Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Police Chief Who Led Bryan Kohberger Case Has Message For Killer
Episode Date: July 25, 2025James Fry was the chief of the Moscow Police Department in November 2022 when four University of Idaho students were murdered in a home near campus. Fry had investigated homicides before but ...nothing like this. He immediately knew his department needed help as the case thrust the small town into the international spotlight. The competence of the department was questioned. Then, more than six weeks later, Bryan Kohberger was arrested in Pennsylvania. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy talks with Fry about the case and Kohberger's sentencing and what he would say to him in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:If your child, under 21, has been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or fatty liver disease, visit https://forthepeople.com/food to start a claim now!Host:Angenette Levy https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest:Chief James FryProducer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad free right
now.
Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify.
We just had to keep working at it until we figured everything out.
Chief James Fry led the Moscow Police Department when four University of Idaho students were
murdered.
I talked to Fry about the case, his message to Brian Koberger and new information we're
learning about the investigation. I'm Anj Coburger, and new information we're learning about the
investigation. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and this is Crime Fix.
Before I get into my discussion with Chief Fry, I want to tell you about something. Law and crime
is looking to create something new for our viewers, something that you'll love and enjoy. We want to make sure that what we create is based on your
opinion and your voice. So we've created a short survey to get your feedback and we'll
be selecting 10 people at random who took the survey to get a free Law and Crime t-shirt.
So if you want your voice to be heard, please check out the survey and let us know your
thoughts. The link is in the description and pinned in the comments. Now back to my chat with Chief Frye.
I just got back from Boise, Idaho, where Brian Coburger is now serving four consecutive life
sentences for the murders of Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Curnodle, and Ethan
Chapin. Coburger was booked into the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna right after the sentencing.
That sentencing hearing was incredibly emotional with family members of Maddie, Kaylee, and Zanna pouring out their hearts,
telling Judge Hipler about their loss and the beautiful children and siblings that were stolen from them by Brian Coburger.
Coburger, as you saw, just sat there. I could see Brian Coburger very clearly. Now, while I was in Boise, I met up with James Fry.
He was the chief of the Moscow Police Department
when Maddie, Kaylee, Xana, and Ethan were murdered.
We talked for a little bit about getting the call that day
about the murders, having a horrific case like this
thrown into his lap, how it tore a wound into the soul
of his beautiful little college town, and more.
I'm also going to go through some of the evidence and other new information that we're learning
from the investigative reports Moscow police have released.
There are hundreds of documents and they reveal new details about the investigation and the
things that Brian Koberger did after the murders.
But first, a little bit about Chief Fry in my talk with him.
He's been a police officer for nearly 30 years.
On November 13th, 2022, he got a call
from one of his officers in Moscow that changed everything.
There was a homicide at 1122 King Road.
Four University of Idaho college students were dead.
The crime scene was horrific.
There was a lot of blood.
Two women were in a third floor bedroom
and they were in a bed together.
They were Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Moggan.
Kaylee's face was so badly damaged she was unrecognizable and Maddie Moguen had also been
stabbed. On the second floor, Zana Curnodle was laying on her back on the floor of her bedroom
and she'd been stabbed 50 times and had many, many defensive wounds to her hands and arms.
Zana fought for her life trying to save herself and there was also a lot of blood there. In Zana fought for her life trying to save herself. And there was also a lot of blood there. In Zana's bed was her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin.
He'd also been stabbed, slashed in an artery,
and there was a lot of blood in that bed.
Ethan had been killed in his sleep.
Less than 24 hours earlier,
the four had posed for this beautiful photo
with two roommates who had survived,
Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk.
Dylan and Bethany are now forever scarred
by what happened in the house on King Road,
and Dylan actually saw the killer
walking through the house that morning.
This is a law and crime legal alert.
Did you know that children are being diagnosed
with serious conditions like type two diabetes
and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease?
And research is potentially linking ultra processed foods
to these outcomes.
Morgan and Morgan is stepping in to fight to hold food companies accountable.
With decades of experience fighting large corporations, they are ready to stand up for
families that deserve justice.
So if your child under the age of 21 has been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or fatty liver
disease, visit www.forthepeople.com slash food or scan the QR code on your screen
to learn more.
I'm going to get to some of the new information that we're learning from the investigative
reports.
But first, I want to get to Chief Fry.
I asked him about getting the call about the homicides on King Road.
