminal investigation or that there would be criminal charges levied against some social worker who was responsible for reviewing these records. But it does mean that there will be a very critical review of how things work in that division, in that department, and how can we prevent the possibility of this happening again? It's part of what happens when we see things like this. Yeah, and it also seems like Fanon, you know, after Gallia County

had these cases open, and they seem to be, you know, they rushed them through the system pretty quickly, it seemed like to me from my review of the records. And we know that they like to keep the families together, but this was a crazy circumstance where neither a parent was working. The kids are like, some of them can't even talk. Some of them can barely read, if read at all, it was insane. But then they take off and they go to Vinton County, they go to Wisconsin, and it seems like there needs to maybe be more of an effort to track them down. Maybe these counties need to start talking to each other. There needs to be more of an effort to find people, when things happen.

Well, what we certainly know is that over the past 20, 30, 40 years, there has been a smaller universe because of technology and a greater amount of connectivity between all of us. You know, we're coming up on the anniversary of one of the most devastating incidences on our soil. That was 9-11. What did the 9-11 investigation reveal? That you had all these different agencies

that were charged with responsibility of enforcing and protecting our borders, but they weren't communicating with them. each other. Well, technology allows us now to do that. And so there's a greater awareness of the need for these different systems, cameras, agencies to better communicate with each other. And particularly as here, the need is more apparent because you had a group that was being watched and they left. Well, there should have been a way to connect them to where they went so that the nationwide or statewide databases connecting across borders would have already flagged them when they came to their jurisdiction. Perhaps that was in place and wasn't followed, or perhaps policy didn't allow that at the time or resources weren't available in order for that to happen. But the investigation will out all of those things and hopefully put protections in place to prevent another situation like this. Yeah, no doubt. Let's move on now to Josh Saunders. He is the grandson of Gary Senior

and Christina Siders, the nephew of Gary Jr., accused of rape and gross sexual imposition. He's going to be in court as well this week, and he is now pleading not guilty by reason of insanity. He's accused of raping a family member. I mean, this case, just when you think it couldn't get worse, it does. So what do you think? I mean, because not guilty by reason of insanity, I mean, his attorney filed this paperwork. At the same time that he filed a notice of appearance and a demand for discovery, that's an affirmative defense. He's essentially saying he's so mentally ill that he couldn't appreciate what he was doing was wrong. The wrongfulness of his actions.

He's admitting, yeah, he did it. It's an affirmative defense. That's right. That's exactly what that means. As you say, affirmative defenses are things that the defense has to prove by a proponents of the evidence. But what they're doing is waiting in muddy waters because it is an admission of the offense. It's an admission of the murder. It's the mission of the rape.

It's the admission of the child abuse. It's an admission of the heinous crime that they're accused of committing, but they're saying, but, but, but, but I did it not realizing what I was doing, and I should not be held responsible. That, that is a defense that is obviously difficult and it's dangerous. It is dangerous because, again, you have to acknowledge that you committed the crime. But if the defense attorney knows that the evidence is overwhelmed, If they are aware that there are confessions or there are videos and folks, I mean, if there's enough evidence, you have to find a way to defend your client.

And perhaps there's enough of a peak of the suggestion that this person has some competency issues, then that's an appropriate defense to waive. And as I said earlier, there are two different points where a person's competency is challenged. The first is that trial to understand what's going on at the time. But the other one is a factual determination. Again, we just saw it in a very highly publicized national trial that at the time of the event itself, that that person didn't understand what was going on. It's tough. It's expensive. It's time-consuming.

But it is a legitimate defense recognized by the law if it can be proved. Yeah, it's an interesting thing to do. I mean, maybe he's just preserving the right to use that defense. He's also asking that Josh Saunders, the attorney is asking that Josh Saunders, be evaluated. Christina Siders, she's also making a play to get out of jail on bond. Her husband, because of a serious medical condition, has been out of jail, you know, on a signature bond. He's on a GPS monitoring. They do not believe he's a threat. So do you think grandma ends up getting a bond with GPS monitoring or does the prosecutor fight to keep her in jail? Because he's already objected to her being released. But her attorney is saying, no, you know, you need to let her go. You need to let her out on a signature bond. Yeah, I it's hard to say what evidence the investigators have unearthed regarding her, um, uh, aggressive leadership. of these crimes. If her role is a passive one, then certainly the participation itself

is bad, but if she's just a participant, then the bond would be an appropriate strategy for her to be out while the case is pending. But if it turns out that there's evidence that she actually encouraged it or that she was

kind of the ringleader and nobody really knew that until the investigation revealed it, then for the safety of others, for the safety of herself, and to keep her from absconding from the territory, then no bond would be appropriate for the judge to assess. Well, we will see what happens much to come this month in the Cider's case. Phan Rucker, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Gary Ciders, Jr. remains in the Southeast Ohio Regional Jail on a $550,000 bond. He has pleaded not guilty to all of the sex crimes and child endangering counts that he faces. His wife Elizabeth Siders has not been arraigned on the new sex crimes charges she faces or the child endangering charges. She remains in jail, too, as does Christina Siders. Brandon Henderson, the longtime boyfriend of Christina and Gary Sr.'s daughter has also

pleaded not guilty to the sex crimes charges he faces and he is being held in jail. And I do want to let you know that the 16 Siders children who were removed from the home on Omer Street, They remain in therapeutic foster care, although we don't have an update on how they are doing. Of course, they face challenges. We know that from the condition they were found in when they were discovered and from the Gallia County documents from 2020 and 2021. We can only hope that they are getting the help that they need. Go ahead and check out the case file at law and crimeplus.com. You can read all of the documents about the Ciders case there.

And that's it for this episode of Crime Fiction. I'm Annette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.