I think it's interesting because Moscow is an interesting town. We've had some bigger incidences, you know,
2007 we had an officer shot and killed and
so we've had some stuff but nothing like this but we've had
we've had to have our community heal before from tragic events
that have taken place
and and Moscow is a very strong strong community
but it still tears tears a wound that takes a long time to heal it, if it ever does heal.
So being the chief during that time, I've been there my whole career, I went to the university, so I had a lot of pride in the community and the university.
But we don't ever want anything like this to happen in our community. So I think it does add added stress.
We're a small, small town.
We're not in New York.
We're not in Chicago.
Not that that makes it any less there, but I think it's sometimes more shocking when
it happens in a small rural town.
Chief Fry knew right away that his small police department needed help. This was not
something that they could handle alone. Idaho State Police were called to process the scene
and Fry contacted the FBI to assist with the investigation. Fry had been a detective earlier
in his career, but he hadn't worked anything like this. But he knew they had some decent clues.
Number one, the K-Bar knife sheaf left next to Maddie Mogin's body, and video of a white car circling the neighborhood
and speeding away at 4.20 AM.
I'd worked several homicides.
So I knew what went into them.
I knew what it took.
And I knew that we had a good foundation and a good start.
So we just had to keep working at it
until we figured everything out.
Frye was actually out of town when
he got the call about the murders, but rushed back to Moscow to oversee the investigation.
Number one, I didn't go into the house. And the reason is every time you go into a crime scene, you could contaminate it.
And as the chief, that wasn't my role at that time. But I've seen pictures of, took place there. It was horrific.
It is horrific.
It's devastating to communities,
devastating to states,
devastating to a nation, honestly, and a world.
I mean, this case expanded many, many miles away
from Moscow, Idaho that it affected.
The case took on a life of its own
and word of the mystery in Moscow spread like wildfire
across social media.
News media from around the world
descended on this small college town of Moscow, Idaho,
population 25,435.
Days and weeks were passing and the killer was on the loose.
College students fled the town, finishing classes remotely,
but Chief Fry knew they had the DNA on the knife sheath and the the town, finishing classes remotely. But Chief Fry
knew they had the DNA on the knife sheath and the FBI was using genetic genealogy to identify the
suspect. But he kept that a secret. But you know, that part was stressful, just the
just the amount of stuff we had coming in at times, you know, information and stuff we were
trying to do. But but also, you know, the social media, it was stressful
and the national media was stressful
because you want to be able to tell the story,
but you also have to protect that.
And there was a lot of pressure coming from that too.
But, you know, we've always done it that way.
We've always held as tight as we could to information
so that we could make a solid case.
And I think this is another example of that.
Chief Fry took a lot of heat for how he handled the media,
eventually allowing Idaho State Police
to assist with that task.
Chief Fry didn't hold a press conference until November 16th.
That was three days after the murders.
And he was heavily criticized for creating a vacuum
that allowed rumors to spread.
It's something that Fry says he's learned from.
Number one, I would have came out with a press conference way earlier. That was a failure of
mine. We were busy. We were doing a lot of stuff, but I probably really should have came out probably
within four to six hours and at least give a brief statement as to what was kind of going on. But
we wouldn't have given a lot of information there, but maybe it would have set the community of the
ease a little bit more, but we still didn't know who did it.
So is there really any ease at that point for that?
But I definitely would have done that differently.
When I was in Moscow in December of 2022,
it was really frustrating because it appeared
that there was little information coming out
and it felt like police didn't have any leads.
I asked Chief Frye whether he was ever concerned
that they may never solve this case.
There's always a little bit, right?
But I am a very positive person.
I always have been.
And I was going to just keep the faith
that we were going to keep working,
and it wasn't going to go cold.
Cases go cold because you just stop working them.
And we weren't going to stop working it.
On December 19, 2022, more than a month after the murders, the FBI contacted Moscow police.
They'd finished their genetic genealogy work on the DNA found on the knife sheath. The FBI told
the police to look at a man named Brian Koberger. Last week, I interviewed Washington State University
Police Chief Gary Jenkins, who had been the chief at the Pullman Police Department. Jenkins told me
about being contacted by Chief Fry, who wanted him to come by for a briefing the next day.
Jenkins said the hair on the back of his neck stood up. When he realized the suspect, Brian
Koberger, was someone he had interviewed for an internship position at the Pullman Police Department
in the spring of 2022. I asked Chief Fry about learning about that and the fact that Brian
Koberger was studying criminal justice
and criminology.
You know, when we found out he was a criminal justice major,
and all that, it kind of stings us a little bit, you know, that
that's that's our profession. That's what we do. That's but,
you know, when, when he wanted to do that, I, you know, I don't
know what his motives were for that. No one will ever know his motives for why he wanted to be an intern, why, you know, when, when he wanted to do that, you know, I don't know what his motives were for that. No one will ever know his
motives for why he wanted to be an intern, why, you know, all
that stuff. But it is interesting that he was studying
us in a sense.
So all of the pieces started to come together after that. And on
December 29 2022, police prepared to move in on
Coburger at his parents home in Pennsylvania. The element of surprise would be key.
So was Chief Fry worried about
word of an arrest leaking out?
I was and you're always worried
about stuff like that,
and now you're in another state.
You're in a different jurisdiction,
but I tell you,
I'm very proud of our agency and the
individuals that worked at least on our
side because it never did leak out.
Brian Coburger was booked into a jail in Pennsylvania and then flown to Moscow and booked into the
Laetaw County jail.
Coburger spent more than a year in the jail, one inmate recounting how Coburger would stay
up all night and nap during the day.
He spent hours on video calls with his mother.
The inmate described Coburger as the smartest person he'd met while incarcerated, but he
had odd habits.
He washed his hands incessantly and showered for almost an hour each day.
And one time, he said Coburger became angry when the inmate said,
you suck while watching sports.
Coburger aggressively, he said, stuck his face through the bars and asked if the inmate was talking about him or his mom.
But Coburger never said anything, the inmate said, about the murders.
Eventually, Coburger was moved to Ada County in Boise
after winning a change of venue motion.
And then just weeks before jury selection
was set to begin, Coburger asked to change his plea.
Did Chief Fry think that that was surprising?
Well, I don't know that I have insight,
but I think that's a common thing.
You know, they're gonna push it out as far as they can to see
if anything will stick.
And that's why we have to, when we were so quiet
at the beginning and we held stuff,
that's part why you do that.
You hold stuff so that you get everything lined up
by the time that they're ready to go to trial.
And I don't know what his full reasoning on that
is, but I think he wanted to have the last shot that he could give. And after everything narrowed
out on him, I think he was like, okay, you know, this is going to really happen. And I don't want
the death penalty. Chief Fry was in the courtroom as Brian Coburger was sentenced to those four consecutive life sentences.
But we don't know, and what we may never know is why.
I share the desire expressed by others to understand the why, but upon reflection, it seems to me, and this is just my own opinion, that by continuing to focus on
why, we continue to give Mr. Koberger relevance. We give him agency and we give
him power. The need to know what is inherently not understandable makes us
dependent upon the defendant to provide us with a reason, and that gives him the
spotlight, the attention, and the
power he appears to crave.
The more we try to extract a reason, the more power and control we give to him.
In my view, the time has now come to end Mr. Kohlberger's 15 minutes of fame.
It's time that he be consigned to the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration.
I know there has been concern about him collaborating on books or movies or other media projects
and I truly hope that someone does not stoop to affording him this spotlight that he desires
in the name of cliques, royalties, or profits. While criminal behaviorists should study him away from the spotlight in an attempt to prevent
other would-be killers from acting on their worst impulses, there should be no need for
that to spill over into the public eye.
The great Idaho jurist, Edward Lodge, was known for trying to find something positive about every person he ever sentenced
And with over a half a century as a trial judge, that was a lot of people
This was often challenging and I recall in one case
He said that the best he could come up with was the defendant had good penmanship
Truth be told I'm unable to come up with anything redeeming about Mr.
Koberger because his grotesque acts of evil have buried and hidden anything that might
have been good or intrinsically human about him. His actions have made him the worst of
the worst. Even in pleading guilty, he is giving nothing hinting of remorse or redemption,
nothing suggesting even a recognition or understanding, let alone regret for the pain that he has caused.
And therefore, I will not attempt to speak about him further, other than to simply sentence him,
so that he is forever removed from civilized society. I think there's a lot of closure today,
a lot of closure for community, university, and families.
And I understand there's still some families
that are upset, but it's still a closure.
And just to know that Brian Koberger
will never harm anybody else again.
I asked Chief Frye what he would say to Brian Koberger if
he had the chance. I guess I would say shame on you for taking away four lives,
destroying families, destroying communities, destroying a lot of things
and for why we're not sure. But you know what really comes down to I think
the judge and Bill Thompson were correct is you know we don comes down to it, I think the judge and Bill Thompson were correct is
You know We don't need to give him that time of fame
We need to give our victims and our families time to heal and give them the support that they need and I always say
This and it's true, you know, our patrol officers did a great job that day
They locked down the scene and then we we did it, you know, everybody was after so we didn't do it right.
But we brought in the state police brought in Bill Thompson
brought in the FBI. We did it right. And I am very proud to
have been a part of that unfortunate situation. Not one
fight, not one argument for seven weeks. We were on a
mission and we had goals and we knew what we wanted to
accomplish and we did.
Bringing in the FBI and Idaho State Police was really key to solving this case. Without either
agency's assistance, Moscow police would have had a very difficult time identifying Coburger on their
own. The Idaho State Police crime lab tested the knife sheath, identifying the single source male
DNA, and then contacted Authram labs to start working on the genetic genealogy
to ID the suspect.
Then the FBI took over that process,
ultimately identifying Brian Koberger as a suspect.
FBI experts also identified the white car
leaving the scene as a white Hyundai Elantra,
despite not having crystal clear images of the car.
And they used cell phone technology
to analyze Koberger's cell phone pings,
which placed him within a football field
of the King Road house on 23 occasions late at night
in the months leading up to the murders.
I asked Chief Fry whether he thinks
they would have ever been able to make an arrest
if they hadn't had that DNA on the snap of the knife sheath
and then used genetic genealogy
to identify Brian Coburger as the suspect.
We did have other things.
We had the vehicle, we had the video and stuff.
As Detective Payne talked about today,
I think we would have identified that eventually,
but it would have taken probably longer.
And every crime scene, there's something left
and it's our job to go find it.
And they did.
And the investigators did a great job.
Even after Koberger's arrest,
the FBI did some more investigation,
even testing soil samples from a shovel
found in Koberger's car.
Did he use that to bury the K-bar knife
and clothes he wore that night?
An FBI report summary stated,
"'The soil on the shovel is consistent
with soil found in the Moscow area
based off of the experts' analysis.
The report also stated the soil was likely not from anywhere east of Moscow.
This finding also excluded Pennsylvania as a likely source for the soil.
The report stated the soil from the shovel displayed characteristics of soil carried to the area via a water source,
though this could have been recent or any point in the area's geologic history.
During conversation with the analyst, he stated the exact area the sample came from would likely
not be attainable due to the prominence of the mineral compounds from the sample that are found
throughout the Moscow area. So that is a question that remains, where is the knife and the clothes
Brian Koberger wore to carry out the murders? Only he knows the answer and as part of the plea agreement,
the prosecutor didn't feel it necessary
to make it a condition that he disclosed that information.
And we still don't know why Brian Coburger did this.
But you know, what really comes down to it,
I think the judge and Bill Thompson were correct is,
you know, we don't need to give him that time of fame.
We need to give our victims and our families time to heal
and give them the support that they need.
And I always say this, and it's true, you know,
our patrol officers did a great job that day.
They locked down the scene and then we did it.
You know, everybody was after, so we didn't do it right.
But we brought in the state police,
brought in Bill Thompson, brought in the FBI.
We did it right.
And I am very proud to have been a part of that
unfortunate situation.
I asked Bill Thompson at a press conference
why he didn't make it a condition of Coburger's plea
that he revealed details of the crime
and the location of the murder weapon.
Judge Hipler addressed that today very well.
Of course, Judge Hippler addresses everything very well, we've found.
The law does not give the court or us the power to require specific factual allocution.
And just let me finish.
And we recognize that.
We recognize that we could have said, well,
in order for us to move forward, we want a factual allocution.
But I have to be perfectly candid.
I don't believe that there is anything
that would come out of his mouth that would be the truth.
I don't believe that there's anything that would come out
of his mouth that would be anything other than self-serving.
And I don't believe there's anything that would come out of his mouth, it would be anything other than self-serving. And I don't believe there's anything
that would come out of his mouth
that would not further victimize the families.
And so that just simply wasn't a factor.
We made our decision based on our assessment
of law and the facts.
We made our decision based on being able
to obtain accountability and certainty,
not just for the victims
families but for the communities for the state and that's where our
obligations go. In the end and the old Harry Truman thing the buck stops on my
desk well that's what I got when I was elected prosecutor 33 years ago. I never
dreamed it would involve something like this but we don't sure our
responsibilities just because it got big and nasty.
The new records also show that five days after the murders,
Brian Koberger created a TikTok account
and he did that through a VPN.
That means that law enforcement
would have a very difficult time
seeing what Brian Koberger was looking at
since he did it through a virtual private network.
And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix.
I'm Anjana Levy.
Thanks so much for being with me.
I'll see you back here next time.